We were college roomates/& almost law school roomates. (I came to my senses after getting accepted & bagged law school to go out & make money.) And of all the people I hung w/in college/she's the only one who stayed in touch -- for nearly 20 years. She's already on the transplant waiting list/but that cd take years. If she can arrange for a live donation/she can get a new kidney much sooner. We haven't seen each other since college but we talk on the phone regularly/& we used to write to each other before she lost her eyesight (another complication of the diabetes). Her health problems & her teaching schedule (she's a law school prof.) have prevented her from traveling much. By emotionally/we're as close as when we were pulling all nighters together & bitching abt the 9 month-long Boston winters. My mom loves her/esp. becuz she's the onlynschool chum of mine who stayed in touch. Yet my own mother/a retired M.D. herself/is against my donating a kidney to save my friend's life!! What kind of shit is that!? I haven't received the initial info package from her transplant coordinator yet/but I know it's major surgery/I know it it will involve several weeks recovery time/etc. From the little I know abt other kidney donors/once they recovered from the operation/their lives returned to normal w/out any negative side effetcs. If I have to cut way back on my drinking/so be it. Even if I have to quit altogether/I can accept that I am EXTREMELY pissed that my Mom is not being more supportive abt this. The chances that I'll be a close enuf match to even be selected as a donor are very slim. (But this little voice inside me keeps telling me I *will* be a match/which is why I'm going to get tested.) But it seems to me as a mother/she of all people shd understand wanting to give the gift of life to someone you love -- even if they aren't a relative. (My friend is an only child. Her Mom is in poor health & her dad -- well/he wasn't there to raise her/so she isn't counting on him for anything.) My Mom can't stop me/but I really wish she'd be more supportive. I haven't talked to my Da abt it yet. They're in Colorado skiing now/but I'lly & have a sit-down with them when they get back. Do you guys think what I'm doing is 'ridiculous' & 'far too risky'? Or is Ma just being a selfish old biddy? |
therefore it might be a lot of risk for you and not much gain for her |
I think you need to get that information and look over it carefully. Sit down with your mother and talk more. Recognise that she and your father will find it hard to be rational about it and be gentle with them. But ask them what they would do if the situation was reversed, and it was your kidneys that needed to be traded in. I disagree with Heather about the friends's health deterioration being a factor. Just last week I was talking to a woman whose brother had died and the family had donated his organs. The "lungs", as she refers to the donor receivor, was bedridden and on his last breaths. Now he's living a normal life. Admittedly, the diabetes sounds like it's winning the battle and probably will eventually prevail. But you could give her a bit more of a fighting chance and maybe some pain-free years. And I suggest the doctors would not put her through a kidney transfer op unless they knew it would result in signficant life improvement. You may lose a kidney, but what a lot you'll gain. How many of us get the chance to help save or prolong the life of someone we love? |
your mom sounds like she's being overprotective and doesn't want you to get hurt, but shit, most mothers are that way and most of the time there is nothing you can do to change that. it's not like you're donating your kidney to a complete stranger, this is a friend that you've known for 20 years and you will see how she's treating your kidney. |
(1) your friend may not like dialysis but it will keep her alive until a cadaver donor is available. (2) this will be major surgery for BOTH of you. (3) there is no guarantee that you will live thru the surgery. (4) you can live with one kidney but what if you develope a medical problem and loose it. (5) the debate continues. is diabetes an auto-immune disorder? if so then the chances of rejection greatly multiply. (6) advanced diabetic complications combined with renal failure and then the need for life long anti-rejection drugs = poor prognosis. (7) irreversible circulatory system damage from DM makes further complications such as CVA (stroke) likely. of all the renal transplant patient's i have cared for-only one lived for 7 years after transplant and she had a CVA during her 2nd year (post transplant). she then became confined to a feeding tube and nursing home. now i will admit that my patient's co-morbidity was high, but so is your friend's. wanting to make this sacrifice is noble, but i doubt the potential gain is high enough to off-set the risk/loss. especially when you consider that she can live with dialysis and wait for a cadaver donor. |
If I'm a match/I'm sure I'll have several long conversations with her doctors to examine all the pros & cons before they let me decide. I know there's no guarantee I'll live thru the surgery. There's no guarantee anyone will live thru any major surgery. But there's no 'guarantee' I'll even live thru tonite. I've taken greater risks for much less significant reasons (skydiving/freebasing/racing in fast cars w/insane men) so the risk factor here isn't a deterrent. Even if a new kidney only gives her 5 more years/if she gets 5 reasonably-healthy years/I think it's worth it. If I were in her shoes/I hope someone wd care enuf to do the same for me. |
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A mid-wife I worked with donated a kidney to her sister. It was a rough time for her. She was out of work for quite awhile. Both are doing well now. Its a noble thought,and if you match,do what your heart tells you. |
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from what i understand, the donor suffers more from the loss of the kidney than person who has kidney disease and gets the kidney. my dad's girlfriend's son needs a kidney and she might be the only match to donate. her information packet said it takes years to recover from being a donor, during which time the donors typically can be very ill. this is not to say you shouldn't donate. |
to you: your firend's life or your kidney and having better chances for good renal health for the rest of your life? I know I have friends whom I would not do such a thing for, but then I have friends where I wouldn't think twice about it. You'll make the right decision R. C. |
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But I can live a decent life w/1 healthy kidney & I have 2. My friend will die/prolly sooner than later w/out a transplant. |
I'd even give my uterus away,for free. |
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So... there you go. |
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You can only donate one kidney while you are alive. Is there anyone in your immeadiate family who - if they needed a kidney - you could or would donate to? |
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I have 1 sibling/a brother/whom I have no real feelings for. Yes/we grew up in the same house with the same parents. No/he didn't sexually abuse me or do anything beyond the usual Little Brother Torture Tatics when we were kids. I've just never liked him/as a person. We were never close & I wdn't be willing to give him a kidney. I don't believe - personally - in donating organs after I'm dead when I have no say in who gets them. I think the organ donation system is stacked against the poor & uninsured & non-White/so I refuse to let anyone harvest my organs after I die. And more importantly/being able to literally give the gift of live to someone I love while I'm alive to see them enjoy the benefits of an organ donation means a lot more to me than helping some stranger live long & prosper because of my death. Hope has such a brilliant/beautiful mind. I fled academia after getting my B.A./chickened out after getting accepted @ Harvard Law & went off to make $$ (for a few years, anyway). Hope stayed @ Harvard & got her law degree. Instead of using it to make herself rich/she went on to work for Randall Robinson @ TransAfrica/then went on to teach & write articles about International Human Rights Law/Female Genital Mutilation -- important things people need to know abt in this Land of the Free. She's got at least 2 great books in her -- one about Manley & what his leadership meant to Jamaica/& one abt the experiences of Jamaican immigrants in this country. All she needs is time. If I can give her that time/& still have a kidney left that will let me function normally in the world/that's what I want to do. |
many people seem to have an opinion similar to this, and i think it's just ignorant and selfish [i don't mean to attack you, rc, although i'm sure it seems like it] maybe the problem is that too many people feel that way if everyone who could donated [after death], there would probably be more than enough for anyone in need same with everything else for that matter but damn, if you don't need it, can't possibly use it- what's the point of holding on to it? |
I think if there is an "important" person in need of a heart/kidney/lung transplant, and you are in the hospital, not doing so very well, and you signed an organ doaner card, and your blood type matched this "VIP", you just cut your chances of survival by about 75%. |
I would, though, give an organ to someone I loved if they needed it and I could do it. I have already had to face that possiblity twice. Once, when my grandmother was in the hospital. (That would be when she was in Baptist honey and they wanted her on dialysis 8 hrs a day 5 days a week). And once for my aunt. It turned out that my cousin was a match, but she mysteriously passed away before the transplant could happen. I am torn on this issue as I think about it. I mean, my aunt was one of the most inspirational people I have ever known, and she needed a heart and lungs transplant. I obviously couldn't do that for her. It would have to be someone who passed. It would have to be someone who passed recently (I assume) if the heart were to work in her body. So on the whole thing I am torn. |
maybe Im missing something here. what does your blood type, while in a hospital, after an accident, have to do with organ donation? you're right heather. anyone who is not an organ donor should be ashamed...the selfish bastards. |
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possibly even paranoid. |
Maybe. Too many "Coma" books I imagine. Selfish? Not really. My heart is not in good shape as it is, I smoke so I doubt anyone would want my lungs, and with the pills I have to take to sleep, I sure would not want my own damn kidneys. Ignorant? I am not going to even bother with that one. |
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well, doctors would best be able to make this determination. so yeah, its selfish. |
in a way, you are creating the problem you are afraid of. you are also condoning a situation that might leave someone you love with no options past waiting to die. |
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It just freaks me out. My wife would donate. But, she is definately inelligable because of her MS. Although she has made arangements for a research project. |
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it used to freak me out too. but then i came to realize what an ignorant notion that was. that there was nothing to freak out about because im dead. stop being a pussy watcher. |
as long it is my wifes, that is |
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I call it my : Organ Prison Procurement Program [OPPP] Its quite simple,really.We have scads of prisoners,who we are housing and clothing etc,at an enormous cost to the tax payers. What if we could make them more "beneficial",or useful,to society? Implement a level program.The first level being the worst,[for the prisoner].This would be the total organ level.If the prisoners data matches up with little Suzy Smith,and she needs a heart,or liver,or something a person has only one of,I say we've got a donar. This would be incentive for prisoners to behave themselves,to try and move up to level 2.Level 2 would be a "2 organ" level.Meaning we could only take 1 of something a person has 2 of ,like a kidney or lung. There could be optimal levels,like where all you could get would be maybe a cornea. Lots of incentives to behave,and to the bleeding heart liberals,I'd just have to say that maybe that prisoner should of thought of his liver before whacking poor granny on the head with an ax to steal her $30.00 Theres a few bugs,but it could kill 2 birds with 1 stone. |
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um yeah anyway what im saying is, if the boy says "i dont like looking at any cooch that isnt my wife's" he's a liar. |
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I can honestly say that I really have become a spoiled brat, and REALLY picky. I find most women un-actractive except for Eri |
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men are visual animals and enjoy looking till the day they die. as far as the whole organ conspiracy thing....hahahaha....and i'm getting regular anal probings from the alens in the mother-ship. i've seen the medical system and it is not competent nor sophisticated enough to pull off a conspiracy of this magnitude. i also get tired of the same old "story" of minorities the indigent dying while the rich get wonderful care, BULLSHIT, i've seen it go both ways with race and social status having nothing to do with it. weak excuses for maintaiing ignorance. |
just that to say you "don't like looking" is poop. |
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My wife and I are honest with each other. If i were to say to her, "yeah, i don't like looking at naked women on HBO anymore" she'd laugh her ass off. She also wasn't complaining when we watched the Pillow Book seeing Ewen MacGregor's wang and butt nor would she complain to see Jude Law's schlong on the TV. Its that kind of crap (denial of the wife, lying of the husband) that gets couples in unncessary trouble because neither has been honest with the other. otherwise don't shoot the messenger. I haven't belittled you. as usual i've probably said too much on this so i'll let it alone. |
One common phrase is "Hey, I'm married, not dead". Looking at a scantily clad females, and staring at a cooch when you are married are two different subjects altogether. Now, looking at scantily clad females/males while with s/o and grunting or comparing them to your S/O is suicide at best. I have been known to, and caught, looking at another female, but watching porno in a dark room by yourself is another matter entirely. |
*cough* Too funny, Spunky. Somebody stop me! |
You did compare this to you and your wife's relationship. That is very different from ours. We communicate just fine. What we find attractive in the opposite sex is different. C'mon, you didn't think we were just like everyone else did you? |
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i didnt comment on this at all, and would'nt. you assume because he looks that you aren't enough which is a denial of biology and an illogical insecurity. my wife looks, i look. its human nature. Im not threatened by these looks nor is she. Do i think i am "not enough to satisfy" because she looks? No way. Nor does she. What keeps those looks from becoming anything more is our intellectual committment to each other. I made no comment about your intellectual committment and won't. to think trace isn't looking at other women's bodies is denial on your part and a lie on his. sorry but, please, get your head out of the clouds. im sorry, i wanted to let this go, but that first part was just too absurd to not address. |
prisoner/organ donor thing. So here's why it's a bad idea: You get one innocent guy in there and the whole thing is fucked. What are you going to do, give the organ back? Plus, what offenders would have their organs stolen? Rapists? murderers? guys who got busted for dope? Political prisoners? And what about the fact that the prison population as a whole is overrepresented by black men? So you'll have a whole population with only one kidney? And hey, since our prisons are now organ farms, why not increase the number of crimes that are considered felonies? Didn't pay your taxes? THere goes your spleen! It sounds funny, but forget it, this ain't China. |
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Now, in Los Angeles, at Kaiser hospitals, people were waking up finding that needles had been stuck in their pupils |
I would REALLY appreciate it you would stop trying to make this out into I am cheating on my wife kind of thing, for the love of GOD. I do not get off on looking at other "cooches". Really. I do admit an occasional glance at a girl here and there, no lingering, mouth breathing, drooling STARES, but a glance maybe. I do not sit in front of my PC downloading porn, I do not buy JUGS, or rent Debbie Does Everybody. I think most women in porn are old used up hags with butt ass ugly tits. Seriously. I liked that shit from the time I was 12 to about 26 (yes, up to TWO years AFTER I got married), but since then I got BORED with it. I never ment to start this shit up. I was making a joke playing off of Patrick's words, and this has really gotten out of hand. I enjoy a good intellectual debate, but jesus, this is ASSININE. Continue being adults please, and MOVE ON. |
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Her eyes. Not necessarily the color, but the light. That, combined with her hair, facial structure, skin tone, and where her neck meets the shoulders. I mean this, make what ever "cough cough, yea right" comments you want, but those are the best physical qualities Erin has. Her smile. six years since we started dating, and I am more in love with her now then I was the day we got married. |
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Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. Nor is it cheating on your wife to enjoy looking at other women. |
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looking does NOT equal cheating and if it is, well your values are wack. jesus christ people...have some confidence in the one you married. see how religion and american christian puritanism can fuck with people's heads? |
im looking at your cooch. |
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Think my christian puritanical head is in the clouds all you want. In then end it is you I feel sorry for. |
You too, Cat! |
No need to get all snooty, Eri. I don't make a judgment call on people who prefer not to view pornography. I get all extra spicy when I watch porn with my partner. But then I'm just a bad bad girl. |
my wife shops for porn with me. she picks up my nudie mags when dusting. men looking at dirty parts is perfectly healthy. im glad i don't have any christian guilt to prompt me to throw out my porn. what a waste. but then again, its that christian guilt prompting men to throw out their porn, so the next 14 year old boy can find it in the trash and take it to his treehouse. if it isnt an intellectual committment that keeps it going for more than a look then what is it? chains? electro-shock therapy? did you not make a committment of words at the altar? Reply-to: millenico@earthlink.net From: "Nico M*******" <millenico@earthlink.net> | Block Address | Add to Address Book To: "patrick" <accustat@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:38:32 -0800 wha? you're weird patrick m*******. love nico re: im looking at big hot hairy poon on the internet love patrick |
Either way, have you ever considered something deeper than a mere intellectual relationship? There is always romance and passion and love, but also friendship and a spiritual connection. Much more than words. Have you ever had the feeling that if you lost your spouse you could never be involved with anyone else again? Not guilt. That strong of a connection. To actually have a soul mate. I don't make judgement calls on people who choose to look at pornography. It is people who condemn those who don't and blame it on christianity or whatever that get me. People who aren't willing to consider a simple difference. I wasn't into pornography long before I became a christian. I simply don't enjoy it and have no desire to see it. Other people naked does nothing for me. I am much more into a sensuality and touching that you just can't get from a movie or a magazine or a picture. Doesn't make any sense that after almost 6 years, my husband is getting into the same things as me. Must be guilt. Must be denial. Couldn't be he actually likes something different. |
Intellectual connection is everything to me. Minds intermingling and rubbing cosily up against each other, laughing happily at shared thoughts...now I'm starting to get hot. |
a slight one, because i know all along its just the pot. i swear to god ive never been that high. i was laying on the bed spinning and petting stars and repeating "no one ever dies from pot" over and over and nico came in to lay with me. we talked and she stroked my back. she said "pretend we're in a teepee, and we're out on the prairie and we'll call you Eating Grass." She got the native indian name "Red Canyon" and we just laughed and giggled and made this whole story up about Eating Grass eating too many roots again and getting all messed up in the teepee and having to have Red Canyon calm him down, so on and so forth. in this instance, we were just giggling and playing and laughing and i forgot all about being high as a kite. THIS is I think what you mean cat, and yes, the term soulmate is a wretched one...something never uttered in my house. to her, i am her "familiar". im still looking at your coochie. |
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you trace? Would you read it? Cat, I think it's nice that you would keep the garden gnomes and cement deer up when people are looking at your mowed and watered cooch. |
What kind of porn works for you, Sem? You just don't seem the type to get off on "Hooray for Huge Hooters" like Trace. |
Seriously, I like non-enhanced women. If it's plainshe's been siliconed, that's a turn off. I like small breasts. I really like a good pair of hips. I really like humorous porn, such as Blackman. What do you like? |
I like fucking porn more than just some lame guy standing alone. Especially nice oral shots. The exception was this video of a guy coming all over a girl wearing glasses. The come on her glasses was too funny. |
and what is with the hypocrisy of guys jacking off being gross and threatening while women who diddle themselves are empowered and liberated and even sexy? people are so uptight. |
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Obsession can lead to jealousy and thoughts of ownership. Thus, orgasm ownership. Reminds me of my favorite spoonerism, an Oldsmobile promotion I once saw, advertising an "Owner's Bonus" plan. |
i have an inkling for vintage porn. the fact they were being so bloody nasty when it was so damned taboo kinda gets my goat. Further, there really wasnt a porn industry back then per se, so what you see are often stag films and homemade crap. You can watch them and be like "hey nice lamp" or "nice t-bird" and then be amazed that they knew what ass sex was back then. cat if trace and eri want to see our sex pics, they can surely ask. "and what is with the hypocrisy of guys jacking off being gross and threatening while women who diddle themselves are empowered and liberated and even sexy?" males are shamed for sexual expression from childhood. why is the female body revered as sensual where as the male body revered something akin to a lawn mower (in keeping with theme)? |
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i think everyone has a few soul mates. i have platonic soul mates of both sexes. granted, not a lot of them, but there are a few. you know it's a soul mate... there's a certain connection, an ineffable or peculiar type of intimacy. an understanding. regarding porn: porn does not appeal to me whatsoever, and not for any moral or ethical reasons. i'm not repulsed by it nor intrigued. even by "arty" porn or whatever it wants to call itself. believe me, i've tried to enjoy it, but the asthetic simply does not appeal to me. imagination is much more powerful than any movie or magazine or pictures i could look at. |
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And the male body IS at a low premium in the porn world. Why does Hustler and every other jackoff rag have photos of nude women getting it on, but not nude guys? It's unfair, you know. Very unfair. |
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As for porn, I'm really not all that into it. I've got a hottie at home so the porn's pretty boring by comparison. I let Oswald keep a few mags, though. He mostly seems to use them for laughs. He and his buddies find them hilarious. |
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looking- i could take it or leave it. reading, i like. |
Women's bodies are aesthetic. But God knows, so are men's. As for porn, it's often just silly. I'd rather have the real thing. |
The two or three magazines I had were filled with older women with fake boobies pretending to be teenagers when you could see the bags under their eyes. The stories that were in them were all the same ones, just retold in different fashion. You ever go to Taco Bell and look at the menu? For the most part, it is just meat, beans, cheese, and lettuce either put in a soft flour tortilla, or over chips or in a taco shell. Throw sour cream and hot sauce over it all you want, it is still the same ol' same ol. It tastes the same, no matter what. It gets old. You seen one porno tape, you have seen them all. You read one porno mag, you've read them all. It gets old and dull and even stupid after a while. You just get sick of it. That is what happened with me and porn. I did not get up on some high moral horse, or some weird Christian trip (anyone who knows anyhing about me knows I cannot stand anybody dictating to me how I should act or think, just ask Erin) I |
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end of all strings in Sorabjiland. Reproductive organs being removed and shoved elsewhere. Order has been restored. All is well with the world |
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ZIM? ARGH! MY Squiggely-Spooge! |
If someone needs a kidney/then one of yr friend's or relatives shd offer to donate one - dontcha think? Isn't that what familial love & friendship & all that stuff are abt? Funny how a person's own family members can refuse to give an organ & that's never construed by others as 'selfish'. Yet people who refuse to sign away their parts after they die are looked down on by complete strangers. It makes no sense. The organ donation system in America is one market where I believe that the ability to pay for something shd translate into one's right to have it. I wish the feds wd get off their ethical high horse & allow private enterprise to set up an organs-for-sale system where the rich cd go & flat-out buy a kidney, etc. from someone willing to sell theirs to the highest bidder. BUT - the availability of said enterprise shd also require that anyone making more than, say $500k , wd be forced off the national transplant lists & wdn't be allowed to go the usual route to obtain an organ. Granted/there aren't scores of rich bastards waiting for organ transplants. But if we cd remove Larry Hagman & folks of that ilk from the mix & let them go the free enterprise route/I think there wd be a lot more faith & trust in the organ donation system than there is now. When I read in Reader's Digest a few years ago abt how the governor of PA got a triple-organ transplant/I decided then & there that I wd never let my organs be donated to a stranger after my death. |
you're dead you're dead. be fertilizer so a flower can grow if you like or donate an organ so someone can live and maybe go on to impact the earth the way you have, who cares whats in their bank account. these things have a way of coming back around so to speak. to deny we are all one, that our energies just don't dissipate, that what you do dead or alive can have an impact, for the positive. its just seems obvious. |
not to mention, that even though you don't seem inclined, generous people donate their properties and savings to various causes all the time. why would it be considered selfish for a living person to refuse to donate to a relative and risk their life in the meantime? i'm talking about people who have already died. people whose relatives are not on transplant lists. thousands of people who could make other people's lives [including your friend,] infinitely easier by letting go of something that is only going to rot away. |
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The dialog is so bad I fell on the floor laughing. I wish I could find a copy of it. |