How can it be possible for someone to hate you with a passion after you've been nothing but supportive of them for years? When you've provided for them? When you've stood by them and picked them up after they've fallen into rough times, resulting from bad luck but also from self inflicted wounds? So, yeah, she's probably going to divorce me soon.

I am sorry about that, sir. I don't have a word to describe on how I feels about that.

Yeah, so we just talked about it. She never said "divorce," just euphemisms like "divided households" and such. I'm numb. She said I was a bad person and a bad father. I guess it helps her to see me that way.

OK, so it wasn't a euphemism. She wants to live in separate houses, but NOT get a divorce. She wants to sell our house and buy two new ones. All this after we almost went bankrupt the last time we bought a house. (Right when the housing market tanked in 2008. The market is WORSE now.) This is just bizarre.

And now she says I can't sleep in my own bed, and if I do I'd be "forcing" her to sleep elsewhere, and that would constitute bullying on my part. I gave in. I'm sleeping upstairs on a couch. I still don't understand how I'd be making her sleep elsewhere just by sleeping on my side of the bed, but whatever. She apparently thinks I'm picking a fight just by existing, so no need to make things worse.

oh Tig. this sounds so bad! my heart is broken.

Ugh, Tig, this sounds...awful. I don't even.

this is horrible to read. i hope you are okay. maybe sarah needs to post you some of nana's balls.

package arrived yesterday afternoon! sooooo exciting! senor dove right in to the bags of candy. i hope he didn't eat all of the ingredients already.

but, yes, when i make nana's balls, i shall mail some to all those in need of a pick me up. along with fig preserves.

Things are back to status quo, though I guess I'll be sleeping in the upstairs room for the foreseeable future. It now makes sense why my wife wanted me to move my office up here a few months ago.

care to share with us why that is? this all seems so vague and random from this point of view. marriage is SO HARD. my god it is so hard and a lot of work. the best advice our family counselor ever gave us was to get a babysitter at least 2x a month, but ideally 1x a week. that advice, i believe, has saved my marriage. i'm not sure that advice would work in a marriage where one or both spouses have an addiction or mental health issues that they are not willing to admit or address. anyway. i'm still very sorry.

It makes sense because I figure that she wanted to get me as far from her on a daily basis (and now at night, too) as possible. I've been working from home since february and seeing as she can't stand being around me that must have been difficult for her. We have a housekeeper who also does childcare two days a week. It certainly helps. I think the crux of the situation is that she's projecting her feelings about her father onto me. Her dad is very controlling, manipulative, angry, and mercurial. (and apparently has mellowed as he's aged, though he's still the most intimidating man I've ever met.) I can only imagine being around him as a child seriously messed up my wife. I figured it might be an issue going into our marriage, but I had no idea how far it went.

I am so very sorry to hear about your confusion and other painful things. I have recently learned how biology makes men and women very different in ways that make it really hard to understand each other. It's incredible. For the record, men are awesome.

as long as he didnt eat too many oddfellows or the chocolate thins you'll be fine.

Antigone, at what point do you say "enough" to your wife?

Wouldn't do much good, sem. If I try to comment in just about any way about her actions she starts on the, "Oh, so it's all about me?" routine, even as she's making it all about me. :) She's just not being remotely rational. But, you know what? I'll put up with almost anything as long as she's a good mom to our daughter and as long as I can live under the same roof.

Good mothers don't treat their partners like crap. Neither of you are doing your daughter any favors, living day in and day out in a completely dysfunctional relationship and acting as if it were normal.

kazu, you are correct, this is what happened to me when my mom and dad got divorce, things got real ugly.

i agree with kazu. i'm not saying get divorced, but... how about this idea? your wife gets a part time job of some kind and starts taking an anti-depressant and you go to marriage counseling. the job thing, speaking from personal experience, helps retard the slow decent into madness, that staying home full time with kids, along with varying hormonal factors, can sometimes induce. i mean that only half jokingly. anti-depressant thing, because from earlier posts of yours, it sounds like she's dealing with some some difficult things like health issues? it might help even her out so she can get her wits about her in the midst of everything.

She's talked about getting a part time job, and that might be a possibility when our daughter goes back to school, but I don't see it happening any time soon. I doubt she'd ever take antidepressants. And considering she believes herself to be 100% in the right I don't think she'd consider it. We did go to couples counseling a few months ago, and before she cut it off because it "wasn't working" the counsellor did suggest antidepressants to her. She refused, so that was that. (And this was the same counsellor who suggested that I could go into organ failure and die if I stayed in an unhappy marriage, so wasn't too keen on the guy myself.)

Antigone, "organ failure?" this is unheard of, I have been single for 18 years since I was divorced. I hated being a "hurt" part when my ex-wife and I got divorced, it did had alot of bearing down on us. But I ain't getting married again, but happy for who I am now. :-) Hopefully, things will resolve soon. I know you are doing the best.

Antigone, its time for you to figure out what is healthy for you n yr daughter, which to me sounds like getting good legal advice, married folk sleep together, or agree not to. But never unilaterally. Give her a week to come to her senses, stop abusing you, then take halff all assests n put in yr name only and find a lawyer. Give her that, she if she changes her tune. I am for happy coupledom. Sounds like yr counseloer was right on. Sorry. Call me if you want. Stay connected.

He would be right if I internalized stress, but I just don't. And I don't want a divorce because I want to be in my daughter's life more than every other weekend and one dinner per week. (I'd never get 50/50 custody as she has too man resources at her disposal. Plus 50/50 custody would not be good for my daughter as she's only three years old.)

If wife is unstable go for broke. I hear your concerns, but kids are resilient and respond well to good parenting even if it is single parenting. Don t be miserable. If only one of you wants to reconcile, might as well be a happy dad half time than a perturbed dad all the time. What would reconciliation take?

Daniel, I strongly agree with Antigone's recent comment in which he doesn't want to miss out his daught's life.

That's the thing, Daniel, I'm not miserable. Confused and concerned, yes. I've been anticipating for about nine months now that she'd divorce me. That was the hardest part, wondering when she'd lower the boom. Now that it's clear (at least for the moment) that she doesn't want a divorce I'm actually feeling much better. Maybe part of my calm about the situation is that I've been through far worse. I've had girlfriends physically abuse me, emotionally abuse me, bring other men into my home and have sex with them on my bed while I was in the house, etc. (none of this was by by wife) I've experienced many attacks from women who were trying to belittle me and tear me down. So when my wife was telling me I was a bad father and a bad person, sure it hurt, but I could also dispassionately see the possibilities. For instance, she said I was a bad father because I "terrorize" our daughter. The only example she could come up with was when our daughter was throwing a screaming fit in a grocery store I told her we would go out to the car and my wife would finish the shopping. Our daughter is very attached to my wife, so she was upset by this, but it was no worse than when my wife drops her off at school, or she leaves her at home to go to the store. But when it's me suggesting they separate (even for a few moments) I'm being a "terrorizer." So when my wife said this it seemed so ridiculous, and I could be a bit detached because much worse has been thrown at me in years past. Even if she said some things to be intentionally hurtful (always a possibility coming from someone who feels trapped) it was so plainly false that it just bounced off me. And it seems in general that she's unwilling or unable to do the things that would hurt me the most. I still don't know why she won't divorce me. I asked her directly and she was completely silent. So for now, as odd as it is, it's good enough for me. Even sleeping upstairs.

that is so zen and logical of you. it boggles the mind. or... it boggles this mind.

Antigone,hopefully things will goes well for you , your wife and your daughter. I can't dealt with the issues. I am better off today than I was while back. Fawk that anyway (pardon my language).

I have emotions, sarah. But what should I have done when she attacked me? Attack back? Would that have made the situation better? Would me getting upset or angry make the situation better?

no, of course not. i am not attacking you or being sarcastic (though historically i understand why you might take it that way). in this instance i am being completely sincere. honestly i was thinking that i should enlist that point of view in my own relationships more often. maybe in context my comment may make more sense. lately i've been choking back a lot of rage and resentment toward someone who hurt me. maybe a better way to put it is, i let her get to me (no, i'm not talking about my mother). there was just one hurt too many and i lashed back. it was very childish and ugly. i apologized, but she didn't accept, so i lashed out again. ugh. it's so gross. i'm still feeling shitty about it. lashing back is not what i want to do, it isn't who i want to be. it's very childish and ugly. i let myself get dragged down. but this isn't about me, and i don't want it to turn it into that. i don't judge you at all. it sounds like you are confident in the way you want to handle this situation. that's admirable. you're a good man.

You good. You are handling it as you can and want. If you can live with the situation, go for it. Sometimes people come to some compromise. You don't have to go to every argument to which you have been invited.

So the latest is that my wife has taken out the big guns: she called Daddy. He father is ruthless, quite wealthy, and has been divorced four times. He's a fucking divorce ninja. The good thing is that he likes me, or at least claims to. (He has no qualms about lying to gain a tactical advantage, and is very good at it.) But I can only assume the freight train is coming. He has told me that he will support my wife completely, which means the best lawyers money can buy on her side. I may be well and truly fucked.

Oh Tiggy,I'm so sorry to hear this,I know Ada is your pride and joy and she looks so much like you except wayyy prettier:-). You haven't done anything wrong,your a great father,and sometimes you just can't back down!!! If it comes down to it,I'll write a letter to the court and I'm sure other sorabaji's will too. I think your the better parent. It sounds like your wife has some mental issues if you ask me and you should start documenting all her bullshit!!!

.............................

I'm sorry, Antigone. I really hope you had documented some of this stuff for the inevitable custody hearings.

So the date has been set. She's moving out November 3rd. She has causally said, several times, "Nothing will be different for you. You can come over and see Ada whenever you want. I don't see why you're so upset." To think she could actually believe that not living with my own daughter would be just fine for me is...I don't know what to say. I've been weeping, literally on the floor crying my guts out, many times in the past week. This is the worst thing I've ever gone through.

Oh, Antigone. I don't even. I'm so sorry.

I am loss for a word. Sorry about that sir.

this makes me feel sick. i am so sorry this is happening to you. why can't Ada live with you?

I'm so sorry Antigone.

You do sound like the more stable parent Tiggy.I wish I could give you a big hug,I am so sorry.

Ada could live with me, but: 1) Marci doesn't have to work for a living, so has much more time to devote to taking care of Ada. One thing I've seen through all of this is that she is remarkably good at manipulating her Dad, who is wealthy, so she gets lots of support from him. I have now become a tool in this, as she's managed to turn her mismanagement of money into "He fooled my Dad into thinking I'm irresponsible with money." So not only will she have her monthly stipend, but I'm sure she's managed to get more out of him. 2) I have to work, sometimes long hours, often travel. Not very conducive to single parenthood. And though it's possible Ada's financial needs may be taken care of, it's not something I want to bet on. I need to be able to build a financial future for Ada because left to her own devices Marci will burn through whatever funds she has available. It's the only behavior I've seen from her in all the years I've known her. 3) Ada is very attached to Marci, and will be for a while. Marci does all she can to encourage this, even to Ada's detriment, but I think it would be pretty hard on Ada to be away from Marci. 4) I'm up against the juggernaut, the aforementioned Daddy. He could crush me in court and financially without breaking a sweat. So that's where it is. Not good.

Pardon me if I seem crude,but when I look back on things as far as Sorabji and I go, I have always been kind of ghetto. FUCK THAT BITCH!!!!! FUCK THAT FUCKING ASSHOLE BITCH!!!! HOW DARE SHE!!! THIS WILL BLOW UP ON HER!!!WHERE CAN WE GO WITH THIS???? I AM ALL DOWN FOR YOU TIGGY!!! She will get KARMA! DON'T MAKE THINGS EASY ON THOSE FUCKERS!!! DO ALL YOU CAN ON YOUR OWN!!! YOU ARE SMART AND CAN DO IT!!! HER DAD WILL HAVE TO PAY!!! I AM ROOTING FOR YOU!!!

Thanks, J. That means a lot to me. And I have been really angry, and despondent, at times. But now is not the time for either of those reactions. I can tell, just from her actions this past week, that she is going to try the "look at how angry and crazy Greg is" game, and it started with her pushing me by saying 1) I had "anger issues," and 2) I had been the financially irresponsible one in the relationship. (after she blew at least $100K of her dad's money...all of which is well documented in bank transactions. Not sure how she thinks she'll get away with that one...) So she's clearly trying to goad me into anger so she can play off of that. Well, it's not going to work.

Well fuck her anyway,and the dad she rode in on!

amen to that. J said what i really wanted to say.

quit your job, fuck it all. grab your little girl and run far away. explain it all to her later when she can understand. either way, she'll end up resenting you. that's the way this goes, i know. but at least she'll be safe and and have a chance at sanity in your care. run run run run run run away.

I can hide you in new zealand.

Or Missouri

You guys are fuuuuuuunny. But, no. :)

So my house is about ready for sale. It's in OK shape, and I've almost got it cleaned out, but the market is horrible. Another house just went on the market a few doors down: same size, probably better shape, $50k less. I'm screwed. And then there's the weeping. Can't forget that. I've been making great progress cleaning the place up, but there are long bouts of crying, and I have to force myself to clean out drawers. I haven't been this emotional about the whole situation for about a month, but then a few days ago I started cleaning out some of Ada's toys and it all hit me again. And again today it was cleaning out the bathroom, of all places, where a lot of her bath toys surprised me in a drawer. I've been a bit more down and vulnerable the last few days because I caught the flu, but damn, can the fucking crying stop already?

Antigone, I don't meant to put this with you; if the market is bad, is it possible that you can rent the house to tenant or someone until the economy is fully recovered and you may proceed to sell the house at the market's reasonable price? I can understand about going through the process with the aftermath, the same as mine. It takes time and courage.

Antigone, my heart goes out to you dude. been going through a split myself, but yours sounds by far more traumatic. I do hope you've been able to maintain a connection to your daughter. Stay strong. The love you give her will always be important. Do you have good people around you for support? Get them to help you. And break some shit, or burn it, to let the feelings out.

Oh Antigone. *hug* Don't resist.

keep crying. if you're still crying this much a year from now, you ought to step back and reassess. also, yes, break some shit. huge fan. you are okay. your vulnerability is what makes you human. your ability to cry is what makes you healthy. the tears will lubricate the transition to the next phase. sorry to use the word lubricate. hang in there. you can do this.

Sorry to hear that Antigone. Don't rent though -- got a friend who rented out two of his houses, and has to take both sets of tenants to court to get them the hell out. Renters seem to have more rights than owners.

Dougie, well excuse me. I am hoping things will goes well for Antigone soon... :-)

Thanks, ya'll. I know crying is necessary, but it's just been hitting me hard the last few days. And in a way, sarah, it's been almost a year. Last January was when I figured Marci was on the verge of divorcing me. I'm definitely not renting. Just getting this place into it's current condition was a pain. Having renters would just guarantee property damage. Nah, it's either sell or keep paying the mortgage.

...

ha!

Much love for you, Antigone. I'll second the advice above--cry. Break some stuff. Reality setting in is when it hits you hard all over again, no matter how long you've been preparing for it.

mmm or nnn

hope

Fucking Marci. Seriously, she sounds like a piece of work.

damn. i'm sorry you had to go through all this. blow up the tv, throw away the paper go to the country, build a little home plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches try to find jesus all on your own

Yeah, I'm already looking at land. :) The house is 99.44% ready to list. A photographer comes tomorrow to take pics for the listing. I dare say it's cleaner than when I bought it. (Except for the garage, which is packed to the gills.) I hope it sells quickly, but I'm not expecting it to. I just want out of here. The hardest thing from the past few days was cleaning off the front doorway. There were some bricks just outside the front door where Ada had written all of our names in chalk, plus the names of our pets. (One of which was my cat Max who died a year ago.) I could barely stand wiping the bricks clean, and all I could do was weep for minutes afterwards. Its like I've been slowly erasing the last four years while cleaning this house, tearing down my home.

Agreed with droopy's comments :-)

go office space on a copy machine. if you're looking at land, don't forget to also look for water.

Praying for you and yours, Antigone.

No need to comment or commiserate, I just need to tell someone the latest goofiness from the wife. So she's been bugging me for two weeks to give her the washer and dryer, which she initially said she didn't want. Apparently she bought a set for herself, so when she asked me if she could have mine I was a bit confused. She later told me that hers were breaking down so I told her I'd give her mine as long as I could do laundry when I came over. She agreed. This was two days ago. So yesterday she texted me and said she didn't want them anymore. She said my dryer was electric and her utility room didn't have a 220 volt outlet. So when I got over there to see Ada I peeked behind her dryer and there was a 220 volt outlet. I pointed this out to her and she said it was no longer my concern, and that I was a "control freak" for even having looked behind the dryer. The "control freak" comment really got to me, and I teared up a bit while playing with Ada afterwards. It's just so emblematic of why she's divorcing me. How can I be a control freak for trying to help her out in exactly the way she's been asking me to help her for the last two weeks? I mean, sure her dad exerts control over her through the money he gives her, so it's plausible that she's projecting that onto me, but I don't think that's all of it. After all, in her initial divorce decree she insisted on 100% parental custody of Ada. She basically codified her desire to completely control Ada's life in a legal document. And she's even started suggesting that I don't have to take Ada on my weekends if I don't "want to." How could I NOT want to see my daughter? It's basically the only thing that gives me happiness these days. So while she's in the past overtly and is now not so subtly trying to have control of all of Ada's time, she calls ME a control freak for trying to do exactly what she asked me to do. Unbelievable.

I know you didn't ask for comment, but this was one of my realizations in the last few years. When people are talking (usually when complaining about someone or accusing someone) they are 90-something-% talking to themselves. Now that I've seen it I can't stop seeing it, and it's freaky. Trying to understand people with the emotional maturity of a turnip is a fool's errand. Take it from a once-turnip. Man, I hope brunch is soon.

Stay away from her!

Stop worrying about what she wants and try to relax. Unless she gets some serious therapy it's not going to get better because of your trying to be helpful. Breathe and spend as much time with your daughter as you can. She's not just a turnip, but a cray-cray turnip. Clothes, laundry, walk, shower, ride, dungeons & dragons. Go!

Kind of hard to stay away from her as she's the mother of my child, but I do my best to ignore her. Sometimes my best isn't good enough. Yeah, I 've just been clearing out the house (now basically finished) and the act of deconstructing the last sense of family I had was hard. The years of 2006-2008 were the happiest of my life, and the last six months have been the hardest of my life. I hope the next few months will be better.

Etheric hugs for you. Stay strong.

i love turnips. it's likely that i've the emotional maturity of a turnip. or rutabaga. trying to work my way up to beet or carrot.

Pickled?

So, you do have a lawyer, right? and you should be writing all this down as well if you anticipate an ugly custody battle.

Yep, I have a lawyer. He hasn't done me wrong so far. :) Custody battle is over, unless she decides to revisit it. Officially I have Standard Possession Order level custody, the regular 1st/3rd/5th weekend per month, with alternate Thursdays. Unofficially we've settled on a different schedule, though. I have Ada every Saturday and I come over to Marci's place every day to visit before bed time. We're just starting out the financial negotiations. I expect fireworks as soon as she sees what I've proposed.

So I guess it's time for an update. My house sale closes on Monday. Moved out most of my stuff today. Only cried once, on getting back, when I picked up a glow in the dark plastic star Ada stuck to the garage door. Hopefully some time this week I'll own a condo near by. It's decently sized, and has a nice small bedroom for Ada when she's over. I like it that my mortgage payment will be less than half of what it is now. I'm tired.

Fucker!

Ind33d!

When I read that, it bought back that memories of mine, both when my mom and dad got divorced and when my ex-wife and I got divorced, no children should gone through,and moving out was the hardest things in my life. sorry for the swearing above, I mean, it hurts for me to read this.

Shit, man, hurts to write it. I'm there with you.

same here. my parents' fighting still sounds an alarm somewhere deep down in my brain. my parents' divorced when i was 5, almost 6. it was very confusing. my dad disappeared for a while. then moving to the attic room at my grandma's. my scary, alcoholic, abusive grandpa. then my dad reappearing. then back to my mom's in an apartment in the ghetto. dad disappearing again. then to my aunt's house for a month or so. then to my mom's new boyfriend's house. my dad reappearing. mom married 3 times. three extra-marital affairs. dad married 4 times (most recently this last October), and in between each he literally had 30+ girlfriends who lived with him at one time or another, anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. i didn't even realize how fucked up that all was until just last year. on the outside i had all the trappings of an average middle class white kid. but psychologically and emotionally i lived locked in a dark basement. Antigone, stay strong and sane and stable for your daughter. eventually that's what my dad was able to do for me, and that was the most important attachment and relationship in my life that kept me from... from i don't know what. from something likely much worse than what i am now. now that i have kids i want to stay married just so that my kids don't have to go through anything like that. i am trying to get sane for the same reason. i love my girls more than anything in the world. but there's a part of me that is waking up to the idea that my attachment to my girls is not an ideal mother-daughter attachment, but an attachment between them and 6-year-old sarah. a little at a time i see glimpses of a idea that pokes out, wearing various disguises, a thought that getting married and having kids inevitably, despite what i do or don't do (The Work), is leading to my worst nightmare becoming a reality, and then some day having to learn to make peace with it, but not before i completely drown in a sea of regret and/or run away for good.