| THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016). |
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hrm. nice idea. are we all supposed to think the same now, too? many of the world's greatest thinkers are suspected to have/had add. without these people we wouldn't have the mona lisa or electricity. there was little or no interest in add until the early eighties. sure, there were a few hyperactive people around, but that doesn't mean it's a huge deal. it seems that anytime a child is troubled these days and there's no other reason why, they'll simply label the child as afflicted with add and treat with ritalin. lately i've become more and more dissatisfied with the system: the government has to find ways to shut down any and all deviants, whether violent or peaceful. we're constantly doing things for the military, but if we go to war, it wouldn't be the army that matters since everyone already has atom bombs. what this country needs is better funding for the school system and to cut funding for campaigns. it seems that money controls everything these days, how people behave and such. i used to think that i'd move to another country once i got out of college, but now i have a different plan. i used to read about kibbutzim, independent farming communes in israel. you grow your own food, there's always someone to watch the kids, and nobody has to go to work. if a few of these were set up around the u.s. and actually worked, people might realized that they can survive without being virtual slaves to the government. people did this in the past, so what's stopping us now? |
everything you have said, most of us have thought and/or recognized before. The difference is, eventually, you realize that you can't consume yourself completely with these issues and tha frankly, you can't make a difference. You can only make a difference in your own life. Otehrwise you might as well run yourself into the brick wall, repeatedly. I'm sure there are farming communes here to. hippies were known for this sort of thing. In fact i know and have been tone in Goletta CA called Zambodia. The dumped-up bus still sits there growing weeds and what not, and Russell works at a nearby wholesale nursey. whats stopping you from living on a commune now? nothing. but i think you'll find getting your life under the radar more difficult than you think. yes I'd say we are gearing up for some sort of military action. the cards seems stacked that way. but thats nothing new. and those of us with clear heads have known forever that ritalin/add is bunch of shit. im not so sure it's so much about mind control as it is about selling drugs and making money. |
How old am I? 22? Never mind. |
sometimes i find, when im talking to someone, say on chat or whathave you, above marriage/love/dating etc. i find myself saying the same things that some of the older married folks in their 30s-40s just realized. |
people often don't see the fruits of their labors these days, they're merely cogs of the wheel. if people lived by their work, such as farming weaving and such, life could be simpler and maybe more enjoyable. no high stress deadlines, no traffic. sure, there would be less material poissesions, but the overall lifestyle would be a lot healthier, through good fresh food and hard work. i wonder what even my great-grandparents would think if they were still young and saw the world today. i think they'd be both amazed and shocked at the breakneck pace we're taking. |
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he came back a tan and muscular irrigation expert. I think all young men should work on kibbutzim. oh, yeah. mmm. ------- hey, patrick. have you ever been to spaceland or the hollywood knitting factory? my boyfriend's band will probably be playing at one of those places in june. I think I want to go. |
anyway, there are communes in the u.s., pez. I know there are a few outside eugene, oregon (at least one in veneta, I think). I knew someone who lived on one. he says the group politics became unbearable fast. here's a 27-y-o one: http://www.casco.net/~alpha/ and didn't pol pot have all his city folks try this shit out? as I recall, it didn't work too well. capitalism and urbanism really aren't so bad, if you ask me. |
knitting factory is ok, if you like paying through the nose for drinks. Its pretty new, stemming from the NYC locale. The cover is always overpriced, and the place is kinda designed like an Ikea store. tthe place opened 6 months later was supposed to, people i know who worked there didn't get paid...apparently they are trying to make up for lost dollars. spaceland is pretty ok. its the epicenter of silverlake hipness. been there numerous times. spaceland used to be a gay disco in late 70s and 80s called Dreams of LA. In the smoking lounge they have these neato satellite dishes over the groups of chairs and tables, and play weird sound tricks on you as the guy's whisper 10 ft across from you comes through loud and clear, yet you cant hear the person next to you. I also get really ripped when im at spaceland because they have good beer on tap and these big ass mugs. I order "2 big ass Bass please". what's the band name? not that he may have control over it, but for what it's worth , spaceland is a lot better of a place, and most likely would draw a bigger crowd. id trust your taste and would be delighted to come out for a drink and see some new music and meet you. |
lets see....RL Burnside twice, T Model Ford, Paul Jones.....all Fat Possum artists... I saw Judah Bauer there.....seen W.A.C.O there numerous times...they are my local favs. I saw Rob Zabresky former guy of Possum Dixon who also joined Lutefisk another great LA band that re surged out of the ashes recently. hmmmm I saw Silverapples, Trans Am, Wendy & Carl I saw Servotron, Seely and .Subsonics...three of my favorite Atlanta bands. and who else......hmmmmm |
There are ooodles of communes in the US--I can think of seven within about 30 miles of me, so you just kind of have to look a bit. Actually, the coolest hippie project I've heard about recently is the permaculture institute at Point Reyes--I have a couple friends who work there and it is apparently very awesome if you ever want to visit, Pez. |
i picked one of my favorite Fat Possums disks not too long ago...this late cat named Asie Payton. the guy was dirt poor, lived in a shotgun shack with no water, no electricity or anything. He was a dirt farmer....plowed the fields when he could. He died in what...99 i think...Fat Possum kept trying to persuade him to come out, play, be recorded...but he wouldnt have any of it. He finally cameout and played at one of the local "gigs" they have at one of the auto garages there in Holly Springs, MS and then they got some tape of him at Junior Kimbrough's club. Just enough for one CD. it's good, raw, honest, sad. RL Burnside's popularity, due in part to Jon Spencer bringin him outta the sticks of MS, has helped Fat Possum tremendously. There's so much good shit coming outta there man. I've been tempted many a time to pack the truck (if i had one), load the drums and head to MS just to rock out with some of these guys. Pipe dream i know...but man. |
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! |
i wish i could read hebrew. i have a book on hold at the library, but who knows how long it'll take till i get the call. |
electric companies to keep the hippies' power going, at the slaughterhouses and shoe companies to keep birkenstocks on their feet, at the paint companies so they can have their brightly colored interior walls, at the tool factory to make them their plows and shovels and stuff, in the trucks that deliver the things they need, at the gas company, fire station, gas stations, hospitals, etc. trying to remove oneself from the economy is not only impossible but kind of mean-spirited. what if the economy collapsed? could everyone in the cities move to the country and have a bucolic little life on the farm? uh, no. |
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i was thinking that there would be very little electricity required. there could be enough solar power generated off the roof that could power a computer, a couple of lights, and maybe a computerized loom and a radio. probably a telephone too, for emergencies. when people need to visit the outside world, they can take a couple of bikes to get into town, or if there's more to go, a small one-horse wagon. at least one person would be certified in first aid and cpr, herb treatments, perhaps with training as a midwife. the hospital would only be for a couple of routine checkups and emergencies. keep a few sheep and grow some cotton, to be spun, dyed and woven for clothing. shoes can be made of cotton canvas dipped in latex for a sole. why is trying to make a good living mean-spirited...it could be completely organic, so there'd be little or no pollution. have a huge composting system underneath the buildings (composting creates a certain degree of heat, which in turn could keep the buildings warm to a certain extent). it might be a good place for troubled children to go, to get away from abusive families and to avoid homelessness. |
While you can escape from civilisation, you can't escape from human nature. Pez, your post was quite funny really. |
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helps balance out the rest of us who are jaded. |
"unless you call a bong pipe a shoe." that's funny! |
people talk about hell on earth, and i don't want that. isn't it ok to try and get a little heaven on earth? if so many things go wrong with the current system, then why don't we get there and change the fucking system rather than paying psychiatrists $120 an hour? it makes absolutely no sense! i really want to help people, but everything i want to do drive my mother absolutely insane. told her about wanting to work in the peace corps, she goes ballistic. how about a homeless shelter and she throws a fit. you'll get killed she says, you'll get raped. you'll be imprisoned in russia because putin thinks you're a spy. i really want to make the earth a better place, even for just a moment. is that too much to ask? |
tried it once, it was fun, but the burning sensation in the back of my throat was enough to make me decide that i don't like it. besides, if you think i'm "naive and idealistic" now, just wait until i'm "stoned and stupid". |
i've done the communal living gig. if i found the right people, i'd probably do it again. but i'd be doing it for different reasons this time around. |
Eventually a sense of futility dawned on me. So rather than try and change the world I work on myself. I still get extremely (and futily) frustrated with the world at times. I want to throw a brick at every SUV driver, yank them out of their cars and lecture them on why they are selfish fucks for example. but ultimately human nature will win. someone once said to me "you know, humans are the dirtiest animals on this planet". he wasn't speaking the literal so much as the figurative. The idealism of youth is what helps keep the fat cats on their toes and when the social climate is right, can be very effective at change. |
if you go to the former soviet union, though, you'll be more likely to work on banking systems than agricultural methodology. I used to live in ukraine and hang out with peace corps workers there. ukrainians already know all about living without power and plumbing, and making the beets and cabbage they grow last all year long. really, it's not quite as fun as it sounds. |
nobel is your dream, but make sure you have the strength and knowledge that you'll need to survive. I work in a system designed to help those who cant help themselves. I went into it for the best of reasons, and with little education. It can suck the life out of you sometimes.......the people, the system itself... So many days I come home feeling guilty about my pretty little house, my comfy life, my disgust at those who resist a helping hand, my hatred of the attitude of my co-workers. Cyst is right, its not fun, whether its in some downtrodden country, or in your own back yard. Be sure you're up for it. Sacrifice and nobility are wonderful things, if you have the inner resources to deal with the roadblocks and stumbling posts and deadly attitudes that can wear you down. Tell your mom that rape and murder exist everywhere....you take your chances wherever you go. And if you really wanted to do it, for the right reasons in your heart, no mom on earth would stop you. (all said with love) |
It was one of those shitty days at work. I forgot to tell you about the successes too. There aren't as many as we'd like, but they make the work worthwhile just often enough to keep us going. |
road rage is mother nature's answer to too much traffic. do you believe in darwin? i had a creepy incident at work a few weeks ago (i believe i posted about it)...this guy was stalking me and got kicked out of the store. i was afraid he'd wait for me to come out and then rape me. i'm not too fond of my job. i like my boss and my coworkers, but i'd hate to sell shoes for the rest of my life. i've been reading so much lately, zines about people dissatisfied with the current system. the us dollar used to be backed by gold. real gold. now it's backed by maybe 10 cents of gold per dollar. what will happen if the economy crashes? who will eat and who will starve? the only people that will eat every day work hard for a living, farming and such. will a stockbroker eat? will a teacher eat? unless a skill can be applied for a trade for food, that person won't eat unless someone else is charitable. our society appears so concrete, so stable, that we can take it for granted, but it stands almost completely on faith. when people lose faith in society and demand that they get their dollar's worth of gold, society and government as we know it will fall. and the united states has the furthest to fall. |
same as what makes paper valuable. it's abstract baby, we're all just playing house. stockbrokers will eat each other. it's a well known fact. |
But you have to do some walking instead of talking. |
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i just read that Portland has the highest concentration of strip bars per capita. Pez i bet your mom blames them damn strip clubs for perverts like that guy. road rage i don't believe is nature's answer to traffic. road rage is human nature in a quickfix selfish society that is for some fucked up reason in a rush. People live in bubbles....with power locks and windows. everyone's a bad ass in their car while moving, but stop and step out and everyone is a pussy. i don't think mother nature has anything to do with road rage. I think it may be more cultural. I gotta side with Cat. I gained the most respect from my mother, after years of battles......once i left, did what i did, on my own, married on my own, bought my own god damn tux, after she declined to help me buy it. She realized that she had two choices...she could continue to try and govern my life, from afar and we could battle battle battle, or she could accept who I am, respect my decisions, whether she likes them or not, and be my friend. Your folks sound like they need to learn this. I think a good start would be to get out of the house. I was so happy when I moved out when I was 19. |
if the economy collapses, it won't necessarily be the pacifist hippies who survive. it'll be the toughest people with the most guns. they'll steal necessities from everyone else. in the northwest there are a lot of people who spend most of their time preparing for the end times. they scare me. |
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actually, that's not all that drive ma mere crazy. i wanted to be a writer. "there's no money in writing poems. try something else." i want to help people. "you can't protect yourself that way." i want to play music. "you're not very good at playing." listening to my mother is bad for my mental health. she says i need to get my bachelors asap, when i have no clue what i want to do. right now i'm refusing their help in paying for school because if they pay i'm expected to pick a major and stick with it, no dropped classes, no retakes, no bad grades. so i pay for all my schooling myself, all my clothes myself, most of my food myself. i've payed for all of sylvie's vet appointments and vaccinations and food. she's having her operation tomorrow (spay) and i'm hoping it doesn't drain the bank too much. the only thing my parents do for me anymore is beg me to have dinner at home on my nights off and let me sleep there, really. and nag. i've put myself on a spending/saving plan so i can pay for school and books on my own. last year they begged for me to get a fafsa so i could get grants/loans/scholarships and so i did. filled it out as much as i could. then i gave it to my mom and sait that she and me dad needed to fill out the rest. i reminded her several times, but later she got mad at me for never getting the form. "mom, look. there it is, right on top of the computer. i filled out my part." i haven't seen it since. i tried to break away once, but my parents told me that my reasons were stupid and that i'd never make it. i just wish i could find out myself for once. |
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sounds fucking fun to me. |
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pez's mom is trying to deny her the chance to figure things out for herself. I mean, her mom is probably right about most things, like she should get a b.a., she should be careful out there, she should probably worry more about herself at this point than about the plight of others. but there's no substitute for independence. pez would be happier starving on the not-so-mean streets of portland (or seattle or san francisco or even eugene for fuck's sake) than having supper with the family in boring or wherever. pez's family's hearts are probably in the right place, more or less, but if they're not going to fill out the forms to help her get pell grants (which would help her live independently), then she should kiss 'em goodbye. pez, maybe you should pretend you have a goal in life, and make sure it involves attending an out-of-town college. just go there and start taking general classes before deciding a major. if you really and truly can't make up your mind, then quit school when they make you choose a major. the peace corps doesn't accept folks whodon't have BAs, you know. and having a college degree will never hurt you. I think college is the perfect place to hang out when you're 20ish and aren't sure what to do with your life. you'll meet more interesting people than at the mervyn's, promise. |
"sphere of influence" ? i'd use the word control...but thats neither her nor there i suppose. i mean as much as my mom and i got into it when i was a teen......she never said any of my ideas were "stupid" or that I wasn't very good at playing music or ever denied me clerical assistance in getting an education. She realized i could be doing a lot worse. waht pez describes jstu sounds so damn mean spirited. what her pop did to the bunnies.....man thats jsut so mean. im sure you know this pez..... im sorry i don't want to harp.....can you see my idealism peaking through? like you don't understand how the world couldnt function more like a commune, i don't understand how parents can be the way you describe. on another note....maybe its partly due to ignorance...but has that peice of paper on your walls that says you are a bachelor of something, be arts or science.....has that really changed your life. Maybe its a lack of discipline....but the brief time i was at school.....i took the classes i WANTED to take, not necessarily the one's that allowed me to check off my requirement checklist. but you knwo had i finsihed, i probably would have sepent my sr. year taking calculus, biology any other boring class i managed to dodge over the years. Im not sure how better off i would be with a piece of paper saying i met THEIR requirements. What about my own? |
My mother's also got control issues. Serious ones. She was furious with me for not going to grad school. Then she was furious with me for moving so far away from home (she tried to equate my leaving home with her leaving my father, i.e., something that will destroy the family). I felt terrible for hurting her, because I love her. But I left, and I'm fine and now she's fine. If the thought of leaving your family or the feeling that you'll hurt them is hard for you, that's normal. It's good, because it means you care about them. But it's also normal for kids to grow up and leave and do things on their own and have opinions of their own. If your mom/dad are having an especially hard time with this, it's their problem. It's all right for you to feel bad, but don't let that keep you from doing what you need to do. (And you're not a wild 15-year-old who wants to run away and do all sorts of dangerous things and scandalize her parents. Remember that. What you're doing is normal and healthy and perfectly reasonable, and it's unreasonable of your parents to tell you otherwise.) One more thing: when I went "away" (about 45 minutes away) to college, it took me a while to be okay with not being home. But I can tell you honestly that now I don't miss my parents or home at all. I do miss my brother, though. On another note, my best friend/roommate may be moving to Florida to study. |
Some people's parents don't know how to separate themselves from their kids. It's good that your mom did. ************* Pez, what are your grades like? Maybe you could get a scholarship to a better school if you transferred. The University of Oregon has a great psych program. |
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patrick, that piece of paper is a good thing to have. you can get a ba without ever taking biology or calculus. if pez wants to go to russia, she should consider going to uw and studying slavic languages. she could pick a public school in another state and first move there to work (while obtaining state residency). maybe by the time she could get in-state tuition, she'd have a better idea about what she wants to study. it's fine to flounder, but you might as well be working toward a possible goal while doing so, know what I mean? I imagine you would feel better about working at a retail job if you could think to yourself that you were on your way toward obtaining residency for schooling later on. college isn't about knowing what you want -- it's about figuring it out. and I'm not talking community college classes while working at a store and living with the folks, either. when I went to college I paid most of my way by working at the paper, where I met people who would later lead me to czech republic, ukraine, and central america. classes were the very least important part of my college experience, which I couldn't have picked up anywhere else. I also eventually picked up the piece of paper, which has helped me in other ways. whether they graduate or not, I think few people who go to public universities (and incur minimal debt compared to private college students) later think, "now what the hell did I go to college for?" if nothing else, it's really fun. |
i'd also be lying if i said i never felt in someways inferior for not finishing college....but i have learned to reassure myself that my education does not equal my worth as a human. i proudly take that poop to the bank and cash when i need it. |
and less time at home. it's not that i'm against b.a.s or anything, but couldn't i get my associates, take a year off, then go back to school and get my b.a.? when i move on to a university, i want to find the best school in anthropology/music that i can find. i know what i'm capable of, given the right atmosphere. most of my friends left for schools across the country back in august. those that stayed in town i lost touch with...i've always been like that, forgetting people when i don't see them at school. i've been investigating the portland mercury for possible rooming situations fairly close to mount hood where i could keep my cat. i know that i'm due for a raise sometime in the next couple of months and i need to send in my card so my health will be covered and i can get a discount the next time i get glasses. i'm so scared. i've been so "sheltered" and i don't know the meaning of paying car insurance or having money to pay utilities at the end of the month...though i've inadveratly gotten a couple of tips from a member of the band at school. she takes envelopes, labels them with "rent" or "electricity" or "water" and the amount, then puts money in them over the course of a month. once it goes in, it stays in. this person also plays music at street corners sometimes. actually, that sound like fun. she wants to start a flute group with me and have me be the leader. |
I also dropped out of college, and pursued my "education" in my own way and in my own time. I work with people with all kinds of degrees in all kinds of areas, and I only feel inferior when they talk about how hard they worked for their degrees. Otherwise, I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn, people like me. What is education other than learning. Of course if you want to be a doctor, a lawyer (geez) or something that requires specific knowledge, ya gotta go the regular course. But dont we all know highly educated people who are dumber than doo-doo? Anyway, as usual, I'm off the track here, but I'll trade ya 10 BAs for someone who can hold a decent conversation, instead of a monologue. |
paying bills and such isnt that hard. perhaps try and live and go to school in a place where you won't need a car. |
this for a really long time] has been invaluable. not for the technical knowledge as much, but the experience is unlike any other. so i guess my opinion is that you should pursuit something with some level of intensity, whether it's school, or an art, or family, or whatever you feel strongly about. knowing that you've challenged yourself and followed your own path will be enough. |
but i spent ten years in undergrad and grad school, and like patrick, feel the self hatred when i admit to myself that because i got drunk for the next seven years after leaving a fully paid doctoral teaching fellowship at a great school...i screwed up my phd for good. sure, i cd go back but i'd rather pursue intensely something that is close to my heart and offers some amount of soul...than finish a "terminal" degree just so i can be "properly" employed. if you would have asked me if there were any chance at all of doing what i am now doing, yeah right. i didn't have a clue. the liberal education and the problem solving and the learning how to research and to write from it... that's what's made the difference. that and a good chunk of divine intervention. you wanna write? then write, and keep writing, and don't do it for anyone else, and never listen to those familial critics who say you cant you wont amount you better not. |
my mom told me a while back that i could have her bicycle if i got it fixed...that might be a plan. besides, my sister's turning 16 and wants a car to drive...it's my parents really, though i could pay for it and then some with a little of my savings...naaaah. then i'd have the constant "gas and insurance" bugger besides oil changes and tuneups and a new headlight. i want to get in touch with some portland-area zinesters (i have a few email addys) and see if they have any advice. |
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Walk the Appalachian Trail for a year, backpack through New Mexico, float the Snake River in Boise, and avoid Ohio at all costs. Get a passport and see the world. Enlist in the Navy for the best views, a good comp plan, and free travel, and a free college education. An added benefit is the free health care for the rest of your life, and the free funeral at the end of it. There are no problems, just options waiting to be explored. You'll be outta here in a hundred years; how do you want to spend it? (the above is in no way meant to be advice, and no action should be taken on a account of said non-advice. The Management accepts no responsibilities whatsoever, and there are no implied or expresed warranties in any event of any dissatisfaction with your life. The aforementioned text is a rant, and only a rant.) It's yours. Do with it as you wish so that you might help others less fortunate, and take none of the credit for yourself. |
i think we got gallery space secured for summer. A whole month!!!!! don't join the navy...i think there will be war soon. |
West Chester University (in PA, and it's a public school) has a very good music department. I took lessons from professors there as a child, and one had previously taught at Julliard and one had taught at Peabody. I only know about schools in the Philadelphia area. US News & World Report puts out an issue of college rankings every year....your local library's reference section should have a copy. I'm not doing what I want right now, but it's okay. I like my coworkers, which makes the day fun, and I make enough that I don't worry about money, and I have my evenings and weekends completely free. I won't stay here long, just long enough to store enough $ away to decide which area in psychology I want to study further. Clinical? Counseling? / Anxiety? Cognitive disorders? ??? |
I might be crazy, but I really like doing stuff like deciding how to arrange our cabinets and fixing the broken closet door and setting up my medical insurance plan and taking my car to the garage. When I was at home, I always felt like I couldn't do anything right, but now I know take pretty good care of myself and I'm a lot more sensible and responsible than anyone ever gave me credit for being. And when my father comes to visit and tells me I didn't arrange the cabinets right, I shouldn't put the couch there, I haven't chosen the best long-distance phone plan, and my tomato sauce needs more parsley, I can look him in the eye and say blithely, "to each his own," and go back to eating my very good pasta. |
it has been spoken. |
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