Terrorists or Freedom Fighters?


sorabji.com: The Stalking Post: Terrorists or Freedom Fighters?
THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016).

By patrick on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 01:47 pm:


By eri on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 01:56 pm:

    I didn't read the whole thing. Not enough coffee yet, but to me I got the impression that we (meaning America) are contradicting ourselves. I mean, we go in to Iraq to get rid of these "terrorist groups" and here it is we have one and not only do we leave them there, but we leave them with their weapons and say it's all good cuz they are only going to use it to defend themselves. If we were truly going there to get rid of these groups then why would we leave them there, with their weapons and just sign a "treaty" so to speak? I don't get it.

    Not that I am advocating wiping out (bombing and shooting to death) every single person who is involved in this, but still, I thought the point was to remove their power and by leaving them with their weapons, isn't that leaving them the power we were supposed to be ridding the world of in the first place?


By patrick on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 02:00 pm:

    we are leaving them with their weapons hoping they will use them against the Iranian government. They are our next "Freedom Fighters" or next Northern Alliance or next Kurdish Rebels.


By eri on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 02:25 pm:

    Isn't using "terrorists" to help us win our "War on Terror" doing exactly what we are claiming the other countries are doing? Isn't it helping to support terrorist groups rather than getting rid of them? Doesn't that make us just as bad as those we are condemning?

    Sorry, I know this doesn't sound much like me, and it probably doesn't make much sense but it is what is coming out of the top of my brain as I sit in my cave!


By patrick on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 02:37 pm:

    what do you think some of us have been saying for nearly 2 years now?


By eri on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 02:45 pm:

    I know that you have been saying that we are the terrorists by our actions just as much as they are and on some things I agreed and on others I had to see it to believe it.

    I guess my thing is that I am a little pissed about saying one thing and doing another, doing the exact same thing you condemn. I hate hypocracy and I think that is exactly what this is. I think it is total horseshit.

    If we are defending ourselves against "terrorism" then why are we leaving "terrorists" in power? I mean isn't that opening the door and putting out a welcome mat for a repeat of 9/11? Standing at the door with a drink to hand them saying "Come on in, that party's just getting started"?


By patrick on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 02:56 pm:

    "I know that you have been saying that we are the terrorists by our actions just as much as they are and on some things I agreed and on others I had to see it to believe it."

    thats not what exactly i meant eri.


    supporting forces that serve our political interests.


    there is no war against terrorism. thats a bunch of shit. there's a 'war against armed groups that use terrorism against out geopolitical interests' but not a war on terrorism itself. we train and employ americans and foreigners in terrorist, guerilla tactics...so the idea of war on terrorism is an idiotic one.

    al Qaida, at one point were just like the Northern Alliance, Kurdish rebel forces, PUK, the Kosovo/Albanian whatever they were called...that is to say, they served us in seeking certain geo political interests. But at one point, things backfired.

    But in essence, yes....there's all kinds of hypocrisy and bullshit that this story brings. Its not a new story though, so take your pick.

    We say one thing and do another, as a country, all the fucking time.





By USA on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 03:12 pm:

    **************************************************
    ATTENTION: ARM CHAIR GENERALS AND STRATEGISTS
    **************************************************

    YOU ONLY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE ALLOWED TO KNOW.

    YOU MAY CARY ON
    **************************************************


By Spider on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 03:13 pm:

    And people say typos don't matter.


By eri on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 03:24 pm:

    Sorry if I oversimplified what you have been trying to say. I hope I didn't offend you. I wasn't trying to.

    I know that we aren't actually fighting a "war on terrorism", and that a lot of it has to do with geo-political positioning and resources and how much control we have over cerain areas of the country.

    We say it is a "war on terrorism" and that is where I find the hypocracy. If it is a war on terrorism then you don't leave terrorist groups in power, right?

    I guess right now I am getting really tired of saying one thing and doing another. I strive to be as honest as I possibly can at all times and this game goes against a lot that I believe in, but I don't see anything I can do about it. It's kinda like just the way it is and I need to deal with that and learn to accept it, but I don't want to deal with it or accept it. So I am feeling futility on top of being fucking annoyed and feeling betrayed.

    Am I really that odd that I try to stick to my priciples? To have my actions show what I believe in? Then again, maybe I am just weird to have principles and beliefs to begin with. I have noticed a serious lack of honesty everywhere I turn, not just the government but people in general, a lack of ethics, and nobody fucking cares as long as it helps them achieve their own personal goals. Boy, it sounds like I am describing something other than the people I know. It makes me annoyed as hell to see so many people not give a shit about anything but themselves.

    OK I am ranting, but I think you are understanding what I am trying to say (though I am not saying it very well). I have a feeling you will get my point, so I will quit ranting now, cuz I could keep going for a long damned time.

    Also, Patrick, thank you for not putting something like "I told you so" and getting all superior with me. I was expecting it, but hoping you wouldn't do that. So thank you for not getting uppity with me, when it was probably pretty easy for you to do exactly that. I appreciate it.


By patrick on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 03:29 pm:

    oh no. how can i get uppity.

    im basking in the fact the colonel spunk has a flaming libbie living with him.


By eri on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 03:39 pm:

    I still find that funny as hell. I mean, I despise most of the liberal hollywood idiots out there talking shit and annoying my ass. In my life I have never known any liberal voters who weren't worthless pieces of human trash (I can still get uppity myself about some things)on a face to face level. I found them hard to understand and infuriating to deal with and for the most part I still do.

    I just have never thought of myself as a flaming libbie before and wonder why people look at me like one or think that I am one? A lot of what the liberal people tell me is liberal thinking are things that I learned from conservatives. Sometimes I think that both sides have the same goals in mind and in heart but disagree on how to get there.

    I still agree with Spunk on many things as he agrees with me on any things and our differences are based mostly on how we deal with the futility and what is the best way to do that? How do we overcome our let downs and still do what is right? But then again, we also tend to disagree on what is right sometimes (i.e. SUV's and consumerism). But it doesn't seem to really effect our relationship or how we feel about each other. It would be fucking boring indeed if we agreed on everything.


By semillama on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 04:10 pm:

    I don't you can judge liberals by either hollywood actors (it seems that the most potent recipe for asshole is hollywood+politics, regardless of viewpoint) or by what the conservatives say about them. And there are a lot of values that most Amercian liberals and conservatives probably share. It's not a total opposition of one vs. the other.
    I don't think you're a FLAMING liberal but if i had to be black and white about it, I would put you down on the liberal side of things.

    Remember, if it weren't for liberal thinking, Elizabeth Dole probably wouldn't be a Republican Senator right now (nor would Hillary CLinton for that matter)!


By eri on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 04:19 pm:

    But Hillary Clinton isn't a republican senator :)

    I am just trying to figure out what it is about me that people think is liberal when I think of myself as conservative. Is it the fact that I don't practice the same amount of intolerance over certain things that maybe my parents do, or christian churches teach? I just don't get it, is all. No big deal.

    I also often get told how "right wing" I am, which I don't understand either, but oh well, there is a lot that I don't understand.


By spunky on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 04:21 pm:

    he was trying to allude that hillary is swilling with the NY Republican Swine right now.


By eri on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 04:28 pm:

    I was just trying to make a joke on his joke. I guess it wasn't obvious.


By spunky on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 04:41 pm:

    nah, i guess i am just too dumb to get it.


By spunky on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 05:25 pm:

    I don't care.
    Flaming lib or not, I could not love her anymore.


By eri on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 05:28 pm:

    He doesn't love me anymore!!!!! What do I do with that one?


By kazoo on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 05:32 pm:

    again with the typos


By spunky on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 05:39 pm:

    byte me and my big ass typos!


By kazoo on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 05:42 pm:

    Spunkem, I hope you don't think I was making fun of you, I was reiterating what Spider said earlier about typos not mattering.


By Rowlf on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 05:49 pm:

    anyone see the Dubya vs. Dubya debate on Jon Stewart last night.. while a few moments were just Limbaugh/Weird Al esque interview clip jokes, the rest, if it was seen by enough people, really made him look like the hypocrite he is..

    normally you see politicians say one thing and do another (or nothing), its rare you can catch them saying one thing and then doing a complete 180, about issues of the utmost importance...

    make sure you hit the Daily Show site in a couple days to watch the clip when its up


By Antigone on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 05:57 pm:

    Quit your fuckin' whining, spunk. You dug your own stupid hole, now go lie in it.

    This is a free market chat board. If you can't hack it, fuckin' leave.


By semillama on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 05:59 pm:

    huh. sounds fun. Actually, i was only referring to Hillary as a female senator. I really don't know how much of a republican she really is. or whatever. Maybe i should read the memoir and find out!

    What's up with writing your memoirs when you're just starting your career as an elected official?


By eri on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 06:02 pm:

    I wondered about the memoir thing myself. I thought your memoirs were something you wrote recollecting things about your life and therefore you had to have lived most of it already, not something you did when you first start on your career path.


By patrick on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 06:16 pm:

    "Maybe i should read the memoir and find out!"

    have you lost your mind sem?


    your hands, eyes and mind have better places to be....like down kazoo's bloomers.


By spunky on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 06:20 pm:

    Honey, Looks like Alabama had a Quake.

    It was 155 NNE of Montgomery.
    Kaz, did you feel it?


By semillama on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 10:06 am:

    Patrick- Have you lost your ability to detect a sarcastic comment?

    Although I agree with the last statement.

    Alabama also just voted to keep vibrators illegal.


By kazoo on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 11:26 am:

    I felt it. I thought there were rats in my heater.


By patrick on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 12:34 pm:

    either that or your sarcasm needs polishing.

    sometimes i hear your voice in a really good guy kinda way and that remark came across as such.


By patrick on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 12:35 pm:

    vibrators are illegal in alabama?

    "I felt it. I thought there were rats in my heater."


    something about this struck me as amusing.


By semillama on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 12:37 pm:

    If my sarcasm was polished anymore, it would blind you with scintillating BRILLIANCE, EYIYIYIYIYIYI!


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