Hey, I realize that this is not going to be read at all, but I feel that I should state what I have faith that the truth is. I feel that we don't have the authority to say that we are right by our own logic, because our logic will fail us. Therefore, it doesn't matter if you believe that the Bible is the word of God or not, because if it is, then what you believe doesn't really matter whether it is true or not. So, that being said, I often wonder why this is the most visited place on this site. People who claim that they don't believe in the Bible and Jesus Christ are the most vivid of talkers on this site. Therefore, I submit to you that the Bible says that very few will make it to heaven, unless they believe on the name of Jesus Christ, and the death that he suffered for you. And, whether you believe it or not, you will stand at judgement some day, and fortunately, your blood will not be on my hands. But, this letter will ring out for eternity in your mind. But, before you judge me, as if you haven't already, let me tell you that if there is a Satan, then wouldn't he have you in the position that you are in right now, if he wanted you to spend forever in hell? If you trust your logic now, then you will die. You will have nothing. If there is a God, then if you don't believe in him, then why should he believe in you?

Because God would have love and compassion even for the non-believers, you dumb fuck.

Naw, this isn't the most visited place on the site! That's Satan's severed head!

But, seriously... Logic isn't the end all-be all, despite what some of it's practitioners may claim. It's a 100% probable that there are things in the universe that we cannot comprehend using our current mode of thought and all true followers of logic know that. However, if you're a true follower of god (foreign or domestic) then you must think that your belief encompases everything. If you doubt, you're not a true follower. (Unless you eventually see the error of your ways.) Brett sayeth, "Therefore, it doesn't matter if you believe that the Bible is the word of God or not, because if it is, then what you believe doesn't really matter whether it is true or not." Why do you say "if it is"? That must mean you're open to the possibility that it isn't. You must not be a true believer. Brett sayeth, "I submit to you that the Bible says that very few will make it to heaven..." Yeah. It's a shame that you won't be one of them. Only 144,000. How could you be so arrogant to think you're one of the chosen few? Seeing that you're such a doubter of the bible and all. Brett sayeth, "And, whether you believe it or not, you will stand at judgement some day, and fortunately, your blood will not be on my hands." Yes, and you will be judged too, and you will be found WANTING in the eyes of GOD because of your doubt. But, here's the kicker. Because you've just decided, of your own free will, that you're not your brother's keeper, you're far worse than any of us non-believers could ever be. You've left us out in the cold. You've forsaken us when you could have done everything in your power to bring us into the light. You've failed us and your GOD. And you say we'll rot in hell forever. God may love the righteous, but he despises the self righteous. I'll save a seat for you in the barbeque.

Naw, wait a sec, it looks like this is the most active board on the site. I love it!

I don't believe there is a Jared. what has he ever done for me to prove his ever-lasting love for me?

"God may love the righteous, but he despises the self righteous." I couldn't have put it better myself, Antigone. I knew someone like that from work -- my old supervisor in fact. Used to be a big time party girl but then "found jesus" and all of a sudden, she was better than the rest of us, better than those of us who were not yet saved. I used to enjoy the idea that when she got to heaven (IF she got to heaven and not that I believe in heaven anyway) God would kick her out on her self righteous ass for completely getting the whole concept wrong. An example: I was doing the MS Walkathon and asked her if she wanted to sponsor me. I had to SHOW her the pamphlet because she wanted to know what disease I was walking for. God forbid it would be the AIDS Walk. No no, she couldn't, wouldn't have any part of THAT! Those people deserve what they get, didn't I know that? She also believed in a strict interpretation of the bible, as in - the earth is only 6 thousand years old or whatever. I asked her how she accounted for dinosaur fossils. Were they hoaxes? Oh no, she replied. They mention dinosaurs in the bible! They do? Where? Oh yeah, that part in the Old Testament where Moses gets eaten by the T-Rex after he comes down from the Mount.... dumb.

please learn to spell 'existence' see first two messages at top of page

if poor spelling bothers you, you're not long for these boards or is that "boreds"?

Back to the question: when defining Heaven or Hell, make sure this definition is not limited to something experienced only in the afterlife. We as human beings can live right now in Heaven, or in Hell. These are not just destinations, they are journeys. Every single person has held conversations with himself, standing at the proverbial crossroads. Listen, really listen to what is being said inside of you. Very quietly, God is speaking to you. You usually can't hear him, "the world is too much with us." He is telling you what you should do. This is why prayer is so important. I admit I don't practice near as much as I should, and my state of belief is in definite flux. But I know one thing: when I take the time to listen, he speaks to me, making suggestions, affirming his love for me, showing me the path he wants me to take. You can believe this is just your consiousness, and probably many of you do. Prayer, or meditate. Consider your existance, and how you fit into the scheme of the universe. Is there really a power greater than ourselves? And what happens when you don't listen to that voice in your head, and do otherwise? You walk down the wrong path, and could be perpetuating your own personal Hell. Nobody alive today can answer that still small voice 100% of the time, but it will show you a better way to live. I believe there are several paths to God and Heaven, but ultimately there is only one destination. Find your own path. You can share in the descriptions of other people's journey, but only one person is walking in your shoes.

"God is dead." - Nietzsche "This thread is dead." - Antigone

Nietzsche was insane. Beware where you find your truths. And this thread will never die.

Better watch who you call insane, mister "I listen to the voices in my head for guidance." I think this is a case of the pot calling the kettle existentialist...

MY!!!!! So many people expressing their views regarding God & Hell ( beg pardon, Heaven...). So many cats living inside of the same sack for a while without killing each other. That must be Heaven; thanks God. Edgy Girl

hello?

hiya!

Good Bye!!! I'm in a bad mood.

"You say goodbye, I say hello" - The Beatles

hullo hulllo.

i dont know why you say goodbye i say hello

god is not dead .he now plays the slots in vegas.

how can you not believe in GOD? satan is not an atheist

More gremlins. I don't belive in god but I believe in gremlins.

Nor i,but for me God is every atom of the universe,you and i are the solidified remains of a solar flair thrown out from a star,as such i regard myself as being in tune with all matter and all energy,as that is what i consist of.God can not be a separate entity.

it's history all up in your shit for a minute. hello!

In tune with all matter and all energy, really? Do you go with A=440 or the baroque standard? So, you're god and I'm god, that means we're the same right?

synchronicity? And I think that at least "Cardinal Blindswine'" sounds fine.

Lapis,we are different aspects of the same substance.(stick that in your pipe and smoke it)

In Spanish, "lapiz" means "pencil"

And a "pencil"can be blunt at times.

"shudder"

Kebron, is this you?

I miss all those posters of yorn.

yorn isn't a real word.

Yore,(in the past)

aii!! I'M A GREMLIN!!!!!

So you ARE a Scorpio!

no, I'm a taurus, actually.

Thats excellent,im Aquarius,and an avid hater of (most)Scorpios.

Sagitarius

Also good, but tend to have a leviathan libido.

I am on the Aries/Taurus cusp, but the truth is I am so much more of an Aries it isn't even funny. I am a total fire sign. No comment on Spunky's libido. :p

Aries:tend to get fed up being used as consultants for other peoples problems.Born leaders and War Lords,but with good intentions.

i don't get fed up being used as a consultant for other people's problems. i'm on the pices cusp, though.

Why is this thread so jive? I'm a Gemini.

i am such a pisces it's silly

Pisces?ultra cute and sexy,loves partys,allthough male Pisces tend to be gay actors.

eri, what's Kebron's bday?

I am bored, so I took this test, and it said I was most Scorpio-like. But I am so not. They're all firey and shit....I don't have the energy. "Their [sic] is a side to Geminians [sic] which can become deeply involved emotionally, and another, hostile to sentimentality, which stands back from a romantic situation, laughing at it and the protagonists in it, including themselves while analyzing it intellectually." Now that's me.

Strange that Nate is on the Pisces cusp.

V.v., tell me about Geminis.

Gemini,the heart and soul of wild partys.

I cant say enough good things about Gemini,my own Father was one.

so, v.v, you are saying the half of all Pisces tend to be gay actors. if we assume an equal distribution of birthdates, then that would mean 1/24th of humanity are homosexual thespians.

Yes,but in some countrys more than others.

is it safe to assume an equal distribution of birthdates?

I dont think so,depends on what time of the year people have the most sex,any suggestions?

I'm a gemini. Wild parties? What? .

well, without the data at hand, it's hard to say, but i think that with 6 billion people on the planet, it's not TOO inaccurate. My brother is an Ophiucus. I'm so jealous.

Ophiucus:Anagram=Suc-u-i-hop

Sounds like something a Pisces thespian actor would say.

And its something of an obscuration,yet in its way,Machiavellian.

Aquarius, Capricorn cusp. I ususally read my horoscope the day after (when I actually get to read it)

nope, ophiucus is the dirty secret of astrology. the sign that they forgot to include. Check it out: http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/zodiac.html

Aquarius,Capricorn cusp,tall with a well deserved air of superiority,the most creative of all star signs,regards most people as intellectual dwarfs.Mostly cares for the human race but is capable of disemboweling foes...and frighteningly similar to my self.

oh semillama, always with your infernal "sense" and "logic". my sister has a zodiac tattoo. I'm so ashamed.

I just find it pretty amusing, is all. It's a fun parlour game but that's about it. The people around you in your life have a far more measurable and real affect then a bunch of arbitrary connect-the-dots in the sky.

it always seemed to me that, if there were going to be any significance to the positions of the planets and a person's character, the defining moment would be conception, not birth. maybe cutting the umbilical cord somehow releases cosmic energy shaped by the relative positions of the planets into the mind of the infant. it seems somewhat less wacked out that a planetary map gets imprinted onto the zygote and is then indelibly duplicated as the cells divide. i guess either way, the idea of the planets (and asteroids and moons depending on how much detail is desired) forces and energies resonating with our own little celestial snapshots in any measurable way requires the ever popular, but elusive to me, leap of faith. chicks seem to dig it and that's what matters the most.

I once saw a documentary on palm reading and astrology and similar things. They interviewed a former palm reader who really honestly believed the stuff he was getting from people's hands. Until one day (years before the interview) a sceptical friend of his proposed an experiment: tell the people exactly the opposite of what he saw in their hands, and see what they thought. He tried it, and as usual, they were dumbstruck by his accuracy. . In the same documentary, a guy handed a bunch of college students folded pieces of paper with their names on them. After they read them, he asked for a show of hands that thought they were "very accurate" and got about 3/4 of the room. All but a couple people thought it was at least "fairly accurate". They were all the same. . Compare your daily horoscope from two or three different places for the same day. They're often contradictory if they make any declarative statements at all. Otherwise they're just generic good advice. . . That said, I once poked through a huge book that had stuff for every day of the year and cross references describing the kinds of relationships people are likely to have based on the day they were born. Actually, I think the cross references were by week, not day. But anyway... I was all kinds of impressed. And they weren't all completely generic and vague. There were some that said things like "you will clash with this person." It had marriage suggestions for different weeks and things like that.

Everything you say, TBone, is quite valid and interesting. Just realize that it has absolutely no bearing on the validity of palm reading, astrology, or fortune telling. All of your points pertain to the way people consume and judge those arts, not the arts themselves. I'm not saying that palm reading, astrology, or fortune telling are valid, just that your observations (from the documentary) don't address their validity.

John Edwards You Douche

my interest with astrology, which is way less now (like approaching nil) than it was 15 years ago, is mostly based on the truly complex "science" underlying the system and how, mixing psychological, astronomical, and mythological disciplines can actually foster as viable a lifestyle as any other belief system, especially when you understand that the forces behind the system are predictable and constantly changing minute by minute, hour by hour. it's this dynamic approach that makes it more intriguing to me than a lifestyle ruled by static doctrine. it's truly more than just horoscopes and stereotypes. it's also pure, fucking insanity. i'm an aries.

True, VV. But if we can't tell the difference between real astrology and complete hogwash, then what purpose does it serve?

It shows Scorpios are to be avoided.

Aries:hard working,honest,and allways looking for the next lay.

i'm neither hard working nor honest.

The way I've seen it, from reading those horrible astrology books, you really need to go so much deeper than just the standard "sun" sign for it to be very accurate. Astrology goes into the positions of all the planets when you're born, plus three more calculations (ascendant, midheaven and uh....... ) to be truly accurate, you must also figure out the exact location. In this oversimplified manner, astrology is a parlor game. Another thing to point out is that the accuracy of the "prediction" is measured by the person it is about, when most people are biased about seeing themselves. Generally all negativities are avoided because nobody wants bad news.

Lapis,dont care what you say,in astrology,your closer to me than my sister.Her sign is Cancer,cool,but never as cool as Aquarius (capricorn cusp)

"Aries:tend to get fed up being used as consultants for other peoples problems.Born leaders and War Lords,but with good intentions." "Aries:hard working,honest,and allways looking for the next lay." Well, I would say that is all true, except for the whole looking for the next lay thing. I already have more than I can handle. It's what I get for marrying a Saggitarius :p And to answer your question honey, Kebron's birthday is Dec. 12th. Same year as you. So you are both Saggitarius.

Kebron?a sex machine?how does he get the time to post?but he is absent a lot of the time!

So Sag's are sex machines? Boy does that explain a LOT.

sun in pisces moon in virgo leo ascendant

I'm a sagittarius, too. Me and Spunky (?)!

Sun in Aquarius, Moon in Aquarius, Cancer ascendant. I typed some stuff into web site once and they compiled my chart, it's almost completely air and water with an Aries midheaven (I think).

Heather,with your three signs the ideal job for you is Shakespearian Actress.Romeo and Juliet perhaps.

Lapis,with such a strong Aquarian influence and the ability to make your ideas work (Cancer ascendant)you do well in the arts or media.

"I'm a sagittarius, too. Me and Spunky (?)!" And Kebron

AWESOME

Actually, Kebron's an Ophiucus.

Well he would be,being Kebron.

Sex machine huh well I wish women would tell me that. What is Ophiucus? K