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...about this. This technology has been under development for a long time, but this is the first time I've seen it used in such a blantantly public way. |
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If so, do you think if such a horrific thing happened the public would blast the gov't for not taking such measures. Hindsight is always 20/20...and I could just see family members of the dead from such an event suing the gov't for not doing enough to prevent terrorists from entering the stadium. Im not saying what they did here is right....what im saying is i don't know what i think. |
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I think it was a piss poor excuse to show off a technology that I am sure they have been using for a while now. |
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BTW Pilate, Cannery Row & Sweet Thursday -- maybe good choices for your son? |
But the "looking for criminals" application isn't what I'm worried about. With this kind of technology it would be a relatively simple matter to identify anyone who's face got into a camera shot. That information could be used to track people's movements wherever they go. This isn't paranoid fantasy. The superbowl showed that this technology is in production and is available for wide use. Once it's deployed in the name of tracking criminals, it's only a small ideological shift away from being used to track everybody. Just an example: while I was getting my masters in CS some friends in the school of applied cognition were working on a way of classifying faces. They devised a way of creating a set of face prototypes that could be combined to create any face shape. This has many applications. Faces can be tested for similarity in an almost intuitive fashion. (i.e. just wearing glasses or a hat wouldn't fool the identification process) Also a face description can be compressed to thousands of times smaller than the original image, making the transmission of an identified face through a network much cheaper. Anyway, this research was done six years ago at an underfunded podunk university. Just think of what has been developed by now... |
also, how does the gov protect the populus from terroist threats to public events like this? do you believe thats a reality? What interest does our gov't have in tracking everyone? |
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. " -Benji |
Like the new law that gives the feds the right to go through your home and copy your hard drive, take all the pictures of whatever they want, and not even have to tell you for 90 days. That is part of a Anti-Drug Dealer law. For public safety you know. |
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But there is a why, at least in the business world. The project I'm currently working on used to be geared towards location based advertising. i.e. If you were walking near a Gap and you'd expressed interest in their products (or your profile suggested you might show interest) you would be sent an ad through your cellular phone or wireless PDA. Finding the user's location was always a bitch, but we were waiting for global positioning systems to become cheap and common, integrated into cell phones and PDAs. If the project hadn't self destructed we were going to store all user related information in Switzerland to avoid it ever being subpoenaed. But, along this same line, a mall could set up the face recognition technology. When you made a purchase, your face is associated with your credit card. (This could be sold as a fraud protection measure.) But, you'd never be anonymous in that mall again. When you walked in the door, a little targeted speaker could say to you in a chipper voice, "Hi, Patrick! We've got a sale at the Gap today!" But, what it wouldn't say to you was, "Because of our deal with local law enforcement, the constable will be waiting for you there to arrest you for those unpaid traffic tickets! Have a nice day!" |
Do you guys have a similar system out in CA? |
five years ago these guys we were working with [they did gm advertising] kept talking about it. they talked about it being integrated into the car mapping systems. they were all hyped up about it, i thought it sounded scary and annoying. go ahead, spend your time watching and following me. you might learn something. |
So antigone, you have a problem with bank surveillance cameras? What about security measures in our courthouses? I don't think our gov't had any interest to track each and every one of us. I don't see being photographed for security purposes on public property to be as big a slash on civil liberties as some of you parnoid freaks are making it out to be. We already have personal information bought and sold for commercial purposes....taking an image of my face doesn't threaten me anymore than the fact that my creditors have my social security, mothers maiden name etc. They could have made the same argument when the technology of fingerprint tracking occured. |
Once they cross the line into your private space, the individual loses control. While it may make us safer, I think the cost of personal liberty is too high. |
A few years ago when I went to get my licence renewed, I lined up for an identity photo. Then they told me it hadn't worked out and I needed to have it taken again. Being naturally suspicious, I asked to see the pic for myself. It turned out some clerk had pocketed it for his own private collection of "babes". This guy also had my home address, thanks to my licence information. He'd been working at the RTA for a few weeks and had collected dozens of pics. Now while he was sacked, the damage was done and there was no way of undoing it. |
Bank surveillance cameras are private enterprise. They're protecting their assets and asses. Also, there's a difference between a company amassing databases on you, such as through those barcode cards you give the supermarket to scan for "discounts" or amazon.com compiling a profile on you and leaving cookies on your computer and suggesting new books when you surf in, and the government taking your picture at the superbowl, or the mall, or the laundromat. |
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damn it. i was thinking i shouldn't have planned my international conspiracy via email. all that networking for nothing. |
Well not just because of me, but because of the dozens of other incidences as well. And I don't feel a bit guilty. |
"Conspiracy, terror, terrorism, terrorist, kidnapping, bomb, bombing, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Palestine, plastic explosives, fun in the sun." |
care to elaborate? |
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It seems that a common net filtering company for schools and libraries is also collecting internet usage info and selling it. Who are their customers? At the moment, only two: an educational website and the DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE. |
Optical technique allows non-surgical biopsies FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, JUNE 27, 1997 Contact: Sarah Wright MIT News Office CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- MIT scientists, working in conjunction with researchers at Massachusetts General Hospital, have developed a non-invasive method of detecting early signs of cancer and heart attacks, Science magazine reported today. The new method is known as optical coherence tomography (OCT). OCT produces a clear picture of a cross-section of bodily tissue without requiring surgical biopsy. Using laser light, OCT can magnify tissue to allow visualization of individual cells without damaging the tissue. OCT is based on optical fiber technology, the same technology now used in telecommunications. An optical fiber is a string-like component which guides light waves, allowing a light beam to be controlled over long distances and around bends. ------------ you can use your fire to keep warm or to burn your neighbor's house down i was agreeing with you. i just wanted to sound dramatic and conspirative. |
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Come on, patrick, I'm not a paranoid freak. I just happen to know alot about what's possible because I'm well versed in the technology. At the moment the government doesn't need to have much of a reason to collect tracking data on everyone. It's easy. It's cheap. With my basic knowledge of the face recognition research and image manipulation I could, given about six months of dedicated work, create a rudimentary face tracking system all by myself! Just think of the systems a dedicated government agency could make employing highly skilled people in the field. But this incident is a watershed moment not because of the development of the technology. It's well developed already. What's happening now is social testing: Will society as a whole accept this kind of tracking? Will the average joe figure out the implications, and if he does will he react negatively? Fear is not always paranoia, patrick. Sometimes it's just good common sense. |
well antigone (sigh) what are ya gonna do? I just know if a terrorist attack occured the american public would scream "MORE SECURITY MORE SECURITY!!!" Im not threatened by this technology, the govenment has no use for me. NOW had they used the images taken from the superbowl and starting picking up petty criminals for minor felonies and misdemeanors.....i'd have a problem with that. But hey didn't. At least the article implied that. As far as Im concerned the gov't could track me at any moment and there is nothing stopping them...the thing is not to give them a reason to track me. |
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There, some wisdom from beyond. |
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i should be the one afraid of the men in black. perhaps...off all things...i accept that if the gov't wants to take my picture there is not much i can do to stop them. i most likely would support legislation to stop the gov't from taking such measures....to catch so called criminals. but my skepticism would probably lend itself to believe that no piece of legislation will stop the gov't from ultiamtely doing what it wants to do. They have demonstrated recently they intend to bluntly ignore the ABMT....on the basis that its "outdated" so if they wanna pass token laws and you wanna go protest ..go ahead, i'll support you, but don't expect anything to change. and on that note.. the puter is being turned off, Im turning on.....and going to get my wife and be a 16 year old again. may the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. |
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Heather, I AM a Man in Black. Yeah, in my dreams. And the DOD has a file ten miles high on guys like me, old alkies and druggies who now interface with the system with persistent offenders. It all came unraveled with Mike Rice of the IRS in 1990. I thought I was untouchable. I tell you, I live in the woods now, rather anonymously. But. They not only send me coupons for the type of hummus I purchase, but They know I wear v neck hanes of the 2xlong variety and stand nearly nekkid on my deck flipping Them off as They peer at me and intercept this very sentence from the towers nearby. We should be very worried. Twenty years ago I got burned. Ten years ago I got shot at. Told that story in another string. Only after I was told I couldn't work federal probation and parole cases (allegedy because They said I couldn't carry{concealed weapon} because I wouldn't, objected to it...) in the recent past, have I begun to worry that They know what I am eating. So I grow my own food now except for the ham and turkey. And don't use the debit card ever. Fuck them all. It makes good copy, but you never know the truth anymore. If They know This about me, think about what They know about important people. I am a Nobody. It is not out there. It is in here. Trust no one. Mulder was right. |
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But again, trust upon one's self is the only trust of all. |
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Of course, Im not saying go out and trust anyone, trust is precious and should not be given out like candy, but against the seemingly invincible forces (usually stemming from the federal government, for some reason...) a trusted friend can be an amazing asset, both for assurace that 'they' haven't completely taken over, and someone who's watching your back if things turn ugly... |
It doesn't really matter in any case. |