As I drove down PCH past the channel islands where the airliner crashed this week, I stopped to take a moment to look, but no wallets or anything cool was washing ashore so I left. What a waste. Of my time.

the world needs more people like you. the world also needs more film of women having sex with horses.

But did it make you laugh, even for a second?

the comment, not the crash.

yup.

Did you hear about the Masonic ring the found ona pice of wreckage? See CNN for details. They totally make it seem like it's NOT a part of the conspriacy.

Not really terribly funny, SE. Plus, this kind of stuff (shock humour about any tragic accident) has kinda been done to death, don't you think? (i.e., Howard Stern wanting to book tickets to the 14th Street bridge; Howard Stern fans calling up TV news anchors with "reports.")

No actually I dont think so. You see, Howard Stern just is not funny. That's his problem. Mine is that I have seen and experienced more tragedy and loss than probably 99% of americans, and sorabji will certainly testify to that on my behalf. How many of the people posting here have been in combat, raise your hands. How many of those with your hands up have been wounded in action? I could go on crying about my life, but what's the point. I couldnt help thinking of all those folks when I drove by Point Mugu yesterday, esp. the family that was wiped out. Besides, I wasnt really out to be 'really terribly funny' but instead, cruel, base and thought provoking. Mission accomplished. What IS a funny joke tho is- How many Nam vets does it take to change a lite bulb? If you don't know, then you just weren't fucking THERE MAN!!!!! Gots tah go, some flies laying around still got wings on'em.

so sweet. cruelty on the killing floor. my work here is done.

So why'd you ask if it made Nate laugh if you weren't "out to be 'really terribly funny' but instead, cruel, base and thought provoking."? I think Howard Stern is funny sometimes, when he's not talking about breasts, which is pretty much 95% of the time. However, I'm not into this shock crap -- there are 2 radio jocks on in NY at drivetime named Opie and Anthony. Talk about unfunny. You can tell from their hysterical, forced laughter at their own jokes that they're desperately trying to convince their listeners that what they're doing is funny, whereas it's just infantile bullshit. Anyways, before coming to NY, they were fired from a Boston station for reporting that the mayor of Boston had died. Funny huh? Can you imagine being the mayor's kid or wife, and just happening to hear that on the radio?

but i did laugh. and truely, in the grand scheme of things, whose opinion is more important?

Obviously Nate, in your mind, yours is. Truely.

I thought the joke was funny, not the crash...too.And I,m deathly afraid of flying and I have to fly somewhere next month.How can you compare SE,s joke on this board to something offensive some D.J.s broadcast over the air?

So then what's the difference between SE's joke and Howard Stern's joke? What makes SE's joke so funny, but Howard Stern's so offensive, J? Because SE's been to Vietnam and has seen more tragedy than 99% of this board, so he's intitled to make such jokes? Because his posting is just internal to this board and not the entire country hears/sees it? What makes it so funny?

I was going to refer you to my original post on one of the Laws of Comedy, but I can't seem to find it. The gist was, the more offensie a joke is,the funnier it is likely to be. The rest of it was something to the effect that not even french children in wheelchairs with syphillis were immune to jokes. i wish I could find that post, but I just spent the last half hour searching the message boards and couldn't track it down.

Actually, Dougie, SE is entitled to talk that way if he has, in fact, experienced what he says. But, then again, we're all going to die eventually anyway, so we're all entitled. Who gives a shit how tragic your life has been? We're all entitled to approach it however the fuck we want to. I'd just like to leave you with this thought: If it were possible to talk to the unborn, one could never explain to them how it feels to be alive, for life is washed in the speechless real. - Jacques Barzun

Of course SE's entitled to post/say whatever he wants. All of us are, thank god. And I believe him if he says he was in combat and wounded. I could never even imagine what that must be like. But that wasn't the point. SE asked if it made anyone laugh. I told him it didn't make me laugh. I was just trying to find out why it made other people laugh and what made it funny to them, not whether he had the right to post it. I'm just not a big fan of humour at the expense of others, that's all.

*shakes Dougie's hand* well said!

There was no humor in "looking for wallets and cool things washing ashore." The above post was a waste of MY time.

I doubt there was much laughing on board,while that aircraft spun crazily for the six minuets it took to hit the water.

Czarina this kind of shocks me coming from you whose always trying to book your husbands flights on value jet.I remember us making jokes when the Rev.Dorthy Bell,s dad,s body was found in that shed,"don,t wrap it,bag it"I said and we all cracked up.Don,t you ever make up jokes like that working in E.R. to help "cope"? Dougie you kind of answered your own question,I,m sure S.E. having fought in combat has seen some things that he never wanted to see and never should have seen they probably made jokes to help cope,alot of cops,firemen,paramedic,(E.R. nurses?)etc.make jokes to help them deal with, cope with all the morbidness.I am on the sick and twisted jokes mailing list and I really like it.

There may have been some humor in the original joke, but i think it needed some polishing. Anyway, i agree about the coping mechanism. A character in a series of books i read a lot back in college was once asked if he ever took anything seriously, and he replied, "Sure, I laugh at the world. But i think that if i didn't laugh at the world, I'd spend all my time crying for it."

J,when I try to book my s/o's flights on Value Jet,I have all the confidence that they will uphold their usual standards of excellence,in other words, go down promptly,not some nightmare of six minuets of the most unimaginable terror. Coming from a family of pilots,[ my father and all of my uncles],and having flown both on small aircraft and commercially since I was tiny, and knowing from first hand experience what it feels like to be in trouble while airborne,I would definately choose the small craft,because at LEAST you have some idea of what is happening/coming if you're in the cockpit.I cannot imagine the horror those passengers went through,while spiraling down,and no I do not think there is anything funny about it. As for Dorothy Bell,she didn't kill her father,just packed him around in a giant zip-lock bag.That is funny-------------it wouldn't be funny had she put him in there before he was dead. For SE,I have no sympathy,he/she made the choice to go.Whatever the motivational factor was,young/stupid,young/patriotic,young/coward,young/cruel-------regardless,this person made the choice to go.This was a war America had no business participating in.I actively protested the war.This person did have a choice,sometimes it takes more courage to be a leader than a follower, there were options open, Canada,Mexico.So whatever his motivational factor was,he went.I am sorry for all the hidious things he saw/did,and has to live with,but he wasn't the only one there and I don't think it gives you a license for "Oh,boo-hoo, poor me."

Every joke is at someone's expense. Otherwise, it's not a joke. I can't think of a joke that involves only inanimate or non anthropomorphized objects. Can you?

Q: What did one wall say to the other wall? A: Meet you around the corner! I think this whole conversation is ridiculous, but that's the first joke I ever learned and I couldn't waste the chance to tell it again.

Having a wall say something anthropomorphizes it. Yep, this is ridiculous. This site is ridiculous. I like ridiculous. Has the word "ridiculous" lost it's meaning yet? And, so - Master Kung-kuo once asked Chuang-tzu, "This thing called Tao - where does it exist?" Chuang-tzu answered, "It is in the piss and shit."

I think that if yuo really examine world religions, the ones that are the most enlightening have all the best jokes.

That tells us something.

J and Semillama, point well taken about needing a coping mechanism. Antigone, not sure that it has to be at a person's expense. Isn't there a difference between generally making fun of human foibles, and making jokes directed at a real person or a group of people and their misfortunes?

I don,t know,I felt really bad when Princess Di died,I always felt bad for her being married to that putrid horse face miserable bastard,and she finally got away from the creep and was happy then to die like that.I felt very bad about that,but I laughed at the jokes.John Kennedy Jr....what can I say,how tragic,I use to think about him and touch myself,but I laughed at the jokes.Of course if somebody made jokes about the death of one of my friends or family I,d beat the shit out of them.

My apologies to all I offended,when I saw the original post in this thread,I had just heard that it took 6 minuets for the plane to go down,and being from a family of pilots,it just hit to close to home. And J, you are most certainly correct about cracking crude jokes in times of stress,I am definitely guilty of that.Sometimes the situation is so ghastly in the hospt. environment,that we'd all lose it, and not be able to perform our given skills, if the tension wasn't cut. Again, my apologies.

No need to do that sweetpea:)

one thing you all have overlooked. SE, should have never been on the beach looking for shit to take home....the coast guard and the ntsb have strict orders not to distrub anything on the beach. the vietnam joke is funny, and so is howard stern's bit about being in vietnam, all he talks about is blowing up schools and churchs. you should here the brainless vets call in and start freakin, "what sqaud, what platoon??? you weren't there man....what was your rank blah blah blah" of course he is lying out his ass, but thats the whole point. The punch line is SE's joke reiterates that, and it's agood joke, and when you tell it, you have to raise your voice and throw on a John Foggerty/Chong type voice...... howard stern IS funny, he can play the tit and ass bit too much at times, but considering how long he has kept this up at a vigorous pace, he deserves credit. now the booking of a flight to the 14th street bridge is brilliant....also the bit where he spanked a woman on the ass with a fish....while she sang hotel california....thats fucking funny, for two reasons. a) the mere thought of spanking with a fish b) this lady was dumb enough to subject herself, she deserves to be laughed at, HARD, she was looking to make her career as a singer.......

that brings up a point... you can think what you want about howard stern, but why do all of those women want to take their clothes off for him? some really beautiful women who want to go in and be 'judged' by this room of guys acting like losers. i don't get it.

exactly......some of the funniest shit is when they start ragging on each other, or better yet when Mr.and Mrs Stern get called into the picture. His dad is fucking hilarious...i have to admit, most of sterns demographics, as far as women go, are like truck stop whores and heavy metal groupies....blaghjhhhahahck!!!!!!

Well, clearly I got the rise I was seeking here. One thing that seems to have been missed though is that I definately DONT feel sorry for myself. Just the opposite. I am the luckiest guy around. I have pictures where I am the only guy left alive in the shot. That is not tragic, its lucky as fuck. Secondly, clearly I wasnt actually looking for swag from the crash, its a joke. Chickens rarely cross the road for example. What amuses me most about civilians is the lame ass selection of human tragedy for the moment. Folks get all weepy and shit over such a rare and sudden event like a plane crash, but in the time everyone was watching the story unfold, how many children slowly starved to death? If life is so precious on this planet, why is it wasted so very much? I read once that some organization went all over the globe asking people if they were happy. Most hadnt even considered the question, literally. I am not a veteran of viet nam by the way. I am a veteran of the cold war. I was a by god border guard on the czech and east german border. Imagine being a life guard that couldnt help a swimmer that wasnt inside a given area. Imagine seeing families zapped trying to get free and you could only sit back and watch. Things like that tend to warp your sense of humour as a survival mechanism. the best part of it though, I have a very clear understanding of man's inhumanity to man. I also understand how shitty life can be, so it is really quite tough to depress me. Also, something to ask yourselves. What have YOU done for humanity? What have YOU sacrificed for the cause, any cause? I feel like such a slacker when I think of some of the things folks do for each other, with no expectation of reward. At least, History will remember the service of my squadron as honorable. They now keep the peace in Kosovo and Bosnia. I acknowledge the fact that I could have easily been convinced of the nobility of the Viet Nam cause earlier, but I got lucky, and had a just mission. I giggle when I think about the issues people have. People that have never tasted true hardships, that worry and fret over life's daily bullshit trials. I feel sorry for them since they sadly have no perspective. Every day I think, "You know, no one is out to kill me today."(except those that dont like my humour) or "Hey, I slept in a bed! INDOORS!" then I think of the poor chechen civilians. Then I skip off to work, happy as can be, as I know I had better appreciate life as it tends to disappear before most people do. Lets face it kids, Life is hard, were a helmet. You ain't getting out alive. Besides, most humour is at the expense of others lets face it.

SE, I'm not saying we should have a cryfest over the airline crash, and I cringe when the media swarms over the victims' families and ask them how they feel, and I'll puke if I hear the phrase "...and now the families must start the healing process..." one more time. It's true, there were probably just as many people killed in highway accidents the same day as the airplane crash who didn't make the frontpage news -- I guess it's something more of a spectacle when many perish at once. You asked the question, did anyone laugh at your joke. Some people said yes, some people (including me) said no. I didn't say I felt morally superior to those who laughed, I merely said I didn't think it was that funny of a joke. Then I compared it to shock humour radio jockeys of which I'm not a big fan. I'm not a thin-skinned prude, nor a bleeding heart weeping for whom the media tells me to weep for. Sure, life's a bitch and then you die. But maybe if there was just a little more common decency in the world, life wouldn't have to be as much of a bitch as it already is.

Angry sam and i were discussing a book he is reading by revolutionary Ernesto Che Guevara, called The Motorcycle Diaries. Did you know that he and Castro took Cuba by landing in a yacht. They soon built an army and took over. a yacht!!!! we talked about everything this guy did, all the revolutions he started, and the impact he had on the world in general. I wish i had the book, he closes by going on a rant about taking over the world, leading the proliteriate to victory. When he was executed at 39, his accomplismnets in Cuba, Boliva and Congo were amazing....sam was expressing amazement in what he predicted in the beginning of the book, while inhis 20s and what he accomplished at the end......i must read this book

SE, I was in combat, I've had people try to kill me on a daily basis, and I've witnessed human atrocities which are literally indescribable. That is all described elsewhere. I can understand your comment about the general lack of perspective most people in this country have regarding what constitutes hardship in life. Bad commute today? Please. You imply that you've been in combat and been wounded, and say that you witnessed atrocities. What were the circumstances? I don't recall any border skirmishes or shooting between NATO and the WTO. And a "border guard" on the West German border with the DDR and Czechoslovakia would have been West German, not NATO troops. I'm assuming you were US Army; what were the circumstances of your service? Che had no impact on the world in general, just Cuba, a small part of it. And that was predominantly negative. He was naively idealistic at best, complicit in a murderous dictatorship at worst. Not one of my role models, obviously.

considering i haven't read it yet, if i had to make a guess, he did have great impacts in the respective countries he started revolutions in. I mean to take Cuba, by arriving in a fucking yacht, to me is symbolic of american arrogance of it's fallability. at the time, Cuba was a resort for rich america with casinos run by the mob, and when he knocked over that american puppet, Battivsta (spell?), it shook things up quite a bit. It seems Russia soon stepped in and traded arms for the missle silos. He and Castro almost brough on nuclear annihilation by this action. in his home country of Bolivia, or was he from Guatemala, either way in Bolivia, where the leader (whose name i forget) at the time was taking in 98% of the GNP, while the people starved, he stepped in, and created revolution which was very much needed. A man starving due to a selfish ruler has nothing to loose but to take up arms. The world needs revolutionaries like him. Of course there is the flipside to his actions. He was indeed a war monger. But it seems, at times, actions like his are necessary. On a sidenote, during the conversation with angry sam, i stepped back and thought of how many times we deployed mass troops to combat the spread of communism since WW2. We lost each time..........what an embarrassment.

WTF? We deployed mass troops to Western Europe for fifty years to go face to face with communist expansion, and I didn't see any of those countries falling. In fact, some of the former WTO countries we were facing off against have joined NATO and the others are clamoring to, along with the biggest capitalistic organization in the world, the EU. Looks like we won that one, and so decisively that it pretty much ended the historical debate that Marx and Engels helped start. Our major enemy, the other party in the bipolar model, doesn't even exist anymore. We're the only superpower left in the world. If that's losing, I could use some more. Korea: We beat back a North Korean invasion of the South, which remains a free market democracy to this day, with the aid of our ongoing troop deployment. Win. Vietnam: the French spark a justified independence movement with their oppressive colonial policies, and then hand it over to us. Won the battles, lost the war. Grenada: Big ass win. But the cold war was rarely about direct conflict. It was fought using everything from propaganda to proxy wars. And we pretty much won those. Angola? UNITA was kept alive to bring the MPLA to the negotiating table, resulting in fair elections. Nicaragua? Pressure on the Sandanistas forced the same result. (PJ O'Rourke has a hilarious piece on witnessing this election as a journalist.) South Yemen? Doesn't exist anymore. Afghanistan? Again, supllying our proxies forced the Soviets out of there. The Soviets were kicked out of Egypt and the entire Mideast, leaving them with no influence except with their clients the PLO and minimally with Syria. The US Navy has ruled the seas since 1943. The only people embarassed today are the Marxists, and those who don't study history. There are only two countries that even claim to be Communist, and those are just repressive gerontocracies desparately clinging to power.

Man, I get so tored of the soldier's beef against civilians: ?you haven't experienced combat and shit so what do you know about suffering?? Isn't that why soldiers fight, so civilians don't have to experience combat? Unless you were drafted, you have no excuse to whine like that.

It's not a whine. He's not talking about himself. He's talking about what he's seen in the rest of the world, and saying that he's got it good. Read the post. I, for one, have no problems. I don't have someone trying to kill me daily, just because of my last name. I don't have a drunken sadist with a gun forcing me to bite off my own father's testicles. I'm not starving in the middle of plenty that is being withheld from me deliberately. I don't have to walk three miles a day throuigh minefields and snipers to get water for my family. I'm not being gangraped by a group of soldiers and deliberately impregnated to bear a baby of "a superior race". I'm not living in a society where my house is bugged and my neighbors are filing reports on me with the secret police. I'm not watching someone burn my children alive, slit open my pregnant wife's belly, and then send me to a concentration camp. I either witnessed each one of these, or knew firsthand someone who it happened to. What I do have is some yuppie cutting me off in traffic with his SUV. I've got to pay a little more for gas when I go to the beach, because fuel prices rose moderately. I can't get access to the Internet whenever I want it. I'm running late for the drycleaners, and it's too late to get my shirts for tomorrow. I've got some guy whining to me that he's tired of hearing the viewpoint of someone who served his country in the military. Problems? No, I've got no problems. I've got it damn good. And whenever I forget this, I remember my friends, and the faceless dead, and the destroyed living, back where I was a privileged visitor.

how does it happen? how are there people that can do those horrible things (not the suv's mind you) and then there are the people that survive it and still act with compassion to others?

People who have served in the military deserve respect, but they're not always right. Should I take every perl of wisdom from you without question? Our prosperity is based partly on the blood and suffering of others. There's no way I repay that, but I don't plan on experiencing it myself. Am I less of a person because I choose to not experience what you have? Others can't choose. I can. What's wrong with that? Besides, you couldn't feel all superior if yuppies didn't exist.

how come you're getting so defensive, Antigone? Markus and SE don't seem like they're saying there's anything wrong with you cuz you didn't "serve". They just seem to be putting their own lives in perspective.

I think many men who don't go into the Armed forces feel a mixture of relief and guilt. Not that that's an excuse to go into the Armed Forces. I didn't, for example, because a. I had much better things to do with my time and b. I don't think I could ethically be in a position where I had to kill some other person because our governments are disagreeing over something or other. Now, of course, for a while we had it made, because we would just set up death squads in the countries with brown people in them. Then that whole oil thing sprang up, and the guy we set up to run death squads was suddenly the bad guy, so we had to send in the troops! Here, have a shot! When the hell was it that we even had any idea what we were fighting for? The Indian Wars? Don't get me wrong, i am not anti-military, I'm just against the way governments like to use the military. My all-time "favorite" was back in the Depression when the Army was used to disperse WWI vets who were actually demanding the monetary support that had been promised to them. The nerve of them!

My husband went to college but burned his draft card,my dad waas in the D.A.V and the V.F.W,my first "real" boyfriend was a boy I met in W.V. after I got out of Good Shepard on a out of state release.He had dimpels and a cleft on his chin,he was funny,probally related to me.Anyway he got busted for shoplifting(God forgive me,I never asked him for anything)he was given a choice join the service or do jail time,he chose the service,he thought that having a criminal record was worse than enlisting.He wrote me a few times and then my letters to him were returned.After I called his mom she told me he was dead,he didn,t even last two weeks,stepped on a mine,he was 19.

I've got nothing against people who didn't serve in the military. In fact, I think most people today are unsuited. And I certainly don't appreciate the "jail or military" choice that judges are giving out at society's expense. Gee nailed it. I haven't said anything against people without a military background; I (and apparently SE) was just putting my life in perspective, and yes, somewhat slamming privileged people who are so self-centered that they feel that no one's ever had it as hard as they. Antigone, you were the one saying you were tired of hearing my point of view, not the other way around. I've enjoyed reading your stuff. It's about time for some more of Satan's severed head.

Speaking of privilaged, would anyone other than Ted Kennedy be in the hospital for "several more" days because of "flu-like" symptoms? I hate money and power. Twenty years ago this wouldn't seem out of the ordinary to me, but in today's day and age when they send you home HOURS after surgery, there is no excuse. I would prefer if his reps said, he has opted to stay in the hospital and recover, versus, "his doctors feel..." Any other schmuk would never have been admitted. They woulda been given a prescription and sent home. My two cents.

Maybe he's really there to dry out.

" I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided; and that is the lamp of experience.I know of no way of judging the future but by the past." Patrick Henry

well markus, it was a passing thought. i certainly wasn't implying any strict detail in those thougts. I consider the bay of pigs (duh), vietnam, and korea utter failures. Grenada, Nicarauga, Afghanistan.....shit these weren't wars man. these were "deployments" No lengthy all out offensive ever broke out on ether side. And no major conflict came from those years in eastern europe either. It's just my view of things. I consider the war in kosovo a failure. I agree that most of the cold war was fought using puppets, at the expense of poor locals with nothing to loose but pick up a gun for someone else's cause......kruschev came to me with a spify ak-47, "why not?" the starving local might ask. This to me is a faliure. I agree we are the last super power, i agree russia is no more as a super power......but the cost of human life at the expense of imperialism on both sides is utter failure to me.

we are a rogue state. the french (FUCK THE FRENCH) have superior military technology. the chinese have sufficent technology and superior numbers. the russians are choking on capitalism and ready for a change. we're fucked kids. we don't even have the "american spirit" anymore. we're fat and lazy and apathetic. we will be crushed. democracy is a sham.

i thought we weren't a democracy? agreed it's a sham in works, sounds great on paper though

Markus: Your statement, "I've got nothing against people who didn't serve in the military. In fact, I think most people today are unsuited." The possible attitude behind that statement is what I'm talking about, that subtle superiority. Also, characterizing me as a whiner gives me a clue. Should I have used more aggressive language, like "Markus, you are such a fucking mama's boy! Suck it in and quit your bitching!" Or what if I was ex military myself? Would you have said the same things?

Slow down a minute... That seems like an overreaction. I live and work in Hollywood, where freakish IS normal. I firmly believe my service was to defend the rights of the freaks, at least as much as the normals, whatever they are. I find that some have defensive reactions based on their own feelings. Some people who dont serve feel pangs of guilt, or question themselves as to whether or not they could take it. Me personally, I liked the german way of dealing with it. Every male(i'd prefer m/f) gets drafted. 100%. If you object to military service, you have to go into civil service, like a volunteer fire dept. or be a candy striper, whatever. Just think of it in our case. What if everyone, ALL CLASSES. had to spend time between 18-19 serving society. Painting schools, cleaning parks, helping the elderly. On and on. Some wouldnt benefit, but many would see their perspective in society. Might be nicer to people. Might think of others before themselves occasionally. THAT my friends, is why many join the military. The sense of responsibility to serve others. Our leaders have perverted that from time to time, but it is the desire to help or defend others that is key. I don't think markus means "you suck" but means the spirit to serve others is waaaaay low in this country at the moment. Peace corps, soup kitchen, AIDS hospice, peacekeeper in Bosnia. "There are few things that say more about man's humanity to man, than a firetruck."

no shit SE!!!!!! I work right across from Mann's. I didn't realize. I live in Silverlake? Whereabouts in Hollywood? What do you do in Hollywood? I like you approach to civil service. I think all of society should be required to do something. I did something for a state park, howeveri had to break a law to get that work assigned to me. But I applaud the judge's idea to have me do something productive rather than take silly drug classes and piss in cups....... i too think there might be an overeaction here

I have an acct at the bank of hollywood branch there. I work in digital FX by melrose and cahuenga

no shit, i often share a smoke with the bank pres. out front. that leatherfaced guy in the suit always chewin gum. Swell guy. he said the place just got bought by People's Bank but will remain Bank of Hollywood..

you smoke doobie with a bank prez out in front of his bank? kewl

um yeah, we get loaded on our lunch break. he always has the super chiba. the cops on hollywood blvd have more pressing matters

you da man!

That attitude isn't what I meant, though I can see how it might come across that way. And I think the work "whine" is inflammatory; I only used it in response to your use of it. Maybe bankers' habits such as this explain Cyst's recent fiscal adventures.

yeah, and since I last posted, I got another $20 gift. I'll close the account when the errors in my favor add up to $200 or I run out of my new checks, whichever comes first.

Hmmmm... several people have started their comments with the phrase, "no shit." May I recommend ExLax?