and it's really frustrating

I've never failed, but I've taken a very very long time once or twice. Kinda starts to chafe. ;>

that's very honest of you, pamela.

Maybe your husband doesn,t know what to do to make you feel good,maybe he just puts it in and gets his rocks off.I never hd an orgasm with my first husband,ooking back,it was his problem not mine.

Pamela, Can you do it by yourself? I know this may seem a little "Sassy-mag-ish", but if you can't do it yourself , your lover will not be able to do it for you. When you do, TELL HIM what to do, show him. Do it in such a way as not to insult his ego but be rather erotic about it. You must do this TODAY! Orgasm is next to nirvana and if you can't do it, you are missing out on so much. Frankly, J and anyone else, if a woman doesn't get off in sex, I think she has no one to blame but herself for not asking for it or communicating with her lover in such as way as to achieve it. Guys are up front about how they want to do it, why shouldn't you? Sex is all about trading off. *Get* yours, multiple times, and then let him *get* his. You may find when he is is *getting* his, you may *get* yours a few more times. Keep your eyes on the prize Pamela. In such a day and age when sexuality is so rampant, it's an injustice that a women cannot achieve such a primal, natural and necessary thing for her own sexuality.

to start off with, you should disassociate penetration and orgasm. first learn how to come, then later, if you want, worry about how the first can facilitate the latter. try it by yourself or with a friend, but realize that it may require a lot of mental concentration. it never works for me if I'm thinking about the day or work or anything. you can't just go through the motions. it won't work.

Uhhhhmm.. yeah. Pam, what I'd suggest is possibly the two of you masturbating together, to get you eased in. There may be something that's holding you back without your realization, like getting over turned on, which is usually the case for me, and when you get overly turned on it's really hard to reach orgasm because your really swollen and it kind of covers and gets in the way of your clit and is just plain is difficult. So what you might want to try is have him massage your breasts or something of the neighbordhood while you frig yourself to orgasm a couple times. Maybe do this a couple times as well, as in on other occasions, and then let him fuck you. Your body will most likely get into it's groove and be ready for an orgasm. And you definately don't want to get nervous about trying to orgasm as well, not when it's difficult as it is, so try and relax as much as possible, and let that orgasm sneak up on ya. If that doesn't work, you might want to try other sexual positions. There's plenty of sites with the kama sutra and a plethora of ideas.

I was refering to Josie's comment by the way, I have no idea in how that would help Pamela at all, being that it's sassy-mag-ish.

I see, I didn't mean to imply any pressure, no no. That will definitely be retroactive. I suppose I am blessed. I come really easy. I am just shocked to hear of women who can't achieve it. I started exploring my body when I was rather young, so I was having orgasms before I ever had sex. I suppose if some girls are raised in a sexually negative environment they may never explore and learn their bodies. My parents were the hippie types so they were very up front about sex. Masturbating together can be a good thing. But if there will be insecurity issues or any kind of embarrassment it may be better to do it alone. But if you do do it together, you may be suprised at how well he will pay attention to your every move.

I was kind of being saracastic, this whole conversation feels like it is coming out of a Sassy magazine.

I liked sassy magazine.

I can't stand Cosmo anymore, it's so drama. It's like they set the standards for women to be raging with desires of being fucked a lot, finding the best diet, best sex position, how to please your man, having an amount of interest in stars, and what's up Gucci's sleave. God, there's so much more to life than just that, but I guess that isn't what the readers realize, and maybe some do, and read it anyways for good amusement. I don't know what did it, but I was reading a Spin magazine with highlights of someones intelligent philosophy, which isn't always going to be great, but this time it was, and then I read Cosmo, and it was too much culture shock for me. Not only do I see the same thing every month, but they're always easy to turn on someone they admired months ahead.

Have you tried fucking a goat? chicken? horse? etc. Farm animals make great lovers!

orgasms are dumb. you make dumb faces, dumb noises and big dumb messes. you're better off concentrating on other, more important things like keeping the house clean and perfecting your lasagna.

If you can,t have an orgasm with someone,why would you want to waste your time cleaning their house and cooking?Better to spend your frustrated time playing with yourself.Oh,Josie,I never had an orgasm with my first husband cause I married him for all the wrong reasons,and I didn,t even like him,much less love him.I was just young,and real stupid,and hardheaded.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought there was a difference between having an orgasm and just "comming". According to the Sunday Night Sex Show, while men Usually cum, they really don't have orgasms every time. Maybe you guys just don't realize it.

i think there's a scene in "manhattan" in which woody allen is in a group of women somewhere. they are talking about orgasms. one of them says, sheepishly: "i had my first orgasm last week, but my doctor says it was the wrong kind." woody allen says: "the wrong kind? i've never had the wrong kind. my worst one was right on the money."

As far as I know Gee, men can learn to control their orgasms with Kama Sutra, to the point that the feel like they are coming, yet they don't ejaculate. Also, "coming" and "orgasms" are one in the same, why confuse or blur the matter?

Tantric or tantra yoga,check it out.

Does anyone else know if they're the same thing? I think they're not, but I'm willing to be swayed. I know it's stupid, but I'd like to know.

are you a virgin?

I think you are splitting hairs Gee, when one says they are *coming* they are indeed having an orgasm. I have never heard of anyone mean anything else when they say that.

I believe the confusion is over the difference between orgasm and ejaculation. More later... I'm swamped and I gotta bail, but any amateur sexologist can take over from here.

When men cum it can mean both. When women come, it seems to me to generally mean an orgasm. I haven't had a real orgasm since the last time I had sex. I've cum a lot since then, however. So there appears to be a difference for me, anyway.

Thank you Semillama. Oh, and thanks to the people who disagreed with me too, I guess. Yes! Yes, I am a virgin! Don't you people read any of my notes? No, I'm not a virgin. What do you think?

i think that you haven't been paying attention. at least not during sex.

Change of subject: Gee, looking at the times when you post, I'm wondering not about your social life but if you ever sleep. What time zone are you in?

back on the subject, lets take a survey of who HASN'T orgasmed.....this is really important people. Take out your legal pads and have a seat. Close the door, this is very sensitive.......this issue must be addressed immediately. It's ok to be a virgin, but you should be able to diddle yourself happily before you expect a guy to do it. Unless of course you are a strict catholic.........."no sperm is a bad sperm"

My sperm are positively wicked, they go out and shove around old people and take away their lollipops.

welcome back patrick, but what in god's name makes you think that people who haven't had orgasms would tell you? especially with all of the disparaging comments about that issue around here? jeez, people. have a little subtlety. this is why i told pamela she was brave in the first place.

i dunno, peeps are declaring their virginity and all i figure what the hell...but i didn't think of it that way.......i bet you make a real good "better half" for that there boy of yours. you remind me of nico witha comment like that. she thinks of shit that seems to totally pass me by...

i sure do try. dave might disagree with some of that, though.

Don't be mean Swine. At least, try not to be mean. There was nothing wrong with my question. butthead. I keep odd sleeping habits Rhia. Up till recently our hotwater heater was broken and I had to take a shower at about four o'clock in the morning. It's fixed now, but I'm still abnormal. Probably always will be.

Patrick, I loved that movie, Monty Python, Life of Brian. The catholic bit was by far the best, especially the sex education class. God it's cold tonight....

I get jealous when swine is mean to other people.

since you asked, i've had a total of six, maybe seven, orgasms in a five-year sexual history. i haven't figured out what the trick is yet. it's one of those things. please, lecture me. nice to meet you.

hey hydrozoa, you live in the seattle area?

i'm thinking that hydrozoa is agatha's sister. she's probably sniffing the place out to try to figure out if the thomas boy is a dangerous serial killer or just a mild-mannered recluse. of course i could be wrong. in any case, here's my advice: avoid the wood chipper, ignore the tortured moaning from the closet, and don't sit too close to the air conditioner.

and the noxious fumes from the beavers ass

my sister doesn't have a computer, has virtually no interest in computers, and would never come up with a name like hydrazoa. good guess, though. i'm pretty sure mark will have the air conditioner off by december. however, if it becomes a problem, we'll just trundle on over to your house, swine. i know you wouldn't mind.

hydrozoa, for the uninformed, is currently surpassing chlamydia as the white-trash STD of choice.

I think you guys are teasing me with your lowercase first letter names.

i am a lower case type of guy, that's all, and i didn't know how to do it before.

1. i'm on capitol hill. you folks are local? 2. my sister couldn't use a computer if she tried. 3. i'd rather my cunt were infected with chlamydia than jellyfish any day of the week. 4. hot damn.

i used to live in seattle. downtown, next to the convention center. then on the corner of eighth and olive. and then up on the hill, a couple blocks away from group health. hated it.

why? where did you go?

too wet. too pale. too seattle. went back to the NYC metro. the pacific northwest would never work for me. i am the beast from the east. and still unsettled, at that. spent the last few hours walking around manhattan meaning to visit some people, but i realized i really wasn't in the mood to talk to any of those people who would be around to visit. so i walked and walked and walked. 50 city blocks i walked. like 50 days and 50 nights. 50 shards of glass inbedded in my broken feet. listened to that cd 50 times. thought about 50 different pains in my head, pains in my bones, pains in my ass. 50 days of being a recluse. 50 ways to leave my lover. 50 places i'd rather be. 50 different flavors of me i'd rather be. $50 i could spend in the savoy, getting sloppy at the bar while listening to bluesmoke jazz and mindlessly hitting on monica. 50 states i'd like to leave behind. 50 ways to tear myself apart and put myself back together again. 50. 50. fifty. walked up to 50th and broadway, got in a cab, and went home. i have to go back to seattle sometime and get the rest of my shit.

are you better off being miserable there than here? need i ask?

pffffffft. without question.

you know what's funny about people in seattle? they're hard and crunchy on the outside, but their insides are soft, squishy, and run like undercooked eggs. what the fuck is up with that?

I live in portland now but went to uw and have lots of friends who live on capitol hill, in ravenna. I like the pacific northwest because here you don't have to try hard.

i lived in seattle for eight years, now i live in olympia. maybe we know each other.

i didn't know we were hard and crunchy on the outside. everyone i know is god-damned tree hugger who smiles on his brother. the spare changers make a veritable killing here. it's an industry. ecch. portland.

I used to hug trees when I was a little kid.

tree huggers are crunchy on the outside and just plain drippy in general.

what the hell are you doing awake, swine?

being hostile. i can't sleep while i'm in the midst of trauma.

"traum" means dream. you must be asleep to experience it, technically. why, it would never occur to me, when feeling hostile, to come here and do anything about it. what a great idea, mr. swine.

it's dream in german, but it's akshully a greek word meaning "wound." bleed on me when, when you're not strong and i'll be your friend, i'll help you carry on 'cause it won't be long, till i need somebody to bleed on.

shrimp on me, when you're not prawn and i'll be your sea, i'll help you float on 'cause we all need somebody to be prawn.

trauma = dream = wound. Wow. I really have to ask for a dictionary of word origins for christmas.

and in norway the word for marriage is the word for poison so i've been told they have few words, relatively, and some interesting overlaps

in central american spanish the word for "handcuffs" is "wives."

vagina means "sword sheath" in latin.

I didn't have one orgasm this weekend. Pretty sad when your hand won't even sleep with you. Ok, and so... I know I'm slow and all... but hydrozoa.. are you on Capitol Hill in D.C., or is there another Capitol Hill out west?

there's a capitol hill in seattle. supposedly seattle is built on seven hills, just like rome supposedly is. las esposas.

If any women out there arn't getting orgasms on a regular basis, then I say your deprived and it's not your fault!! You deserve orgasms...what you need is some Scottish Loving!! Come see me some time and I'll soon sort you out with THE orgasm of your life!!

Louis L'Amour said that the Apaches had no word for love.

ok, andy. you payin'?

Mahir?

yeah, no shit. mahir would have to pay me a lot more than andy would. at least andy can speak english. (and everyone knows that english is the language standard for excellence.)

Of course. When someone talks dirty to you, you want to know what he's saying, right?

actually, no...not fo rme anyway.... nico has a minor and french ans studied at the sorbonne. sometimes she talks dirty to me in french. I have no clue what she is saying to me, but damn!... her voice, inflection and body language get me going......

"ans" means "years" in french. how many years did she study, then? you're damned right, rhiannon.

"****~*~~~*****::::***:~~~~::::***** :::://~~~~~~~*****//////////***/////:: **///:::_____----___---____----____*****::"

That was just a disgusting display! P.S. Thanks, Cyst.

she was at the Sorbonne for 6 mos and studied here as well, she got a minor in French language so she speaks rather fluently,

fuck the french.

whats your last name?

it's german, hoss. it's not pronounced the way you're thinking.

"Fuck the French" He did. And he seems to have enjoyed it.

i fucked the "french-speaking"

I stand corrected. (And if you have, don't tell me)

I can't reach orgasm by myself either... I am kind of depressed about it actually. I have some major problems. There is something wrong with me. My husband and I have tried EVERYTHING. Nothing works. When sex starts feeling good, something happes and it just stops feeling good. I don't know what to do. But whenever I ask someone I get the same answer; masturbate. I have done all that, but touching myself does nothing for me. Before my husband and I (he's the only man I've ever been with) started having sex, I used to get so horny. But once we started having sex I stopped getting all hot and bothered. I don't know what's wrong with me. Since my husband and I have gotten together I've gained 50 pounds. I really need to lose weight b/c I feel terrible being so overweight. I hate being so fat. You know, it just dawned on me. I think I'm just too lazy. I am too lazy to lose weight and I think that I am just too damn lazy to play with myself. I don't know, maybe that's just an excuse... I just need some fucking motivation! I need some energy. I planned to go for a jog tonight, but then it started raining which eventually turned into a torrential rainstorm. So there went my exercise. I can't seem to get into the whole weight room thing. It sucks my energy. I am so fat. Ugh. I feel fat. I just wish there were some magic pill that could make me like my old self again. I hate being like this. Anyway, I just want to have a friggin' orgasm. I hate playing with myself b/c I am a lazy ass, and I wish I could get horny again. I am sick of pretending. I want some good in my life. I need so much. I need to build up my self esteem or something again. I'm so weird...

I think you must be depressed about your weight gain.walk.work.diet it off,it will help your self.

I will post this before Lather does... 20 minutes a day of any kind of aerobic exercise will work wonders. I tried it, and it really helped me. He preaches this stuff like it's some kind of religion, and he has more detail. It pretty much switches your body over from fat-storing mode to fat-burning mode. And it is hard (I don't always stick to it myself and I'm starting to put the weight back on) especially at the beginning, but it is so worth it. You can just get a box and step onto it and off of it while you're watching tv and it makes a difference. Or run in place. Well, I'll let Lather proselytize at you (later tonight, he finally decided to catch up on sleep)

Oh, and RE: the orgasm thing, teach your husband to go down. Accept no excuses.

"self esteem or something" THIS IS KEY "20 minutes a day of any kind of aerobic exercise will work wonders" THIS IS ALSO KEY "teach your husband to go down" AND THIS IS THE GREATEST GIFT TO MAN SINCE THE 68 Chevelle and Hendrix

stick with regular exercise for about three months and you start feeling really bad when you don't exercise. Pamela, the key really is being more active. like Lucy says. But ...(and this is important) if you combine moderate wieght training with the aerobics, you might take off the fat quicker and keep it off longer. I don't know the references off hand, it was something i read while killing time when I worked at GNC, but some studies showed that women who combined weight training with moderate weight training succeeded not only at getting down to their desired body weight, but also were better able to keep the fat off three years later than a group of women who only did aerobic exercise. and, forget everything you heard about women bulking up with huge muscles when they weight train. You have to eat like a horse on order to do that. So, hopefully you will find some motivation there. or, go to http://www.bodyforlife.com for a better job than I can do.

listen to semillama, the man knows what he's talking about. i'm in the fat week of my monthly cycle (enormous, unsatiable appetite) and i usually gain a pound or two and then take off twice as much after i have my period. it's the aerobics for sure. and now that i'm weight training, my god, i can't even believe this is my body. i can have lots of orgasms just fine, btw. probably under 90 seconds with masturbation and usually within 5 minutes of any sort of sexual contact with another human. not to rub it in or anything, just a fact. you know, it's just like anything in life. it takes practice. get to know your body. push your limits.

it's not that simple for everyone. some people have a mental block against it. some people have loving partners, but have unresolved sexual issues from their past that are holding them back. i don't think it's just about health or practice or concentration. all of this is good advice, but sometimes these things don't work for everyone. this problem is extremely common, and sometimes counseling or sex therapy may be the right thing to help overcome it. people don't like to talk about sexual problems because they are afraid everyone will tell them that they are freaks or that there is something wrong with them. which isn't true. you are not alone, pam.

How you feel about yourself is key, and if you feel like you're overweight, that ain't gonna help. As far as the aerobics thing - you said you wanted to take a pill and get back to your old self, and that's kind of what aerobics does, if done right. But it's a big pill, it takes 20 min. to swallow, and you gotta jump up and down (or something else similarly active) for 20 minutes to get it to go down. The pill itself is inconsequential. Combining weight training is ok, you just have to do the aerobics first, kind of like a warm-up. What happens when you push yourself to moderate panting with your exercize is: your body is demanding oxygen in order to burn fat. If you don't exercise that long, then your body just burns sugar. If you stair-step, jog, bicycle, swim, or (my personal favorite) jump-rope for 20 min. then start in with the weights, your body is already burning oxygen and fat, and will continue to do so while you work on muscle building. If you don't believe me, check this: I'm only 5'7", and I was up to 217 lbs when I decided I really had to do something. I spent 4 months pushing the limits of this aerobics thing, and lost 50 lbs. I stablized at 165 just to make sure I could, and then later lost another 15 lbs, to get down to 150. Now days I keep my weight between 150-160 and I feel good. You'd be amazed at the things it can help with. I started out trying to find a way to combat migraines, but it helped my digestion, I get colds less (basically never, now), I come to orgasm more easily, and peak higher. Hey, it's all good! :) Anyway, as to accepting no excuse for oral, Lucy, may I remind you: You did! Hehehehee (only for so long though, and it was valid.)

Ahem... I did not accept excuses. I waited for an event that I knew would happen. There's a difference.

diet also helps a great deal. whatever you do, pam, don't eat that fat-free, lite, aspartame-laden crap. eat things that occur in nature and things that have easly traceable orgins to nature and you'll be fine. red meat is ok, dairy is ok, as long as you don't binge. i keep losing and gaining fifty pounds, and i'm about ten pounds up from normal right now because my school schedule and income don't allow me to eat good stuff. i eat fast, cheap food and it shows. but, anyway, changing my diet is always what reduces my weight, every time. i would eat protein and carbs in the morning (never starch--something like eggs and cereal), something well-rounded for lunch (like a sandwich or a fresh burrito or teriyaki), strictly protein before i went to sleep (good ol' red meat), and fruit throughout the day. worked like a charm.

and whatever you do, don't eat grilled cheese and lucky charms for 3 weeks straight... beliii-iive me, it seems like a good idea at first, but it will just make you really hate both of them after a while.

hydrozoa- carbs...starch = same thing, no? does it depend on the processing?

starches are carbs, but not all carbs are starches. you don't wanna eat kick-start your day with starches 'cos it will screw up the way your body processes what you eat. that's what i've read, anyway. it seems to be true.

so, My abs are feeling a lot better now after that pull or whatever it was acouple weeks back, but I am holding off until after t-day for getting back on track...i figure why start right before a holiday that will totally derail your program before it gets going?

Hmm I wish I knew what else I could say Pam. If you start to notice yourself getting turned off, let him know, start doing something kinky right there, like have him tie you up to a chair, or tie him up to a chair. Washington people are very wet and sloshy. My college friend is a tree hugger. There was a demonstration type deal at Evergreen that said Earth First! all over it, the story of Julia Butterfly and such, and what we can do. I had only mentioned that I didn't think much would be accomplished if they kept the demonstration here and not in other public places and I think she went off the handle. "What are you trying to say? That nothing will be done??" "No, what I'm trying to say is that they are trying to recruit, and this isn't the greatest place for that." "What?? I don't see that." I had to point out all the earth first logos to her for her to finally get the point. "If they want to recruit, I say they go downtown, or something.." but I'm not into that.. I'm more amused by drawing little amoebas and breasts on rainy steamed up windows than hugging trees.

If you really want to lose weight, try using intravenous methamphetamines on a regular basis. You'll lose weight and have more energy. Best of all, it's much easier to stick to this than one of those fad diets that say stuff like "eat things that occur in nature and things that have easly traceable orgins to nature and you'll be fine." Yeah, right! Although, I have to agree with hydrozoa that Red Meat is okay! "Jesus is just alright with me."

And would these methamphetamines be obtained at JENNY CRANK weight loss centers?

Dexedrine - lose your weight, your teeth, and have a really clean house.

heh! you guys are funny! i'm not being sarcastic.

stop eating red meat and you'll turn into a shinveling pansy.

sniveling, even.

What? Not being sarcastic? How dare you! I kind of like that word "shinveling". Here's my proposed definition: Having sex where the man is standing up, and the woman is wrapped around him like she is shinning up a pole. "She was shinveling me like a logger climbing a pine tree, I tell you!"

I like that.

Nice. Maybe we should start a 'new sexual terms" thread, starting with shinveling...

I wish someone would shinvel me... = ( I am really depressed about this whole Orgasm thing. It just frustrates me to no end that I have not been able to have one. My husband doesn't even try to get me there anymore. He used to. There isn't anymore foreplay. He doesn't ask if it feels good anymore. He doesn't seem to care about what I need anymore. I guess that's about right. We've been together for 2 and a half years. Been married for 4 months. Now whenever we have sex I just feel used afterwards. The only thing I get out of sex is my husbands satisfaction. So I'm good at getting other people off, just not myself. He falls alseep now. He doesn't even notice that I am upset. He just drifts off into his sugar plum dreams. I feels awful. I feel so empty inside right now... I think I am just upset. I had a very bad day. It has just gotten me very down. I'll write more later when I feel better.

Maybe you don,t really love your husband,I don,t know Pam,you worry me,this is just not right.Maybe you should get a vibrator,maybe it,s something physical,see if you can have on on your own,if you get my drift.

this is a problem Pam, I am sure you know that.....I think you are depressed, and I know my saying this kind of thing may not help, but it needs to be addressed, ya think? I think you are caught in a vicious circle, take one thing at a time, start by talking to your husband, expressing your fears, your worries, make him sit down and shut up.....and LISTEN, don't overload him otherwise he may tend to flee emotionally (and physically) try reconnect with him...otherwise...I think what will happen next is you will develope a sense of resentment and then you will stop having sex all together, then he will probably cheat, this seems to be the cycle in most marriages. women withold sex out of resentment, the man then strays, all the while he had no clue to his wife's concerns, and if he did he ignored them and is being a selfish piggy....talk with him, tell him, start a new, play, get naked and just sit indian style and touch each other, don't let him in so fast, don't give in, he has to work for you, you most likely do for him, so now it's his turn, give him chewing gum, build up those oral muscles, especially the tongue......you have to repair this now Pamela otherwise I foresee a downward spiral....hope all works out!

You guys are right. J -- I do love my husband very much, but I think that I was starting to resent him (like Patrick said). I work very hard at being the best sexual experience he has ever had. I want to be the best b/c I don't want him to regret marrying me. But I feel like he doesn't work hard for me. He know that I haven't been able to reach orgasm, and it upsets him. He has never had this problem in the past. I think part of the problem is I am more focused on pleasuring him than getting off myself. I love Brad very much. I am a worrier though. I worry too much. I think too much. My brain is constantly buzzing and almost never quiet. I mean, I don't hear voices or anything like that, but I am always thinking of something. I have a hard time letting go of anything. I am pretty sure that the problem for the most part is me. I have been through lots of counseling before Brad and I got together and I had (and still have) lots of problems. I need to go to counselling but right now is not a good time. We're in the process of buying a house and a new car. Money is the tightest it has ever been. I wish I could just stop stressing out and worrying so much. I wish my husband would make love to me with as much focus on me that I put on him. Maybe I should go talk to him right now...

Pam,you remind me of that song "she can,t let go and she can,t relax"you are thinking when you should just blank out.

"I wish my husband would make love to me with as much focus on me that I put on him." TELL HIM! "I have a hard time letting go of anything" THIS IS KEY!

You guys suck for blaming Pamela instead of her lackluster incompetent husband. Why does she have to do ALL the work? Why doesn't he give enough of a damn to try to please her?

I have been reading your messages and it's all very intresting to me, because I have been having sex for almost two years and I still havn't reached orgams!!! I enjoy sex very much, but I havn't gotten there yet!!!

wow. i was hellbent on the dots back then. heh. remember _____ ? _____ fucking asshole. love ______