I'm 43, girlfriend of 5 years is 41. We're "engaged" times one year. She wants to "get on with it" (meaning marriage) and I'm hesitant because at 43 and with a sizeable "portfolio" I don't want want to get married without a pre-nupt. She replied "sleep with your money then, I'm not signing any pre-nuptual agreement, that would be Planning to fail!" I have a home that's paid for and she says it's not big enough - she needs more closet space. She would pay half the note when and if we get a bigger place But she backed out of paying her part of the down payment saying "You've got a lot more marbles that me, you take care of the down payment." . . . When I met her she was twelve grand in debt and floating credit cards. She has since gone back to work in sales at her Dod's business, salary wise she's making around 60 grand, had saved some money but instead of keeping it solvent for the down-payment, she invested it for her retirement - she had not started a 'nest egg' before and at 40 became concerned about Her' golden years. I love her and I think that she sincerely loves me yet I am hesitant to enter into any contract that, as friends of mine would say, "has a 50/50 chance of failing" without a pre-nuptual. It isn't just That. . . . .the woman is very strong-willed, which I admire, but she can be very pushy and self-righteous, (she snores) and voices that she doesn't like many of my friends' wives And a lot of my friends (some that I've had since childhood and are conseidered to be my brothers). Folks, any advice?

It sounds like a problem marriage to me.

after reading the first 5 sentences....gold digger after reaading the whole thing.......gold digger. if she loves you, she will sign the prenup.PERIOD. Otherwise, cover your ass man!!!! DO NOT GET MARRIED WITHOUT THE PRENUP, it sounds like she could leave you high and dry in a time in your life when you don't need that kinda of shit. This type of behavior seems very common, and it enrages me...... i think things could be crystal if you asked her this. "Do you love me?" yes "Would you love me all the same if i had half the money i do?" maybe she stumbles here, if not, if she *says yes, then say "...then whats the problem with the prenup?" here is the part were she falls on her ass. if you love someone, and want to spend the rest of your life with them, the bank account should never come up in conversation......

Patrick, right on. You should put out a shingle and counsel people.

dougie fresh, that would be a sad day when people actually took me seriously

just that i thought you nailed mr. indecisive's post on the head.

if you're asking random people on the internet whether you should get married, the answer is no.

Okay/if this is a joke (& it must be) then I'll play along... IAH: Whatever you do/know this: Patrick adores his wife. And she's a stone fox. (There are pictures. I've seen them. Trust me. Women aren't as hesitant to compliment another woman on her looks as you men are.) And they're very happy. And he certainly did not make her sign a prenup before they married. What's true is true: Just as you can't make peace while preparing for war/you cannnot make a marriage while preparing for a divorce. Anyone who knows me 'round these parts will tell you that I'm terribly old-fashioned & a hopeful romantic abt stuff like this. But I also know that there are lots of sharks out there/of both sexes. To ask if she wd love you if you were poor is just dumb. Just as dumb as a beautiful woman asking a man if he wd still love her if she average-looking. The bottom line is/when you meet someone/you fall in love w/them for *all* their attriubites. You were loaded when she met you/so obviously the rich you is the only you she knows. (But why on earth wd you pay off 12k of credit card debt for someone who wasn't already yr wife? Or did she take of that herself?) If you were poor/she might have fallen for you just as easily. (Not all of us are abt the Benjamins.) But considering the circles the monied (or the pretending-to-be-monied) class move in/you might not ever have met her if you were poor. Bottom line: If you genuinely love AND trust someone/the thought of a prepnup doesn't even enter into yr head. Becuz all that you have/she wd share in. And vice versa. Why shd it be any other way in a marriage? Which is *not* to be confused w/saying "All that I have is yours!" which only a lunatic wd say. If you wanna give yr stuff away/find a worthy charity! You certainly needn't get married to dispose of all yr worldly possessions. You obviously have doubts abt this woman. And the fact that she reneged on her agreement to split the downpymt. is a Big Red Flag. She knew precisely how much more $$ you made than she did when she agreed to that. Welshers don't make good spouses. However/if you have been married before &/or there are children from a previous entanglement to consider/then a Will -- stipualting specifically how much yr kids get vs. how much yr wife gets in case you croak -- is certainly appropriate. If she won't agree to that/then she's obviously after the whole ball of wax under the suviving spouse laws in most states. And you shd dump her w/the quickness. But wanting a bigger house isn't necessairly a sign of greed. We have a lot more gear than you guys do. And she may be planning ahead for the possibilty of children w/you in the future. In sum: Trust yr gut. You've got a lot of doubts abt this woman/so there must be a good reasons for them.

I can understand the need in some cases for a prenup in my Head, but I know if a man I was going to marry ever asked me to sign one I would be very hurt, and might not sign it even if it meant we couldn't get married. the idea that he would be planning ahead for the end of our marrage would devistate me.

I saw this post yesterday,but couldn,t post.Indesicive,you didn,t mention where you live,in Arizona,whatever you owned before you got married is still yours if you get divorced.So if you already own your own home and you DON,T move to a house with bigger closets,if things don,t work out,you still have your home.Was she married before?Any kids?I have to agree that she sounds like a golddigger,she managed to invest money for HER future,now I see you did get a larger place and she didn,t come through with her end of the deal.I don,t think she sounds kosher.

The simple fact that you are looking for advise on here tells us you have some serious concerns about this woman.....this has 'bad news' written all over it. At your ages (40's) it seems appropriate to ask for a prenup as you obviously are bringing an established lifestyle into the marriage and you have to protect yourself. In Gee's case (early 20's) a prenup would probably not have much meaning as you are both typically just starting out. And I've seen the pictures as well.... if Patrick and Nico have a prenup..... it was Nico who should have asked for it :0)

I wouldn't respect a rich man who didn't ask me to sign a prenup. I'd sign on the dotted line. But if he wants me to give the babies his last name, which of course I wouldn't take, he'll be ponying up with the cash, otherwise it's Mama's last name for them. Men are dumb enough to care about whose last name the kids have. Suckers.

i keep having this vision of you standing alone on a desert highway with tears streaming down your cheeks and this devastated look on your face that silently screams: "what happened?" or maybe that was your boyfriend. i dunno.

what's the issue with siging a prenup if are genuinely in love? all it says is "if this marriage fucks up, we leave with what we came in with." there is nothing to loose in signing a prenup UNLESS you are a golddigging whore. in an age where a woman can talk half your wealth AND your children SIMPLY BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN, prenups are a requirement. it is irresponsible NOT to have one drawn up if either person is entering into the marriage with a degree of pre-earned wealth. and who wants to marry an irresponsible person?

I don't date rich men. I don't exclude them from the pool, they just don't seem to apply. Shame, really, since I don't want money I didn't earn (except the lottery), so their family fortunes would be safe with me. Desert highway. Laugh. The babies will have Cameron's last name. I'll know they're mine, I'll have the mangled cervix to prove it. My cervix is about the size of a quarter. I'm going to have to pass a baby through it. Heinous. I was reading Our Bodies, Our Selves last night to buoy me up about the ovarian cysts and I became incredibly depressed. There was a picture of a woman dead on the floor from an illegal abortion. Fuck.

"He would be planning ahead for the end of our marriage." That's a load of crap. If she was the one with more to lose then you could bet there would be a prenupt. Statements like the above are just a way of manipulating your feelings. It's kind of like saying, "I'm not going to wear my seat belt because that's just planning to crash." Don't marry anyone who can't be up front and realistic.

right BEAV........and leaf, you got that right, she is the bread winner in the family. we never signed a prenup, just as leaf said, we were young, and we didn't/don't have much. We would mostly be fighting over records and cd's, THAT could get ugly......but in your 40s. you are on the backside of life, you don't need stresses such as some gold digging cunt leaving you high and dry when you should be relaxing as hard as possible entering into the retirement age. The fact that she has a problem with it is the biggest red flag of all.

Right,we didn,t have a pot to piss in when I got married,I made alot of sacrifices,to help him get where he is now.There are male gold-diggers too,so if I ever divorced or my huband died,I don,t think I,d remarry,I,d want to leave what I have to my kids.

Thanks a lot for reminding me I'm on the backside of my life....but then I'm reminded every morning when I bend over to slip on my loafers.

I don,t mind being on my back,it,s the walking around with the mattress strapped my back that bothered me.

Get rid of that mattress....learn how to improvise :0)

all other things being equal, as they should be, it seems the children should take the last name of the mother, as she's the one who carried them around in her belly. the name should be the gift. I think pretty much all my childbearing friends have ended up giving their kids the father's last name, though. I think they all watch tv, too.

not mine. but then again, i'm not married, so i guess i don't count.

If i ever have kids (not likely), whose name they end up with depends on which one is harder to turn into an insult. My last name rhymes with "fool" and was often corrupted into "sewer" in jr. high. Plus, it just sounds plain as hell. If i end up with a woman who happens to have a "Mac" or "Mc" in her last name, forget about my last name. There are more than enough people with my last name to go around. However, it takes two to make a kid so it should take two to decide on a name. ithink if yuo can't decide on whose last name, you should make up a new one. Or use the Norse system od using the suffix -son or -dottir, I always thought that was neater anyway. "Semillamasson" does have a ring to it. Oh, and don't get married to anyone who doesn't like your friends. It will never work, and it's unfair to your friends.

Oryou could do the Russian thing. I always thought they had a neat way of naming their children.

My sister turned me on to this site and I would like to thank all of you for your thoughtful replies. This is not a joke, this is something I've been agonizing over for the past few months. Fetidbeaver, your response about "manipulating feelings" really hit home. I forgot to mention to everyone that neither one of us has been married before or has children. I'm really puking because I feel much love for this woman but I can't help feeling that something is 'just not right.' I've talked with many of my friend about the situation, most all agree with ya'll. I want to be as straight forward as possible when explaining this situation so as not to skew it in my favor. As I am writing this post now, this person has since gotten a list of houses that _she_ can afford 'on her own' so that she can move out and buy a house so that she can itemize her taxes. I haven't been able to read these posts at my house because whenever I read my e-mails she appears over my shoulder. My guts are torn out - somehow I feel that maybe I'm screwed up and should do what she tells me but deep down it doesn't feel right. I've been dating her for going on 5 years, we met at a mutual friends wedding, so this makes it all the harder to terminate. She has done good things by me and I believe she has a good heart, it's just that she's very pushy, self-righteous and demanding and, like her father, she thinks that her way is the best and only way. I'm crying inside while I'm writing this because once again my heart is blown up. Thanks again for ya'll response, any further comments, for or against or in between, will be greatly appreciated. Much Love and Happiness, God be with you all. IAH

Hey, IAH, good luck, and we all hope you make the right decision for yourself. Of course, you are going to have to clue us in on who your sister is, unless you don't want to. Have you told her all the things you've told us, by the wway? You may want to do that.

I don,t trust her,neither should you.

Thanks for the response J, ALL OF THESE COMMENTS ARE REALLY OPENING UP MY EYES. IAH.

Well, as Cyst said, if you're asking strangers on the Net whether you should marry, you shouldn't. That said, there's not really much to go on here without knowing much more. Two things do stand out, though. The first chance she got to do something to really start your life together (buying a house for both of you) she backs out of contributing her half to, since "you have more money". WTF? So much for an equal partnership. And to add injury to injury, she put the money instead into a fund for HER golden years. Aren't they supposed to be BOTH of yours golden years? Isn't she planning to fail if she's keeping a separate retirement account? Sounds like the old "What's yours is mine, what's mine is mine". And then in your subsequent post, you say she's looking for a house to buy on her own? What the hell does that mean? You guys would live in your own houses after you got married? And again, the kicker is so she can itemize on HER taxes. Wouldn't it be BOTH of your taxes real soon? Again, doesn't exactly seem to be thinking of a future of partnership. The only way you're going to be able to dispose of these issues, or not, is to ask her, not us. And you have to do it in such a way that it's not, "You selfish bitch, WTF?" Take some time to think how to word it in a way that it's about you, not her, or she'll get defensive, and then it's just a knockdown drag-out. "These things are making me feel....and I want to talk about what our ideas of and common goals for the future are and to get rid of these bad feelings and misunderstandings." Good luck. Hopefully it can be worked out. But DON'T be pressured into a big mistake just because of five years inveswted or friends' expectations or parental pressure or anything else. It's right for the two of you, or it isn't. There're plenty of things worse than breaking off an engagement. A hideous life-draining marriage followed by a brutalizing divorce, for instance.

the big dilema in any of these situations is whether or not to prepare the gravesite beforehand. i know this has been gone over again and again, but really, it is a difficult question. for one, to prepare a burial site would be a great benefit. it would greatly reduce the chance of being caught, because body disposal would be quick and painless. dig that hole, pre-line it with lime, put the heavy duty plastic bag in the trunk of your car along with a hatchet and saw, etc, etc. but on the other hand, if you happen to get caught there will be no "crime of passion" defense. you're going to hit murder one, no question about it. no bargining down for a short stint in the pen for manslaughter. you're fucked. so i guess the question really is, are you an optimist or a pessimist? are you going to get caught or not?

i'm going to get burnt and sprinkled. solves that problem quite nicely, i think.

To Mr. INDECISIVE AS HECK; Why fo' doesn't yo' tell us her name, address, an' plate num'er o' her car. Cooter an' ah will check her out fo' yo' an' send a repo't. Now is not th' time t'be foolish! She may be a member of th' satanic cult, L.U.C.Y. Eff'n this hyar be th' case, Cooter an' I will charge slightly mo' due t'th' costs of silvah bullets. Ah doesn't thik it's a quesshun of wether t'marry up wif t'is scoundrol....ah reckon th' trimenjus quesshun is wether Cooter an' I kin save yer soul. Answer quick!!! Th' fo'ces of L.U.C.Y. ain't no jokin' matter.

I had a dream about Lucy last night. I dreamt that there was a revolution going on in Las Vegas and Hitler was there and so was Lucy, trying to stop it. She sent me these pamphlets in the mail describing how evil Catholicism is and how it had a hand in the revolution. I laughed about the ridiculousness of this to a friend of mine as we drove down a highway. Then we almost got into a car accident. That was it. Sorry, I can't give any marital advice except to say, if you don't think you can enter a marriage without any major reservations, you shouldn't do it. No help, I know.

Dream?...or....Visions of the future!!!!!

Can somebody explain real quick what this Lucy deal is all about? 100 words or less is all I'm asking. Or point me to a representative URL of her work which shows why she is so reviled here? Inquiring and intrigued minds want to know...

Explore the boards a little. It's all there.

Rhiannon (by the way, is that your given name? It's a beautiful name.) Exploring the boards is SO much work, and there's SO little time. I'm lazy. I want everything spoon fed to me. Please, just give me a URL. One little URL to point me in the right direction. Please. Or even better, just a quick summary, and I'll leave y'all alone about this. PLEASE. I know nobody likes grovelling, but I'm down on my knees as I type this. I swear it.

It's one of those things that is over and not spoken of, lest the curse return. It's all in the Sacred Posts, if a young lad be resourceful enough to read.

Ah, flattery. You learn well, I see. Here was the start of it all

Dougie, go to sorabji.com:What does it look like where you are? Caspar 1st post is by Isoide on monday november 15, 1999 @11:58pm from there it descends to hell. Also you stated that you have a deceased wife. First I'm sorry for your loss, I can't even imagine. Second, How did she die?

Sorry, Markus. Well, he can look for the end of it all on his own.

Ah, you're a fine lass, Rhiannon. May your sheep grow like wheatfields, and your barley never turn sour.

Fetidbeaver, we were separated at the time. She had her own apartment. It caught fire, she jumped from the 5th floor. She was in a coma for a week. She died from the impact, not from the fire.

I hope things are better for you now. I had a brother (was a fireman) killed in a fire. Good luck with the Caspar post.....it was 174 pages long......

Abandon all hope, ye who enter there.

:o) :o( :o) :o(

Thanks, FB. Things are good now.

Re the Caspar postings: HOLY FRICKIN MAMA -- you guys must've burnt some VGA cards and fried some motherboards with the friction flowing through that thread!

Didn't you Know? Sorabji.com is lined with asbestos. Don't breathe too deeply. I'm still not certain it wasn't all some wild-ass joke.

The Caspar thread got pretty intense. Had I only known what I was starting...I wouldn't have done any of it. Jesus. What a day. I worked at the printers all weekend and finally got to sleep. Then more bills arrived. I hate that. Most of them are Ireland related, and I have them covered, but there's this $400 I just don't know what to do about. I think I'm going to hide the envelope in my bills drawer and worry about it on the 15th like I usually do. But I'll still lose sleep over it. Bleh.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT LUCY. Cletus, you stop bringing that crap up or I'll kick your droopy lil' butt.

You go girl,,Lucy was all good till she flipped out on us,if she comes back,I say welcome her.

Them is fightin' wo'ds. I'll meet yo' out back of th' possum coup, be prepared t'fight o' fuck. Shet mah mouth!

Cletus,I couldn,t get mad at my cuzin an the pappy of my baby.

Just dropping in to update this saga. i'm a friend of "Indecisive as heck". The female of the duo has moved out to "her" condo (obtained by a loan from IAH). . . IAH has been having the blues and just last night sent her a one line e-mail. She responded with the following one: "At 06:54 PM 06/12/2000 -0400, you wrote: this is not much fun.................. It's called Grieving. Because it's unpleasant doesn't mean I go back to a place that wasn't happy or healthy for me. Did you know that? You were the only one content. Nothing I said, nothing I wanted to change mattered. We don't share the same wants and desires. Maybe you heard it, but that was all the action taken. You don't have to make any changes now. You don't have to do anything. I don't understand the stagnation, the inaction, the indecision, the paralysis. I can't live like that. Months and months and months to come to terms with even the little things- and then still no action. I don't understand the fear of taking some action, some risks. Unless someone just takes a chance and tries something new, life is stagnant. To me, that is worse than being alone. X______ X______" Now isn't that manipulative and cruel. . I say. She really knows what buttons to push. To try and cheer my friend up (IAH) and other reasons, a friend of mine an I typed a reply in her voice to send (only him) to cheer him up. Actually, we typed two. I would like to post them here for sik yuks.

(If her father has a company why can't _he_ loan her some money? Has she already tapped him out? Let her not stagnate, let her branch out to new pencils, new shapes of pencils, new pencil colors The pencil in the shape of an O is the sign of Unity, yes Unity.) . . . Why should we have just straight pencils?, we need pencils in the shape of an ankh. It's not a question if it's practical or not, it''s that its NEW. A Pencil necklace could be a whole new thing. what about the spiral pencil? fuk you and your stagnant x-ray ultrasound world. It's called Peeving and you're going to do plenty of it. . You can peeve all the way to the bank. I'll peeve all the way to the bank when I use all of your life savings for the seed money to manufacture the prototypes for my latest advertising vehicle, the glow in the dark round pencil (necklace) The advertisers name will be highlighted to get the advertisers message across at the rock concerts. Glowing Round Pencil Necklaces are where it's at! Forget blimps. nobody wants to be in the old fashioned media of computers, skywriters. I'm going to strike out and be a millionaire, if it can't be with your money, i' ll create a millionaire world with virtual money. I just moved the decimal point on my bank account and _I'm_ richer than _you_ now. So what if I had to move it four spaces. FYI i'm changing the mailing address on my mortgage payment bills to your stupid address. After you've paid them, throw the stubs in the hole where the hot tub used to be and wallow wallow wallow in you loneliness. I'm going places, If you want to make up I'll be at Chilli's tonight. I had some cosmetic surgery on the last bit of credit you gave me access to and you won't believe what I look like under my bandages. They'll be lining up at Chilli's to buy me drinks to ask me what kind of cosmetic surgery i've had, and you know me, I can be the coy one. I won't tell them it's whole body lipo, I feel a money ache coming on. give me just a little check to cover my expenses at Chilli's for the first hour. You know I'll be obligated to buy these guys' drinks back or else . . .you know what! I'm sending a carbon copy to my father and a blind carbon copy to Dr. Evil to get new glowing round pencils that can be worn as a necklace. Why even sharpen it? so what if you can't. We at X. X. Advertising Specialties know what's important, it's the Advertising, not the specialties. I'm going to strike out! I predict that I will be a gazillionaire on the strength of the round advertising glowing pencil necklace and you'll be stuck with that little house. p.s. You never use that Jacuzzi, it was _my_ idea. I'm sending two of my fathers men to get it this afternoon. Please be there. (warning. . . locksmiths usually side with the woman)

Hey "IAH", it's me. This is not necessarily to give you another chance, I just wanted you to know about some new alternative developments in my life when I don't have to be held back by you in your un-free$pending way$. What kind of a tightwad would hesitate for even a minute to get a COLEMAN hot tub even when it was on sale?? i should have known back then not to waste my valuable time on you . . Don't they allow "hats" in TGIF's now?. . .Well, so what if it's only Wednesday. My new boyfriend is going to be Jamal, he could have had a 10 mllion dollar a year contract with the NBA but three little positive coke tests disqualified him for 3 years. But when those 3 years are up, Watch OUT Mister! I'll be sitting outside of the Denver Coliseum (I don't really care for basketball, up close and personal if you know what i mean, it's just the money) in the back of his 30ft. long Hummer limo watching videos of Tom Cruise movies that haven't even been released. By the way, Jamal does like me to slip into the Coliseum and cheer him on or console when his trick knee doesn't allow him to carry the game for the team. I personally don't care for basketball but I do believe in supporting "my" man. All thirty inches of him. Even though I don't personally care for basketball, if Madonna can do it, I think I can smell the money too. Put me down for being a material girl" but what else is there? Even though my Glowing Round Pencil Necklace was about 20 years ahead of its time, and wouldn't you know it patents only last for 17. Coincidentally if "we" had a child, (in other words if I "somehow" became pregnant while married to you) he would be 17 by the time we finished only a sixteenth of your trust fund, you'd have to take two or three jobs to pay child support. No I wouldn't let you visit him, he wouldn't even be your real kid, but go ahead, try to get out of those child support payments that you'll either have to pay or go to jail. You know me, I can carry off a bluff. I'll tell the court "go ahead I'll submit to a dna test" My cosmetic surgeon Blake Kevorkian assures me that not a drop of blood can get through the protective layer of baby fat" that he'll have about a barrel left over of from my liposuction. I may look a little puffy after the operation but the guys at Chilli's (not to mention TGIF,) will be consumed with curiosity about what's under these bandages and Dr. Kevorkian asssured me he'd leave a hole for me to sip daiquiris and of course. . . . well. .. Squirm, Squirm with jealousy, You could have had me, and I could tell by the way Dr. Kevorkian was looking at me that he wants me for his next trophy wife. The present one is being too openly grabby for his money and maybe you've never seen the "$ubtle" side of me. Now there's a man with an income. He's not a lowly technician like you, he's a practitioner. He gave me a cassette about the new operation he invented.Wallet Ectomy. but enough about me, SQuirm like the worm you are. and Squirm some more. You'll never glow in the dark like my pencil necklace that I struck out and did so I wouldnt be stagnant. You did me a favor. The best favor anybody ever did for me in my life. Note to myself. . . "I must get Jamal to stop all this talk about a pre-nup or daddy's bankruptcy is going to become final and you know how he sweated over all those pencil logos when that was cutting edge of all advertising media. Wait, this gives me another billion dollar idea . . . . Virtual Moe Helmet. Let me put it this way. if you put cotton pads over your eyes before you put it on, you're not playing fair. Get the picture? You wouldn't believe how big a market there is out there for S&M . . .particularly M. I have my design team (me and the stockroom boy here at R & X Advertising Specialties, my dad's co. that i work for) working right now . Picture it, supple black leather on the outside and a mechanism to deliver virtual, but very painful eye-proinks and head-bonks on the inside. and if anybody asks what those giant lumps are for the servo-nose hurter, I'll tell my customers to say "This is S&M isn't it? . . . . . .I got these lumps from the best of 'em." Come on, feel THIS one (50,000 volt taser shock). signed, xxxxxinatrix.org

Holy shit.

you guys need to relax. just relax. maybe in a hot tub. I always hated chili's.

yeah-kick it in the butt girl!

i cannot get involved

mm. chili sounds good. i think i'm going to pick up a can of chili and a block of cream cheese for my free day. ahh.

yes. yes, something hot and meaty. that sounds kind of dirty. I'm going to make some soup right this second.

Here is some Gee Trivia for you: when I eat soup (or stew) that has lots of different vegitables in it, I always eat the peas first. because I like peas the least. If there are no peas, I head for the corn first, because corn has No Place in soup. No exceptions. after the peas are all gone it's fair game.

you are so bass-ackwards. corn should be in every soup. i can't even dream of a soup that can't benefit from corn. two words: corn chowder. i'll tell you what doesn't belong in soup: seafood. seafood is nasty. brrrrr. gives me the shivers.

I enjoy corn in my poop. but then, who doesn't. be honest.

I enjoy corn in my poop. but then, who doesn't. be honest.

corn and seafood are good in soup. you backwoods culture lacking freaks. because, uh, you know. i'm neither culture lacking or backwoods. ah, damnit. fuck you, you ass.

. o O Something I can agree with Nate about. Crab and corn soup...delicious. I have the recipe if anyone wants it.

Could you mail it to my cook? Hiren Até.

I saw a nature show where groupers and all kinds of fish and birds were eating crabs whole. I was wondering, how the hell do they get digested, don't the shells hurt inside the fishes' and birds' stomachs, and once they're digested, they must have to spit the shells back out, no way they're coming out the other way. I'll agree with the corn eaters here -- corn belongs in all soups, and pretty much anywhere else you want to put it. Anybody ever try that Peruvian drink made from blue corn? Very good.

crab shells are digestable.

dougie- describe the peruvian drink more- i think i have had the salvadorn version-- called "corn coffee".

both birds and fish have a crop and a gizzard which are organs which break up hard items. allows birds to eat seeds and shit.

Found this on the web: "The standard drink that comes with lunch menus is "chicha", a sweet non-soda drink made of purple corn. It is easy to prepare, bring 2 liter water to a boil, throw in 4 purple corn. Boil for a while. Wait until the purple juice is cool, best to put it into the fridge, then add juice from limeńas and sugar to taste."

Sane, sane, they're all insane.....

I think a little vodka might put a little "kick" in the chicha.

and a couple drops of liquid a might make it do the cha-cha.

Maybe rum. The corn drink is sweet, so I don't think vodka'd marry very well. Or maybe it would. I'll try it -- you can buy the powder to make it in hispanic groceries.

beaners like to eat beans.... I wasn't looking at his neck man.

chicha nitzen

hey Cat, i'd love the crab meat and corn recipe would you consider sending it my waY?

Cat, go ahead and post it here. I'm sure a lot of people would like it. I gotta mean Roasted Red Pepper Cream Bisque with Shrimp recipe if anyone's interested (supposed to be topped with Romano cheese at the end, but that overpowers the delicate flavor of the red peppers.)

A wise man once said: If hoe try to double-charge, wang her twice as hard. Hope that helps.

Dougie, give it to me big boy!

OK here's the crab and corn soup recipe. It's almost too easy to be so tasty. I only barely speak your language, so please excuse any translation probs with the measurements: 115g/4oz crab meat (fresh is best, but canned will do) 1/2 teaspoon finely chopped root ginger 2 egg whites 2 tablespoons milk 1 tablespoon cornflour paste 2 pints/2.5 cups chicken stock 225g/8oz can creamed sweetcorn finely chopped spring onions/shallots to garnish Flake the crab meat roughly with chopsticks. Mix in the chopped root ginger. In another bowl, beat the egg whites until frothy, add the milk and cornflour paste and beat again until smooth. Blend with the crab meat. Bring the stock to boil in a wok or big saucepan. Add the creamed sweetcorn and bring back to the boil once more. Stir in the crab meat and egg white mixture, add ground black pepper and salt to taste and simmer gently. Serve garnished with finely chopped spring onions. (on next week's show, we'll feature an awesome Thai shredded salad with a Nuoc Cham dressing (that's lime, coriander and chilli)

here's a nice meat and vegetable soup i thought j. might like. i'm not much of a soup man, personally.

LMAO!!! What was that line of soup a long time ago? The Manhandler???? I just want to know who got to cut the meat.

Cat, thanks for posting the recipe. (on a demented note, on twilight zone once, the supposed peace-loving extra-terrestrials landed on planet earth with a coded book titled "To Serve Man" . . . they were getting earthlings to sign up for a visit to their planet. At the very end when a reporter for local newspaper was about to go aboard, his secretary ran up after breaking the books' code yelling. . "Frank, don't go! It's a recipe book!") Doug, if you can send the red-pepper one to me it would be another welcome addition.

when you meet her she will come.... and she will be the only one.

that peruvian drink sounds exactly like the salvodoran corn coffee! yum!

Here you go (I like it without the Romano, and with lots of Tobasco) -- ROASTED RED BELL PEPPER BISQUE WITH SHRIMP AND ROMANO CHEESE 5 large red bell peppers 3 1/2 cups chicken stock or canned low-salt chicken broth 1 teaspoon paprika 1 teaspoon sugar 3/4 cup whipping cream 1/2 cup grated pecorino Romano cheese Hot pepper sauce 1 tablespoon olive oil 16 large uncooked shrimp, peeled, deveined, coarsely chopped 3 tablespoons thinly sliced fresh basil Char red bell peppers over gas flame or in broiler until blackened on all sides. Enclose in paper bag. Let stand 10 minutes. Peel and seed peppers. Cut 1 pepper into matchstick-size strips and set aside. Coarsely chop remaining 4 peppers. Combine chopped peppers and stock in heavy large saucepan. Bring to boil; reduce heat and simmer until peppers are very tender, about 5 minutes. Working in batches, puree soup in blender until smooth. Return puree to saucepan. Mix in paprika and sugar. Simmer 5 minutes to blend flavors. (Can be prepared 1 day ahead. Cover bell pepper strips and soup separately and refrigerate.) Whisk in cream and pecorino Romano cheese. Season to taste with hot pepper sauce, salt and pepper. Heat 1 tablespoon oil in medium skillet over medium-high heat. Add reserved bell pepper strips and shrimp and sauté until shrimp are cooked through, about 3 minutes. Season with salt and pepper. Divide shrimp mixture among 4 bowls. Rewarm soup; ladle around shrimp mixture. Sprinkle basil over and serve. Makes 4 servings. Bon Appétit March 2000

I am bord, are you? I Love this site! Email me @ civicman8184@yahoo.com I want to see how many emails i can get from "Strangers" lol!

I love when threads are revived and I can read old posts, especially when sem talks about his future wife: "If i ever have kids (not likely), whose name they end up with depends on which one is harder to turn into an insult. My last name rhymes with "fool" and was often corrupted into "sewer" in jr. high." My last name doesn't lend itself to insults immediately, plus it has all the full-time vowels (A-E-I-O-U). What could be cooler than that? If I didn't like my last name so much I would have taken my mother's Irish maiden name long ago, I like it quite a bit.

8/25 and 10/4. those are my "dodged a bullet" holidays. i remembered today when someone said "10/4, that's a friday, right?" and i said "no, that's a saturday." and i remembered why i knew that. this is the first annual 10/4 dodged a bullet holiday. 8/25 was third annual? i don't know. i was thinking that this 10/4 coming would be a difficult day. i'm not so sure now. maybe it will be, maybe it won't. she disgusts me at the moment. i know rationally that someday i will get past that and she will be my friend. but right now i am angry about what she did to me. part of that is being angry at myself. angry for writing her story for her and falling in love with that. i shouldn't do that. i should never do that. i'm angry that she wore my grandmother's ring the first time she cheated on me. i'm angry that i didn't have the self esteem left to kick her out there and then. i'm angry that i was lied to. i'm angry that i took her back. i'm angry that she did it all again. i date beautiful women. i always date beautiful women. she was so beautiful. i was in awe of the impact she had on me. i lost interest in all other women. no one compared. i saw her last week. i'm not even slightly attracted to her anymore. this is new. i was, even after she cheated on me. after she broke my heart. each time. it was starting to fade, maybe, towards the end. but in the weeks since i'd last seen her i realized who she was. my self esteem returned somewhat. she lost her beauty. that kind of makes me happy. not that she is no longer beautiful. but that someday i will be with the most beautiful woman in the world. some might say i'm not over her, the 10/4 girl. i can't say for sure. i believe i am, in that i would never return to her. no fucking way. i believe i am not in that she still harms me. i saw her and it harmed me. i started getting anxious. anxious about the little clues in what she said that leads me to belive she is already seeing someone knew. and you know what? fuck her. fuck her for harming me. why should i care? i don't care. it just makes me anxious because for so long the idea of her being with someone else haunted me. the image of her in the arms of another was my nightmare while i was trying to make things work. trying to believe in her ability to fix her problems. to fix what was broken in her. and now it is residual. and i won't see her again. i don't have to. it will be a long time. long enough that the residue is gone. i am a good person, goddamnit. devoted. honest. a true catch. so i need a woman i can trust, please.

Maybe you should date a woman that's not beautiful on the outside, this time. No guarantees, but it's worth a shot.

i think my perception of beauty is informed by the personality of the person. i've had people i'm not attracted to become attractive as i got to know them. and the other way around. i'm not so shallow, agatha. i think.

That post made me so sad. It made me so sad that I thought about it all the way to campus. I tried to think of something profound and comforting. I don't think this is it. I'm sorry it's so long. There are few things worse than THAT feeling. I can't recall the emotions anymore, but I do remember that it was the worst feelings I'd ever had. One week it's all tears and I love yous and the next week it's, "I fucked someone else." First, there is that paralyzing suspicion. I knew she was visiting him that weekend and I was up for 48 hours straight wondering what was going on. Then came the phone call, "A. was here this weekend." "Yeah, I know." "Well...I like her." Discovering what happened evoked a very brief moment of relief before my heart just turned numb. He cried. I didn't. I made snide remarks. He said "I love you" before he hung up. I said, "Good Bye B." It was too late to call my bestfriend, Shannon, so I called another exboyfriend. He tried to comfort me but it didn't work. I stayed up most of the night writing to Shannon and playing over everything he said to me. Over the following weeks I went through cycles of emotions. All of them: sadness, rage, jealousy...there were moments of confidence and even happiness. But every time I thought I was going to be okay, I cried into my journal in some coffee house. He sent e-mails that said, "I still love you and you are my best friend." He said it would never work, between us since I was so far away. I lived in Columbus, and he lived in Chicago. She lived in Detroit, but they were going to Ireland together. She was paying for him to go. He repeated that I was beautiful and intelligent and wonderful. I guess I just lacked airfare. He said I deserved, more than anyone else he knew, to fall in love and that he wanted to be there to see it. You already were you fuckhead. I was so naive; I should have known better. Why was I so stupid? I cut him out of my life for a while. It felt good. He was broken. I knew when we got involved; that's why there were no demands or promises or committments, just love. We both said it. I told him to take time to heal and he went and fucked the bitch. There was no way I could "understand the shit" he'd been through. I understood better than he did. He liked her because she was a bitch. He thought bitchy women were strong and women like me who were open and honest about their issues and insecurities were weak. She cheated on him, just like the other one did. He called me crying, "why would anyone want to cheat on me?" I could have said some really mean things, but I just pitied him and we both knew I wouldn't have done that. We patched a few things up, but I was angry for a long time after that. Very angry. EXTREMELY ANGRY. I vowed that I would NEVER become involved in a long distance relationship again. Ever. NEVER. We don't talk anymore. I've moved on; I hope he has too. No more residue. I know you know this, but it bears repeating: It goes away. It takes a long time, but it does. I discovered this last year when I listened to Pink Moon and Kid-A and felt relieved and not icky. Now I have to work.

argh! sorry, I have to fix this. "I could have said some really mean things, but I just pitied him and we both knew I wouldn't have done that." This should read: "I could have said some really mean things, but I just pitied him. Besides I got plenty of satifaction because we both knew that I never would have cheated or treated him the way that C. (the old one) and A. (the new one) had."

just for the record, i am related to the fellow who started this particular post, the indecisive one. thought i'd let it be known that that year he did marry and is still married to the woman in question.

of course

And is he allowed to see his friends?

"He liked her because she was a bitch. He thought bitchy women were strong and women like me who were open and honest about their issues and insecurities were weak. She cheated on him, just like the other one did. He called me crying, "why would anyone want to cheat on me?" I could have said some really mean things, but I just pitied him and we both knew I wouldn't have done that. We patched a few things up, but I was angry for a long time after that." I got pissed off reading this paragraph. People can be so fucking stupid.

i can't get involved in any of this.

Thanks Spider. I wish I had you guys back then. "i can't get involved in any of this." no, but you certainly felt the need to be dismissive.

im not sure what i've dismissed. i thought maybe you were making a remark as the contents early on in this thread. without rereading it all, i scanned the thread and have no idea what you are referring to, though i found it hiiiilarious that over two years ago, on this very same thread, posted "By patrick on Thursday, June 15, 2000 - 12:15 pm: i cannot get involved" so. what?

I don't think you're shallow, Nate. I hope that wasn't how I came off. I'm just glad that I don't have to go through the absolute torture of dating anymore.

Patrick, Actually, I didn't think you were really being dismissive of anything specific. It was just a reaction so I posted it.

Eh. I've (once again) got mixed opinions on the whole prenup arguement. My fiance and I are both relatively young. (I'm 25, he's 32) Neither of us have much in the way of finances. We get by and we live well, but we're anything but rich, nor do I think we ever will be. There's no reason for us to sign prenups as we're not really entering with anything. Also, I like to stick with the belief that when I say "I do", it's forever. The life we're building together, the things we aquire, they're "ours", not his or mine. I like to think that if things do fail, we'll be mature enough to decide what goes where. I've seen so many marriages fail. It's why I'm a little scared to enter mine. I do not want to fail. I want him to be the person I spend the rest of my life with. I want us to be crippled grey haired old people together. I think we stand that chance. It makes me sad that it's so expected nowadays that marriages are seen as temporary. It sort of defeats the purpose of til death do us part if you make a plan in case it fails. Eh. Nevermind me. I'm trying to hang on to fantasy.

hey looks its kalli. i hear she can squirt bubble gum out of her tits you know.

bubble "tape" jackass. get it right.

So when did you get engaged? I must have missed it if you posted it before. Note to sorabjites: if you get engaged, the best way to spread confusion is to mention it in passing like everyone knows already.

just for the record, i have quietly perfected the grilled cheese sandwich. just for the record, the next time i fall in love will be the last. if everything i've learned so far proves false, if i end up fucking up again, i am going to take a nickel and a zippo and brand myself thirteen times around my torso and arms. just for the record, i will drink to forget the future exists or the past ever happened. i will live in a college town and tell young ladies that there are bullets lodged in my bones and that each disk of scar on my torso and arms is where one went in or one went out. just for the record, it won't matter which vice takes me first. just for the record, i'm still sober.

just for the record, i forgot to go # 2 yesterday and really really really really need to go #2 today. 5 o'clock can't come soon enough.

Patrick- Can't you just find an abandoned stall somewhere in the building where you can curl up with some of that gay porn you sell and do the biddness? I know pictures of ass fucking always acts like a laxative for me... Semi- I like to confuse people. I thought I told already. My bad. Um, we got engaged about 6? months ago. Not getting married til next Sept tho. I'm happy n stuff. Hows you? Nate- Shut it.

i can't poop here unless its an utter emergency. and watch your tongue young lady, we don't produce hardcore here so even if assfucking helped me, id be sorely disapointed.

I just wanted to see if I'd get away with it. Drats! uh, seriously, do you have a public pooping issue? Seriously. I do. If I'm mid pee-pee (see, I'm watching my language) and someone walks into the bathroom, I freeze. I actually went up three flights of stairs to find a solo bathroom today so I could, you know, poo-poo. (Uherm)

One of my favorite poop stories: This was when I was an archaeologist for the Army Reserve in Wisconsin. We were surveying in the most remote corner of the base, and usually I would be able to hold anything until we got back to the office, but this one was urgent and it was morning. so i grabbed the TP and one of the shovels and ran out behind the bushes. I dug the hole, praying that I wouldn't hit a site (or UXO) doing this, and did my business, praying that no deer ticks would attach themselves to my ass. I recall the flies made it to the hole right before I finished. I hope nobody was eating breakfast when they read that.

could it have been so unusual if you had tp around?

"(or UXO)" Hehehehe

yes kalli. i have similar issues. its a comfort thing.

It was unusual for me, plus our crews were mainly female, so they used it for peeing. I peed in the woods all the time.

Maybe this will come in handy http://staceyg.home.texas.net/Poop.htm

My favorite poop story is nary a week old... Last week my girlfriend was standing outside her condo having a smokey treat. There's a vacant lot owned by an art gallery right next to her place. Some dude ran into the lot and backed up to the gallery. He dropped trou and took a shit right as she was watching! A few days later I was taking her dog out to do his duty in this same lot. (At least we pick up his shit when he's done...) Said dog was really interested in something on the ground near the gallery, and before I realized what was up he was happily chomping away! I pulled him away quick, but the damage was done...

I have a really awful poop story that I am reluctant to share. I'll think about it.

i can't believe you guys are all talking about pooping. disgusting.

once i had an emergency sloppy poop in a field of sage brush while i was on a hiking expedition out in the middle of fuck nowhere montana. i used the maxi pad i was wearing to wipe my ass. then i buried it. (nyah nyah i win again!)

My s/o and I had eaten at a thai buffet once and after we left there I had to stop at the drugstore,to this day he blames it on some spicey cabbage thing he ate.He tells me to stay put he's gotta go RIGHT NOW!!! He swiftly walks back to the restroom which is being cleaned and he can't use it,he runs by me and says he's going outside. He ran behind the store,got between a car and a truck and projectile splatted all over the passenger side of the truck.He was mortified,I cracked up.We never ate there again.

I had to poop in my bedroom once. I had just moved into a new place with a new roommate that I had just met. I had to poop but she had just stepped into the shower and so I decided to wait until she was done. I was at the computer writing e-mails when it became clear that I couldn't wait much longer but she was still in the shower. I waited some more until it became PAINFUL (like from mid-tummy all the way down to my thighs) and so I decided that I could not wait any more and was either going to knock or ask my neighbors. When I stood up, however, I couldn't move. It hurt so much and if I moved my leg even an inch, well...I would soil my pants. So, I looked around, grabbed the only thing I could which was (luckily) a paper shopping bag, dropped my pants and pooped into the bag. I quickly cleaned up with some paper towels, lit a scented candle and ran out to the dumpster to throw it away. She was coming out of the bathroom as I came back in and asked what I was doing outside. I forgot what I told her. I think I said something about some moldy old papers in one of my boxes.

ok that wins.

i'm not telling my story, but it sure is making me laugh right now but i'd tell you the story of the jumper cables again if ya want

I've never heard your jumper cables story, hetahre. Please post. Unfortunately, I have no funny poopy stories.

what about the time you crapped in your hipwaders, dougie?

wow, kazu. You do win. :)

Oh yeah, I forgot about that, but that's not so much funny as it is sad. Seems my mother didn't like changing diapers way back when I was a little squirt, so she bought me a bunch of pairs of adorable little baby hipwaders. It'd take me about a week to fill them, and then she'd pitch the dirty one, and swaddle me in a new pair. Well, I guess old habits die hard, because I was out fishing one day with my buddies, and after a dinner of oysters and black beans, I really had to go so I soiled my brand new neoprene waders. Everybody was like, "What the hell is that smell???!!!" Didn't bother me one bit though and kept me kind of warm and smooshy.

jesus christ! stop the horror!

when i was some young age, i was waiting in the back of the station wagon for my mom to come out to the car. i found the jumper cables lying around and they looked really neat. i started squeezing them and then wondered...what would this feel like on my tongue? [why would anyone think this? got me.] so i stuck out my tongue and let go. and it HURT [duh]. it hurt and i wasn't strong enough to get it back off. so i just waited. my mom gave me chewable baby aspirin.

Oh my god, I can't imagine the pain of that. I have this weird thing pretty much every night where I bite down on the side of my tongue with my molars, which wakes me up to excruciating pain.

If I do even the slightest bit of damage to my lips or cheek, I'm in for a major canker sore. I never had a canker sore before college. When I got my first one, it scared me because it was this hole on the inside of my lip. . I thought that meant I had some disease or other, but I read stuff and they say they don't know what causes canker sores. Not like cold sores. . Oh, sorry. Uh... Poop stories... My Cross-Country coach shared one with us in High School. Why? I don't know. He told it in a sad way, not a funny way. I think he was depressed. . Anyway, it's not uncommon for long distance runners to be confronted with a bad case of the shits while running. For some reason, it usually seems to hit when you're at your turnaround point, miles from home. Short story shorter, he filled his running shorts. Not while he was a coach though. . I got the shits bad at the turnaround point of a 7-mile run. It slowed me down considerably, but I still had it under control. My coach caught up with me and guessed the problem by the look on my face. "Lose it yet?" he asked. "No, I'm hoping to make it to that gas station a mile up." I couldn't believe he said "Yet." I almost lost it right then. But I made it to the gas station. . Sphincter cramps hurt like the dickens.

i can relate to the long-distance run thing. i took a gigantic dump in a plastic garbage bag in the middle of a warehouse once. not an abandoned warehouse, a populated one. that was a vulnerable feeling. one time i squatted over my cat's litter box and let loose because my roommate took a twenty-five minute shower while i paced around panicking, cursing, and trying not to explode. i had a full bladder, too, because i'd had a whole pot of strong coffee. jittery on caffeine and trying not to explode. i felt the definition of "relief" after that episode. i think i confused my cat.

patrick! you're the one that started it! ha ha ha!

i am HOWLING over j's story. i can just see someone returning to their truck and seeing that.

yes yes. but leave it you guys to take the turd and run (while shitting your shorts) like mad.

jack's story is better than mine

Yeah, but he's a guy...

Well yours was funny kazu but you didn't have an audience:) I'll never forget driving from Tucson to Phoenix a long time ago and seeing a man with his shirt over his head taking a dump right on the highway on ramp.

This isn't a shit story, but it's close. One Friday night my friend Jeff calls me when I get off work. "There's nothing to do, but I think there's a party." I didn't have anything to do either, so I put on a dress and rode down to his apartment. Turns out there's no party, there's nobody at the local Zoobomb hangout either, so we end up walking around downtown drinking out of paper bags. At some point he decided that I was really cute so we kissed a couple times and he tried to push me into the bushes (I wouldn't let him) but I couldn't leave because my bike was at his apartment and I didn't want to leave it there. We get back, his roommate's at the computer in the main room and I decided to take a piss before I left. Went in the bathroom, sat down, then realized I forgot to lock the door. Jeff comes bursting in, slams the door behind him and looks at me. "I've gotta pee." I said. "So pee." he replied. "This is really weird." I said but his only answer is "Do it. Do it. Do it." While staring me right in the eye. He wasn't leaving the room so I finally gave up and let loose. "You're right." He immediately said, "This is weird." He left. (In order to leave that night I claimed I had to take out my contacts at home, using my special solution otherwise I'd be virtually blind for at least two weeks.)

kazu, i think our stories complement each other. you couldn't move, whereas if i stopped pacing, it was all over. you had "moldy old papers" (i love that! moldy old papers!?), and i had a cat staring at me, quite obviously thinking "i am NOT getting in there until you clean that up. i am NOT sharing it with you, you foul beast." i didn't intend to compete. ----- "jesus christ! stop the horror!" is now one of my all-time favorite sorabji BBS postings. if you guys get together next year and make t-shirts, put that on the back. i'm sure i'm not the only one who wouldn't mind hearing a funny story about how patrick's inner struggle turned out. but i bet he won't tell us. i think it's funny that he single-handedly turned this thread "to get married or not..." to a subject that horrifies him.

Good I like complemetarity, but the thing about your story is that I can visualize the novelty shop/funny bookstore black and white postcard of you and your cat staring at each other as you poop in his box. Although I don't know what you look like. Or your cat. Sem's brother was the first person I ever shared that story with.

I am cracking up over here. You guys just made my horrible awful day so much better. Especially the cat/litterbox thing, because I've almost had to do that a few times. And my cat was poopin' it up while I read that. I read somewhere that 98% of divers admit to peeing in their wetsuits at least once. It's kind of a comfy feeling.

i'm just wondering about fishermen and their waders now. is there a protocol? shit yourself in the river but not around the campfire? or vice versa? or is it always acceptable? i don't fish, or i'd know. i might take up fishing, i guess, so i might need to know at some point. dougie? what's the general wader-shit etiquette?

and, by the way, what's your story, platypus, dear?

because we all know you have one or more. please share.

I puked on a cop once.

Excuse me, I vomited on a law enforcement officer.

details?

and, i'm sure you'll come through with a great story about puking, but you surely have a funny dump story as well.

i've peed in the carribean, the gulf of mexico, the pacific and atlantic oceans.

dude, i'm sorry. with all affection, peeing anywhere, even on mars, just isn't going to cut it on this thread. thanks to you, it's entered another dimension.

poop art. enjoy.

There's something fantastic about peeing in the ocean. I've done it multiple times and anyone who tells you it isn't all it's cracked up to be, is lying. Where else can you just pee without any effort and not worry about the consequences? Wait. Don't answer that. I have an awesome I pooped my pants story, but I've gotta plan out the telling of it. Mebbe later.