it seems like every time i go anywhere i end up sitting on something concrete and watching all the people go by and wondering what they do all day and why they are in such a hurry and if anybody loves them. i always lose track of the time and then i feel really fucking weird when i stand up. most of them i wont ever see again, or if i do, i wont recognize them and they wont recognize me. the same thing happens when i drive through towns at night and see houses with the lights on. damn its quiet in here. i think i will look out the window for a while. its 2 AM and listen to some more vlor thanks for the board

It's only 12:30 here. But damn... fek. any of you sorabjiites out there up for something more real-time? I feel chatty but gots nobody to chat to.

I'm here....

I'm here too.

I think we've been dissed, moonit...you enjoying that Summer weather?

yeah it rocks! its too hot to sleep though, and I kinda have a job interview tomorrow so i am nervous too.

That's a suck deal---I'd send you some cold if I could....we're iced in, here---

Missing my second night of work in a row, and my physical & mental health are okay with that----but my wallet is pissed....

really? Its been years since its snowed in Christchurch. I like winter better than summer. I like being inside with a fire and hot choccy, and something good on the telly...

Why are you missing it? My bank account looks incredibly sad right now. dammit. It's too hot to eat though, so thats got to help with the diet.

Woah. Howdy. It must be too cold to eat here. Or something. I'm never hungry these days. Not that I've had much money to do any good eating.

Just wolfed down a pot of pasta....still hungry. Why am I missing work....? Because there are five miles and many steep hills, all covered with ice, between me and work.

Hunger---The Vicious Circle.

Good enough reason. I wish I had such a good one. I had some of my roomie's leftover Turkey, some mashed potatoes, stuffing, and a slice of gravy. His parents are damn good cooks. I should have gone home with him instead of making Experimental Chicken. Once I got started, I had no trouble snarfing down mass quantities.

Hoo, doggies!

Well....I gotta laugh and die. Night, y'all.

my wallet is pissed too. its coldy and rainy and windy here. SOOOO unLA weather, but i like it. i got me leather on and my feet squeek on the walk of shame.

I miss LA weather. Kansas City sux. It can't make up it's mind. It snows, but only when I am not looking and not going anywhere. I just have to deal with the bitter ass biting cold. I miss any Cali weather. Then again, I miss people with brains, and those are definately hard to find here in Missouri. I am ready to take a trip to Redondo Beach and go to Old Tony's on the pier and drink Mai Tai's till I puke. I'll wear my strappy high heel sandals and click down the walk of shame.

Sometimes I miss watching the snow fall in NY. I liked to see it as it was falling and blanketing the ground but when a foot or two of snow was dumped on us over night, there was a whole shit load of shoveling and freezing to do in the morning. I really got sick of the cold. Been here in Florida now going on 4 years and I just love it. We bought this house last January and moved in the last weekend of February and I planted tons of flowers in the front yard and made tons of little flower gardens with bushes and shrubs and fountains to match the flowers. It has now been 9 months since I planted all that shit and it all is very much alive and growing by the day it seems. Nothing has died. I NY, I would plant all my shit outside in like the end of May and everything would be dead when the first frost came in like September. I would get so pissed that everything was dead so fast. I miss NY bagels and NY pizza and NY deli's but I've found some pretty good bagel shops, deli's, and pizza shops here though so thats a good thing.

NY is one giant crock. How can anyone miss the plastic people and insincere hucksters. Go live in Arizona, the air is clean, the people honest and god knows you can trust that the cops wont beat you up for kicks. East coast paranoia will kill you dude, go to Arizona where the world is still a nice place to live

arizona bites my dick.

Come to Arizona and say that,and I'll bite your dick.

i went to arizona. some pusswad cop gave me an inflated speeding ticket knowing damn well i wouldn't be able to fight it in court. bastard! that car wouldn't even go as fast as he said it was going!

Nate, dont take up Czarina's offer. She is well known to the Arizona PD for biting tourists dicks. Oh and Arizona cops use speed detectors which show your license plate,you must have been doing the illegal speed.

I've never been to AZ. I love NY but I just got real sick of the cold. I go back and forth from here in FL when it's real hot to NY where it's kinda cool but not HOT. New Yorkers are great people. plastic people and insincere hucksters are very unfair and inacurate statements. In all reality, you have bad people in all of our states but I try not to bash where people are from. Oh, I am not a dude. And if I had a dick, this is where I would whip it out and tell you to suck it.

Dani, thanks for the offer but i dont want AIDs. NY people are great? you ask one to help you if you have a problem..... In AZ people remember the wild west and neighbors are just that; neighbors. NY you will be lucky if you find and english speaker and thats just the spics and chicanos!

Not only are you an ignorant asshole, your a prejudice mother fucker which makes you shit on the bottom of my shoe. Loser.

Fine use of language. Another product of the fine NY education system. This is what happens when you design an education system to appeal to the lowest common denominator of intelligence found in the projects. Prejudice is reality. Are you saying there are no spanish speakers in the U.S.? Are you saying we have no ignorant diseased illegal immigrants taking welfare and our tax dollars? Are you saying there is no spic mafia? Are you saying that crooked politicians dont bend over to get the black vote in ghetto city areas? Are you saying we dont allow muslims to attack our institutions? Get real Dani.

I live in Arizona and I think your a bigot.

OH BOY!!!! tweedledee vs. tweedledumb get ma pokin stick and a bag a nuts!!!!!

Read my posting again and just answer the questions with a simple yes or no courtroom style. Then tell me if I am a bigot or just telling the unpalatable truth that we are afraid to face because of the twisted doctrine of political correctness?

As far as I can see the aliens that come over the border are usually undocumented,so that would rule out welfare.Ignorant? Why because they don't speak English? How good is your Spanish? Diseased? Maybe dehydrated after walking across the desert. They are hard workers who work for little money,much of the money they make they send back to their famalies,I don't see alot of zonies lineing up to pick lettace,so they aren't taking jobs.There are all kinds of mafias.Politicians are like that everywhere.How do we "allow" muslims to attack our institutions?

you keep saying "our" yet you are clearly dialing up from the UK? Are you an expat? Or just an idiotic Brit who thinks he/she knows what he/she is talking about in terms of American social/cultural/politcal landscape? "Are you saying we have no ignorant diseased illegal immigrants taking welfare and our tax dollars?" Who is "we"? We have legit citizens who fit this bill...whats your point? Illegal aliens or not, all are entitled due process under the law. otherwise J addressed your idiocy well enough.

Actually, I agree with most of what you said believe it or not. Except the part about the education system. I just simply think that was a stupid thing to say. However, the fact is that we have tons of immigrants here and tons of people who dont speak any or maybe a little English but I dont agree with calling them hateful and cruel names. Thats how riots get started and people end up hurt or dead. Violence really aint my thing so instead of calling a certain kind of person a horrible name, I'd rather say hello and be peaceful and pleasent. Makes my world alot happier. Thats the best courtroom talk I can give you. And I still think your a rude, cocky, know-it-all and if I didnt know any better, I'd ask if you were Patty's identical brother. No offence Patty, honest. I aint afraid of facing anything. I live for today and for what things are NOW and the most I can really do is pray for a better tomorrow. So instead of me questioning things that I probably wont ever get the honest answers to, I'll call it as I see it. Plain and simple. There's my outlook on life. fuck complications and questions and anger and hate. Fuck them all. Aint and fuck are great words and even the smartest of people use those words so fuck you, fuck face. You aint shit in my book.

Comparing patrick and Coogan is like apples and oranges. Coogan sounds like a true asshole. patrick only plays one on TV.

dani just doesn't like me because i like pokin her with my pokin stick. no "offence" taken dani. its established you can't offend me.

but thanks tiggy.....you make me all warm inside.

Poking me with your stick sounds good in one way and really nasty in another way. I dunno.

Listen up,CoogliPunk. I'll bite Nates dick anytime I've a mind to,and I don't want you scaring him off.I like fresh meat. What I don't like,is an annoying fetid carcass,that festers with self imposed hypocrisy. Perhaps you could post on the "Lets Bash All Of Those Less Fortunate Than Ourselves Board".

I'd just like to point out that Coog's stupid list had nothing to do with justifying his prejudice. Proving that some of these people fall into your prejudiced view does in no way imply that they all do. Now, if you said, for example: "Are you saying all immegrants aren't ignorant, diseased, and taking welfare and our tax dollars? Then you'd be just as stupid, but at least your question would have something to do with your alleged point.

I think Coog is just looking for some attention because he wasn't breastfed enough as a kid, and the sheep in England are playing hard to get or something. However, it always amuses me when Americans or Australians bitch or whine about immigrants. We're all from somewhere else in our young countries (apart from the 0.00004% with reasonably pure indigenous bloodlines). I don't care if you're fifth generation, you're still just a newbie in the big scheme of things.

I remember the years I worked as a hotel dishwasher....after awhile a lot of the more menial jobs like dishwashing and housekeeping were held by immigrants...most of them legal, some of them not....we had Mexicans, Puerto-Ricans, Brazilians, guys from Columbia, Peru, Portugal.... I remember countless conversations with my Dad & his wife where they were griping about "those goddamn lazy 'Ricans, taking American jobs..." And there was that going contradition, too----they were lazy and living on welfare, sucking up our tax dollars and yet at the same time they were fucking up our economy by taking jobs that should be going to hardworking "Americans"....so which is it? Personally, I was always glad to have 'em...I don't know how many "hard working Americans" came in, did shitty jobs, complained about how bad the work was and how it was beneath them and then left after a month or so with no notice....meanwhile there were a whole bunch of people who came in from these other countries and they stayed at their jobs, were dependable, got along with everybody, worked there a long time and had great attitudes about really shitty jobs and pay. Some of them---especially a few of the Brazilian guys---were some of the coolest folks I knew.

The sheep in England are playing hard to get or something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hehehehehe

I have a distant cousin who is the family historian. What he does for a living is travelling all over and learning and documenting all of the family tree he can come up with. It started in Indiana. Now he travels the world. It is truly amazing to learn not only where you come from but where they came from and how many of each family immigrated to every different country at different times. For example, most people thought that the Gygi family was irish. Wrong. There is a whole town in Scotland called Gygi and most of the residents there have the last name of Gygi. Funny thing, they didn't originate from Scotland. One family member was disowned and immigrated to Scotland from Italy. That is as far back as we can trace, but it is definately interesting to know that though my Great Grandfathers brother came from Ireland, who's Grandfather was from Scotland, who's father immigrated from Italy to be with his uncle. And on it goes. I thought that we were "the great American melting pot" as we are often told. Condemning immigrants is condemning ourselves. But then again, I never assumed that immigrants were lazy or on welfare or took good jobs from "Americans". If you saw the quality of "American" workers in Kansas City, you may actually wish for some "lazy immigrants". They will probably mooch off of welfare less than the lazy idiots who live here. When you have inferior education systems, you have a lot of people who don't know how to think for themselves and think that everything is owed to them and they don't have to work for anything. I would love to work with those who think they are lucky to work at the McDonald's downtown and do their work with pride and accept it as an opportunity for something better. This is what I see in the immigrants I have known.

How does he make a living being the family historian, by the way? Does he provide genealogical support for other families as well?

By Coogan on Friday, November 30, 2001 - 01:03 pm: Prejudice is reality. Are you saying there are no spanish speakers in the U.S.? i hear spanish spoken every day - going to a store, a bar, my next door neighbor. the labels of most of the things i buy - like food or household products - are in english and spanish; sometimes only in spanish. most of the bills and junk mail i get are bilingual. when i'm driving home i pass a billboard advertising chivas regal with a picture of four well-dressed men toasting each other and the words "porque tú sabes vivir" (because you know how to live). * Are you saying we have no ignorant diseased illegal immigrants taking welfare and [y]our tax dollars? i've worked with a lot of illegal aliens. i never caught a disease. my tax dollars seem to go to the four corners of the earth. * Are you saying there is no spic mafia? who doesn't have a mafia of some sort? * Are you saying that crooked politicians dont bend over to get the black vote in ghetto city areas? unlike the honest politicians in england who ignore their ghettoes. * Are you saying we dont allow muslims to attack [y]our institutions? the last muslim i saw face to face was when the tread on my tire came off and i had to limp my car to his tire shop. (I understand the english call them "tyres"). he sold me a tire and a guy who spoke spanish put it on. me encanta los estados unidos

He worked for Hughes for years and was able to retire early. He does this from his retirement fund. I see him about twice a year as he goes thru his travels. The last muslim I knew was a woman I worked with at At&T. She was someone I sat with to listen to calls while I was in training. She understood the problems I was having with pregnancy (cuz we all I know I am a walking problem during pregnancy) and was wonderful. She had completely adapted to the muslim culture and religion. She was also a wealth of knowledge and a wonderful person. I miss her. There are good people and bad of every culture and we need not look at the religion or whether or not they are an immigrant. It is not our job to judge based on religion or culture. It is our job to choose our friends based on who they are.

I'm still waiting for Coogans version of how we allow muslims to attack our institutions.

Seems Coogan has taken a leave of absence.

living in Los Angeles has definitely helped shape my view of immigrants...illegal or not. Im like droop in regards to hearing spanish, seeing spanish billboards etc. Hell i live in a latino-majority neighborhood. The lessons of greater acceptance, and value placed on immigrants was learned here because they are accepted, utilized and valued in terms of community. In places like Atlanta, Raleigh, Greensboro, where I've lived before, they are more segregated and alienated...making the perceptions vastly more negative. Also, here I've greatly expanded my mexican palate and for that Im most grateful.

Maybe that is why I see people vs. race. Or why I look at people vs. race. I was born in Hollywood and grew up in San Jose and L.A. I have noticed more segregation out here in Kansas City and it drives me nuts. A lot of my family lives in L.A. (actually Gardena, Hawthorne, Lawndale, and Long Beach) and they are a diverse bunch. My cousin married a hispanic man and is now Jennifer Lopez (not the famous one). Another cousin was engaged to a Japanese man and had a beautiful daughter with him (before he ran off to share his roommates girlfriend in Texas ala Jerry Springer). The perceptions out here are definately different from that in Cali, and definately more negative. Funny thing is that I get offended and I am as white as they come. I still don't get the whole we allow muslims to attack us thing. I mean I didn't contribute to the Taliban bombing of WTC fund. I didn't invite them into my home and ask them to crash on the couch so they would get a good nights rest before they went on a suicide mission. I would like to have this train of thought explained to me.

so how about our government sending out letters to Muslim men in this country asking them to come in for questioning? Actually, not Muslim ingenreal but middle eastern. And of course, all in light of the European American Muslim Taliban fighter they just captured,

like i said, pretty soon Ashcroft will be sending them letters saying they've won a free vacation to Hawaii, never to be heard from again. that dumbass who got caught up in the taliban is just that. not worth anymore discussion as far as Im concerned. whats more alarming is whats happening in Israel. Im 110% for Palestinian sovereignty...however these bombs must stop going off. Israel does have a right to defend itself. And past Israeli incursions do, in a sense, justify Palestinian retaliation, however not by suicide bombers. If the Hamas were acting on behalf of Arafat (are they? I doubt so) that would be one thing.However it seems they arent, and for that, Israel is just going to follow the lead Dubya has taken, and apply the same rhetoric and justification for the attacks to come. Im thinking that perhaps Arafat is not qualified as a leader. He fucked up by not getting a hold of Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

Predudice is prevalent through out the world. It is almost always based on stereo types which themselves are based on an exaggerated realty. It also has a regional flavor. In the east coast it's mostly Blacks. In the Southwest Mexicans and Indians. I'm lucky; working for the government has allowed me to work with a wider cultural base than I did in private industry. I have been fortunate to see first hand both the good and bad qualities of the individuals which I believe are the root to must stereo types. And, I can attest that the good qualities far out weigh the bad. And, that there are more simularities between us all then differences.

Oh I get it, you have been in every pen in the states? Enjoy the creamed beef.

Luckily I haven't been in any Pens. You don't have to get down and dirty with the worst part of humanity to know about it. It's on TV every night - it's called the evening news. To learn the rest you just have to be observent.

OK patrick, here's what I want to know: Why is a bomb perfectly ok when dropped from a plane, but not ok when strapped to a chest? Covert: no, I will not accept this response. If you DO happen to see a bomber plane approaching, you won't be able to get out of the way anyway. This gets to the whole 'terrorists vs. freedom fighters' issue, which is so subjective it's barely worth talking about. But you have to admit that Israel has been pretty opportunistic in its response to Sep 11 and the US's actions. FK

Is not ok when strapped to the chest cos it hurts like fuck when it goes off. Is ok from a plane cos you can drink coffee while you are blowing the towel heads to offal. Israel is a nation built on terrorism. The whole of Israel was snatched from the arab world and has brutally seized territory without united nations censure. They get away with this because the Israelis trade on the collective guilt factor of the Holocaust. Palestinians are the new jews, Palestine is one big concentration camp.

FK, neither bombs are ok. Israel has been opportunistic since 9/11. Indeed. Hamas is not a legitimate state. If the Hamas publically represented Arafat then their actions may not be seen so much as terroristic as they would be an act of war. Further, if they were actions of a legitimate state, they would be subject to the Geneva Convention terms of warfare. The Palestinians would be guilty of war crimes by using suicide bombs. At least Isreal if forthright with their retaliation. Those f-16s and appaches have the Israeli flag printed on the tail. Just or not. I don't deny Israel has been terrorizing that region for decades. i also realize, from the Palestinian perspective its hard to negotiate peace when Israel is occupying your land and rolling tanks through your streets every other week. But they don't make much of a case when they can't control the Hamas.

But suicide bombers are acts by fanatic individuals that can't be controlled anymore than our goverment stopping abortion clinic bombings.Where as Israel terroism is fully backed by their goverment.

well...yes.

If Arafat would use some of that great big pile of money he gets from the U.S., Saudi Arabia, Jordan, ect. for the palistinian people instead of arming the terrorist organizations. Or his own personal wealth. Then the Palistinians wouldn't be down troden. Also, if they taught the kids a trade in school instead of the lesson that they must kill all Israelies. Then they might have a future. By the way, I heard a rumor that Arafat is egyptian not palistinian. That might account for him not caring what really happens to the palistinian people.

The fact that a government backs terrorism, though not a happy truth for the victims of that terrorism, doesn't justify the bombing of the people who live under that government. I think. Also, one difference between what we call terrorist attack and an army's attack is that the terrorist is being irrational, whereas the army is rational. But in our own courts, a rational attack is considered a more serious offence than one commited in an irrational state. This seems to be an interesting discrepency.

Don't try to rationalize it. The world is crazy. However, An army will attack inferstructure and direct opposing forces. Civilian casualties are an unfortunate side effect of this. This has not changed since the introduction of gunpowder. It has gotten a lot better. But, at the same time societies tolerance, at least in the U.S., has gotten smaller. Terrorists target civilians. They know targeting a governments inferstructure and armies would be difficult. But, it is much easier to go after civilians. And, the younger the better. Dead babies make for much better television. Which is better? An Israely jet fires missiles at a building, where they know Homas is planning a terrorist attack, and two palistinian teenagers outside are killed by accident. Or, a Homas suicide bomber goes to a night club or boards a bus and blows himself up killing at least three or four civilians and injuring many more.

the one questions that needs to be shoved down Sharon's throat is how the fuck is Arafat supposed to do ANYTHING if you are destroying his infrastucture?? The retaliation by Israel is senseless, blind and childish. Destroying a police headquarters will not help getting Hamas (note watcher, its hAmas). Destroying Arafat's helicopters will not aide Arafat in accomplishing the tasks Israel is asking of him. Dumbasses. Israeli Israeli

The problem with Arafat is he's caught between a rock and a hard place. If he arrests the ones responsible for the bombings he allienates over half of the Palistinians. If he continues to let them go, like he has so far, the Israelies will bomb his police stations and helecopters. By the way, if the palistinian police aren't arrestiong the Hamas (thanks Patrick) they don't need there stations anyway. All they are doing is caring guns and shooting at the Israelies when they retaliate.

yes Arafat is in a pickle of a situation but its one he brought on himself...which to me, exemplifies why he is not a good leader. i don't believe the Hamas have over half the Palestinians' support. When under siege, yes, the Palestinians will support ANY retaliation to Israel, there are sheep in every population. In peacetime though, the Hamas don't truly represent them. this doesnt make a whole lot of sense "By the way, if the palistinian police aren't arrestiong the Hamas (thanks Patrick) they don't need there stations anyway. All they are doing is caring guns and shooting at the Israelies when they retaliate."

the other patrick makes some pretty good points about the whole thing in this article. too bad he's a xenophobic nutbag.

i found it interesting what he said on Clinton and the last hour diplomacy he did at Camp David. He's much more likeable when he's not on the bully pulpit.