| THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016). |
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The real hero behind the 'bravery' of Private Jessica By Julian Coman (Filed: 27/07/2003) America's most famous woman soldier owes her fame to a case of mistaken identity, reports Julian Coman in Washington As she watched Private Jessica Lynch's emotional homecoming on television last week, Arlene Walters struggled to suppress her growing anger. For millions of Americans, Pte Lynch's first faltering steps in her home town of Elizabeth, West Virginia, were a moment of high emotion, a happy ending to one of the darkest incidents of the Iraq war. For Mrs Walters, however, the standing ovation and praise lavished on the young woman soldier, who was captured by Iraqi forces and later freed in a dramatic American raid, served only to highlight the contrasting treatment of her dead son, who fought in the same unit. It was, fellow soldiers have told her, Sgt Donald Walters who performed many of the heroics attributed to Pte Lynch in the fanfare of publicity designed to lift the nation's morale, and Sgt Walters who was killed after mounting a lone stand against the Iraqis who ambushed their convoy of maintenance vehicles near Nasiriyah. Yet few, if any, of the Americans watching Pte Lynch's homecoming last week have even heard her son's name. "The military tell us that everyone who was in her unit was a hero," Mrs Walters told The Telegraph. "In fact they have singled out Jessica Lynch as the hero, and they are not giving the recognition to my son that he deserves. "The fighter that they thought was Jessica Lynch was Donald. When he was found he had two stab wounds in the abdomen, and he'd been shot once in the right leg and twice in the back. And he'd emptied his rounds of ammunition. Just like they said Jessica had done at first." Sgt Walters, a 33-year-old military cook from Oregon, blond and slim but not a photogenic female warrior, had been serving with the ill-fated 507th Maintenance Unit, in which Jessica Lynch was a supply clerk. In the days following the elaborately staged rescue of Pte Lynch from her hospital ward on April 1, a blizzard of American media reports told how the soldier had exhausted all her ammunition before capture, in an isolated and brave "fight to the death". They suggested that it was only after a prolonged battle, in which she was shot and stabbed, that she was eventually taken prisoner. In all, 11 soldiers were killed and six captured. It subsequently emerged, however, that the young soldier's rifle had jammed and her injuries were caused by her lorry colliding with another vehicle as the convoy came under attack. Last week, with no fanfare, the US Army released a detailed report into the incident which makes it clear that a lone American fighter did, indeed, hold out against the Iraqis - but that the soldier was not Pte Lynch. It says that following the ambush, Sgt Walters may have been left behind, hiding beside a disabled tractor-trailer, as Iraqi troops closed in. The report confirms that he died of wounds identical to those first attributed to Pte Lynch. "There is some information to suggest that a US soldier, that could have been Walters, fought his way south of Highway 16 towards a canal and was killed in action. Sgt Walters was in fact killed at some point during this portion of the attack. The circumstances of his death cannot be conclusively determined." Fellow soldiers who witnessed the ambush have been less guarded. "One told me that if I read reports about a brave female soldier fighting, those reports were actually about Don," said Mrs Walters. "The information about what had happened had been taken by the military from intercepted Iraqi signals, and the gender had gotten mixed up. He was certain that the early reports had mixed up Jessica and Don." Mrs Walters and her husband are now struggling to persuade the US military to acknowledge fully their son's bravery. Sgt Walters has been posthumously awarded the bronze medal, but his relatives argue that higher honours are deserved. The army says the investigation into the incident is now closed. "I just can't imagine him being left out there in the desert alone," said Mrs Walters, who is still haunted by images of her son's lone stand. http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F07%2F27%2Fwjess27.xml&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=175814 "I'm not trying to take anything away from Jessica. We just want Don to get the credit he is entitled to for his bravery." She has her own theories about the Army's reluctance to give him due credit. "Perhaps the army don't want to admit to the fact that he was left behind in the desert to fight alone," she said. "It isn't a good news story." |
"Wanna hear a dark tale of "our troops?" How all the hoopla & sound bites & lofty pronouncements from President Bush are proving to be grimly false, beyond the frustrations and pains of the economy? What our noble leaders apparently think of most everyone under their headship who isn't a croney of some sort? Then crack this very hard nut. I have a nice girlfriend of sorts in the town where I live. This is a lively, intelligent, lovely woman who has a sharp mind and a great, dry wit. She likes my music and my writing and was introducing me to her friends, which is normally a good sign indeed. It was going well between us when she just plain fell over from Chron's, a nasty inflammatory bowel disorder that has waylaid her ever since. It pains me greatly to see her so pale and exasperated. She's a special find, but her health has left us in a space we'd both rather not inhabit. Still, we talk with a refreshing openness and hence this tale. She has a gorgeous daughter and handsome son who is in the Air Force. She has lived in both Germany and Jordan, where her ex-husband was stationed. She has lectured for the Red Cross and is solid military, the kind you'd hope would be the fabric of those upon whom we have classically depended so heavily at key times in history. She deserves my regard in this and yours as well. Her daughter is married to a man who is currently stationed in Iraq. Last week, he was 100 feet away from a friend who was killed in a firefight, the same one surrounding the capture of the Hussein brothers. He says that he and his fellow soldiers are now subsisting on one meal a day. I am fairly sure it is a high-calorie one, respecting the work load they face, but that's both suspect and insulting. His wife sends him packages to the best of her ability, but as you might imagine, she stays worried sick and expresses understandable concerns about his possible Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, as well as her own share in it. He is in a transport company, so every time they hear of a death, they feel the classic icy grip on their hearts, knowing that he could be anywhere in the country. The radical changes as the war has progressed have made it worse. Military families know what they have signed up for, but this time, the terms keep changing. The goals are vague. It smells bad. The soldiers generally have to sleep in what they call "graves", kept shallow because deeper structures simply collapse. Sand, you know. While no one would expect them to have feather beds out in the field, that's not only uncomfortable, but psychologically harsh. The "point system" of Vietnam, which rotated soliders OUT after a certain number of months, has been suspended. They have been told that they could be there as long as two years. This was shocking when they thought it was a 6-month job and their morale is dropping steadily. One soldier on TV pointed at a friend and said "He's a specialist trained to handle reconnissance and munitions and he's being made to stand here in this heat, directing traffic while kids throw rocks and cuss him. Morale? What's that?" You can buy a boom box or a large television from the rolling PX, but not soap. No problem, as they are not getting enough WATER (!) and aren't able to bathe often. It wasn't advertised as a trip to Cancun and no one expected that, but this is an environment where the daytime heat is at 130 degrees. They don't want candy bars; they literally ask family for panty hose and rubber bands so they can fashion shields that keep the sand out of their weapon barrels. As much as the war is about oil, its also about sand, which partly defines the madness and culture of the enemy, such as they are. Do we have no one in a high place with the sense to consider the damned SAND? That fundamental ignorance points to a lack of awareness and heart in more serious aspects of the situation. Is this any way to treat a soldier? What ever happened to giving "our boys/girls" the very best because they are putting themselves in harm's way? How is it that "we" can hand someone $30 MILLION dollars for turning in Saddam's sadistic sons, but our soldiers can't at least be rotated to the back lines for a break and a decent shower? And now there is talk of sending MORE to Africa. I have also read nothing about Kosovo leveling out. Is this making anyone's life better, or really "stabilizing" places that refuse to stabilize? Are we ready for a possible draft when the existing campaigns are so varied and questionable that they have used up all standing forces? At its very root, it all shows the same contempt for those who put their lives on the line for "our great nation" that we are seeing as the Bush administration dispenses with environmental considerations for preserved lands, pollution controls and the very freedoms they honk about in their speeches. I obey the law, but I have no real respect for it, because The Law is an increasingly alien thing that trounces the innocent as much as not, created and administered by the seemingly soulless. I wish it was different, because I have encountered some solid police officers who gave the badge a good name, but the wormy backroom deals and gauzy rationale for doing startling things is a poor framework upon which to base some flapping idea of "patriotism." These days, I think a patriot is someone who doesn't read the newspapers. I don't know everything, hell no. I can see that we have capable military, CIA and FBI members doing the footwork, capturing bad guys, keeping the faith. I know we are well-protected from horrific things that are hard to face, things we don't need to know, things we hire or elect hopefully strong, dedicated people to handle. I am in no way lacking in respect for someone who commits themselves to the Larger Things. Only a damned fool wallows in "liberal" daydreams and rancor without regard. The same is true of the hard-nosed "conservatives" who view everything from the vantage point of the fist and the self-righteous overlook that dismisses poor decisions and needless human misery. But somewhere, there needs to be a middle, some sense of pragmatism that says while we will stand for and pursue THIS, we will also draw a line where diminishing returns and the longer view lead us to say "enough." Remember how much statesmanship we DON'T get from Congress or the President the next time anyone mentions Bechtel, jobs being shipped overseas, alleged threats from without or tax credits that no one can feel because they don't even cover a month's rent. Remember Ashcroft's nephew being caught with 60 marijuana plants and let off with 3 years' probation when for anyone who has no highly-placed relatives, FIFTY plants carries a mandatory federal prison sentence. Remember Bush publically stating that he would work until everyone who wanted a job could find one...and then left for a 29-day vacation on his ranch. Remember his public imam-in-a suit statement that "GOD told me to deal with the Middle East problem." When a public figure claims that God "told" him or her to do a thing, I hear the sound of extremely large vampire bats flapping overhead. Most of all, remember my friend's son-in-law in a shallow foxhole, trying to sleep in a bitter cold that rivals the 130-degree heat of the day, rarely able to bathe and hustling around in heavy Kevlar, toting a rifle, on one meal a day, while the children of the conquered throw rocks at them. It tells a dark tale in 20-foot-high neon letters." DAMN I wish I could write like that. |
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And before it oozes out of your mouth, YES, I do think Iraq was a DIRECT threat to the United States. After 911, this country cannot afford wait until AFTER we are hit again. Unless you want NY to glow in the dark. |
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Sort of what some of us have been saying all along. Concerned American doens't seem to be much into supporting the troops lately. Plus, I don't think you are concerned enough about the government's handling of foreign policy, not to mention domestic policy, as witnessed by the pentagon's recent stupidity in the terrorism futures trading deal, or the recent House vote to not approve a measure by Rep. David Obey (D-Wis)(nice guy, met him once) to give $50 million to the TSA so they could avoid cutting the number of air marshalls (when we are told that there is a threat of more airplane suicide attacks). The vote was against this on party lines, so that shows you how tough on terrorism and domestic security the Republicans are. Fortunately, the scorn heaped on them for this caused them to reverse their decision and allow the TSA to pay for overnight stays in hotels for air marshalls. If we can spend $1 billion a week in Iraq, what's $50 million dollars for US? |
there's absolutely no logic or sense in this statement spunk. A) its a movie B) while noted for its realism, its still a movie C) comparing D-Day to the current occupation is Iraq is downright retarded. There's no comparison. try again |
Vietnam's "point system" has actually been criticized as one of the major causes of the low morale during that war, believe it or not. For one thing, because people in a platoon did not rotate out at the same time, you were constantly replacing seasoned soldiers with new guys who put the rest of the platoon at risk. The system should have allowed the same groups of guys to train, fly in, fight, and fly out together. That "saving Private Ryan" comment was completely off the wall. |
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if its not, sorry, but me thinks it is. |
maybe. he (or she) capitalized all the words spunk would for emphasis. it takes his view point almost precisely. and we all know how spunk likes to "mask" his posts with such psuedonyms. id bet money it is him. |
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I was looking at the verbage (before I put my post) and it just doesn't sound like him. Besides, if it was him, wouldn't he have replied to your post by now? |
I am Batman. Can somebody PLEASE tell me what Bush is doing in this picture? |
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Sgt. Naviguesser, USMC, has been over there in the sandbox for quite a little while now and we're pleased and happy to say that he's doing very well indeed. Well, except for the fact that he's more than just a little bit pissed off, and we can't blame him one little bit. And no, you drooling Lefty Fuckwits, he's not pissed off the way your beloved "press" wants us to believe, oh no. He's pissed off at you and your lying media. And there are only two words that serve to describe adequately what pissing a Marine off amounts to: Big Mistake. But back to Sgt. Naviguesser. He's sent us a GREAT letter about just what actually goes on in Iraq right now, as seen from the actual trenches, rather than from some nice air conditioned news room on the Left Coast. We'll leave the floor to Sgt. Naviguesser now, and we assure you that it is worth every damn second you're about to invest in reading it. Of course, you could always choose to rely on some blow-dried babboon from the Pravda on the Hudson to give you the "straight dope"... It's a free country, after all. Take it away, Sgt., and SEMPER FI!: |
Grab yourself a cup of coffee, a beer, or whatever floats your boat. I, for one, am pining for a Jim Beam and some crushed ice, but unfortunately that isn’t going to happen anytime soon. Take a quick restroom break. This is going to take a while. Be forewarned, it’s a long read, but it isn’t a Bill Whittle piece. Expect digressions, unfinished thoughts, and polysyllabic profanities aplenty. It’s a true challenge for me to begin writing without rambling, blundering around until I find a starting point; keeping myself from constantly digressing is a far tougher chore. I’ll make the obvious play and tell you it’s hot. Extremely hot. Spelled S-U-R-F-A-C-E O-F T-H-E M-O-T-H-E-R-F-U-C-K-I-N-G S-U-N H-O-T. There was a recent Fox News headline about a deadly heat wave in Arizona, windshields cracking and falling out, dogs burning the pads of their feet, that sort of shit. At only 117 degrees. Average daily temp here is reported as 117, but that doesn’t take into account actually being in the sun. Hold a thermometer in your hand out in the open for two minutes and watch how quickly the mercury soars toward 130. We’ve spent forty years fighting wars in fetid jungles and searing deserts. Why can’t we invade a nice, cool, temperate country for once? France, anyone? Live in a GP tent, minus the luxury of a consistently functional air conditioner, it pushes 140. Human shields should burst into flames at 140, (one can always hope). Come to think of it, that’s a worthy subject for an 8th-grade science project. Anyone care to let their kids give it a shot? I’m sure I can find and chloroform some patchouli-scented lab rats for them to play with. Unfortunately, those tin-pot camel-fucking dictator apologists mysteriously reappeared at home before the shooting started. Worse, I’ve heard that some of those clowns want to return to “watchdog” our troops, who, media smearing campaign aside, are doing a damned fine job in the face of constant supply shortages, literal snail mail, constantly changing homecoming schedules, and asinine second-guessing by armchair generals, smirking reporters, and Democratic presidential hopefuls seeking a coherent, viable ’04 campaign issue. |
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You gotta ask nicely. How do you get your names to start in lower case? |
I challenge you to READ the ENTIRE letter BEFORE responding. |
We soldiers and Marines haven’t busted our asses for the last, gee, nearly two years to be second-guessed by some trust-funded, Birkenstock-shod, brain-bereft academic fuckheads who haven’t the foggiest idea of the definition of loyalty, much less hard work or personal hygiene. The Fascist-enablers are blissfully ignorant of who this country’s “best and brightest” really are, and scoff at the mere thought that the “baby-killers”, the “jackbooted thugs”, the “fascists” in torn, dirty desert utilities busting their asses to put Iraq back together, are the ones carrying the torch for our generation. The peaceniks are probably beside themselves, wetting their pants, absolutely pissed off that the soldiers and Marines they despise out here are succeeding and, Oh The Horror, enjoying the respect and admiration of a grateful nation. We are up against a culture that has been bred and raised (thank you, public schools) to loathe not only our country and its fighting men, but also the straightforward, clear-cut, unambiguous ideals they stand for. You know, the whole freedom and free enterprise bit that throws today’s modern, fashionable young socialists into bouts of nervous twitching and incoherent screeching on Indymedia. It has been argued by some writers that there is an ever-widening gulf between the military and civilians. Those who posit this, and quote it as fact, must either a) live on another fucking planet, or b) live in a major coastal city (which amounts to the same anyway) where attitudes are largely set against us in the first place. In Flyover Country, I have hardly ever felt out of place or distant from the local populace. I happen to believe that the widening gulf that DOES exist is that between the teeming population centers and the rest of the country. Remember seeing the election map from 2000? The coasts out of touch with the heartland? Vietnam is behind us; we have risen from the shallow grave the radical Left dumped us in thirty years ago to become the most professional, highly trained, and dedicated warriors ever to raise our banners on foreign soil. We have put up with ton upon metric ton of utter bullshit, and will tolerate more, until our job is done. No “Quagmire”-parroting reporter, no arrogant Berkeley-(in)bred activist, no Ba’athist holdout can stop us. Much has been made of several 3rd ID soldiers on record complaining about the hardships here. Reporters have failed to grasp that men in uniform ALWAYS complain. Shitty food, no beer, families 7000 miles away, no air conditioners, that sort of thing. You want sour grapes, we have vats full of them. We bitch a lot, but we clench our jaws and do the damn job; it isn’t a warning sign that our morale is tanking and that the sky is falling over the “quagmire” we’ve “blundered” into. We don’t need, much less want, your feigned sympathy, you camera-toting, blow-dried, manicured pricks. Don’t you have car chases and Qwik-E-Mart holdups to cover? Sympathy with our plight would be welcome if it didn’t reek of a political agenda. I’ve seen solicitude for our plight and us when, and only when, the media and the Donks think they have our Commander-in-Chief by the balls. We “bog down” to rest and refuel within sight of Baghdad; the howling Moonbats squeal in delight at a perceived golden opportunity to bend us over the barrel. A week later, Saddam’s most prominent statue is torn down and dragged through the streets, at which point they mumble to themselves and stare at their shoes. A vastly hyperbolized museum looting story helps them rodeo-clown attention away from our glory-fest. Bush throws down a gauntlet by landing, at unbelievable peril, on the deck of one of his Navy’s carriers; they piss and moan and lament his recklessness. Now, every time a soldier is killed by a sniper’s bullet, an RPG from a rooftop, or a roadside bomb, the press giddily reports, “Today the **th soldier to be killed since President Bush declared an end to hostilities on May 1st (emphasis mine) died in a (shooting) (bombing) (ambush). Headlines are as canned as New York Times obituaries. Equally appalling, with that preface to casualty reports, the media are shamelessly grinding twisted political axes with the bones of our brothers. Reporters wonder why we stinky-palm them. Now, men are dying to hold this country together, in small numbers yet each irreplaceable beyond all cost, and the dipshits with the cameras and the mikes roll out the “quagmire” playbook again. Hell, now that we’ve offed Uday and Qusay, all you hear is, “Why didn’t you arrest them?” How utterly pathetic. Particularly in the case of Charles Rangel (D-Bellevue). That excuse for a legislator has the gall to propose a reinstitution of the draft, based solely on racial motives tainted by false data, and then months later to call the demise of U. and Q. an “assassination”. Put him in the recall bin with Gov. Whatshisface, that squirrelly sonofabitch on the Left Coast with the financial management problems. You know a politician is worthless when Larry Flynt considers running for his soon-to-be vacated office. The Armed Forces been tasked with a tall order, keeping this country from flying apart at the seams; we receive extremely short shrift for doing so. The press plasters its front pages with stories of tanking morale; discontent in the ranks; an untenable peace; a Vietcong-esque Guerrilla war in the making. Journalists circle about like buzzards, waiting gleefully in the wings to sign our toe tags, live and in color. They don’t know us, nor do they understand the situation, well enough to see the reality that lies beyond their lower colons. They have failed miserably to grasp that their irresponsible coverage is only encouraging further attacks, or to put it bluntly, (as I prefer): THEY ARE PROVIDING AID AND COMFORT TO OUR ENEMIES. I need to hit the books and look it up, but I am pretty damned sure that that makes them TRAITORS. By unleashing a tidal wave of coverage on each and every attack, they encourage our enemies to hit again and again, confident in their own minds that the constant screeching and bleating in the press will unnerve and worry our families to no end, and little by little dent our national resolve to keep up the fight. At which point they hope internal pressures will cause us to pull our presence out and let a reconstituted Ba’ath flood back into the vacuum, much like the endgame in Vietnam. Most of us, those blessed enough to live in Flyover Country, know this to be total bullshit. We finish what we start, and we’re glad to do it, politicians and protesters or no. Don’t even try to pass that thought in the Gore States. You’ll be bound, gagged, and institutionalized for saying that the quagmire isn’t before your eyes, as palpable as your morning coffee or the computer monitor you stare into now. For sheer believability, it’s up there with Barney, the Toothfairy, and Santa Claus. Of course, those blue patches on the map are where they hold the keys to all the doors behind which information is vetted, edited, embellished, fabricated, and reprocessed, much like an Oscar Meyer frank, into the short, meaningless sound bites that end up on the six o’clock news. Speaking of gathering and processing information, I will say, up front, that I don’t believe embedded reporters were a bright idea. Geraldo Rivera’s acts of idiocy provided a shining example of irresponsible battlefield reporting, but thankfully instances like that weren’t common. It was awfully polite and patient of us to be open and up front with reporters, but it went too far and, besides, they didn’t have a fucking constitutional right to be there, de-constructing our every move and piss-break along the way. The arrangement only facilitated their round-the-clock coverage and mad dash for ratings. It led, from what I saw, to many, many stories that had to be retracted or seriously amended when the press took the first slivers of incomplete information and ran with them, only to stand, embarrassed, in front of the cameras hours later, as they tried to change their stories while the big picture became clearer. Some reporters (Arnett and Fisk come to mind with little effort) never bothered with accuracy or truth, and became the Iraqi Information Ministry’s propaganda whores. Those weren’t sweat stains on Arnett’s shirt in front of the cameras. It wasn’t milk, either. Many times, so it seemed, the “Breaking News” and “News Alerts” lines that popped up with annoying frequency were little more than wild-assed rumors and incomplete information. If the news agencies had fielded fewer reporters, and made them stay in the Rear with the Gear, they could have had all the time in the world to check their facts and get their shit together before running stories that would have necessitated sheepish retractions hours later. Sorry, folks, that’s my cynical 2 cents, take it any way you like. The newsies are doing such a wonderful job of making us responsible for problems we did not create, and somehow they expect us to fix all the damned boo-boos. Deficiencies in utility services, communications, unemployment, all that shit that you hear the whiners bleating about when they aren’t slamming the administration. Look, you socialist nanny state assholes, we aren’t social workers. Some of the locals are complaining, but you don’t see many of the whiners actually working to put their own country back in order. There are many Iraqis who are doing their best to pick up the pieces and make their land a better place, and they are doing the best job they can with what little is left after more than two decades of Ba’ath Party squandering. They aren’t waiting for State handouts, they’re seizing the initiative and accomplishing far more than many people here have in well over 20 years. I’m talking about policemen, former soldiers, doctors, and shopkeepers; the very Bourgeoisie the radical left despises, the hardworking, enterprising men and women who have been the very foundation and lifeblood of prosperous democracies throughout history. They’re all over the place here, and they will ultimately be this land’s political and economic salvation. Don’t give me any of that whiny bullshit about how we should clean up the mess, this place was a shambles when we got here. Much of this country’s infrastructure slipped through the cracks while Saddam and his late, unlamented offspring built lavish palaces and spent money earmarked for humanitarian aid on every luxury they could lay their blood-stained hands on. Time ran an article about deplorable conditions at Baghdad’s international airport, stories of looting and general wanton destruction of the airport. Much of the equipment at Baghdad International Airport is so old and dilapidated I’d be surprised if any of it has actually worked anytime in the past decade. Yeah, we pot-holed the runways with bombs aplenty, and a bunch of soldiers picked the duty-free store clean, (which in my opinion the boys fucking well earned) but the field has been repaired and it’s now in better shape than it has been in many years. Utilities? Go flying out here at night, you see mud hut villages that are as well-lit as any small town back home. I shit you not. If these dilapidated hamlets and villes have power, then the major cities can’t be in such poor shape. Many items the media reports as potential trouble must be viewed in the context of Iraq’s middle eastern neighbors. There are protests against the American occupiers. Big Fucking Deal. Only in Iraq are people assembling and protesting without being summarily dispersed, beaten, arrested, and/or imprisoned (See Iran). Also seen only in Iraq are hundreds of independent newspapers being printed and circulated absent the watchful, censoring eye of the state. Pro- or anti-coalition, they come off the presses and onto the streets without a Ba’athist Bureaucrat vetting them and shooting the dissenters. Iraq now has a fledgling government of its own, supervised of course, for the moment, but lacking crooked, Wahabbi-bribing royals and power-wielding theocrats. Sure, if you are in this country and physically attack soldiers and Marines, they will certainly detain you, and if you’re firing on them they will definitely cap you. That’s called self-defense, and it makes perfect sense if you reside anywhere outside the loony havens on our East and West Coasts. But of course, many of those assholes would rather see us die by the thousands than succeed at our efforts here. They can’t stand to watch the people they’ve been raised to loathe win an unprecedented victory and rightfully earn the support and respect of the nation. I love it. Soldiers and Marines are seen as positive role models and it makes the loony left shit bricks. This country was raped and pillaged for 2 ½ decades by Saddam, his now-defunct sons, and the Ba’ath Party. The bastards built themselves magnificent palaces, bought the priciest cars, the very best in food and wine, and spent less than the bare minimum on sustaining their people, even as sanctions tightened the country’s belt. Where was the indignation at the Iraqis’ plight then? Wait a minute. The cameras were fixed on wall-to-wall “No Blood for OOIIIIILLLLLLL” bullshit and airhead, mealy-mouthed celebrities running their mouths on subjects well beyond their collective depth (i.e. a 7-Eleven parking lot puddle). There was also the daily Kofi and Hans Happy Fun Hour at the UN, that theatre of the absurd where wrong magically becomes right and the most brutal dictatorships in the world are allowed to chair the Human Rights Commission. What a fucking sitcom. The UN is also that wonderful, happy place where countries with proven inabilities to defend themselves are not only voting, veto-power members of the Security Council, they get to tie it up with all kinds of “Fuck America” backbiting. Hey Jacques, Dominique, don’t bite the hands that freed you. And don’t stand idle when your nutless citizens deface the graves of the American heroes who spilled their blood, who forfeited their families and futures, to make sure that Horst Wessel didn’t remain long as your piss-puddle country’s national anthem. I hope you also like that tricolore that flies on your masts when you’re not hoisting white flags in the faces of invaders. We put it back up for you. These days, with all your synagogue bombings and anti-Israel sentiments, you seem better suited to those swastikas we drove out of your country for you nearly sixty years ago. Don’t bite the hands that keep you free either. We labor to make the world a safer place for our nation and its ideals, safer also for our friends abroad and for those who live under the boots of our enemies, yet the press tramples on us; they second- and third-guess our work; deem some to be heroes who do little while many who sacrifice all remain obscure and uncelebrated; lastly, they misquote, fabricate, deceive, and vilify us at will, while conveniently forgetting that we make possible their ability to shit on anyone and anything they see fit. Because of us, the press can live out their delusional fantasies of being a power unto themselves. Their “Le Etat, C’est Nous” megalomania is not amusing and I don’t believe I am alone in being utterly sick of it. Rudyard Kipling hit it on the head: Makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap. Thank you all for your patience, goodwill, and prayers for our safety and health. |
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"The peaceniks are probably beside themselves, wetting their pants, absolutely pissed off that the soldiers and Marines they despise out here are succeeding and, Oh The Horror, enjoying the respect and admiration of a grateful nation. We are up against a culture that has been bred and raised (thank you, public schools) to loathe not only our country and its fighting men, but also the straightforward, clear-cut, unambiguous ideals they stand for. You know, the whole freedom and free enterprise bit that throws today’s modern, fashionable young socialists into bouts of nervous twitching and incoherent screeching on Indymedia." It crossed the line into "foaming at the mouth" territory right there. My eyes rolled way back at the statement that our public schools are teaching children to loathe our country. Gimme a break. Also, I felt that the paragraph following that one contradicted the general attitude of the rest of the letter. |
But I have to disagree with you, however gently, on our children's education. There are efforts out there to make this country appear worse then it actually is. |
m'kay. It's spunk, then. |
(I can't think straight today, so pardon my clumsiness...) I think what that guy may be referring to is the change in teaching direction from what I imagine things were like in the '50s and '60s, when children were taught (I wasn't alive then so I'm making assumptions here) only about America's victories. When I was in grade school in the '80s, and in high school in the '90s, we were taught about the victories and the shameful moments -- the Trail of Tears, Jim Crowe, the internment of the Japanese during WWII, etc. That's not teaching us to loathe America, it's teaching us that life isn't a fairy tale, and no one and nothing is 100% on the side of Good. If anyone can't understand why this lesson is a good thing, he or she has the mental capacity of a small child. |
Spider, let me dig a little deeper about this. I cannot, having been out of school for over 20 years, cite specifics. |
It took me about five minutes to find out, too. But, don't worry. Your secret's safe with me. :) Jeez, man...First day on the job and you're already making posts? Even I waited a couple of weeks before I started posting from my current workplace. You must be really addicted... |
I flip flop on the school thing. I mean in some ways I see us teaching history with the victories and without, and sometimes I see total pro-america propaganda, especially in relation to our men and women fighting, and then there are the diversity classes they teach in kindergarten on up, so I think it goes both ways in our current educational system. There's some of both. I think in higher levels of education it depends more upon the teacher, and their views, and how they teach them, whether it leads to liberal or conservative, but in the lower grades I see both being taught. |
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"Huey" is full of shit, and his rant is chock-a-block with BS. As far as I know, I'm the only one on this board with military experience; in fact, I rejoined the military when I saw Iraq was going to go down. I figured since I supported knocking over the fascists, I should put my money where my mouth is and be willing to go over and help do it myself. This whole thread is emblamatic of why I left the board. It's just boring as hot fuck listening to the same four people rant self-righteously forty-seven times a day, saying the same idiocies over and over about things they know nothing about other than what the received party line is. The amount of original thought, or even just reasoned discourse, on this board since I first started posting in 1997 could fit on a floppy. I swing by every six months or so to see if anything's changed, and if the entries weren't dated, I couldn't tell today's from three years ago. Flame away.... |
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You mean you waited until it was a sure thing? Pussy. "This whole thread is emblamatic of why I left the board. It's just boring as hot fuck..." And it's boring reading what you think is boring. Just leave, you pinko commie faggot worthless piece of trash. |
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its odd because i remembered Markus alot differently. so i guess you have to have military experience to talk about military experience. you know he's probably right. i guess if "experience" was a qualifier for conversation this place would see a lot more metaphorical tumbleweed. |
I am enjoying the cave/in-law discussions and would prefer to leave it there for the moment. And I have no time at all at work right now to fart around here. |
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I still think it is Ronda londa ding dong. |
The ip that shows up here is probably their http proxy server or firewall/NAT server. So, does Ronda work at the same company? Ronda posted with ip's from Akron, OH. Does that ring a bell? |
I have already shown you all you need to know. Go forth and wreak havok. :) |
you mean glow MORE in the dark? do all radioactive isotopes glow in the dark? i'm serious. i don't know. |
This is wear I had to don protective gear to ward off the BS that was rising above my head. And I would submit that it's folks like that "Marine" (probably some dittohead sitting at home in a delusional fantasy -batman itself?) that truly hate America. Well at least the America where everyone is created and treated equal, where we aren't ashamed to admit our past wrongdoings, and where we are proud of the advances we have made, and when the government starts acting in a way that is against core American values of liberty and justice, we speak out. |
Wrong. What the fuck is a "dittohead"? Link to source |
I think she does. There are several travel teams that will be in Ohio one week and San Antonio, and then travel again to North Dakota, or Hawaii, or Germany, or wherever the fuck. Even the people assigned to the home office here in San Antonio don't usually stay here in San Antonio all of the time, same is true for any other satellite office. You seriously never know. That last post did look like something that Spunky would put though :) |
FYI, Naviguesser is slang for navigator, so it's not that "marine's" last name. I'm talked to and worked with a fair amount of Marines, and for the most part, they are nice folks, although a few are rabid assholes. Then there was the sergeant who told me he was finally ok with the idea that dinosaurs existed at a different time than human beings, because there was a worldwide flood prior to Noah's that wiped them out before God created humans...Still, nice guy. Batman, send me a postcard from Bitter Irrelevance when you get there. I hear the scenery's a bit dull and the food sucks, but at least the darkies and womenfolk know their place. I'll make sure to wave from the 21st century. |
I AM NOT SPUNK. I am BATMAN. Not BATWOMAN, so I am not Ronda. I do not know any spunk, nor do I have any inclination to meet anyone named after jism. And I want to make sure I understand this: Loyalty to country=Hating country? Fighting for country=Hating country Patriotism=Prejudism? Patriotism=19th century? What the hell is wrong with you? |
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and king arthur and beowolf and fairies wait, and koalas |
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I need a sarcasm-o-meter. |
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But not nearly so bad as Batman's wit. |
i can just imagine what it must look like. SORABJI LEFT TALKING POINTS BULLITEN: 1. If it has to do with the US Military it is EVIL. 2. If it has to do with GWB (always refered to in some derogratory manner) it is EVIL. 3. If the subject matter pertains to "morals" and "values" that were considered mainstream 50 years ago, it is OPPRESSIVE. 4. If a blogger is citing values or morals that can be in anyway considered "conservative", then refer to blogger as "dumb" "stupid" "ignorant" "backwater" "dimwitted" "racist" "biggoted" and/or "homophobic". Remeber, you are ENLIGHTENED. It is OK to to prejudiced against the UN-ENLIGHTENED. 5. If blogger makes any statements that appears to support the current president and/or military, and/or appears to take pride in the United States, and fails to denounce it as a facist regime, then see #4. 6. make sure you GANG UP on said blogger. 7. Confuse said blogger by calling them a socialist and/or communist. |
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I really do not understand this. Why would you think it is OK to leave SH in power, free to kill millions more, but it is wrong to take him out? Please, defend that. |
I read it. He/She has no proof whatsoever that the person credited with the letter is not a Sgt in the Marine Corpse. All he/she has is cynicism to judge by. And I can tell you with authority (we work with all services here, and most of us are retired military who have served overseas, some of us in conflicts) that the letter DOES reflect most attitudes of the military. They beleive, and it is SO EVIDENT here, that you guys sit here, on your soft chairs, in air conditioning, sucking down sodas or liquor second guessing them and instulting, and questioning their duty and honor. And guess what? all you have done is prove that perception CORRECT. PS, I am NOT in San Antonio. |
Why do you insist on insulting all conservatives by calling them cretins? Why do you insist on being an Al Qaeda operative? Why don't you renounce your Baath party membership? Have you told your parents that you're homosexual? |
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Great! You've pegged us. You're right. Declare victory and leave, please. |
what's wrong with you, can't you stand opposition? |
You obviously have not had enough time here to have a goddamned clue what you are talking about, or you haven't looked around enough. "make sure you GANG UP on said blogger." This is a given. When you are in a forum speaking to any group who does not agree with you on something....you will always be ganged up on. Get over it. Actually your lack of knowledge around here is a nice change. This is how it works. You want to talk as you have been, you will be ganged up on. Get over yourself and think before you speak. "Why do you insist on calling someone, anyone, who thinks that the US is NOT THE EVIL EMPIRE a cretin?" Do you really think this is the ONLY reason people are calling you a cretin? Seriously? You are making an ass out of yourself. "Why would you think it is OK to leave SH in power, free to kill millions more, but it is wrong to take him out? Please, defend that." No one has said that SH is Mr. Nice Guy. This is actually well covered, very well covered. We have discussed this so much it is like an old beaten dog. You want answers to these questions, well then, go ahead, look at the previous threads that have the answers to these questions. There is no point in re-hashing all this old shit AGAIN, just for you. Read and you will find the answers to your questions. |
Dunno. Don't care. If you don't have the cojones to stay and the brains to argue, then you leave. Spunk has managed to stay around. The man has cojones. He has acceptable brains. :P He's been here for years. Quit yer bitchin', you pinko commie towel-head. |
nor am i going to break down in a sceaming hissy fit, i suspect that that is what you also would like to see as well. |
the thing is that it's what we *don't* wanna see...it just usually happens and i don't have air conditioning |
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"...a Sgt in the Marine Corpse" wheeeeeeeeee thats too funny. |
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What did I tell ya? Baath party, definately. |
. You came here for a fight. That's pretty obvious. Now you're jumping on us for giving it to you? . Don't act all mistreated. If you went to a Feminist's group wearing an anti-abortion sandwich board, would you also be surprised at being disagreed with rather harshly? . Yes, we can deal with people who disagree with us. But if you come in with guns blazing, don't be surprised if we shoot back. . If you're going to join in a political thread, be prepared for it to get heated. It happens. . Some of us call certain views stupid for various reasons. These reasons have been illustrated in extreme detail countless times. By now there are certain understandings between us. If you want to participate with any effectiveness at all, you're going to have to catch up first. Then you'll need to go through the required hazing period. |
all i see, at most, are a couple of those clown horns a honkin. sorry. we have our right wing punching bag. the whipping post is full. but thanks for applying. check back in a year. |
if you cannot argue about the content, then attack the opponent. I am ashamed I fell for it. |
It's finally cooled down around here. It's in the 80's. We had a week that had something like the 3rd highest average temperature in history. I love it when people mispronounce "Corps", but to also misspell it is halarious. "Coup" is another funny one. |
I will say that this guy does give me a lot more respect for spunky, even though i still pretty much disagree with him on everything;) Wait a minute! I know who this guy is, everyone! It's Michael Savage, bored out of his mind now that MSNBC canned his hate spewin' fool ass. It all makes sense. |
We...are...no...match...for...your...greatness. Satisfied now? Good. Buh bye! |
Come on, I know that's not just me. Besides, this has never been a place for honest debate, with rules against ad hominem attacks and such. You'll have to go to another board if you really want that. |
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on the hardwoods, she plays that game for hours and when it rolls under the entertainment set, she will lay there for more hours crying until i fetch it. shes like 9 years old too and that ball brings out the kitten in her. |
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His all time favorite was this little plastic tie, which he would go apeshit over. If you have cats, you need a hardwood floor - they skitter like crazy over it. My other cat will play with the cat dancer and sometimes lick the catnip toys, but that's her limit. Mostly she likes to snooze in your lap. |
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:) |
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LET'S GET PISSED!!! PS, I can get rid of batman if you want me to. |
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But, you need cause for that. I do not beleive I have that. He/She has to become threatening or spew some hate crap out first. I am ALWAYS the network god. |
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Hence, the serious nature of a meatspace interaction... |
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