how do you get over someone that your not sure you should get over but you need to because it's killing you (well, ) and you don't want to 'start something' with someone else, and they still call while they're seeing someone else the 'time' thing just doesn't feel like it's going to cut it

Okay Heather -- gloves off on this one? (And you damn well better not be Heather aka Scrunch/mooning over breaking up w/Jason! Becuz then you're only 15 & this is not advice for kids.) No punches shall be pulled. No prisoners shall be taken. (You might wanna pour yrself a shot of something before we begin. ) When you're in pain/ YOUR feelings have to come first -- period. (See the addendum to chap. 8: Dealing With Ex-Lovers, in The Handbook. It's on pg. 146 in my edition/but I'm sure yours is a lot more recent. But Universal Laws always apply.) If it's over & he's w/someone else/then tell him to stop calling. No contact. Cut-the-fuck- off for at least 6 mos. The wounds need time to at least scab over/if not actually heal. But every time you pick up the phone & it's him/the scab comes off & you start bleeding again. Not good atall. So tell him not to call anymore the next time you speak to him. (Better yet -- e-mail him if you can.) And be honest abt why that has to be the case. (Some guys are so dense they really don't get that it hurts to hear from them after the crash-&-burn. Or they're sadistic bastards who wanna keep jerking yr chain.) When you're up for chatting/you'll call him. And why the fuck is he calling you if he's seeing someone else? Before I go off half cocked here/I need to be briefed on why you split up in the 1st place. Did you jump or did he push you or was it mutual? How long were you together? And how long afterwards did he hook up w/someone else? And is this affecting yr health? Are you sleeping & eating okay? Are you 'safe' as my ex-shrink used to politely ask/or do you feel suicidal? Feeling like you wanna die is okay. Feeling suicidal is not. Do you have someone who is physically available to hang w/you & keep you company when shit gets too thick to deal with? Do you have any Ben & Jerry's in the house? (Wavy Gravy is great behind shots of scotch.) Go get some comfort food &/or a stiff drink/ come back here & give me the 411. Or you can e-mail me if you don't wanna spill all over the boards.

That's good advice there RC. The "is it over?" problem usually affects one side a lot worse than the other. And if they're not crying into their ice-cream then it's you. It's just too damn hard to give it up if you talk to them and even worse if you see them. That's why I'd run the fuck away for at least six months. Preferably to a different land mass. It's hard to keep wanting someone from 3000 miles. (although not impossible, so be careful). I wish you the best Heather, at least you know that you need to do something.

(She doesn't wanna spill. She e-mailed me.) Look -- you've been w/this guy for more than a decade. You're in yr mid-20's/so that means you've spent ALL of yr adolescence & yr adult life in love w/one guy!!! Which means he is a HUGE part of yr history/psyche & emotional make-up. Which means it's gonna take you a VERY long time to get over this. Six months of mourning is nothing when you've been in love w/someone more than 10 yrs. So don't beat yrself up becuz you think it's taking you too long to get over him. And of course/ he's gonna want to talk to you -- you are as big a part of him as he is of you. But you've really gotta break that habit of communicating w/him -- at least until you're not hurting so much. And he shd be willing to respect that. I don't care if he's got the guilts becuz the 2 of you split up after being together forever. HE obviously wasn't too broken up to hook up w/someone new (which says a lot). But he doesn't get to use talking to you as a salve for his guilt -- not at yr expense.

but when we haven't spoken (because i've asked him a few times not to call, but either he does or i do) something builds up in me until i can't stand it and i have to talk to him no matter what. and then he'll say he still has hope for the future.

BUT -- you've also gotta take responsibility for the fact that he proposed to you last summer & you hemmed & hawed/instead of saying yes. Have you figured out why? And no/the usual "but-we're-in-school-how-can-we-get-married?" rap ain't cutting it here. You cd have gotten engaged & then married after graduation. (Which my mother seems to think every college student in America did/except me). Seems to me that having that ring on yr finger wd have done a lot to validate yr feelings for each other/& made you more secure/considering the fact that you were both in different cities. So yr reaction to his proposal is kinda surprising... Have you thought abt why you turned him down/even tho you say you always planned to marry him?

we did get engaged told everyone

i fucked up he fucked up but now i'm having trouble remembering how to live (and i'm not talking about suicide)

PULEEZE -- DON'T CALL HIM! I KNOW how hard it is not too/but talking to him is like skinning yrself alive, Heather. And for him to tell you he 'still has hope' is like pouring Tobasco sauce over yr flayed remains! What's the isue here? If he was involved w/her before you broke it off/& if you broke it off becuz he was cheating (vs. telling him to quit that chick & giving him another chance)... then you've made yr bed. You decided you didn't want to be w/him anymore becuz he'd cheated on you (which is what I wd've done). And you've gotta deal w/that. If he didn't hook up w/her until after you broke up w/him -- well/I STILL can't cut him any slack/becuz he moved too fast w/this chick. Which makes me suspect they were more than friends back when you were feeling hincky abt things btwn the 2 of you. And being so far apart makes those demons 100 times worse. And I'll bet this has happened before/hasn't it? Maybe I'm just a bitch/but my rule is "The first time you fuck up/keep right on walking." I've been thru that wringer before -- never again! Once a man cheats on you & you let him continue to be yr man/he will ALWAYS cheat again. ALWAYS. It may take some time/but when you don't kick him to the curb/sooner or later/he starts thinking that the next time/he'll be slick enuf not to let you catch him. And then you're twice the fool/standing there screaming abt the whoe you caught him w/yesterday/plus that other bitch you caught him w/last year or 8 mos. ago or whatever. And this time/all those tears you're crying are for you -- becuz you know... You gave yr heart to a man who cdn't be trusted w/it. He fucked up/you figured it was a one-time thing/so you forgave him. Then he did it again. Which means the 1st time was no aberration. THAT is the kind of muthafucker he is. And you shd've known better after the 1st time. If he's w/someone else & still talking that "someday/we'll be to-ge-e-e-ther" shit/what does that say abt him? Why is he holding out hope of reconciling w/you at this point? He has nothing to offer you anymore, Heather. He's a man who cheats & he doesn't deserve you. I know that doesn't make the hurt any easier to bear. All I can say is that getting thru this is probably the hardest thing you'll ever have to do in yr life. But you've gotta do it. It's a rite of passage. Guys get circle jerks. Or having sex w/2 women at once. Or going off to war & killing someone. Or winning the Superbowl or whatever. That's their initiation into Manhood. Women get to travel thru the Circles of Hell After the Crash & Burn. Becuz a woman is the strongest thing God ever made. Nothing can destroy a woman. Except a man. But once you come thru this/you will be an official grown-up/kick-ass/for-real Woman. This is the shit that seperates the serious sisters from the chickenheads. This is the shit yr mother never told you abt. But every woman goes thru it. And if you live to tell abt it/every other woman on the room understands/becuz she's been there & back.

wow give me strength

The only quasi-cure i can think of to stop yrself from missing him is to Think About Him Being With HER every time he comes into yr mind. Righteous anger is VERY cleansing. If you think abt the 2 of them together/it cuts right thru the immediate pangs of longing for him. Becuz the pain will push the love out of yr heart/at least temporarily. It will definitely take a long while for you to work thru this/becuz you're still so conflicted abt whether or not you shd've broken it off w/him. And you don't have to throw yrself at someone else -- that shit is always a mess. If there's someone of the male persuasion around who seems interested/tell him that you're in recovery from a major heartbreak & see how he reacts to that. If he knows how to make friends w/a woman 1st before trying to make a move/& he's willing to lend a sympathetic ear when you need to vent/it cd be the start of a terrific friendship. (Ever see 'Sliding Doors' w/Gwyneth Paltrow? Rent it -- it was kinda cute.) But most guys aren't up for being yr shoulder to cry on -- not for very long anyway. However/ making a new friend (male or female) to hang out & do stuff w/wd be a great help. But if there's someone around who seriously digs you/you owe it to him to tell him to back off until you can get yrself together. I've seen dozens of people fall into new realtionships while on the rebound/& it never works out in the long run. They're just using the new lover as a life preserver/& none of their feelings are really genuine becuz they're not based in any real knowledge of this new lover. (And you certainly wdn't want a man to use you that way.) [On a more positive note: Be grateful that he lives far away/so you don't have to suffer the additional insult of seeing him all over town w/her. It's a small blessing, I know/but it courts.] My Bach has played itself out/& I just oughta take these headphones off & go ta bed. You too, Heather. Get some sleep/& we'll wait for Sheila to weigh in w/some much sager (is that a word?) advice later.

My GOD, end the relationship! I am the one on the other side of it all. Having to deal with the adolescent( sorry to say that ) first real relationship. End it now!!! I am still trying to believe it will work out for me with my current, who still feels guilty about some shit about HIM. Move on. There's always another guy...trust me.

What may help is start learning how to enjoy life by your self. It may sound incredible, but you can be perfectly happy outside the context of a relationship. Do the things you really enjoy doing, and reflect on how it doesn't matter if your alone or not, those things still fulfill you. Sure there will be times when you might think "this would be so much better if he were here" but then you have to say to yourself "but it's really just me who can experience my own life, so i should make the most of it while I'm here." don't wait until your old to figure this out. Do it now and save your self further grief. Oh and R.C., some men go through exactly the same thing, but just the ones who haven't traded their emotions away for those shiny new chrome hubcaps. Hell, I was screwed up for a damn year over a 2-week relationship! (Just when I fell in love/ she broke it off and told me she was in recovery form a two-year relationship). I got better, most everyone else does too.

damn. if i knew becoming a man involved murder and circle jerks i would've never moved out of my mom's house.

thanks everyone feel free to remind me often

heather, i know you didn't ask me, but... it's been just about 10 months (well, ok, 9 months and 23 days) since i lost the love of this life. in retrospect, i think the one think i would have told myself then what i know now is gather up all your hope and all your courage and all your self-respect and just walk away. and don't look back. because if he loved you like he should, you wouldn't be going through this. so don't make it harder on yourself by agonizing (easier said than done). they say it just takes time. well, it definitely takes longer than 9 months and 23 days. so you might want to start as soon as possible. good luck. stay strong.

Slash his tires. Drink lots of VODKA. Fuck your brains out with strangers. Get really skinny. I'm not kidding, this works.