I watched that on Fox t.v.last night and I,m positive that Alannis is Joe Cockers love child,they have the same moves.She needs to watch Paula Cole.Elvis was his sweet self,sang my favorite song,I still want to shag him.Woodstock was a one time deal,the dream is over,now it,s just about $$$.Where is the Checkered Demon now?

I read in the paper today that a web site has been posted with pictures of the people looting and burning stuff at Woodstock '99. They said the purpose of the site is to have people identify the people in the photos. I can't remember the net address. Has anybody been to it?

http://www.troopers.state.ny.us/WStock/WStockINDEX.html

AP is suing them for copyright infringement. They used AP photos without permission. Anyway, any comments on the riots? People are saying it's like Altamont. Bullshit. Pepsi already owns the rights to the fucking thing. Shit, the Stones made a fucking fortune off of that "free concert", and it was commercialized, but not like this. Woodstock 99 was never, to any but the most clueless stoned suburban teenybopper, anything but another tired "retro" marketing ploy.

RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and woodstock '69 was a poorly planned marketing ploy that got completely out of control and fucked up the promoter's profit margin. i wonder how many women were raped back then.

Swine, nobody but Pepsico was romanticizing Woodstock '69 on this thread. However, I will respond anyway. My point was that Altamont, in a lot of ways, and to a lot of people, was the end of something that a lot of people believed in....not something perfect, but something that meant something to a lot of people. But nobody believed that Woodstock '99 would ever change anything but Pepsico's profit margin. It was merely a remark on the fact that there is no idealism in today's youth for this event to destroy.

yeah, i understand your point. i was just wagging my tongue to express my skepticism in regard to the whole 60's love, peace, and happiness fad.

I would say that the whole 60's trip was not in reality what it is in "retro"-spect, but I would also say that it had its good sides. There was a lot of political activism that went on, a hell of a lot more than does now, and sure, a lot of the kids were just there because it was a social event, but they were there. And it was the *only* time an entire generation of youth took an interest in their government, and tried to make a change. Which is more than can be said of the new generation, most of whom don't even bother to vote (and no, there isn't much of a choice, but, maybe if people voted, there would be one). Damnit, a flawed ideal is better than the cult of apathy... the entire message that kids today is "the world is a miserable place, and I'm not going to make a difference, so I'll just be a mindless consumer, but it'll be rebellious, since it's out of cynicism." End result: a whole generation of fucking sheep...internally cynical sheep, but cynicism is nothing but a pose if it has absolutely no impact on your actions.

You know when people say a vote for a third party is like throwing it away? Doesn't it make more sense that any vote not for a thrid party is the greater waste? If you are going to vote, why not vote for whoever the hell else may be the alternative to whatever pair of repblicrats are runnign for the position? I have had a great deal of fun voting for the Natural Law party. If we had the Screaming Lunatic party here, I 'd vote for them too.

when you see cities burning to the ground on tv, the army/police forces drawing weapons on the citizens they are supposed to protect, and the government randomly picking people around you and sending them over to vietnam to kill and die for dubious reasons, you don't really have any other option but to take an interest. it's kinda bullshit to try and compare the political awareness of a generation that came of age in a time when the country was literally on the verge of self-destruction with the politcal awareness of today's generation. <<"the world is a miserable place, and I'm not going to make a difference, so I'll just be a mindless consumer, but it'll be rebellious, since it's out of cynicism.">> is that what a whole generation is saying? "mindless sheep?" so you're saying they're just like their parents?

Sem: I once offered a contribution to a British/American dictionary. One of the sets of equivalent terms: Screaming Lord Sutch -------- H. Ross Perot And it's the "Monster Raving Loony Party" I found their page: http://www.surfbaud.co.uk/loony/ Swine: I would say that yes, the draft was a catalyst for the peace movement, but that doesn't make the movement less useful. U.S. foreign policy is still a major issue. We do all sorts of covert ops all over South and Central America, crushing democracy wherever we find it. And domestic policy, what the fuck do you think the "War on Drugs" is? We have had a U.S. citizen killed by U.S. troops on U.S. soil for the first time in decades. And cops are shooting people in the streets. I've had a gun pointed at my head by a cop who had already searched me and knew I was unarmed (and had nothing on me but paraphernalia), and was told that he'd shoot me in the face just for the hell of it. How about you? And what about the rider they stuck on the antiterrorist bill that makes a joke out of the fourth amendment? And murder rates. And the fact that CIA drug trafficking is entirely an open secret. I would say we have plenty to be angry about these days. Maybe people in the 60's weren't all true individualists, but they stood up and resisted and made a difference. Maybe people today all believe in individualism and have all the right principles, but they're not doing squat to change things, even though they know more about what our government is doing that's evil, they just don't care. I would say that actions speak louder than some nebulous concept of purity of ideal.

speaking of music, if I may sway off track, I found it bizarre, I was bored and decided to do a serach for my now defunct band's name and see what came up.....and found this review of our music which we haven't played in ATlanta for over 2 years and LA for over a year...despite the negative review I found it amusing... go here if you give a rats ass http://www.degeneratepress.com/earplugs/earplugs.html we are accustat, at the top of the list HA!

a name: Jesse "the Gov" Ventura elected another: Jello Biafra unelected yet another: None Of The Above barred from running

are you trying to say you have no idea what i'm talking about or are you just being argumentative?

i just realized i came outta of left field with my post above, sorry, I thought the discussion of woodstock 69 vs 99 was still happening, i am awaiting my punishment

What do you mean by that? What exactly is your thesis?

"Act like a dumbshit, and they'll treat you like an equal."

c'mon baby. let's do it one mo' time. <<when you see cities burning to the ground on tv, the army/police forces drawing weapons on the citizens they are supposed to protect, and the government randomly picking people around you and sending them over to vietnam to kill and die for dubious reasons, you don't really have any other option but to take an interest.>> none of the fucked up things that are wrong with this country that you've mentioned will ever mobilize people on a national level the way that a direct, visible, personal threat will. especially not in an economically prosperous climate. when you keep calling this generation a bunch of apathetic mindless sheep, you sound like you're trying to say that the widespread activism in the 60's had less to do with the socio-politcal climate and more to do with people who were out to "change the world." i personally think they were reacting to what was going on around them and trying to save their own collective asses. this is a good thing. and i wouldn't ever try to suggest that activism in the 60's was useless. what i was originally suggesting was that a lot of that "peace, love, and happiness" mentality was mostly bullshit escapism and essentially apathetic in itself. i don't see the point in trying to "expand your mind" with psychotropics while the police are beating your people in the streets. as far as i'm concerned the two best things that came out of the 60's were the civil rights/black power movements. but of course i am biased. and hypocritical, since i've done my fair share of tuning in, turning on, and dropping out. or whatever the hell that slogan was. (i thought "eat glass" was in there somewhere...) anyway, when i think of the 60's, i remember images i've seen of police beating black people down in the streets, cities on fire, chicago '68, vietnam... i've heard far too many white kids vicariously reminiscing of free love, free drugs, and great music. not that there's anything wrong with any of that, but they look at me funny when i look at them funny after they say shit like, "man! wouldn't it have been so much FUN to have been there!" one of those comments (made by a friend of a friend) was what prompted my original post. that and a conversation about how woodstock '99 has soiled the purity of woodstock '69, but i don't even want to get into that. anyway, i bet if you take the socio-political climate of the '60's and apply it to the 90's, you'll get similar results. i guess that's my "thesis." i'm sick of typing. .

castlemorton is what the sixties would have looked like if it wan't being run by the parents of Yuppies.

i think today we have more distractions, the gov't/media machine does a fine job of distracting us when it needs to. So much information is controlled, I am convicned we only know what they want us to know, or at least to a certain extent. However,Vietnam, riots, civil unrest, these were things happening right here, our brothers, sons and fathers were being shipped out right before our eyes. When we relate to whats happening in Asia, Eastern Europe,Africa....not only is hard to relate or grasp, but we have to rely on what we see in the media, we have to have faith in our media. Remember Tonkin Bay? The gov't/media machine had us going and subsequently launched us into Vietnam. Well since I was not a sparkle in my pop's eye at that time I have to rely on stories and history books. I am very skeptical with what the media says. So in short I kinda have to agree with Swine. Alo rememeber alittle socio-eco-political factoid. It's well known when econoimic times are good , people are less likely to be inclined to take on poilical and soicla issues. We, as a whole, just aren't interested. Inthe 60's the prosperity of WW2 had run out of steam, the "peachy" 50's were over. Conisdering I work for a political magazine, we have ahd to alter our contetn to keep people interested. Celebrity covers will outsell a political related cover these days.

where's my damn speak and spell

Oklaholma?

Anyway, Woodstock 99 proves that you can't rip off the 60s/70s and make them your own. Today's teenagers and twenty-somethings include a large number of vicious brain-dead punks without a clue as to what life is like in the real world, then or now. It's no surprise these spoiled little fucks torched the place on their last day in town. But hey- we have the society we're apparently willing to tolerate. Media that spins out bullshit, politicians that lie, Presidents that rape, celebrities that get away with murder, juries that LET celebrities get away with murder just to 'send a message to The Man', psycho-babble excuses for any and all aberrant behavior- etc.etc.etc. It's the end of the 20th Century- please don't pretend to be surprised by anything.

it's a nihilist thing you wouldn't get it man!

"none of the fucked up things that are wrong with this country that you've mentioned will ever mobilize people on a national level the way that a direct, visible, personal threat will." "especially not in an economically prosperous climate." Okay, how about the fact that entire companies out here are replacing every job but the executives with temps? The permanent job is already a thing of the past in Northern California. I have no benefits. I can be terminated at any time for my politics (and it's already happened twice). If I visibly organize, I will be blacklisted. How's that for a "personal threat"? As for your second point, I think that the widespread activism of the sixties had everything to do with people who were out to "change the world" *because* of the socio-political climate. As for vicarious reminiscences, yeah, my parents were there... Here's what I heard about: My father taught me about how you really shouldn't wear a helmet to a protest where you expect violence from the cops because then they'll target you more heavily. He said he had a padded jacket and he used to stuff newspapers into it to minimize the broken bones. He told me about getting arrested. He taught me passive resistance. My mother found out about her leftist roots at about the same time as the beatings at the Democratic Convention. She described the difficulty she went through, trying to find the courage to remain active after hearing that her father didn't even have the last name she thought he had. She told me about growing up in hiding and then learning why her childhood seemed so strange. My father taught me about being a radical. My mother taught me effective political action: "Always dress straight if you're doing anything political". (She was, understandably, more cautious) No stories about drugs. My father taught me not to take them. He said it would compromise my value to the revolution. BTW: neither of my folks were much into sixties rock. The closest I heard from them was Holly Near. (Not that the sex and the drugs were necessarily entirely a bad thing. I would say that questioning every aspect of the morality of one's society is always an admirable endeavor.) "anyway, i bet if you take the socio-political climate of the '60's and apply it to the 90's, you'll get similar results." I bet not. Their propaganda machine is way too effective these days. Shit, half the kids today don't remember last week's news. As sorabjites tend to have a slightly longer attention span, I think you will not object to a slightly more difficult question.. Show of hands: How many of you know what the Iran-Contra scandal was about? Okay, without looking it up? Anyway, I pretty much agree on you about the rest of it.

I was sad when I heard about the mayhem at Woodstock 99. Its too bad. But its very real. Some people wanted to re-live the 60s, or re-live one particlaur vibe of the 60s. That didn't happen. I guess its like they say about acid: it will magnify whatever space you are in so you better be in touch with your inner self or it'll jump out and scaore you. I guess the late 90s sort of jumped out and scared us. I don't think its the end of the world though, like some people seem to. Yeah it was bad, but it wasn't everybody and I can even accept the energy behind some of the vandalism. Let's just say its a kind of a reality check. It means we've got some stuff to work on now. Let's get on with it. Peace and love!

.....money and control..........money and control..........money and control..........money and control..........money and control..........money and control..........money and control..........money and control..........money and control..... hand high and proud

Show of hands: How many of you know what the Iran-Contra scandal was about? To Lucy, Sure- I remember what Iran-Contra was about. I remember where I was and what I was doing the night Nixon quit. I watched the Watergate hearings on a tv in the library at my junior high school. I remember the look on my dad's face when Neil Armstrong walked on the moon on live tv. I remember the tortuous route we had to drive through Washington D.C. to pick my mother up from work in the wake of the riots following the Martin Luther King assassination. I guess what I'm saying here is only that I'm familiar with events of that era not because I read about them after the fact, but because I was growing up when all that was happening. I guess it's why I shake my head and realize I'm getting old. I mean, there's people posting here that weren't even alive when Nixon was president or the Viet Nam war was on, yet would feel confident about discussing these topics passionately. My fear is that some of these people are graduates of the Oliver Stone Center for Revisionist History. There's too much of that going on these days. I think it's wrong to judge the people and events of the past by today's standards and perceptions. An example is a school district in New Orleans that removed the names of certain Founding Fathers from public schools, because they owned slaves 200 years ago. It makes me shudder... because the former Soviet Union did the same thing. When a Party official fell from favor or was purged, it was common for all traces and references to him to disappear from documents and books and even archival photographs- as though the person never existed. Does the greater New Orleans school district now proclaim that George Washington never existed, never created the first standing army in the United States, never defeated the British army in the field, never became our first president? It disgusts me that people would presume to pass judgement on history and empower themselves to have some sort of final say. History isn't over yet. I would like to know what future generations of scholars will have to say about America at the end of the 20th century. What will they say about a political process driven by money and media spin? A culture that worships celebrities? A society that absolves itself of personal responsibility and calls every personal failing 'a disease'? A legal system that jails shoplifters but lets celebrity killers go free? An electorate so bored and misinformed and unimaginative that they twice elected someone like Bill Clinton to be president? There are no more great causes or great men. I take it back- history IS over. America has peaked.

In '69 some guy was knifed to death during one of the shows. I'm real pissed about what was done to woodstock '99. I had the time of my life there. The stupid fuckin' media has to destoy everything in order to get 'ratings' - thats bullshit!! Woodstock was three days long and the so called riots lasted about 5 hrs. In my mind the only things that sucked at woodstock are: the heat and Sherell Crow

i hear ya, sdl. i had the best time too! and the fires were even cool at first... you know, it was not too hot out, everyone dancing around these cool little bonfires... it was awesome... but some assholes had to wreck it.