Rules of Attraction


sorabji.com: Last movie you saw: Rules of Attraction
THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016).

By Platypus on Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 01:35 am:

    And it fucking rocked. I urge all of you to go out and see it immediatly. I'm going to go see it again, I think, because I liked it so much. Maybe not the best movie of all time, but it's in my top ten without a doubt.

    So yeah. Go see it.


By dave. on Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 01:38 am:

    do you actually like movie theatres?


    'cause i don't.



    not at all.


By Platypus on Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 01:16 pm:

    there was no one else there, which meant we had the run of the the theatre.

    and this particular theatre has "love seats" where all the armrests flip up, and the seats rock back.

    so, under certain circumstances, yes, i like movie theatres.


By dave. on Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 03:26 pm:

    that sounds like a good theatre.


By Nate on Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 05:38 pm:

    theater.
    center.
    color.
    tire.
    jail.


By eri on Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 05:51 pm:

    I remember wanting to see that movie, but now I can't remember what it was about or who was in it.


By dave. on Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 06:06 pm:

    fukk yew
    phucqueue
    faw q


By Spider on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 08:39 am:

    So is it true that Patrick Bateman's brother calls him up and you see him with a severed head in his hand?


By sarah on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 11:19 pm:


    i saw a sneak preview of Secretary with James Spader and Maggie Gyllenhaal.


    now my new all-time favorite movie. kicked Wild At Heart into second place by a long shot.


    we saw a preview for Rules of Attraction before the show. it looked really wild.



By kazoo on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 11:22 pm:

    Do you like James Spader? My best-friend has this strange obsession with James Spader. So does her a friend of hers. For Christmas last year she made him a set of James Spader/Valdimir Putin pillow cases.

    True story.


By Spider on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 08:33 am:

    Sarah, have you read the short story (viz., "Secretary" by Mary Gaitskill)? I have -- it was kind of icky, but I understand the movie has made more of a relationship between the two main characters, and the woman enjoys what goes on. Is this correct?

    (If you haven't read the story, in it, the woman stays at home from work after the second incident and is too disgusted and ashamed to call her boss and tell him she's quit. The End.)



By Platypus on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 10:09 am:

    I've read the short story, and want to see the film. It's actually playing here now, so I suppose I could go see it, but I'm too busy. I hate that.


By sarah on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 08:29 pm:


    i have not read the short story, but from the sounds of it, the film is MUCH better.

    yes, she enjoys it. not just enjoys it, she needs it. it keeps her sane, literally.


    the reason this is my new favorite movie is because it is slow and broad and deep. it does not rush you through the characters. it takes its time developing very subtle behavioral nuances of the relationship, and therefore does not necessarily require suspension of disbelief. you can get engrossed completely in the story. both Spader and Gyllenhaal play their parts brilliantly.

    also, it's funny, awfully sexy, sometimes shocking, and quirky as hell - but not quirky in the "Royal Tanenbaums/Rushmore" kind of way. much better than that... not as obvious or forced.

    go see it! esp if you like or at least don't mind explicit sexuality.




By Spider on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 08:26 am:

    That sounds interesting. Hmmm...it's playing at the theatre down the street from my office...maybe I'll catch it this week.


By Spider on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 08:44 am:

    I finally saw "Secretary" last night! I loved it.

    I completely agree with your points above, Sarah.

    I thought Spader and Gyllenhall were perfect -- I especially liked how self-controlled and soft-spoken he was. I also liked the decision to make him full of his own neuroses.

    I really liked the way that everything outside the office was colored in these garish pinks and blues, while the office and Mr. Grey's home were full of browns and natural colors. Those were the places where you could breathe and be free.

    I honestly thought the movie was going to end after he fired her. (The short story it's based on ends after she quits.) I was getting really disappointed, but then....yay! I liked the way the "hunger strike" (featured on the TV news) was kind of over the top, and I thought the ending was great.

    And the movie wasn't cheesy or sleazy or lame -- it was funny and sad and sexy and true.

    I think everyone here should see it.


By Rowlf on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 10:27 am:

    Secretary was great, but you probably only really need to see it once...

    Rules of Attraction is awesome. I bought it the other day... my only real beef is that its 'signature scene' (the split screen conversation) isnt possible.. when they do the pull apart, it is shown it would have been physically impossible for Shannyn Sossamon to grab Van Der Beeks glasses... theres suspension of disbelief, and then theres that. come on.

    Did anyone listen to the DVD commentary with Carrot Top? Oh god he's so lame, he made OJ jokes. OJ SIMPSON JOKES. and Lewinsky jokes... yeh, great practical joke guys. Carrot Top. Whoo


By Spider on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 10:37 am:

    I'll see Secretary again with the (director and writer?) commentary -- I want to know if they chose the sets' color schemes on purpose. Well, I know they did, but I want to hear their reasoning.


By Rowlf on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 10:48 am:

    most commentaries never seem to tell you want you want to know


By Spider on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 10:55 am:

    The Evil Dead commentaries sure do. :)


By sarah on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 11:41 pm:


    i thought secretary was just as good the second time i saw it a few weeks ago. i'm glad you got as much out of it as i did, spider.

    my favorite scene in the movie is when spader sits her down and asks her, "what's with the sewing kit, lee?"


    here is some copy from an interview with Gyllehaal - i think she does a great job of nailing down why it is such a great movie:

    Q: Are there some comedic aspects to it?

    MG: Oh yes, absolutely. It's definitely funny. It's a romantic comedy but it's a romantic comedy about real people who are both tender, loving and happy, and also broken and dark and complicated - like everyone is. It's definitely funny.

    Q: Do you feel it glorifies S&M?

    MG: I think it's less about S&M than everyone seems to think it is before they see it. I think that S&M in the movie is in a lot of ways a metaphor for the complications in life, for the fact that there is both light and dark in every relationship and in every person. And that pain helps to define what pleasure is. Without it, there would be no concept of pleasure. I think it glorifies S&M only in the sense that whatever it is that you need to wake yourself up, to be present and be aware, do it. Be aware why you are doing it, but do it.




By Spider on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 00:13 pm:

    I like that a lot.


    I enjoyed that scene, as well, Sarah. I felt so embarrassed and afraid for her when he caught her with her instruments out on her desk...I had to pause the film and take a deep breath, her shame was so strong to me. But I loved that she was so painfully exposed in front of him, and he was so gentle and compassionate with her. It just was so right and true that the only way she could stop hurting herself was by obeying his direction to stop.

    I also liked the scene in which Lee's father is hospitalized, and she drives to Mr. Grey's house but can't make herself ask him for what she wanted. I don't know...I felt that was also very real and true.


    I think this is one of the most honest movies I've ever seen. (Remember how much Cyst loved "Happiness"? That's how I feel about this.) We get to see these two people complete open and raw and exposed in front of us and to each other, and their relationship is honest and healthy....I don't know, it's like we get to see the real people who aren't hiding anything, whereas everyone else is a mystery.


    Goddamn, I love this movie.


By sarah on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 00:51 pm:


    exactly. he resolved for her in a few minutes what years of therapy in a mental institution could not.


    "Lee, we can't keep doing this 24 hours a day."

    "Why not!"

    the way she delivered that response was absoutely perfect. brilliant.


    or after Lee and Peter have sex, he asks her, "I didn't hurt you, did I?"

    "No..." she replies, with the subtlest hint of disappointment. which makes you want to laugh, it's terribly funny.


    i think what's most seductive about the movie is that it matters not at all that the characters know very little about each other factually. the facts, the stories, the histories are nearly irrelevant to the relationship. they love and adore each other not in spite of but because of each other's weaknesses. and their weaknesses compliment each other and essentially they help each other become stronger and more complete.


    goddamn i love this movie too.



By Rowlf on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 01:25 pm:

    the Gyllenhaal family rules


By Platypus on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 02:31 pm:

    Yeah, Secretary was great.

    And I disagree that you should only watch it once--I've gotten a lot out of it every time I watch it. Because it's great. For all the reasons discussed above. I also liked that S&M is presented with a sense of normality--although Spader seems conflicted about it sometimes, I think the movie may have helped a lot of people overcome hangups about S&M. Maybe that's just my mind, though. Anyway. Yeah.


By Spider on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 02:47 pm:

    I really liked the fact that he was conflicted. That kept him from being an asshole. That let you see that it's not that he's just a jerk who likes to order women around, but that this is something that's inherent to his personality that he can't change or control....there's no malice or sexism involved.

    Because he's a good person (also evident in the fact that he didn't take exploit Lee's weakness when she revealed her cutting to him), it bothers him that he has this compulsion -- and that's why Lee is good for him. She allows him to accept and express that part of himself in a mutually beneficial and loving relationship. And he, of course, is good for her -- remember when he asks her why she cuts herself and then provides the answer for her? The look on her face and the way she said "Yes, that's it!" (or whatever the line was)....you can see they understand each other on the most fundamental level.



    The one part of the movie I didn't get was how Mr. Grey knew Peter's cell number, when he called Peter to tell him Lee was at the office.


By sarah on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 04:22 pm:


    caller ID.




By Spider on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 09:37 am:

    I watched it again last night with the commentary. Mr. Grey had Peter's phone number on a piece of paper. ?

    And the writer and director did mention the color schemes! They also said that at first they wanted Lee to go into the office on the day of her interview wearing a red raincoat, to make her look like Little Red Riding Hood entering the wolf's lair, but they decided to make it purple -- purple being the color of bruises and also a color that a lot of little girls choose as their favorite.

    I liked the movie even better the second time. I noticed that James Spader never smiles genuinely until the end -- before that, his smiles always have a little bit of hurt in them, like he's wincing. I love the part, too, when he fires her and sits in the chair away from his desk, and she runs her fingers through his hair -- his eyes close, and at first it seems that he's moving into her caress, but then he brings his knees up and you see that he's writhing away from her. That was awesome.

    God, he and she were excellent.


By wisper on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 07:00 pm:

    i love the part where she's alone her bathroom, aiming in the mirror to spank herself with her hairbrush, and dissapointed afterwards.
    it's so sweet and sad.
    perfect love story.


By dave. on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 09:26 pm:

    sounds exactly like the kind of chick flick to avoid.


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