So Eri's got me thinking...I know a lot of us have posted about our tattoos/piercings/brands/etc, but I think it would be neat to see a tidy thread catalouging them. (Fat chance on the tidy part). I have: two piercings in my lower right lobe, one in the upper cartilage two piercings in my lower left lobe one piercing in my lip, on the right side three tattoos, all stars about thumbnail size, which although sounding cheesy are actually very beautiful when viewed as a whole--one on my right shoulder blade, on on my mid to lower back off the the left, and another right above my right hip. a scarified cross (upside down, of course), on my right leg three parallel lines branded at the centre of the bottom on my back, right over the coxyx (spell?) You?

3 holes on each ear lobe (used to be four but closed the 4th ones). Will try to see if I can get a pic of the tattoo as soon as I get it. It will be around my belly button.

coccyx I have four stainless steel earrings, two in each lobe. I have a tattoo on my upper left arm and one on my left lower back. I have a question - are there earrings that are durable that are made out of non-ferrous (no iron) metal? I want to learn to operate a piece of remote sensing equipment that we own, but you can't have any ferrous metals on you when you do.

Sem I seriously don't know about the metal in the earrings so I can't really help you there. If you gave me some examples of what those metals might be called or something I might look into it for you. Platypus, I am answering your other question here....I have a friend who wants to open up her own tattoo shop.....so I get a discount cuz I am a friend. She had said probably around $20 for it, but then once I showed her my sketch she said $5. So It's like this old looking sun that goes around my belly button and then in the upper right hand side (if you were looking at it) it will have a crescent moon going throught it. It's not going to be very big. Just big enought that you won't be able to miss it when I wear a bikini, or midriff shirt (most of the time). But once I get it done I will try to get some pics and post them on here.....

i refuse to have anything painted on me that cannot be washed off with soap and water, no holes that I was not born with, and nothing attached that cannot come off.

I was over 30 before I got my ears pierced,Amee has alot of tatoos,Ryan even more,he has his own tatoo kit and gives them to his friends,Heather has none.If your going to get a tatoo think about where you put them,the upside down flag on the back of his neck hasn't really helped Ryan in the employment department.

Titanium earrings. Not ferrous. . Nor are they cheap. Get little tiny ones.

Two tattoo's on my wrists, Kanji both of them. And I have two labre's on my lip, on either side of the soul patch.

labrets? Damn. When'd that happen? . . . . . Was it to impress a girl again? . How long has it been since I've seen your crazy hide?

titanium, cool. I will ask our magnetometer guru how titanium affects the machine.

how totally predictable of you spunk. who could have guessed. my three holes are nearly closed. I have thus far been able to decide on a tattoo so I've avoided it all together but I am open to the idea.

uh. holes in my EARS they were pierced...by me....

Okay, here goes... left ear- 4 holes. one large, from when i ripped my earring out of my ear at age 16. i eventually went to a plug, because i couldn't stand to see the droopy skin around it. there's amber in there. another stainless hoop, and one more stainless hoop in an orbital style, meaning it goes through two holes at once. right ear- one stainless hoop. chin- labret stud in the shape of a teeny tiny star. nose- tiny gold stud on one side. i used to have my septum pierced, but i think it closed up. bellybutton- small gold loop left arm- one cheesy tattoo from when i was 18, near my shoulder. right arm- one swirly tattoo around my lower arm, near the elbow, one large swirly tattoo covering most of my upper arm, shoulder, and part of my back. ran out of money, so that one will be bigger someday. it's not really very done looking. left leg- tattoo of clock on calf. i regret that one. right leg- tattoo of a heart with "cleo" in it, jazz beat style writing. all black. lower back- in the middle. a capital b. i regret that one too, and will soon be covering it up. that's all.

You haven't seen me in a while TBone, and I blame it on you. I have given you phone info, you have email contact info.... And you told me you'd call me to setup going to coffee or buy me that drink you owe me... So the ball is proverbialy in your freakin court dude.

If all goes well with this tattoo I am seriously considering having an aries symbol put on the small of my back. I dunno for sure yet, though. Still have to get the first one.

i have the dragonfly on my upper back. no current piercings.

This is more than I ever needed to know. Piercings and tattoos give me the creeps. But, I am needle phobic.

I just have my ears pierced. My brother wants me to design two tattoos for him....check this idea out. He wants two similar images on the backs of his arms -- one will be a silhouette of a tree and a landscape in a square border, and the other will take the same shape of the tree/landscape but will be made up of mechanical gears....sort of a nature vs. technology exhibit. I think they'll look pretty good.

That is an absolutely wicked idea! I hate tatoos. But, that vision is really wicked!!!

I got some bitchen dark moles on my back which if you squint just right, could be the constellation Orion.

When I flex my arm, the moles on my right bicep line up into a perfect pentagon, with one mole in the center.

One of my roommates calls soul patches "dork knobs" if they're on anyone but an aging black male. Me: Ears pierced once, no tattoos. I do have the bike chain on my wrist that I haven't removed for nearly a year and a half, I think that should count. Also a perma-bruise on my right hip from a flake of bone, that was unintentional.

platinum.

Oh hell, I forgot that my darling tattoo artist has been on here recently.......Little Bat Lady is doing the tat for me :)

I have three peircings in my left ear, and two in my right - the right ear has one up the top and one on the bottom. The earings in the left ear are a ball on a hoop (smallish), and two silver rings with silver stars, the others are sleepers. I did have an eyebrow peircing, but it started to grow out so now I have a scar. I'm going to get a dragon on the back of my neck soon as I can find one I like.

Titanium is the greatest.

Ok, so Little Bat Lady seems to have dissappeared on me. Didn't return the calls. We didn't get together to do the tattoo like planned. I am getting impatient. I know I shouldn't but it has taken me so long to come up with this sketch and this being what I want on my body permanently. I want it done. I want my tattoo. So I call around a little. I go to a couple of shops. First shop says that they will have to make it bigger, clean up the lines, etc. Talked sense. Said that they couldn't do it for less than $100. Basically would end up costing $100-125. It's a SMALL FUCKING tat. I mean small. It doesn't need to be that much bigger. just big enough to go around my belly button. Shouldn't be that big of a deal. So I talked to this one place that said that the prices start at $60. I go in. They recognize me and send me to talk to this one guy, who is sitting there playing with the equipment and is totally freaking me out. He said putting a tat around the navel is difficult, and he would have to charge at least $140. The thing is that I don't want any color on it either, just the black with a little grey shadowing. If you take a dollar bill and fold it in half, that is bigger than the tattoo. It shouldn't be this fucking expensive. I am getting upset now.

I don't know much about tattoo proces, but the quotes seem pretty reasonable to me. This is an artwork you're commissioning here, remember. You just happen to be the canvas. And art ain't cheap, at least for the good stuff.

who wants to guess where my pierce is? hah! no more secrets!

hypothalamus?

eri, some of the cost is just the "needle fee" they can't reuse some of the equipment, so a lot of parlours have a baseline fee that doesn't change (regardless of size/simplicity) i think the rest of the fee is based on the time it takes and number of colors used i have a tat on my ankle for which i payed 75 i regret not paying more for a better quality image i also have 80's ears 3 on the right 1 on the left and six more baout my body that i have allowed to heal how about everyone else? what tats or piercings have you removed/covered up/ allowed to heal over?

I am still going to look around some more. I live on the north side of town where things are more expensive anyways. If I go to the south side, it may be cheaper. Also it might be cheaper if I go somewhere recommended by a friend, you know, deals for repeat business kinda thing. We'll see. I am still going to look. I want it to turn out nice. It is after all, permanent. I have two earrings I let close, one in each ear. So now I have 3 on each ear lobe. Spunky has a business party on the 6th and it is a bbq with swimming. I will be controversial enough in a bikini, and the tat wouldn't go over well. I am trying to decide if I should get it done before then and forego the swimming, or if I should go swimming, and shock the conservatives with my bikini, and then get the tat.

if i was going to have someone draw permanently on my body, i would find the best artist that would do it and pay what it takes to get the best that's just me

i used to have two holes in each ear, but the higher ones caused great pain and suffering so i let them close after a month. So no more ear piercings for me, although i'd love an industrial. But no. I have a labret on my chin. I change it between a simple ball, a small spike, and a fuckin huge 2 inch spike. And a small barbell between my eyes. Nose bridge. It is amazing and beautiful, but if i could go back i wouldn't get it done again. Nothing but trouble! eg) I used to have a ring through it at first but there were too many incidents of it nearly getting ripped out. no tattoos, no money. eri-tattoo pricing as i know it is usually $50 per square inch of space to start, regardless of simplicity. It's also more expencive because you're brining in your own art, which is more difficult for them. The only way to get things cheaper is with a friend of a friend of a..... or getting Billy-Bob to do it in his dirty basement. If you really want it for cheap, see if any of your local studios have an apprentice that could do it. Apprentices need to practice on people before they can go out on their own, but it's all supervised by a real artist. They usually just charge for the ink, and use your tat for their porfolio. The tattoo apprentices i know charge $35 flat. sem- how about non-metal stuff entirely? like the plastic rings and barbells that raver kids get? acrylic retainers?

I miss my tongue ring. I had the shortest post available at the time but still managed to bite down on it and crack two of my teeth causing about $3000 worth of damage. I have two holes in each ear which are not closed, but not currently sporting any hoops.

i'm actually getting quite depressed about my nose bridge. It's always red at the ends, always angry at me. I should take it out but then i'll have a scar in such a bad place, and i'll miss it so. Whatever will i do? What will i get to take it's place? Nothing is prettier. there was never enough skin between my eybrows to do it right. It's not two perfect dots like it's supposed to be. You can see the bar at either end most of the time, and it's the smallest bar they make for this kind. hold me, kazoo. love hurts.

my tattoo was $120. i've had two piercings, the web between thumb and first finger on my left hand and the PA. Both have closed up. I want another tat. I don't know what or where, though.

Don't get cheap about tattoos. Find the best artist, and pay what they charge you. Cheap tattoos mean either: unsanitary conditions, bad tattoo artists, or friend of a friend, which would be okay. It will be on you forever. Wisper, I hate to break it to you, but the bridge of the nose is one of those areas that just wasn't meant to be pierced. Everyone I know that has gotten that piercing has had their body reject it. Same with the neck.

Hand piercing- eew.

i always wanted hand tattoos still not ready to go permanent yet might require an epiphany

"By heathre on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 08:26 pm: who wants to guess where my pierce is? hah! no more secrets! " A girl at the dollar store, who up to that point was a complete stranger to me, chose to tell me that she was getting her "pocket" pierced. Now, I did not ask her to elaborate, but I am assuming that pocket means lips? She already had her tounge pierced and was getting a larger stud....

I think a nose-bridge scar would be kind of cool, but that's just me--I like scars. I like labret piercings on other people. For me, the best part about getting pierced is how it feels when you have it done. Hand tattoos are hot. At some point I will be getting a tattoo on my back.

spunky you do have a way of making things icky CAN THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD PLEASE SPELL TONGUE OR JUST CHANGE THE SPELLING ALREADY? thank you. good night.

$350. siva nataraja on the right bicep. next stop - ganesha remover of all obstacles incarnation on left bicep. probably another $350. designer: denise de la cerda easily the best tattoo artist in the nyc metro area. jeather's right. you should search out the best and pay whatever it costs. going cheap will probably just end up making you sorry.

that was agatha, padre.

I don't wanna go cheap necessarily, but I don't want to pay too much for a small tattoo, and have the guy do a crappy job on it. I mean, I want quality work done. I got a lot of attitude from one of the guys, just plain scary. I don't care how much he charged, he wasn't touching my skin. I got a couple more recommendations from friends. One place is supposed to be really clean and by appointment only. And their prices seem reasonable. My friends husband got one done there on the back of his neck which is at least twice the size of mine and paid like $140 for it. So I have 3 more places to call or visit to see. I have a friend who wants a copy of the sketch so that he can go to the places around there and check them out and get price quotes for me, too. Damn Nate you got a good price on your tattoo! So this is a continuing process for me. I want the best job at the best price, and will take my time finding a place. When I am done, I will have Spunky take pics for those of you who want to see it (and those who won't be offended by my lower belly).

They both said it. Heather first. . And I agree. It's permenant. On you. Why is price an issue? Especially when it looks like the price isn't varying much more than $50 either direction? Get the best. Save up if you have to.

I just never dreamed that something this small would cost so much. I am going to make sure that I don't skimp on it. It's permanent. I just never thought it would be THAT expensive.

inspired by nate, about 3 months ago i made an appointment with the best tattoo artist in hawaii to finally, after 13-14 years, have the tattoo on my sternum finished. you usually have to book about 6 months in advance to get this guy, but he's a friend of my dad's. he did my dad's last 2 tattoos and touched up his first one. i am so excited! and i don't care how much it costs, it's going to be exquisite.

which reminds me of my favorite Ganesha story. first a little background: Ganesha is the elephant-headed son of Shiva and Parvati, and brother of Kartikay. Ganesha is a very sweet, gentle, indulgent, short and big-bellied creature, who rides around on a mouse or small rat. Tantric worship begins with the invocation of Ganesha. Kartikay on the other hand is lean and tall and rides on a very fast peacock, and is known as the logical scientist. so one day Ganesha and Kartikay are fighting over a sweet that they both want to eat. Shiva and Parvati cleverly decide to solve their quarrel and say to them, "The first of you to travel once around the world and return to us will get the sweet." Great! think Kartikay. he's smart and fast and rides around on a Peacock, so off he speeds to cirlce the world. Ganesha, thinking for a moment, walks in a complete circle around them, and then smiles up at them sweetly and says, "Shiva and Parvati, you ARE my world." :)

hwather, i can't imaging you have your cootch pierced. i just cant. it doesnt seem like a gheahter thang ya dig? so, i guess you'd have your ears pierced like all nice girls do. eri...tattoos are expensive. my brother, over xmas had a tattoo put on his arm on hollywood blvd. one of those run of the mill tattoo parlours. not great. not bad. did decent work. he got just an in-house designed "tribal" band around his bicep. in terms of size, its like a inch-wide, at most, design around his arm. Toom two hours. Black only. $250. They arent cheap. You dont want them cheap. Price shouldnt be dictating this as much as quality. Find what you want then worry about the money. Nate, I can't help but wonder if your hand piercing wasn't related to the PA in the sordid way only you could impliment. They say, that flesh, between your thumb and fore finger, is your wank 'muscle'

"I just never dreamed that something this small would cost so much." You ain't never tried to buy a diamond, have ye?

diamonds are retarded.

yes, with sarah I agree.

I'm just going to pretend I didn't see that.

J, that's basically what the Ass Doctor said too.

I'm just happy (and so is my girlfriend) that we'll soon have artificial diamond

<<Weingarten shifts uncomfortably in his chair and stares at the glittering gems on his dining room table. "Unless they can be detected," he says, "these stones will bankrupt the industry.">> EXCELLENT. The industry lives off blood, sweat, and lies.

patrick: the web piercing, which was gross, healed long before i got the PA. actually, the web piercing was a vodka-home-job which rejected to the tune of a ping pong ball sized swelling and was gone within a month. and ebeather doesn't wear earings.

just remember that it is precious gems and stones that support a LOT of countries that otherwise have no natural resource. Plus, I know a lot of people who would sneer at the idea of a "manufactured" gems.

Let 'em sneer. The free market should decide, no? If faced with the choice of paying $10,000 or $500 for the same product, what do you think the majority would choose?

Which countries are these, again?

"just remember that it is precious gems and stones that support a LOT of countries that otherwise have no natural resource." that doesn't justify the level of exploitation in the industry. "Plus, I know a lot of people who would sneer at the idea of a "manufactured" gems." Apparently, this does. (not aimed at you spunk)

Please don't think I am trying to defend De Beers mind you, I could care less about that. You're not just talking about the engagement ring on your fiance either. Some family fortunes that have been saved up for generations wiped out. Those gems in the safe will be worthless. I personally had a plan worked out to get enough fake currency (paper money) and invest it in a real asset, ie precious gems. A lot of people have done that. The good gold was confiscated by the US government back in the 30's. Precious stones and gems offered a stable alternative for barder and trade if the economy failed. A real, tangible assest that far exceeded any stock, bond or t-bill.

just remember that it is child labor and exploitation that support a LOT of countries that otherwise have no natural resource.

One day we can all be gems http://www.lifegem.com/

One day we can all be gems http://www.lifegem.com/

"A real, tangible assest that far exceeded any stock, bond or t-bill." But, that's just it. It isn't real. The value isn't tangible. It's probably one of the most imaginary investments possible, as it's value is almost completely manufactured by society and an artificial scarcity created by DeBeers.

IF the governments are corrupt and want you and me by the balls, then backing this up would help the larger countries like the US and UK, but destroy smaller ones. Gems, gold, silver, oil, etc are natural assests for countries. paper assests are known as fiat currancies.

holy crap. could you make that gem into an engagement ring for your next spouse-to-be? whole new worlds of tacky await us.

the rarity is what made it "real". The fact that it was produced by nature, under intense heat a pressure, the purity. That does indeed make it real. dirt is real, but not an asset. paper is backed by nothing but a promise. and if it rains, or if there is a fire, and that paper is ruined, you have lost your asset. diamonds and gold would still remain.

that's horrid. Would you really put your dead pet on your finger? or your dead grandmother on your fiance's?

Being fire and water proof makes the value real? That doesn't make any sense at all.

"But, that's just it. It isn't real. The value isn't tangible. It's probably one of the most imaginary investments possible, as it's value is almost completely manufactured by society and an artificial scarcity created by DeBeers." Wow, what a humanist statement. Man is indeed killing god. And how suprising a comment from you, antigone.

I didn't say that I would. There are some sick individuals out there. But what makes the stone that is made from your grandmother any different (barring physical differences if there are any) than one you would buy in the mall? If no one but you knew?

"Wow, what a humanist statement. Man is indeed killing god." What the fuck are you talking about? What does god have to do with anything in this conversation?

You lost your home. You lost your currency. You lost your stock. Time yellows paper. Fires eat paper. Water disolves paper. National economies bankrupt companies, making stock worthless (See MCI or K-Mart). Computer hard drives crash and loose data. You loose your bank accounts. Your country's gov has collapsed. The currency they printed is no longer worth a thing (see Russia, 1991 or Iraq, 2003 or Argentina, 2002). You are flat broke. Your most important investment remains. Real assests are those that stand all of these tests. That survive all natural and man made disasters. This is what countries used before the paper mill.

calling a manufactured gem more real then one dug from the earth by de beers. that is what I was talking about.

They are equally real. The reality of paper currency versus "hard" currency is a concoction of the human mind. Sure it's based on some quantifiable attributes, but those attributes are only assigned value by human beings. Me, I would pick a diamond made by machine over one from South Africa any day of the week. The value of diamonds is essentially measured in human misery, and so to me, they are worthless, excepting the case of heirlooms. Kazoo and I both agree there will be no diamond engagement rings (unless I can find a way to retrieve Timothy Leary from orbit and make him into a Lifegem (there are exceptions to everything)).

"calling a manufactured gem more real then one dug from the earth by de beers. that is what I was talking about." it is that kind of materialism that is killing god. what a moronic comparison. as for everything else you said, it still doesn't make any sense. the value of everything is dependent on market forces. Even gold goes up and down...nothing is stable in a market economy.

Understood, sem, but "value" like that is always in the eye of the beholder. unless you have a global society that is no longer consumed by personal and material possesions, then there will always have to be some sort of currency and trade system. Now, apples have a real value. They actually do something. But, they rot. And production of apples can be increased or decreased by weather or human activities (planing, fertilizing, harvesting, etc.) Gold and gems could not. They could be mined, and more available, reducing their value a bit, but not as unstable as fruit or bread or something like that.

i think the LifeGems idea is really interesting. I'm going to ask my mom if she'd want that done when she goes. diamonds are indeed retarded. fake diamonds, slightly less.

****************** "But, that's just it. It isn't real. The value isn't tangible. It's probably one of the most imaginary investments possible, as it's value is almost completely manufactured by society and an artificial scarcity created by DeBeers." Wow, what a humanist statement. Man is indeed killing god. ******************************** What the heck? I think Antigone is referring to the fact that diamonds are not rare in nature, but their sale is extremely limited by this one corporation, which inflates their price way beyond their "actual" value. This is why the turnaround value of a diamond is so low -- if you buy a diamond for $5000, you won't see anything close to that amount if you try to sell it back to the store. Read this: http://archive.salon.com/business/feature/2000/09/27/diamonds/ "Despite its elite status, the diamond, which can be found in abundance from southern Africa to Australia to northern Canada, is not the rarest of gems. With no intrinsic value, all a gem-quality diamond has to offer is the perception of its preciousness. As a symbol of eternal love, the tradition of the diamond engagement ring has become so pervasive that it's hard to believe that this is a fairly recent phenomenon. And an extremely calculated one -- the result of a marketing campaign developed at a time when the demand for diamonds had sunk to an all-time low and an increasing supply threatened the precious (as opposed to semiprecious) nature of the stones."

spunk what are you smoking?

"Even gold goes up and down...nothing is stable in a market economy." No, that is controlled by INFLATION. Inflation is created when there is too much paper currency and not enough tangible assets. Yes, and saying that something man made is more real then something nature made is humanist.

Thank you Spider...exactly what I mean. Market forces...everything else that drives value. If you have too many apples on your hands, or they are due to rot in a few weeks...come up with a creative aggressive marketing campaign. Got apples?

Inflation is still a "market" force.. I am not talking about just consumption...maybe I should have said "economic" forces. The point is that there is no inherent value outside of the economy. "Yes, and saying that something man made is more rreal then something nature made is humanist." It's not the "realness," it's the inherent value. Antigone is saying that there is no inherent value to diamonds outside of what we assign them. By your logic dogshit is and should be just as valuable as diamonds But if valuing the afghan my grandmother made me more than a diamond from the mall makes me a god-killing humanist so be it.

I think Spunky learned a new word recently and is excited to use it. I can relate. Anyway, dude, you're misusing the word "humanist."

dammit that was a stupid response. I can do better. Please ignore it or at least, don't view it as an indication of my ability to speak intelligently on such matters.....

we are not talking about personal value. we are talking about global value. your grandmother's quilt might be worth something to you, but not to the guy who is going to rebuild your house. he wants something that is of global value. something he can use to pay for something he needs. I was taught that humanism is putting the work and creation of man before the work and creation of god or nature.......

Spunky, no one is making such a broad philosophical gesture, except you. We're talking specifically about the diamond industry. Okay? Diamonds have no true global value. They are semi-precious stones that have been forced into the "precious" category by one company faking their rarity. If DeBeers went out of business and diamonds could be bought and sold freely like other gem stones, you'd find that rock you spent $5000 on is worth (pulling a figure out of my hat here) $500. A ruby, on the other hand, is truly rare and is priced appropriately. If you buy a $5000 ruby, you could probably sell it for $5000. So artificial diamonds threaten the monopoly that DeBeers holds over the diamond trade by allowing people to buy cheap what's worth cheap. Got it?

Well, I realize that. But my comment was more in response to your misuse of humanism and how you treated Antigone's response as somehow reflective of "man killing god." Humanism is much more complicated than that.

WEll, you were obviously taught by someone who has no clue, no offense, but that's pretty obvious. Here's what Kurt Vonnegut has to say about humanism.

or to sum it up: being a Humanist means trying to behave decently without expectation of rewards or punishment after you are dead.

A really good Emerald is even rarer.It is classified as a beryl a mineral consisting of a silicate of beryllium and aluminum of great hardness and occurring in blue,greenish blue,yellow,pink or white hexagonal prisms.

The Affirmations of Humanism: A Statement of Principles We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems. We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation. We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life. We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities. We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state. We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding. We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance. We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves. We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity. We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species. We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our creative talents to their fullest. We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence. We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity. We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences. We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion. We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences. We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still to be made in the cosmos. We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking. We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others. We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality. We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings. Remember, I WAS raised in a christain environment, so to someone to beleives in God, the Bible, and Salvation, Humanism is the equivilent to Satanism. Peronally, I don't think humans or any of our creations could ever compare to the art that nature can create. I think we as a race are flawed and generally full of ourselves.

I think spunky has been reading too many conspiracy tracts about the gold standard and the Federal Reserve... And, are you really saying, spunk, that if I reject DeBeers I'm rejecting god? That's silly, really. I don't reject god, I just can't prove that he/she/it exists. However, I can prove that DeBeers exists. I call it the "Zales" test.

And, anyway, DeBeers props up the value of diamonds above their actual value, as stated many times on this thread. DeBeers is a human institution. Thus, the value of diamonds is not mandated by god, but by man. That is, unless you say that god invluences the actions of the members of DeBeers to increase diamond's value. However, if you use that argument, I can easily argue that god is influencing the creaters of artificial diamonds to reduce their value. Maybe he's punishing all of those merchants in his temple for worshiping at the golden calf of wealth. :)

"And, are you really saying, spunk, that if I reject DeBeers I'm rejecting god?" Ya, right on the nose. you got it. Further, Da Beers has been on this earth for thousands of years, and they influenced the druids and incans, and mayans, and egyptians. You got it. Forget it.

And, hey spunk, you can buy a $10000 diamond while there is a $500 alternative. It's your choice, for whatever reasons you want. No one's stopping you.

again. is it anyone's fault you're all over the map and entirely confusing and unclear with poin tof views? i don't think you understand humanism any more than you do the economics of the diamond trade, thus you bring to the table a lot of weird statements that send braniacs like kazoo and tiggy into a tailspin and then you are in awe when they interpret what you write.

"I think we as a race are flawed and generally full of ourselves." And, why do you think that your human mind and it's ideas about the nature of god would be immune from that? You are full of the arrogance of man. You just express it as reverence of god. Until you are humble you will never be able to see god, or nature for that matter.

and further....i bought my wife a diamond because thats what she wanted. this whole "diamonds are dumb" point of view seems overtly rash. we overpay for many things. thats no good reason. when it comes to the courtship of a love with jewels, getting them what they want is the best course. if your girl or guy wants a piece of fucking coal, its just as vaulable as a diamond or a ruby. (ps-Kazoo, North Georgia used to be a haven for Ruby Mining. I've been panning for gold and rubys in the mtns, near the small town of Dahlonega, GA. You and sem would have a fantastic time wading in a creekbed up there. Ive actually panned rubys and gold up there)

Spunky, could you please please please address what I, Kazoo, and Sem have said to you RE diamonds, i.e., the topic at hand? Please?

"Further, Da Beers has been on this earth for thousands of years, and they influenced the druids and incans, and mayans, and egyptians. " You just HAD to bring the Illuminati into this... A lot of the Humanist principles agree with statements that spunky has made about his own beliefs, i noticed. Anyway, diamonds are stupid and manipulative as decorations. As cutting implements and conductors, they seem pretty cool, though.

Da Beers or the value of natural versus manufactured daimonds? Or the "real" value versus "intrinsic" value? Or the fact that you would prefer the fake to the ral thing?

Fuck, I give up.

Aw, c'mon Rhi! Don't give up!

"Anyway, diamonds are stupid and manipulative as decorations." so are a lot of things. that doesnt stop us from doing them. i don't see anything stupid or manipulative about giving my wife a diamond to put in the engagment ring i gave her because thats what she wanted. and it looks fucking gorgeous on her. the giving of jewels to a love interest, regardless of global value, politics etc is a timeless ritual. to judge and say one is more stupid than the others, is well....stupid.

Did you read the article, spunk? With one of the emthods mentioned, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a fake and the real thing. So, if you can't tell the difference, are they different? How? Does a "real" diamond have a soul?

It's worse than talking to a wall, because at least you don't expect anything from the wall. Patrick, it's *not* a timeless ritual. Read the Salon article I linked to -- the association between diamonds and love was a marketing ploy dreamed up only recently.

Look, I'll post it AGAIN: "As a symbol of eternal love, the tradition of the diamond engagement ring has become so pervasive that it's hard to believe that this is a fairly recent phenomenon. And an extremely calculated one -- the result of a marketing campaign developed at a time when the demand for diamonds had sunk to an all-time low and an increasing supply threatened the precious (as opposed to semiprecious) nature of the stones."

no. im not saying giving of *DIAMONDS* is a timeless ritual. the giving of precious items, stones, jewelry of all sorts by male suitors to females is timeless.

"Did you read the article, spunk? With one of the emthods mentioned, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a fake and the real thing. So, if you can't tell the difference, are they different? How? Does a "real" diamond have a soul?" Yes, and I said I understand where you are coming from. You may not put a value on these things. This will have consequences. Not only to big corporations, but to small mom and pop shops. And there are some families and countries that use precious stones as a fall back on if the economy tanks. What I don't get is why you think thier (the diamonds) value is a myth created by corporations. That simply makes no sense to me. That sounds more "Illuminati"esque in the consipiracy realm then what I have said......

The geni is out of the bottle, there is no going back. The consequences to the global economy will be an interesting study. I can't wait to see the next generation processors that come out of this, though. Finally, a break on the performance barrier!

spunk, what you don't understand is that DeBeers has literal warehouses FULL of diamonds. if those diamonds hit the market, the price of diamonds would totally fall. but since DeBeers controls the source of diamonds, they can make them as rare as they want to and set the price accordingly. this is what everyone is trying to tell you.

"spunk, what you don't understand is that DeBeers has literal warehouses FULL of diamonds." Um, ok.... How did you come across this information? Do they advertise this fact? Is that common knowledge? If it is, then how are they able to get away with it? How are they (DeBeers) able to keep other corporations from filling thier own wherehouses and selling the diamonds at, say $50 less a karat? How would this work unless DeBeers was able to own all diamond mines on earth? And have all diamonds on earth in thier warehouses? OPEC isn't even capable of such a feat....

Spunky. Read the article I linked to. The answers are in there.

"This will have consequences." Of course it will. Do you see very many horse and carriage corporations around? No. We have cars now? Did many mom 'n' pop horse and carriage business go under when the horseless carriage came around? Yep. Why aren't you championing them?

still a lot of horse dealers about today. carriage dealers (manufacturers) became car manufacturers. they adapted or they died out. diamonds (gems) were made by nature. not man. That was my point.....

i couldn't read all that due to lack of attention span, but nothing has *real* or permanent value if i'm dying of thirst i'll give you all the whatever i have for water but you can put your diamonds where the sun don't shine

Oh, no I missed the salon article. I went out on my own and found tons of stuff by Illuminati conspiracy theorists. Oppenhiemer has been linked with Rothchild, Morgan and Stanley......

"How are they (DeBeers) able to keep other corporations from filling thier own wherehouses and selling the diamonds at, say $50 less a karat?" Because mining them and processing them may cost more than that. But, if you were in the diamond business, would you want DeBeer's monopoly destroyed? Not likely, when you could sell your product for ten times what it cost you to produce it, and people would gladly pay that much. Why buck the system?

"diamonds (gems) were made by nature. not man. That was my point....." A pointless point, that doesn't back up your economic argument in the least, but I'll grant that it's a point.

A good article about it.

"but you can put your diamonds where the sun don't shine" given the extreme pressure in which diamonds are made, perhaps we could have a cross process of sorts and exact another, new jewel all together, by putting them where the sun dont shine, and removing them once maximum rectal pressure has been exerted.

"But, if you were in the diamond business, would you want DeBeer's monopoly destroyed? Not likely, when you could sell your product for ten times what it cost you to produce it, and people would gladly pay that much. Why buck the system?" True. That statement makes sense to me.

ok. that was dumb. i admit. i need to eat. my stomach is starting to eat itself.

From the article you posted, spunk: "But the U.S. Justice Department doesn't see it that way. It has attempted to prosecute De Beers for antitrust violations....Citing insufficient evidence, a federal judge dismissed the indictment." Do you think it's a coincidence that one of the artificial diamond companies is headed by a former Army brigadier general?

What other illusion would you like to shatter today? My god, we're all worthless pigs! You there! Put down your hammer, that house is of no value to the man who's stomach has begun to eat itself... And you, how dare you even think of eating that hershey's bar! Your eating an african kid's flesh dammit! And you, proposing to that woman, how dare you give her something as worthless as diamonds! You might as well be giving her dogshit on a ring!

EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG Sunday, May 12, 2002 E-Mail Article Printer Friendly Version BURN THE OLIVE TREE, SELL THE LEXUS

Spunk, you can twist anything in your mind to be a liberal godless destruction of your traditional values world, can't you? This change in the diamond market is being brought about by a former Army general from Florida using the free market and good old fashioned American ingenuity to produce and sell his wares. Somehow, to you, this is a twisting of traditional American values? You're just a twisted one trick ideological pony.

dramatic pussy

I think he's been hitting the 'tussin again.

Could be. Diamonds wouldn't be worth anything if we lacked the technology to cut them. That's one reason the value of diamonds is not an inherent property. "What other illusion would you like to shatter today?" Which ever one you care to stand up. "My god, we're all worthless pigs!" Well, pigs, no. We aren't pigs. We are humans. Our worth? that's a product of several factors and viewpoints. Five billion years from now, everybody is worthless. 140 years ago in some parts of this country, the worth of a certain type of person was very well defined. Outside of the human mind, there is no "worth." "You there! Put down your hammer, that house is of no value to the man who's stomach has begun to eat itself..." It's up to the man himself to determine the worth of his house. Again, value=ontological construct. "And you, how dare you even think of eating that hershey's bar! Your eating an african kid's flesh dammit!" This one just puzzles me to no end, since I am unaware of any exploitation of african children to produce chocolate, although there could be. And the worth of the chocolate bar should include both the positive effects it's production adds to society AND any negative effects (something anathema to conservatives, I've noticed). "And you, proposing to that woman, how dare you give her something as worthless as diamonds! You might as well be giving her dogshit on a ring!" Might as well, if that's what she values. If she likes diamonds, give her diamonds. If she likes the pretty pebble you found for her on the first beach you walked on together, give her that. Whatever, man. In the end, it's all the same. Do you get the point YET?

"You there! Put down your hammer, that house is of no value to the man who's stomach has begun to eat itself..." That meant you have to look beyond yourself and beyond any value a single item has to you, and realize it's not all about you. It's about the man working on the house, and his family. They company that makes that hammer. And the company that makes the nails that that man is going to use the hammer on. "And you, how dare you even think of eating that hershey's bar! Your eating an african kid's flesh dammit!" Here "And you, proposing to that woman, how dare you give her something as worthless as diamonds! You might as well be giving her dogshit on a ring!" And again, look beyond yourself.

"So artificial diamonds threaten the monopoly " yeah, but the beauty of all this is that they're 100% real diamonds, and not artificial at all. Same stuff, just made faster. An onion is still an onion, whether it comes from the dirt ground or a hydrophonic farmhouse. I'm hyped about this. Diamonds will be used to help technology where they never could before because somebody needs a new pair of glittery earrings. It is such a waste. You know what used to be worth a lot of money? Tea. Tea was worth more than gold, and now we can buy 100 bags for a dollar at any store. i wait hopefully for the days when diamonds are as precious as plastic. imagine when they find a way to make gold....?

Dunno about sem or the rest, but I am looking beyond myself. Why do you think otherwise?

"Spunk, you can twist anything in your mind to be a liberal godless destruction of your traditional values world, can't you? " There was a time, when I could not do that. You all changed all of that. :P

That's just the first step.

you guys are all so inconsistant it is ridiculous. you should be ashamed.

How so? Explain.

just shut your fucking ass and concentrate on being ashamed. it would do you a world of good.

Like the good it's done you, preacher man?

OK, I am not even going to pretend that I can keep up with all that is happening on this thread...... Back to TATOOS AND BODY PIERCINGS!!!!! So I went to this one place that was recommended by a friend. Decided to check it out. They have been in business and licensed since 1969. The guy who opened the shop is currently working on my sketch. Everyone else has been there at least 10 years. I watched them put a tat on one girls ankle. It was very detailed and it looked great. They are working with the size of my tattoo. They made my sketch bigger, to fit around my navel but then realized that my navel is small, so if they have to go with the biggest size then it will cost me $60, but they will probably be able to shrink it down some and then it will cost less. These guys had TONS and TONS of different art work on display, covering all the walls and rows and rows of books and stands all over the place. They give you pics to show the work that they do. They take a lot of pride in their work. They are very skilled at what they do. Their shop is a small place on a side road that most people don't like the location of, but it is clean, and legal, and sanitary, and damn do they do a lot of good work. So I will be going there, as soon as I have the money.

Yay Eri. We just found out our bear cat has feline lukemia. I'm sad.

what is a bear cat? We had a coon cat once...

This might seem pretty strange... But even if you are not a believer, you should read this... What is the shortest chapter in the Bible? Answer - Psalms 117 What is the longest chapter in the Bible? Answer - Psalms 119 Which chapter is in the center of the Bible? Answer - Psalms 118 There are 594 chapters before Psalms 118. There are 594 chapters after Psalms 118. Add up the 594 plus 594, and you get 1188. What is the center verse in the Bible? Answer - Psalms 118:8 Does this verse say something significant about God's perfect will for our lives? The next time someone says they would like to find God's perfect will for their lives and that they want to be in the center of His will, just send them to the center of His Word! Psalms 118:8 (NKJV) "It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man." Now isn't it amazing how this worked out (or was God in the center of it)? Before sending this, I said a prayer for you. Do you have a minute? 60 seconds for God? All you need to do is simply say a small prayer for the person who posted this. "Father God bless spunky in whatever it is that you know he may be needing this day! And may spunky's life be full of your peace, prosperity and power as he seeks to have a closer relationship with You. In Jesus's Name Amen."

that's not the center of my bible, heathen. maybe the center of the dirty revolutionary bible. not my bible.

A bear cat would be a cat (tabby) that we called Bear.

Oh, sad. I'm sorry moonit. This isn't really about body modification or diamonds, but all my mom's jewelry (minus what she wore to work) was stolen two weeks ago so I'm making some for her birthday. I found a string of small jade hearts so I'm making her a pair of earrings and a bracelet. I have my great-grandmother's wedding ring, ninety some years old, suspected to be synthetic. It's pretty though. I never wear it because it'll get caught on things.

Lapis

Oh they'll all come out to see me when I ride,oh they'll all come out to see me when I ride,oh they'll all come out to see me,they'll all come out to see me when I ride!! Yee haw

I'm a rock, but a very soft rock. Ow.

Lapis, I'm sorry your mom had to experience that. Was anything else taken? Do you or she suspect who might have done it? Moonit, I'm sorry about your poor cat.

I look so far beyond myself that you can't even comprehend it, spunky. I would have thought that the point I was arguing made that clear. At one point, chicken was considered a delicacy that only the rich could afford to eat regularly. Ishn't dat VEIRD?

"Kazoo and I both agree there will be no diamond engagement rings (unless I can find a way to retrieve Timothy Leary from orbit and make him into a Lifegem (there are exceptions to everything))." dude. you made coffee spurt out my nose.

Craptakula this thread is getting long. Just pierce the dicks and the clits and end the god damn thing already. Oh and by the way, squeezing your loved ones into "lifegems" WHAT THE FLYING HELL PEOPLE. Just burn them or bury them, but don't squeeze them into gems. (Launching them into space is an acceptable alternative to burning or burying.)

I dunno... I like the idea of making family members into diamonds. The unloved ones can then be used to in oil drills or mining machinery. The rest can be sold on the black market to maintain my drug habit. . Heh. Imagine the look on your fiance's face when you lovingly slide the ring onto her finger and say, "Aw, look. I think Mom likes you."

Ok you have a point there.

"The unloved ones can then be used to in oil drills or mining machinery." Are you kidding? I think this is exactly where my blue-collar union-man grandfather would want to be.

"unless I can find a way to retrieve Timothy Leary from orbit and make him into a Lifegem" Did you know that I have Timothy Leary's autograph on a developmental psychology textbook? He came to my college to debate and that's the only thing I had with me when I chatted with him afterwards. :)

I'm in awe and jealous,what did you talk about?

Oh, and just to touch back on the diamond thing for a moment: Nippon Telegraph and Telephone Corp just demonstrated a diamond semiconductor that runs at 81GHz. They're targeting 200GHz. These diamond chips are created in the same way as the artificial diamonds talked about above. Still think natural diamonds are better, spunkster?

Why is there so much debate about whether or not natural diamonds are better/worse than man made diamonds? I mean, in the grand scheme of things, exactly how important is it, really? There is just too much crap about diamonds to read now. I have all natural diamonds, in my ears (all 3 holes on both sides) necklaces and some beautiful rings. I like em. I also have fakies that I like too. I don't see what the big deal is all about.

the big deal is that according to spunk there are people and whole countries who have come to rely on the artifically inflated value of real diamonds. when fake diamonds deflate the value of diamonds to a rational level it is going to ruin lives everywhere. kinda like when the chickens came down so us common folk could eat 'em.

or grapes

except we still have not figured out how to make chicken or grapes like nature does, just the important things like diamonds....

I was going to say family fortunes are not invested in chickens, but I know a lot of folks in Arkansas that would argue that point.......

your point is lost on my simple mind, but KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT, BROTHER.

what's the point.

Point Amber is a real good beer, especially in the context of a decent bar with a good jukebox and a pool table.

Almost all my mom's jewelry, my dad's cufflinks and box with pictures and old glasses in it along with the only set of keys to the old t-bird, a bucket of change and all my sister's nice jewelry (including some that my grandmother gave her, originally a present from my grandfather) and a couple of bags. They slipped a window out of the frame in the garage and got in that way. The lawn was getting sprayed that day and they saw someone sneaking around in the bushes and assumed it was a neighbor.

I hate theives,I got ripped off too,but I think it was an inside job,probably Ryan.He's out of the house now and we've changed the locks...again.

Yeah, I think when we got ripped off it was an inside job, too. Like a friend or something. So I am going to call and make my appointment.....Friday evening...woo hoo. Am I going to need to post pics after I get this done?

sure. Give me your email address and I will send you a picture of what NOT to get on your belly (non-offensive image)

Yes. Lately I've been dreaming about my things (not the junk, but things I use, like my camera and the musical instruments) either burning or disappearing entirely and I'm sometimes frantic sometimes completely indifferent. Thieves are like liars, I feel sorry for them, a little, but they need to understand that what they do is wrong and what they do hurts others.

Man, that sucks, Lapis. I can only imagine how you and your family must feel. I'm getting pissed off just thinking about it.

Lapis - can you recommend any websites for non-ferrous (no iron) ear hoops?

her email

Gol, I have no clue where to find that. The only jewelry I've worn lately is my chain (mostly because I can't take it off) and the odd necklace. Why no iron, Sem?

Go ahead and send me the pics sem. I will have Spunky take some of mine after I get home or something.

iron is magnetic and screws up this piece of remote sensing equipment I want to learn to operate, which measures variations in magnetic fields below the ground surface. Tbone already said titanium, but he said it's also very expensive, and I would like to keep 10-gauge rings in my ears.

Sem, you can get surgical grade stainless steel which is non-magnetic. Titanium is the way to go, but TBone is right, its fucking like platinum when it comes to cost.

sem, they make plastic ear rings and retainers, also ones made of bone and wood. or also, can't you just take em' out when you're with the machine? a 10 gauge isn't going to close up too fast.....probably takes days.

Thanks for the pic sem. It was funny. I really don't know what advice to offer about your earrings. Mine are all........get this......14k gold and.....natural diamonds in all 3 holes on both sides. :)

http://www.stylejewelry.com/_titanium_body_jewelry.html

Sem, Body Circle makes nice quality jewelry. http://www.bodycircle.com/catalog.ihtml

Taking them out is not an option since it's freaking impossible for me to get the beads back in them. I'll check out those websites.

Damn. I guess it's not as expensive as I thought. Why is titanium camping equipment so rediculously spendy?

Different kind of Titanium TBone.

Wouldn't ear-insertion titanium be more pure and expensive than tent-stake titanium?

Wouldn't there be more titanium in tent stakes than in an earring?

why not let your money work for you? Adorn yourself with tent-stake titanium stakes,[this would solve Sems problem of getting the little beads back in]. You'd be the first on your block to do this...........a real trend setter. AND, as an added bonus, if you were camping, you'd be all set to pitch that tent.

Yeah, now that you mention it, I guess it scales fairly well. I forget how little metal is used for earrings. Silly me. . Titanium tent stakes would make great ear-ware. They're certainly light enough.

What would you expect to pay for a titanium earring? Is it comparable to buying gold?

J's link above has some examples.

Bike spokes!

Czarina! Stick around, would you?

I did it!!!!!! I went to the tattoo parlor and I did it!!!!! Woo hoo! The artist did an absolutely amazing job. I mean, he really did a great job. He took my sketch and added his own touch and I love it. He also gave me some anti-microbal soap that has the ointment in it. I didn't have to buy any soaps or ointments or anything. I gave the guy a nice tip. I will try to have spunky take a picture of it.

have him do it now. picture. now.

I'll have him get pics sometime today. Geez, I have been so busy lately. I hope I have time to get everything I need to done!

Pic

It's really nice,did it hurt?

look at eri's pretty tummy-tattoo

I expected it to be a lot more painful than it was. I was suprised easy it was. I went over to a friend of mines this morning. She is wanting another tattoo, and wanted to see the work this place did to decide if she wanted to get her next tattoo there. I then discovered that my friends were psyching me out, making me think it was going to be worse that it is, to make it easier.......it worked. I even fell for the "Take two tylenol an hour before you go" trick. Woo hoo!!!! I did it and I didn't chicken out!!!

Uhh don't take anything before a tattoo. Its just a bad idea period.

Love it. I have to get my dragon soon.

Thanks Moonit!!!! My best friend S called while I was getting it done and now she is pissed at me. She had said that she wanted us to get matching tats on the small of our backs (she says my belly button will sag one day and it will look like shit) but she backed out of it, so I got this one (would have gotten it anyways. She wanted me to get it done while she was here, so she could go with me. She said it is a lifechanging moment and she wanted to be there for it. Whatever. I told my parents I finally went thru with it, and my mom had a million questions.....how bad did it hurt? Blah blah blah. Next time she comes out here to visit (probably next summer) she wants me to take her to this shop to get her tattoo done.......either a gecko or a celtic knot. I have another friend that wants to go there and check out there stuff, cuz she wants a celtic knot arm band, and another friend who wants to go see stuff and get a tattoo. I am the apartment complex trendsetter...hehehe. It's starting to scab up a little now. I don't know how much is normal or not, but it still looks good, you can't see the scabs, but I can feel them.

it's sweet, eri.

Thank you wisper. I am happy with it. He took my sketch and then added the rest freehand. I am just really happy with it. It is exactly what I wanted.

scabs are most normal. don't pick. whatever you do. i'm sure you got an aftercare sheet and all, but DON'T PICK.

I have no desire to pick at it. I am not big on picking scabs anyways, but I am afraid that if I picked at it I would end up picking the ink out and it would look shitty, so I am just going to clean it and leave it alone. At least I know that the scabbing is normal. Everyone out here told me that you want to avoid getting a scab altogether and I kept thinking, I have been cleaning it right, 6 times a day, just like they said and its scabbing.....am I doing something wrong that I don't know about? Hopefully I will be done with the must wash constantly phase soon and can just let it heal over. And the company picnic is in a week........Sorry guys, can't go swimming, got a new tattoo......that would go over really well :p

Eri,i have been thinking of getting the mole on the left side of my ribs made into a spider,[it allready has some hairs growing out of it],so i just need eight legs on it to make it look real cool,[and creepy]

That sounds funny. I would like to see that!

My memory is sooo bad these days,but I'll never forget seeing some crazy hippie hitchhiking with his shirt off,his arm held up high and he had a tatoo of a womans leg on the side of his ribs below the armpit and a womans leg on the inside of his arm above his hairy armpit,it was a visual thing,I don't know how he expected to get a ride like that.

eri and j,you are both total nuts,same as me,thats the reason i love you both so much.Its so hard to put across my feelings for you both on a computer keyboard,yet i feel you both have an understanding of the way an Eastern European male witch thinks.LADY BLESS.

ERI,you have got me thinking about that dam disgusting hairy mole on my left ribcage,if i have it made into a spider,i will post it on this site.LADY BLESS.

I like you too V.v. your a trip:)

J,i need constructive ideas from you.so what would YOU do with a mole on your left lower rib?ice cubes and a big knife perhaps?

No,go to a doctor,I know lasers can remove them.

j,you mean evan quarter inch across?i was born with this dam monstrosity and i really hate it,its one of the main reasons why i dont go swimming no more.

You just need a good story to go with it. Tell people it's not actually a mole, but an old stab would from a fountain pen when you you were in Catholic school. You called a nun a whore, and she rushed you.

excellent!!

TBone,how come you know i went to Catholic school?i expect you figure Russian Orthodox Schools are rare outside of Russia and the Baltic States,[thats true]there fore the only alternative is Catholic Schools[also true]your train of thought is excellent.

TBone,i swear there is more than a touch of White Witch in you.

test

Testor,what kind of test?Latin?with that i am NULLA SECUNDUS [second to none]

Catholic School stories are always the best ones.

catholic school story: Religion class. Some pro-life guest speaker shows up with a video, aimed at a teen audience. It's one of those glorious ones with 'hip' wording and 'mtv style' camera work. It's a drama about a girl who goes to an abortion clinic but halfway through.... the soul of her unborn fetus talks her out of it. The voice of the fetus? Jonathan Taylor Thomas no shit.

catholic school story: end of last year at school. Go to class, all the desks are being pushed out of the way for an unexpected dance. Cool right? A couple of the "popular" kids bring in tapes and we are all dancing around the classroom and the song "Push It" by Salt n Pepa is playing (yes it was a long time ago). All of the nuns start laughing and the teacher comes running into the classroom from another room, picks up her tape player, throws it on the ground and stomps on it and says "Now I find that to be a little inappropriate".

Ahh yes Catholic School Stories... This one time, me and this chick, were gettin down and .... WAIT a sec, ooooh Catholic School stories, not Catholic School Girl stories. I got confused.

"Catholic schoolgirls. The uniform's what does it for me. I wish I'd went with more Catholic schoolgirls when I was a kid. As it stands, I have no 'And then she unzipped her jumper' stories."

Then make one up,OR do what i did years ago,at 11p.m.slowly climb over the walls of a Catholic girls school,ALLMOST get to have sex with one of them,then get punched in the face by an insomniac nun,[i got out of that place so fast,i left my pants behind]

swine, ask denise if she knows mike leger (pronounced "ledger") from nyc, now in honolulu.

Denise,do you know Mike Leger from nyc,now in Honolulu.?

to all you Catholic virgins,THANKS FOR NOTHING.

Hal,if you find sex a pain in the ass,you must be doing it wrong.

I may have been a catholic school girl a long time ago, but I sure as hell am not a virgin :p

my neighbors are fucking. or arguing. or taking a crap. <moan> <sound of toilet seat going up> "Oh! You god DAMN whore!" <giggles> "FUCKING what?!" "ewwwww!" when i was a young catholic boy i learned how to fuck women, smoke cigarettes, cuss, spit, shoplift and ride a motorbike.

I have been fortunate not to hear my neighbors much, but there is a new family moving in upstairs this week so only time will tell..... When I was a young catholic schoolgirl I learned how to be a true social outcast, how to befriend the one bad girl in school, cuss, sneak smokes in the parking lot and how to avoid participating in all sports, and I became an expert at sleeping through religion class. At least your neighbors are entertaining Nate.

Nuns creep me out.

i havent heard any neighbors gettin it on, but i had a really really naughty dream last night and it will have a residual effect on me for probably most of the day. do you know the type? the type of dream? the kind that sticks with you even thought the specifics fade...the sensation and residue last? god damn im in trouble and for the record, hearing people fuck can be so god damn intriguing, but its best you don't know what they look like.

Patrick,woke up with that stirring in the loins,but im dam if i can remember the porno dream i had.

I had a dream that I climbed a big old iron fence around a park and couldn't get down, o I dropped my bag to someone standing below, a policeman scared me and chased me over, then my bag was thrown over the fence to me. After that I walked back around the fence and to a bar where I sat next to an old fling who asked me to hold onto his hat, sketchbook and sunglasses while he kissed the girl sitting on his other side. I threw his things to the ground and stalked out. Before that, I was hanging at the new anarchist clown house with caffeine (she had her face off) waiting for her daughter to get home from school.

Lapis,i still get them dreams about flesh eating pitbulls running after me,trying to bite my ass.My porno dreams are few and far between,and i wish i had more of them.

I visited them today (the anarchist clowns) by accident. I was biking to get some food and I saw Dingo waving from the yard so of course I stop and get a tour from Robin (the daughter, age fiveish). It looks almost exactly how I dream: light, bright, warm colored, fairly empty downstairs. It has a very good feel to it, like breathing. Breathing feels good. They have a nine-month old pitbull named Banjo and she is a lovely dog that protects the little girl.

Clowns scare the hell out of me. All I ask darlin, is if I come to Portland, can we avoid the clowns please.

so now that i'm talking about clowns it's if?! the clowns are good and cool people. if you don't want to meet good and cool people you don't have to meet them. i wasn't planning on walking all over portland, "hi ________, this is hal, he's from montana."

Hal,only you and me know the real truth about clowns,they live in sewers,entice children to join them in ballon blowing competitions,then eat them.,and some of them work for Mc.Donalds.

I dont like the sound of them ANTI-CHRIST CLOWNS that Lapis meet.

Bah, you folks never see them without the paint.

EXACTLY MY POINT,without paint we would see the horns,tails,and cloven hoofs

Maybe you would through your anticlown prejudice.

Lapis,o.k.so Hal and i may have been influenced just a tad by the STEPHEN KING book,tell us then,just what is the persona of a Clown?

It depends on the clown. Clowns are born human beings. They're people just like you and me. They just slap on a little paint and put on some funny clothes and do weird things on purpose, whatever will get people to watch the show. I used to be the gorilla for a clown troupe, for about six months off and on.

Lapis,when my father was a kid,he work for a while in Moscow State Circus as a tent rigger,but he did not get to meet any clowns,they kept well away from him,as did everone [he was also a bare knuckle prize fighter]so my family knows nothing about Clowns,apart from i read in IF.

Lapis,i still find it hard to belive Clowns dont eat human flesh.

If? You mean It? Stephen King writes laughable horror novels. They have nothing to do with reality. Now I have not read It but I think that any portrayal of clowns in a novel such as that would be a completely inaccurate portrayal of clowns. My friends the clowns are very nice people. I used to babysit their little girl sometimes. They know all their neighbors and take an active stance in the community. Dingo does odd jobs around the neighborhood, Caffeine works as a baker at a local cafe and makes natural dog treats (as in: safe and tasty even for kids) to sell. They play political music and do sideshow acts. Like laying in glass and making balloon animals. And a lot of stupid stuff but not every day. That's on the videos and some of the people who dress up as clowns are scary. I was in training to be a clown when I worked with them, I might try it again. I was going to be a stiltwalking clown (imagine being six feet tall and then adding three feet of stilts, scary?) who was a kleptomaniac. I was trying to design prosthetic hands for myself, puppet arms that would add to my reach as well, but I couldn't get my designs to work.

My fear of clowns has nothing to do with Stephen King, in fact the only Stephen King novel I've ever read was "The Stand." I don't know why, but clowns scare the hell out of me, the very premise of clowns is scary to me. Don't ask me why, I can't answer it.

I know lots of people who are afraid of clowns. I thought being afraid of clowns was really common, especially in little kids.

I posted here before about my fear of clowns,one scared the shit out of me when I was 4 at the circus and I've hated them every since then.

Some of them do encourage the fear. I don't. My friends don't.

clowing is serious stuff

clowning, that is. Clow: 1. By-form of cloy v. in various literal senses: To fasten with nails; to wound with a nail; to spike 2a. An implement resembling a dung-fork with the prongs bent at right angles, used for dragging dung out of cow-stalls. 2b. Hence clow v.2, to drag or rake with a clow. I guess clowing is serious business too.

i think hippies are scarier than clowns.

If Roger Mc. Donald thinks its funny to give us food poisoning,he is a real sick in the head dude.

Also I have a lot of respect for Batman,but I dont like that evil clown THE JOKER.

roger mcdonald ronald's evil twin that *is* scary

I recon Roger Mc.Donald and The Joker are BOTH evil,[and twins]

Kazu,dont you think THE JOKER looks like a flesh eating transvestite pervert?

Lapis,the Stephen King book was indeed IT and not IF.

Nah Hippies are harmless, they are every where around here. The thing about hippies you have to watch out for is their dogs, those fuckers can be downright nasty. Oh and if you have an allergy to pachulli (or however its spelled.) RUN, RUN FAST AND FAR. Hippie women really scare me, something about the personal hygine thing. I don't know but women who have more leg hair then I do, frighten me. And I'm like a fuckin hobbit. Not to mention the underarm hair is a little disturbing as well.

Hal,you just need to put up a sign that says,THIS WAY TO WOODSTOCK,and they will be gone like a herd of buffalo in the night.

I don't know any flesh eating transvestite perverts, I think you need to find some new friends, V.v. The Joker is a little freaky looking.

Clowns are tricky.

I know transvestites, transexuals, and perverts, but can't say I am acquainted with any flesh eaters....I must be hanging out with the wrong crowds :)

They do not go by all the ethics codes. They're renegades. I used to have a bit of armpit hair, but I've gotten in the habit of shaving again. Easier to go three days without a shower (without stinking) that way. Here's a new topic for this thread: how much hair does everyone have?

I stopped shaving my armpits once to see what would happen. I got about a half an inch and I had to shave because I couldn't stop thinking about my armpits. I shave my legs. The only time I really stopped was when I lived in Syracuse and we had this ridiculously narrow shower and I wasn't seeing anyone and I wore pants all the time because it was always cold. I know some women, like my old friend C., who have nice, light hair that just looks kind of fuzzy when they don't shave. That looks kind of cute. Mine does not, it looks kind of matted and slimy so I shave. I also get my brows waxed about 4-5 times a year, and my upper lip maybe once or twice a year. Sometimes I have to pluck a few dark hairs from my neck or chin, like one or two. It's a neat feeling, I like it. I have a little hair on my tummy--a happy trail of sorts--that I waxed obsessively when I first started seeing Sem.

I shave my pits for hygiene purposes. My legs/arms have such fine silky hair that it would be silly. Actually, people think I do shave my legs and have to brought uncomfortably close to prove this. I also trim and wax de bush. My eyebrows are quite cute as is, though. My whole face is, really. I am mustache free! Actually, I am an equal opportunity face/pit hair hater, I think no one should have hair there. As far as the hair down there, everyone could probably use a little trim now and then.

I occasionally pluck my eyebrows when they get too close together, which is every four to six weeks or so, rather like getting a haircut. I have an annoying hair on my left arm which grows out of a mole. It is almost black and gets to be up to an inch long. I pluck it every time I notice it and can find my tweezers. I shave my pits almost every time I shower. Sometimes I'll skip it, and I'll get all stubbly and then I shave the next time because stubbly is annoying. There's maybe two or three hairs between belly button and bush, which are also plucked every so often. Generally I like my pubic hair, I've never trimmed it though I shaved it once and it itched like hell for the next few days. Though it would be nice to not have any during that time. I do enjoy washing it, lather is nice. With legs, they are bare in summer, and hairier in winter. I'll shave them tomorrow.

hal, i fail to believe you have more hippies in montana than i have here in santa cruz. regards, phil miup

I shave my legs when I remember too. I'm lucky to have quite fine blonde hair there. Armies I do every couple of days, pluck my own eyebrows but when I feel like a treat I get my lashes tinted and a brow wax at the same time.

I'm a hobbit.

Hairy feet?

Hal,dont care what you are,your a dam fine HOMBRE.

I'm hairy. I use clippers on my legs and armpits every few weeks. No eyebrow issues.

LAPIS,You are a real nice person in my opinion,so i give you a real streight opinion to your q,sometimes i shave my pubes,sometimes not,depends on the girls preference.,sometimes i shave the girls pubes,[and i try real hard not to nick them]

I'm not so good a growing hair. It's all extremely fine. . I can grow a little on my chin, but my cheeks still don't need any sort of regular shaving. . I don't shave my head anymore, nor is it currently green.

TBone,you allways give good advice,so tell me,Dire Straits,Mark Knopfler,you like them,or hate them?what do you think bro?

TBone knows, if I don't shave for like a week I get hairy. He probably doesn't know about the feet but yeah darlin... I have hobbit feet.

I am not qualified to give advice on this matter. . And Hal, I'm not quite so savvy as you imagine on the details of your hair growth.

yeah id back away from that one real slowly tbone.

Hee! Hair is funny. I could make some sort of disparaging comment at this time but I'll refrain myself from doing so. Doot. I also have a tiny soft (almost) furry patch on the small of my back.

Shaved pubes bad,waxed pubes good.

once again, J, you're making your platform to my liking.

J is wise. I don't plan on doing either though.

LAPIS,shaven pubes is o.k. but WOW DOES IT ITCH WHEN IT RE-GROWS.

I have to have a big old wad of self loathing to work up the nerve to do it,but it's all good,and you don't get that nasty stubble.

I FEEL ITS MY DUTY TO STATE SWEDISH BLOND PUBES ARE SEE THROUGH,DONT MAKE NO DIFFERENCE IF THEM GIRLS SHAVE ,EM OR NOT.

MALE SORABJIS,get yourselfs to SWEDEN,over there its o.k. for girls to come on strong to GUYS they like,[sounds good to me]I got chatted up 3 times in 5 mins,just on my way to the shops for cigs.p.s. the only thing thats cheap in Sweden is Porno,but its real good stuff.Take a tip,dye your hair dark brown or black,and use fake tan.

but J doesn't it hurt? I'm scared to death of waxing, but that would be the first place to go if i wasn't

waxing is way better than razor burn. And it doesn't hurt that much, really. You get all pumped up and then its over.

It can hurt Whisper if you don't do things just right,you don't want to put the wax on if it's too hot,for me anyway it took a while to get that down ouchy.You have to make sure you leave yourself enough to make a "handle"or what your going to grip when your ready to rip your hair out and when you do rip, do it as fast as you can,don't drag it out any longer than you have to.It used to make me sneeze every time I plucked my eyebrows,I got used to it same with waxing.Plus I'm thinking people pay big bucks at a salon to have this done and I'm doing it myself for practically nothing.

waxing hurts but not *that* bad. it just hurts for a few seconds and then it's over. just get zen about it. i know you could handle it, wisper, no problem.

"Zen and the art of Waxing."

rowlfie will thank you wisper. if you are to consider, a brazilian is just right. leaves all the pretty foliage up top and like a marble countertop where it counts.

rowlfie will thank you wisper. if you are to consider, a brazilian is just right. leaves all the pretty foliage up top and like a marble countertop where it counts.

to answer the title of this thread (and shift gears) i've intentionally brought myself to the verge of tears

I've been looking at the slideshow yahoo pictures all day too and choking back...which I think is a good thing. Matt told me the other night that it seems so far away that it's hard for him to get emotional about it anymore. I don't think it's far away at all..

i feel its the least i owe, to observe. i can't possibly imagine the monolith of sadness that weighs on the families.

I now have a new belly ring to go with my tattoo. Watching them try to pierce my belly button was kinda funny, though, concidering I didn't want it to mess up my tattoo, and apparently my belly is too small, too flat and too tight to get it pierced easily........damn that luck.

Your belly ring is cute.

Thank you honey.

arg! gremlins!!!!

sem, you see it too? the Matrix! what is up with the search results....

it keeps saying i'm posting on this thread when i'm not.... er wait.

Just got 2 more of the set of 6 tattoo's on my forearm. I previously only had 2 of them done, now I'm up to 4. Pics when I get them taken and posted.

This is why they call me Grace.

oh no! *ouch* what happened?

I was out running Sunday morning and tripped on a tiny seam in the sidewalk. I also shredded my knees and palms. Best of all, tomorrow night I have to get up in front of a couple hundred people to accept an award on behalf of our magazine. I can't wait to see their expressions when we go to shake hands. I'm hoping I can cover my chin with makeup, but it's still a little tender to the touch. Saturday is the trail run I've been training for - Maybe those folks will be a little impressed and think I'm hardcore instead of assuming I'm a victim of domestic violence like most people do.

yeow! i've tripped on a seam in a sidewalk before too, a couple years ago in San Jose, while we were visiting senor's parents. i sprained my ankle, and shredded my hands and knees. no fun. good luck on your run! i'm so jealous. can't wait to run again.

I hope your chin heals quickly... it could have been worse,what if you bit your tongue off? That probably doesn't make you feel better,but that's what I was trying for anyway.Good luck on your run:)

Karla, ouch, it gotta hurts, especially in the hot weather, I have several shredded skin result of falling down on a concrete.

Ouch! It does seem like you should be able to cover it up to some degree, but it looks like it really hurts. Dave once elbowed me in the eye while sleeping, and I got a big black eye right in time for the Thurston county fair. I was a 4H leader for Cleo's small animal rescue group, so I had to be there almost every day. I got some crazy stares, I'm tellin ya. It was tres embarrassing.

Walking around with a big bruise on my face has been an interesting study in human behavior. Usually, I'm pretty invisible in public, but I've been getting lots of second looks. Several strangers have come right out and asked me what happened. Then there are the neighbors and co-workers who avoid making any comment at all. I had a half-hour conversation with one colleague who never said a word to me about it, but later went to my boss and gave her the 3rd degree. My sister was on a medication that causes brusing and managed to give herself a black eye just trying to rub an eyelash out of her eye. She was waitressing at the time and said she never made more money in her life than when she had that black eye.

whole new worlds of tacky await us! i miss 2003. kazu, did you ever get the tattoo on your back?

I miss 2003 like nobody's business, but I sure don't miss spunk's huckleberry arguments.

No, but I still want one.