| THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016). |
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however, what does it say to you about George W. Bush when this happens, meanwhile Bush is still saying that war is his last option and he hadn't made a decision yet? Doesn't this go to show, yet again, the decision was made long long ago? And if the administration knew that all these soldiers and such would not fight, that the military did not want to fight for Saddam's regime, doesn't this show that Iraq wasn't really a threat, that they could stop them whenever they wanted? NY Times WASHINGTON, Aug. 9 — The United States military, the Central Intelligence Agency and Iraqi exiles began a broad covert effort inside Iraq at least three months before the war to forge alliances with Iraqi military leaders and persuade commanders not to fight, say people involved in the effort. Even after the war began, the Bush administration received word that top officials of the Iraqi government, most prominently the defense minister, Gen. Sultan Hashem Ahmed al-Tai, might be willing to cooperate to bring the war to a quick end and to ensure a postwar peace, current and former American officials say. General Hashem's ministry was never bombed by the United States during the war, and the Pentagon's decision not to knock Iraqi broadcasting off the air permitted him to appear on television with what some Iraqi exiles have called a veiled signal to troops that they should not fight the invading allies. But Washington's war planners elected not to try to keep him or other Iraqi leaders around after the war to help them keep the peace, a decision some now see as a missed opportunity. General Hashem's fate is not known. Some Iraqi exiles say he was shot, and perhaps killed, by Saddam Hussein's supporters during the war. Other exiles and American officials say he survived the war. Two Iraqi leaders said his family had staged a mock funeral to give the impression that he was dead. Much more than that is uncertain about the murky operation — not least, the degree of its success. People behind the effort, including Iraqis who were involved inside the country, said in interviews that they had succeeded in persuading hundreds of Iraqi officers to quit the war and to send their subordinates away. Iraqi military officers confirmed that after Americans and Iraqis made contact with them, they carried out acts of sabotage and helped disband their units as the war began. American officials and two Iraqi exiles who played central roles said the American military spirited out of the country several high-level Iraqi military and intelligence officers who had cooperated with the United States and its allies. But in interviews in Washington, Europe and the Middle East, more than half a dozen people with direct knowledge of the events said the United States might have missed an opportunity that might have stabilized Iraq as the government crumbled. American and Arab officials said that as the war approached, the Bush administration was skeptical of the idea of cutting a lasting deal with high-level Iraqi officials like General Hashem. Washington, in the end, was reluctant to leave any high-ranking officials from the Hussein government in power after the war. Such an agreement, they said, might have required that some officials with ties to Mr. Hussein stay in power for a time, but might have eased the entry of American troops into Baghdad and helped keep Iraq's infrastructure intact. "A lot of people in Baghdad saw their interest in not fighting, in adapting, in getting rid of Saddam and moving forward," said Whitley Bruner, a former C.I.A. station chief in Baghdad who is now a private consultant. He is said by people involved in the operation to have helped relay messages from people inside Iraq to the United States government. Senior Arab officials and several United States officials said General Hashem was identified as a potential ally as early as 1995, when he became defense minister. The officials described him as a capable, well-liked infantry officer who had no close connections to Mr. Hussein and his family. "From the time he was appointed defense minister, he was always someone who was looked at as being someone you could deal with," said a senior Saudi official, whose government had long urged the United States to promote a coup in Iraq rather than a military invasion as a way of toppling Mr. Hussein's government. "Sultan Hashem was seen as someone who was more sensible, who could reach rational conclusions, and was not a Baathist ideologue or Baathist fanatic." theres several more pages which I'll spare you... read here http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/10/international/worldspecial/10IRAQ.html?ex=1061784000&en=1feb0097aff4e625&ei=5004&partner=UNTD |
its easily written off as prudent planning. of course the decision was made well in advance. thats obvious. something different that should be interesting to watch develop. In this weekend's LA Times, there was an article about the influx of foreign terroritst fighters into Iraq. The lawlessness and lack of border patrols...hundreds of foreign fighters have come. Now, the bombing at the Jordanian embassy last week....its an unusual occurance since it didnt strike at US troops directly. There's suspicion that perhaps it was the work of foreign, al Qaida, terrorist fighters. That it was a message. Demonstrating the creativity in target selection. Jordan was silent partner in this war. They arent sure, but there's a reason the FBI got involved in the investigation. Moreover, with all these terrorists flowing into the largely uncontrolled & chaotic Iraq, blending with the local populus, isnt that creating the Iraq we sought to demolish? Further, now with so many Americans on the ground, civilian contractorsm and military alike, now they have shit loads of western targets right at their doorstep and in THEIR backyard...that is, a foreign land. They have language and customer on their side. Wasnt this warned of before the war? Didnt many experts cite the fact that this silly war would actually INCREASE the threat of terrorism, rather than erradicate it? Its too early to really tell if Iraq will become plagued with terrorism and thus an unstable mess of country for years. But then again, maybe thats the US's strategy. Give the terrorists big giant targets, and engage them slowly but surely. |
http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/wood080103.html |
I told you all we were deploying in December way back in October. As I remember, some of you argued that with me in March. |
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I said "troops will be home for turkey, but not for egg nog" or something along those lines, and you all argued it with me. |
you don't understand. you made that statement implying we'd be at war by christmas. when in fact all that occured was a huge deployement in November in December. your cryptic implied war. the actual deployment was what was up for debate. its how you said it. |
But all I said was we would be in Iraq by christmas, I never said specifically fighting. |