So, does anyone know if he asked her?

i didn't. *sigh* besides, she gets drunk every friday night and i'm not sure i want to spend the rest of my life with someone like that.

If she only gets drunk on friday nights, then it's not so bad... get drunk too - could be fun. Also, if she's young, getting drunk might just be something to do... so if you offer her something else to do, she might go for it and drop the booze. Also, dating doesn't have to be forever. Methinks you're just finding excuses not to ask so as not to get hurt... but I suppose that's as good a reason as any. Akin to what I would do!

Boy am I freakish, but darnit if you think she doesn't like you than keep your mouth shut. Some fellow in one of my classes felt it totally nessesary (sp?) to ceonfess his feelings for me the other day and I couldn't have felt more uncomfterble. I hadn't given him any "signs" that I liked him in that way, so as far as I know he had no real reason to think I'd be happy to hear about his feelings. If he'd given me flowers I only would have felt worse. You're totally entitled to your own feelings, but not if you're gonna be making someone else feel uncomfterble. If you don't have any reason to think she digs you, then hush up. On the other hand, a compleat lack of "signs" never stopped me from telling boys I've liked that I liked them, again and again and again. pft. People are fickle. And where is our "Guy", two months later?

Ask Her. Its been almost a year from when you posted. Suck it up, and GO!!!! Just cause she drinks every friday doesn't mean anything, besides if she likes you (assuming you start seeing each other)she will most likly be open to change, as should anyone in a relationship.

not bloody likely.

I need to see a photo of guy and a photo of the girl before I can tell him whether he has a chance.

so it's all about how you look?

find me one person who is totally unaffected by physical qualities. odds are they are: 1. ugly 2. dishonest

actually, odds are that they are: 1. blind 2. deaf 3. no sense of taste or smell 4. and are quadruple amputees.

oh yeah. i always get that mixed up.

yes yes of course. knowing full well that i am completely and totally affected by how someone looks. but for someone to say 'show me two photos...' is silly unless one of the people is something to an extreme, and even then. also i guess i'm sometimes sad that so much depends on looks. and think, how would it be to cope with life if i were ugly? things are hard enough as it is.

i wonder more how i would cope with life if i were stupid. but then, stupidity may have its blessings.

wow, that did sound... just slap me

I'd say my best looking boyfriends were the ones who were the biggest losers. It's as if there is an attractiveness quotient that once someone is beyond they cut back on other useful qualities like being smart, good in bed, and fun. Of course this doesn't apply to me.

obviously you never dated me. <sniff>

Ahhh, if she only knew.....

looks aren't everything. in fact, I'm kind of prejudiced against really attractive men, because I figure they'll be assholes. but. a friend of mine has this theory that the picked-on, conventionally unattractive, socially retarded geeks are the ones who tend to really go for the knockouts. he says this because he was one, and he said that all those teenage nights spent not dating and instead just thinking about (and looking at pictures of?) girls really sort of honed his taste for beautiful women. so anyway. he didn't really have a chance with the beauties back home, but here in cash-strapped ukraine, he pretty much has his pick of the litter, which is full of desperate milla jovovich (croatian father, ukrainian mother, born in odessa, an ethnic russian city technically in ukraine now) types. god, I forget what a slimeball my friend is until I explain him to others. this is totally normal behavior here in ukraine, grownup western men chasing poverty-ridden teenage babes. I know this game is also played out in america, but there at least there's some subtlety and self-deception. here people make arrangements with translators for that first date with their mail-order brides. but anyway, your average american web board-posting nerd probably won't have much success wooing a young non-geek party girl. this is why I ask to see photos. I feel I could give a much more informed opinion if I had some idea who we were talking about here. please forgive me for basing my posts on the assumption that looks do matter. I know it's not the sort of thing that one should talk about openly, and that beauty is a myth (I read the book too) and all, but I'm out here living in the real world and can't help but notice what goes on.

this is a quote from someone here: >also i guess i'm sometimes sad that so much >depends on looks. and think, how would it be to >cope with life if i were ugly? things are hard >enough as it is. I used to feel this way too, back in my early college "don't call me a 'girl'" days. men should only like women because they are smart and interesting, and looks shouldn't matter, blah blah blah. but why even contemplate this ideal world? because, I noticed, even the liberal college guys who wrote about social justice and the class struggle and burned flags and protested the gulf war, they still pursued only the hottest of the granola chicks. this is generally how the world works. most guys this catherine zeta-jones is hot. most guys think kathy bates is not. (yes yes yes, some guys like short plump blondes and other guys are into tall, dark-haired chicks, and I'm sure there are even guys who are hot for barbara bush, too, I admit that I am generalizing.) life's too short to feel sorry for ugly people. let the ugly guys go out with the ugly girls. or let them buy pretty, young, slender brides from ukraine. whatever. no web board postings or congressional bills or magazine articles are going to change anyone's minds about this.

Cyst, out of curiousity...are there incredibly hot Ukrainian men waiting for their circumstances to be exploited? Because, you know, mail order's not just for Brides anymore.

there are some pretty cute young ukrainian guys, but they don't seem to take as good care of their teeth as the devushky do. and there just don't seem to be the same numbers of rich old divorced women coming over here hunting for desperately poor and conventionally attractive slavic spouses. don't know why -- because they'd look like fools back home?

I haven't gone after the locals much -- pretty much all the straight ukrainian men my age are already married with kids and all. I just go west to get laid. or import my dates.

more: an excerpt from what someone wrote about a local expat cover band show: "Bleeding Lisa? Sounds like a snuff film to me." "No. Speeding Lisa. It's a new band, all expats, and everyone will be there." My friends were dubious. "Do we really want to hang around a bunch of chunky American broads?"

Cyst said: < I used to feel this way too, back in my early college "don't call me a 'girl'" days. men should only like women because they are smart and and interesting, and looks shouldn't matter, blah blah blah. but why even contemplate this ideal world?> Most females are still girls -- emotionally & socially -- during their college years. I haven't been a girl since I was 20/but that's just my experience. And frankly/I wdn't go back to being 20 for all the $$ on earth. There's really nothing wrong w/the term girl -- unless you're applying it to a woman 30+. Or worse/she's applying it to herself in an effort to identify or be identified w/a younger group. But maybe lying abt yr age is just an American female habit. And I still think men shd like & be attracted to women because of qualities beyond their looks. Becuz cute is the 1st thing to go. It may get you a 1st date/but if a woman hasn't got some intelligence & wit & perspectives she didn't learn in a fashion magazine to back up her looks/she loses in the long run. Sure/she may get to be a trophy wife for a few years. But guys who are all into a woman's looks generally have no qualms abt discarding their current woman for a younger better-looking one. And there is ALWAYS someone younger & better-looking right around the corner. I still contemplate & work towards a world where looks aren't the primary measure of value for a woman/becuz that is the kind of world I want for my god-daughters. Becuz it wd break my heart if they grew up to be the kind of women who can't even run out to the mailbox without putting make-up on. Becuz as Black girls/I know they will never meet the American standard of beauty -- no matter how tall or thin they are/no matter how long their hair is. They will always be out-of-the-loop/& it is up to me & the other women around them to teach them how to see the beauty in themselves & draw it out & make it shine. But it is also up to us to teach them that investing in their mind & spirit will provide more of a long-term benefit in their lives than investing in their appearance will. It amazes me how many women hook up w/a rich man & get him to spend tens of thousands of dollars on plastic surgery for themselves /rather than getting him to pay to send them to college. They cd attend a pretty good school for the cost of a boob job/nose job/liposuction & collagen lip injections. And the degree wd be so much more valuabl;e to them down the road. But they'd rather invest in their faces & bodies. Becuz for them/their looks are how they make their living -- or find someone to provide a living for them. Which is one step above being a hooker in my book. But not nearly as honest. <this is generally how the world works. most guys this catherine zeta-jones is hot. most guys think kathy bates is not.> The world works that way becuz too many of us -- men & women -- buy into that crap. If we change our value system/if we stpo being so damn superficial/then the world will have to follow-suit. And it's funny -- last I heard/Kathy Bates was very happily married. Zeta-Jones has a history (from her time working in Europe before she did "Zorro") of getting involved w/much older married men/& inevitably ending up alone. And Kathy Bates has given some damn good performances over the course of her career. Frankly/I haven't seen any great acting come out of Zeta-Jones yet. She chooses roles that turn on her looks & sexuality/like a million other young actresses. Bates will always have a acting career/becuz she's got chops. What will Zeta-Jones be doing once she hits 35?

Zeta-Jones is WELSH Enough said.

Don't women - in broad terms and allowing for idiosyncracies and tastes - find Brad Pitt hot and John Goodman not? The reason men seem to prefer pretty, stupid women over smart ones, pretty or no, is to avoid having to put up with petty, useless overanalysis. Women say it's because they're sensitive and complex, but it isn't. What does my reacting viscerally to some movie actress or centerfold or whatever really have to do with anything? I used to date a girl in high school who kept one wall of her room plastered with pictures of male models she'd cut out of magazines. It worried me a little when I first saw it, but I didn't rush off to all of my guy friends and rant about how women set impossible standards for men or whatever.

<swoon> What a guy! </swoon>

I also don't understand why women think that works.

Chad: I didn't think Brad Pit was really hot until I saw him in "Meet Joe Black" -- which was basically just a mediatation on Brad Pit's screen presence. I've never seen a male get such a Hollywood starlet treatement in terms of incredibly falttering lighting & great camera angles like that before! (Except maybe for Tom Cruise). But I've read a couple of interviews w/Pit & he's a dud. Or maybe be was just being cagey w/the press. I dunno. But the guy had nothing of interest to say abt ANYthing. So I'd never want to go out w/him. But if Chris Rock were single/I'd jump at the chance. Not becuz he's fine -- he looks like a little black scarecrow. But he's a funny muthafucker w/an interesting perspective on American culture. Ditto for Ving Rhames (who is single again) & he's not fine. But I've seen him in a couple of interviews & he was very humble abt his success in the business & how the older males in his neighborhood kept him out of trouble when he was a shorty/which enabled him to get where he is today. And I'd be all over him becuz he seems to have a lot of character & common sense. Or Don Cheadle. He's a terrific actor who knows he'll probably never be a big star/becuz he hasn't got Denzel's looks. Neither does Will Smith -- but he chose to skip developing his acting skills (he was wonderful in 'Where the Day Takes You") & go for the big-budget action -adventure roles. And now he's huge. But whenever Cheadle's on the screen/you can't stop watching him. He was great in "Devil in a Blue Dress" & that HBO Brat Pack biopick. Becuz Cheadle's got major talent. And nothing's as sexy as talent/IMO. Plus he's very articulate /so we wd never be at a loss for conversation. My point is that I don't walk into a room & make a bee line for the most gorgeous guy. I look around to see whose talking to whom/who appears to be carrying on an interesting conversation. Or who's surrounded by 3 of 4 other folks who are ROFL at what he has to say. THAT'S the guy I'm going to try & get to know. Why can't men be the same way towards us?

First of all, I'm in a bad mood this afternoon. Second, this is my thing: I'm a quadraplegic, have been for 18 years. I can still move my arms, but can't move my fingers; I type with a stylus. When I was first in the chair, in rehab, there was more or less a concerted effort by doctors, therapists and family never to let me dwell on being paralyzed. If I made even the smallest reference to my feelings about my condition, I met with a hail of "you can't go around complaining" or words to that effect." It was though they thought that if I ever really did think about it, I wouldn't be able to go on. So, I went at it full throttle and never ever said anything about it; a habit for which I was highly praised and called "brave" even, though I'm not. And will other people I knew in wheelchairs became activists and what not (ADA and all that) I went the other route and cut myself off from the whole handicapped community. I didn't expect the world to change for me, and I even felt a revulsion about even asking. So I kept my own counsel, and if a pocket of acceptance came along - either a person or a place - then that was fine. Now after all this time and I have as much independence as I will ever have, I look back on all of that and feel cheated. As though I had been robbed of something. Being paralyzed - all the bad and good - was and is a part of me, and I think if I had been allowed a scream and a moan at the beginning, I wouldn't have had to wait 18 years to be happy. This is going on too long. Anyway, a friend of mine, who is a para, sent me here because it was "good for a chuckle." All these long, ranting threads about weight loss and men and all the other shit brought out all of those feelings. If I offended any women, it's only because I was angry. I don't see why you should feel so free to complain when I never could. I am jealous of able-bodied people: you can pretty much whine about anything and nobody really cares because it's so trivial. When you have a real problem, nobody wants to hear from you. Women don't exactly run to me at parties, by the way. Nobody knows you when you're down and out.

Just weighing in here with a short one: John Goodman, or John Turturro, or Forrest Whittaker, or a really long list of people whose performances I have enjoyed and whose looks intrigue me (it's much harder to intrigue me than it is to have me scope face, ass, package, and dismiss you from thought). Ving Rames (am I spelling this right?) is a total hottie, actually. I totally dig on good bone structure and I generally like a (ahem) bulkier man. Like Gary Farmer, yum. Anyway.

blah blah blah. just wanted to voice my thoughts on this matter. thanks for listening. and chad is probably more hardcore than brad pitt could ever dream to be. fuck the world. i'm gonna go take my pretty ass over to the keyboards and make some music.

Chad: If the people around you didn't let you vent abt being pissed off becuz you're a para/I'm sorry for that. But you can certainly bitch abt it here if you like. We all whine away whenever the mood strikes us. While I don't regard being a woman as a handicap/I wish women cd be valued for something more meaningful & lasting than our looks. But nobody seems to believe that will ever change/so... If women don't approach you in public/it might be beuz they have the usual apprehensions abt the handicapped. You'll have to go out of yr way to be sociable & break the ice. For me/seeing someone in a wheelchair is no different than seeing someone w/a really big, weird-looking dog standing next to them. I wdn't hesitate to ask "What kind of dog is that?" But I know it wd be rude of me to ask "What brand of wheelchair is that?" or "What type of injury did you suffer?" But a wheelchair is so in-yr-face/I can't help being curious abt it. Yet it's not cool to inquire abt someone's disabilities. And I'd feel phony just striking up a conversation abt the weather or how long the movie line is/when what I'm really wondering is "Damn -- what happened to him?" It depends tho'. If the guy looks friendly & he has on a cool tie or a really interesting shirt/I might comment on that & see where it leads. But if he looks pensive or angry or tired/I'm not gonna bother him. But if the man makes a joke abt his chair/or does a 360 or something/then I'd prolly feel confident enuf to rap to him. It just gets so screwy for me becuz I know a person in a wheelcahir doesn't want to be defined by their handicap. Yet for me/that's the thing that makes them stand out in the 1st place. But maybe I'm just fucked-up for thinking that... Do you mind explaining how you learned to type w/a stylus when yr fingers don't move? And can you draw or paint as well?

Give 'em hell, Chad.

hey, I just discovered an eternal truth. some got it better than you and some got it worse.

rc says: "But maybe lying abt yr age is just an American female habit." god. when I think about women lying about their age, I think of blanche dubois. why lie? it doesn't change the fact of the matter, and anyone who is really and truly interested in your answer will likely end up finding out the truth anyway. as if getting older were something to be ashamed of. I can't help when I was born. "And I still think men shd like & be attracted to women because of qualities beyond their looks." yes. and I think most are. I think most men would soon get bored of a woman who was attractive but had nothing else going for her. but for most men, looks are part of the package when looking for a mate or whatever. women too, generally to a lesser extent (and personal wealth to a greater extent, generally). why try to pretend that men don't care about the way women look or wish for a "value system" in which they didn't? I think the best game plan for a woman looking for a lifetime mate is to find a really nice guy. they are out there; I know a few. my father's one. when they say they'll love the woman forever, they mean it. they won't stray. I just haven't been able to get myself to really fall for any of these nice guys yet. I hope to someday. I like to go out with the less-commitment-minded ones because I haven't been serious yet. and it's fun to go out with someone really beautiful for a while. from my experience, I can tell early on a lot of which men are not lifetime mate material. duh, one warning sign is that you started going out with him while he was married to another woman. girlfriend, you cannot complain to me later when this man dumps you for the bimbo at the wal-mart. I mean, you can, but next time, watch out, ok? I think I'm getting off the point, if there ever was one. "And there is ALWAYS someone younger & better-looking right around the corner." yes. and the nice guy might give her an appreciative glance, but he won't go chasing her down the street. "I still contemplate & work towards a world where looks aren't the primary measure of value for a woman/becuz that is the kind of world I want for my god-daughters." I don't know that looks are the primary measure of value for a woman. I mean, they're not for me. I don't pick my chick friends based on their sex appeal. they're not the primary measure of value to the nice guy (though the nice guy isn't blind, either), the ones your goddaughters should be looking out for as lifetime mates. but they are for a lot of people, and that's just the way the world works. these guys who come over here looking for ukrainian brides they can't even talk to are not worth having, so I don't care much about that. "Becuz as Black girls/I know they will never meet the American standard of beauty -- no matter how tall or thin they are/no matter how long their hair is. They will always be out-of-the-loop/& it is up to me & the other women around them to teach them how to see the beauty in themselves & draw it out & make it shine." good plan. I've noticed that the guys worth a damn are generally attracted to self-confident women. one of the best things you can teach your goddaughters is that it's better to be alone than to be with a jerk. zillions of women, including some of my best friends, do not know this. or they know it theoretically but do not live it. my-friend-whose-husband-left-her-for-the-wal-mart-bimbo sometimes talks to me as if it's some accident that she ends up with the guys who treat her like shit and I never do. it's because she's never been alone because she'd rather settle for an alcoholic who hits her or a phony christian who cheats on her than to go home to an empty apartment. people can tell when other people are willing to be victims, and some people prey on this. if you teach your goddaughters right (my friend's mother was in lots of abusive relationships), chances are they won't get hooked up with lying pieces of shit. I could be wrong on this, but I think if a woman carries the right attitude, it may even get to the point where the shitty guys don't even make any attempts with her. I've been told that before they got to know me people assumed I was a stuck-up bitch (what are the words? "aloof," "cool," "reserved," whatever), but now the guys who do approach me all end up being fairly interesting. like, before I left america, I got picked up in a bakery by this guy who randomly started talking to me about the zapatistas. that was pretty charming. another guy saw that I was getting hassled in the bank because my card wasn't working and I couldn't withdraw $80, so he just loaned me $80 and gave me his business card. the pieces of shit that my friend goes out with never even talk to me. I am way the fuck too far off the point now.

i just want you all to know that i finally sent sorabji a photo of me, so he could see how i LOOK, and was unceremoniously dumped immediately. you figure out if i am kidding, or not.

let me see the photo and I'll tell you what I think.

Me too.

you were dating sorabji?

Ok, I'd like to weigh in on women who I think are hot for the words that have come out of their mouths alone: Ani DiFranco, PJ Harvey, Janeane Garafalo, Jody Foster, kd lang, Kathy Acker, and most all the women at sorabji.com (and I'm not kidding - some great minds here). There are others but my poor brain is doing that thing where I can remember what they look like but not their names...) as far as the whole attractive guy/dumbass thing goes, did anyone read that George interview with Matthew McConaughey, where he said the US should be a dictatorship? What a freakin' moron.

Nate, would your friend sorabji do something so unkind to you as date your Mom?

she just left. About a month ago a woman came into the shop to have some keys made. She is in her late 30's, I would guess; she has a washed-out quality - pale and faded; she even smells of old clothes and, inexplicably, butter. I made the keys and we started talking. She asked me how I got in a wheelchair. The only thing I don't like about answering that question, especially to someone I just met, is that it kind of goes nowhere. I often say something different every time like "car wreck" or "shot" if I want to be exciting. I told her something and she said sorry about that or whatever. She said she had just had a stroke. I said that I was sorry about that. She talked about some of the problems she's been having with Social Security and whatnot. She asked for my advice on that, but I really didn't have any. 3 or 4 days later she came back to the shop to have more keys made. She gave me a present: a ceramic tile with an angel on it mounted on a peice of wood. She had put a little sticker of a smiley face in each corner. On the back she wrote was her phone number and "call me if you ever want to talk." I said thank you for the gift, and she left. I never called her. She came by the shop at least once or twice a week after that, having keys made and talking about her life and whatnot. When she came into the shop today I could tell she had something on her mind. "I have a question I want to ask you, but I'm too embarrassed to ask," she said. She held up a napkin and said, "give me a pencil and I'll write it down." I gave her a pencil and a piece of paper. She wrote down her message, handed it to me, and walked over to a display case by the wall. It read: Don't be mad (drawing of two sad eyes) Can you have sex? I got a little worried. My first reaction was to say "no", as though that might discourage her. Then I thought that, if in fact she was attracted to me, a no answer might encourage her - make her feel that I needed someone even more. "Yes," I said. Trying to sound matter-of-fact. "Can you be...a father." "Tricky," I said, "but yes." She thought about this for a second and said, "so the woman would have to be on top, right?" "Yes," I said. She can be anywhere she wants, actually. She got even more embarassed and picked up her note from the counter and crumpled it. She said something about her stroke. "So you can get...aroused," she said after a pause. I began to regret answering any of those questions. I said, "Why do you want to know?" "Just curious. I wanted to know because of my stroke. Haven't you been ever been so curious about something that you just couldn't sleep at night until you knew?" "Yes, but it usually something like who played the Skipper on Gilligan's Island." She said she didn't know that. Then she said she had to go home and left. I don't know if I'm looking for advice on what to do about this woman, or if I'm just curious to hear your reactions.

Uh... I'd actually look up the name and phone numbers of some local support groups and stuff like that for people who've suffered strokes and have her get in touch with them. It says "hey, I'm a caring person" while at the same time saying "I am not an expert on sex and 'medical conditions' in general" and finally "If you want to have sex with me, you're going to have to ask me to have sex with you, so I can say yes or no to you." That's what I'd do. I'd also tell her how easy it was to find the information, to (a) empower her if she's just anxious and shit, or (b) let her know you see right through her if she's been using excuses to find out about your sexual availability.

Ohmygawd..... [Note: I am posting this assuming Rollstuhlfahrer = Chad.] <"Just curious. I wanted to know because of my stroke. Haven't you been ever been so curious about something that you just couldn't sleep at night until you knew?" "Yes, but it usually something like who played the Skipper on Gilligan's Island."> As soon as I finished ROFL/I wd've jumped behind yr chair & pushed you out the door & said "I am officially kidnapping you & taking you to lunch! Beucz that's the funniest thing I've heard all week. But it's only Tuesday/so you've got plenty of time to top yrself. Now/what do you feel like eating?" "And I don't mind yr wheelchair if you don't mind my cigarettes." Boom! That wd've been it -- the beginning of a cool new friendship. Becuz I canNOT resist a spontaneously funny guy. But I will admit that she seems a little too interested in how the other half fucks. Still/she seemed harmless enuf. Why on earth didn't you at least call her? Or more to the point: If she had looked like Claudia Shiffer (or insert-yr-favorite-hot-babe)/wd you have called her then? Was it her wan appearance & butter odor what turned you off? Or were you afraid she was a psycho? (Don't forget that people sometimes exhibit inappropriate behaviors after a stroke. Maybe she didn't realize how weird she was being...)

I didn't write that.

Okay. But I still wanna know...

I wrote it. First: Even though I wrote it as though it had just happened, it was actually something about 12 years ago when I was first in a wheelchair. It was written down in one of my old notebooks. At that time I had no idea what my life was going to be like, least of all my sex life. I was completley at a loss when she started asking me all of those personal questions. I didn't call her because I thought she was a very troubled woman - maybe not psycho, but a little unbalanced - I was a little afraid to get too far into things. In some ways she seemed like a child - one that acts on impulse and without really understanding what others felt. I'm also sure it had as much to do with fear and loneliness as it did with any physical effects of her stroke. I know it seems, to the good people here, that we would be kindred souls who could comfort each other or something; but that's not really the case. At that time the only way I could deal with my own situation was to push the hurt out of the way, so I definitely didn't know what to do with hers. It's like a man with no fingers going to a man with no hands for help. Incidentally, if I had been her the last thing I would have wanted would be referred to a counsellor. Another thing: no, I wouldn't have called her if she was a "babe" - definitely not if she were a troubled one who just had a stroke, but probably not one who was reasonably sound. Over the years I've come into my own pretty much and, without making any great claims, I'm not a bad looking wheelchair guy. I personally think that my being in a chair captures their imagination, or maybe just makes me seem more sensitive. Or it could be that I trigger a nurturing instinct. I think I also have a sexually non-threatening quality that appeals to a lot of women. (To any woman who reads this I'd like to say that some of the most lecherous guys I know are in a wheelchair, so be careful.) As far as I go, I am cautious and don't trust people easily and it takes me a long time really to get close to someone. I also find it hard to accept that someone might be attracted to me. I've turned down dates (and other offers) from attractive women because of this. I'm sure it's too much of an investment of one's time to try to get involved with me. So that's the story, R.C. Not too spontaneously funny, but I wanted to answer as fully as I could.

"I'm sure it's too much of an investment of one's time to try to get involved with me." Well, if you're sure/then I won't try to argue w/you...

"I'm sure it's too much of an investment of one's time to try to get involved with me." Well, if you're sure/then I won't try to argue w/you...

I didn't suggest counseling. I suggested a support group. All the most lecherous men I know are in wheelchairs. I used to work at the VA.

Damn, are y'all serious? Wheelchair lechs? I wd think as hard as it is for most wheelchiar-bound guys to get a date/they'd bend over backwards to treat a woman well...

i'm tired so i'm not sure how this relates but for some reason i thought of it: when i was waiting tables, the most demanding people who tried to act all impressive and that i tried very hard to please (at first,) gave absolutely the worst tips.

Ugh. The first thing I wrote was supposed to be a funny story. The second one I wrote because I thought people had taken it too seriously, so I wrote something serious and, at the end, an exaggeration of my worst qualities. Don't know why I thought that was a good idea. Maybe I was angry. I'm not particularly lecherous or - I swear - especially strapped for dates. And normally very nice.

Hey, man, I believe you on all counts. We do tend to collapse inwards of our own weight, little black holes of humour, sometimes.

Well, mine might have been the kind of gallows humor that might be lost on most. I suddenly felt I had to scramble to undo any wrong impressions - like being raw-nerved. I worry about what I call the "minority syllogism", which might go like this: I met a man in a wheelchair. He was raw-nerved. All people in chairs have raw nerves. And who did play the Skipper on Gilligan's Island?

i didn't read it that way. at all. on the subject of lecherous wheelchair men, there was this one guy who was in a wheelchair who used to hang out at the cafe i worked in. he was not your usual wheelchair fella, he had other problems as well. his speech was slurred and his skin had this odd, tightly stretched quality to it, almost as though it had been burned or something. i'm not sure what he was actually suffering from, but he was apparently in pain the majority of the time. unfortunately, he was a horrible, lecherous, devious man. he used to select young men to bring him up the stairs in the cafe so he could sit on the balcony. there was no wheelchair access, so his helper would be forced to hoist him up and carry him up the stairs. wheelchair perv, as we used to call him, would always get a huge, obscene erection. it was an awful thing to see. he also had one of those tubes in his larynx, and he would take it out and ask me to wash it out for him. i had to draw the line. i heard a rumor that he used to pay young men to come home and let him fondle them, etc. maybe cyst is familiar with the wheelchair perv. cyst? ring a bell?

When I was in rehab right after my accident - when I was a "fresh kill" - I remember that a lot of the male patients would indulge in what ranged from sarcastic sex joking to annoying or outright lecherous moves on the therapists and nurses. Some guys would have been assholes walking or not, others seemed to be dealing with things in an angry, aggressive way. At least one - who was really severely injured - figured if he'd never have a normal life, why be normal? About a year after all that I got a job at the genealogy dept of the local library. I worked for a man I can only remember as Dr. Dick. He had a Phd and was, in fact, named Dick. He was a round, officious guy who saw himself as the tsar of the genealogy dept. When one of us would see him coming, we would look up and say "incoming." He was also gay, and had a habit of just by accident running across one of the college guys who were stacking the shelves deep in remote parts of the labrynth of shelves. He would just chat them up a bit and flirt; it was a running joke. Then there was "Crazy Jerry," or something like that: one of the homeless guys who spent the day in the library. Most of the homeless would sit on one of the reading chairs and sometimes talk a with others or, if they read anything, always seemed to read books about WWII. Jerry was in his own world, and wandered around the place until someone sat him down. One day I was at a table making index cards of dead people; I saw Jerry pass by, emerging from behind one shelf and disappearing behind another. He had an erection poking out of his pants like a little, leather-brown garden snake. I wasn't sure what I was supposed to do. As I sat there he passed by the same way, going the other direction. He did this three times, looking like an arcade shooting gallery target with a hard-on. Finally I told the security guy and they escorted him off god knows where. Then one day Beth came in; she was researching her family tree. She always came over to me when she came in and for about 2 weeks I helped her with her research and just talk to her about anything. Then one day she asked if I wanted to go out and I thought "me?" and said "yes." We dated for about 3 years.

Alan Hale, Jr. played the Skipper on Gilligan's Island. Someone asked.

I don't remember the wheelchair perv. the only cafes I went to often were the old last exit and allegro. portland has a wheelchair asshole, john callahan. he's this paraplegic guy who tries to run people down and draws unfunny misogynistic comics for a few alternative weeklies. christ. the mice are back.

Callahan is a quad, not a para. The first cartoon of his I ever saw was on a postcard in a rack at an alternative bookstore. It had a picture of a bunch of cowboys - a posse - out in the desert sitting on their horses in front of an empty wheelchair. The caption read: "don't worry, he won't get far on foot." I thought it was the funniest thing I'd ever seen and bought it. That caption is also the title of his biography. I haven't read it. I ran across his website several months ago and signed myself up for the startled pig newsletter last month. In the first one I got he describes a dream he had where he's a cowboy riding on a horse and he has a dick so huge that he has to drape it over a pack horse along side of him. He is singing: "I've got sperms that jingle jangle jingle." The latter would've been funny to me when I was 12, the former is funny to me now. Linda Ellerby said, in defense of Callahan: "When we're standing at the gallows, as we all are, gallows humor makes sense." For me at least it has to do with a distrust of political correctness. A lot of people go around saying "we should all think this way" without particularly having to deal with it that much. I know there are people out there who think I'm a just a cripple and would rather sip the poison and grow immune than hide and be stricken when it happens. Mithridates, he died old.

hey! you quoted my favorite a.e. housman poem. I didn't think anyone else had read it. I don't think callahan is funny. I don't know if many newspapers that carry his stuff would think that his shock-value comics were worth running if he weren't quadriplegic. but I don't see why newspapers run half the crap cartoonists they do, so what do I know.

I find Callahan funny, but it's the humor that makes laugh when you know you really shouldn't be laughing at all, but you have to or go insane. I think that Callahan subscribes to the philosophy that the only thing that's funny is there is nothing to laugh at anymore. And Callahan is as msianthropic as he is mis- anything else. Everyone is a target, from his dad to nuns to Jesus to AA and especially himself. I read his bio and have a whole lot more respect for the guy. Callahan may be an asshole, but he lives in a world where that might be the best way of coping.

what are index cards of dead people?

This was back when people still used card-catalogs. It was my job to read through old books like about the history of the town of Laredo (published in 1892) and make a card for each person mentioned in the book and where I found it. Laborious, but I had a walkman. I also had to look through old newpaper obits. I once made a card for Bozo the Clown. My workday is over, and a slow one it was. I'm going for dinner and drinks. Malt does more than Milton can to justify God's ways to man. I think Houseman did more for me than Callahan did.

right on

"I've got sperms that jingle jangle jingle." That ALONE is worth the subscription price! I have never heard of Callahan til now. Will l someone PLEASE post the URL for his site? Never mind. Yahoo actually spit it out on the 1st try: http://www.callahanonline.com/ And altho' I am very P.C. in terms of giving folks the right to define themselves on their own terms (i.e. Black vs. Negro vs. those damn Niggers -- makes a big difference when you get to claim yr own nomenclature/yes?)/I have always believed that EVERY group has traits & habits that deserve to be lampooned. That's why I love Chris Rock.

Rsf...I don't think I've seen you posting to any other threads around here, have I? There's something slightly ironic in that... Spread yourself out a little more, man.

sometimes people post under different names. some folks around here change their names with almost every posting.

She's right, Gee. And, lord girl, it had only been two days. I've been posting here on and off since the beginning, and I just found that a little variety made it more interesting. I went 'plegic on this 'un after that "what kind of handicap would you have" thread. Which, incidentally, I found very interesting and a little surreal. I was disappointed more people didn't post. Looking back on this thread, I wish I'd done it a little differently. Tried to cram me of 12 years ago and me now into one thread, 'prolly. Aggie! Do you remember me talking about that deal we were doing with those enviromentalists to turn part of my family homestead land in Austin into a preserve? (This would be at least 1 1/2 years ago) After much arguing about water and land rights and surveying and resurveying the land, the deal went through. Met my lawyer cousin (who had been wrangling the deal) last night at a place called Manhattan's; he gave me all the papers and a 344 thou check made out, alas, to my mother. I gave it to her last night and she poured us both some wine, did a little waltz with the check, and said: "how does it feel to be the son of a woman of means?" And you sorabjyptians might be happy to know that somewhere in 290 acres of unincorporated land outside of Austin, TX is now safe for deer, foxes, coyotes, 'dillos, possums, turkeys, pheasants, and some rara avis called a yellow crested or bellied or throated warbler. 87 year old uncle: Why the hell are the envirmetasonsabitches always trying so save these birds? Hell, back during the depression we had to shoot and eat the damn things just stay alive! Me: You never did that. Uncle: Well, we might have. Times were tough.

RSF: CONGRATS, man! I never thought a person cd make $$ by getting their land designated a wildlife preserve. I assumed you had to donate yr land to the state in exchange for that kind of protection. But hoo-ray for you! Tell yr Mom to give you an advance on yr inheritance & go off & do something cool for yrself. I dunno/like tandem skydiving or something.

right on, rsf. is your mom going to spread the love, or what? (hope the pseudonym comment was kosher...)

Oh. I stand corrected. I really hate it when people change nicknames. I mean I really hate it. As if I don't get confused enough as it is!

chad is cool bcuz he tries to speak his mind ,and guy is gay bcuz he doesnt have the balls to say hello to a chick.

is this good advice for it? http://come.to/helpinpaws

Bloody spammer.

We have ways of dealing with your type. Cat, fetch the speculum, would you? It's on top of the wood stove.

I'll sedate him.

First of all you have to have some confidence in yourself, if you think that she doesnt like you then you wont even go up to her. Take a chance and ask her out. It's not as hard as it sounds.

it is, however, as hard as it looks. honest. touch it. see for yourself.

it is, however, as hard as it looks. honest. touch it. see for yourself.

So, you think Guy is still trying to figure out if he should ask her out after 5 years?

clearly not. Guy stated he didn't like that the girl got drunk every friday night. that was the clincher.

The Art of romance for me has always been a game, a game of numbers. Nothing more, nothing less. When I see a woman I'm attracted to, both mentally and physically, I then tell her that I find her quite attractive, both mentally and physically and that anytime she needs the company of the utmost in gentleman...to please give me a call. It's that easy! Tell her that...she'll like it! Just be sincere! Good Luck!!

Let me know how it works out. Geez, I forgot to put my addy here...how foolish of me! Mark

Mark, Mark, Mark. You ain't too good at the details, is ye?

Honesty is the best policy!!! :+)

the original question is 1998. 6 years... did you ever ask her? Is she still alcoholic? as there a white picket fence in the burbs? are there children? Is Guy still alive? i can't believe this conversation has gone on this long!!!

Sorry.....! Why is everyone so mean here? Man, you all need to see the light in things!!! Much love!

We're not mean. You're hypersensitive to what complete strangers on online message boards say. plus, as the Holy Droller himself said: "Fuck'em if they can't take a joke!"

Nice! Have a wonderfuld day!

I've never done this sort of thing before...you know, posting messages, so maybe I am sensitive. I'm sure I will become calus to this real soon. Thanks!

I have a feeling you're already calus. By the way, it's spelled "callous"

You see what I mean....a simple mistake in spelling and you have to be harsh. No sweetie, I'm quite soft, but thank you anyway. Have a wonderful day to you Antigone!!

You know what Antigone....my ass is a little CALUS (ha) from you rubbing it so much....feels good though....keep it up...AHHHHHHHH. feels real good.

OUCH! OUCH!

angel, it's obvious that you're posting under different names. We can see your IP address in the source of the page. Just post under one name. So, you tell me to have a wonderful day, then nine minutes later post wierd shit as "Calusbutt"? Are you sick?

Of course I am silly....anybody would know that. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. If you're going to be nasty, we can both play the game. I still want you to have a nice day..of course, cause I still want you to rub my ass...you're very good at it. You make my day! Smile :)

I want to dance, you fuckers!!

May I dance with you?

Antigone....is "dancingfool" really "angel" or not? I bet you can figure that one out, now can't ya...LOL! Have a wonderful day...love ya!!!

this is getting weird and manic fast.

if you keep writing schlock like "lol" in your posts we ask antigone to find out where you live and then we tell j and then you will be very sorry so stop

Why would you have someone come after me?

that was the best heather. lol. lol. lol. i want some J

I call shenanigans

Dancingfool and angel come from the same IP address, which has been the same for all of angel's posts and others. The IP has been the same across several days and is from a netblock (NET-67-162-128-0-1) used by Comcast in Colorado. It's not the typical IP that would be used for a proxy server, so I assume it's the static IP of a computer at the other end of a broadband connection. I hope you're running a firewall, especially since you're running Windows. I suggest you run windows update if you haven't done so in the past week and get the freshest security patches. (Lots of nasty virii going around.)

See, that's what's great about this site. You learn things you didn't really know about but is immensely helpful. View Antigone as your world wide web guardian angel, is how I would put it. An anal sex loving maniac guardian angel. I mean, you probably didn't know how vulnerable you are on the web. It takes all the fun out of pretending to be someone else, though.

That's what anonymous surfing is for. :)

And I am not a maniac.

a jackass?

I prefer "smarmy bastard"

I'm going to dance right up your ass,you fuckers!

wicked. I love ass dancing.

especially in the moonlight.

Well it's a marvelous night for a assdance With the stars down below in your butt A fantabulous night to make ass-prance While we gaze at some video smut

I luuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrv Buble(accent)!

I got three words for ya. GEEE HHHH BEEEEE

Hey sorabji,dunno if u asked that chick u liked afta but if u didnt u shud just go for it,im a chick n if a guy liked me n i didnt know well i would want to,maybe she likes u,but she doesnt wanna ask u because she might think u dont like her,u dont know how she feels untill u ask her,so just go for it,u think she'll say no anyways so if she does then its not gonna be so much of a let down.just ask her n see wot she says,ask her if she wanna go see a movie n hangout or something 1st if u dont wanna ask her like fully out. Good luk anyways lol.Cyas

please Tarin, make the effort to type properly. The internet will thank you for it. afta = AFTER u = YOU wot = WHAT luk = LUCK is it so difficult?

I really, really hate people who use wot. Its horrible. In fact, this guy who was once spading me used to text with me with 'Wot are you up to', and I think thats one of the reasons I never went out with him. Oh and he was a CRAP kisser.

spading.

Spading? Does that make moonit a hoe?

Digging?

no, you know, hanging round, phoning, etc etc. spading.

You and your foreign culture. (and candy)

lollies Tbone, LOLLIES. bloody hell, it would take me forever to educate you guys. I feel like Fez. I just had all my hair cut off - think elliot from scrubs style. The Pandyr is going to kill me.

hiiiiiiiiiiii bitch

i like this girl imet a few weeks ago,i fantasise about fucking her and get a big stiffy around her. but dont think she likes me. please help me!!!!!!!