Ok. We shared a variety of pasta recipes, but now, we should put them under one thread. I made a pasta last night, left overs which Im eating now at 9am that I thought I'd share. I dont know whats it's called but heres the jist: one bunch of red/rainbow/green chard torn in medium sized pieces. rinse good. seperate a handful of the stems, dice but keep seperate from the rest of the chard. 5-8 cloves of garlic. mince. put a bunch of olive oil in a pan, saute garlic and diced chard stems and sautee for about 5 minutes, but dont brown. add rest of chard, get it nice and coated and cook on med-low for about 8-10 minutes. if havent got your water boiling, get a move on. i recommend farfalle when chard is nice and soft, add about a cup of ceci peas. turn heat to low, sautee for a couple minutes more. drain pasta when done. add feta to the chard mix. toss squirt about a half of lemon juice on top and mix with pasta and you are now one fucking happy pasta eater. spider, im particularly interested in one or two of your fav pasta dishes. and after i dropped the broccoli pasta recipe a couple weeks, someone said they were gonna try it and im curious if they did.

somebody gave me some bowtie pasta, but it was in a rice container. how long do you cook bowtie pasta until it's done? spaghetti usually takes about 11 minutes, but is it less for bowtie? i suppose i can just check periodically.

the stuff i buy advises 8 minutes, i think? i usually taste test with only loose reference for time, because i can never rememebr which pasta takes 8 or 11 minutes

i can't even tell you how badly i want to eat enormous amounts of penne alla vodka right now.

mario batali's corzetti alla novese makes me want to eat pasta real bad.

i'm pounding pesto right now. well, not right this second now. i'll be having it with bowtie pasta.

A few weeks ago I had a grilled cheese with pesto. It was delicious. Amazing what pesto can do

make it with a mortar and pestle and it'll definitely work your forearms.

While technically a pasta dish, most of ya pasta afficianados probably wouldn't consider macaroni and cheese a "true pasta." Am I right?

P.S. Patrick... your recipe sounds amazing. I'm worried I'd fuck up the chard though. I have never cooked my own greens.

I'm not a fan of farfalle / bowtie pasta. it's too doughy. I went through a phase last year where I ate angel hair exclusively, but I'm over that now. I tried making pasta alla boscaiola a couple of days ago, but I didn't use a recipe (I just...imagined things), and it didn't turn out well. It was just like pasta (pappardelle, if you're keeping track) with lots and lots of mushrooms. But, oh, the mushrooms! Portobello, crimini, baby bella, shitake, oyster, and button. I haven't had mushrooms in ages, and I've been craving them for months and months. It was good to have all the mushrooms. I didn't have a recipe because my dad's computer has a virus and I couldn't connect to the internet. Now my brother has given me his old Powerbook and I'm in the library (blessed, blessed library) and I can connect like lightning! So, Patrick -- pasta alla boscaiola. OK, I'm going to cut and paste a recipe here, though I haven't actually tried it yet (but it sounds great): The recipe is drawn from Adriano De Carlo's Cazzoeùla, busècca, òss bùs... e altre 97 ricette lombarde, and will serve 4: * 1 pound (400 g) pappardelle, ideally freshly made * 3/4 pound (350 g) porcini mushrooms * 2 shallots * 3/4 pound (350 g) canned tomatoes, drained * A small bunch of parsley * A clove of garlic * The leaves of a sprig of rosemary * A few leaves of sage * Olive oil * Dry white wine * Salt & pepper * Freshly grated Grana Padano Clean the mushrooms, brushing the dirt away from the stems, and separate the caps from the stems; dice the stems and cube the caps, keeping them separate. Mince the shallots and the herbs and sauté them for a few minutes in 4 tablespoons of oil in a casserole. Add the diced stems, cook another minute, and then add a half cup of wine and the tomatoes. Season with a little pepper and simmer the mixture for a half hour. Add a little more wine and a drop of water, and the cubed caps. In the meantime bring pasta water to a boil, salt it, and cook the pappardelle. Drain the pasta and season them with the sauce; serve them with grated cheese for those who want it. I'm going to try this at home in the next few days. I've never cooked swiss chard before, but I'll try your recipe, too.

PS. Boscaiola is pronouned boh - ska - YO - la

sounds excellent! and fun to make too. fun-to-make recipes hold a lot of appeal, even if they contain ingredients i don't necessarily enjoy eating. i made an italian sausage and rice layered casserole thingie for dinner last night that had a ridiculous amount of chanterelle mushrooms. i mean that in a good way, of course. $24.99 a lb for those fungi! did you know they have all kinds of crazy pasta now? yeseterday at the market i saw corn pasta (BLEAGH!), sprouted grain pasta (Ezekiel of course), quinoa pasta, spelt pasta, multi-grain pasta. i don't know. something about that just doesn't seem *right* to me. i can see whole-wheat pasta every now and then for very specific recipes, but not as a blanket alternative for regular pasta, you know? i know this is supposed to be a thread about pasta, but i made a deep dish, fresh blueberry pie yesterday, if anyone is interested. blueberry pie is very tricky, btw, if you've never tried to make one with fresh blueberries.

my friend worked produce at whole foods. his boss would pull chanterelles when they got barely discolored. still absolutely good. he'd come home with plastic bags full of pounds of chanterelles. we were spoiled.

I just completed my federal Stafford loan counselling online. For two years of graduate school, I'll have $37,000 of debt, and I'll be repaying that loan at $454 a month for over 6 years. This is a blow. $454 a month.

I apologize for derailing this thread. I don't know why I posted that here. But, seriously, $454. Wait, no, it will be less than that. The counselling was generic and introductory and didn't take into account the $6000/year grant I'll be receiving. It will be more like $25,000 of debt.

Anyway. PASTA. This is my lasagna recipe. I have found that you can indeed use no-cook lasagna noodles and they work well. You need your sauce (make whatever tomato sauce you like; I use my mom's recipe, which I posted elsewhere), your noodles, your ricotta (recipe below), and your options. Options include anything you can imagine, including the "null" option, which is nothing. Since I'm in a mushroom phase, I will include mushrooms. Ricotta *16 oz. ricotta cheese (whole milk tastes the best, but it's bad for you, so you can mix 8 oz of skim milk with 8 oz of whole milk) *kosher salt *pepper *parsley (I've used dried parsley and it works fine) *parmesan Just mix these ingredients in a bowl. I don't know how much parmesan to put in -- I just put in a lot. I believe you can add an egg to the mixture, for softer ricotta, but I do not lean that way. So then, in your pan, spread a layer of your sauce, layer of noodles, ricotta, mushrooms, sauce, noodles, ricotta, mushrooms sauce, etc. etc. until you run out of noodles. Your top layer (IIRC) should be sauce. Then bake at 350 for 45 min or so (you just want everything to be hot) and then remove pan. Sprinkle (liberally, generously, overgenerously, spendthriftily) with mozzarella cheese. Bake further for 5-10 minutes, until cheese is melted and good. Ingest at will.

I'm sorry, I need to clarify. Your top layer should be the noodles, and THEN you add a layer of sauce on top of that. Then bake, then bake with mozzarella on top.

my debt is like 4 times that slightly lower payment, but with 30 years to pay i figure in 10,20,30 years the money won't be worth anything. or at least a lot less. maybe. i keep thinking of prices in the 1970's. i don't really care, because to worry is pointless good thing i consolidated at 3% or i wouldn't be able to pay it at all pasta

I'm glad I consolidated. Otherwise I'd be fucked. Student loans just...yeah. By the time you're done paying them the money is practically worthless. Most of them are mellow, too, as long as you indicate some intention of paying they are happy to defer or reduce your payments. And once you get a real job, they melt away. Sweet Potato Gnocci Bake some sweet potatoes. Let them cool down enough to handle and scoop out the insides. Measure the amount you yield. Measure out the same amount in white flour. Mash together into a doughy mass. Add pepper, nutmeg, and salt. Roll out on a floured board, cut, mash with a fork if you want them to be ridged. Boil some water. Throw the gnocci in. When they float, they're done, so drain them and toss with salt, pepper, butter, olive oil, whatever. Enjoy

holy crap i want to make that right now!

no egg?

not if you're vegan.

well duh

I've never made it with egg. I guess you could throw it in, but they'd be really sticky.

Sarah, I'm intensely interested. I deeply loves me some blueberry pie. I'm having Eggplant Parmisan tonight, which includes pasta of some sort. I'm not cooking.

How odd. I'm making a blueberry pie tomorrow. PRobably boueberry/strawberry. Mif I'm feeling impish I might toss in some oatmeal to see what happens.

i had leathery pierogies of neglect for dinner. does that count?

i like angel hair the best. i agree about the fancy shapes being too chewy. i can't stand mushrooms at all, except for the little button shrooms you get in thai restaurants. like in the cashew chicken or the tom ka soup. those are ok. i also like asian noodle salads. do those count as "pasta"?

I just bought a whole bunch of glass (rice?) noodles and I have only a vague idea of what to do with them. I was planning on making stirfry and dumping the vegetables over the noodles. If I were enterprising (and had a wok) I'd try to make pancit, but I'm not feeling up to the challenge today.

Where is the pie recipe? I have 3 containers of blueberries sitting in my refreezerator waiting to be used before they get frozen against their will. On another note- we are getting a new fridge finally on Wednesday. Thank you Best Buy for allowing us to go further into debt. At least all of my veggies won't freeze anymore.

If you're feeling adventurous: 4 cups blueberries 3 tbsp corn starch 3/4 cups suger 1 tsp cinnamon 1/2 cup oatmeal 1 tbsp red wine 1 tbsp butter 1) preheat oven 425 2) melt butter 3) mix all in bowl reeeeeeeal goooood 4) put in pie crust 5) bake 50 minutes DISCLAIMER: I haven't tasted the result yet...

spidey....any recipes that are like....family favs? too bad mushrooms repulse me to no end, otherwise im into the concept of that boscaiola. and you can never use too much parm in any recipe as far as im concerned. jim, my recipe with the chard is so ridiculously easy....you cant fuck up the chard. i like mine over cooked, but as long as its cooked for at least 10 minutes under low hear, theres nothing to fuck up.

i've been meaning to ask you this: when you say "chard" do you mean what i always called swiss chard, that vegetable that's sort of like a cross between spinach and celery. it's a vegetable i always associate with italians because the only place i've ever had it was from the garden of this italian guy who used to live next door to my grandmother. years ago.

yes. they have different kinds, red, rainbow, green. it's not a strong of a green as say kaleor mustard greens but is a little more sturdy than spinach.

okay. so blueberry pie does not *have* to be complicated or tricky. tiggy's recipe seems perfectly logical to me. i especially like the red wine addition. i'd try a tawny port too, or a juicy petite sirah. my immediate reaction to reading it was that i'd add another tablespoon of cornstarch - for a total of 1/4 cup - but i guess the oatmeal acts in some ways as a substitute for cornstarch. and obviously the oatmeal is going to affect the taste, while another tbs of cornstarch would not significantly affect it. also, for 4 cups blueberries i'd reduce the sugar to 2/3 cup. the trickiness all depends on how you feel about texture and presentation (in addition to taste, of course). fruit pies that don't present well make me very crabby. because of the properties of a blueberry, it is difficult to slice out a clean, or relatively clean, piece of pie (especially if it's still warm from baking), without nearly all the blueberries tumbling out of the crust. i don't mind if a few tumble out, but i like pie to present like a pie, otherwise i'd just make a cobbler and to tell with it. so in my experience, when it comes to making a pie with fresh blueberries, the issues are the skin of the fruit and the water content. the skin is slick and taut, so right out of the gate we're in trouble if we want to get the blueberries to hang out together in a slice of pie. one way to deal with this is, after mixing the pie filling ingredients together, transfer about 1/4 of the mixture into another bowl, and smash it up with a fork. let it rest for at least 10 minutes, preferably 20, then drain it using a mesh-like drainer. you should also drain off some of the juice from the unmashed blueberry mixture, then lightly toss the mash back in with the unmashed blueberry filling. trust me. draining off some of the water will not in any way deflate the flavor of the finished product. blueberries also have a lot of water for such a small bubble of fruit. this is not only going to fuck with the cohesion of the pie, it's also going to make the bottom pie crust too soggy. with apple pie, most recipes include at least a couple tablespoons of flour with the apple filling, and apples are not even as watery as blueberries. but you'd never see flour as an ingredient of blueberry pie filling. so. there are a few things we can do to address this. first, add some plain, quick-cooking tapioca to the filling. it will not only absorb some of the water, it will also help create a bond during cooking. also it is, in my opinion, a better tasting and more natural alternative to simply dumping in more cornstarch. too much cornstarch makes things terribly bitter. and tapioca's flavor is so mild that it doesn't stand a chance next to the valiant flavor of blueberries. secondly, even if you're a purist and not in favor of smashing up some of the filling, you should still let the filling rest for a good 10-20 minutes and then drain it over a sieve before pouring it into the pie shell. thirdly, you must have a very well ventilated top crust. lattice is the most preferred, but if you want to go crazy with the fork poking and knife slitting, you go right ahead.** fourth, for the crust, use at least half shortening, half butter. shortening is more water-resistant than butter, which also makes for a flakier crust all around. lastly, baking time and temperature. you want to get that pie very hot for a short period of time (so as not to burn the crust), then reduce the temperature for the remaining bake time. this will help cook off some of the water. the reason i'm writing all of this is not to overwhelm you with details, but rather explain to you the somewhat secretive art and science of baking, and so that you'll understand why you might want to go to the extra trouble of using my recipe as opposed to a simpler, more traditional recipe. ** and don't lame out by using a pre-prepared crust and not bothering with a top crust. a bottom-crust-only pie is appropriate for pumpkin and sweet potato pies, pies with a streusel topping, and cheesecakes. otherwise, you're a weenie. so without further ado...

Deep Dish Blueberry Pie Filling Ingredients 6 cups fresh blueberries, picked over generous 3/4 cup sugar 1 tbs fresh lemon juice 1/4 cup cornstarch 2-3 tbs quick-cooking tapioca (or 4 tbs and tiggy's red wine, if you're a risk-taker) 1/4 tea ground ginger dash of nutmeg dash of salt 1 tbs half n half Instructions: Preheat oven to 425 degrees. Lightly toss blueberries and sugar. Let rest for 10-20 minutes, then drain. Add the rest of the ingredients to the blueberries and toss gently until well mixed. This is where you can decide about transfering 1/4 of the mixture into another bowl for mashing up. Either way, when you're done, pour into the chilled pie crust. Cover the mixture with a lattice crust. Brush crust with half n half. Sprinkle top with sugar. Bake for 20-25 minutes at 425 degrees. Reduce oven temp to 375 and bake for another 30-35 minutes, until crust is browning. Check on your pie during the last 20 minutes to make sure the crust isn't too brown. Add foil around the rim if it is. A good way to prevent crust burning around the edges is to make sure you have a nice, thick rim of crust... For the crust: Ingredients: 2-1/4 cup all purpose flour 1/2 tea salt 1/2 cup very cold, unsalted butter, cut up into little bits 1/2 cup regular or butter-flavored shortening 1 tbs sugar 6 tbs ice water 1/2 tbs apple cider vinegar Before you start anything, measure out the shortening and put it in the freezer for about 30 minutes. Then combine the flour and salt in a bowl. Cut in the butter and shortening using a really large serving fork. If you're fancy schmancy and you've a food processor, put it all in there and give it a whirl until mixture is crumbly. If you need the exercise, do it by hand. Add the vinegar and 5 tbs of ice water. Mix until the dough starts to form a ball. Add water if needed one tablespoon at a time. Separate the dough into two balls, wrap in saran, and put it in the fridge, while you make the filling, or make it a day ahead. Roll out the bottom crust and form it into the bottom of a deep dish glass pie pan. Pour the filling in. Top with the lattice. Refer to the baking instructions above. do you know how to do the lattice? if you do, i won't bother explaining it. or you can just google it, i'm sure there's already plenty of lattice crust instructions.

Sarah, you have -- dare I say -- physically and mentally aroused me with your passion and honed cognitive attention to the detail and science of pie. That was awesome. If I weren't afraid to make my own dough (it's a generalized dread) I would make your blueberry pie. As it is, I'm going to make the filling. I love blueberries.

Huh, I don't know what happened to the line breaks there. Anyway, I forgot to add: Patrick -- my family is none too creative in the pasta department, except that we add things to our basic tomato sauce (like my beloved mushrooms, sweet Italian sausage, ground meat, etc.) My mom makes pasta with seafood for Christmas Eve -- I think she makes some kind of white wine sauce and throws in all sorts of things: shrimp, scallops, calamari, mussels, maybe clams...That's very good. She also makes a mean pasta alla carbonara -- I'll ask her for her recipe.

Thank you Sarah and Tiggy! I'm going to try it tonight. I'm afraid I can't muster the strength for a homemade crust, though. That will need to be saved for a weekend.

Oooh...pasta al la carbonara. Now I've got a jonesin' Here's the recipe my father always uses: 1. Make pasta. (Like actually make it, it's worth it, from scratch.) And put water on to boil. 2. Thin slice some bacon or prosciutto and cook it at medium heat until it starts to render out crispy. No fats should be needed. Add cream, salt, pepper, and nutmeg. Simmer and let the cream thicken a bit. 3. Meanwhile, beat some eggs together with freshly grated Reggiano. 4. Drain the pasta. 5. Take the bacon/cream mixture off the heat and stir the eggs in with it...make sure it's not too hot, you don't want the eggs to start emulsifying, you just want to warm them through so they don't chill the pasta. 6. Toss the pasta with butter, more freshly cracked pepper, and the egg/bacon/cream mixture. 7. Eat immediately.

we do it differently 1. water to boil. 2. diced pancetta, cooked med-low so the fat liquifies. 3. pasta in to boil. 4. in a large bowl, beat a couple eggs. mix in a little cream, salt, pepper, fennel seed. 5. drain the pasta but keep it wet. 6. pasta into the bowl, top with pancetta and fat, toss. 7. cover liberally with cracked black pepper. i guess that's about the same. pussy pulling power. raise your hand if i lured you into my lair with carbonara. just kidding. did you mean pancetta? i didn't think people cooked prosciutto.

I want whatever that is. My hand is up and I don't even care that you claim to be kidding about it. I won't have sex with you for it...but I'd let you...no, if it's as good as I think it is, I'd ENCOURAGE you to touch my boobs. Fennel seed. Mmmm.

i never had that, nate. you owe me.

sorry heather, i figured it out later. it isn't a "for it" situation, margret. it is a "because of it" situation. but that's actually bullshit. i've never gotten laid because i can make pasta.

boobies works for both "for" and "because." f-e-n-n-e-l s-e-e-d.

i think i've come to a point where i don't like cooking simply because i hate dirtying the dishes. i hate the dirty dishes more than i love the meal.

that's why you get servants.

thanks spider. i'm very flattered! don't be afraid of crust. it's only tedious if you try to just get it done and get it over with. try to see the crust as the artistic foundation of pies. experimenting help makes it more fun. fwiw, sheila is the one who encouraged my exploration of the art and science of pie. almost like old times around here, but not quite.

ooooh. help makes. helps make. i talk pretty one day.

I did mean pancetta, Nate. Your version sounds rather delicious. Fennel seed sounds like a nice addition, as well. Crust is easy. I've never understood the social anxiety that has built up around pie crust. Mmmm...pie.

i forgot the significant amount of parm reggiano that should be grated into the egg mixture in step 4. i wish it wasn't so hot here. i could use some carbonara. i think fennel seed and pork are a fantastic combination, and that is possibly rooted in my mother's carbonara. which is different from mine. i think she used some diced pork shoulder. crust is not easy. i've never been successful with crust. except when i pull it from the freezer section.

i wanna learn how to make pie. a friend of mine makes a lemon pie that, in my opinion, especially when coupled with a crisp, dry white wine, is the best way to end a meal.

our basil plant has been going ape shit with all this heat. you guys ever eat pesto with green beans? like, toss the beans in the pasta water to get them nice and al dente. green beans absolutely rule with pesto. we're having friends over tonight. the girl is making this risotto with zucchini and goose fat that is ridiculosly good. so good, you cant stop shoveling it in your mouth without realizing that risotto expands something crazy in your stomach and you're groaning from stomach pains moments after your done. my girl makes pies, though im not a pie fan. within a month after we first met, she brought me not only a fresh bakes cherry pie, but a fig pie as well. do the math.

my basil is doing well. the summer here, for whatever reason, is pretty mild. never thought of putting pesto on green beans. it seems counterintuitive - dress plant with plant. like i wouldn't put butter on cheesecake. but i'll try it now (the pesto & gb-s thing). i'm a fig fan. i had a great uncle who had a fig tree in his back yard. aunt ola mae made fig everything.

i'm going to try butter on cheesecake.

green beans in pesto is quite common in italy.

Haven't heard back from Mamma re the carbonara recipe yet. I made it twice this past year from some cookbook -- it turned out great, but I don't remember all the steps. We used bacon (mmmmmm, bacon). My housemate M. made pies all the time -- coconut cream, peach, strawberry rhubarb, rhubarb alone, banana cream, apple -- no blueberry, though. She was really good at it and could whip up a crust in no time, like it was nothing. I think my fear of making crust is related to my hatred of getting sticky things on my hands and fingers. The thought of having to touch the dough puts me off (this is why I don't bake cookies often...or bake often, or why handjobs are right out, for that matter -- I also don't like the "you must measure everything and can't go off the recipe without making other adjustments" factor in baking. I don't know enough of the science. ). Last night, I went grocery shopping at 10 pm because I was starving and there was nothing in the house. Bad idea to go grocery shopping when you're hungry. It's a Whole Foods-type store and they have a fantastic deli section. I got cannellini beans marinated in something, grilled portobello mushrooms, grilled red peppers, fresh mozarella, and other things, but anyway, when i got home, I didn't know what to do with all those things, so I layered them on a little pain de champagne loaf (bread, beans, mushrooms, peppers, cheese) and stuck it in the toaster oven until the cheese melted. Then I went crazy and stuck a slice of ham over each piece. It was so good (like, SO GOOD), but so messy I had to lean over the sink to eat it and wash my hands after every bite. I almost bought swiss chard, but I realized I didn't know how to eat it (do you eat the stems?). I see from Patrick's recipe above now how to do it.

tonight i'm roasting eggplant, onions, garlic and romas to top leftover soybean pasta. last week i roasted some okra with just olive oil and salt, it was so smoky and good. one of my ex-housemates is allergic to gluten..... she'd avoid grains at all costs, except for rice and corn.

tonight i'm having a peanut butter and banana sandwich with green apple slices on the side. when i first moved to texas (to the south in general), one of things i vowed i would never do was eat okra. then my grandmother gave me fried okra and ham and that was that. okra, prepared just like lapis described, is great over basmati rice with indian (bharati) lemon pickles.

my new favorite quick and easy food thing is simmering zucchini in a roasted vegetable pasta sauce from whole foods. i had it for breakfast the other day. when i have counterspace in september, I am going to do the same thing except I will make my own sauce.

droop, where did you live before you moved to the south? how old were you when moved?

got a risotto recipe from last night. slice up some zucchini. salt and dry the zuchinni with paper towels. this is very very important. brown some garlic in oil....3-4 cloves. when zucc is dry, brown them to a nice golden brown in the oil. remove and let cool. saute onion in another dish for a good long while. nice and transparent. in another pot cook up some risotto in chicken stock of if you are fancy enough to have goose stock, use that. mix with the onions. when the risotto is done, toss with the browned zucchini/garlic mix and put some reggiano on top along with some chopped basil and eat until your stomach explodes.

I love risotto.

my two day diet: day 1: *three lbs of carrots dipped in peanut butter. *a bowl of kidney beans and rice simmered in beef broth, with tomatoes. (not so good.) day 2: *a lb of deli sliced roast beef *half a lb of sliced ghetto salami (low fat) *half a lb of deli sliced turkey breast *multiple handfuls of total raisin bran. (i'm switching back to the hippie shit they sell at the ho'foods. i can't believe how corn-syrup sweet shit is after you get off the corn-syrup.) *ten cups of coffee ooo, there is a new hot man in the neighborhood. a shirtless jogger with a black and white, shaggy, mid-sized but tail-less dog. MILF just rode by on a bicycle and smiled on me. i have afternoon delight fantasies about her. the receptionist at the psych is really hot. she has great legs. i was chatting her up the other day and she showed me pictures of her grandchild. GILF. i'm not really trying to fuck anyone. especially not with the gas this two day diet has given me. today so far: *two cups of coffee *peanut butter and jelly on sourdough toast *a short stack of ghetto salami in the outlook: *#1, onion, fries well, diet, in a bag. if you don't have an in-n-out near you, i am so sorry.

ooo Nate! Tell me more about the shirtless jogger. :) Smooth or hairy chest? And... does he wear onions?

if sarah still needs to know this: rhode island, 12.

it's not a matter of need, but yes, thanks. not that it's a big deal, but i was surprised when i read that you moved to texas, as opposed to being from texas. perhaps you've told us this before, and i forgot. but if not, it just seems like something i should have known a long time ago. it's weird but kinda cool when you realize you assume things or conclude things or you think you know certain things about someone you've known for a long time, and it turns out you don't.

I'm sorry to intrude on this thread like this, but I have posted in this very old thread "Elliott Smith has died" (http://bbs.sorabji.com/messages/ 669/7975.html?MondayJune2820040649pm ) and didn't get any answer understandably. I am trying to do some research on Elliott Smith's death because I find it very suspicious and feel frustrated with the results of the police investigation (unconclusive). I have read that in the 2003 thread some of you know somebody who may have infos, and I would be very grateful if you would elaborate on what you know. I'm not a journalist, nor a person who is trying to make any profit of this sad story, I'm just someone who wants to find out the truth. Thanks a lot

Whoah. Patrick?

thank you for noticing my post. Yes it seems that it was Patrick who said he knew something. I posted here because some of the people who had posted in the Elliott Smith thread have posted here too, but I don't know if they want to talk about that old subject. It's just an attempt to find out what really happened that day, the police never really cared to fully investigate (it seems), and the case will remain open may be forever :( so how can I contact Patrick? thanks a lot!

why does it matter?

It matters to me and to many persons who knew and loved him. I don't pretend to have known him well but I had the chance to meet Elliott a couple of times. I don't know, I suppose I want to know what happened because if (and it's still a "if" for me of course) he didn't commit suicide, I don't want him to go into history as this cliche of a tortured artist who killed himself. May it is the case, but I want to know for sure, and the police investigation failed to conclude on his case. I think it would be a relief to have some kind of closure, I am in contact with someone who knew him very well, and imagine being in that situation, never knowing if he killed himself or was murdered? that's really awful. Thanks again

I think his girlfriend killed him.

some things are unknowable. do you really believe the police took a high profile mysterious death and didn't follow every avenue of investigation they could?

i think i did but i can't be sure

well Elliott was not so high profile, yes he was nominated for an oscar years ago, but I really don't think the police did everything they could. First of all, it was declared as a suicide by his girlfriend and the police did not collect any evidence. Then the autopsy revealed it could have been a murder (the autopsy report was unconclusive but the hypothesis of murder was first proposed by the coroner office), and only then the police began to investigate. It was a little too late to collect many evidences in the house. They interrogated her once but she refused to talk to them later on. She took a lawyer and he told her to shut up. Something Patrick has reported in the old thread bothers me a lot. the fact that "she may have been able to save his life if she called 911." But it was reported in every single article that she did call 911!! so where is the truth? officially, she called 911 and he was brought to the hospital by ambulance, but there are rumors (I have also heard it elsewhere) that she tried to bring him herself. so many things don't add up, and she has had a very bizarre behavior since.

what do you mean the police didn't collect any evidence? you have two people, the alive one admitting directly that she was the last person to touch the knife. what evidence can you get other than her statement? the coroner's thoughts about it being a possible homicide have nothing to do with real facts, but only speculation based on typical behavior of people who stab themselves in the chest. regardless, the case is still open and he was never officially declared a suicide. he's not tupac. figuring out if he put the knife in his chest or she did isn't going to help him put out another album. he's gone. he left an incredible legacy in his music. i feel sorry for you. why put so much time and energy into something that has no bearing on anything? do something productive with your life.

Evidence that would lead to think there was some kind of physical fight, we already know they were fighting/arguing when this happened. Nothing to do with real facts?? what about the cuts he had on his right arm and his left hand? I think you don't get it, I don't care about getting new music, and I know I will not resuscitate him!! Actually his last album was released post-mortem, but that's another story! And please, don't feel sorry for me, I can say that I have a productive life!! it's not as if trying to figure out this case was the only thing I was doing. I'm quite busy, but this is one of these things which I deeply care about. I encountered a lot of people who had that kind of reaction, he's gone, it'll not change anything.... but I think it will change a lot for many other people, and I'm not talking only about people who were close to him.

nate, you're really just encouraging this

he was a cutter. he "wouldn't be caught dead with his shirt off." people who knew him could explain away the things the coroner thought were strange. beyond being unable to give me one concrete thing that knowing what "really" happened to him would change, can you not see that there is no possibility of ever really knowing what happened? you have one witness, and she has given her statement. short of her recanting at some point, there is nothing to add to this case. the 911 call was made. the ambulance did come. he died in the hospital. that is all public record. what else can you discover? what is going to end this search for you? what evidence can possibly swing the actuality of this case beyond speculation? there is nothing. heather, what am i encouraging? the conversation? i am really curious what makes people devote themselves to something so clearly impossible with such frevor. there is no revelation to be found, so why search? why search with such passion?

purpose

oh come on, it's my life I have the right to spend time on this if it matters to me! If you don't want me to answer anymore, just tell me, but you seem to want to continue the conversation so here it is: Again, I am doing this because I cared about him, as a person. If you don't understand that it's OK, but for me, it will bring some closure and affect my perception of his music and lyrics. I don't think it's totally impossible, I really think there are people out there who know things but who are not talking. I have been in contact with someone who has heard many different versions of the story, coming from different people,... He was a cutter, yes I know, but I think the doctor who did the autopsy was skilled enough to be able to make the difference between self inflicted cuts and cuts which can be interpreted as defensive marks. Then the marks are on the wrong arm, Elliott had self inflicted cuts on his left arm (I know that for sure), but the cut described in the autopsy report is "under the upper right arm".. seems very odd to cut yourself there. I also know that the report says the 911 call was made, but I wanted to know why Patrick was saying something different in the old thread.

patrick talks out his ass sometimes. maybe he was just playing with you. rumors are not reliable. i'm not upset with you. i'm more curious than anything else. however it goes, there is only one truth and nobody knows all of it. in this event and any other. you'll never know for sure. but eventually you might have enough evidence to believe in the end you want to believe in anyway. maybe that's it, tiggy. purpose. i don't have a purpose. i'm jealous of people who do.

I understand, you are saying you are curious, I'm too. Mostly, I'm curious why people don't want to talk about it. It's a taboo subject on many other message boards!. I have never talked to Patrick, I have just read what he posted in the 2003 "Elliott Smith has died" thread. I would be very interested to know if what he said was coming from a reliable source. Oh I don't have a grandiose purpose in life either, it's just something that I try to do beside my job and all the rest...

Look to Agent Smith, Nate.

what i heard in 2003 was based on second hand comments. an friend i have not seen or spoken with shortly after elliots death was a roomate of his girlfriends. his girlfriend was a total headcase, aggressive and known for engaging elliot in dramatic, drop down fights. what i heard from my indirect source as well as the LA Times articles in 2003 is that she didnt call 911. you are saying she did. fine. was the bathroom door locked when he stabbed himself? or was she freaking out because she's watching her boyfriend bleed to death from a wound she inflicted. moreover, why did she drive across town to a hospital when there are at least two hospitals within 2 miles? what escapes me is....how much strength does it take to hary cary yourself with a fuckin steak knife, enough to actually kill yourself.

coroner's report

Thank you so much for answering and remembering all this! all the articles I have read beside the coroner report said she called 911: http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/Content? oid=30529&category=22101 http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/another-view-of-elliott- smith/2082/ http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/-the-final-moments-of- elliott-smiths-life/2094/ so what you are saying is very interesting but also very surprising to me. I have never read this LA Times article you are mentioning. I wonder why there are so many inconsistencies in this story! Also it was never reported in any articles I have read that she drove him to the hospital!! but I have heard it too from someone, and since you are saying the same thing, I wonder! She said she locked herself in the bathroom, but yeah, you right, she didn't say if she did locked herself before or after the stabbing, I would be so interested to hear from this ex-roommate of her! thank again!!

oops!! I have realized that my links don't work, but all the articles say that she called 911. I also wanted to add that he had two deep stab wounds according to the report, and yes, as you said, stabbing yourself with a steak knife must be hard, but stabbing yourself twice is even harder!! However, if she did drive him to the hospital, I wonder how she managed to carry him at that point!? He was not dead yet but couldn't probably walk.

the coroner's report says she called 911.

it also says he was transported by ambulance.

Yes I know, but why to this hospital? a google research tells me there are several hospitals with ER closer than this one.... When there is an emergency of this sort don't they go to the closest location?

Nope. Matters on the local jurisdiction, but an ambulance can go to (or skip) a hospital for various reasons: insurance coverage, ambulance company's contract, ER capacity, ER capability, etc. For instance, here in Dallas, if you have no insurance you go to Parkland, no matter where you were injured, even if it's in front of a hospital.

you sound like you think there is some grand conspiracy between the girlfriend and the government to dispatch elliot smith. the way i see it there are two real possibilities: 1. elliot smith stabbed himself in the chest. 2. elliot smith's girlfriend stabbed him in the chest. and there are two people who can possibly know with any certainty which of the two happened: 1. elliot smith 2. elliot smith's girlfriend since you clearly do not consider the girlfriend reliably honest, there is no way to know what happened. there is no possibility that your search will ever turn up a satisfactory answer. you'd be better off trying to convince tiggy that god created the earth 6000 years ago while hunting snipe with vorpal blades.

Your corporeal torpor reports vapid vorpal vapor.

Right, insurance, I thought about that afterwards. sorry if I sound like an irrational person, I am in fact the opposite of that. And stop saying my search is hopeless! I am well aware of all you're saying, she is obviously the only person alive who witnessed the whole thing, but I know some people know some parts of the puzzle, and they are not talking for unknown reasons. May be I'll never know what happened but I'm trying anyway. I know you consider the coroner report as the ultimate truth, and I too think it is the most reliable source I can find on the subject, but I also think there is more to the picture than what is written in this report. There are some missing elements. Apparently you don't give any credit to what Patrick said, I have heard about the same thing from someone else, and I think this is strange. These are rumors but sometimes rumors have something to do with the truth. After all it's possible that she tried to drive him to the hospital then called 911. I also know a lot of time has passed between the moment it happened and the trip to the hospital, and what Patrick had to say in the old thread, confirms that. I am tired to justify why I'm doing that, I just want to get some infos period!

i have some infos for you you are INSANE get thee to a hospital

get thee to a nunnery

the coroner's report is either correct about the 911 call and the ambulance ride, or there is some grand government conspiracy. which do you believe? chiba either told the truth about what happened, or lied. which do you believe? it doesn't matter what anyone else says: jennifer chiba was the only person there who is still alive. her prints are all over the knife. his blood was on her hands. she either killed him or she told the truth. unless you want to get all x-files on the motherfucker, where can you go with this? what are you looking for? specifically? what do you think you will find? what do you hope to find? i don't think you are insane. but i really don't understand what you are searching for. there is no such thing as past-truth. truth only exists in the present moment. you cannot capture truth, you can only experience it. the moment you consider it, the truth is gone. there is nothing to discover here. all the possibilities have been laid out; no possibility is going to be dicisively provable. you can develop an opinion. really, you know what you want to believe: you want her to have killed him. you don't want elliot smith to have gone out like that. you want his memory to be purified. so you're looking for some coincidence, or some shred of circumstance. anything that you can latch onto and hold up in the light and say, "this here, this proves that she did it." but in reality, it will prove nothing. all it will do is cement the opinion you already hold. i have some questions: are you male or female? how old are you? are you sexually active? have you ever done hard drugs? have you ever considered yourself to have a serious problem with any addictive substance? are you or have you ever been medicated for depression, anxiety, or bipolar disorder?

the questions aren't meant to imply anything judgemental, or to try to drag some "ah ha!" revelation about you. for the record, my answers are: male,32,yes,yes,yes,yes.

female, 35, yes, yes, no, yes damn, i'm 35, too old for the internet. i had to look up elliot smith because i really had no idea who he was. suicide by knife to the chest is a bizarre idea, but this was 3 years ago and he is dead either way. maybe it was a sex-game accident. maybe he paid someone to do it. it doesn't matter, no one is ever "brought to justice" for murder. there is no justice for murder and everyone has a right to suicide, no matter what the government says.

you're 35? that makes no sense at all in my head. you were always three years older than me?

i do know this for fact...both of them were headcases....one just happened to be quite talented. its was perfect and yet disasterous and obviously they were together. if she didnt kill him directly, you can be sure was a catalyst much in the same way courtney love was a catalyst in kurt's suicide.

F 38 N Need clarification on what qualifies here. Y - nicotine N - but self-medicating with nicotine

coke,meth,heroin,morphine,whatever. arguably alcohol and nicotine.

LSD?

you know I'm gonna leave this discussion because there is no point to continue. I can say you couldn't be further from the truth! I have a sane mind, sane body, run every day, have never touched any drugs, and I don't even smoke! But that's enough about me. I have heard this argument before, but I really think murder is even more horrific than suicide, at least if he did kill himself, he got what he wanted, bye.

LSD, no. it isn't an argument. it is a question- what endpoint to this investigation will satisfy you? what conclusion will you be able to reach that will signal the end of your search?

can i get a club sandwich with extra dijonaise? thats an endpoint id like, that would conclude my search, for now.

"dijonaise" ? damn man. oh.. phone's ringing... hello? oh, yeah, just a second. patty, it's ralph lauren. he's asking if you have time to help him with his fall line.

i actually enjoy dijonaise. sometimes, the heathens get it right. the best chili is made with the least gourmet ingredients purchased at the piggly wiggly, not the farmer's market. this thread (the latter part) reminds me of dead like me. nate sounds like rube.

patrick is mason.

and you must be roxy. dijonaise is a couple condiments mixed together. you don't say, can i have a hot dog with some pickle relketchstard?

and i'm stoked to sound like rube. now someone cross reference sorabji people to the rest of the cast. i want someone to get named crystal but i don't want to be the one to do it.

"say, can i have a hot dog with some pickle relketchstard?" except no one knows what that is. everyone knows dijonaise. trans. shit you put on your sandwich. heather is crystal. J

dave., i would never have said that.

oops.

*sad*

heather is GIR

gir is not on that show!

Cantmakeasound ,his girlfriend killed him,what's so hard to understand? It's pretty odvious to me.What I can't understand is why she's still walking around?

nobody here is crystal. i don't think you could compare dead like me to sorabjiland. however, margret is roxy. i love joy. she's milfy-hot. i can't imagine anyone who'd be happy about being compared to her character. who is the old guy with huge nads?

who is kiffany?

who is the old guy with huge nads? V ?????????????

Can I be Reggie? I actually think J might be Roxy. Who is Betty?

lapis is betty. i am crystal. sem is reggie.

can i be someone ON the show?

could you be kiffany?

heather is j.f.

i see i'm a frog turns out i don't even know who crytal is, i had her confused with delores. i've only seen parts of season 1.

crystal is the receptionist at the temp agency, with the cats' eye glasses.

Heather could be Daisy. Daisy Adair. Agatha is Delores. Sort of. I would like to say that Cleo could be George, but I really HATE George and wish she would die in a fire. I already told you that I am Crystal.

Also, I would love to be compared with Joy.

heather is heather. i hate joy. crystal is disturbing.

im so lost with these references. i have no idea who mason is. i have like 17 different kinds of mustard in my fridge. hot, spicey, sour, wasabi, creole, horseradish. mix any with mayo and your in good.

back to pasta... yesterday i made a spinach pesto. all the same ingredients as basil pesto, except you use spinach. with penne and extra parm reggiano me and the dog ate happily yesterday in bed watching tv. this is how we cure our separations anxieties.

George did die in a fire. Sort of. I really liked Joy toward the end, when she told that assfuck joke of a father/exhusband off.

i have no idea what anybody's talking about, either. but i do have this to share: two weekends ago i had dinner at a friend's house. his wife was making an italian meal from a book i'd given to her as a christmas present or something - they had gone to the umbria region for their honeymoon and i had given her a travel guide/recipe book about umbria. gaby is from veracruz, mexico and is an excellent cook. everything was good, but my favorite was a roasted red pepper salad with anchovies and mint. she roasted the peppers and cut them into strips, then she arranged them in a fan on a plate. she put one long, thin anchovy in the gap between each pepper strip. then she tossed a few mints leaves (fresh from her garden) over it and drizzled it with olive oil. i ate it with cubes of italian bread. i'm hooked on it. when i make i use basil, since all i've got. but it's still good. basil is a mint, anyway.

Oh and pasta, I love spinach linguini tossed with: chopped sundried tomatoes (soaked in oil) chopped marinated artichokes chopped garlic chopped fresh basil olive oil balsamic vineagar and then topped with goat cheese; a more precise recipe is posted around here. we call it "exboyfriend pasta"

that sounds awesome, droop. anchoives are absolutely underrated. at one of those french cafes somewhere between chinatown and union square in sf i ate an appetizer that was basically just sardines with a variety of condiments, pickles, whatever you would call cruton-hard slices of bread, tapanade, mustard. it was simple and fucking brilliant. i love them little fishes.

confusion.... with betty and reggie i first thought y'all were talking about archie comics. which would be far stranger than my confusion.

Dave, why don't you burn some DVD's for these kind yet ignorant of "dead like me (the greatest television show ever)" people?

better yet, they can sign up for netflix and rock the fuck out the tv.

so this is a show called Dead Like Me? I'm knee deep in episodics right now with my netflix, including magnum...eagerly awaiting the new Curb Your Enthusiasm, the 2nd season of Lost, just finishing the first season of 24, waiting, seemingly in vain for the new Sopranos and season 5 of The Shield.

vagina it is funny how the anti-tv sect goes back and rents shows on dvd. not you, patrick. you just made me think of it.

senor won't let us use netflix, because he likes to support local business. about a mile from our house there's this metal/punk rock cd store and movie rental place. last time i was in there, this 45 year old dude who works there (maybe lives there for all i know) could not stop talking my ear off about "fletch". not the movie, the band from vegas.

i still rent from the local place and have netflix. not having cable tv its possibly that we might go a day or two an not get anything from netflix so we'll hop over to the local joint, a place where people are paid shit wages but still clearly love their job.

luckily, for me netflix is a local business. we only have corporate videoe rental shops in town, it seems. maybe i need to look harder. i also won't bother to rent movies if they aren't mailed to my door and don't have a late fee.

thing is....the whole anti-corporate/ buy local thing is a little lost on me in regards to net flix. for one thing, my particular account doesnt make money for net flix because im such a frequent renter. net flix makes money on those who pay $18/month for unlimited movies, 5 at a time, but only rent 5 the entire month. on some weeks, i get a netflix in the mail every single day. so, if you wanna "stick it to the man", sign up and go crazy. moreover, other than perhaps jobs of a video store closure, what is lost locally from netflix? its not like netflix is operating on a level of unfairness, or have greater buying power, or any of the other accusations slammed at say, wal mart. if anything, netflix gave a big thumbs up to blockbuster more than anyone else. i liken it to this. in my business, in the gay book business community, many harp that as gay bookstores continue to die a slow death that many gays should be ashamed for shopping at borders, or barnes & noble. fuck that. those chains stores stepped up to the plate, offered the selection they wanted, in a nice, clean, comfortable atmosphere. consumers ultimately decided. a few of the gay stores have evolved to offer what their evolving customers wanted and thus will survive and be prosperous. the video store i rent from locally is doing just fine in light of netflix. netflix has some of the most bizarre shit. i mean, c'mon, even my local store doesnt have Magnum on dvd. Im a big fan of netflix because it's a great service and totally affordable as far as I can tell of little detriment to the local video store.

Also, the whole "support your local businesses" thing is a little silly in general. Who do you think their distributors are? Biiiiiig multinational corps.

"4. The tattoo on my hip is NOT a Slipknot tattoo. It's a baphomet. I'm a Satanist."

excuses.

excuses. i will overlook price inorder to shop local businesses, but the product netflix provides is significantly different from any local video store. you don't shop at wholefoods, do you?

"On Saturday I ended up having sex in the back of an 18 wheeler in broad daylight I get to be in the new Diecast video!"

not that it is an apt analogy, but yes, i do shop at whole foods, but not nearly as frequently as i shop at the local grocery store, Fresh Plus. i would say for every 50 grocery store trips, 49 are Fresh Plus, 1 is Whole Foods. supermarkets... talk about anxiety. yikes. in fact, i didn't say we NEVER shop corporate, only that if there's a locally owned alternative, senor prefers it.

i've nearly completely stopped shopping at fred meyer... not being there helps, but now i've got to find a new developer. the alberta co-op (1/2 mile walk) is the first choice, new seasons (full mile, portland only chain) is the second as far as groceries go. i've been in a whole foods once this past year. but tonight i rode to blockbuster and rented a film and bought a coke to drink (from the "boston mart") while watching. in nearly every aspect of our short little lives there's a corporation involved. even without television and buying all your food in bulk there's still utilities. drive somewhere and you probably bought your gas at a corporate station. corporate hospitals, corporate wedding chapels, corporate cremetoriums. fucking hell. how can the hold be broken?

tonight i roasted a fennel bulb and a pound of mushrooms.... tomorrow's six pounds of tomatoes and a purple onion. to be frozen, taken to the desert and eaten over rice noodles. a sauce will be a good idea too. and i found a recipe for tortillas i'm going to try.

tortillas are masa and water. i make them all the time. so easy and so much better fresh off the comal. hmm. i wish it wasn't almost midnight. my parents tomatoes finally started ripening. i have a basket of their tomatoes that i've been eating like apples.

My tomatoes are ripening with a vengeance this year. They've been awesome, and haven't been bothered by those green hornworms I had last year, probably due to the dipel dust I've been using.

those green hornworms used to disturb the fuck out of me as a child. their sticky little feet and their catapiller vomit defense. dipel dust? is that like DDT?

i envy your tomatoes. this 104 degree heat is making sauce of my tomatoes right on the vine. very depressing.

is austin flat? does it smell like bush there?

Yeah, they're pretty nasty, but I did find their coloring amazing. I'd admire their coloring for a couple seconds before squashing them into the garden dirt, after remembering what they were doing to my tomatoes.

Austin has some relief to it. It doesn't smell like anything I remember, except maybe tacos.

Nelly, I like El Fenix restuarant, they makes the best tacos and Mexican food you will ever image! Remember that El Fenix is not taco bell! Hey, Taco Bell! you sucks!

Oh, the heat! Our AC went out last night. Thankfully it was fixed today, but 95 in the living room ain't pretty, let me tell ya.

Antigone, If my room is 95 degree, I had gone to wear that damn g-string . No question on what I looks like in g-string.

imn so glad we havent had to use our swamp cooler in a while. our heatwave finally subsided. however, in october, when the rest of the country is turning crispy cool, we'll be at the beach with our last heat blast for the summer.