OK, I got around to this becasue there are desperately bored people out there, and we can't have that. So, to recap, I have joined a dating service, finally caving in and acknowledging the fact that there's no other way for me right now to successfully meet interesting women. So, what does this involve? For a fee, undisclosed, I went in and signed up for a standard year package. I made a video talking about what I like to do and what's important to me. I got dressed up in my one suit and also in some more relaxed clothes for pictures. Which turned out pretty good, if I may say so. I also handed in a typed profile, with the standard info, age, height, weight, profession, education, marital status, desire for children, religion, etc. I then wrote about what i like to do, who the hell I am, and what sort of female entity I would like to meet. All this information goes into a binder. Every member's profile is filed into a binder, alphabetically by first name and by order of joining the service. So, my profile would be in the back of the latest "A" binder. What you do is, you go in, tell the nice ladies at the reception desk your number and they print you out an activity report, which shows who you've selected, what their response was (yes or no), their last name and phone # if yes and a categorized reason if no. The sheet also shows who has selected you and what your response was. The sheet has blank lines for making new selections. So, armed with a #2 pencil and this sheet, you walk into the "library" and brwose through the membership binders (divided by gender). I found the easiest way to do this is to flip through and just look at birthdates first, and stop at the ones that are in the age range you're interested in. You know almost right away if thery're someone you might want to meet. On the profile is the number of their video, which you can take into a booth and view to see their body language. Once you've found someone or a couple someones you'd like to meet, you write down their name and member number on your sheet and turn it into the desk. They in turn will send out a postcard to the person you've selected saying that they have been selected. Normally, they come in, look at your profile and video and decide whether they are interested or not, which they put on their sheet as well before handing it in. They can call first if they want or they can just accept and you can call them from the phone number on your sheet. In theory, a nice system, and seems to work for quite a few people. My experiece so far: I joined about two weeks ago. I have made three selections since then: C., a 31-year-old Finance manager, good sense of humor, sings along with the radio and likes sports and art; M., a cute, outdoorsy, mischeivous-seeming plant pathology grad student, animal lover, likes to debate, intelligent and sparkly. These were the first two, who have yet to respond, although by now they must have gotten that l'il card in the mail. Well, damn it, why should I wait? So I made another selection, A., a 26 year old grad student with unique features. A redhead, likes biking, hiking and variety in music, lifts weights and an outspoken liberal. She also just joined this week so no way is she seeing anyone, so I hope she'll respond. So far, no one has selected me yet. It's fun to go through and read the profiles. It gives you a context for the person so you know whether or not it's good idea in the first place to try to contact them. Hopefully soon, I will have dating experiences to relate here as well. So that's the setting. Let's see how it works out. I get mild butterflies in teh belly just thinking about it.

what are the things you think about when you select? do you try to figure out if they might be a kind of person who would want to meet you? do you pick your real favorite? the middle, the last? why stop at three. you should select like, hundreds, i think. is there a limit? do you like dating? my friend thinks dating is great. i personally would rather do anything than spend time sitting in front of someone i don't know.

dating services can be interesting. i married a guy i met through the personal ads. i stated in my ad that i wanted somebody w/ opposable thumbs. i got him. that was over 12 years ago.

Was that your only criteria?

yeah sem did you get freaky in your interview and talk about the Subgenius bit?

on, maybe the news? a talk show? i don't remember, yesterday, they had a bit on 'speed dating' they tried to say how new it was but i remembered hearing that it's a not so new idea in the jewish community so 40 people sit at little tables and talk for a specified period of time. then like musical chairs they move on to the next one. they write on a card whether they would like to see this person, and if they both say yes then the service hooks them up. women said it made them feel empowered, ok to ask questions instead of being submissive. i think maybe that you're not allowed to ask about what a person does for a living and a few other things. i bet people would still say stupid things to me. then i would offend them and it would be a bad scene. i wondered what happens if after like 3 seconds you just can't bear to talk to the person any longer. that's a bit extreme i guess. from the people they showed i think i would have walked out. i am horrible. i have other horrible things to say. i think i won't.

I think I'll be keeping the "Bob" stuff to myself for a while. Unless she brings it up first, of course. What I think about when I select? It's a gut feeling based on what I've read. Plus, I don't select people who don't seem to hold the same political or social values I do. Why I selected only three? well, there aren't that many in my age range, actually. I'd be in better luck if I was ten years older, though. Plus, there were several actually I wanted to meet but they had their membership on "Hold" (which is when if you start seeing someone seriously, you can bar yourself from being selected).

see....i had a feeling you might.... you "cleaned" up yourself in more ways than one. did you talk your music tastes and passions at all...specifically at all? don't white wash yourself or hide the potential controversial things sem. i always rout for YOU

Sem...WHO DO I FRIGGIN CALL.

Ghostbusters, you ass. Patrick, My passion for music, film and good books, plus my wild sense of humor were all stressed, especially that a woman would have to have a pretty good sense of humor just to tolerate me. I learn, I learn. Takes a while, but I do.

alrighty then. to bad we can't get a sorabji-cam on your first date hiddin in your top hat or something.

i tried personal ads. the men were just fine, but the experiences were disasterous. almost humiliating. it always felt like trying too hard. sem, from i know of you, you are an outstanding human with A LOT to offer... much more than your average bear. i hope you have a lot of fun with this endeavor and that you find someone worthy of your affections, if not just your friendship.

It's a pity we can't write references. But then again, maybe the constant asssex references might be a bit much for the uninitiated. But then again again, you don't want a girl who doesn't laugh at butt jokes. Actually, you might want to rush out and put that in your criteria. I know you're doing the smart thing, but it seems such a shame that it's a stranger setting you up. Damn, I'd love to matchmake you. Of course, you'd have to give your first born child to me for a year so I can Australianise them, but who doesn't want a kid that can say things like "that looks like a dingo's breakfast, ya mug"? (p.s.: don't forget, they're lucky to be getting you and don't settle for less than someone who thinks you're the archaelogical discovery of the century)

i've had a few crappy experiences w/ the personals, but most of them were kinda fun. the worst experiences involved getting hooked up w/ serious rednecks...one guy kept talking during our dinner date about wanting to beat up women. then he attacked me in the parking lot of a nightclub. exceedingly uncool. when ren answered my ad, though, i knew that i'd found my match. he wrote me a goofy letter. i wrote him a goofy letter back, w/ a feather pen on a hugeass scroll. it developed into the silliest ongoing correspondence of my life. in college, i used to chronically run personal ads. you could win a prize at certain papers for having the funniest ad of the week. i cranked 'em out so i could win the free food & stuff (starving college student, etc). the deal, though, was that you had to claim your prizes WITH a date. so i ended up dating a pretty bizarre cross-section of humanity in the name of free munchies. BTW, i often mentioned the church of the subgenius in my ads. honest to "bob". i figured that if it scared guys off, it'd be guys who didn't deserve to take me out for free food, anyhow.

Wow, free munchies for personal ads, I like it. Sem, I think we should definetly be allowed to write referances. I'm sure they'll turn out very well...At any rate, I wish you good luck with a dating service. It must seem really surreal to go in there and pore over videos of cute chicas... I love the personal ads up here because it's half a page of girl seeking girl, half a page of boy seeking boy, and about a quarter of a page of boy seeking girl and vice/versa...Oh, and there's the "senior" ad section, which is really hysterical.

"Archeological find of the century..." Is that a reference to my age or my state of cleanliness? Once I do finally get a positive response, I will take advise on what would make a good first date type thing to do...

Well, got my first rejection, anyhow. M. put me down as not her type. I get the feeling I'll be getting a lot of "not my types." Neither of the other two have responded, and haven't been selected myself yet. Starting to get uneasy about my chances.

well your "type" i suspect is not one you would find in a dating service mister sem. ya think?

i agree sem, your type is in the west indies. she's got stuff to do right now but you'll run into her when the time comes. it will be a couple years at least so don't go wasting yourself on those who don't deserve you.

tis is what sem wants to hear after he spent $3499.99 on this dating service crap.

sem, you should take notes on this. it would make to be a great story, i'll bet.

we could blow smoke up his ass if you prefer nate.

whatever chokes your chicken, patty. i could care less.

I have told Cat that I'm all down for finding Sem a woman,she's in Costa Rica and I'm going to find her,J loves you Sem,you know that?

Type hell. I'm one of a kind, dumbasses. Although there were a few women I thought I could be their "type" but they were unavailable. Tomorrow never comes, don't ya know? Hell, if all I get out of this is some badly-needed dating practice, it will be worth what I spent (actually less than what Nate quoted, since I talked them down to a non-disclosable amount).

for the record, that's what i was trying to say.

sem, make sure they all are UFO abductees and kabalists, and there's certainty of a good time. have plenty of money on hand. dating is expensive. my sponsor -- once he got off the celibacy is good for me kick -- told me to ponder ideas often feared, often hidden, and thus the project of non-dating no-expense absolutely-no-expectations relational activities commenced some time afterward. i still am reeling from the two years of celibacy. go for it.

kabalists and good time are mutually exclusive.

update: So, I get the little card in the mail that tells me that I have been selected by someone. Alright then. I go to the place to check out who it is, and of course, it's a lady who is almost old enough to be my mom. Christ. So I said I was not interested in meeting her. I ended up picking another girl, S., who is a nurse and seems pretty cool and nice. A little taller than me, but pretty good looking and only a couple years older than me. We'll see how that turns out. Please, don't keep yourselves from laughing.

i think you should have gone out with her

yeah...why not.

Pardon me for seeming crass, but you didn't see what she looked like.

i have a suggestion for you, sem: nerve.com my friend is currently getting massive action from that website. it's probably a hell of a lot cheaper than your current thing, too. if you don't find anyone to date, you'll at least find some good email pals. you can read about darren's adventures on the blog: http://www.torturechamber.com/agatha/dumbass.html

yeah....i hang around there a lot....people are hooking up left and right. i have a friend there, who hooked up with a girl in NZ.....they had an online romance for months. He finally left for NZ and isnt coming back anytime soon. nerve is helping people get laid worldover.

I'll check it out soon, I promise. That's neat there, agatha. I would ask how one posts on your blog, but I spend too much time doing that here as it is, and I do have some work to do from time to time.

that's not my real name goddamnit!

Damn, no one warned me that nerve.com was a website I couldn't view at work! Damn.

really? thats too bad. its not THAT bad. the photo galleries, which are a small portion of the website are all done my major, professionally respected photographers, otherwise its all columns and articles.

I find that if I quickly click on personals, it's less nasty. still, having tits on your screen (even down in the corner) in a female dominated workplace is risky. So, I put up an ad there. interesting site. didn't buy any credits yet, think I will wait off on that, as it violates my credit card cease-fire.

I'm in the nerve personals. I'll hook up with ya semmy. I have an addiction to personal sites really. It's kind of funny. I prefer meeting potential dates through the net than say a bar or something like that. I meet people in bars, but they're never the type I really wanna get close to. We exchange numbers and we never call. Through the net, I get to be picky. Selective. I find geeks like me. I don't want cool people. I want dorks. Lots of em'. Actually I've been talking to this super hottie from nerve that lives in Alexandria. Too bad I've sworn no more boys from out of town. And no more boys with kids. And no more boys that are/have been married. Oh. And he's gotta like canolis.

What happened to what's his face? Does anyone get annoyed when someone else calls a significant other (current or not) "what's his face?" I ask merely for information. Yeah, i wish I had known about this nerve thing before I dropped all that money on teh dating service. I'd have a ticket in hand for n'awlins right now, for one thing.

sem, have you ever heard of a guy named frederick starr? he was either an archeologist or sociologist in the early 1900's?

Not ringing a bell. Why?

i'm looking at a whole lot of books by him right now. he seems pretty cool.

What does he write about?

SEM! A dating service?????! Podling, I wd soooo date you -- for free. All it'll cost you is plane fare. Providing you don't mind someone's who's 40. (But I've been carded at 2 bars in the last 5 mos./believe it or not.) I think 40 wdn't qualify me as "old enuf to be yr mother" -- unless I had you when I was like, 13.) The only caveat is that you must like tequila. Straight or in 'Ritas/yr choice. Patron if we're flush/Sauza is we're slumming. It's practically all I drink nowadays. And cats. You must like & meet the approval of Six & Sebastian (who is growing into a very handsome little fella). You're just a poor grad student. How much did you pay for the privilege of all this consternation? (You know/they have online services that are free, right?) Well, be sure & refer her to Sorabji.com before you meet for yr first date. And tell her what yr screename is. ;) Am I just a dinosaur or is it really *that* hard to meet cool people nowadays - even if you're still in yr Roaring Twenties? Or is it the locale? Where are you again, Sem - Wisconsin? I swear/I'm sure I ate one of the cat's vitamins earlier today by mistake. It can't hurt me/right?

Depends,if you start coughing up hairballs,you might have a problem:)

I don't like tequila AT ALL. We do not get along. I do like cats though. I am no longer a grad student but a full time archaeologist in Columbus, Ohio. That's about all it takes to bring you up to date. Thanks for the kind words. (I'm trying to remember where I posted that "Jesus Was A DJ" transcript).

sem..whatshisface and i broke up cuz im a big weenie. sides, the whole trotting back and forth between here and d.c. got to be a pain in the ass among other things. oh, and im a commitmentphobic.

Once again, I have to say that Nerve personals are the way to go. M and I have been dating for three months now, and we're starting to talk about Future Plans, although we've agreed to table most of those discussions for another three months. This weekend, I met her cousin, who steered her towards Nerve in the first place, and got to thank her in person. Her cousin has, in her own words, "been dating up a storm" from Nerve. Being in New York helps for that. I'm all in favor of Nerve. Be even a teensy bit creative in your profile, Sem, and you're bound to get replies. I was fairly goofy in mine, but still serious enough. For what celebrity I resemble most, I put "More Ernie than Bert." Kalli, I swore off out of towners too, but it didn't take. Mostly because it only took me a few weeks to talk to or decide to pass on everyone in my area.

I took Crimson's advice to heart in it. I had to use a 3-year-old photo, though, but once you get past 25, you don't look much different I think. It does seem like there are a lot of very interesting people there.

There are. Unfortunately, none of them are in Dallas. I've had a Nerve personal (actually, a Salon personal, but it's the same thing) for a couple of months, but I've only gotten one reply. It was from a spam-bot...

i hear the guys never get any responses, while girls get flooded. usually skeezy. i have quite a few personal LA friends that are very interesting sem. I can guarantee they are more interesting than the people at the dating service. look at the featured writers and photographers they feature. thats how I found nerve...looking for a particular photogaphers work. it draws a certain demograhic sem, and I would think that demographic is what you want.

i hear the guys never get any responses, while girls get flooded. usually skeezy. i have quite a few personal LA friends that are very interesting sem. I can guarantee they are more interesting than the people at the dating service. look at the writers and photographers they feature. thats how I found nerve...looking for a particular photogaphers work. it draws a certain demograhic sem, and I would think that demographic is what you want.

shit

what?

show us yer ad, sem

Why not try and guess which one is me? it's sort of obvious from the nickname, though.

I'm searchin and I can't find ya. Dammit. I'd waste a credit on you. ;) mine's barefoot_geek

llamaboy is me.

damn semmy. yer a cutie. i thought ronald mcdonald already was in black sabbath...

You should see the pciture, it's the size of a movie poster and done in coloring book style... You're pretty cute yerself, ya know. As far as celebrity resemblances go, you kinda sorta look like a punk rock Audrey Hepburn. At least from that photo.

Hahahahah I'm gonna use that! My boss told me I look like I could be Nathan Lane's daughter. And last night he told one of the regular customers that I was Jewish and they left me a bigger tip. I'm not tho. Jewish or Nathan Lane's daughter. I had <a href="http://www.endless.org/~calliope/images/glitter1.jpg">this</a> pic up but it felt too artsy. You look almost like this guy I used to date from Australia. Yer cutah' tho. He had one of those super weird shaped asses. I could never get over it.

well fuck. that didnt work. so much for my mad html skills.

yes it worked. You crazy pixie-like thing, you. I've been told I have a cute butt by one person. it's one of those things you have to take people's words for, you know?

I saw it.

saw what? sem's butt?

Hmmmmm.... I don't think I saw sem's butt. When we were at the Pirate's Alley he was on a stool the whole time. After we left I was so drunk I could hardly see anyhing...

I saw your picture you posted on this thread Kalli,your next to a shower curtain,I remember what you look like from pictures Patrick posted when you went to L.A.

what shape is a super weird shaped ass?

sorta pairy and bubbly and flat all at the same time. hybrid bootie.

Well,was it at least a functional ass?

too artsy? as if anything can be. sem, you're crazy cute. Yes, i signed up for that shit just to see you, baby. TBone is hella cute too. hella hella hellllaaaaa (everything is fucking cute, isn't it wisper?)

yeah, but I figure I must give off some weird vibe that keeps the ladies away. It's not like I walk around with a big "FREAK" sign or anything. For as weird as I can be, I think I pass for normal well.

Sem, what a cool ad. Star sign: Yeti? That's great. Any woman who wouldn't go out with you must be seriously unbalanced. It's the classic story, though......the nice guys are passed over and the jerks have more dates than they can handle.

i love it sem..... "a girl below the neck is sexy, above the neck is sexier" thats a winner big guy. when you get old and jaded like me it goes like this "a girl below the neck is sexy, a girl below the neck with a beer is sexier"

Wait a minute, aren't I a little older than you? Shouldn't I be more jaded? Jaded isn't sexy though. I thought that was a good line, too, only wish I could be spontaneous with those. One of my favorites, taken from the Hectic Planet series by Evan Dorkin: Girl: "Ha! You're funny!" Guy: "Looks aren't everything!"

Sem you ARE funny.

yeah i suppose you are a bit odler than me, but i like to pretend im a cranky, jaded old fart sometimes.

I am a cranky jaded old fart,but I can live with that.

You bet I'm a bit odler than you. I'm a bit odler than a lot of people. Pretending to be a cranky, jaded old fart is dave.'s job. You are supposed to pretend to be a cranky, jaded hepcat.

he's not pretending.

sem, i went to look at your ad. if you want my opinion, ask for it.

I'm asking. The more input from friends, the better. Don't worry about being critical.

Oh Sem,your cute and I liked your ad.Hear from anyone yet?

The ad rocked. I was really glad I read it because it made me know you better. Maybe we should all do personal ads here.

There's something kinda like that here: sorabji.com: Who are you?: Who are you?

Funny you should post that link because I always remember your line "I adore her, though she cries".

But, no one has posted there in a year.

"8. i live with my favorite woman, A. she's a cancer. i'm an aries. it's not supposed to work." i didn't work! woo hoo! i don't watch MTV anymore either! woo hoo!

Update: Finally, a woman has said "yes" to meeting me. She is a studio engineer, was trained as a kid to be a classical pianist, likes the outdoors, values friends and family, likes men who are honest and have integrity, likes football and hockey, and has a very bright smile, a nice voice, and is verrry cute. Now, I need to call her up and figure out a cool first date thing. That's where you folks can help - it's been a long time since I've been out on a date so I would like some input. I was thinking perhaps the zoo, but maybe not, especially if it keeps raining. So, Ideas? Anyone?

Having something to do as a diversion is always good. Rather than sitting across a table from each other hoping not to say something stupid. The Hocking Hills are nice. Although the drive from Columbus is about an hour. Let's see, what to do in Columbus on a first date? The zoo sounds pretty good -- maybe you'll run into Jack Hanna. Anybody you know own a boat? Go for a ride on the Scioto or Buckeye Lake. Do both of you golf? Plenty of good courses out there. Walk around short north and check out the galleries. Ooh, I know, drive up to Mohican State Park, and rent canoes from a livery, paddle down a couple miles, and they'll pick you up and return you to your car. Go to a Crew or Clippers game. The Crew stadium's supposed to be really nice. Things should be ripe soon -- you could go corn/apple/pumpkin/whatnot picking. Is the State Fair over with? That would be a thought. Or you could do the bar crawl on High Street. Past that, I'm pretty much out of ideas.

HELI-BUNGEE!!!

call my friend angry sam, who is currently producing a show to air on the WB in the fall called Elimi-date. You and 3 other guys will "compete" for her attention doing such crazy things as heli-bungee jumping, or skydiving. sorry, thats lame. why not bowling, or head to a pool hall. something a little competitive, but something to laugh over...nothign serious. If she likes hockey and football, chances are she'd love to play pool over beers. skip the zoo idea. thats corny. hmmmm if i were to go on a date tonight....what would i do. A totally different person. hmmmm i know this great spot by burbank airport where you can literally sit on the sidewalk about 200 ft from the end of the runway. When winds are right and planes are on approach from that direction...landing jets literally blow just a few hundred feet above you. thats exhilirating. nico would be pretty bored by this....and maybe its just me thats finds this cool. i love drives in the hollywood hills, at night. if it were a day time date....i know a mountain nearby...Mt. Pinos....elevation about 7,000ft i think. I know a spot i can drive to and walk another mile up and the view of the San Joaquin valley is stunning. Id have to take big stick in case mt lions wanted to eat me. hmmm i don't know whats interesting around you sem. any parks? good hikes?

ASSSEX!!!

I'm going to look in the free papers that come out today for events. I also will ask her what she would like to do. I don't think the zoo is corny, Patrick. Think about it. it's activity, as opposed to dinner-and-a-movie, which is sitting on your ass. lots of topics for conversation already there, which might help in those spots where conversation lapses. Although, it might be something to save for a follow-up date, if I am so lucky. Any of the sorabji ladies care to weigh in?

Ice skating! If you're good at it and she's not, you can gentlemanly escort her around the rink, maybe copping a feel or two here and there when she falls and you try to save her. Or you can pretend to be a total klutz, and that might enamour you to her by bringing out her protective side, and also maybe you can cop a feel while you're falling.

sem, have you ever noticed that in numerous romantic comedies some guy will take the advice of friends and it always fucks everything up because the girl is interested in the guy, not the guy's friends?

i don't know if they have such things in columbus, but if there were some sort of old movie or play in a park. it's cheap and kind of romantic and i don't know. then you could go out for a smoothie or ice cream. mmm... ice cream. i called a personal ad once, they didn't call back. maybe it's because i sound like i'm 9 years old on the phone.

Yeah, but hey, I'm really rusty at this. This will be my first real date in years. The only suggestion that has appealed to me so far has been visiting art galleries. I have also considered going to COSI (the science museum), checking out some live music (hence the need for the free papers), etc. I still think that maybe the best idea is to ask her waht she wants to do first, then if she draws a blank, stick my ideas out there. I don't know, I'm in the dark about this.

think outside the box. zoo, art galleries are all dating things. i suppose playing pool is too, but it lacks pretension i think. something else i thought of....but its exclusive to LA....a Bukowski bar tour. if i were to date and the girl was down with that......man....

maybe ask her what she wants to do...while realizing that she may, in fact, have plans for you. i personally tend to have backup plans for dates, in case a guy doesn't have a clue. him: what do you want to do? her: um, i dunno. what do YOU want to do? you can burn a whole freakin' hour this way if you're not careful. i like it when a man's got a plan. but in case he doesn't, i always have a few plans of my own. the zoo or museum sounds kind of cool to me, but that's just the kind of mutant i am. i could hang around zoos or museums for hours. it beats the ho-hum impersonal sitting-in-the-dark gig at a theatre. plus, w/ a museum, you can find out if she's an airhead. if she gets bored within 10 minutes, beware. take her to a museum. feed her something. ask about her yeti heritage. above all, have fun.

i would tend to agree with the walk around and look at things type dates. you can always break uncomfortable silences with things like "hey look, a rhino!" also, i tend to like to have sex within, say, 5 hours of meeting someone. if you have expectations like that, you should make them clear to her before your date.

have a plan maybe don't go to the zoo, it's kind of related to things you do when you have children be assertive- have a plan tell her the plan show up on time, not early. not late. it you go to an art museum and she happens to be totally not interested it could be very uncomfortable and boring unless you've already hit it off really well so it doesn't matter, or you're very charming and entertaining. talk to her now, get an idea of things she likes to do. football and hockey liking are a pretty good clue, unless you can't stand the idea of going to a game. i'm just going to assume that you're ignoring that sex advice.

i don't know.... i kind of like the zoo idea. most everyone likes the zoo and the rhino distractiosn could be helpful. and you can usually get ice cream at the zoo.

You could always throw mayonnaise-smeared bologna slices at each other's naked ass cheeks. That'd be a lark, and it would probably ease any first date tensions you both might encounter.

So, the consensus is that the man should plan the date? What century is this, again?

alright!!!! cranks up gender debate generator

if he's asking her, he should plan it just my opinion. having considered everything is an indication that he feels that she would be important enough to, uh, consider everything. it's not that hard.

do whatever listen to someone who complains about his dealings with women or listen to women who have experience and many friends with experience, and opinions about what things make a good impression it sounds fucking old fashioned, but guess what, it is specifics are up to you, if you want to see her again, do what you think will make her feel special my guess is that calling up and saying 'uh so, whatdya wanna do?' won't exactly do that. it's a totally different situation from going out with someone you've already known.

i would say go to something mostly quiet, like an art filrm or something, then go for coffee afterwards. keep it fairly short, but try to keep a nice conversation going. if she mentions something that's going on in the area that you're interested in too, leave time open for after the date in case you decide to extend it. but keep the planning short so you can both bail if you feel uncomfortable.

"if he's asking her, he should plan it" I don't know who asked who. Do you? "having considered everything is an indication that he feels that she would be important enough to, uh, consider everything" So, does that mean that the woman on the date doesn't think anything of the man? She doesn't have to consider anything, so he's not that important, right? "it sounds fucking old fashioned, but guess what, it is" Gee, I think my date should wear a corset. Whaddya think, heather? I assume that the "someone who complains about his dealings with women" you're referring to is me, heather. Yes? Well, you're quite the uppity woman, aren't you? I know it's fucking old fashioned of me to say so, but sometimes women need to be put in their place...

HEYYYYYY how come no one listens to the married guy? Stay away from films period. Its entirely UNinteractive. Coffee will make you jittery, and you may already be jittery and give you funky breath too. My first real date with nico involved playing pool & pinball and going for pizza afterwards....and then back to her crib to watch Kids in the Hall reruns drink wine and then having sex.

Anyway, to stay on thread, I think the museum is a great idea. Also, leaving it open ended, but having possibilities in mind, is good.

what's up your ass? no, i don't know if he's asking, that's why i mentioned it. he's the one that asked for suggestions. "So, does that mean that the woman on the date doesn't think anything of the man? She doesn't have to consider anything, so he's not that important, right?" of course not, i didn't even remotely imply that, nor do i remotely think that. jesus. corsets could be cool, will you wear one too?

heather....i can tell you, one of the many complications of men/women relations is knowing WHEN to be "old-fashioned" and when to be progressive. you guys want it one way sometimes and another way at other times. its perfectly understandable, each one, on an individual basis, such as this. Just realize you are confusing the fuck out of a lot men along they way.

I'd pay money to watch Antigone try on a corset. I think he'd agree with me the vast possiblities for humor in that situation. I agree with patrick with the movie deal. Non interactive is bad. However, if she wants to go to a movie, then.... so, anyway, we will see, hmm?

what's her name?

Ditto on what patrick said. I was just too irritable to say it. "i didn't even remotely imply that, nor do i remotely think that. jesus." Sure, you implied that. You said "man not plan = man not care." Doesn't that imply "woman not plan = woman not care"? And, I'm happy to wear a corset. I can wear pants with a 34" waist when I wear a corset and that annoyingly persistent buble of fat around my stomach doesn't stick out. Not that I know this from experience, of course...

"listen to someone who complains about his dealings with women" Hmm, I thought that was about me until I read further down. Actually, it still could be, because heather didn't respond about that sentence when Antigone threw it back. I really am gung-ho on that bologna idea though.

oh brother. you're just like pulling my chain now, right? no. if he asks- then doing all the planning is ONE WAY of making his date feel good and appreciated. if you think that cliche stuff like opening doors won't have a positive effect on things, just try it. if a woman is asked out then there are completely different things she can do. she, however, is not here and has not asked, 'what to do when a boy asks you out.' take me out. i'll show you. and for clarity, it has nothing to do with sex.

Go to the zoo. The zoo is an excellent place. Better yet, if you know someone who works at the zoo, get a behind the scenes tour. That's even more exciting, especially if it's a vet, because he'll say things like: "we can't get these monkeys to stop assfucking in public." I admire a man with a plan, since I rarely plan past breakfast.

I think you should stand her up, but be there, watching from a corner of the room. Then follow her home, and leave small dead animals on her doorstep several times a month for the next year. Peek in her windows. Break into her house when she's not home and go through her drawers. Install hidden cameras. Or pool and coffee is good. Or tea or wine or mason jars full of whiskey. Beverages seem to be the thing. Or maybe a pool as in swimming, and earlier in the day. Bring some beachballs or something. Then you can show off your diggin' muscles. Follow it up with some sandwiches in a small, open sandwich shop while your hair's still wet and lay some subgenius on her. Smile a lot. Give her the beachball as a gift.

"estez ez una zoologico" the only spanish sentence i know. but just do something that will keep you busy and be a sweetie.

I ain't just yankin' yer chain. I'm genuinely miffed. (A rare thing for me, I know...) I see all of these independent, thinking women post all sorts of things on so many topics here. Then dating comes up and ya'll say, "I love it when a man plans things for me to do." What a cop out!

if a man doesn't have a plan, i'll make one for him. it's kinda nice if the man or woman who actively asks you on a date has some clue as to what they'd care to do. if they can't figure it out, though, i'm perfectly capable of figuring it out for them. it's just kind of awkward when two grown adults stand around saying, "what do YOU wanna do?" all night long. it seems nice when a person comes to your door with a plan. but then again, the plan isn't exactly carved in stone. it's a set of suggestions, not the 10 commandments. maybe his plan sucks, or maybe yours does. that's why he has a plan & you have a plan. together, something might actually get accomplished...or you can hang around until cobwebs grow on your shoes saying "but no, really, what do YOU wanna do?" until the end of time.

GO SEM!!!! woo wooo!!!!

antigone, you big pussy. this isn't about equality. it's about getting sem laid. for chrissakes.

Yeah, why must you be so Intalekshul about stuff, huh?! So, I called up last night and got the answering machine. Left a short message and now we wait. I'll call again if she doesn't call back today.

oh man. don't leave messages. never leave messages.

Eat my cock.

I couldn't find "Intalekshul" on Google... Nate, you wartcock, I'm not talking about equality. I'm talking about balance. Crimson is cool.

i would like to be asked to the zoo and have a picnic, and then go out for coffee and dessert if it was going well, but i'm not like the others. frame like so: "i was thinking that it had been a long time since i had gone to the zoo, but if you have something in mind that you've really been wanting to do, i'm open to suggestions." suggestion + open ended possibility. voila. no charge. dave and i walked about fifteen blocks on our first date deciding where we wanted to eat. no decision=bad!

balance, equality. you're mincing words. the fact of the matter, antigone, and something you have to realize to keep your cock wet, is that women are in control. we have to appease them to get what we want.

MY FUCKING HEAD HURTS YOU ASSHOLE SHITBAG NUTJOB RIMSACK JIZZMONKEYS!

i bet i drank more than you did last night, and i'm fine. you're a bigger pussy than antigone.

Nate, I've had my fill of controlling women. If I have to be celibate for a few years to find someone who isn't controlling and judgemental, then so be it. I don't have to keep my cock wet.

nate, you're so full of shit sometimes. i can never figure out if you actually believe half of the shit that you say. not all women are controlling. saying something as general as that is just stupid.

doubtful fucknuts. lets see....while we are comparing manhoods...lemme just add it up. one beer when i got home from work. one beer picking up chris, to take him out for his birthday. 2 gin tonics over dinner 1 beer after dinner 2 beers at my house over bong hits 3 beers at the next bar. hmmmmm....not so much in hindsight. i dunno why im in so much pain. maybe those two gin and tonics in the mix. i really didnt want to go out to the second bar. i was soooo tired. we closed the joint down. i suppose thats the problem. must sleep.

i know man. me too. i'm only half serious. you're obviously full serious. i think it's about picking your battles. entering into a caring relationship is about taking extra effort to make the other happy. having a plan for a date is a relativly easy way to make someone happy. at least, it beats alternatives such as walking fifteen blocks before you can eat (smooth move, dave.) things like pulling out a chair or holding a door is polite. it makes women feel special. women like to feel special. yes, it is a throwback to a past time. women don't often pull out chairs for men, but when's the last time you had to swallow semen? the trick is finding the balance, i agree. but it is much better to go out of your way to make someone happy, and find balance at that level. it is our [as men] acceptance of the emotional controlling bullshit that allows women to maintain prevalence these kinds of relationships. you're right to not participate. but someone who appreciates you planning a night out or opening a car door isn't necessarily someone who is going to ride your ass for stupid, irrelevant bullshit for the rest of your life. in fact, she might be someone who makes your biscotti for no reason. and you'll like that.

i know man. me too. i'm only half serious. you're obviously full serious. i think it's about picking your battles. entering into a caring relationship is about taking extra effort to make the other happy. having a plan for a date is a relativly easy way to make someone happy. at least, it beats alternatives such as walking fifteen blocks before you can eat (smooth move, dave.) things like pulling out a chair or holding a door is polite. it makes women feel special. women like to feel special. yes, it is a throwback to a past time. women don't often pull out chairs for men, but when's the last time you had to swallow semen? the trick is finding the balance, i agree. but it is much better to go out of your way to make someone happy, and find balance at that level. it is our [as men] acceptance of the emotional controlling bullshit that allows women to maintain prevalence these kinds of relationships. you're right to not participate. but someone who appreciates you planning a night out or opening a car door isn't necessarily someone who is going to ride your ass for stupid, irrelevant bullshit for the rest of your life. in fact, she might be someone who makes your biscotti for no reason. and you'll like that.

and agatha, i said women are in control, not that they are controlling. in general, women are controlling. how often do you tell dave to do something he doesn't want to do? women, in general, in long term relationships, call the shots. in general. in general.

he's in one of his moods agatha.....antagonistic. my head hurts. i hated to depart the girls warm bosom. so nice in the bed this morning. must sleep its friday before a week out of town. both bosses are gone. tappa tappa tappa tappa tappa women like to control the sex. you control the sex whether you like it or not though agatha.

"i know man. me too" that was to antigone. i drank six when i got home, a pitcher of stout over dinner, a couple more when i got home. plus bongloads. sounds about the same. i bet it was the g&t. or lack of sleep. i've got the irish brothers staying with me. they never stop.

the irish bros.? thats a funny image.

Thanks for going through the effort to type that out twice Nate. :-P Look, I'm not arguing against doing nice things. I have no problem with planning a date, either. What I have a problem with is the "I want a man who will plan our date" / "I hate it when a man tells me what to do" double standard, and every other double standard I see every fucking day. Anyway, since this IS a thread about sem's date, all I can say to you, sem, is this: follow your heart and let that show. If she likes it, fantastic. If she doesn't, too bad, it wasn't meant to be.

be sure and get the towel afterwards. they like that. they like it when you clean up after yourself, even if you do trip and bust your head on the hi-fi getting up cause you got jelly legs.

To reiterate what others have said: there's a difference between planning a date and telling someone what to do. One is a suggestion and the other is a command. Sem: regardless of what you do on your date, make sure you talk.

it's all about setting expectations. walking 15 blocks with no plan sets the bar real low. it's why i dislike the traditional job interview -- do they really expect that i'm gonna dress like this and act like this if i get hired? same thing goes for first dates. women and managers get all chubbied out watching people jump through their hoops. perform! perform! bah. by the way, if you didn't already know this, agatha exaggerates like a fisherman. it was only 8 short blocks. 5 minute walk by yourself or 10 minutes on a date.

i agree with you, antigone. about the double standard. it's because women aren't quite ready for primetime. pure equality sounds like a great idea, but in practice it doesn't really fit the female psyche. IN GENERAL, AGATHA. NOT IN ALL CASES. THIS IS MY OBSERVATION. but like you said, this is about getting sem laid.

Well, I can't agree with you, Nate, if you're implying that men are more mature than women. Nobody handles the idea of balance or equality well.

eight short blocks. bah. it's true though, i did know what i was getting myself into. i am totally not in control in our relationship. at all. the best way for me to get dave to do something is to think it for a long time and then maybe he might eventually do it. if i tell him to do it, forget it. i lose.

denny, harvard, broadway, john, thomas, harrison, republican, mercer, roy. 9 blocks. i do things, just not every damn thing. she just always wants to do things that she can't do by herself or, worse yet, wants to do things that aren't at all well thought out. if i didn't put up resistance, i'd be reduced to her personal servant which would be ok if i was getting a decent wage for all my effort.

Dave, I would kill you if I were Agatha.

oh shush spider. controlling woman, won't let a man breath. a MAN'S got to breath girl. mmmhmmm go on dave. i hear ya.

nico is in control of our relationship too, though, like agatha, would never cop to it. the notion makes her uneasy. instead she likes to point out how controlling i am, but only over superficial things. things that dont really add up. but when it comes to the things that do...its always me kissin ass, appeasing, getting on my knees. dictating the terms of the romance.

that's right, patrick. i got me a new set of 6 point sae deep sockets the other day and a cobalt 3/8 drill bit and a 7/16 tap so's i could drill out the bolt i busted off the 390 last weekend. goddam bolts are harder than a woodpecker's lips.

jeez patrick, if you'd just shut up every once in a while, somebody might be able to get a relevant word in -- edgewise or otherwise. know anything about carbeurators?

naw man. crackpot.

cocksnot.

i'm just wondering where my big rants about men controlling me are. it was about someone asking someone on a date. someone you've never met. maybe she'd prefer if he walked up and smacked her in the jaw, but i'd say the chances are lower. i'm sorry if i struck some kind of cord with you but i don't think you're talking about me. i do not want to control, i do not want to be controlling. just because i might need to stand my ground on something doesn't mean that you need to go along with it.

if you are in control of yourself, nobody else can control you.

sem, did you get a call back?

dave is totally full of shit.

Yes, I did get a call back, and all my ideas became irrelevant, as the only time we can meet is Monday night (she and some of her friends are driving up to Detroit today for the Madonna show). We talked on the phone for like 45 minutes. We are probably going to grab a bite to eat and do a gallery hop. She likes to collect art so I think that was a good suggestion on my part. I tried finding a good place to eat near the gallery district but, for some odd reason, there is like only one within walking distance. I may suggest meeting at a different spot then driving together to the galleries when I talk to her tomorrow. There's a romantic little greek place that I would like to take her. She has a crazy schedule because she's the radio producer for all the home games for the Columbus Bluejackets, the new NHl expansion team. so, she works a lot of nights and weekends and stuff. I told her I have sort of the same problem in that we often have to go into the field for ten day stretches and such, but a lot of time we work five-day weeks when it's close to home. I'm not sure how well the whole phone thing wnet. Maybe I am being overly critical, since we did talk for so long, and she did say she had a bad day at work. Monday will be my day to shine. In other sem-date-women news, I went to Dick's Den last night after the phone call and met up with a couple guys from work. Miracle of miracles, there were actual single women there, both of whom were attractive. I even got to dance with one (see WAYD for that story). Could Fortuna's wheel be swinging up for the semillama?

a radio producer eh? that sounds like it would be a fun job. and this probably sounds trite, but there's no use in being critical of yourself. just be a gentleman, be kind, be fun... be yourself. and have a good time. that said... does it worry you that she's a Madonna fan? i mean, not that it *should* worry you. personally i think Madonna's got it goin on, esp in the last 5 years or so. but you seem like you might be expressly Anti Madonna. of course, what would i know. well. it's just music. i should talk... kevin is a indie pop FANATIC, especially british, and i like very little of it. i find most of it so bland and over produced. when he comes over i'm usually playing james brown or tribe or the roots (thanks swine, wherever you are...) or maybe neo-hippie rock or folkie women stuff. so there you have it. anyway, i hope it turns out to be an interesting adventure in dating. i think your date idea sounds cool.

Actually, I really admire Madonna. I think she's really creative and rocks out. Plus she's dead sexy. So, the date idea was shit-canned. Turns out she's got a really busy week and wants to keep things low key, so we are just going to meet for coffee instead. Updates tomorrow.

hell yeah she's sexy. and here's one of the things i love most about Madonna: she's from Detroit. and moreover, she went to Adams High in Rochester, which must have proven to be one of the most boring, ultra whitebread childhoods imaginable. which is fine for some folks, but probably not at all for her. no wonder she R-U-N-N-O-F-T ** to new york and lost her shit. coffee sounds like a good start, btw. tea might be more interesting but that's neither here nor there. i'll be waiting for an update. ** name that movie...

Yeah, I remember driving by that high school in college, with a girl I had a debilitating crush on, who was a huge Madonna fan. Tea is a good idea. Green tea is something I've meant to drink more of. O Brother Where Art Thou?

Is there a Tealuxe near you? There's one in Boston, and I don't know if it's a chain or not. It's like a Starbucks, only they serve over a hundred different kinds of tea and good scones.

Nope, none in Ohio. My condolences.

I've been getting into tea more when I go to the Raven... They've got a very excellent collection of loose teas. They're cool about refills too. Once you get most any bevarage, you can get "refills" for 25 cents for the rest of the night. It doesn't even have to be the same bevarage. You can only get coffee or tea refills, but if I get a quad espresso, I can spend the rest of the night drinking drip coffee and good tea for a quarter per cup. The owner knows that I like to do that, and will let me get refills before the espresso if I don't feel like having it until later. They've got an excellent Jukebox and very nice pool tables as well. Damn. Why do I always get a hankerin' to go down there on Mondays. That's the one day they're closed.

mmm strawberry mango tea

it's time for fruit. fruit is needed.

Hope it was pleasant or better, sem.

Yee-haw!! She wants to see me again! We talked for three hours. She produces the music for Blue Jacket games. She's really cute. and nice. and she has a punk rock barrista cousin who gave us free coffee. I think we're getting together sometime next week, according to her schedule, which is pretty crazy due to her job.

awwwwwwww....

cool! now sem, i want you to gush even more, so you sound like a teenage girl.

YAHOOOOOOOOOOO!!for Sem!!!!!! See,you WOWed her,with your charming,boyish,sincere,humourous,great guy,fun to be with, self. Good work!

Did I? She did most of the talking. Not that I didn't try to talk, but she really likes to talk. Which is good, because I could show off my good listening skills, such as maintaining eye contact and slight mimicry of postures. She's quite the adventurous one, just went water skiing for the first time and mentioned a desire to skydive (why anyone would want to jump out of a perfectly functioning plane, i don't know...) She's shorter than me, which is cool, because I don't get to feel tall often. She smiles a lot and has very pretty eyes. She has unique facial features, something I like. She's very self-confident and smart. I like her. I think she likes me, too. How's that for gush?

did you show her your tatoos?

excellent. elle ressemble à du who'd de type vont plutôt pour une hausse qu'observent un film.

pez, did you do that french yourself, or with a translation site? not that i'm one to criticize people's french. well, not anymore.

i used babelfish. i don't remember much french even though it's only been a year.

Babelfish retranslates that as: it resembles who' D of the type go rather for a rise which observe a film. So what was it originally? No, I didn't. Not yet. When it comes up, I'll show her my inky flesh.

Well done Sem! la ululación, lo mira aparecería yo puede hablar a español así como el resto de usted que no lo haga y babelfish justo del uso

sweetness! let us know when and what the second is going to be. :)) if you find yourself in the position of removing clothes, whether to show her your tattoos or otherwise, i'd say you're doin' real real gooooood. kevin didn't see one of my tattoos - didn't even know it existed - until the first time we made love. that was kinda funny.

Hopefully the second will be tuesday night, other wise it will be two weeks. Just got a call from my boss and we are flying to South Carolina on wednesday for ten days, we get four days off, then down for ten days again. So, hopefully she's free Tuesday night....

no reply to phone messages yet. Am I just being a little too concerned that it's bad to leave for ten days right at point where you are trying to figure out if the person is worth seeing some more? (Speaking about her perspective, not mine, because I am certain I would like to see her some more) Should I relax a little?

yes.

yes, yes

Ok, so she called here at work about twenty minutes ago, but had an emergency come up right when I picked up the phone and has to call me back. The fact that I didn't give her my work number and that she remembered where I worked from tell her once is a good sign, ya think? (Still, i got all jittery right before I picked up that phone let me tell ya!!)

Fuck!!!!! FUCK FUCKFUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK!!!!! (sigh) fuck.

WHAT?

dating sucks. anyone who enjoys that shit is fucking psychotic.

damn right. hang out with an old friend, discover your genitals can be as friendly with their genitals as your brain has always been with their brain. stay comfortable but add sex into it, like hot dogs in your mac and cheez. stay away from dating strangers. dating strangers is bad.

sex with friends doesn't work either, I tried that. I'm going to South Carolina now and dig some holes. god damn it.

Tell her you just had a crazy idea and ask her to come down to SC for a weekend. I did that with an old girlfriend whom I had only known for a week at that time -- I had to go to Puerto Rico on business and invited her down, worked like a charm.

That is a crazy idea. Won't work. I am working constantly, she is working constantly. Trust me, I know when a woman is telling me she isn't interested anymore. I used to feel sad when that happened, now I just get frustrated and a bit angry at the world. Talk to you all in a day or so when we get settled in.

what exactly has this woman told you that makes you think she isnt interested any more?

Maybe you're just being paranoid.If she went to the trouble of remembering where you work,and looking up the number,to me,that would indicate interest.I know I wouldn't bother doing that about a guy I wasn't interested in.

sem, you've put so much into trying to impress her, don't you dare give up now.

"Trust me, I know when a woman is telling me she isn't interested anymore." i used to know this a lot, too. being to stupid to give up, though, i've found that it is rarely valid knowledge. in fact, usually what would screw things up is assuming you know what someone you barely know is thinking. hm. chew on that sem.

As un-usual is it will seem... I have to agree with Nate on this one.

under no circumstances should you call her again.

I think we need more info,on how the last phone call went,before we can offer sound advice. And,as odd as this seems,I too,think Nate might be right.Especially,since women and men really do think totaly differently. I know in past relationships,some issue would come up,and I'd work it all out in my mind,and then when I brought it up,the guy would be totally lost.Like,"What the fuck are you talking about?I wasn't thinking that at all." Male/female minds process things differently.So Nates right.Whats that old addage? "Assumption is the height of arrogance." We definately need more info.And if she is telling Sem she's not interested,well,then,thats her loss.I have talked with Sem on the phone,and he has a really sexy voice,and we've seen his pic,and know he's cute.So too fucking bad for her.

i dont think men and women think differently as much as we like to think. thats easy. i think we think more alike than not. the difference is lies in individuals, not in gender. i use to havea notion, that the more you talked about this kind of shit, the more you fucked up it. gut instinct. gonads and gut instinct made me plant that kiss on her.

So that's why you were arrested for sexual harrasment. Ah, thats a joke just so everyone knows.

Ah, if it was really a joke you wouldn't have to tell us that. i like how i'm right most all of the time and yet people are inclined to say things like: "And,as odd as this seems,I too,think Nate might be right." what's odd isn't that i'm right, it's that you agree with me. thank you, carry on.

Ah,and as odd as this may seem,I think Nate's right again.

No, it was a joke. I just don't want to be the start of nasty rumors. Some people can be pretty rotten. Especially outside os Sorabji Land.

If you'd read your handbook,like you were susposed to,you'd know that no rumor can be started here,without proper documentation,and prefferably,photos,to back up your claim.We need to see pictures,to make sure that claims are valid. You may send any nasty photos you have,directly to me,and I will make sure they get to the right department,to substantiate your claim. Thank you,and have a nice day.

I'll do that right away.

For instance, I haven't documented my nasty Marmite rumor yet. Thanks for the reminder...

yes. I'm waiting...

Pictures,'Tigone,we need pics!

Poor Sem! I'm glad I wasn't around here to bear witness when it was all going down. Don't despair, Podling. There's a real life Laura Croft out there waiting for you on the next dig.

Sem, lets face it you dont want a woman you want a mummy. women are precious and need to be wooed and made to feel special. Real women dont just want gifts and dinner, they want commitment honesty and a real interest in them as a person. you have to talk to women as people not as obscure objects of fantasy, read the same magazines that they do, go to the same shops that they do, look at programmes about cookery and fashion. learn how to arrange flowers. if you wnat to capture their hearts you must know how they tick. Go to a bar and just listen to their conversations. you must change your image, shave your head, wear contact lenses if you are bespectacled. wear a calvin klein after shave.dont wear underwear, dont wear sandals with socks, dont fart belch pick your nose or spit phlegm in the street. eat quiche, drink spritzers. dont eat pork rinds or drink coke. read jane austen and thomas hardy. read john steinbeck and john irving. get a cat, dont get a dog.wear a ring dont wear tatoos. most of all tell her that she is the most important thing in your life and that she is the only reason that you get out of bed in the morning. tell her that when you are uncertain you always say to yourself; what would she do now? then do it. wait and see, they will flock to you because all women are fundamentally stupid and will fall for the above tricks every time

Don't pay attention to this Newhouse jerky,wrong,wrong,wrong,especially about the pork rinds.

Yeah, fuck off. I'll admit, that hurt and it was callous and dumb of you, and I hope you inhale anthrax and die. Ok, i'm not happy today, I'll admit. I didn't realize I never posted here afterwards about that date, so I apologize. Ok, to backtrack, she told me (from what I can still remember) that she is just too busy with work and her schedule will be too much for her to date anyone, and she didn't sound very encouraging when I asked her if I could call her when I got back from SC. Which is probably ok, since I ended up not coming back for a month. Still, fuck. Also, I was there today and she has the little sticker that says she's on hold, so so much for being too busy to date. so, the score is: Sem - Zero for 24. Never have I been turned down by so many women in so little time. I'm still trying. I just don't get my hopes up anymore when I select someone. damn.

I would date you Sem. But I guess thats no big help cause I am a minor and a guy and all that. The thing is, you are just too cool for all those women thats the problem. Like "Bob" says fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. You are smart and funny. That should be enuf for any woman. But some times its not. Something is wrong with the world when smart guys can not get a date but some dumb ass redneck can. You see rednecks all the time with chix. Then again the kind of girls they date you don't want.

God this web page looks crazy with OS X. Thanks, Oswald. or maybe OS W? Dumb joke, forgive. So, I think it should be Fuck me even if you can't take a joke. But I just read this article in the latest discover about the Handicap Principle, in which males of animal species do ridiculous and retarded things, such as taunting predators, which ends up attracting females. At first glance, it doesn't make sense, but it seems that if you evolve with a big bulleyes through a mutation, but are also smart enough to get away with it, then you have a better chance of reproducing, so that mutation becomes something like a peacock tail, if you follow me. This also explains why most men like big tits and teh subsequent existence of Pam Anderson (or is Pam Rock, now?) So, if I started doing utterly retarded things such as jumping out of airplanes or driving a huge truck, that might help. Problem is, I'm too smart for that. Which is why I am sitting here alone on Saturday night while everyone else is out getting laid. Scratch that, I must be a moron because I'm sitting here alone on saturday night. Appropriately, "Shot Down In Flames" is playing on my stereo. Where the fuck is everyone?

I'm eating tofu. Just saw the movie "Donny Darko." And, I read this. Maybe I should have gone to my favorite coffee bar and flirted with the woman behind the counter. I've never seen her smile, until last night when I smiled at her. It was a durn purdy sight. I'm going to drink some more soy milk now. And take my vitamins. And read my book. And go to sleep.

I got drunk by myself on Saturday night. Accidently. Thats how cool my life is. To have a non-loser hit on me is my new goal.

"This also explains why most men like big tits and teh subsequent existence of Pam Anderson" how is that, exactly? you don't want to hear my first story about breast implants, but here's my second: i saw some real life murder detective documentary show that described a case in which a woman's murder was solved because she was identified by the serial numbers on her implants. and how is 'handicap' part of the principle? purposefully giving yourself a handicap is attractive? wha?

It's bad to have a crush on a workmate aye.

Thats alright I'm still madly in love with a girl who is a few hundred miles away. I drink alone on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights. And I have no idea how to go about fixing that problem, be it do everything in my power to let her know how much I love her or... continue on my path to weekend lonelyness.

i'm never dating again. for the record.

the "handicap" part of the principle means a trait that evolved to be a hindrance to survival - like the peacock's tail, which may be showy but also makes it harder for the male to evade predators. so, just the fact that a male peacock hasn't become leopard lunch shows the female that it is the strongest, fittest male. this is known as an "honest signal" - as opposed to all the show-off stuff like taunting predators, building barrows, etc - because they are stuck with this handicap all the damn time and not just when females are around. this explains why people always tell me: "dude, you honestly need a woman."

Exactly, and big tits are the same way. You've all hgeadr the joke about Doly Parton getting 2 black eyes after going out for a jog, now imagine she was being chased by a lion. The point is, there is no functional purpose to large breasts. Small breasts work just fine in giving milk. Therefore, for there to be an innate signal in men when they see large breasts, it might be the same as the peacock's tail - here's a woman who has survived despite the extra baggage slowing her down, so to speak. Remember, these response have been evolving over millenia. That Clinton speech was fantastic. Sure beats the hell out of all this crap about evil spewing out of the Shrub's gullet. Bush may press this war, but he needs to do a hell of a lot more to quell the environment it breeds in. COnservatives may bitch about throwing money at a problem, but for some problems, that's what it takes. And isn't launching a cruise missle just another way of throwing money at a problem?

How exactly do you get accidentally drunk, moonit?

the only problem with the 'that's why men are attractive to large breats' statement is that you said it's a 'male' of the animal species thing to me, it doesn't follow the logic of the principle that men should be impressed with a woman's ability to avoid a predator whatever. who cares. people are dumb.

well, I admit I used males as an example, but there's nothing that states sexual display is a one way street. Anyone who's been to the zoo will attest to that. so, I guess that's that for having this thread stay on topic, it's one the few that haven't diverted much.

I thought it would be nice to have a quiet drink, but it ended up being several drinks. see accidently drunk. drunk enough to walk into a cabinet and knock all my cds off.

many times when i get drunk it's by accident. one tequila two tequila three tequila floor!

btw. sem, you don't *need* a woman, but you certainly deserve a rightous babe to have a relationship with. if you are forlorn over being rejected 24 times, just remember that you, my friend, are the one who should be choosy. you are special. you'll find her, she's out there - it will happen.

Sem... Give up. Thats the only way it will happen, now I realize that much of the advice I give around here is kinda passed over unless its computer shit in which case I'm taken seriously a little bit. But I'm serious give up. The minute you stop trying the minute it happens, and you can't pretend to stop you just have to stop, start hangin' out with the guys, go out for beers and pool and shit. Then all of a sudden a good looking, extreamly smart woman will hit on you. DON'T JUMP LIKE A RABID MONKEY, stand back be cool and talk with the person, after a while of talking good things will happen. If they don't, she's not worth it. I hope the best for you man, because I'm in the same seat right now, except not only am I lonely, but I know who I love and can't get that feeling out of me. Remember, give up and all will be well.

I have those socks and shot glasses Mum bought them for me last year when I was in the tequilla phase

Moonit, you must email me your address again... I'm ready to send out that package and... well... my harddrive died last week and I have no ones emails or addresses any more... I know I suck.

No, your hard drive sucks. You are not your hardware, Hal.

No, but I'm the stupid fuck that didn't back that shit up to disk like I should have. I lost so much shit because I was too fucking lazy to burn it to disk... Thats why I now have a new HD, and I just got 2k and Redhat 7.2 on it and tonight I'm doing a drive image, so if it dies again I have everything ready to go for a reload and after I get all the shit I had before I'm going to back it up immediatly... No excuses.

i am mailing out zines and goodies after i get my next paycheck.... not now because i need to pay my rent as soon as my landlord gets back from olympia. eek. i don't really mind being hit on too much, but it's almost always creepy guys from the max or the bus. i'ven't been on a date for a while though.

I haven't been on a date in years. It's wierd. Last night my dreams were like this one long porn movie. Very strange. Hal, have emailed ; )

Send me your new snail maid address Moonit,just cause I procastinate doesn't mean I forget,I have the goods now.

sem, don't take advice from anyone. especially me. except this advice. that is, the advice not to take advice from anyone. but me. in this case.

that's good advice.

havent had a date in years and dreams are like long drawn out pornos???? 2+2=4

Patrick - just left my boyfriend. You forgot that part. No I just had this weird dream the night before last

oh i wasn't really aware...i mean i sorta recall something like that being said but it didnt really pop out. so you and your ex never went out in two years?

Is it me or can no one else see when evertone posted? Hal: giving up doesn't work. I tried that. Nothing works is what I am coming to realize so I guess I'll just muddle on with my life. I need to go grab some food.

Well yeah, but thats not a date. Is it? And it was four years. Healing-wise I am feeling a little better.

I don't know when the dates stop becoming dates and become ?????? Nico and i still go out on dates. And in my mind (and i think hers too) what differentiates it is an evening dedicated to ourselves. We arent boozing with others, we arent heading to a party to meet other pals or what have you. Its an evening focused entirely on us.....like it is in the beginning of a relationship. So in my book, if you and your ex ever went out together, planned prior, the two of you....had a nice evening out....as far as im concerned its a date. I found that after 7 years we have to do this from time to time. Take a breather. Remind ourselves why we are together. Stare at each other over a nice dinner and wine. Walk tipsy hand in hand. Sit together on the couch with a movie and so on. Its so easy to get caught up in the bungle of everyday life you forget to stop, take a breather, unload and remember why you are with someone. (note to self: take your own advice cocksucker)

yeah then we did go on dates. I was thinking though of dates with new persons. It would be wierd to go to dinner with someone who has no idea about my lust for chocolate, and the search for the ultimate dessert. Or that can pick my food for me. Or knows the places to kiss that basically score a fuck. heh

Went on a date last night - with my other half. We went to see Robbie Williams in concert. Excellent show - that guy has some charisma, and he writes some catchy tunes! Not that anyone here knows who Robbie William is (except for Moonit). www.robbiewilliams.co.uk (can't remember how to make it into a link, can't be bothered looking it up)

We had a spread on him in the paper. One of the reporters spent the day on robbiewatch, her article was so funny.

i know who Robbie Williams is. Though i think his music is for wankers...i know who he is. wankers affectionately.

he doesn't do much for me either Patrick.

what DOES do something for you?

beating my ass at checkers. patrick is in a bitchy mood. i can tell.

did you read WAYD? im in a GREAT mood!

I love you Patrick.

lenny kravitz. i'm sure he'd do something for me. heh

mmm vitamins. me pee is glowing...come see! come see!!!!

I'm still in awe. We just went to see the Harness collection, property of this great 83- year-old farmer who has been collecting his property (and this is the great bit) recording where everything came from, for 30 years. I have Just unbelievable. And we are digging not a mile away from his land and we haven't found dick yet! Goddamn. I'm shakey. Shakey like being on a date.

Treasure awaits you,oh shaking seeker!

Am I reading you right, sem? Do you have a harness hard on?

And here I was thinking you were in awe of Patricks glowing pee. I need to get out more

come gather round. i have my glow-pee pill in my pocket. god damn these things are like asprin for elephants. i have to break it up to get it down....too big and tastes tooo nasty. upchuck guranteed otherwise. come gather round and see the pee glow. made i'll let some one else hold it.

update: the score is now 0 for 25. I'm still trying.

perhaps its the pond you're fishing from yo. seriously. instead of dumping money in a service that isn't working you can just start making a point of going out with a bloke or two more frequently in the evenings and on the weekends. Take advantage of the fact that your work takes you to all kinds of places. Have you checked out the bar/club scene in Columbus? The money going out could be cheaper than the money spent on a dating service. Most of my single friends here meet girls in bars (so many are meat markets here)or on the set. The love dramas on set are actually great stories.

I have a real problem meeting girls in bars, which is why i gave teh dating service a whirl. Plus, it's not a pay as you go thing but lump sum up front. I think that after the next rejection I am going to ask if I can reshoot the video and submit a new profile, because obviously something isn't working. or maybe it is the pond, I don't really know. Maybe there's just something wrong with me that sets off women's "spidey sense" or whatever. All I know is that I daily grow more and more weary of being alone.

To Women, As Far As I'm Concerned by D. H. Lawrence --- The feelings I don't have, I don't have. The feelings I don't have, I won't say I have. The feelings you say you have, you don't have. The feelings you would like us both to have, we neither of us have. The feelings people ought to have, they never have. If people say they've got feelings, you may be pretty sure they haven't got them. So if you want either of us to feel anything at all You'd better abandon all idea of feelings altogether.

Droopy, where do you come up with all this graet poetry?

online, mostly. sometimes i just start surfing for poetry like it was porn. i found that one on someone's "favorite poetry" page.

I just surfed and found Allen Ginsberg's "From Howl". It rocks. I couldn't have a favourite poetry page. It would tell everyone far too much about my soppy little soul.

goddamnit sem, you sound like me a year and a half ago. it's making me ache, i can't stand it. i'm about ready to fly up there and beat the hell out of any and every half wit woman in that godforsaken "dating service". isn't there anything else you can do? hobbies? join a team or a club? ANYTHING? if not to meet women, then just to get your mind off it for a while.

I don't really have the time for anything right now what with this crazy project and working on weekends to make up for lost time in the field due to rain. Maybe in a couple months if it slows down. I was considering a martial art, but I don't really see how I could take classes when I'm gone all the time. Not having any local single friends hurts, too, as the ones I have all are in relationships. I'll try and update on my personal life if it gets better, so as not to depress any one. Can't have that! I think I'm starting to burn out a bit.

it happens sem when you least expect.

Hal had it right, hookers are definitely the answer.

the holidays are here. it magnifies everything. maybe you are experiencing a little bit of burn out and need a break. from everything. btw, if i'm depressed, it certainly isn't because of you.

well, no, but it ain't helping you either. I tend to ignore the holidays. They really don't affect me much at all, except as a break from work. speaking of, I should go home. I also need to check in with that service to see if the latest woman has turned me down yet. I sent a "membergram" (nothing to do with penii) to her through the service stressing my finer points, so we'll see how that went over.

sem learn from the master. women are easy. just learn about the stuff they like from the dopey mags they buy. talk to them about it. tell them how fasinated you are by womens things. tell them you are a new man. pretend you have never had a real friend as a woman cos all you want is to talk. they fall for it every time.in no time they tell you all about their exes and why it went wrong. you just steer a course around their psychological inadequacies and before long they will trust you with anything. hot sex follows pretty damn quick. Oh and buy them stupid little gifts that you can invest with spurious emotional significance. Make sure any crap they get you is always on display when they come around.

coming from someone who says books are better than sex.

I find that if you ignore that sort of person, they go away.

Sem - have you tried bowling? I hate to bowl. I only go becuz I have a couple of friends who bowl. And becuz/unlike movie theaters/bowling alleys have a bar. I've been dragged out bowling 2 or 3 times in the last 6 mos. And every time/the guys were on me like white on rice! They were all way younger than me/but still - it was a nice ego boost. And I always saw plenty of groups of girls there w/out dates. Now, it only works if you suck at bowling. But trust me -- when you're a shitty bowler & don't give a rat's ass that you're a shitty bowler/& tipsy to boot/& throwing gutter balls/& being razzed by yr friends/strangers think you're just the life of the party. I can't remember the last time I was chatted up by so many men in a single nite. Grab one of yr dig mates & hit the local lanes tomorrow nite. It cdn't hurt, right?

dammit i need to go bowling

But remember, Moonit: You must Suck at bowling. And be acompanied by accomplished bowlers who will razz you mercilessly. And not care abt making a fool of yrself. (Which is prolly what attracts the fellaz.) And wear a pr. of jeans that make yr ass look good.

I do Suck at Bowling. And I have friends that would happily razz me. I constantly make a fool of myself (in kfc today tripped over the cleaning sign, which made my workmates giggle. Alot) Good looking ass jeans may be a problem. But i can do cute hair.

And Sem: I know it sounds patronizing/but being alone is NOT the worst thing that can happen to you. It sucks sometimes, sure. But yr life is paradise compared to 75% of the people on this planet who weren't born White & western & healthy & middle-class. Lonelienss hurts. But getting yr heart stomped on hurts a lot more. And you're still young enuf that you can hold onto hope. I turned 41 a couple of weeks ago. And I'm still alone. If anyone had told me I'd still be single at this age back when I was in my 20's/I wd've stuck my head in an oven & been done w/it. But back when I turned 38/I finally realized that I will always be alone. I just knew/you know? And I've gotten used to the idea. This is My Life. I've got a God who cares for & abt me/in a very real way that I can actually, palpably feel sometimes when I'm praying. I've got parents that love me & 2 cats that adore me & a home & a car that are paid for. I'm free to sit up scribbling in the samll hours of the nite/or read til the sun comes up. Or leave dishes in the sink for 3 days w/out anyone bitching at me. Or sing really loud in any room of the house anytime I want. I'm the only person I know whose friends drop by at 2am just to say hello. Becuz they know they can. And I'm grateful for all those things. I might never sell a script or get to direct. But at least I'm satisfied w/what I've written so far. Becuz I said what I wanted to say/rather than writing for the marketplace. And in my dreams at nite/my stories translate into the most amazing movies... I will prolly end up 80-yrs-old & toothless w/17 cats. And alone. But at least the choices I made/for good or bad/will have been *my* choices. Not directions I took becuz I was forced to move to the rhythms of others. Not a mess I ended up in becuz I was so terrified of being alone that I got sucked into the Everlasting Hook-up w/Mr. Wrong. Count yr blessings when you get lonely, Sem. Being a solo act can be hard/but it's a lot better than being w/someone who makes you want to poke their eyes out w/a fork every time they open their mouth.

I agree. But the heart is a fickle thing, and doesn't like to listen to logic, y'know?

Whaaaa? you mean semilama is not a guy? Lezbian alert! R.C. maybe you dont realise it dude but you are gay. Go to your bedroom and start practising with your closet.

in austin we have two movie theaters called The Alamo Draft House that show feature hollywood films and also serve beer, wine, and cocktails. there's a food menu too. it rocks. k and i saw K-Pax there. oh, and RC's right about the bowling thing. fun fun fun!

we had those in Atlanta. I miss them so much. There were second run theaters as well, so the admission was cheap. Not only can you drink, eat and smoke, you arent cramped in rows and rows of seats.

Tucker -- You're new here/so this time you get off w/a warning. You don't know shit abt me or Sem/so mindyerfuckingbusiness. Sarah: Yeah, ever since I got hip to AICN.com/it seems like Austin has become the movie capital of America. But I still can't believe NY & LA don't have theaters where you can smoke & drink.

There's one that serves wine here. The Wilma. Very old theater.

WE have Studio 35, which serves beer and pizza and because I am so lame I haven't been there yet ( actually, I hear that the sound system isn't as good as a modern theatre, and since they only play mainstream movies, well....It'd be a good place to see a movie the second time around though)

R.C. it sounds like you picked the wrong guys to go out with. Jocks and other cool dudes will only use you. You need to start with us shy nerds and geeks. Once we get it we don't want to let go. Meaning long term, if not marriage, relationships.

Once is all you will ever get it Watcher. So savour it when your mom eventually puts out for you.

Wow,I'm sure this you know from experience.

Nah J, Watchers mom is waaaay too popular with the local nigras.

They'd have to dig her up. She's been gone for twenty five years. And my wife suites me fine. However, Tucker only gets his in the bathroom. Or, he and PeWee Herman have a race at the local movie house.

Is not an issue, them black boys like it ripe. Bet your wife gets lots of practice while your back is turned too. Oh and Peewee would lose out everytime. I have learned from the experts on here. XXXXXX

So, I got a response to the nerve ad, or rather, I responded to a nerve ad and got a response back. She's an grad student (i think) who once interned as an archaeologist but got out of the field. She's cute and has long wavy brown hair and a nice smile, and likes sci-fi and history and is agnostic and likes cats. Let's see where this goes...

go sem!!

Be still my hormones.

So, she seems interested in me. I asked her if she would like to get together when I get back in Columbus, but that was just like five minutes ago via email so we'll see. WE really have a lot in common. Boy, she's cute.

go for it sem, your getting there... Now I need to try some shizzat.

So, she wants to meet and I have her phone number! Yippee! I hope. A huge grateful thing to Patrick who clued me into Nerve.

I SUGGESTED THAT. bastard. i get no respect.

SEM - Give Agatha her props! T'was she who directed you to Nerve.com. (Which I thought was primarily for New Yorkers -- but hey/it worked!) AND GUYS: HELP ME decide if I wanna go out w/the guy from the liquor store next Friday. The 2nd worse place on earth to meet someone, right? If not an AA or CA meeting/what's more embarassing than saying "Yeah, I used to see her coming into the liquor store I worked at all the time, so I finally asked her out." Already it sounds like a seriously bad idea. But anyway... His name is Ernest. (I dunno if her spells it like that or with an A.) I figure he's in his late 50's. (If he's more than 60, then fuggeeaboudit!) Dark-skinned. Divorced/kids are grown/living in Georgia now. Close-cropped salt &-& pepper hair --what you'd expect for a Brother his age. Very white, very even teeth -- prolly never smoked a day in his life. Not bad looking/but no Sidney Poitier. I've noticed he always takes time to make a little more than smalltalk with me while I'm paying for my booze. But he's been doing for at least 3 mos./so I wasn't even paying attention to it anymore. He gave me his phone# just before Xmas. Rather than asking for mine/which always leads to an immediate No from me. But he knew enuf to offer his 1st/so he gets Style Points for that. I called him last Thurs/got his voicemail/left a msg. but not my home#. (I was calling from work/so if he has Caller I.D,. now he's got my work#.) Then I saw him at the store Sat. nite. While he was ringing up my wine/I asked if he'd gotten my msg. & he said no. So I explained when I'd called & described his outgoing msg. (Hhis name & tel# aren't on the outgoing voicemail.) Turns out he'd gotten my msg. & thought it was from someone else -- I have the same 1st name as his lawyer! So we had a laugh abt that. He said he was really glad I'd really called him. I gave him my home # this time. He asked if we cd get together one evening this week. I let him know I'm off Fridays & Saturdays. He checked the schedule & he's off Thurs. & Fri. So we'll talk to each other later in the week & decide what we're gonna do. AND he cld today as I was leaving for work so I just let the machine pick it up. But what the fuck do I suggest if he asks what I want to do? My 1st thought will be to catch a movie -- but what if we don't share the same taste in movies? I don't want to go out to dinner with him becuz this is really sort of a charity date -- there's no real chemistry btwn us that I can feel/so I don't want the guy spending $$ on me. And I don't know if he's intending to pick up the tab or go Dutch/or what kind of food he likes. So I figure a movie & maybe a nightcap afterwards -- assuming he doesn't plan something outright. I have that queasy-not-good feeling abt this guy. Not not-good as in he's an axe-murderer/rapist-out-on-parole/deeply-closeted-homosexual not-good feeling. Just that sad not-good feeling I get when I say yes to going out w/someone who's prolly a really nice person/but not the sort of person that interests me. He's very... reserved. Very well-mannered. Bet he never curses. I get the feeling is gonna feel more like a job interview more than a date. I really don't see what we're going to be able to talk abt together. He was always politely inquisitive in the store/but he never really had any rap, y'know? Nothing to say abt current events/or a book he'd read/or something he'd heard on the news. I suspect once we get past the geting-to-know-you questions/we'll be stuck for conversation. Which I HATE on a date. *sigh* Maybe he'll get sick & end up in the hosiptal w/double pneumonia so we can skip this whole date thing. And what to wear???!? All he's ever seen me in are jeans & t-shirts/or shorts & t-shirts. And he *still* asked me out! I don't feel like getting dressed up just to catch a movie. But older men usually aren't into being that casual when they're out on a 1st date. I've got some decent capri pants I can wear. But it's gotten chilly hear now so I'm just want to live in my jeans & not be bothered... *sigh* help. please.

Relax. Don't stress. I don't know what an older guy likes women to wear on a first date, but I do know that if you are nervous or uncomfortable, you won't be able to enjoy yourself in even a friendship kinda way. Besides, it's a first date, not an engagement party. This should be just for fun and getting to know each other, not for anything serious. Just be you. Be comfortable. If it works out great and if it doesn't, well at least you didn't put on any false airs. Dating should be about getting to know one another on a different level then "Hey" at the liquor store. That doesn't mean it has to start off serious. That just takes all of the fun out of it. It doesn't have to start off as a "relationship". It can simply be two people getting to know each other and finding out whether or not they are compatable. Anyone expecting more, well to me at least, are moving too fast. Anyways, this is just my opinion. Good luck.

He's got good teeth.Thats always a plus. Find out what the plans are gonna be,so you can dress accordingly. You're worrying too much.You can't have fun if you stress out too much.This is not a pre-aranged marital situation. Its just the licquor store man with nice teeth.who has been kinda friendly to you for the last three months.I bet you'll have a great time. And better a man of few clever words,than some blithering idiot,babbling nothing. Have fun.

I'M SORRY. Thank you Agatha! *smooches* (I think I remember Patrick going off about nerve, is why I associated it with him.) I am about to MAKE THE CALL.

WOOHOOO.... And so it begins.... God I'm Fucking lame.

Relax. Don't stress. Right. If the point were to relax & avoid stress/I'd just spend the evening @ home w/the cats! But since I'm not all crushed-out on this guy/I think I'll be pretty low-key abt the whole thing. I've decided to suggest a movie if he asks what I want to do -- I'm dying to see Halle Berrys in MONSTER'S BALL/but I think it's still only in limited release. If it's running at the local art house/that'll definitely give us something to talk abt over drinks afterward. Or I might suggest LOTR -- that counts as dick flick/right? Anyway/I'll call him tomorrow so we can figure out where we're going Fri.

RC,I picked up a "fact filled" calander for you. Email me with your street addy,and I'll mail it off to you. Have fun on your date!

Hey Andy. I just wanted to drop you a line and say that I enjoyed meeting you. I thought we hit if off- hope you did too. I don't know if you'll be in town this weekend, but do you want to go see a movie or something? Talk to you soon, Jen YEEEEEEEEE-HHAAAAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

go, sem, go! i'm ditching work today. i've decided that i'm sick enough to not go, but well enough to clean the house. bah.

That really sounds sick. Better skip cleaning the house and go right to bed.

Yay Sem. I'm sitting here smiling like I just saw my first rainbow. I can't think of many people who deserve some lovin' more than you.

Or at least, hot oil monkey sex.

Primates pick their asses.Be careful,self proffessed finger sticker :) Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!

there is this picture, from my aunts wedding, i was the ring boy, a 3 year old patrick, in a ridiculous white short/suit set. there is one infamous picture...my family likes to insist im digging to china, but i say im just merely adjusting my underwear. eitherway, im picking my butt on the alter. Good Shepard Presbyterian was never the same.

Wow dougie has really taking a liking to my statement made about my New Years Night... "we had Hot Oil Monkey Sex."

You wouldn't consider posting that,would you? So we could all share in your adventure :)

ooops.........sorry.I meant Patricks adventure. Although,if Hal wanted to post his adventure,I'm sure we'd all give it our utmost attention.

Yeah Hal, the term "hot monkey sex" or "hot monkey love" has always cracked me up for some reason. You took it one further by adding oil to the equation.

Yeah nothing like some Hot oiled up Midget Monkey Loving.

Date tomorrow night, need to shake head cold! Damn you wee li'l beasties in my head! Damn you to hell! I'm using Zicam which seems to hurry it along its course but I didn't get out of bed until 2pm today, as I was up for most of the night blowing my nose. Anyway, we are going to try out a meexican place neither of use has been to, then a movie. I'm leaning towards Royal Tenenbaums.

Ah, young love. I remember it well. The thrill of the first date, watching every word you say and move you make, and studying hers for any hint of passion yet to come. Good luck, Sem, and have fun!

I'm thinking of a few lower budget titles. But, I'm having a weird day as it is. So you'd better forget it. At least on a first date.

Royal Tenenbaums.....YEAH!!! she will be yours forever.

Good luck sem. Dinner and a movie. Hmmmm, what happened to those days? Oh Yeah!!!! I had kids :)

CZARINA: I sent you my home addr. Thanx! SEM: Where's the cd you promised on the WAYD board? I emailed you my addr. a couple of weeks ago. And how'd you & yr date like THE ROYAL TENENBAUMS? ALL INTERESTED PARTIES: My date on Fri.was pretty lousy. And of course/the guy reallly likes me/so now I havta find a way to ditch him. 1st of all/he's a cheapskate. I ended up paying for the movie bercuz when we got to the ticket counter/he just stood there & kept asking the ticket taker how much a soda was while they guy keEps telling him "That'll be $4.25". The ticket guy was really obnoxious & must've told him "4.25" at least 3 times. (We went to the 2nd run theater/$2.25 per tkt.) But Ernest NEVER reached for his wallet. By the time the guy repeated himself the 4th time I was embarassed/so I just handed him fiver so wd cd get the damn tkts. THE HEIST was pretty good -- much better than THE SCORE. (DeNiro is abt to be on my Hack List if he doesn't get it together in whatever his next offering is.) Altho' I thought Rebecca Pidgeon wasn't really suited for the trophy-wife/scheming bitch role. She always gives a strong, smart performance/but she's just not hot enuf to make me think Gene Hackman fell for her despite her scheming ways (which I cd see comign from minute one)/or that the nephew wd fuck her/then team up w/her for a doublecross w/out being totally suspicious of the broad. But I like a nice twisty plot/esp. in a heist flick. But since Mamet both wrote & drected it/& he's married to Rebecca Pidgeon/I guess she gets 1st-refusal rights on his female leads. All of which I said/more or less/by way of general post-movie conversation. And it was like talking to one of my cats/who are at least polite enuf to feign attention & attempt a response. Ernest had no clue who Mamet was. Or even Gene Hackman. He said he "couldn't really follow" what the movie was abt but he "liked it"? I know not everybody's all abt the movies like I am. But for a 50+ yr.old guy not to know who Gene Hackman is qualifies as brain dead in my book. Even worse -- he's a cheapskate. I covered the tickets/so I had no intention of paying for whatever we got to eat or drink after dinner. There's a Mexican place right next to the theater/so we stopped there. I had a Rita & he had a cheesburger. The bill came to $13 & change. HE LEFT A $1.00 TIP! Got at least 5 singles back as change from his $20 & left a $1.00 tip on a $13 Tab. I was mortified/but I am past the point in life where I will surreptitiously augment someone else's tip becuz it was too small. Then to top it all off/he asked me for a goodnight kiss -- in my car! (It was really chilly out/so after he walked me to my car/he asked me to drive him to his car.) And when I told him no/he asked again!!! "Can't I even get a peck on the cheek." What self-respecting man does THAT, pray tell? I told him again NO, that I don't kiss on the first date, so goodnight/& he finally got the message & got the fuck out of my car. I hate it when a man asks for a kiss. If I wanted to kiss you/I'd have done it. And if you were smart enuf to pick up on the fact that I wanted to kiss you/you wd've gone for it & kissed me w/out asking. But undaunted/he made a point of asking if he cd call me so we could hang out again. And I shd've said "No, I don't think so" & cut him off right then & there. But all I wanted to do was get out of there & back home. But he called yesterday/& again this evening. And I'm sooooo turned off by this guy that I don't even want to bother telling him directly that I don't want to see him again. But I know it's cruel to ignore someone's messages until they get the point. Plus I'll also have to see him again in the liquor store. So -- got any suggestions for how to politely tell someone "You're a cheapskate, trailer-dwelling, boring old coot w/no rap & nothing whatsoever to offer/intellectually or otherwise/& I'd sooner slide down razor blades than go out w/you again." AND I'll get to tell the whole story all over again tonite @ the Queer As Folk Season Premiere Party/where Becca & Lars will no doubt grill me abt my date/becuz they were at the same restaurant in the booth behind us while all this transpired! IF ANY OF YOU HEAR ME MENTION GOING OUT ON A DATE AGAIN DURING 2002/SLAP ME! Then send me back to this thread.

Just tell him that on your date you discovered you had nothing in common and that you see no reason to bother again.Tell him you consider a first date as a test,and he flunked it.Then tell him you still think he's a friend (meaning you'll still have friendly chit-chat at the check-out counter). Or just freak him out and tell him after going out with him,you have decided you will stick with woman.And I know you aren't gay R.C,I'm just even having to mention this because some asshole accused you of that on here once.

I like the lesbian trick, it would throw me of if I were said freaky guy... Kinda shoot my whole world in flames but it would do the trick, go with the lesbian thing.

I believe he didn't know who Gene Hackman was. When I was taking classes at the local community college, many years ago, I had an English Professor who didn't know who Simon and Garfunkel were. And, she had read one of the poems "Richard Corey" that they based one of thier hit songs on. She was in her mid forties at the time. And, I wondered what planet she had been living on. I mean it was the late Seventies and she was an English Professor in her mid Forties and she hadn't heard of them!! I felt like giving her a copy of "Bookends" or "Sounds of Silence". I was so blown away. She would have to have been in a cultural vacume at the time. I felt there was no way anyone could not have been exposed to them. They had been in all the media but somehow this woman had escaped exposure.

So, the date went alright. It started out great. I picked her up at her place, met her cat, and we went out looking ofr this mexican place, but couldn't find it, so we went ot a different one. She picked up the tab, so I paid for our movie tickets (Aren't we so very 21st century?). Where it got awkward is when she got physically ill at the end of the movie and I had an allergy attack, so that the date had to end abruptly. I believe we are getting together again after I come back from this conference in Mobile this week. Sparks aren't quite lying, but it has been a little weird yet, I don't think we've gotten comfortable yet. I don't really even know if I really want to date her any more than just dating.

Do you know why she got ill? I mean, if this is going to be a regular thing...

no-o, but i suspect it was food poisoning... although you can't tell if it's going to be regular after the first time...

Well, it's a pity she got food poisoning. I guess that's a resturant you won't be visiting again soon. What movie did y'all try to see?

Damn! Having yr date get sick on you yr 1st time out together sucks! But pls. give her another chance, Sem. I'm sure she's totally humiliated. Please, please be sure to ask her out at least once more so she doesn't feel like a leper. [And WHERE'S MY CD?}

It's on the way. I did ask her out again but she's busy until after I get back from this conference.

you have to admit, that if you were to read this thread, and you read this documentation of one of the first dates since the threads inception in June and the girl pukes on the first date. Oh god thats hilarious. Oh sem my boy I know you're on your last thread, but you know, Ive learned when things start looking like a national lampoon movie things are heading for the clear. Try to laugh bucko...

Cool, thanks. Maybe there will be some hotties @ the conference. Keep us posted.

Sem,sorry about your date getting sick,but I think you did the right thing, by having an allergy attack. I think that in any etiquette book you would pick up,that would be the appropriate/politically correct response. Its always a good thing to make someone feel more comfortable in an awkward situation,and I think this just goes to show your social adeptness. And,it was a good choice for you to choose nose leakage,and leave the ass leakage for her.That way you weren't having to vie for the commode.Good manners always shine through. I can't wait for installment #2!This might be a keeper.

Well, she kissed me. How's about that? (please don't let me catch her cold though) I was at her apt. tonight with her, Ron, and her housemate and her boyfriend. We watched the uncut DVD of Dario Argento's Suspiria. And she held me hand through it. An dI pretty much had little allergy problems, even though they have one of them big poofter cats with the hair. She has a Spooky, the Thing What Squeeks! and a Lenore doll! And she reads Transmetropolitan. Wow.

You're so cute.

well, yeah, but it's about time someone not from sorabji-space recognized it ; )

Fuck all, man! Let's hear more details!

That's it, buddy. It was a goodnight kiss.

did she goodnight swallow?

Was there tongue? If so, please provide exact measurements of tongue penetration. It would also be helpful for our audience if you could indicate an approximate timeframe of the lip contact. And we will be needing to know who initiated said contact for our records. Thank you in advance for your co-operation in this matter.

Also, let's start another thread!

SEM GOTTA KISS! WHO-HOOO! (And I got the CD. S'not my kinda jams/but thanx anyway.)

Sem,I know your in South Caralina now,but I think she likes you,have you called her?

I called her and emailed her while I was there. She wasn't home when I called (she rarely is, it seems), but she did reply to an email. I called her twice yesterday but no call back. Fuck I wish it wasn't so close to Valentines Day, or "Day of DOOM" as I like to call it. So I suppose I should try and call again? Is that needy-seeming? I think it is. Damn it. Fuck I hate this. I totally sympathize with women who complain that guys don't communicate.

stop calling so damn much. and, if you do call and she isn't there, don't leave a message.

Her roommate was there. I didn't call today. Haven't heard from her yet. I'll have to ask her about this. If she just is really busy fine, but damn. I've been gone 2 weeks. I'd hope she'd want to see me.

dude, it's like that scene in fast times. you want her to think that wherever you're at, everything's fine. she will like you more if you give her the impression that your life is full and exciting with or without her. it's not being an asshole if the next time she calls, if she ever calls, you don't answer. then a couple days later, call her and tell her you're sorry you missed her call but you were hanging out with some friends or whatever. pass it off like it's no big deal and tell her you'd really like to see her again the next weekend. not that night, of the following night but a few nights later or the weekend, whichever comes later. maybe she will, maybe she won't. either way, you won't be making a lovesick puppy's ass out of yourself.

Don't listen to Dave. He's been practically married since ever/what does he know? Sem: Skip the Games. Don't try to create "the impression that your life is full and exciting with or without her." (Dave, you know that line is straight out of "The Rules"/don't you?) Don't TRY to create any impression at all -- just be yrself. Becuz 90% of the time/a guy's attempts to play Hard to Get are just as transparent -- & just as annoying -- as when women try that shit. If yr life really were all that full & exciting/it wd mean you already had a woman. No woman digs a man who makes her feel like he can take her or leave her. A woman wants a guy to show he's interested in her -- w/out crossing over into Stalker mode. And anyone who is so busy that they are never home except in the dead of night that is not in med school is suspect/IMO. It only takes 2 minutes to return a phone call. Generally/if someone's not out of town & they haven't called back after you've left 2 msgs. on 2 different days/it's becuz they really don't care to talk to you. Sad, but true. If you want to call her/call her -- but LEAVE A MESSAGE so she knows you called. If she has Caller I.D. (like practically everyone on the planet) your # will show up & she'll know you called anyway. Then she'll think you're being juvenile by calling & hanging up. I follow the 3 Strike Rule: If I'm calling a guy I like (when's the last time *that* actually happened?) I'll try to reach him 3 times & leave messages. After #3/if he doesn't call back/I stop calling. No point sweatin' someone who's not interested.

listen to dave. from what i can gather sem, she isn't tripping over herself to call you twice daily, no need to invest as much on your part.

I'm with Dave, too. Whatever happens, you do not want to look needy and desperate.

i'm with rc on the three strikes rule. wait a couple of days before you call again, and if she doesn't call you back... OUT.

and don't worry about valentine's day of all things. my god. it's just such a retarded concept in the first place. i mean, aside from the excuse to eat a lot of chocolate, of course.

Yes, I am having an anti-valentines, where I get sloshed, no doubt post bullshit, and watch movies. with lots of choccy. bliss

r.c., she's obviously playing something so it's not like he's being underhanded if he plays too. besides, my interest in this is for semillama. she can go to hell for all i care but if sem likes her, i'm just offering advice on how to take it to the next level for him. not her. my own history, if told, will reveal that i have never been the player, always the lovesick puppy. if i could transplant my nearly 35 year old brain into my 20 year old self, my history would have been way more exciting. women were so intimidating and unapproachable to me. boy, was i so completely wrong. the truth is, 99% of them are unapproachable. so what. to hell with them. they never gave a fuck about me liking them, in fact, it creeped them out. time to move on. if only i'd known. semillama, you're going about this like your looking for a wife. you need nookie, not a soulmate. you need a couple dozen different women before you get all messed up with relationship crap. women play that shit, too. play! that's what it is. treat it like a video game. you have to acquire as many hearts as you can before you can save the princess zelda.

you're looking for a wife. dammit, i hate that.

despite vast amounts of media, from 'american pie' to henry miller, actually reality concerning the people i know seems to indicate women wanting to just fuck around as much [or, i would say, more] than men. what men appear to want is a nice, steady, reliable thing- but appear [or have, even] a raucous life. my point? the women i know seem happier to be alone than the men. what does that mean? fuck if i know. i'm supposed to be doing something else other than typing my not very original thoughts. i can't believe i wrote the word raucous, i wasn't even sure that i could spell it. who talks like this? besides, i could be totally wrong about henry miller. i think i am. hey, do they drug test when you apply for most jobs or is that just home depot?

Only at the corporations secretly run by the nazis. Are you really applying at Home Depot? she left a message on my machine last night, she'll be home tonight, so we'll see what's up.

mostly they only drug test for jobs that involve using heavy machinery.

heather, nico has made that very same observation sans h. miller's involvement. all the guys she ever dated before were needy, emotionally clingy, and wanted more than just to "date". myself included. granted i was only 19, but i also had a one track mind. i wasn't interested in playing the field, i didnt even know what that term meant. i had a girl in mind, period. depending on how you look at it, i think men tend to gauge their existance on sex (conquests) more than women. our society plays it up like heather said. therefore men tend to freak out the longer they go without it. women are more content when it comes to sex, but they also have an easier time getting it when they want it. ist there some movie coming out about a guy who goes two months with no booty. and the movie is presenting this as if its a challenge??? my god. as if men are that weak! like you dave, if i knew then, what i know now, id be getting action every other weekend in this town, probably score something itchy and go bald. my wife is preserving and polishing me. i suspect yours is too.

I have gone 4.5 years with no booty. If men want to be in a relationship, they're needy and weak. If they don't, they're callous assholes who are just using women. Don't you love that?

i would just like to point out that i did not state either of the two points of view that antigone lists, nor do i think them.

real men don't care.

neither do i state or support antigone's statements. i was only citing my wife's specific experience.

Real men love Jesus. (I saw that on a bumper sticker this morning.)

and they certainly don't eat quiche.

who the hell DOES eat quiche? oh wait, is that what you were noshing on earlier?

real men eat frittate. and "Yee-haw if you love Jesus!"

Real men club Jesus.

I would just like to state that I did not state my two statements, nor do I support them. For the record, neither I did not state the statement above.

for the record, my ass does not smell nearly as bad as antigone's nor do i support such a foul foul smell.

In conclusion, I would like to state that I have no fucking idea what my last statement was, but my ass does not stink, you fuckwit.

maybe semillama needs an opening line such as, "hi i'm an archeologist. want me to tell you what period that tampon is from"

what did one tampon say to the other? nothing, they were both stuck up bitches.