Long story short/so as not to bore you w/the details... I got an email today from my homegirl in NY re: the fact that she found a joint in her daughter's purse (that wd be my oldest god-daughter/she'll be 15 later this month). My girl described how she went off on said god-daughter abt the evils of drugs & how "abusing yr body w/drugs is a sin because as a Christian/yr body belongs to God & shd not be defiled"/blah, blah, blah. This email was actually in response to an email from me/asking for suggestions as to what the girl's wd like for Xmas & the eldest's birthday/which is right before Xmas. She advised me that Miss Thang wd not be allowed to receive any Xmas or birthday gifts this year/as part of her punishment for using drugs. In her defense, "Carol" admitted freely that she had been given the joint by another girl/had only taken 1 hit off it & had put it out for fear that someone wd catch them. The Incident took place outside the local Youth Center, which my homegirl’s Mom (Carol’s grandmother) happens to be the Director of. My problem w/all this is that my girl & I both sued to get high -- pot, blow & rock were our drugs of choice. (This was appx. 6 yrs. ago.)We didn't indulge together often -- usually on birthday's & holidays. And there were times when each of us got high w/other people. And we had a LOT of FUN doing it. We were both Christians back then/same as now. We both believe in God & had accepted Christ. So being "saved" had nothing to do w/it -- she could have made the same argument abt "abusing the body God gave you" back then. Granted/neither of us every smoked a joint until we were 16 or 17 -- Carol is only 15. And neither of us tried coke until we were into our 20's. (I'm 39 now -- my homegirl is 33). And neither of us ever got into any trouble w/the cops over drugs. I feel that it is incredibly hypocritical for her to come down on her daughter like a sledgehammer about smoking reefer/when she herself used to smoke pot. (Actually/we both preferred coke when it was available.) I know it wd be irresponsible for any parent to condone their child's drug use. But when some of the best times I've had in my life came out of just hanging out & getting high w/really cool people who cd make you laugh til’ you peed yr pants/I don't think I have a right to play the Nancy Reagan role. Nor does my homegirl/becuz she was there some of those times & had just as much fun as I did. What I'm asking is/if you have kids & you still get high or used to get high/what have you told them/are you planning to tell them/abt using drugs? And is it wrong for someone like me/who is not a parent/to feel that it's proper to espouse the "all things in moderation/when you're responsible enough to handle them" position? Or wd I be sending a terribly wrong message American youth?Are people like me responsible for the scourge of drugs that have destryoed so many young people’s lives? (Becuz I really don’t need that kind of guilt trip. But I can’t help feeling how I feel abt this…)

Hmmm...I grew up in an area filled with hippies, so I never really got a negative message about drugs--the allure wasn't there because they weren't forbidden. I never went in for the pot movment--I wasn't into the idea. It's not fair of the mother to scold the daughter for what she did--I would agree that the daughter simply needs to learn moderation...maybe I'm part of the faction destroying the nation's youth though too...

Does your friend still get high, RC?

OF COURSE SHE DOESN'T GET HIGH NOW! She doesn't even drink anymore -- except for the occasional Girl's Nite Out at a restaurant after work. (Or when I'm staying w/them & making a pitcher of 'Ritas in the evening.) Her last get-high experiences were when her marriage was dead-but-not-over in the legal sense & she was dating a coke dealer on the sly/more than 4 years ago. He treated her to dinners & quasi-nice lingerie (Victoria's Secret seems posh when yr husband usually buys you Frederick's of Hollywood). He threw some cash her way when she was short/let her get high for free when she wanted to/& generally dissed her husband in her presence for not providing for her as a man shd. It didn't last long/& her 11-yr marriage was over in spirit long before she met this other guy. And I suspect a lot of this hard-line approach towards Carol is becuz of his influence. Which is not to say it's a bad thing/but I dunno... But he was her 2nd affair -- not her 1st. And the man she is married to now/whom she met in church/is a great guy who treats her daughters as well as he treats his own son from his prior marriage. But he is also someone she was sleeping & living w/for 3 yrs. before they said "I Do". For a long time/he couldn't answer the phone at their apt./& my god-daughters had strict orders not to let "anyone from church" into the house when their mother wasn't home/for fear they wd look around & figure out that she was shacked up w/her man. I really didn't like the fact that she was shacking up w/her future husband/becuz she is a Christian & she knows God ain't abt that mess. But I didn't criticize her for it/ becuz she is a grown woman & she was a faithful wife for many years to a man who didn't deserve her. Which is usually the case when you get married before you graduate from h.s. (& no -- she wasn't preganat when they got married). But I don't have children/so I don't know what a parental perspective shd be on this... My opinion is that it's wrong to lie to yr kids & pretend you were a saint. And it's fruitless to take the "Do as I say/not as I did" tack unless you are willing to sit down & confess to all the shit YOU did when you were young. I don't regard casual drug use (even on a quasi- regular basis) as something that's going to ruin yr life. Becuz it didn't ruin mine. Or the lives of most of the people I got high with. We all graduated from college -- if anything/I'M the slacker for not being rich by now/after getting an ivy-league degree. But to me/drugs are no different than what cocktails were & are to my parents' generation. You indulge a bit in order to understand what the appeal is. "Relaxing on the axis of the wheel of life"/as Billy Strayhorn so eloquently put it. To this day/my favorite Family Photos aren't my parents' wedding pictures/or snapshots from family vacations/or photos taken during their world travels since my brother & I were Grown & Gone. The pics I love most are the ones taken when they were dating/out at some niteclub in Harlem w/drinks & friends all around the table & an ashtray full of butts & smoke drifting between the notes of Miles Davis. (On the rare occasions when my father cd afford to take my her out for a big nite on the town back in those days.) She looked like Lena Horne in a Loewman's knock-off/& my Dad cd've put Nat King Cole to shame in his shark skin suit! I ADORE the fact that they had the chance to taste a little of the golden era of NY jazz clubs before they decided to settle down & create a family. Just as I wdn't buy well-drinks or MD 2020 even when I was young/I wdn't advise a teenager to get involved w/any type of IV drugs/animal tranks/ or the chemical shit people make in their basements. And frankly/I believe it's wiser & safe to indulge in marijauna & coke while you're YOUNG/when the consequences aren't so great. I never got popped buying or using/but if I had/it wd've happened when I was in my 20's & had no home to lose/or no job I cdn't replace w/a little finagling & a good lawyer. (And I've slept w/a few good lawyers in my day -- just for that reason.) But IMO/getting high is something most smart people outgrow by the time they hit 30. Becuz unless you continue hanging out w/folks who deal or at least dabble in drugs on a regular basis/finding a convenient & safe source to cop from becomes increasingly difficult. And going out to buy on the street is insane when you risk losing yr job & consequently yr home &/or yr family for a few hours of getting high. But is it wrong to tell a teenager all that? Is it a half-assed way of telling them it's okay to get high? Basically/I think it wd be okay for Carol to blow a dube now & then - IF she were a straight-A student & community darling/as both her mother & I were at her age. But really/what right do I have to impose my personal achievements on her? When I was a kid/I didn't have to deal w/my father becoming a crackhead/going away to rehab for 10 mos. while his family struggled to survive/& getting clean but never learning how to grow in his marriage once his wife learned the hard way that she cd survive w/out him... I didn't have to live thru my parents divorcing & my Mom getting remarried 3 yrs. later/while my father proceedes to date various-&-trifiling skanky White chiks (no offense to anyone present/but these are Class-A chickenheads who can't manage to pull a decent White man/so they settle for any half-assed Brother they can find). How can I tell Carol she has to "earn" the right to smoke reefer by being a model student/when she's had so shit to deal with? And even if she hadn't been thru so much/am I obligated as a wiser & mature adult to tell her that "Drugs are BAD -- period"??? Carol has zero interest in school -- when I've talked to her abt it/her response is that she doesn't care abt her education becuz she's going to become a rapper &/or a fashion designer/so she doesn't need good grades. And she can toss off the names of 8 or 9 successful ex-cons & single mothers w/no college degree (or girls like Brandi w/no kids & no criminal record) who are making mad $$ now. And I come back at her w/the names of 3 or 4 others who DID finish h.s. & college before they ever broke big in the music or fashion industries. But we both know that what they learned in college had precious little to do w/the level of success they've achieved today. And most of them will admit to smoking/or having smoked/more than a few blunts in their time. So what the hell am I supposed to say or do now? I wanted to give Carol a pr. of diamond studs for her birthday. (I found a set of VS quality half carat - total wt. - studs for $600/which is an excellent price. And if she's ever needs bail money/she can sell them for a decent price.) It may sound extravagant/but I want her to have them becuz I was 15 when I got my 1st diamonds... Becuz I want her to understand that she doesn't have to turn to a man to get nice things. And that her academic performance isn't the only thing that makes her valuable to the folks who love her. (But her GPA is a dismal 76 at this point). I think that when you love a Black girl/it shd be for what she means to YOU -- not what she represents to the rest of the world. Becuz for so much of her live/the world will tell her she is Less Than/Other/Not Good Enuf. Black boys need someone to be constantly vigilant abt making sure they measure up & can T.C.B./becuz so many of our sons have mothers who sit back & watch them grow up/rather than raising them into men. But for Black girls/the oppostie is usually true -- they are saddled w/shit no child shd have to deal w/& expected to share their mother's back-breaking burdens/becuz the load is too heavy for any one to carry alone. But I wd never do anything to jeopardize my w/friendship w/her mother. So what the fuck shd I DO?

As a parent who smoked pot,I guess I was a hypocrite,never did it in front of them,encouraged them in the D.A.R.E program,etc.Never realized they knew anything about it till when my son started stealing it,when he was about 15.I had to finally get a safe.I say by 15 your Goddaughter is going to do what she,s going to do.She sounds like a good kid,I don,t feel that it,s right to punish her by withholding her getting Christmas and Birthday presents,it,s only going to cause resentment.I,d just tell your friend that you don,t feel right about that.I also had two girls who were 15,and I,d think twice about laying out that kind of $$$ on those earrings,is she going to take care of them?

Gee you don't have kids

Now Patrick, the thread is called I need ANSWERS from parents, and unless I'm retarded (which is quite possible) Gee asked a question!

oh right..good point i don't have any kids

If her Mom says she can't have any presents/I have to abide by that. As far as whether or not she'll take care of them -- frankly/Carol is a ditz & loses everything. So I dunno. She's been asking for diamond studs for 2 yrs. now. Maybe they'd mean enuf for her to take care of them. (I cd always buy them & give them to her next year... assuming she's off punishment by then.) How does any girl learn how to take are of good jewelry unlesss someone finally gives her some? Or maybe her Mom not allowing her any presents is God's way of tell me not to buy her those earrings...

I don't have any kids, but I will give you my advice anyway. My mother always told my siblings and myself that we could do whatever we wanted (drink, smoke, drugs) as long as we didn't try to hide it from her. And it would have been really easy for us to do any of those things because we live in an area that's sort of famous for drugs. But none of us ever did that stuff. I might guess it was because of our mother's laid-back attitude about it all. There was just no thrill in any of that stuff. Half the fun is the rebelious part of it, isn't it? The rest of my childless opinion is that if your friend isn't getting high anymore, than I don't see what she's saying as hypocritical, but rather as trying to get her daughter to learn from her mistakes (if she considers them mistakes). I can see you're in a tough spot. I have a hard time Not speaking out when I see my friends doing things I think are wrong (or whatever) too. You don't have to tell your friend what to do, but maybe you could just talk to her about it. She won't get mad at you for expressing your opinion, will she?

I truly don't know. I think her new husband has a lot to do w/her attitude towards her daughter. They're both very religious -- at least when it comes to raising their kids. And I know this is the kind of thing that can ruin a long-standing friendship. *sigh* Well/I have to buy the earrings by Sun. to get the price they quoted me at the store. So I'll decide tomorrow whether or not to get them for Carol & hold onto them/or just forget abt it. But Agatha & Dani (& anyone else w/kids) -- I cd really use yr 2 cents worth on this...

I truly don't know. I think her new husband has a lot to do w/her attitude towards her daughter. They're both very religious -- at least when it comes to raising their kids. And I know this is the kind of thing that can ruin a long-standing friendship. *sigh* Well/I have to buy the earrings by Sun. to get the price they quoted me at the store. So I'll decide tomorrow whether or not to get them for Carol & hold onto them/or just forget abt it. But Agatha & Dani (& anyone else w/kids) -- I cd really use yr 2 cents worth on this...

i'm really the wrong person to ask about this, rc. i would prefer my child be honest with me about everything, and part of this commitment to honesty is to try to see things from her perspective as an individual, and not just as my daughter. if cleo was interested in smoking pot, i would probably smoke it with her to let her experience what it was like. i suppose this makes me a bad mother, but i would much rather my child experiment with my knowledge than behind my back, and kids that age will experiment pretty much regardless of what their parents do or say. so, like i said, i'm probably the wrong person to ask.

NO -- you're a good person to ask, Agatha. Except for the fact that Cleo is only 5 & certainly not interested in experimenting w/drugs yet! Let me know how you handle the issue in 10 years. Will you ask Dave to check in & read the posts & give me his 2 cents worth as well? Maybe fathers are more strict when it comes to daughters & that's why my girl's husband is so furious at Carol... (But THAT kind of hipocrisy galls me no end!) I'm so glad I'm not a mother...

it's hard. i'll tell him to lookieloo.

Well, I'm only here to help RC because Lather is incommunicado, so the rest of you can go to hell. Lather has kids and he was honest with them about his history and they turned out as drug-free as a parent could hope for. So I'd say honesty is the best bet, but I don't know how he would have reacted if his kids hadn't turned out as clean-cut as they did. I will get that info from him today. He tried to respond to you, but he couldn't find the thread (being new, he has some difficulty navigating). All I can offer myself is my (childless) opinion: that telling kids they'll turn into a werewolf if they smoke a joint is doing them a disservice, b/c they smoke the joint and it's not true, and then they don't believe you abt. hard drugs.

I asked Lather. Lather says that, were he in your friend's situation (btw, his kids were also raised hardcore Christian), he would discuss the issue realistically with his kids and teach them responsibility... sit down and smoke with them and tell them they either need to wait until they're older or do it when he's around. However, he also feels that everyone should choose how they want to raise their kids. He advises you to get the gift and if your friend wants to intercept it or hold it until her daughter is off of punishment, that's her concern and you shouldn't interfere with that, but you couldn't anyway, so no harm done.

fuck it, i'm gonna offer my advice anyway RC, this is what i would do, and I smoke pot regularly. If i had a child i would hide it from them until the child is old enough to understand what the hell it is. I would sit them down and explain that mommy and daddy occasionally partake in this. I would explain what it does, how it can be harmful as far as lung cancer goes. I would also tell them the benefits that others in our society find from using it. I would explain that they can try it under my supervision, I would prefer them to be home. Offering them reassurance is critical, because you don't want them thinking you are a druggie. Explain that you only partake when you don't have to drive and when the kids are all asleep and taken care of. Explain that they will alawys come first and it is simply a recreational thing, not to be confused with hard drugs. I think if parents demystify these things, be honest and open with their kids, encourage the child to learn for them selves,you will not find so many kids running rampant,trying their damnest to hide their doings from the parents. I would rather my kid smoking pot in my house than on the street with the risk of getting caught. Your friend needs to reevaluate the situation. She needs to understand the kid is probably gonna smoke more pot than ever simply as a confused way to express her individuality. Thats all teenagers want is to express their individuality and an adult who comes in and scolds them for their actions will only prompt the child to do the opposite. I have friend who did this exact thing with her kids and pot (the a forementioend ideal way of dealing with it) and much like Isolades situation, her girls had no interest in even trying it.

I appreciate your collective advice... but I really think there is a VAST cultural gap happening here that prolly can'y be bridged on a msg. board. I know that for most of you/race is not an issue. But in all my life/the only people I've ever heard advocate getting high w/yr kids rather than having them doing it out in the street/are Whitefolks. Black parents simply are NOT having this. Even if yr father is a junkie from way back/even if yr mom is the biggest crackhead in the neighborhood -- African-American parents are NOT going to let their kids sit down & get high w/them. Esp. not Black Christian parents. Call it hypocritical/but even as a child/I always understood that grown-ups saved the best toys for themselves. Part of the privilege of being an adult was that you can choose to do naughty or bad things that your kids aren't entitled to do. As far as the gifts go/I had to send my younger god-daughter (Carol's sister) her Xmas gift. Since I was ordering a CD's from Amazon.com/I just went ahead & ordered one for Carol too. If her Mom chooses not to give it to her/oh well... And I decided against the earrings. Maybe I'll get them for her for graduation. But thanks, everyone, for yr advice.

but does there HAVE to be a race gap as far as this issue goes? Raising a child is raising a child regardless, right? facts kids will experiment MOST kids will try pot reagrdless of parent involvement or not assessment doesn't parent involvment with the almost inherent "rite of passage" (if you will) ensure some sort of sense of responsibility, or at least increase the chances of more responsible behavior with said "taboo" actions. I am not saying parents might as well do it with them, and say it's ok. but again the demystification of something will almost always gurantee or more positive outlook onthe subject. example. European drinking laws. If i have my perceieved facts straight, euros in general have less alcohol ABUSE than americans, young adults are allowed to drink wine with special dinners by their parents, in very small moderations, therefore college level "BINGE DRINKING" is not so much of an issue, because the kids there are less intrigued by something they know and may have already experienced. eitherway, however it is dealt with, i hope all turns out and the kid is not totally crucified for having a joint.

Russia & Poland have HUGH problems w/alcoholism -- in no small measure becuz vodka is their national drink. So it cuts both ways. But I can't see my girl telling he daughter, "Let's roll up a fattie & talk abt drugs." And what teen wants to get high w/their parents -- Blecch!

I'd say that something like drug use has a lot of factors, like the way parents and children interact, etc, that are different for different cultures. As such, the solutions used successfully in one culture may or may not be effective in another. Hope it works out for the best. Sorry we couldn't be more help.

I don't do drugs and I never have. I smoked dope once and it was when I was about 25 and I didn't like the way that it made my lungs feel like they were on fire so I never did it again. As a result of my experience I do not think that doing drugs is inevitable in a person's life but it is in many lives. RC, I think that your friend (the Mother) should instead of being so angry at her daughter who is going through a pretty normal thing here take stock of what it is that she is really so angry about. Obviously her reaction doesn't fit the crime. It would seem that she is taking out her anger about her own involvement with drugs on her child. Did she feel that her involvement with drugs was a horrible experience (esp w/ her new husband's imput?). Is she ashamed of her past? Does she have a legit reason to fear her kid will become a drug abuser? It seems to me she should recognise that 1) her freaking out is her issue and 2) denying her child an entire xmas is not going to refocus the kid on being 'good', it will just make her mad at the parent and feel more secretive about such stuff in the future. I mean how would you feel if you were Carol? A friend of mine's Aunt found a joint on her 14 year old and she just gave the stern face and told him she was very disappointed in him that this was the choice he made with his life but it was his life wasn't it. He actually gave her the other joint he had and told her she was right and he wanted her to get rid of it. Carol would probably get more out of the whole thing if her Mother sat down with her, told her why she used to use drugs, tell her why she stopped, and tell her why her she feels life is better now because of it. In my experience parents do best leading by example and giving kids the credit they are due as intelligent people who can make intelligent choices. I think you did the right thing with the gifts. It will be up to the mom if she gets anything but this year isn't the one for diamond earrings. I also don't advocate getting high with your kids and I am white. My Stepfather did this at his wedding and he succeeded in totally freaking out my ex-beau, my sister, and I (the other two smoke dope and just felt creeped out that he wanted to get high with them). I really thought he was pathetic loser trying to be young and hip (wait, I didnt' just think it HE WAS!). This coupled with his alchoholism made it a fun fest for all - gak! More on the topic I'm sure if you were 14 and your parents wanted to get high with you you would decide it was the un-coolest thing in the world to get high, so as a form of stopping a kid from getting involved in anything I say go for it.

i'd love to get high with my dad. i just don't know how to go about doing it.

Does your Dad get high? My old roommate had a grandma who wwanted to get high with he and his siblings and they pretended they didn't know what she was talking about 'C'mon I want you to get me the Mary-Jane' 'What Grandma?' 'Reefer' 'What? I don't know what you're talking about'

he used to. i don't know if he does anymore.

Well you'll never know if you don't ask. Mebbee you could find a way to hint around it. Make it into a father-son bonding experience. Just make sure he doesn't tell you you can't have xmas if you tell him you smoked. In fact, maybe it's better to wait till after xmas. That is unless you're Jewish in which case - go for it.

i wasn't necessarily advocating that parents get high with their kids....generally speaking the more involved a parent is in the kids life, the more of a friend the parent proves to be in those critical years, the better off things can be. My hairstylists has two daughters one 8 and one 12. Both girls are very mature, she is a single mom and is very sensible. She smokes pot, when the kids are asleep and their needs arelooked after, she never smokes in front of them, but hey know what she is doing, she talked and reassured them early on about what it does, how it effects them, what not to do amd so on. She encouraged that her kids at least smoke in the house if they every wanted to try it to talk to her bout it first. She said her kids were very mature about it and expressed no interst in trying it, but they have such a confidence and commraderie with their mom that they CAN feel comfortable...i think this situation is ideal, that is when a teenager views the parents as friends as well as parents.. I was always at odds with my mom, she was the the exact opposite of what I am saying here and look at me know, teahead alcoholic........

Two assumptions I would like to question: 1. "That situation is ideal" That situation is ideal for that family. There is no such thing as an ideal way to run a family. And certainly something that has only worked in one culture is not going to be ideal for everyone. 2. The unspoken assumption that that situation will result from the same action taken by another family with a radically different dynamic, as well as different cultural factors.

I think that knowledge of what a drug does and how it affects you is key to this--where I grew up, it was pretty common for the kids in high school to binge drink like college kids do. By the time they got into college, they lost all interest in drinking--they tried, they saw, they dropped it.

Dinner Lady: You raised some very good points. From what I recall/Cheryl & I had some great times getting high together. I don't think it was something she needs to be ashmaed of. But the fact that Carol initially got the joint at the Youth Center & cd have been busted smoking reefer by her grandmother (who is director of the Center & a community big-whig) added fuel to the fire. And since Cheryl's 1st husband (Carol's father) became a crackhead for a time/I guess there's a possibility that Carol may have inherited the tendency towards drug problems. So maybe her mother feels the need to be esp. vigilant. Carol seems to have no interest in drinking. But her mom & step-dad don't bring any booze into the house/so... I just feel so bad for Carol. I mean/this time last year she was on punishment for having sex (more than once & w/out condoms). They had her on lockdown for nearly 10 mos. -- she just got her after-school privileges back in Oct. Now/she's back in the doghouse again! I hope she leans something from all this hassle. But I can't imagine what it wd be...

to evade capture at all costs, thats all resentment in a teen builds extremely fast...they haven't quite learned how to deal with all of their emotions, often they will do something simply to spite....

[I am not black, I am not a parent, I am not giving rc advice, I am just posting gratuitously] a good punishment for a teenager caught with week might be making her/him share a bowl with the parents. if I were 15 years old and my mother got mad at me for something she found in my purse, I would be SO PISSED. but I had a don't ask/don't tell policy with my parents. I could stay out as late as I wanted without even telling them where I was going as long as I got straight a's in school. of course, I was pretty much an adult at age 14, when I started spending each summer in europe or hawaii or california without my parents or other relatives, doing a great job of faking that I was all grown up. my parents, who are european, let us drink wine when we were kids, and I remember being completely shocked when I found out that a friend of mine stole cans of bud from her dad and drank them out in the woods. she said she had to be careful only to take a couple when there were a lot of them, so I said, "oh, well, I'll give you a bunch from my house. no one will care." I sure as hell didn't want to drink that crap. in high school my mom used to offer to make me rum and cokes or whatever while I was cleaning my room, but I just couldn't stand the taste. she practically pushed it on me, especially on new year's eve. NO, I DON'T WANT ANY CHAMPAGNE. IT'S GROSS. if it weren't for bartles and jaymes and their wild berries-flavored gateway drug, I might still be a non-drinker today.

I've gotten shit faced with my mum.. I've made her and her partner John almost wet themselves laughing at the stupid things Jules and I have done while stoned. I was brought up being allowed to do whatever - smoke, drink, get into clubs - as long as I told my mum what I was up to. Admittedly the 17 year age gap probably does make us more like sisters than mum and daughter - but being allowed to do stuff makes you really not want to do it. The thrill is gone.

I agree with Moonit to a degree, but the individual personalities must make a difference. My sister and I were both brought up the same - liberal attitude to drugs, good relationship with our mum, etc. She OD'ed on heroin, and I have never had so much as a puff on a joint. I have got shitfaced on alcohol though. I don't think I was at all keen on dope as a teenager, because the whole smoking anything had no glamour for me. All I could see were the slides of people's lungs all filled with cancer they used to scare us with. Plus none of my fiends smoke anything, legal or not. So the peer pressure for that was never there. My sister used to tell mum most stuff, but she knew where the line was drawn, and if she did anything that was disapproved of, she tried to make sure we never found out. I never knew she used heroin until she died, but apparently she'd been using on and off for abt 4 years, keeping it hidden from anyone she knew would not approve. I don't know why we turned out so different. Our upbringing was essentially the same.

<<I know that for most of you/race is not an issue. But in all my life/the only people I've ever heard advocate getting high w/yr kids rather than having them doing it out in the street/are Whitefolks.>> woohoo, you just met your first non-white parent who would rather get high with her kids than have them out doing it on their own! My mother isn't white. Okay, you haven't actually met her, but trust me, she exists.

You got kids, Gee? Since when!?

Well there would be a decided cast to the posts, the liberal attitudes, availability, and 'no biggie' attitude seems to leave people less interested in abuse from what I see here. More about Carol and her Mother, it does sound like they are always at odds. Punishing her for having sex, for smoking dope (ya, I hadn't really thought of it till Cyst said something - why was Mom rifiling through Carol's purse? - this just says 'I don't trust you and I'm out to get you'),.. this sort of harshess I can only imagine will lead to more abuses. At some level being bad is about attention seeking though. How did Mom find out Carol had unprotected sex? She had to have told her - and she knew when she did she would get in trouble - yes? Cheryl prob needs to sort out her feelings about her former crackhead husband and really talk to Carol if she wants to make an impact. Carol's swiftness to get back in the doghouse is impressive - does she like it there? NZ Angel - That is really sad about your sister. You're right, it's hard to know what it is that makes people who grow up in the same house/situation become so different in key ways. They do always say that each child is born into a different home (ie: the eldest a home with no other children, later ones a home with a child already in it) so maybe that explains part of it. We're all individuals from birth I suppose.

Oh, no, I was talking about my mother. I don't have kids. My mother has kids, though. saying that made me laugh. =o)

Actually/her mother went in her fanny-pack for her (Carol's) locker key. It apparently falls off off her keychain & Carol is too much of a ditz to dump out her bag & search thoroughly for things. She'd been whining to her Mom that she cdn't find her gym locker key at the Youth Center/so she put her stuff in her friend's locker. Her Mom had told her to look for the key in her fanny pack/after Carol insisted it wasn't there. Cheryl found both the key & the joint/becuz the fanny pack reeked/which made her search thru everything in it. Which seems fair enuf/IMO. If you're gonna bring contraband into the house/it had better se the odorless kind.

Not ready to get 1/2 carat earings yet.Help us R.C.

earrings :)

But C'mon -- how many times have you misplaced yr house keys? Now -- how many times have you misplaced yr diamond earrings? I rest my case. I really don't think she'd lose them. But I also think at this point/it's better to wait until she graduates & get them for her on a once-in-a-lifetime occasion. (IF she actually finishes h.s.)

I bought Heather some saphire and diamond earrings(thanks M.L.:) that were on sale at Mervyns 60 percent off,and a friend that works there got me an extra 15 percent off,so I got $250.00 earrings for under a $100.00.They match the ring I got her last year.

hello i just wanted to say that it is so hard to work with kids at a young age. i just want to give props to the the preganat teen women out there. i know how u feel.

i wonder if Carol ever got those earrings. hey patrick! check out all that great parental advice to yourself up there. and also, I was worried about Carol getting punished for having sex, until i read that she did so without condoms. (did they catch her or something? twice??) Anyhoo, if there was another dimension where i had a kid, and i found out he/she was having sex without protection, i think that would be the one thing that would really make me lose it. I would rain down upon the child like a thousand hells. Fuck no tv and no phone, I'm talking no shoes for a month. oh, dreams.