Sorry. I have to do this. I think firearms ownership should be legal _with a permit_. I do not think the NRA should jsutify firearms ownership with the second amendment--or rather, a segment of the second amendment, since they misuse it. "_A well regulated Militia,_ being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." WHY does the NRA _insist_ on using only "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The second amendment _does not_ guarantee the right of _all_ citizens to own weapons. It guarantees the members of a "well regulated militia" to have weapons. Don't say nothing 'bout Uncle Dick down the street. Ok. I'm done.

The NRA is so uncompromising. All this fuss over licensing and registration of firearms. No one fusses over the same for cars. No difference. None. Cars are registered and drivers are licensed because motor vehicles are potentially dangerous pieces of technology. Guns are also potentially dangerous pieces of technology. Therefore, they too should be registered, and users of guns should be licensed. I really don't see the problem with this. The NRA makes all sorts of noise that it's the bad guys who misuse guns, so why "punish" the good guys with more gun laws? Answer: responsible gun laws are not a punishment. If you license yourself as a gun user, and have yuor weapons registered, then you are known as a responsible citizen who, by complying with such registration laws, is helping to make his/her community safer. Would you rather live next to a gun woner who has registered his weapon and is licensed to use it, or one who is not? Would you want the person in the car next to you on the freeway to have a valid drivers license, or not? Grow up, folks. No one really wants to take your toys away from you, we just want to make sure everyone who has one, knows how to use it safely. that's where the licensing comes in. I think the NRA's idea of having gun safety clsses in schools would be a great idea, if it followed the driver's ed program and was combined with a license at the end of the program, learner's permit and all. Of course, there's the old argument "If we don't have guns, then the Government will take over all aspects of our lives." Get this: no armed insurrection in the United States since the Revolution has succeeded. Most great social changes for the better have come across from non-violent movements (parts of the labor movement excluded): women's right to vote, civil rights for blacks, civil rights for gays and lesbians (in some places, so far), the anti-Vietnam movement, environmental policy, etc. Power over the government does not grow from the barrel of a gun, no matter what Ted Nugent and Charlton Heston want you to believe. Who has effected more change? Randy Weaver or Martin Luther King, Jr? Eric Rudolph or Ralph Nader? The Weathermen or Bella Abzug?

Just what I was about to say. They make me irritable with their partyline.

Note to self: when the armed insurrection comes as a result of 30 years of increasingly totalitarian marshal law, Andy & Isolde do not want to be saved. Carry on.

I didn't say I don't think people should own firearms. I just think they should have licenses for them. (And the licensing should be enforced.) Even I own a gun. And I have a license.

I've got news for ya, Margaret. When the armed insurrection comes, it'll be squashed flat in about a day, maybe two. A gun doesn't do shit against biological/chemical/etc weapons. There are weapon systems in development that you can't even imagine, many of then geared towards urban warfare. Do you really think a pop gun is going to make a fucking difference? OK, it'd give you something to blow your head off with before the heavily armored soldiers break your door down. All this talk about "I need my gun for when the revolution comes" is just moronic. It's fatally naive. You were kidding, right?

what, man? you don't watch tv? when the cops come, what ya do is SHOOT at 'em. that works all the time.

Just ask that 12-year-old with the shotgun. He bagged his cop, although the cop got him as well. And I'll be out of this country long before it gets bad enough for armed insurrection.

I,m with Sem on this.5 more years and you know where I,ll be.

i am too exhausted to get in here (hand motion) mixit up!

Rosie O'Donnell belongs in the "WEEDS" thread. Somebody start one about her, please.

I have a gun...

go shoot rosie o'donnell. you'll be in all the papers.

The armed insurrection, much like Clinton's erection, is a subject of much speculation and little occurence.

I think abt shootoing people a lot lately. Only Charlton Heston & the usual NRA mouthpieces. Spent a good chunk of my weekend taking in the the Million Mom March speeches. I'm sure that's what set me off. If I cd afford a good lawyer & had been rich for a coupla years -- y'know/just long enuf to get bored w/1st-class-travel-at-will & 1st-rate-drugs-&-booze in my beachouse overlooking the ocean/& doing the Paris collections twice a year/blase, blase -- if I'd taken a sufficient bite outta the Good Life to be ready to say "Okay, I got mine -- if it's all down here from here on/WTF" I'd get myself a handgun (it simply has to be a handgun) spend a few months on target practice/then just show up at some big NRA forum & blow one of those assholes right off the podium. Entrenched assholes are the worst. Won't budge an inch. Won't give the other side the smallest modicum of credit for having a legit viewpoint. How can you be opposed to triggerlocks? If you haven't got kids in the hse./then you can leave the damn ock off if you're so sure you need immediate access to a ready-to-fire weapon. How can you be opposed to a 3-day waiting period? Or prohibiting anyone but licensed dealers from buying more than 1 gun per month? Or banning private ownership of assault weapons? I'm sure I'd never make it out of the auditorium alive. But if I did/just think of what a humdinger of a trial THAT wd be! I'd have to hire Dershowitz & Cochran. But fuck it -- it'd be worth the legal bills just to see what sort of defense they'd come up with. And maybe/when the dust cleared/the NRA wd finally Get The Point. Maybe that's what it'll take to make them stop acting like imbeciles & concede that It's The Guns, Stupid! There are too damn many of them available to anyone anywhere in America. Ah, well -- a girl can still dream...

It's a better dream to have then some...

I have nothing better to do at this moment. So I thought I would add my two cents. One: A millitia as defined at the time of writing the Bill of Rights litterally ment all able bodied men above a certain age. I believe that it was 14. But, I could be wrong on the exact age. Therefore, the argument from tha anti gun crowd that the National Guard constitutes a millitia is a lie. Two: No other amendment that uses the phrase "the people" has ever been inturpreted as a collective right as opposed to a individual right. I do not think the writers of the Constitution and Bill of Rights were stupid or ambigious in this matter. I think they ment that the right for all individuals to own a gun for, self protection, Community defense, National Defense, and Defense against an overblown tiranicle government is absolute. Finally anyone who thinks that assualt weapons should be banned knows nothing about them. The only difference between an assault rifle and a semi-automatic hunting rifle is it's physical appearence. In many cases a semi-automatic hunting rifle is more powerful and will do much more damage. God I must be Bored!!!

Damn, How did I ever miss this thread? Maybe this was just before I got here...

I think the price of ownership for any gun should be to be shot with that gun, at close range, once. No body armor allowed.

So what type of gun do you have, Antigone?

Satan's Severed Head, model 317

I want to revive the discussion. You are your own first responder. The Police can not aperate like Harry Potter and save you from the bad guy. I've taken up target shooting within the last year. And, because of this I've done a lot of reading. For all my liberal friends here you should really worry about what is going on in the world. Gun confiscation, and there are some laws on the books that allow this, is not just a threat to our rights. It makes more victims. Most encounters involving legal gun owners and criminals do not end in a shooting. Usually the criminal runs away. However, people who use other means of self defense are more likely to become injured or killed.

just be careful, watcher.

I am always careful. I am also clumsy.