http://www.saveteddy.org/ I know it was a terrible thing to have murdered all 5 of her children, but I feel sorry for this poor woman.Her husbands stands by her during the trial,but where was the support while she's popping out babies one right after another,and home schooled them too,when did she ever have a minute to herself? Where was the support when after the birth of her 4th child and she was already diagnosed with postpartum depression and her husband still wanted to have as many children as humanly possible,it's Goddamn scarey! She tried to kill herself twice,was in mental hospitals at least twice that I know of,was only out of the last one 29 days before she killed thosr poor kids.And her father had died after the birth of her last child,and she had slipped back into postpartum depression,making it even worse,who was there for her?

How's things going for you J? Mom OK?

Didn't you get my e-mail yesterday? She's doing alot better,todays her birthday and she eating better,her mind will never be the same though,I got power of attoney for her now.

That is going to be Christopher's story in about two years if things do not change

Actually my mind is never going to be the same either, the above link doesn't go with my rant,it was suppose to be this http://www.yateskids.org/

sorry, haven't checked my mail. i'm going there now.

Where can you go for this help if you need it? Actually it is out there, and readily available. Do you feel sorry for someone who doesn't take advantage of that? When this happens to my sister (notice I am not saying if, but rather when) am I going to feel sorry for her? Hell no. She has had plenty of opportunities handed to her on a silver platter. She has been forced into therapy. She doesn't want nor accept any of it, but simply expect the world to feel sorry for her. In the end it is the kids I feel sorry for. I get extremely angry when people hurt children and then make excuses. As if there is any excuse for the intentional harming of an innocent child. "I'm the victim here, not the babies in the coffins. Why should I have to take responsibility for my own actions?"

http://www.cnn/2002/LAW/02/18/yatestrial/index.html read this then and tell me why her husband isn't on trial too,she did try to get help,why did her husband want her to keep having babies when he knew she had severe mental problems?

Donations for her defense? Why? I heard she just signed a lucrative contract to be the spokesperson for Mr. Bubble, bubble bath and Johnson's No More Tears Shampooo.

sorry....just felt like being an asshole....

I thought it was funny.

Her husband SHOULD be on trial. Same thing goes to Erin's sister. Sure, I do not think he gave the baby the broken nose or scratches or bruises or cuts on the nose or skull fracture or taped a pacifier in his mouth. But he HAD to know she was doing, had to KNOW she had some serious problems, and want to protect his son from the harm she was/is/will be doing. But nope, everyone says he is just fine and dandy, and him going off to join the air force and being states away from his son is the best thing he could be doing for his sons future. What about now? when the courts say "If you and annie seperate, you can have sole custody of your child. but if you and annie stay together, then there is a chance you will never see your son again" what do you do? join the airforce and leave? to me, that is just denying the problem. Sorry, but I still get pissed over that whole thing.

Who is Andrea Yates, and what happened?

I don't blame you and that first link will probably end up being Christophers story.

I also feel sorry for the woman. She was acutely psychotic. People in this state are noticably "odd". They don't just snap one day,there are many,many warning signs. Its a horribly tragic story. The husband is a control freak. He should be bearing the blame for what happened. [And sadly,FB,I thought it was funny,too.]

OK, now I have boned up on the story. Woman was/is psycho, no doubt about it. I love the way that religion seemed to tie nicely into this. It just confirms opinions I have recently formed. Husband & husband's mom must bear some blame here as well. That woman was clearly not suitable to be around children, not to mention left ALONE with them.

And, sickly enought, it was funny FB

Thank You. Thank You. Next show at 6:00

FB, i also thought it was a riot. anyway, this story is so wrong on so many levels that it's hard to even make any rational commentary about it. these "people" had no business breeding...certainly not having FIVE kids. never mind that the woman was obviously losing her marbles and nobody effectively addressed the issue, let alone openly encouraged her NOT have more children. people may think i'm just being a wiseass when i talk about my loathing for breeder culture, but i'm not. i think that the andrea yates story (and the ongoing epidemic of other mothers who have killed or seriously harmed their own offspring) is quite tragic. oh, sure, the yates bitch is off her rocker. but in a society that worships meaningless breeding, procreation for its own sake, what more can we expect? i think that very, very few people are meant to have children. the best & the brightest, that's who should be breeding. but it's not, is it? spend two hours in wal-mart & you'll see who's breeding the most. large numbers of children are usually found in the "care" of the LEAST capable people. having children is not only ridiculously romanticized, but is considered "the thing to do". it's what normal people do. it's even encouraged by most religious institutions. and as long as it's held in such high esteem, people will continue to breed thoughtlessly, without regard to their own mental (or spiritual, financial, physical, or ethical) qualifications as parents. Are such people truly thinking in serious ways about their children's overall welfare? women are the primary victims, because child care is so often foisted off on them, as if they sired the little buggers all by themselves. if more people realized that it's not only okay, but that it's a sane & rational choice to remain childless, then the world would be a better place. certainly, people who aren't equipped to deal w/ the pressures of parenthood wouldn't feel obligated to have children. of course, this assumes the existence of a rational population, something that should NEVER be assumed. but i can daydream. what kind of man would notice his wife's deteriorating mental health & then insist upon fathering more children w/ her? the 5 children are the victims of their parents (yes, that's plural, indicating BOTH of the damned things). andrea yates is the victim of the herd mentality & breeding to either keep up w/ the joneses, please her husband, make god happy, or whatever delusional bullshit excuses are in vogue this week. meanwhile, her husband's doing a great job of playing the martyr in this shabby little drama. five human souls have been cancelled out. maybe it's the result of pure evil. maybe it's even natural selection. darwinism. but i think it's just what happens when incompetent people go around breeding. as the population continues to spiral out of control, we can expect more of the same. and what the hell, it's not the first time this has ever happened. mothers killing their kids is nothing new in the world. they just get better coverage these days.

I'm not disputing a thing you say Crimson,except mothers kill their kids all the time,but usually those mothers kill their kids out of some other reason,they were abusive from day one,or insurance money,or like Diane Downs (former Chandler AZ. resident)she wanted them out of the picture because her boyfriend didn't want kids.Andrea Yates seemed to wave all the flags she could,she was psychotic,had even been described as catonic before she even killed them.Hellooooo,and your right Spunky her husband should be on trial too.

I'm showing up at 6:00,for Beav's next show.

yeah, i'm generalizing, of course. each case is different & this one does seem particularly bizarre. i think the husband certainly should be examined carefully in a criminal investigation instead of being publicly touted as a martyr du jour. it's ridiculous that people are calling for this woman to be executed while treating her husband as if he's some kind of saint.

Speaker as a "breeder" I have to take exception to the remarks about not being allowed to breed, but I do understand your point. I can even support it in some instances. And I am sure that I would not be considered as one to be allowed to breed. What would you propose as an alternative for the perpetuation of the human race? Test tube babies? Testing & liscensing for permits to breed? While that may seem attractive on the surface, that comes dangeroulsy close to "playing god" or mother nature. Also, who would do those jobs nobody wants? Who would work at McDonalds or Wal-Mart? Who would be a janitor or trash collector? Hot, hard factory jobs? Truck Drivers? Used Car Salesmen? If we only allowed the elite to breed, or we geneticaly engineered children for perfection, then the world would be in chaos. Nature, as it were, is perfectly balanced. But, as I told my eldest daughter last night: "If suddenly there was no human left on the earth, the sun would still rise and set, the stars would still be in the sky, the wind would continue to blow. The world will go on".

yep. if the last human dies, the world will go on...& will likely heave a sigh of relief. note that i said, nowhere, that no one should be "allowed" to breed. i just said that in many cases, the wrong people are going about it. i personally don't have major problems w/ parental licensing, but hey, that's just me. i know it's impractical, primarily for all the reasons you've already spelled out. i don't like being around children. nope. don't like them one little bit (teens are another matter, as i obviously dig being around oswald & his cronies). but that's not to say that i don't think that children are important. they're SO important, in fact, that i think mankind had better get its collective shit together about raising its future generations. if parents are not striving for absolute excellence & contributing the best possible thinkers for the future, then why in the bloody hell did they have kids in the first place? it's not as if mediocrity is a gift to mankind. it's not about the parents & their ego trips. it's about bettering humanity. note that i said i don't have an overwhelming fondness for kids. now, if i were one of these baby-killers, what would i do, knowing my natural inclinations? why, i'd have a whole houseful of kids, just because hubby wanted them. right. of course, all of this is the gospel according to crimson. feel free to disregard at any point. i know most people will disagree w/ me. it's just one of those topics i couldn't resist ranting about.

"What would you propose as an alternative for the perpetuation of the human race?" birth control access and proper sex education for starters.

they've tried that. no one seems intersted until it's too late.

"birth control access and proper sex education for starters." I worked at a juvinile detention center for a while, which housed primarily 10-16 year olds, and a person from the health department (i think it was from the hd or maybe family planning, I am not sure which), came and did do a demonstration on birth control and how to "properly put a propholactic on" by putting a rubber on a bananna. The kids were so amused by the sight of an elderly lady putting a condom on a bananna, they rolled on the floor laughing....

"they've tried that. no one seems intersted until it's too late." that half tried it. religious nimrods make it near impossible to implement proper education and open access to birthcontrol. its not just a matter of policy change, its a cultural change as well.

Crimson, I agree with you on many levels. Yes, I have had two children, but I feel that it is your right not to have kids if you don't want them. I think that if you want to go to Starbucks and have a cup of coffee in peace without being bothered by other kids, well, you have that right too. Just because I have children doesn't mean that my children have the right to disturb everyone they run into. It is called making your children behave in public. I don't think that people should have children because it is the in thing or because everyone else is doing it. It is a huge responsibility that I think too many parents shirk off. I don't think people should have more children than they can handle or properly take care of. Notice, I only had two. If you don't want kids, then why have them? My aunt chose not to have children. She decided that she was too selfish of a person to let go of everything she worked for and be a mommy. She often gets grief from her brothers and sisters who lecture her on what she is missing out on. I frequently defend her. She worked for her career and she now teaches at a University in the San Fransisco area. Her husband travels a lot for A.P. There is no law saying that they have to become parents. If there is freedom of choice than there should be freedom to choose not to have kids if you don't want them. I definately don't think that the husband is a saint. I think he should have made sure that his wife had adequate care. I also think that if she is having mental problems he shouldn't have left her with the kids and definately shouldn't have had any more. She should be held accountable, but so should others involved. Maybe I take some of this stuff more personally because of the situation with my sister. Because such a huge injustice has been done to my nephew. Because this whole situation we discuss will be the story of my nephew and she will be using a depression for a defense. I get to sit back and watch it unfold. Something I knew would happen since the moment we found out she was pregnant. It really gets under my skin. Children are an investment in our future. They can be the biggest blessing and the largest nightmares all wrapped into one little package. My life would be much easier if I went back to work and stuck my kids in a day care, but I won't do that. They deserve better. They need someone who is on top of their education and make it a priority. I am not saying that working parents can't do that, just that I couldn't do it if I were working, because my focus would be different. They need someone who can love them unconditionally and still discipline. I want my children to be happy, healthy, intelligent and successful and that isn't going to happen if I let them spend all day watching Power Puff Girls and Pokemon. I have to be involved.

eri, what you've said is really cool. no joke. i'm annoyed by unruly brats in public, but it goes much deeper than that. what i'm much more annoyed by is human stupidity. children ARE an investment in the future, & many people are investing quite poorly. i'm going out for dinner tonight. i know already that some wanker is going to bring their demon-possessed toddler into this nice restaurant so it can shriek its little brains out & wreck everyone's dinner. it's going to happen. but that's much less of an irritation than thinking about all the kids out there whose folks think that the public schools will single-handedly take care of everything their offspring will need to know in life, or the parents who let their kids fill their heads w/ TV garbage instead of actually reading a damn BOOK. these parents who are going apeshit over the harry potter books should just be thanking the gods that their kid can read at all. kids CAN be taught to excel. children are capable of so much more than most people realize. but most folks don't bother w/ that. genuine achievement takes supreme parental effort, which is just too much to ask of the average schmoe. you & trace...& i'd like to think all of the childbearing sorabjiites...sound like pretty good parents. parents w/ a clue.

thank you

I really appreciate that. I often get told I am way too strict and therefore permanently damaging my children's self-esteem. I could simply say that I expect little girls to act like young ladies and little boys to act like young gentlemen and be told I am too strict. I remember the first time I took Hayley to dance class. Here were 3 year old kids ordering the parents around, and if the parent said no then the child would scream and create a huge scene and the parent would give in to shut them up. Pissed me off. If the child is going to act like that for not getting their way, then they should go HOME. You want to throw a fit, fine no dance class tonight. I know that I am strict by today's standards. I know that I am not a perfect parent. I just try to do the best I can, and teach my children to be the best they can be, which is not some spoiled brat screaming because they can't have a lollypop. Or because they forgot their ballet shoes and Mom won't skip brothers baseball practice to go get them. I don't let my children watch useless dribble on television. It doesn't stimulate their brains and I am probably raising two geniuses, so I do need to focus on their learning in every aspect of their lives. I just really appreciate someone noticing that I try to do the best I can by my kids. It is a nice change from hearing what a failure I am as a parent and how I am permanently hurting them by expecting them to behave.

It seems to me that if parents fail to teach the lesson that every action has consequences, everything else they do is futile.

I think that women who kill their children ought to have to suffer the same death as the poor children did when they killed them. They should have to look into their eyes and say "I am going to kill you now". They are filled with demonic spirits to even think about doing this and I just cannot understand this to save my life. Where did all the love go? Where did all the committment go when they gave birth to them? I know, the love and committment just went out the window when they had to put someone else first instead of themselves......