I am relativley new to this board, and I don't know how political everyone is, but I have seen a number of Nader discussions spontaneously pop out in other threads. So here is the question. On November 7, who will you probably end up voting for: A) Bush B) Gore C) Nader D) Buchanan E) None of the Above F) No one

B.

A. Not that he isn't a self serving piece of shit like all politicians,but here is my slant on this,if you are poor,you vote democrat,if you have money,you vote repulican,if your filthy rich,you LIE,and vote democrat.

David McReynolds. Ok, I'm lying. Fucking GUESS.

The opposite of McReynolds would be.... Pat Buchanan?

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah... I think you made me break my ovaries.

How can you knock the man. He stands for the elimination of free trade, the environment, homosexuals, abortion, the seperation of church and state. He also is a big proponent of restarting the cold war, and making sure that defense spending regains the priority spending position that it held during those great Reagan years. But I bet he is pro-ovary, and as such, your predeliction for splitting ovaries may cause a fairlky major philosophical split.

Monica picked the wrong bloke. I would have done Gore if I was her. /End of intelligent and thought-provoking contribution from the Antipodes.

Nader. But totally because he's Nader, but because he has the best chance for that third party percentage that we so badly need for the next election. ..but i'm registered as Monarchist...

I actually like many of the political philosophies laid out by David McReynolds in the socialist party, but I imagine I will come one notch in from the Left perimiter, and vote Nader.

if gore makes that might be the straw that breaks the camel's back. hm. you all should start forwarding me your "might as well" lists. as in "if you are knocking off people anyway, you -might as well- take out my old highschool physics teacher" i'm joking, of course. i don't need the us marshalls checking out my underwear drawer again.

I need a name, address, and a short description, Nate.

i'm debating between gore and nader. gore stands a chance of winning, but i believe in nader and want a third major party. democrat's too conservative for me.

Nate, I'll be happy to unsling my rifle for you anytime.

Voting for the person who has the best chance of winning is like rooting for the sports team that's doing the best. I don't think it's a good idea. I will admit, I would vote for Gore if Nader wasn't in the race. But poo on him. I'm voting Nader. I wish Ventura would run, if only for all the screaming fits it would give the republicans and democrats. Actually, I'm for ANYTHING that gives the republicans and democrats the screaming fits.

Yes, indeed, so am I. I like screaming fits by major parties.

Please don't wish Jesse Ventura on the people of the United States. As a Minnesotan, I know what he is capable of. Governing is not one of those things. Like Jack Kennedy, he has had the foresight to appoint a very credible cabinet to help keep the facade alive, but in reality, just like Kennedy, Ventura is a fairly large idiot. But unlike Kennedy, Ventura is unable or unwilling to stay behind these people as they chart the course for our government. I was working as a newspaper reporter during his election, and I had the chance to chat one on one with the man on a couple of occasions. He is more intelligent than your average wrestler, but he is no Einstein. I will guarantee right now that IF Jesse Ventura tries to seek re-election as governor, the people of Minnesota will vote to toss him out. Jesse knows this, so look for him to bow out of the politcal arena in 2002.

I'm gonna cast my vote in the most logical direction..................up Nate's ass.

YEAH! More Ass sex for Nate!

That's a good plan, Czarina. I like it.

Any object up Nate's ass is... How shall I say it? Unsafe at any speed, yeah.

BUSH’S PLANS IF ELECTED: Here are some of Bush’s plans if he is elected president: First domestic legislation: Bush would spotlight an education package highlighting Nate's ass. Defense: The new president would seek to build a robust Nate's Ass defense system and would spend $1 billion a year over five years for a military pay raise, giving the average service member more of Nate's Ass in the first year. Education: Bush would seek to budget $5 billion more for literacy and $8 billion more for college scholarships and Nate's ass in five years. He would reward or penalize states according to students’ performance and expand Nate's Ass. Private-school vouchers would be available for poor children in Nate's ass that fail to meet standards for three years. Bush would also let families save $5,000 per year per student tax-free for education expenses at all ages, and he would try to create more charter schools. Energy/environment: The new administration would increase domestic exploration for oil and natural gas, including in part of Nate's ass. It would increase reliance on natural gas and would halve capital-gains taxes when landowners sell property for conservation. Gun control: Bush would sign a bill to require that child-safety locks be sold with Nate's Ass.

I think it would help the cause if we could see Nate's ass on some billboards.Exposure.Yes,thats the key,more exposure of Nate's ass.

I wish I wish I had a Semillama for my very own.

Gore the 12.5 million would do nothing for Nadar next time around, how much more visability has Buchannon had with his 12.5 million conmgressional funding? nada I think Nadar would not be able to accomplish a damn thing with little or no congressional support. Partisianship between ass and elephant would unify, they would chew him up and spit him out in 4 years...the Greens would have a bitch of a time getting another office...american distain because of gridlock would make the public bitter towards greens. i think Greens need to take over congress, shot for the lower and middle rungs before shooting for the top. even though i agree with Nadar, on his policies, more than others, i cannot offer my vote to him. don't bother me about the bullshit that a vote for nadar is not a vote for bush etc etc....the reality of it is this....a vote for Nadar IS a vote for Bush.....Im more afraid of Gore...than Bush, and Gore has a chance to loose CA. you can't preach to me the ethics of voting when we don't have a level playing field to begin with.

I can be rented. contact me for further details.

Do you charge by the inch? Do you give frequent flyer points? Are there any discounts available for students or pensioners? Can you get any bonus Semillama if you have stamps? Is there a customer satisfaction guarantee? What colours do you come in? If you don't fit, can I get a full refund?

Will you accept competitors coupons?

i just think it is wrong for a democratic country to limit who can be in the debates for the person who will run the country. but then again, all this will be over in a few days, and all the annoying ads will be gone.

well now purple, we could'nt possibly have every crackpot up there now could we. there need to be standards, however the problems lies in the fact the debate committees are comprised by dems and repubs and sponsored by the likes of Anheuser Busch. Furthermore there is inconsistancy between the states about the #s a 3rd needs to get on the ballot and what they need to be included in the debate.

oh and also, since i was so whipped before with the "we are NOT a democratic country (marge im lookin at you hon)" argument, could someone please dive in help pruplre out....

a vote for nader is indeed a vote for bush. I voted for nader last time. I went to the rallies. I gave lectures to strangers. I put the bumper sticker on my car. I posted a lawn sign. nader nader nader. but it wasn't like the whole fucking thing was at stake. it wasn't like my vote was going to help put a texas conservative christian in the white house. I live in the northwest. and I can't believe this place is up for grabs. oregon went for mike fucking dukakis in 1988. and this time around it's a tossup? what the fuck? apparently all my old portland nader buddies are still at it. I wouldn't be surprised if nader did get 5% in oregon. maybe washington too. for what? how much are federal matching funds going to help a guy who refuses to accept big donations (at least he did last election; I haven't been listening to the speeches this time)? it's not like he can win in 2004, either. god, it fucking terrifies me that us lefties are going to mostly follow our fucking consciences only to help elect a man who is going to appoint fucking conservatives to zillions of judicial posts around the country. we are going to help erode what's left of our civil liberties. just so for the next four years we can go around in our fuel-efficient overpriced little japanese cars with the nader stickers on the bumper and laugh as the courts let the country become more of a police state and fill the prisons with convicts of victimless crimes and say, "hey, I voted for nader," when it will really be our fault, the fault of the left, because we let ourselves believe the republican-financed green ads that said there is no difference between gore and bush when, come on, gore will at least listen to arguments that we should try to save the salmon, he would consider letting the snake river flow, and for christ's sake it's clear he isn't a fucking moron like george bush is. I know the nader supporters are not stupid, I know they know that george bush will be making judicial appointments that last FOR LIFE. it's not just four years. electing him is going to have repercussions that may last our fucking lifetimes. but, anyway, whatever.

Cyst,sweetcheeks,you said it like it is.I'm glad to see you.

Yeah, well put. Gore's got my vote, that's for damn sure. I'm terrified at the thought of that cretin running our country. Oh, lord.

patrick- NADER. with an e. nadar was the crazy photographer from dali's era.

You're right Cyst. I thought long and hard about what the whole point of the Nader candidacy was and came to the conclusion that the Greens don't really need my vote for president as much as they need it for the vote for board of Regents for MSU and Wayne State. You have to start small to get political power in this country. I seriously think that the Greens need to examine closely the Christian Coalition in this country, look at their tactics and what they do, and emulate them. Go for the local power bases, like school boards. Establish a presence in the local community and build. Hell, even Gov. Ventura was a mayor before he was a governor. So, I checked Gore on my absentee ballot, reluctantly, but sometimes the right decisions are the hardest to make. I also voted democratic for the Senate, because Spencer Abraham is fucking evil. I voted third party most of the other races though, which meant I voted Natural Law and even Libertarian a couple times. The funny thing I did this year was I noticed that the prosecuting attorney and the sheriff in my home town are both running unopposed. I personally think both are fascist pricks, but I couldn't bring my self to leave a spot blank, so I wrote in "Ivan Stang" for PA and "Mavis Fenderson" for Sheriff.

Oh, and in answer to some consumer questions: Do you charge by the inch? I charge by the kilowatt. Do you give frequent flyer points? If by "flyer" you have some sort of sexual innuendo in mind, yes. Are there any discounts available for students or pensioners? yes. Can you get any bonus Semillama if you have stamps? No, but you can if you collect enough beer bottle caps. Is there a customer satisfaction guarantee? Damn Straight. What colours do you come in? Usually a milky white. If you don't fit, can I get a full refund? One size fits all. Will you accept competitors coupons? Fer shure.

I completely agree with cyst. And yet, I'm probably going to vote for Nader anyway...simply because I'm in Virginia. Virginia has voted Republican since the early 60's. I'd like to believe this year would be different...but I look around and I know better. Because of this, I figure plugging for Green Party finding can't hurt. I want to make my vote useful. Gore won't get Virginia. That's clear even if Nader wasn't fucking with the whole election. Shit. I need to find my reg card. I have no idea where I put it....

I am really pissed off. Bush is a drunk driver, and people are going to ignore it because he's a "nice guy." Right after Clinton was elected in 92 I started seeing "Impeach Clinton" bumper stickers. If Bush gets elected I hope the next four years become impeachment payback. I'm going to personally have "Impeach the idiot drunk driver" bumper stickers made. This is so fucked. If Bush "trusts the people" so much, why did he lie to a Dallas Morning News reporter about being arrested for drunk driving? What else has he lied about? What else will he lie about? Politicians are liars and hypocrites. People who think otherwise are idiots.

when did he lie to a dallas reporter about drunk driving? from what I heard on npr this morning, it sounded like he had always hedged that question. I have no problem that he drove drunk when he was 30 but hasn't had a drink in 14 years. I drove drunk last spring. I've decided to be good now, though. and, yeah, I think those in heavily republican states (most all of them, it seems) should definitely vote green. since I'm in a tossup state, I'm going to split my ticket and vote for the local green congressional candidate. my pal j even has my permission to vote for bush. she's misguided, of course, but her arizona presidential vote don't count for shit. but please, friends, isn't it bad enough that we'll likely be stuck with a double-republican congress? do we really need conservatives filling all three branches of the federal government? thank you, and remember to vote for that bloated boring pedantic prig al gore on tuesday.

Did you hear what utne Bush will have at his inauguration? "Nicotine, Valium, Vicodin, Marijuana, Extacy and Alcohol! Nicotine, Valium, Vicodin, Marijuana, Extacy and Alcohol! Nicotine, Valium, Vicodin, Marijuana, Extacy and Alcohol! C-c-c-c-Cocaine!!!!"

tune, sorry, my fingers must be typing under the influence.

I don't care about Bush's one DWI many years ago (although I was surprised that Cheney had 2 in the '60s.) If he was smart (which he's not) he would've aired it the minute he declared his candidacy. (Hell, Ted Kennedy's lived through and bought his way out of many DWI's. His passengers weren't always so lucky though.) Anywho, what I'm more interested in is that rumor started by Larry Flynt that Bush got an abortion for an ex-girlfriend. That would really be rich. Check this out: http://www.il-democrats.org/LaSalle/bushbaby.htm

Bush said he was not arrested after 1968. Bush was arrested at least one time in 1976 for drunk driving.

Of course, no one will give a shit.

In Maine?

In Maine what? This is rich, too.

That's excellent. He was arrested in Maine. Cops there are satanic. Not that I think he deserves to be elected or anything, but Maine cops are meaner than shit.

if he likes the death penalty so much, let's have him framed and put on the row. stupid-ass bush. so what if he was ~slightly~ cute in his "youth". he's probably just a retarded clone of his dad. probably hates broccoli.

Oh,and Gore doesn't lie???

Bush was arrested after drinking with an Aussie in 1976...that doesn't count.

Damn Aussies, corrupting our young and impressionable youth. I'm about to drive over to Mass. to see a movie--Bjork, "Dancer in the Dark." YAY!

Sure Gore lies. Bush says, "Gore lies. Gore bad." Then Bush lies, and he says, "Oh, I didn't want my daughters to know what I did." That makes it ok, I guess. Of course politicians lie. But we just got done with an impeachment (over a lie about sex) and daily accusations about Gore's lies (many, but not all, of which are lies themselves) all put forth by the republicans. Now their man lies, and all they have are excuses and bullshit, all in classic Clinton fashion I might add. And they expect the American public to swallow it. And they will. For the most part, people are idiots. They have their idiology and no amount of evidence will sway them from it. They have their safe little dogmas and whenever anything happens that could possibly enlighten them, they hide their heads, cover their ears, and repeat those dogmas at the top of their voices. "Government Bad!" "Corporations Bad!" "Animals Need Love!" "Abortions Bad!" The proof is this: Bush is running on the stupidity platform: I ain't that sharp, but I can find gather people around me who can manipulate... uhh... advise me. And, the people love that. They identify with that. Because they're idiots themselves. They deserve the future they'll get.

yeah, did anyone hear what happened when the stockbroker called up j?

NPR weekend edition had a thing on Bush's final stumping for the election. Yesterday at a highly choreographed rally (not sure where) they said a lone protester held up a poster that said, "Bush go home. Don't drive." Excellent.

The stockbroker didn't call back the next day,I think he could tell I was just mortified that he called me in the first place.What ever made me do that? I'm just a sick and twisted woman.

right agatha.. i actually saw an exhibit here at the getty a Nadar/Warhol exhibit....i never saw the similarities the show was supposed to be examining....

oh and antigone.....that shit about Bush getting a dui.... lay off that... our leaders need not be our moral leaders...the guy fucked up., he admitted he...so what clinton fucked up and he finally admitted it... you are no better than the extreme right if you are going to judge a man by his drunk driving 30 years ago..... i have no problem with that what i have a problem with is letting this guy who ran several companies into the ground and has only been in gov't for 5 years, with one of the worst state records be promoted to president, and thats all you should be concerned with too

What we should be concerned with is that the media haven't gone full bore after Bush, who constantly accuses his opponent of lying and keeps talking about bringing integrety back to the White House, and that they have not hung teh truly appropriate label of Hypocrite on him. I thikn Moore makes some very good points about Bush probably being functionally illiterate, which we should be very concerned about. Gore writes books, Bush can't read. Both are in a dead heat? What does this say about our country?

We aren't well?

I've had the opportunity to work on the Gore campaign, both in the Iowa caucuses and in this general election. One of the central themes of the campaign has been to empower volunteers to make a difference, personally. If you are a Gore supporter...this is way too close! You can make a difference. Today and tomorrow. Right now. Email or call your friends who are undecided, or Nader fans. Ask for their vote for Al Gore. In the words of that great typing ditty,"Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country."

I was talking over this with my co-workers today, and I came to the realization that the biggest reason Gore finally managed to snag my vote was because of how grossly incompetent Bush is. If it was a competent republican running, like McCain or even Dole, I would've still voted Nader. I just hope Nader is serious about getting the Green party on it's feet on this country, and I hope he attracts enough sane folks to balance out the wackos in the party, which seems to be something the Reform party had trouble with. Fuck Perot, btw. ALso: Anyone know anything about the National Taxpayers Party (I think htat's what they are called)? They're on the ballot in Michigan, and have been before, but I still have yet to hear anything about who they are. From their name, they sound like freaks.

Here you are, love.

hey, j, I thought you said you were voting for bush. (although I think you've said before that you aren't well.) everyone should vote for gore instead of nader because gore has a shot at winning. everyone should vote for gore instead of bush for so many reasons, but my reason of the day is that bush and cheney are both former oil execs who want to open up the alaskan wilderness for drilling. that specific reason alone, which of course is indicative of their positions on a million other issues, is reason enough to vote for gore. also, bush is a stupid man who has never had to work for anything in his entire life. I know he seems like good ol' jus-folks, with his dui record and his party past and his blatant ignorance on foreign affairs and his seeming illiteracy, but, really, that's no reason to choose him for president over the ineffectual pedant. I mean, doesn't bush strike you as, well, a superficially nice but actually sinister guy who would joke about sending a woman to her execution (in an interview in the first issue of talk magazine he mocked what's-her-name about what she might have said to him if he had taken her call in which she wanted to plead for her life)? to me he seems like one of those guys who would really pick up on whatever catch-phrase the latest round of budweiser commercials try to foist on the populace, like I could see him going around saying, "whassup?" to everyone every day for weeks. he's both stupid and creepy, which I guess could be better than smart and creepy, but still. yeah, gore's a pawn of the corporate interests, but at least it seems his geeky little heart is in it. that he won't completely fuck things up for us. I don't know. I'm just scared.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/eb-feature/eber06.html ok, my very latest reason for not liking george bush jr. is simple resentment. he got into yale and I didn't. and he doesn't even understand subject-verb agreement.

I knew the "Constitutional Party" were a bunch of yaks, I can smell the insanity just boiling off of them. Bush probably thinks "grammar" is his dad's mom. The only good thing from a Bush presidency is taht I would be able to hone my hate to a razor sharp edge. It's been pretty dull lately.

Well, in a day we will now...the fate of our country hangs in the balance. Or...something. Anyway. I'm very nervous. I hope my faith in the American people to choose a good president is not about to be utterly crushed.

yeah, sem, it is always nice to have an easy target for general outrage. good point.

the best bet right now is bush in office: i agree with mike moore that the otherwise non-voters that nader is pulling to vote will cause us to have a democratic held congress. for that reason i think that bush will do us best, since less will be done than if we had dem power in both branches. we need to vote with the longterm in mind. push a viable third party into the federal running. show washington that the people are fed up with the crap they're giving us. we need real choices, and that begins with getting the green party a solid 5%. "everyone should vote for gore instead of nader because gore has a shot at winning. " if everyone who says something like this would just vote nader, he'd have a chance. it's time to stop being fucking pussies. it doesn't matter which puppet head takes the throne, neither gore nor bush hold the strings. it will all be the same until the People pull their heads out of their asses and make a fucking stand. my hope is that enough people will vote nader that the rest of the population will think "whoah, who's this fuck who got 5% of the vote? why wasn't he in the debates?" we'll have four years to get some serious debate reform going. some campaign finance reform. take action so that people with real minds above their shoulders can be beamed into the homes of every american. so that we can see all of the people make real choices. right now the idea of nader is a luxury enjoyed by so few. "the lessor of two evils" a fucking USA mantra. we need some of our other evils reaching the eyes and ears of of those who don't have the luxury of being close to coast or collage. some evils with real brains. sem, i'm disappointed. because of you i saw the importance of nader. you brought arguements to the table that should defeat your own currently held views. i'm hoping you change your mind before you vote.

why in hell do you have a nader/laduke sticker on your car if you're voting gore? that sucks, sem.

Silly boy. I'm voting Gore. I'm too afraid Bush is going to win. And if there's one bush I don't want to lick for the next four years, it's that one. *shudder* I am prepared to flee to Canada.

THIS IS NOT DEMOCRACY.

i'm totally fucking torn. i don't think i will reach a decision until i walk into the community center to vote. fahk.

Cyst,to answer your question yes I'm voting for Bush,you have to remember I'm no young one,I guess I'm just jaded,I'm at the point in my life where I see where my ideals got me and I don't want to keep fucking giving away everything I've worked and SAVED for to people who didn't.Both my parents were democrats and so was I,till after Carter(who I voted for)wonderful man,bad president.To me democrats want the goverment to take care of them,to think for them,socialist begging for big bro to take away more of their rights,yea look whose doing it.Now I vote for my purse,whoever isn't going to take more away from me,I'm hooking up with.I saw Gores plan for S.S and I'm not buying it.Y'all just give me 5 years till I can get me and my money to Costa Rica,and I don't care who you put in the white house.Really!

Cyst,to answer your question yes I'm voting for Bush,you have to remember I'm no young one,I guess I'm just jaded,I'm at the point in my life where I see where my ideals got me and I don't want to keep fucking giving away everything I've worked and SAVED for to people who didn't.Both my parents were democrats and so was I,till after Carter(who I voted for)wonderful man,bad president.To me democrats want the goverment to take care of them,to think for them,socialist begging for big bro to take away more of their rights,yea look whose doing it.Now I vote for my purse,whoever isn't going to take more away from me,I'm hooking up with.I saw Gores plan for S.S and I'm not buying it.Y'all just give me 5 years till I can get me and my money to Costa Rica,and I don't care who you put in the white house.Really!

sorry about that second post:)

I still have a Nader/LaDuke sticker on my car because I know that supporting a party doesn't begin or end at voting for them. I am registered to vote in a state where it's too close to call. I did vote green for half of the positions the party had candidates up for. I am glad to see you come around to Nader's side, Nate, but you know who cemented my decision to vote for Gore? Micheal Moore. He did such a great job of pointing out how horrifying the Shrub is that it canceled out in my mind the shot in the arm for the left his presidency would do. plus, according to the Greens and the rest of the "Third parties" (we need a new term), it doesn't matter which one is elected. Therefore it shouldn't effect in theory any popular movement to the third parties. What the Greens need to do, and they have my support on this, is to do what Nader has been saying and not stop spreading their platform in the media after today. The only way a party that doesn't take corporate money to gain a place in the attention spans of Americans is to constantly put itself in the media. I really hope we see a lot more of Nader oafter the election on political themed talk shows and what not. But back to voting for Gore over Nader: It came down to being what is the strongest vote against Bush. And it came down to environmental and human rights issues. Bush sucks tremendously on both, and I shouldn't have to remind anyone of his plans to open the ANWR to oil drilling and his policy of letting polluters police themselves. Plus his veto of hate crimes bills and his ties to the pro-life movement. Bush would ban abortion ina heartbeat if he had the power to do so, and the prospect of a Bush adminsitration packing the courts (not just the Supreme court) with judges who follow his ideology should give anyone pause. I'm not going to apologize for my vote. I voted my conscience, like a good citizen should. My hopes are with Nader, but my sense of reality is with the dead heat between an anti-environmentalist and a guy who seriously talks about phasing out internal combustion engines.

Gore couldn't give a shit about human rights. His environmentalism is the weak pussy environmentalism of the well fed college educated american bleeding heart capitalist. vote bush, hasten the apocalypse.

NAFTA & China are two clear indicators that Gore is not big on human rights. His voting record and his public stance do not match up on the environment. he did vote scalia and thomas. la di da. it's over.

Well, I cast my ballot for a big hunk of healthy manflesh today. I'm on edge about the ballot questions in Massachusetts. They have the potential of eviscerating the state budget, which, although we're running a surplus, will be feeling the strain soon enough with Big Dig cost overruns, and the recent settlement in a suit by the families of mentally retarted adults, suing the state to provide the care it has promised for years. Mental health providers are considering a similar suit, to force the state to fully fund mental health care, rather than reimbursing hospitals at a reduced rate, and forcing them to make up the deficits. I'm disappointed by the lack of second party candidates here, let alone third parties. Most of the races for the legislature, and many for congress are unopposed. Kennedy faces a fairly weak slate of opposition candidates. Jack E Robinson, Republican and softball star, is running a quixotic race for third place against Carla Howell, the Libertarian. Can anyone reccomend a good website for tracking the results? I imagine I'll be up late tonight, going from cable to computer and back again.

www.politicalinsider.com

Try this if you want to shatter any illusions you may have about any of the candidates (Nader included): http://www.realchange.org/

"everyone should vote for gore instead of nader because gore has a shot at winning." -- "if everyone who says something like this would just vote nader, he'd have a chance." I don't think a plurality of the american electorate would even want nader to win. and what's his running mate, laduke, all about? hasn't she traditionally run as the socialist candidate for president? I know this is a horrible thing to say, but I think the american system is going to fare better than the european system in the continuing globalization that is going to occur in the coming decades. I know this is another horrible thing to say, but I don't know if I want an american socialist as a figurehead. is there some way we can wrest control away from the big corporations without overthrowing the whole system? ok, maybe not. I don't know. I guess I'm fundamentally conservative. how fucking bizarre. "we need some of our other evils reaching the eyes and ears of of those who don't have the luxury of being close to coast or collage. some evils with real brains." I've never said anything about the lesser of two evils. I don't think al gore is an evil man. j, that's a great argument for wanting bush to win. it's completely valid. and honest. enjoy costa rica.

We could always switch to a parliamentary system of proportional representation. That would help third partys out a lot. It would be cool to dish out reprentation in the parliament by the proportion of votes each party got in the general election - for example, this time around, it would seem that we would have about 47% republicans, 47% democrats, 5% greens and 1% Reform in a governing body.

vote for my ass and i'll set you free!!!!!! ball of confusion thats what the world is today hey hey!! (insert funy bass riff)

"if you people actually vote that texan idiot into office, you'll become the laughingstocks of the world. you know that, right?" -most repeated sentiment during today's conference call with the london-based UK office. those smug little eurowankers were still giggling like mad when i hung up. can't wait until another thatcher gets shoved up their collective asses. anyway. i'm off to S.O.B.'s to see KRS-ONE herald the downfall of western civilization. i'll see you all in hell. xoxoxo

Write me in, VOTE for the FETIDBEAVER!!!

Seantor Clinton! Yee haw! (Gore has 193 electoral votes now too...)

*sigh* I really didn't want her to win. The alternative was horrid, but all the same...*glower* Yes, Gore is ahead..finally!

My eyes must have been glazed over. It's now 185 for Bush, 182 for Gore...

Yeah, I noticed that. They thought Gore took Minnesota and then decided he didn't.

Gore's ahead again with 192 electoral votes to 185 for Bush.

Fuck! CNN is giving me an ulcer. They just retracted their projection of Gore winning in Florida. It's Bush 212 to Gore 167. Ugh...

i share your ulcer antigone. damn bastards. i'm working on a paper at the computer lab, so i have to keep reloading abc.com. blah. they can't get it straight either. my roommate and i have begun packing. we're going to mexico or to haiti. i like haiti.

this was my first year voting. it was much more simplistic than i had thought it would be. for christ sake i voted with a thick colored pencil... like in second grade. wouldn't you think that they would have come up with a better idea?

217 now. But Boston.com gives New Mexico to Gore. And Wisconsin is looking like Gore. Damn West Virginia though!

My first vote was the 88 primary in New Hampshire, three weeks after my 18th birthday. I voted for Bruce Babbit. We were pretty lucky, being in New Hampshire; I got to meet Paul Simon's wife, see Dukakis and DuPont speak, and shook Gary Hart's hand.

msnbc has been giving me really good coverage. There are all these people in the house, and occaisonally I turn the opera down and say things like "Bush, 217, Gore, 185." I'm so afraid.

Almost a dead heat now. Gore 230, Bush 229...

Gore is going to lose. I've resigned myself. *sigh* Time to pack my bags.

It's like some woman newscaster said tonight,do you want the goverment to do more for you?Or less for you?I want big bro off my fucking ass,get out of my life and my bank account.The people that want big bro to do more for them are the suckers,yea,I will have to pay for bro to do that,and that will hurt me,but doesn't anyone see what happens?Look whose all into monitoring the internet,the chips are coming,and y'all will buy it.What's the difference between a Harvard asshole and a Yale one?Like I said if I thought for a minute that Nader had a chance,I'd have voted for him,but you people that did vote for him,just might have lost it for Gore,who would have probally been your second choice.And when I voted this afternoon,I got right in,and I saw 1 young kid voting,one of the volunteers said,"look we got a live one".How many of your friends vote?

All of them except the three on probation.

we're toast. i'm going to bed. fuckit.

nbc splashes live footage of the bush family kicking back and looking nonchalant and i keep waiting for the theme music to "the omen" to start playing. shit. bahia in 2001. trickle down economy in my pants. george carlin was right.

Commiserations mates. Fasten your seatbelts and get ready for a trip back to the 1950's.

My quality of life is a whole fucking better than it used to be,I have friends that say it was the Clinton Administration that did it,it's Greenspan,part of the Reagan administration.Hello!!

we're fucked. fuck you, florida.

wait a minute don't fuck Florida yet... if it comes down to one vote... one member of the Thomas family that left Tampa, that had they stayed there, coulda swung it... THEN

Oh,your just being cheeky!

Fuck. Stupid fucking Massachusetts voters. The tax cut passed handily. That means that the Big Dig cost overruns will be eating up a large piece of a shrinking pie. It means I probably get no raise next year. This year the governor, in all his genorosity approved a one percent raise for direct care workers, probably because we're already so fucking overpaid.

Fuck you, Florida! I hate you, you evil satanic turncoat state! First you say it's Gore, then Bush, then....argh! At least both my states went Gore. That's some small consolation.

At least, given the Florida factor, there's still hope that Bush will lose the election yet.

lemme get this straight nate....you voted for bush banking an a dem congress....??? with the thought of tying the two up while we push a 3rd through in 4 years? do i understand you right? thats like saying, yeah I'll take a shot in the liver as opposed to the head.....thats fucked up logic. stay off the bong in the polls....er wait...doesn't matter...cali went gore... and we still have a republican house...if cali would have gone red....i would have personally come up there and and...done something violent....like shake my fist at you everymorning when you go to work ...and throw rotting fruit at your house...

I would have thrown rotting fruit at the houses of all the people who voted for Nader, I think, since it came down to that in a lot of states. I will be very angry if Bush wins, and I hope Florida pulls us through. Because if it doesn't...we're going to be stuck with a Republican government for a very, very long time.

Please don't throw fruit at my house. I voted Nader, and Gore won my state. As for a long republican reign, I have little fear. The last time all three houses were controlled by the same party (1992) people quickly moved to correct the gridlock, and the Republican revolution of 1994 was the result. With the narrow margins in the two houses, we will have an ineffective government, but I don't think that the Republican message will get very far. And for all of this talk about Bush stacking the Supreme Court with Thomas and Scalia like justices should he win this thing, just remember that Al Gore voted FOR Scalia.

a co-worker, black man, from memphis, lives in south central, in his mid 50s said... "shit, i lived through segregation, marched with king in memphis, been hosed down by the white man...there ain't nothing about this bush prick that scares me....bring it on" isolde...bush would be out in 4...mark my words...it be the same syndrome his pop suffered. do you know anyone who voted for Bush Sr. back then? You would be hardpressed to find many who did...but someone did... lil Bush Jr. will loose to Hillary in 2004

i was so happy to wake up this morning and find out that there was still a morsel of hope.

Hillary is too much of a centrist, and as Nader and Gore just proved, there IS such a thing as too far to the center for a democrat. Jr. will lose, but I think it will take someone like Paul Wellstone or Dick Gebhart to unseat him. If the Dems don't bring a unifying candidate next time around, the progressive movement will really begin to do more than just fester on the underside of the party.

some specualte, Nadar could have gotten more by actually getting into the primaries, under the Dem ticket, still pushing his platform...but would have gotten more airtime, perhaps party money, and gone further. but then you have to wonder what the fuck is the point?

He did what was best for the system. As a dem., he could have gotten some more attention, but in the end of the day, he's not the nominee, and now he is obligated by the same positives offered under the umbrella of the party to not jump ship and run as an independent when he loses the endorsement. On the other hand, staking a claim to the new progressive movement will give America a chance to either grow it over the next for years, or abandon it as the reforemers apparently have done with their momentum.

just because gore voted to approve scalia's appointment does not mean that he would choose to appoint a scalia, know what I mean? did nate say he voted for bush? maybe he's in that top 1 percent or something. I totally understand those cats' support of him. if I were a millionaire or planned to become one soon, I might be more interested in continuing to build my wealth at the greatest possible rate than in funding the schools, protecting the wildnerness, saving wild salmon, preserving a woman's right to choose, ending the war on some drugs, retracting the right of the police to fuck with the citizenry, slowing the trend to fill prisons with convicts of victimless crimes, etc. not that I believe gore will succeed in doing all of those things, or even any of them, but at least he won't be as eager as bush must be to make the country more like texas. I think it's pretty hard to make a case for bush over gore. I don't even think that people who make less than a six-figure income are going to save much, if any, money with that idiot in charge.

Oh, I think Bush will be out in four too. I would be surprised if they nominated him again, actually. He's a monkey. I'm very interested to see that the state this all hinges on is governed by his brother. Heh, heh. Oh well. At any rate, my states went Gore too, for which I am grateful. A pretty good percentage went Nader, though, which was also a goodness. Personally, I don't believe Nader would have made a good president, and a hold by that. So many of my friends in California seem to worship the man, and I think that's no good. He's not perfect, and while we do need to diversify and get a third party in there, I think they need a better candidate for president. He is a great consumer advocate, though. We haven't heard from Oregon yet, either. Oh well.

I wrote in fetid beaver for washington state lieutenant governor even though I thought there would probably be some sort of residency problem if he won. but he did not win.

Unfortunately, I couldn't write in either Nate's ass or Fetid, because I did an absentee ballot and didn't think of it. *sigh*

actually, in addition to the destruction of the comfy little economy we got going on, the stock market probably will go in the toilet as well, and then all those rich fuckers who voted Bush can bend over and take it up the ass. florida: fuck you. in advance.

actually those overseas ballots are crucial. a lot of them are coming from israel. and well the lieberman connection is powerful. even though in 96 54% of the overseas absentee ballot was for dole, this time the lieberman/jew connection is strong, those 3k votes could decide this, IF they hang on until they are all counted, which by imposing the 5pm deadline for tom, i think the fix is on.

how many americans in israel have sent in ballots, and how many military personnel stationed all over the world will be weighing in? that news will not be good.

This comfy little economy is because of Greenspan.

i should specify, everything i said above was specifically about florida. with the deadline for tomorrow, like i said, the fix is in, the electorates COULD show up in Jan and in Congress and withhold their votes...that would be the only other option...and even that may not be viable. I understand electorates face severe penalties if they don't vote they way they are committed to vote.

I voted for Nader. I do not think he would make a good president. clinton/gore ruined the military. i think the bulk of overseas absentees will go to Bush. the electorate votes in december. all these newscasters talking about how exciting this election is, how divided the american populus is. bullshit. america isn't so divided. you'd get the same results if you flipped a coin eightymilliontimes.

Yup. You would. I think the results of the overseas vote are going to upset Gore a good deal. Military, people. I don't care about Israel. They'll go for Bush. Yes, indeed.

It's just too funny that after all the whoop-whoop-hoo-ha circus of an election campaign that's gone on for what seems like forever, it's all going to come down to a couple of thousand sun-baked retirees, trailer trash, and cuban refugees. Personally I think a series of nakey jello-wrestling matches would be a much more fun way to decide things.

i don't think the military is as locked in as you make it out. I think there was some backlash against Bush for citing our military is weak. I think many in the armed forces, specifically in the more specialized divisions disagreed with that assessment. but nate, when you compare this election to others, it does SEEM we are a very divided country, yes? "the leader of the free world" is being determined by such a small number, it's impressive.

Florida is really going to be the place to live now...you can bet that they'll be getting more than their share of the cookies over the next four years, whichever way the vote goes.

it might SEEM that way, but the sky SEEMS blue, too, eh? the process is flawed. fuck it all. i'm moving to france.

well in actuality, half the country is divided. on 50 or so percent of eligables came out, so whoever wins was only decided by 1/4 of our population. I predict Gore wins by under 100 votes. talk about pissed people

Ah but Nate if you go EEU, you won't be able to say "fuck the French" without get slapped. And all that rich food can't be good for their asses. Try Australia...the water is hot, the women are cold and the beer is warm. Or something along those lines.

Yeah Nate, living in France under Chirac should really cheer you up. You think things are bad here, wait til you take a gander at the French government. With all the coalitions and lovely folk like Jean-Marie Le Pen (who makes Pat Buchanan look like Mr. Rodgers) it's amazing anything ever gets done over there.

French fuckers eat snails too.

they have some of the best kept gardens in paris

french women have amazing, fantastic asses. it's a country of lean but curvy women who wear skin-tight clothing every day.

i can vouch for that

Aye, fine looking lasses with sexy accents and fantastic asses.

Cat, is gay marriage legal in Austrailia? I'm glad vouchers got defeated in my home state. They were a silyl idea anyway.

Nah, I've been there lots and I never noticed any nice female asses. Sideline story: The first time I went to Paris, I heard this kid speaking to his mother and I thought "God, that kid's only about four and he can speak french already". Duh.

Thank You, Thank You to my supporters. Open bar tonight.

what happens if the re-count results say Gore wins? can the GOP demand another re-count?

No. Unless, again, the margin is so small, in which case there would probably be another step taken. It might just be once that votes get recounted with such a small margin. One president won by .2%, after all...

ARg. if Gore wins, he wins. If Bush wins by less than 3000, (I think), he will have grounds to legally challenge, because of an error on some ballots in one of the florida counties. Dumb, huh? at least, that's what I hear. Now, everyone pause, and take a deep breath: IT DOESN'T MATTER. watching you monkeys prattle on, posting every 5 seconds with information I can get 5 billion other ways. Honestly. I thought better of you. "he's winning!" "he's losing!" "I can't watch!" bullshit. Either way, some bloated, over-educated under-educated Harvard and private school WASP is going to win. You all should have voted for Nader: he's also basically a bloated, over-educated under-educated Harvard and private school WASP, too, but at least he's funny. or in the words of Pat: "I voted for some guy who had "Nad" in his name. yeah." Look, you goofy, wonderful citizens of mostly-amerika: Your life will continue regardless. The revolution will grow, as slowly as ever. The best logic I heard for voting Bush: "it'll piss more people off, faster." funkdat. The President holds VERY LITTLE power over your life. Ignore him, and maybe he'll go away.

I have the perfect solution to this whole split down the middle crap: Steel Cage Death Match: Two men go in, one man leaves. At least the facist senator Abraham from Michigan was defeated, I hated that guy. If Bush ends up winning, comedians everywhere will be dancing in the streets.

I think that's an excellent idea, Sem. I personally think that the American People should be allowed to eat the loser. I think that would be an exellent addition to your plan. It's hot. I need to go to work.

Voters in St Louis city and county waited up top two hours to get inside a voting polling place only to be told their names weren't registered and then turned away to the Board of Elections where some stood for two hours again before being told the polls were closed, sorry, you been waiting for nothing, it's too late to vote. If this happens in conservative ol Missouri, how many other places have had the same problem ---ALL OF WHICH BY THE WAY IS BEING SUPPRESSED BY THE National & International MEDIA -- so we can pretend that the Florida recount (Anyboidy see Jay Leno last night?) can be taken seriously. The process if flawed. There were no winners Tuesday, especially the American public. End of PSA.

Yeah, but y'all still managed to elect a dead Democrat over a living Republican. Thank God there were no "The only good Democrat..." bumperstickers going around.

By the way, Gecko...you've been mentioning how Gore voted for Scalia. Out of curiousity, how many votes were cast against him? I'ts been my understanding that generally, any nominee for supreme court (or for most other posts, cabinet, ambassador, etc.) who makes it out of committee will get confirmed. It's the work done by the committee that really counts. Committees have held up appointments to various posts for months, if not years (witness one of Clinton's ambassadorial appointments, Hormel, wasn't it?). Usually, if there's a good chance an appointee won't be confirmed, they will withdraw before the vote goes to the full chamber. Remember Zoe Baird? And there were Nixon's infamous two supreme court appointees in the early 70s, who were found wanting. He ultimately withdrew their names in favor of Rhenquist, and I want to say, John Paul Stevens. Rhenquist is a rabid ideologue, but Stevens turned out to be a brilliant, thoughtful centrist.

JusMiceElf- The vote was 98-0 with two absences. I know full well that the system works in this way, I just dislike the hypocracy that has been running rampant in the Democratic party on this issue. If Scalia was the best man for the job at the time, Gore should not sully his reputation now by calling him a menace and an über conservative. If he had reservations about the man's view on abortion, he had a chance to be a maverick and vote against him. He didn't he was a sheep following the herd, and now, when it is political expedient to defame the justice for his views, Gore makes him out to be the living anti-christ. That is what bothers me. In my book, a person's record should speak for itself. Gore is trying to convince people that what he says now superceedes what he voted then. Don't get me wrong, I hate Bush, and I see Gore as the lesser of two evils, but I hate being this frustrated with the system.

hey tom, eat a dick you whiny bastard. *tips hat*

ah patrick, you beat me to it. daniel, the same happened in a lot of other states. also people showing up at polls with their voters registrations in hand but they weren't on the "list" or something and were turned away. i've heard so many stories from friends on the mainland of near-misses in being able to vote, usually for stupid bureaucratic reasons. the process does indeed suck. the design of elections needs a major overhaul, no doubt.

yeah i've wondered....Florida is under a microscrope ...and well imagine if we put every state under the same scrutiny...imagine the horror! eh i should follow angry sams lead (he's been a green member for a decade)...assumed Bush was going to win back in march...vote nadar, then sand bag the house...

Patrick, you rock. What irritates me a little bit about this Florida thing is that it is under such close examination. Every state throws away ballots--I know, I used to work for the polls. Every state has funked out ballots. It's just because it's close that people are paying attention. Hmph. Anyway. Yeah. I'm curious to see what happens, just like everyone else...

triple poo-poo on tom. i third the motion.

the electoral college should have been abolished long ago. the main argument against doing away with it seems to be that the candidates will ignore the little states in their campaigns. my first two responses are: 1) who cares? 2) lucky them! each person's presidential vote should carry equal weight. why should south dakota get almost half as many electoral votes as oregon, when oregon has four to five times as many residents? c'est fucked.

Hey cyst...to sidetrack...have you ever read The Burn by Russian author Vassily Aksyonov? a friend gave it to me for my birthday, she is from the Ukraine. She and I have had conversations in the past about Russian politics and subculture. She also knows i love jazz and apparently this book incorporates all of those aspects. Plus it's got a strangly hot cover..a skinny woman leaning against a wall with small pointy breasts... just wondering, given your time in the Ukraine...i can't wait to get into it... it was a also a very special gift as it was a book from her personal collection. there has only been one other person in my life who has given me a book from their personal collection, that was angry sam...Richard Brautigan's Tokyo Montana Express which he found for a $1.50 in some bookstore in San Fran 15 years ago. I think thats one of the best gifts you can give... besides a oral sex

speaking of oral sex. i saw my first porn movie on monday night. no, really, i swear. once back in '92 or '93 i saw about 10 minutes of one and got bored and left the room. anyway, i saw Disco Dolls in Hot Skin 3-D!! it was shown as part of the Hawaii International Film Festival. so yeah, imagine sitting in a huge, bucket-seats, popcorn and hotdogs ultra experiential movie theater in a room full of strangers watching a porn. starring John Holmes. i don't think it could be more socially inappropriate if it tried. the energy in there was weird; people were nervous and giggly. the audience was diverse. sitting in the row behind me was an elderly local japanese couple. the guy next to me was a local haole. the girl in front of me was a waitress i recognized from Irifune. one girl had hot pink hair. mostly everyone was about 22-25 years old and up. a lot of people in their 60s. the movie was very campy, Rocky Horror style, but also very, very graphic. oh my god. parts right up in your face. huge penises and vaginas and boobs and asses, 3D vibrating dildos and cum shots galore. one orgy scene, one scene just with 3 women. one anal sex scene, one or two missionary position scenes, the rest was blow jobs. lots and lots of blow jobs. this is probably a very inaccurate count because i fell asleep 3 times during the movie. the 3D technology was really weak, but then again, porns aren't exactly known for high production value. the best part of the movie was the music. it was filmed in 1977 and it had the total classic boom chicka wah wah 70's disco porn music going almost the entire time. the troublesome part of the movie was that it was really funny all the way through, until the end when Holmes (Harry Balls) gets his weiner decapitated and then kills the dominatrix. i didn't find that funny at all, it was kinda weird and sordid. i think the guy sitting next to became noticeably uncomfortable about 2/3 of the way through the movie. he was sitting funny in his seat and leaning way away from me. it was overall a very peculiar experience. the best part was, of course, wearing the 3D glasses.

It was part of an international film festival? I'm moving to Hawaii. I remember going to see Rocky once and the film was messed up so they entertained us with porn for a while. It was great fun. Porn is really best watched with a group of friends, so you can make fun of it. The last one I watched was "The Little French Maid," with about thirty people. It was great fun.

right....."FILM FESTIVAL" is that what they call em over there.

http://www.hiff.org don't be that way. tuesday i saw L'Ennui.

The electoral college would function better if it were proportional instead of all or nothing. So would a lot of porno movies, for that matter. See? You can find a connection between ANYTHING if you really try. I just had another idea on how to settle this. Set up a circular revolving bed, ring it with cameras, and have the candidates 69. Whoever comes first is the winner.

Eeww

um sem....have any other weird thoughts lately pal?

That plan needs some work,Sem.

I wouldn't think you'd want the quickest ejectulator as Pres. After all, the bloke with his finger on the big red button shouldn't be too trigger happy.

proportional distribution of electoral college votes would be slightly better (maine and nebraska do this), but one of the basic flaws of the system is that states get votes for the number of senate seats they hold as well as house seats. so south dakota, which has 733,000 residents, gets three votes. california, which has, what, 32 million residents, gets 54 votes. so south dakota gets one electoral vote for every 244,000 residents. and california gets one electoral vote for every 593,000 residents. a south dakota vote shouldn't be worth more than two california votes. a washington vote, maybe, but south dakota? trust me, those folks are not more equal than others.

I haven't read that book, patrick. and when I was in ukraine, I never saw any walls with small, pointy breasts. if I used emoticons, I'd add a smiley here.

I know the is an unlikely scenario, but I wonder what florida's provisions are for general elections in which there is a tie.

The differance is pretty small right now...

Tie goes to the runner....

http://madison.hss.cmu.edu/

fuck that ballot shit. i saw a picture of the ballot. it's not that confusing. hell, it's not confusing at all. there are FUCKING ARROWS POINTING CLEARLY TO WHERE YOU PUNCH. if you're too stupid to figure out how to vote, you don't deserve to vote.

and btw: because the treehugging bitchass envirofreaks keep good, clean nuclear power from our grids, making the predominant source of electricity coal-burn generated, which releases tons and tons of polution into the upper atmosphere, which the treehugging bitchass envirofreaks feel lead to global warming, in a few short decades florida will not be a part of the union. it will be underwater.

good idea, sem. but cat's right and anyway, if you switched it around so the first one to cum lost, they'd be motivated to put some real effort into it. i think gore would win. has anybody else noticed the slight hint of a lisp that gore has?

Amen, Nate. Goddamn, that ballot is silly. Follow the damn arrow. I dread to think of what those people do in bed.

heh. I meant to say something lame and intentionally immature here, because I don't understand what all that "stop whining" stuff was about... But I guess that topic is already dead and gone; and besides, as I was about to start being mean, I heard a voice come out of my stereo, saying "I wish that I could just say what I wanted to say, instead of hiding behind acidic comments." Spooky, I must say. So: having a presidency based on sexual prowess. Could lead to some much more interesting televised debates, yes? Moderator: Alright, then. As soon as we get the stage mopped, we'll continue. *waits* Governor Bush, could you please tell us about the last time your wife had more than one orgasm in a night? GWB: Certainly, Mr. Koppel. That's something I've been wanting to talk about for a while. We started in the missionary, because... AG: "the missionary?" See this is that DC political insider talk, slipping out again (smirks as the networks play a clip of Beavis saying "heh! he said "slipping out!"). Now, the truth of the matter is, we don't even know if Mr. Bush HAS a wife. what IS Mrs. Bush's name? Is he married? Isolde: Can you / could you / would you tell me the name and artist of the "army dreamer" song? I love it... arg. right. I still don't think that the elections matter. (30 seconds of research later) And his wife's name is Laura. (5 minutes of research later) And the song in question is by Kate Bush. spooky.

I can die happy. dave. thinks I'm right. Yeah me! I'm right. Hip hip hoorah. I'm so fucking right, I'm left. Yeah!

fuck you, cat.

there's this woman who works on the fifth floor of my building who likes to wear a black "pussy" baby-t with a variety of black leather skirts and 3-inch black leather bitch boots. sometimes the t-shirt says "boys lie". sometimes it just says "bitch". today it was "pussy" with the short leather skirt, patterned stockings, and charcoal-heather wool trench coat. we got on the elevator together and had a staring contest until floor five came up and ms. bitch got off. she's got this bizarre twitch in her left eye. weird chick. anyway, reading those last two posts reminded me of her. but now that i think about it, real cats don't bark.

fuck you, swine.

ooh, dave. hiss and scratch, baby. who wants to take a ride on the marrakesh express?

shit. this is perhaps the one place in this fucking world where i can say shit without worrying about getting fired or having to go to visit a counselor. do you really want me (us) to include emoticons so that you simpletons can figure out whether i'm (we're) being mean instead of, well, not being mean. are all of you from florida? can you not tell what box to check? why do you care what dave. thinks? jeez. i don't wanna go to marrakesh. i'd rather go somewhere i could fucking talk to people. how dare the rest of the world treat english as a second language! you go ahead. have a blast.

You're so cute when you pout, dave. You treat English as a second language with your "Mom"'s and your refusal to use the letter "u". And I'm not even going to get into crap like "you go gurl". ---- Swine, I don't wear t-shirts that say "pussy" or "boys lie" or "bitch". I do wear leather skirts sometimes. I don't bark. I've never been to Marrakesh, express or otherwise. I don't work near you. ---- I'm still excited that I'm right and none of you bitches can take that away. I just had roast beef for dinner and I'm feeling very content.

shit. i didn't say you reminded me of her. i said the last two posts reminded me of her. that girl would probably chew you up, spit you out, and leave your mewling roo-humpin' ass thoroughly dusted. dave- you're losing it. it's head-shrinka time. i stand by the marrakesh suggestion. they deliver morocco in little plastic baggies these days, y'know.

nate, you support the electoral college? or better yet, you like the idea of a picket fence the framers set up, to keep the people from directly having a say? this "if you are too stupid to ficgure it our you should vote" crap is a load...of ...well...crap. I was at the DMV the other day, i saw the clerks there have to say repeatedly, and even lead by hand some of the old folks there who were to fucking senile to find their way down the dotted path to the testing room. Shoudl they not be allowed to get an ID or a license? Well, some may say no becuase they pose a safety threat to others, i tend to agree, but if they are to stupid to figure out the rigamorale of the DMV...should they not even be considered? my point being, the old don't always see things as a young college-educated whippersnapper such as yourself see things. Saying if you are too stupid to figure it out and you should be denied access, is not only fucked up...but akin to the Bush philosophy. You know they kill the dumb down there...in Texas...commit a serious enough crime, whether you are in your right mind or not, have a low enough IQ, they deem you unworthy...... enough people have come forward in Florida, the day of and the day after the election, many people realized their mistake in the booth and immediately following but were not allowed to tear up the old ballot and re vote... in short, who the fuck are you to qualify who should vote and who shouldn't? The way i see it, if you are born, and able to fucntion remotely like a human being, as a law abiding member of this society, you should be able to vote.. god damn, sometimes you borderline facist man...

i don't have an it to lose.

hey, uh, dave? FUCK YOU. pouty bitch.

i wasn't going to say anything....you understand that doublespeak?

God damn freaks. Listen up, I Fetidbeaver will be your new master and Lord.

i know, i've been lamer than usual lately. if it's any consolation, i annoy myself, too. how do you spell a good, hearty farting sound? thpppppt and pbbbbbt don't quite get the point across.

This last election makes us looks like fools to the rest of the world.Heres my farting sound Dave,ppppffffuuuuuttttt.

unilaterally supporting Israel makes us look even dumber....it's our winner take all system...THATS the problem

your farts have vowels, j? that's talent.

Todya's fun fact: Should the battle over votes roll past Jan. 20, the rules of succession would come into play. Since there would be no vice president, the Speaker of the House would be next. Given that Hastert would have to give up the speakership for the interim presidency, it is unlikely that he accepts, so we roll down to the President Pro Tempore of the Senate. Can you all say Hello President Strom Thurmond? At 98 years old, he is sure to get perscription drug and social security programs to the top of the legislative agenda......

GOD! DAMMIT! Listen carefully and chant: Fetidbeaver is my master and Lord. I will not question his authority.

Thanks Dave,but can't really take credit for the talent,it's the anti-biotics,they tear the ass out om me.I usually just go ppppfffftttt. Fetid,send me nude pictures of you,I'll decide if I'll worship you or not,don't forget to smile:)

it's when they go ahhhhhhhhh that you should be worried.

ummm *starting to squirm* how bout that crazy GW Bush.... *nervous laugh*

they gave that ballot to a 5 year old and an 80 year old legally blind woman. they both figured it out fine. the world is laughing at us. patrick, i don't believe the stupid should get special treatment. i know that when your heart bleeds, it pours, but in human society the naive and ignorant are eaten. sure, we could kowtow to the lowest common demoninator and spend our resources lifting them up to the level of the rest. and as time passes, we'll have to spend less and less resources because the level of the rest will drop and drop. which is good, because as the ability of the US to compete in the world drops, we'll have fewer and fewer resources. and then, when we're all happy in our "EQUAL" utopia, someone will come up and eat us. and then you'll see real facism. in this nation where we have 19,000 people in one county too stupid to realize that if you punch two names for president your vote won't be counted, you want every voice to count equally. i think we should have an "issues exam" with each ballot. if you don't get a passing grade on your exam, your vote doesn't count.

why shouldn't that voice count equally. I try not to be elitist. My heart doesn't bleed...per se...i think the ballot is quite simple to figure out as well...BUT what i do have a problem with is the many people that realized almost right away they made a mistake, a typo, and were denied a new ballot. I know the Bush camp has all the stats, numbers and figures about that country...but in a winner take all system like ours...in a race this close, we need to be god damn sure, and if people were subject to "irregularities" then those issues need to be looked at. The orginal vote count had the spread at nearly 2k votes, and now its down to 300? Something is wrong...I don't make the assumption that everyone who screwed up their ballot is an idiot. By the SAME token, I also fear we may have opened a pandora's box...putting Florida under such scrutiny, makes me wonder how many "irregularities" we would find in other states... i don't deny your social darwinism point...but I also don't think someone should be denied an equal voice, due to technicalities... If there enough of a protest in this county, I don't see the harm in letting only the people who voted on Tuesday revote.

I think there should be an "asshole exam" with each ballot. That way Nate wouldn't get to vote.

There are no naked pictures of me. Sorry J, I can not be photographed. I have no body. I exist without being seen. But I do emit odor. If your eyes burn and stomach churns, you are in my presence, drop and pay homage.

Ah the joys of democracy. It would all be so much easier without the people. Patrick, a second election would destabilise the economy and the government even more. Not to mention cost a bloody fortune and be practically impossible to organise at short notice. While there may have been some stuff-ups, both parties approved those ballot papers. Now they're going to have to play by the rules and accept the umpires verdict. Or you could always try communism, Comrade.

and as far as being a laughing stock http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/11/10/newspaper.roundup/index.html and we weren't a laughing stock with Monica? This is nothing new. Reading that article, it's clear alot of those editorials are sensational and downright silly...funny, cute and witty sure...but being the strongest, wealthiest nation in the world...well being the brunt of jokes world over comes with the territory.... equating this problem with Vietnam, is just bad journalism all together, so who gives a rats ass what the world thinks... the most logical argument comes from the Spanish paper that criticizes our Electoral college system as out dated.

so, Antigone, you want to take away my freedom to be an asshole along with freedom to fuck your own shit up?

Ostracize the idiots! Re-introduce the guilliotine! Ship the infidels off to the continent of Australia![no offense Cat] The very fact that we have to "recount" is very distressing.Perhaps it is nescessary to recount every election since the beginings of our fine democracy.............to assure accuracy.............oh my,oh my..........this is a fine kettle of fish,just begining to simmer.

it's kowtowing to the lcd that makes this and other socialist leaning countries a fairly decent place to live. it's not perfect but at least the poor aren't living like animals in cardboard and tin lean-tos while the extremely wealthy enjoy protected, decadent lives like they do in so many underdeveloped nations. the socialist programs in our country raise the quality of life for everyone. right-wingers like to tell us that their policies help all of us who want to prosper but what they don't tell us is that not everyone can make it to the top. what disturbs me the most about the right wing is how comfortable they are with letting the vast majority of the population live as wage slaves and/or credit slaves. the majority of the population supports the wealthy and yet they don't feel the slightest obligation to make life any easier by paying taxes that support social and health services and generally maintain the infrastructure. no, they want tax cuts - to hell with the working class. it just ain't decent, i tell ya. i'm no mcreyn olds fan either. i would never try to limit what people earn, but i have no problem taxing the hell out of the wealthy. i think it's only fair those who get the most out of our system should put the most back into it.

That article is amusing. I read one in an Italian paper that had some silly photos...One was of a man holding up four Chicago newspapers with different headlines. This election is nuts.

that was one of my arguments against vouchers. i got into with my step dad when they were here over the weekend. he is fiscally conservative, maybe not so much morally and works for one of "them big drug companies" anyway, he didnt seem to understand that being a part of this society, whether he likes it or not, the snotty nosed, shoeless kid downtown needs his tax dollars for school. Now maybe his kid doesn't need the poor familys' tax dollars, nonetheless, as a part of this society, thats fact. but insitituing vouchers, you only serve to further divide the gap between the rich and the poor, by taking away from the kids down the road whom you choose to ignore. in a lot of instances, the rich tend to perpetuate the divide. he just didn't get it, he kept insisiting i liked maintaing the status quo (which is completely ironic for a republican to say, since when did they get so reform minded?) he didn't understand, that I advocate change...vouchers are just a bad idea, period.

"but at least the poor aren't living like animals in cardboard and tin lean-tos while the extremely wealthy enjoy protected, decadent lives" Dave, baby. Tell me this is sarcasm, huh? This is EXACTLY how our nation works. And fuck this "we're the laughing stock of the world!" Big fucking deal. *That's* whining. WE aren't the laughing stock of anything except Nate and Mark Thomas. Our Government, and The American Image are the laughing stock. If you can't disassociate yourself from these things, then... then I don't know... then I'm scared. heh. Hillary Clinton was on the radio today, talking about how we may need to get rid of the electoral college! awesome. wonderful.

baby? it could be a lot worse. you realize that, don't you? it certainly would be if those who control the money were totally unchecked like they are in other places around the world.

Tom,I like your mojo,but we are the countless here.Did I say I liked a Tom? Shoot me.

bang!

The working class,the people in the middle,not poor,not rich,are the ones that pay the taxes for everyone else,the rich have so many tax shelters and breaks that it's not even funny.When the goverment takes about a third of what you make a year,you should at least have some say in where it goes.There are kids going hungry and homeless right here in the U.S.A maybe instead of sending so much money overseas,we should start taking care of our own.I have no problem with people that really deserve goverment help,it's when you see 4 and 5 generations of welfare families that don't ever try to better themselves,or some crack mother that spends the money on drugs instead of feeding and clothing her kids,this isn't right either.

How true, J. Our government spends a lot of money helping people in other countries, which is fine. But I don't think it's ok that we have this huge homeless problem, and have so many kids living in misery because the government doesn't help them. It's no good. Some example we set, as a first world country.

JUST AN OBSERVATION: IT'S KINDA CREEPY BEING IN HERE ALL BY MYSELF. I FEEL LIKE I OUGHT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS SITUATION,AND DO SOMETHING! PERHAPS I'LL SEND OUT FOR REINFORCEMENTS.

Date: November 11, 2000 Subject (codename "Czarina") is beoming agitated. Doctor suggests a large glass of vodka and further observation.

The hands on technique is also effective,in calming Czarina.

The sorabji.com server seems to be down, so only people who've bookmarked the boards (they're on a different server thingy I think) can get in. Doesn't it make you feel like running around naked and doing bad things? Or is that just me?

Yea Cat!!!!! I knew I could count on the girls to get in! It does make me feel "special" to be in here all alone. It makes me want to conjure up some mischief!

Hells yeah! Yes, the server does appear to be down. I, for one, am confused.

We're spoiled with the usual quick attention, that's all. But I do hope Mark is OK. It's probably just that he's having a weekend away from the puter.

I guess nobody else uses bookmarks.

My bookmarks wouldn't work.But I had an old link that Mark had sent me,and I was able to access the board through it,then I just had to play around untill I got to the present.

I had to dig through my History list.

" it's when you see 4 and 5 generations of welfare families that don't ever try to better themselves" yeah... it truly is a bad thing that we have SO MANY people who do that. bullshit mrs. mitt. a lot of people are content on government assistance. *sarcasm bubbles* the four and five generations (which are few, it's a public assistance myth that i just read about in my policy class)that stay on public assistance usually have some big issues. and if you were in their shoes i would applaud you for doing so well.

I used my secret powers of persuasion and a short skirt and all was well. It's cold and wet here and I just woke up. I'm not ok with any of this. If I could be hungover, I would be. Instead I just feel drunk. I'm drinking some tea and watching the windows spin. Maybe I'll go back to sleep. I feel half comatose.

Hmmppphhh.you read about it in class,try looking at it in the real world.

hey, i'm back from kauai. so did they figure out who won yet?

Nope. It's going to drag on for quite a while, by all appearances.

No, but it's easy to see who lost.

R.A.W has some succint thoughts on all this: http://www.rawilson.com/main.html

Anybody see those mental giant voting officials from Palm Beach County on Sunday morning about 2:30 am trying to decide whether or not to manually recount the Palm Beach Country votes? Now that was priceless comedy. Wish I'd taped it.

When you get down to paper fibers,to see if the infirm bastards punched deep enough is a cheap laugh too,as in I'm so happy,can't stop crying,I'm laughing through my tears.

I think it was james baker I heard this morning talking about how the tallying machines are completely impartial. because they're machines, they should decide the election. um, hello, it's people who program the machines, innit? the machines are not acting on their own, impartial, omniscient accord. I think the florida ballot design was lousy but understandable. I wonder if it really was random chance or some impartial machine that listed george bush at the very top and left of the ballot page, where it would be almost impossible for anyone to mistake which punch hole went with that name.

hey! Bushy trusts the people, not big gub'ment...so he doesn't want the people hand counting, and he's takin it to Federal Court to stop the process...

It should have never had to come down to this in the first place.

actually it should if this doesn't polarize the need to do away with the winner take all/electoral college crap I don't know what does. Doing away with the electoral college would not only help encourage 3rd parties...it could also make the two major parties more distinct. As it is now, they appear so similar in politics, appealing to as many as possible. BECAUSE in our current system they need every vote possible. and if this election doesnt demonstrate that i don't know what would. If I were Bush, i'd conceed, because if he wins with no popular vote and questionable Florida votes, he's gonna hang for 4 years.

Popular vote or not,he actually won,And when the overseas ballots come in,I'm sure he will.

I just think it's great that someone said "lean-to". that's one of them smart-guy things.

The big secret they don't want you to know is, I FETIDBEAVER, have taken control.

Would you spank me?

i think bush should conceed. the presidency is now a boobyprize. whoever takes it will pretty much assure the presidency goes to the opposite party in four years. i'd like to see gore in there for four years, unable to do a thing with the congressional gridlock, and then get those warmongering dems out of office for a good stretch.

"lean-to" makes me think of "little house on the prairie" books. I love how dismissive bush supporters are of the popular vote. it's the only thing that's perfectly clear in this election -- that despite losing a significant number of votes to a third-party candidate, gore still managed to pull more votes than anyone else. an extra few hundred votes in a state governed by his little brother on a ballot whose design favored his candidacy (and that margin was much smaller in the recount than the first time around, hmmm...) -- that is such a sketchy basis for the assumption of the presidency that instead bush should just bow out and let the man whom the nation chose take over. and just what is going on with all the ballots that the machines threw out? if there are two candidates selected, then, yes, of course they should be thrown out (even though surely many of those gore-buchanan mixups were supposed to be for gore). but is that the whole story? if the voter did not make a complete perforation but tore no other selection on the ballot, then of course that should count.

"warmongering dems"? thats a little sensationalist dontcha think buddy?

We used to call "Little House on the Prairie" "Little Shack On The Road." I don't know why, but that used to crack us up as kids.

i bet if the entire country did a re-vote nader would win. if i had to do it over again, i'd write in dave.

at this point, it no longer matters what really happens. we're fuct... and somewhere Jefferson is dancing a jig wondering what took us so long... at least it wasn't the 'race war'.

http://slate.msn.com/code/kausfiles/kausfiles.asp?Show=11/11/2000&idMessage=6473 Whoops! The nations of the world should get together and thank us for all the free amusement we are providing nowadays.

they still owe us from the Lewinsky matter

Let's not forget about OJ or the Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill/That fucking Utah dickhead senator Orrin Hatch/Exorcist pubic hair question.

"warmongering dems"? thats a little sensationalist dontcha think buddy? --- i dunno.. who was in office when we became a apart of viet nam? korea? wwII? wwI? there is a strong possibility that after all the absentee ballots are in, California could push the national popular vote in Bush's favor.

Yay California. And californication. It would be nice to see the electoral college go. I think, personally, that it's not a great institution. I think also that Bush and Gore should mud wrestle for the presidency.

I'd rather see them in chainmail going at it with battle axes.

A little SCA action? That would be some funny stuff. Yes, indeed. I think, as mentioned above, that we should get to eat the victor, or dispose of him as we please. Perhaps they should star in a porno with chainmail and mudwrestling! That way we could make everyone happy.

SCA? Society for Creative Anachronism? Que es esto? Or is it that other wrestling league? If it's that wrestling shit, fuggehdaboudit. I'm talking about limb hacking, blood spurting, all out warfare. They can donate the carcass to the homeless, like they do with the bulls in Spain.

I'm not talking about wrestling, I'm talking about hitting people with sticks. Or swords. Once you have the training...It could be a big tournament. It would be quite exciting.

"i dunno.. who was in office when we became a apart of viet nam? korea? wwII? wwI?" who led the invasion of normandy? who bombed hanoi? invaded panama? cambodia? iraq? the republicans aren't exactly doves, you know.

i'm not here supporting republicans. i'm here saying it's all the same.

oh. I thought you said that "whoever takes it [the presidency] will pretty much assure the presidency goes to the opposite party in four years" and that you'd "like to see gore in there for four years, unable to do a thing with the congressional gridlock, and then get those warmongering dems out of office for a good stretch." meaning that you'd like the presidency to go to the opposite party, the republicans, in four years. to think that the next four years are going to be such a joke that america will go for a third party (and that that third party will be substantially better than the main two) next time is pretty naive. anyway, how many people have been killed as a direct result of u.s. military action in the last eight years? I mean, I know that "peacekeeping" strategy from the u.n. and clinton has been ineffectual and colossally wasteful, but exactly how bad has it been?

pretty fucking rotten if you happen to live in Yugoslavia or Iraq. Pretty safe deal if you're an active member of the military though.

I mean, under the clinton administration, how many u.s. soldiers were killed, and how many people did u.s. soldiers kill? and how do those numbers compare to those of other recent administrations?

like i said.. sensationalist... nate...i dunno where you get your politics from... you taken a hiatus from the bong pal?

imagine the reaction of the pentagon if nader really was elected president! hahahahah!!!! oh my god, they'd all need tranquilizers and Depends [tm].

"like to see gore in there for four years, unable to do a thing with the congressional gridlock, and then get those warmongering dems out of office for a good stretch." it's good for my wallet if bush wins. the stock market moves on whimsy, and if bush locks this in we should see several months of upswing based on this news. if bush does win he'll be there for four years and get nothing done due to the congressional gridlock. on the flip side, if gore wins this will also be good for the economy. nothing will get done. no major changes = good for nate's wallet. bush/gore, it's all the same. on the short term, however, there is good profit to be made in the next few months if bush pulls it off. it is my belief that the clinton administration has killed more civilians in military actions than any president since Truman (dem) with his bombing raids on Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. oh, and fyi, Roosevelt was a Dem. 1933-1945.

Roosevelt didn't get us into war unprovoked.... they uhhh...sorta bombed Hawaii what do you base this belief on? that Clinton has killed more civilians that is..... that statement appears to be utterly wrong...

roosevelt was commander in chief for normandy. clinton bombed the hell out of yugoslavia and maintained the bombing and sanctioning of iraq. he sent cruise missles into numerous countries over that osama bin laden fluke. he pulled the rug out from under the citizens of rowanda and indirectly caused a genocide. the list goes on. the dems are a tricky bunch. like a satanic amway or the church of scientology. at face value it looks great, socialist plans and wealth for everyone. but that's just on the surface. that's the facade of lies. a lot of people working hard for real issues hide the fact that the core is as rotten as any.

if bush wins, he better bring the fucking nasdaq up at least 25%.

dude, nearly 210,000 people were killed in Nagasaki and Hiroshima alone...i don't know the civilian/military break down of those numbers....but when you consider the 70 something day long campaign in Kosovo killed about 500 or so.....it's impossible i could ever buy your statement above, moreover, i would love to see your statistics.... and attributing, even loosely, the genocide in Rowanda...to him is insane....there were too many other factors involved to be able to make that conclusion...

i'm glad you're a capitalist, cyst. patrick, that's why i said "since". Truman's democratic warmongering was larger than clinton's. but "since" Truman, there has been none stiffer. trivia sidenote: more people were killed in dresden than under the nukes in japan.

hmmm right... i need some new sneaks

what are you going to get?

nothing fancy.....the pair i have now, they are $24 Target generic looking tennis shoes....they lasted me nearly 2 years...so im happy with more of the same. i shopped around hollywood blvd at some of these b-boy stores...and they had some nice looking vans...but they were upwards of $40+, more than i want to spend on a shoe i wear twice a week. so...i suspect i may head back over to kmart or target.... the brown sticky smoke is in.... it's a good week...

I am a horrible capitalist. when nader says, "end corporate control," I think, "why?" it's not so bad. I fucking love cheap goods and services.

i bought a pair of shoes the other month. i didn't realize it at the time, but they give me about a 2" lift. other people have been pointing it out. i think microsoft is proof that corporate control isn't static. we have a dorky college dropout who takes a company from shit to world domination in 30 years or so. not bad. it can be done. we're still good capitalists. or maybe i meant good consumers.

all I want is universal health care (maybe that's what I mean by "horrible capitalist"), a well-funded public school system, sound environmental policy, and loads of mass transit. I guess the corporations will never go for the first and third items on that list. maybe nader's right. but somehow I get the feeling that he wouldn't actually be able to do those things. pissing american corporations off and driving them to move to third-world countries doesn't seem like the best answer.

i believe that history will prove Clinton to be one of our better presidents.

i believe i will get more stoned this week than in previous...

I believe that sounds really good right about now...oh skoooooooteerrrrr?

i don't think i've come to a conclusion for myself on universal health care. it bothers me on some fundemental level, but i can't really put my finger on why. it reeks of socialism. socialism is bad. but on the other hand, i've never really had to think about it. by the time i had to think about my own health care, my premiums were being pulled from my paycheck automatically ($12 a month?), and I can see the doctor/dentist/optometrist of my choice for about $5 a visit. well funded public education is very important to me. i think it is the cornerstone of a strong democracy and to the benefit of corporations and citizens alike. i keep thinking about how i can start up some education activism. ballot measures or something. fix this up. mass transit is important, i'm sure, but doesn't directly affect my life. the environment issue is too confused to get anything done. too much myth. global warming. nuclear power. blah.

I don't know if mass transit "directly" affects your life, but I think it's hard to begrudge any tax dollars that go into this. when bus service is improved, when rail service is implemented, this makes public transit a more attractive option for everyone. and everyone who's on a bus isn't in their car, clogging up traffic for commuters like you, spewing exhaust into the air. also, it's important that people who can't afford cars, especially suburban teens, be able to travel from home to their shitty little low-end service jobs so drivers can get their drive-thru espresso and chicken sandwiches. even though I have a car and my company reimburses for parking, I'll continue to take the bus, making life easier for everyone else. but if there were fewer routes or fewer scheduled stops, then I'd probably just say screw it. if it's socialism, it's the type that certainly benefits capitalists.

i suppose mass transit could impact my life, it's just something else i don't think about because it would never be a viable option for me. but i agree with the points you've made.

*clasping hands* now lets join together for a moment of prayer shall we

Oh bless me Father for I have sinned. I've had lustful thoughts and coveted asses.

That'll be 7 Hail Marys.

now now..... come into the "rectory" and lets talk about said coveted asses.... dear me....

I just want to say that I allow nothing to stand in between me and a chicken sandwich. I was in the Twin Cities last weekend and agreed with Steve TGA that the place would be vastly improved by the addition of a light rail system. Mass transit rocks - the muse of Wesley Willis. I urge everyone to go check out the Onion today - particulary good this week.

Light rail for the Twin Cities would be good, but the proposed first route is so assenine, that the people are not too warm to the idea. The cities need to vastly improve the PR behind the effort if they are to get the backing of the people. I think it would be great, and I can see that it will sprawl from where the original line is set to be placed, but if people don't use the first route that is put in to play, it will be much harder to get funding for additional routes.

Yes, the Onion is. Isn't it always, though? I guess it kind of sucked last week. Nevermind.

The transit system in Phoenix and the east valley totally suck,yet I have to pay taxes for the ballpark out here after the voters voted against it.Now I have to pay for a fucking football stadium for the losers Phoenix Cardinals,bastards!

don't talk about mass transit woes.....we got the worst of em here they finally finished the downtown to hollywood subway...and it tunnels under the hollywood hills into the valley. quite a feat all that tunneling. the thing is, the earth here ain;t the best for tunneling...not only did the fucked up beaurocratic MTA go over budget, skimp on safety and corrupt contracters they failed to note certain spots of land that were vulnerable to sink. About 6 years ago, a portion of Wilshire Blvd sunk, in midday.... Finally after all the over spending...the county and city govt aggree that the mta can't go on with the other proposed projects due to their inbility to get the job done. THEN, when the MTA comes to do their budget, they see they are short, then they try to shortchange the drivers....to make up for THEIR mishandlings...ergo we had a monthlong strike.... We have a combo of subway and rail....Metrolink goes out as far as San Bernadino and Ventura....former Canadian GO trains.... the system can definitely work in LA, the wife and i have used both systems over the last 3 years, but we happen to work within a block from stations...not everyone in LA is so lucky... moreover, its not so much the system as it is the mentality...people in LA love their fuckign cars...they are status symbols moreso than anywhere else. Gross displays of wealth. With people scrambling to get a PO box in Beverly Hills and suburbanites running to their nearest MACK dealer for the next biggest "family car"....its hard to get people on the train. When i was in NYC, a few weeks ago, i remembered how romantic trains and subways can be. I love being on a train or subway where no one gives a rats ass what you are doing. Somebody needs to teach the Armenian women with big assed shopping bags, you let people OFF before you get on....

I just wish we had a rail system,you have to switch buses a million times to get anywhere here,plus in the summer it's just too miserable to wait for one.

goddamn i hate politics. i think that just about sums it up.

I just wish all the bullshit was over....yesterday.

Until I read this I was planning to vote for, I know most of you hate it, Bush. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.obscenity06apr06,0,567200.story Now I think I should vote Libertarian. At least they don't want to contol every part of our lives. The Republicans want to protect our morals and the Democrats want to protect us from everthing else.

Sigh...you conservatives think everyone hates you. Nah. We just think you're naive. Now you're waking up. Hopefully it's not too late...

yeah, not hate just sighing and head shaking in the end, the weight of your vote is on your shoulders

and i hadn't even checked the link you don't want to vote for him because of PORN!? i mean, i agree with that, but out of all the things to be outraged at....

î î î î hey, look. î î î î two, two, TWO dave.s for the price of one! you get the drunken, melodramatic, crazy dave. and the annoyingly didactic, pseudo-pedantic dave. what a treat!

my mistake. i did the math and it looks like that's less than one dave. must have transposed a numerator or something.

well, i just added up all the dave.s i could think of and it still doesn't equal one. rats.

"The Republicans want to protect our morals" HA! Thats absurd.

porn firebombs 3rd world villages! porn is the real weapon of mass destruction! "Ashcroft, a religious man who does not drink alcohol or caffeine, smoke, gamble or dance," ...and is therefore the person you'll TOTALLY want in charge. hot damn, y'all should be weeping that these self-righteous prudes are in authority. I know i want to. is there a word stronger than prude? That doesn't quite cut it.