| THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016). |
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If you don't want pesticides to be used, eating meat isn't the answer. They'll only stop using pesticides when it becomes profitable, so buy organic when you can. |
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Sub-se-dized. Because it's an American thing to do, the government keeps the price of beef down so places like McDonalds can afford to sell all those hamburgers for cheap. Factory farms are fine, but on the other hand, (family) cattle ranchers are practically dirt poor, the only time they ever taste beef is if a cow falls and injures itself to the point that it won't make it to market. All cattle have their grazing supplemented by a meal made af harvested grain, hormones, sometimes even dead cattle sheep etc for protein. Dairy cows included. If you want to avaoid harvesting machinery at it's most obstructive, hormones and just eat healthy tasty food, I suggest going to your local farmer's market to pick up veggies and fruit. The majority of this stuff is healthier (than what you'd find at Safeway) tastes better and you're supporting family farms to continue being good to the environment (rather than the factory farm that'd set up shop on the same land if they fail. If you're worried about protein, get a hutch and raise a few chicks or ducklings. They'll run around your yard, fertilize your lawn (all natural!) eat bugs (ever seen a duck go after a moth? A riot!) and eventually lay eggs. You can also butcher them later on if you want. They'll eat corn, alphalpha, just about any type of small seed or grain, or commercially made poultry feed which is fairly inexpensive. |
i know some "family" cattle ranchers. they do fine. most agriculture in the US is subsidized. i agree it is unfair. but it won't stop me from eating. and i don't mind killing things for my food. |
Man is the apex predator, its not my fault cows didn't invent guns first. So while not adding any new info to the fray, im sure i pissed someone off so, have at'r |
It was pretty interesting, especially when they got into the drugs that cows are supplied. Ah, New Zealand Beef and Lamb. Home grown, raised on grass. No added chemicals. Tasty. |
We raised our cattle and other meat animals on fresh green grass. We didn't give them hormones. They were treated for disease individually. Butchered in a humane manner. I would be more responsive to eating them. * * * * * I like my vegetables. |
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mm. |
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lambs have by far the most divine tasting animal flesh. i could eat it every day and never tire of the taste. i don't the think the problem is agriculture. the problem is monoculture. i'd say 90% of the meat/chicken i buy is organic or free-range. the rest is tuna fish, sausage, deli meat, and other processed stuff. it's hella expensive, but worth it. i don't need any foreign hormones cruising around in my system. i'm crazy enough as it is. |
And, as long as we're on a tirade for the unjustness of what individual farmers have to endure, I feel it only right to speak up for the poor,hungry and in desperate need of dental repairs, poppy farmers. They get like $30.00 for their whole crop, and by the time it hits the streets here, its worth about a quatrillion dollars. Well, that just doesn't seem fair. |
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They pay them not to grow crops or raise cattle. That keeps the prices higher not lower. |
By buying organic, you still ingest a certain degree of imputities, but no more than what was there before. No additional pesticides or hormones, not free of these things. No GMOs either. There's also transitional organic, vegetables grown under organic guidelines and procedures but on land that was previously treated with pesticide and fertilizer; I think they have to grow organically for five years before they can achieve official "organic" status. Organic is more than just letting nature do its thing, its also about the people employed by a farm. They must be paid a certain wage or above, with benefits. If you respect workers rights it's just one more reason to support organic. |
"Organic is more than just letting nature do its thing, its also about the people employed by a farm. They must be paid a certain wage or above, with benefits." Im not sure the FDA says anything about this in its determination of who can use the "Organic" label and who can't. |
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i'm going to stay out of this discussion, lest i come off as rabid. |
Meat doesn't gross me out at all. It's blood. If I see blood and it's not mine, I freak. I've almost gone down a couple of times, and it's one reason why I don't want to be a grocery cashier. I'm pretty sure anyhow, about the workers in relation to Organic. Many smaller places can't officially use Organic because of one reason or another. I need to read about it. |
It goes on to say "Many commenters asked the National Organic Program to develop fair labor practice standards as a part of the final rule. We have not adopted these comments. Other statutes cover labor and worker safety standards. The Act does not provide the authority to include them in these regulations. However, these regulations do not prohibit certifying agents from developing a voluntary certification program, seperate from organic certification, that address fair labor and worker safety standards." As I understand it, each state has "certifying agents" verifying the federal standard. States and subsequently "certifying agents" may have additional qualifications. So its possible Oregon may have some sort of clause about workers' rights, but the national standard does not. |
It just looked like a little person shaped bird, and I dunno, my mind went splat and a two second job took me ten minutes. Stupid bird. I loved that book Aggie-tha. I didn't think I would, but I found all that American meat treatment stuff quite interesting. |
first, there is a huge difference between purposefully breeding into existence 6 billion (or, their quote 8+ billion) animals for the express purpose of torturing and killing them and the unintended killing (or as the article said, also the MIGRATION - that's how they got their numbers so high) of field mice for agriculture. now, i don't want to underestimate the lives of these mice, this guy is making his case based on a predicted number of mice killed if all this land was converted to support a vegan diet. currently, all this land they are talking about is used to support an animal-based diet. it's the cows, etc. who eat most of the corn and soybeans grown in this country. so an animal-based diet is actually killing the 8+ billion meat animals plus a portion of the 1+ billion mice already. also, their final equations for numbers of animals killed entail a dramatic shift in the way that food animals are raised and does not take into account the current reality of the farm industry - factory farms. and all of this number-crunching is based on a utilitarian calculus that just tries to add up the number of animals that may or may not be killed (based on a shift in meat production, that is unlikely to happen, and on a major shift in agricultural production and practices, that also is unlikely to happen). and he completely disregards most vegetarian critiques of the meat industry itself. many vegetarians do not use (that interpretation of) utilitarianism when making their claims - i mean, i'm not a vegetarian, but as far as i can see, political or moral vegetarianism isn't about moral equivalents of animal life. and my guess is that most vegetarians do not believe that the entire US should shift to a vegetarian diet tomorrow in favor of huge agriculture. so, that's what i have to say about that! now, pass the A1. |
i'm going to houston's and i'm going to get me some chilaen sea bass before them motherfuckers go 'stinct |
There really isn't any problem with eating animals. They're tasty, high in protein, and all that fun stuff. However, there is a problem with the American meat and dairy industry. No animal should live a life of abuse and fear to satisfy my carnal needs. If I had enough land, I would totally be raising/slaughtering my own animals, which is the ideal way to go. However, that's not an option for everyone. It would be nice to see a reform in the meat/dairy industry so that the stuff you get all packaged in the supermarket lived a happier, fuller life, and was slaughtered humanely. There was a really interesting article in the New York Times Magazine a few months back talking about sustainable meat/vegetable farms and how they can, and do, work on a large scale. If I can find it, I'll link to the goodness. Now that the food pyramid has been turned all upside down and stuff, I'm not sure what the "right" thing to eat anymore is. All I know is that I like pasta. And I do wish people would eat a little less meat, but hey, I'm not anybody's mother. |
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it was called "Power Steer" by Michael Pollan who wrote that article in the times. he's written lots of really good stuff about agriculture, organic growing, and the meat industry: http://www.nelivestockalliance.org/news/nytimes33102.shtml (Power Steer article) http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/10/magazine/10ANIMAL.html http://www.mindfully.org/Food/Organic-Industrial-Complex.htm he also wrote The Botany of Desire, which is a great read. |
I liked the organic industrial complex article, as well. He hit the nail on the head with the whole organic labeling thing--that we make up most of the label to suit our desires. Buying from local farms is probably the best option. But not, as we know, an option for everyone... |
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btw, i heard houston's has like the best prime rib ever. |
on the bone! always a plus. my favorite around here is still fogo de chao. |
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the opposite of what you're thinking. |
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he's right, you know. |