so in the days i have had to myself i have realized many things. why it is spelled Xmas sometimes and what that means. that even the smartest boys don't know a thing about silverware. and that i am quite the witty one. now in fear of someone snatching away my great idea. i am asking two things. if any of you have received and email from me at any time. no matter what it said, please forward it to kymical23@hotmail.com. and secondly, what say you about starting a zine. i am trying to figure out how to do it. i am curious about the workings of the whole newsprint angle. anyone, anyone. oh yeah and who is willing to help me, sabotage the next season of real world, in New York? that is all. please send help soon, i can't get to sleep.

I'd be delighted to sabotage real world with you, and to start a zine.

i was thinking of starting one, myself, but i'll be happy to help. it'll be easier. if you can get the phone number, i can make long distance collect calls. lots of long distance collect calls.

Do you want it to be a real zine, or an online zine? Because an online zine might be easier with all of these people living all over the place...but far be it from me to stifle your creative newsprint desiring genius.

please define zine?

(maga) zine.

i thought so, buyt i had this flowing through my head: zines, zines everywhere there's signs do this dont do that cant you read the zines?

I work in the newspaper business - as a features layout guy. That means I know my way around QuarkExpress, Photoshop, Freehand and Illustrator. I also know how to rig an emergency transmission-linkage fix at the bottom of a mountain pass. I make pretty mean Jumbalaya too. Ask me about publishing... I dare you.

wavy do you kern on the first date? wink

Nah, I just play with their leading nudge

you guys recall the old zine Rollerderby? trace it's pronounced like magazine, just take away the "maga" part ..... i could help with distro, assuming you are charging a cover for it....if not...well...

Wavy, you're no fun.

so, wavy, tell me.... how are your descenders in relation to your x height? hee hee!

Patrick, yes I know. I was taking the joke a step further.....................................

i've got a couple of books about zines that i checked out from the library weeks ago..."the girls guide to taking over the world" and "the book of zines".

ooo, that taormino book is good, pez. i have been making zines on and off since i was 16. do you ever go to reading frenzy?

Factsheet 5 is a zine with a listing of all zines.......

factsheet five ceased publishing in late 97. or did it start up again?

i've never actually seen a zine, but i read about them and they sound sortof cool...sometimes i pick up the different free newspapers that they have around town...

Mavis, I'd say I'm 9 on 9.5 or so. Guess I should head over to that large penis support group thread... Actually, I sing mid- to high-tenor. I'm 6 foot 1, weigh 190 and my equipment, though not astounding, is proportionate. Actually, I've kerned on the first date, and played with a girl's leading on the second, but that was back in my randy highschool days. Nowadays, I'm just happy to find an intellegent, single girl to chat with. Living in a high-concentration Mormon town kinda kills the dating scene. Still celibate and single, Dave...

wavy i am just trying to have some typographer nerd fun with you. where do you live again? idaho?

i didn't know that mavis.....damn...is Maximum Rock and Roll still in pub? pez you local record store (i.e. NOT corporate chain stores) should have a handful of zines

Utah?

the boy lives in Montana right? Fires and such?

Idaho Falls, Idaho. welcome to white-bread town. i just started, then deleted a rant about the town. maybe in another thread. My stomach is rumbling, so I'll go take care of that.

reading frenzy is portland's "alternative press emporium" they carry over 200 zine titles, and very cute classy erotica and have art shows and funny little gifts..... wavy is idaho falls on the way to missoula from spokane?

what in the HELL? crank.com is now a sex site. used to be the home of one of the greatest ever. If you can find a mirror of it somewhere, read every word. Crank by Jeff Koyen.

OK, For us elderly visitors (37). What the fuck is "Kern"?

fb-no, it's not an age thing, it'a a typograhy nerd thing: http://www.filmotype.com/kern.html

Kern is a typographic term for the spacing between letters when setting type. Leading is the term for the vertical spacing between rows of type - taken from the old days when strips of lead between the rows of hot-type. Mavis - Missoula is about 6 hours north of here, so it depends on what you mean by "on the way" If you just want to make a lunch date, then stand me up, I'd understand completely. :P

no no wavy! i won't stand you up.... i am moving in october and sem and i are going to stop in missoula.....if you are on the way, perhaps i will re route myself.

I'm a letterpress printer. If you want to know _anything_ about archaic typographic terms, you know who to come too. And I definently kern on the first date.

well, i was just at barnes and noble...the saleperson didn't even know what a zine is. i frequent sam goody, camelot and the wherehouse enough to know they don't have zines. i think i'll do a tuesday portland excursion after anthropology class. the last time i was in portland was the day i met jon and it was after midnight. before that, it was my final performance with the metropolitan youth symphony and my lesbian encounter. yikes. i'm definatly going to do a tuesday portland excursion. does powell's have any zines (the big one)?

I had a Kiwi friend that would always tell people he was a stripper when they asked what the did for a living. They'd look his scrawny, broken-nosed self up and down and then he'd tell them he stripped in negatives at a print shop.

*laugh*

im almost positive powells might have local and national zines....forget barnes and noble....and furthermore, it's not like its a cataloged section....most zines are music or leftist political based...most are free, and local.....usually on the floor around your local record hole...by the magazine section. however with the advent of the internet , id be willing to bet that zines have dwindled considerably. me and abuddy did two issues in high school...shit i forget the silly name we had....it was all teen punker angst,show reviews and album reviews....

pez reading frenzy is right across the street from powells, on sw oak street, behind rocco's they are open until 7, powell's has a few sort of crappy zines, yes. http://www.readingfrenzy.com/

*official tone* according to my database, she is correct, and the last time i spoke with them 6/19/98 they "are mostly magazines"

what?

i work for a publisher, i have an extensive database of bookstores, adult shops, college book stores, video stores and newsstands nationwide and canada....i was just confirming what you said by referencing my database....

by the way ...i jsut came across a record...... a place in Indianapolis called "Fat Dick's Gay Emporium" the owner's name is richard that rocks!! every city should have one of these places, with a big neon sign

No way, I wonder if that was there before or after SouthPark's Big Gay Al's Big Gay Animal Farm episode?

In Alaska, somewhere way up on the road to Fairbanks, there's a bar/motel called "Skinny Dick's Halfway Inn" There's a nightclub in Anchorage called the Fly-by-Night club where the owner, Mr. Whitekeys, does a cool slideshow/musical production every night along with his band. it's a great show - lots of political satire, spam references and a duct-tape song. One of the songs has mention of Skinny Dick's Halfway Inn and he makes the audience shout it out every time it comes up. If you're ever in Anchorage, you gotta go see a show at the Fly-by-Night. It's a truely unique experience.

I just bought a subscription to nerve.

Jesus. So everyone here works in publishing? You guys are nuts. And I'm really sad to have missed the development of this thread. Ok, then. here's my embarrasing question to show how out of touch I am with the good and real world: is bOING bOING still in print? It was a great 'zine. and 'zine doesn't really carry all the same connotations as magazine, does it? Has anyone here ever seen "The happy mutant handbook?" There's a good bit on 'zining. Some local bookstores will carry zines. best bet is to order online or from catalogs... if FF5 is really gone away... *wipes away tears* try the underground press? I think that's what it's called... http://www.undergroundpress.org/ yeah. that's it. Good place to start. Did I whine to y'all about getting moved from production / layout to *gag* marketing? MARKETING. god damn. And speaking of Idaho: how far is Idaho Falls from, say... Sand Point? anywhere near? (I'll be out that direction in a few months; always looking for local typographers to bug. heh.)

Why the hell are you going to your roomates home town?

oh. wavy. you use Quark? What do you see Quark having over Pagemaker? I've done both newspapers and currently books in Pagemaker; I've tried Quark here, on books, and never seen anything great enough to encourage me to make the switch. Typesetters: get laid right. Patrick: I don't know about there being less 'zines. For me, at least, 'Zining is about making something real; it's the lure of the printed word, if that's not too cheesy sounding. I think that's why many people do it. And any print zines gone away have most likely been replaced by twice that many internet based 'zines, I'd wager.

No, we don't actually. I'm probably the only one here who has done anything worthy of being called "typesetting" in the true sense. All you computer nerds are merely lesser beings. None of you have handset books in lead type, none of you have painstakingly letterspaced said books, and certainly none of you have actually printed said books...I've ingested enough lead already that it's amazing I still function normally. Or maybe that's the problem....

Yeah, well... we get our own set of frustrations. Try finding out 2 hours before deadline that Adobe Type Manager Deluxe (DELUXE! getting ripped off in style!) has decided that Optima-Oblique and Optima-Roman are the same font. Though I suppose you have a point in that we don't actually put the pretty little letters down. Progress, friends, is a wonderful thing. More, better ways to screw up! Rah! Patrick, who do you work for, if I may ask? I can see it now... Sorabji Press! Kids, we're gonna be famous. *laugh* Isolde, on Idaho: Sort of a joint Xmas / birthday party. Quinn's b-day is the day before mine, and their family has agreed to hold off Christmas until we get there. Meet the family, that sorta thing. Sun seems rather eager to show me all her old haunts. Thinking about dragging her to Chico for Xmas proper.

Woah. That's a little scary. I don't think I'd wat to go to Sandpoint, even if my lady begged me. But whatever. Your'e a bolder man than I, I suppose. Oh, let me tell you, I have scrwed up royally sometimes. Once I set three chapters backwards. THREE! Do you have any idea how much wasted labour that was? Omigod.

Pigmaker is a bastard. I love quark, and freehand. I'm in the production side of an advertising agency.

i looked at that website, mavis...a few days ago, i was thinking of doing a zine called "juggling shoes" but since there's one called "traveling shoes" that might not be such a good idear. i just got an email from my friend amy. maybe she'll want to go to that store too...gosh, i haven't seen any of my schoolfriends in ages...except when selling them stuff, of course...

YAY! I hate pigmaker too! RAH QUARK!! RAH!

isolde, what is your name at nerve? isolde? i'm not a paying member, so i dont access the boards, but i do drop in chat from time to time....and my web page is hosted by them....its great place Tom, I work for (parent company) Liberation Publications, publishers of Out and The Advocate magazines, we also publish books, ALyson Publications, we also have 3 gay erotic magazines we publish, i currently work for that division. We are the largest exclusively g/l/bi/tg publishing co in the world. the Advocate even made it in the Guiness book of records believe it or not. there, web stalkers, you may now come and stalk me.

I used Pagemaker at the last newspaper I worked at - a tiny little weekly in Eagle River, Alaska. I started on Pagemaker in school, so it was great. We used Pagemaker and Corel (draw and paint) on PCs there. Towards the end of my stint, I grabbed a demo copy of Photoshop to play with. Here, I use Quark, Photoshop and Freehand. I think that both Quark and Pagemaker have their strengths/weaknesses. I still wonder how Quark got into the position that is is today because some of the ways it does things is SOOOO Bass-Akwards. I've been composing a running angry letter to the head honchos at Quark since the day I started working here.I know it'll be ignored, but I want to shake my tiny fist at them. As for Freehand/Illustrator... I really like the way some of the tools in Freehand are implemented, I just wish they would swap some of their keyboard shortcuts to industry standards (Hear that QUARK?!) Plus, in freehand, when you swap tools via keyboard, it pauses about a half-second longer than any of the other programs... which is the difference between moving the page, and grabbing some chunk and tossing off the pasteboard. <--very frustrating when working on deadline. (phew... that was a mouthfull)

Isolde, I would love to learn to hand-set type. My old boss, who started in the newspaper business as a typesetter in the hot-type days, told me about a time when one of his co-workers was carrying a tray of completed type - an entire page's worth. He walked through a doorway, caught his foot and dumped the whole tray. He looked down, walked over and got his coat, and left for the day.

Re Adobe & Quark: http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB20000831S0017

Ahahahaha! There's a quote in there, toward the end, that says Quark is dependable and stable. Obviously they've never had Quark eat its own preferences on a regular basis, or suddenly decide that its got a clipboard object too large for the page, therefore not letting you save a document... or many others. Plus, they point out that Quark has many third-party plugins. Yes, they do, but many of them are features that should already be in the damn program! *deep breath* I'm going to lunch.

Heh. my only issue with that article, really, is that it looks hopeful about InDesign. My boss (being one of those people who LOVES to buy computer stuff. You put it on a CD, he'll shell out $500 for it. The guy has 0(zero) impulse buying control) bought InDesign 1.ass when it first hit the shelf; then he bought 1.5.ass when that came out. We've used the damned thing maybe 10 times. Okay, so, if you're all typographers, and you all have computers: I'm looking for a PC version of Adobe's PS font called "Weiss." Got a client who insists on using Weiss, and it's one of the 10 PS fonts we don't have around here. So. You are all now obliged to send me fonts. Suckers.

Good Luck on that Weiss, I have hunted and hunted for that damn thing, but have not found it. I constantly got errors working with PDF's and re-writing them when someone used Weiss as a font. If you have Adobe Acrobat 4.0 (not the reader), then you can buy a CD Rom from Adobe with that font on it.

Why don't you call Coloured Horse and ask them? Quark rules. Yes, I too have been forced to cry by dumping entire trays of fuckifng type all over the floor. That's two days work to clean up. Shit. My name at nerve is wenched.

You've got to admit there's some beauty in a product that will easily integrate with two industry-standard programs (Illustrator and Photoshop) but I may just be talking through my ass since I haven't actually used InDesign, so I have no idea how well it works with the aforementioned programs. I've never heard of that font. Anyone have job openings where they are? I'm looking for new and interesting challenges. I'm tired of newspaper publishing.

InDesign--we bought that right before I left, I never got to play with it. No judgements there. I don't know enough about it.

isolde, did you know that i share a letterpress studio with about six others? it's called community print. if you ever get back to the west coast for a visit, come check it out.

SWEET! YES! I'm so excited that I'm not the only one. I can't believe you didn't mention it before. Damn. I would have been down there faster than you can say "penis."

do you know nikki mcclure?

Wavy, wanna move to New Zealand?

Penis. that's all I have to say. And for all teh ones arguing Quark v. Pagemaker, try doing a 1000-page document solely in Word. GAAAH!!!

*laugh*

Isolde, you rock...but don't freaking just post "laugh" pretty please. This isn't Yahoo Chat's Sorabji Love Nuggets Trading Post room, ya know.

no. and you can't make me. whyfore in word? it's impossible to set type in word, so why even try? mesoconfused.

I was laughing at Sem, expressing a sentiment of pure joy after a long, hard, incredibly awful day. So eat my dick.

I'll move to New Zealand. Will they take a 28-yr old layout guy with 5 years of exp? If so, will they help with moving expenses? Gaah!

How long does it take to establish citizenship in New Zealand? And do they allow same sex marriages, so I can marry you, moonit?

As long as it takes you to bonk a sheep.

.......and.....how long exactly would that be cat......you're worrying me....

Oh, it usually takes me about three hours all time to drive to the sheep, pick the evening's lover, do the deed, get home, and shower...

oh man.... i so don't want to get into the sheepshagging issue. My uncle is a reporter and he had to do a story on a couple and a cow and the videotape they made.... that was scary enough. Isolde, not yet, but they will eventually I bet - i found the new zealand immigration site The Right Choice At the moment we are having some sort of amensty on overstayers, but they are going to start cracking down on them in six months or something.

Hrm. So I need to move fast?

yes, i know nikki. she's one of my studio mates, and she also has her own studio in the same building. small fucking world, no? i am by no means a letterpress expert, but i like it a lot. your special mail art treat has some letterpress in it, which is why it's taking so damn long.

incidentally, does anyone want to buy a broken palm pilot? feh.

Yay letterpess treat! I'm so excited! *wiggles* And no, I don't. Thanks for asking...

Well the NZIS site states that you have to be of good character. I guess that mean none of us will be moving anytime soon.

Shit. Goddamnit. Fuck. I'm screwed. I'll never be moonit's wife now!

gosh usually topics i start don't get this out of control! so i don't know about all of the other stuff up there. but i would be willing to make a web zine, or even an e-mail zine. but you see while i love to share my ideas, i am in it for the money. let's face facts, i don't like to work. and thinking isn't that much work for me, and i put out some really good ideas. so i think i should write them down, dirtribute, and watch the money roll in. as far as the real world is concerned, i am looking for someone to help me, get on the show. it all starts there. have to be on the show in order to make things happen.

money money money... one of my friends from highschool wants me to work for her. she's involved in a company that will allow her to retire in a year and she'll never have to work again, unless the company falls apart. she's only 18. i'm sorta leery...what sort of company has it's members retire after one year to live a life of leisure?

money money money I have to buy a $60 inhaler, because my asthma just got helluv worse. I was using the albuterol so much that when I came in to get a new prescription, I was shaking. I still am now, actually, it's really hard to type. It's like being cold all the time. My hands have these spasms and my heart beats really fast because I have all this crap in my system. The steroids are supposed to make me better. Yay. Steroids in my eyes, steroids in my lungs. Soon, you will be able to cut me open and drink of the steroid goodness.

Pez: what sorta company is it? what goods / services do they provide? Kym: Tough noogie. 'zines don't make money. As soon as they do, you get accused of having sold out. Sorry. Other than that, I'm totally in. And who knows: we might just start a media empire. How do we get information as far as applying for The Real World? I think we should ALL apply, and see what happens.

Maybe we should...check out the website.

Casting info for Road Rules / Real World The Real World and Road Rules Casting Bunim/Murray Productions 6007 Sepulveda Blvd. Van Nuys, CA 91411 If you are between the ages of 18 and 24, just send us a 5 to 10-minute videotape showing us why you'd be the perfect person for either show. Make sure we can see and hear you clearly. Mark the tape with your name, age, address and phone number. The deadline is Sept. 30th ...so get to it... and have fun!! http://www.bunim-murray.com/casting2001/index.html gotta be a young'un. who else is under 24? um... I know Pez, Kym, and I are in that age range. Shit. Gotta go find a video camera. Patrick, you're closest to Van Nuys. Go find a handgun and hold alla these Bunim/Murray dweebs hostage 'til we get there. Thanks.

My inhaler ended up being $131. Now I'm even more bitter. I need to find someone who works for a pharmecy who can smuggle these damn things out to me. Not only that, but my spacer whistles when I inhale too fast.

Isolde, that sucks! Do you not have health insurance or is it just absurdly not covered? A friend of mine has the same troubles. Though it is prob of no real consolation you have my sympathies! I'm surprised there is no internet 'order your prescriptions over the border' thing. That would seem like a logical renegade use of the internet.

By the way, do you think they card you for The Real World? Nah, I'd give away my age since I'd have no patience left at my age.

Problem is, are you gonna trust a website selling cut-rate inhalers from Jamaica? There's no way to know if it's safe except to try it out, and that could be fatal.

Point well taken, I suppose you need a reliable friend in another country instead. One who can fake the symptoms of your illness and has lots of free time.

Next time I'm in Mexico,I'll look for you Isolde,wish I had known before,I was just there a couple of weeks ago.I am lucky enough to have good health benefits via my s/o,but it totally sucks that someone has to pay $60.00 for an inhaler,and my mother has it just as bad.That is one of the biggest concerns I have,our health care and S.S.

i'll have to find a camcorder. and act like a goofball. but first i have dishes to wash, a room to clean, laundry to do, work i'm schedueled for, and bowling with friends. then tomorrow i have class. yea! maybe we can design our own "real world" with major characters that stay in most of the time, and other people that come and go as they please. ooh! ooh! idea! "the real world b&b!"

I'll hafta hook up a camera and make a tape too, we can completely infiltrate the real world, then knock them on their asses by actually doing "real" things and having lives instead of arguing over who didn't put the peanut butter away. Agatha's studio rules. I need one. I still need to hang "WOOf" on my wall.

I don't think I actually know *anyone* with a video camera. Shit. that can't be right. Tbone: we'll all end up arguing over serious things, like who left the computer connected all night. No. Even the Real World isn't cruel enough to make us fight over one phone line.

Isoide, Tell me what you are using and email your address. My son has asthma and I get so many free samples from the drug reps that we end up throwing expired one's away.

Figbar has a camera, yo. It's asthmacort. Expensive shit. They took me off the Maxair because I was taking 20-25 hits per day. Bad. Very bad. Someone, somewhere, is playing Halcyon. I can hear them.

damn it...must buy a camera or get my hands on one soon. damn damn damn,..... in other news, i reconciled with chaos, of my band (chaos and the addiction.) maybe there will be future things to report.

Isolde I can't believe that cost that much. My friend Jules has asthma and she would spend $10 every month or so on it. I think thats about $20US.

Well, he may be on albuterol, which is a rescue inhaler. This is steroids which I have to take three times a day, since I was using the rescue inhaler so much that it was bad for me. See the post about shaking. I also had to a buy a spacer, and those fuckers are expensive. Also, healthcare in the US sucks, and my insurance didn't cover it, and neither will Uncle Sam.

They're having this discussion about Medicare right now, how elderly people forgo food to get prescriptions. But they don't look at younger people. I know a lot of asthmatics, for example, who will forgo buying an inahler so they can eat and then find themselves in the hospital or something. Some try to get them "black market" through daughters and sons of doctors who get free samples...

Thats really really scary. Here if you earn under so many thou per year you get a community services card, which means cheaper visits to doctors and perscriptions and stuff like that. But also, a lot of medication is partly covered by the government, so instead of paying $12 like I used to for some weird pill i was on, now I only pay $3. *Please note prices quoted are in New Zealand dollars. ; )

It is scary. I'm all for socialized healthcare. Even if I'd had to pay $30, which is how much I pay for a standard inhaler, I would have been happy...but $130. Ridculous.

I get really pissed at all the lies teh mjor candidates are slinging at each other about each others healthcare plan. I think that if you removed all references to a candidate from teh text of either one's attack ads, no one would be able to tell from which camp it originated.

I have asthma, and all my doctors visits (related to asthma) are free. Our local doctors group has a scheme that they fully fund all asthma visits in an effort to manage it better. You shouldn't get to the point where you have to take your reliever that often - it could be fatal. I have two inhalers, one steroid (preventer type) which I take twice a day or more often if I get a cold, and a reliever I use as required when I'm wheezy or coughing. They cost about NZ$10-15 each, and last about a year (I have pretty mild asthma). With Community services card (for low income people) they would cost $3 each. Current exchange rate is about 40c US to our dollar (inflation is going to go through the roof next year when the prices start going up). I think our area is one of the few with the free visits for asthma treatment. Also accident cover is provided through ACC - no fault insurance funded by employers, vehicle registration, etc. Doesn't cover full costs, but does pay for all hospital care in public hospitals and about 75% of doctor / physio / etc. Come bring your dollars to NZ and double your money!

This isnt to say that our healthcare system isnt perfect however. We have a three year waiting list for some operations if you go public... but hey, our country can't be clean, green and completely perfect. heh

This isnt to say that our healthcare system isnt perfect however. We have a three year waiting list for some operations if you go public... but hey, our country can't be clean, green and completely perfect. heh