I hate myself and want to die. Even that's unoriginal.

See what happens when I read too much A.R. Ammons? Only he would have written it: I hate myself and want to die. Even that's unorignal. And he would have given it a snazzier title.

Who is A. R. Ammons? Were you the one who insisted I sign that Tom Waits CD out of the library? I did so. I did it a little while ago and I listed to them (it was two CD's) and they're okay. I might have liked them more if I'd had more time to listen to them, but you only get three days. But it was decent. Recently I had a dream that I saw Tom Waits on Open Mike with Mike Bullard, and he looked really old. Mike would ask him a question and he'd keep breaking into song (if you could call what he does singing).

Gee, which album was it?

So, whassup with this self hate, Rhi? Wanna talk about it? (Well, obviously... Otherwise you wouldn't have posted. :-) )

Well, ummm..... *sigh* Actually, that post was originally, like, yards long, and then I decided I could sum it up in those two phrases. Then I felt stupid for being so self-indulgent and tried to soften it a little. I feel stupid now, but I just had a long psychoanalytic conversation with a friend of mine, so I'm in a self-disclosing mood. Well, it's like this. Mental illness is no stranger to my door, and I thought I had finally kicked him out of the house and sent him on a slow boat to China, but it seems now he's back and is serious about putting down roots. Dig? I used to get anxiety attacks in high school about once a month, and on top of that I had to deal with that common cold of the psycho universe, depression. Freshman year in college, the anxiety attacks happened a little more often, and then from about mid-sophomore year till now...nothing. I was fine. No anxiety, no depression...no medication, no therapy or anything....I was just fine. I thought I was finally, finally better. And then about a week ago, I had another anxiety attack. And that made me very upset....hence the post.

Damn. I shouldn't have said anything. I'm sorry. See what I mean? This is so annoying.

Hey, you're not alone. I just started taking St John's Wort again. Silly me, I thought the daily panic sessions about death would just go away. No such luck! Maybe I should get back into Zen meditation. That was the only non-chemical thing that was even remotely effective. But, shit, the wort does the trick, tho!

OK, I take that back. Playing Mozart's Minuet k.5 helps. Especially the 10th measure where there's a B half note to a C quarter note in the treble clef and a decending C-G-C arpegio in the bass clef. It's such a nice piece...

I can't remember the name of it. It might have been the early years or something. It was actually Two albums.

I went for my well woman check up yesterday,I told my Dr. that the prozac wasn,t cutting the mustard,I told her I wasn,t well,where could we go with this?She prescribed me something called Serzone,I,ll let you all know how it goes.Kind of paranoid now,was supposed to get a mameogram at her office,they usually do the blood work there too.She,s sending me to a lab to get an x-ray ,get my blood work(I noticed she checked alot more boxes on the lab page)and my mameogram there too,WTF?Anyway Lucy,notice how I,m not offering you any of my new meds?

hang in there Rhi, as long as you can identify the problem, you are that much better. sometime si get really paranoid and consdiering my dad died a diagnosed paranoid schizo, naturally i am paranoid about the bad gene for me, BUT, as long as you recognize it as paranoia, is it paranoia, as logn as you understnad what is happening in your head, the cause, the chemical etc, you are that much better, thats line of thinking always mad me feel better

patrick- you have to start typing slower, your posts are becoming difficult to read. spider- i'm all there. two weeks ago i couldn't eat or sleep for 3 days. they gave me anti-anxiety something but it turns out that i'm allergic to it ($25 for a prescription to counteract the effect of the first $25 prescription- for like, 10 pills) feel free to email if ya want to talk

sorry

Gosh. Fuck anyone who tells you otherwise....you all are good people. Thank you.

god what a horrible post, thanks heather, i am not really that dumb and likewise rhi, byt eh way, your solatair email is full, i had an email declined

DAMN IT! B Y T H E W A Y

That's odd. It's not full, I just checked. Try again!

This is my thread. I decided. It belongs to me. No one may change the subject. However, they may add to the subject. The subject being how psycho we are, complete with examples. Today's example: if you haven't noticed or inferred, I don't do well speaking in front of groups of people. Today, I had to give a 20 min. oral presentation on piracy in the ancient world. I signed up for this topic on November 1st. I did the research for the presentation this morning at 8:30. The presentation was at 11:00. This is quite a problem I have, but it's not *the* problem. Knowing I had to do this presentation and predicting I would be extremely nervous, I rooted around in my drawers and such and came up with one tablet of anti-anxiety med. and decided to take it, completely forgetting that when I was on this medication it would make my *body* relax, but it would do nothing for my nerves or brain. So I get to class, and when I get up to do my presentation (and, thank the good lord, she allowed us to simply read a paper....we didn't have to have any visual aids or anything), I'm still nervous as hell but I'm so weak I have to sit down to read my paper. AND I'm still so nervous that even sitting down my knees and hands shake. This strikes me as decidedly unfair.

SIDE EFFECTS: The most commonly noted side effects associated with lorazepam are sedation (which is reported in approximately 1 in 6 people), dizziness (1 in 15), weakness, and unsteadiness. Other side effects include a feeling of depression, loss of orientation, headache, and sleep disturbance. --medicinet.com Glad to know it's not just me.

Rhiannon! Where did you get those pills?? I would give my left eye for one of those right now. I sometimes get these really horrendous backaches, and the one I've got now is resistant to all my "cures". The only plan I have left is to wait for exhaustion to set in.

Soma Proziac Imatrex Wellbutrin Progestrone Vicoden Stadol Claritin Celexa Vancinaise Beconaise Demerol Albuteral Endicin Endomethecin Bacrim Keflex Zithromax Tagamet ...and a host of others I forgot... None of 'em helped. I suggest you try sensemillia. However, I recommend you read up on possible side-effects, etc., first.

PRESCRIBED FOR: Lorazepam is used for the management of anxiety disorders, the short-term relief of the symptoms of anxiety or anxiety associated with depression. The effectiveness of lorazepam, or other benzodiazepines , have not been adequately studied for treatment beyond 4 months. Lorazepam also has been shown to be effective for improving sleep in people with insomnia, for panic attacks, and as an adjunct (i.e., when added to other medications) to prevent nausea and vomiting in patients receiving cancer chemotherapy ---Medicinet.com No mention of back pain. But it would do something for your insomnia (why else would you be here at 2:28 am?)

I,ve just started on some new anti-depression meds,it,s called Serzone,I,ve just been taking it for a few days.I use to get up early,now I sleep later and feel dizzy,I hope this makes me feel normal sooner or later.

generic name: nefazodone BRAND name: SERZONE *** SIDE EFFECTS: The most commonly noted side effects associated with nefazodone are nausea, dizziness, insomnia, agitation, tiredness, dry mouth, constipation, lightheadedness, blurred vision, and confusion. "If antidepressants are discontinued abruptly, symptoms may occur such as dizziness, headache, nausea, changes in mood, or changes in the sense of smell, taste, etc. (Such symptoms even may occur when even a few doses of antidepressant are missed.) Therefore, it is recommended that the dose of antidepressant be reduced gradually when therapy is discontinued." --Medicinet.com J, I had a similar reaction to Elavil (sleeping too much). It must be part of the anti-depressant package.

Yea,and my eyes are going crazy on me,but I,m going to stick with these,at least give them a chance,but I really am discombobulated,maybe the way things are going on in my life right now,it,s a blessing.

J, if you drink while taking Serzone, you might as well not bother.

Lather, Did you really really try all the shit on your list? Come on, Progesterone?! etc.. Stay out of your granny's med cabinet you obviously don't have a clue. If you want a MUSCLE RELAXANT try thorazine 50mg IV push...you'll be relaxed!

Isn't Claritin allergy medication?

yeah

My God, Lather, what kind of ailment do you have??

I don't have insomnia. I just like to sleep in and stay up late. It gives me a lot more time where there's quiet, which I really like. I get back pains because of stress. I don't know how to deal with stress (aside from worrying) so it just builds up and I get really tight. I generally have a low threshold for pain as it is, but I remember the first time I got one of those backaches it shocked and hurt me so much I went to the ER. I was so happy when they gave me something and put me to sleep. Maybe I should ask my doctor is I can get some kind of prescription for this. I just realized that my Doo Wop Christmas album has a bunch of nobody singers on it. darnit!!

You're right Beav, I got progesterone wrong. There was a migraine/cluster-headache preventative that I was taking, pro- something. Oh wait, it was PREDNAZONE. The list, though not even close to complete, is padded with anti-biotics and stuff (I get injured periodically surfing). Other than infection, I've taken meds in the past for asthma, cluster- migraine headaches, muscle relaxant for my shoulder (separated AC joint, rotator cuff issues), allergies, depression, and insomnia. To be fair, the depression was circumstancial rather than clinical, but the anti-depressants still helped while I was taking them, particularly Celexa. Celexa is new, and supposed to have less side effects than other anti-depressants. Oh, and I got shot up with MORPHENE after a nasty surgury to go in under my temple and raise a broken/collapsed cheek bone (Zyphoid process?). Man did that morphene give me a mega-migraine. Out-patient surgury turned into a 6 hour recovery/nightmare. DIE MORPHENE DIE! Mostly, they tried alot of stuff for my migraines. Some 8-10 different meds were tried without luck. Exercise/weight-loss was the only successful long term treatment for the "headaches". The only thing on the list above that I still take is a relaxant for my shoulder muscles, Soma. Then again, I'm about 60lbs lighter, and much healthier overall than when I took most of that shit. Ok ok, I also still take Vicoden on occaision. :) ...and of course, the Sensey... :) 8) 8P

Lather, Did then Imitrex work for you? I had vascular/migraine headaches and when this drug came out it was like a miracle. Sounds like you have a drug allergy to morphine, if so stay away from codeine and stick with vicodin and/or demerol. For people with stress/muscle tension leading to headaches, ask your doc to let you try Skelaxin. Some report excellent relief. My last tidbit....got a bad cough? You can buy cough syrup from your pharmacist WITHOUT A PRESCRIPTION that contains 10mg codeine with 100mg guaifenesin per 5cc (teaspoon). It's a schedule V (5) drug which means it's not sold as an "over the counter" but the FDA allows it to be sold through a pharmacist to you in limited quantities without a script. You will have to sign a drug log, if your name appears too many times they check on you. It will come under many generic names at about $5 a 4oz bottle (120cc). Mytussin AC Cough Syrup sold by MPG (or Morton Grove Pharmaceuticals) is common easy to find. Some places like Walmart, Wallgreen's etc. don't want to mess with it so without a script they won't sell it. My advice....cough repeatedly in their face.

Headaches???? Accupressure works wonders! Immediate relief! Best to get someone else to do it for you, if your H/A is severe. In the area between your thumb and first finger, kinda the "flap" of skin that joins them, massage firmly, there will be an EXTREMELY sore spot, that you will barely be able to tolerate having touched. Usually, only sore on one hand,but occasionally both will be sensative.[won't usually have sore spot if no H/A], any way, massage, or have massaged this tender area, increasing force of massage as tolerated, H/A will start to dimminish almost immediately, con't massage for a few minuets, to finish the process. A doctor I worked with years age, had just come back from the Orient, he'd gone to study the art of accupuncture, and taught me this handy H/A remedy. Usually, I am very skeptical of "alternative" medical practices, but have used this tech. many times with a great rate of sucess. My husband used to get migraines so badly, he'd be in bed 24 hours,but is now a firm believer in this tech.

I had that technique performed on myself and it worked "fairly" well for 20-30 minutes. Others may find it more effective.

Yes, as a matter of fact the Imatrex was the only thing I tried that would successfully take out a migraine. It is like magic, esp. after trying a whole bunch of other stuff that didn't work. The problem with Imatrex is that there is a big risk of heart problems. You have to take it sparingly, and it is NOT a preventative - you just take it to get rid of the headache after it happens. Oh, Stadol worked too, but it is a strong narcotic, heavily addictive, and only helps in that you no longer care if you have a headache since you're so wasted. I like the acupressure idea. If I get them back again I'll definately try that. So far, general fitness seems to be keeping them away.

I filed medical research trial paperwork for Imatrex, Glaxo Wellcome right.....that was in 92..........I copped another script of valium friday, for my "fear of flying".....it's the holidays you know and I will be traveling ALOT (sarcastic tone) this holiday season.......5mg Diazepram generic for valium....two of those puppies and two beers....WAHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! last time i raided grandpas medicine chest he had some killer big assed white pills with blue specks, they were for pain because he had a knee cap replaced, many months prior though, he had no need for them......grandm had some estrogen pills of which i avoided

I don,t like flying either,I too have to be sedated,last time I flew on a miserable flight to Chicago,I got into a verbal argument with some bitch(family couldn,t sit together,and I was wedged in the middle of a fat couple)my last words to her were "my ass would make you a Sunday face".Heather was across from us,she acted like she didn,t know me.Then I went and got a stewardess,and she gave the bitch a talking to,then at the airport I stared her down.

My one bad flying experience was when I had to spend 8 hours without nicotine... I was hysterical. I now have nicotine gum with me on every flight I take and I'm a happy camper. I do take some comfort in the fact that I probably convinced the 14 year old kid sitting on the other side of me (as I'm sobbing and white-knuckle clinging to my bf at the time) that smoking isn't cool. As always, if I am to do great good in this world, it will be as a cautionary example.

Oh,thanks for the idea Lucy,I flipped out coming back from Florida,it was a bumpy landing and I started screaming"WE,RE ALL GOING TO DIE",and then I was so ashamed when we were getting off the plane.

I know how y'all feel. Flying scares the wholey bajeesus out of me. Never fails. And I'm getting on a teeny commuter plane on the 23rd... How can I score some valium?

i used to want to be a pilot, as i have said before i am fascinated with it, but on our honeymoon, on the way to chicago, we had the back seat, the very back, no window, we couldn't even recline, we have turbulance like you wouldn't believe, if you closed your eyes we could have been on a roller coaster based on the "gasp"s and "whooo"s from everyone, my wife was in tears and ripping my hand to shreds, then when the a-hole landed it took him 2 bumps to get it on the ground (i.e wind sheer, which has taken many planes vicitim)......chicago sucks to fly into, it's not the windy city for nothing.......after that trip i have since been a little paranoid, but i recognize it as paranoia, and as terrifying as it can be to think of, i know i am safer there than most places.......so the valium is for a somewhat legit reason, but i just have to be sure and not smoke pot, otherwise i totally get paranoid. alos i found it helps to learn about planes, i know alot of what a plane does and when and why it does what it does........this helps, I know the sound of the flaps extending, i know the sound of the gear coming down, i know that on take off in some cities they have to cut power immediately because of noise abatements, this is why you may feel like you are dropping when in fact you are just slowing down because the pilot has to cut the throttle antigone go to your doc and tell him you are sketchy about flying and you have heard valium helps alot, be honest, play a little dumb for valium is an easily identifiable narcotic and you should get a small script with little or no hassle. I have done it numerous times, the doc can't question that kind of ailment.....I am flying very soon too, when i am not stoned i am perfectly comfortable with it, when i smoke pot and think of it i get a little paranoid, but i know this is because of the pot and not reality

The last time I flew I got a really horrible headach. That's never happened to me before. My personal theory is that he pilot came down too fast. Also: it seems that whenever I'm in California, my ears stay plugged the Entire Time. Then when I come home I'm alright again. Why does that happen? I understand flying plugs your ears, but I'm only plugged in CA, and then when I'm home there's no plugging!

it's air pressure, perhaps the change in climate had something to do with it, the air can be very dry here.....if they pilot does descend to quickly it can affect your ears more dramatically, but if he is descending fast like that it's becasue he is avoiding other air traffic, or missed his way point, or you are loosing cabin pressure or going to crash which is not a good thing. Seeing as how you are alive, the first two are more likely. I get a head ache when i flew especially if i get a B going on and then when we land, i feel as if I have a hang over, again the air pressure, your blood thins and your feet swell, evre notice that? Take off your shoes and then put them back on when you land, you may find it more difficult.... i hate short flights, ironic i know, but the bigger the pance the more secure i feel.......767, 757, L1011 or the new 777s are good planes, I hate the american airlines Fokkor planes, they are crap made, they use these for domestic short flights and they are crammped like cattle cars, this was the piece of shit i flew on the chicago on that ill flight mentioned above...and the dc-8 and 9 and 10 are old planes, southweest airlines boiught up a crap load of these, delta has some in service but they have switched maninly to boeing.......american airlines has a nice fleet they use for international flights, 767 luxury liner as the it says on the side, delta has a fleet of 757, L1011s and 767s as well....i feel good on these planes, they have excellent records...

LET ME TRY AGAIN it's air pressure. the change in climate may have had something to do with it, the air can be very dry here. If the pilot does descend too quickly it can affect your ears more dramatically, but if he is descending fast like that it's because A) he is avoiding other air traffic, B) missed his way point, C) you are loosing cabin pressure or D) going to crash. Seeing as how you are alive and well, the first two are more likely. I get a head ache when i fly, especially if i get a B going on. When when we land, i feel as if I have a hang over, again the air pressure, your blood thins and your feet swell. Ever notice that? Take off your shoes and then put them back on when you land, you may find it more difficult to put them on.... I hate short flights, ironic i know, but the bigger the plane the more secure i feel.......767, 757, L1011, MD-11 or the new 777s are good planes, I hate the American Airlines Fokkor planes, they are crap made (like in the former Soviety bloc or someplace like that), they use these for domestic, short flights and they are crammped like cattle cars. This was the piece of shit we flew on the ill Chicago flight that was mentioned above...and the dc-8 and 9 and 10 are old planes, southwest airlines bought up a crap load of these, delta has some in service but they have switched mainly to boeing and McDonnell-Douglas.......American Airlines has a nice fleet they use for international flights, "767 luxury liners", as the it says on the side, Delta has a fleet of 757, L1011s and 767s as well....i feel good on these planes, they have excellent records...

the college radio is rockin right now, they have somebody who used to be in Jawbox and Shudder to think and they are revisiting all of the old dischord stuff.....listening to egghunt, embrace, shudder to think, pailhead, gov't issue.....ROCK ON!!!!!!!

*ahem* You may talk about your fears of flying all you like in this area. *However* as much as I love Shudder to Think (and I do..."Kissi Penny" is one of my favorite songs of all time and I'm so sad they've broken up) and Jawbox, et al.... what did I say? No changing of subjects! This is where we talk about our psychological deficiencies, not our love for Craig Wedren's bald head. Or something. Thank you, babies. *blows kisses to all*

er, i have an emotional dsyfucntion, i am suffering severe regret for selling all of my old school vinyl, it is very traumatic for me, i sold off some kick ass records.......including the aforementioned...i am suffering from severe nostalgia when i hear these tunes......... better?

Well, unless you have engaged in self-mutilatory behavior because of the intense self-hatred you feel for having sold your records.....ummmmmm.....no. But nice try.

i beat my head against my desk.....(BAM!) ouch! (BAM!) ouch (BAM!) ouch (BAM!) ouch throw me a bone here...i am trying to conform....

"Throw me a bone" -- that's one of my favorite things to say. What did I say? I said, the subject of this thread is how psycho we are. You really think longing for past love (of any kind) is psycho? Aahh, whatever. I have no control over anybody, not even myself. You can say whatever you want and I won't stop you.

but i do long to make you happy Rhi, i assume any insanity i have stands for itself........... on the corner of Sunset and vine, or in my various posts....sheeeesh!

I sorta believe everything i hear and sorta thnk it's acrock of shit. Life can be confusing. I don't suppose that qualifies as psycho. Or maybe it does.

what's that smell?

I remember when I tried to get people to stay on topic in my Ice Cream Sandwich thread. It's a noble gesture, Rhiannon, but darned futile. did I spell futile, right?

Smell? Smells like..............Fetid Beavers....

Stop!! Now you're doing it on purpose... :P I'm serious. I want a place for us to talk about our messed-up-ness in a place where we can feel comfortable to do that....and this is the place, because you know what you're getting when you come to this thread. You know what I'm saying? You don't have to interrupt other *normal* conversations with "well, when I made my third suicide attempt..." or things of that nature, and then everyone else looks at you funny. Instead, this is like a safe space to talk freely of such things. Come on....please?

I've been very down lately. I'm hoping it will pass before people start to get mad at me.

ah jeeze I am sorry Rhi, i wasn't trying to detract from the thread.....just being my annoying self...........i'll regard this thread as you wish

Thank you, sweetie. Sorry to be a hard-ass, but...well, you know. Gee, are you down because of a particular reason, or is this free-floating blues you're talking about?

S'probably the holiday blues, Gee. I get the same way every Xmas. Or it cd be Seasonal Affective Disorder kicking in/altho' mine used to hit in Nov & hang around til April or May. (Best cure for S.A.D. -- moving to a climate with no winters. Mine disappeared completely after I moved to FL.) In any case/remember: "This too shall pass."

or this : "So What?" Inane slapstick comedies are a good thing too, if you don't want to move. Me,I can't wait for snow. If I had to live in a place that had only one season, or even only two, I would go nuts. i think that where you are raised may have something to do with SAD. I was raised in teh land of ice and snow and I don't get it, but my mom was raised in Mpls. and she has it. ( I think living in cities may help to insulate one from weather, because you can do a lot of stuff indoors. Whereas, if you have to drive ten miles to see a movie in the snow, well...)

I've always thought S.A.D. had to be confounded by all the holidays in the winter. People usually get more depressed around holidays. And I'm sure there's been research done on S.A.D. in the Southern Hemisphere, but I'm not enterprising enough to go look for it.

Thanks, you guys are nice. I'm not used to being depressed around christmas. I usually feel pretty good. As a matter of fact, shopping for gifts has been a lot easier this year than usual. I keep stumbling over really great gifts for my friends and wotnot. I have speciphic reasons for being down, but they're too complex and personal to go into here. I don't need the whole world to be aware of my mental defects. (not All of them, anyway)

I was going to say this somewhere else, but then I remembered this thread, so here's my christmas present to Rhiannon - I'm staying very well on topic. I was having mood swings yesterday. One minute I was feeling so down (for no speciphic reason I could see) that I thought I was going to cry. My eyes were watering up and everything. Then fifteen minuts later I was laughing like a hyena about how the books all jump off the shelves in the middle of the night and have giant rowdy book parties. I remembered this because I saw Rhiannon swear on another thread, and that seems so weird coming from her. I'm sure she's done it before, but everytime she does it it seems weird. And a girl that I work with was swearing a lot yesterday and it's the same thing with her: she's done it before, but everytime she does it it's shocking.

I rarely swear out loud. I swear often in my head. And since what I write here is never said out loud but only thought in my head, I don't feel bad about swearing here. Sorry to shock you. What do you mean by books jumping off the shelves in the middle of the night? Are you hallucinating, too?

DAMN! my tech support dude just came around when i was just about to finish my post here, he needed to do something to my computer, so i bugged out and now i am starting all over.....anyway i was really depressed when i went home last night, i skipped my final lab time, i lacked enthusiasm, i came home only to escape to my fantasy computer game world, i then decided to walk to the video store and also pick up some more booze. Teh walk was nice, it always is. i got some movies and a 5th of vodka and an oil can of Fosters. I was feeling better, but I also felt very alone. I did some light tests for some self pics i wanna do, in the stairwell, but ironically I am kinda shy doing self photos, so i tested my exposure and then planned to shoot later when no one was around, I never got to it........ i smoked pot and loved with my kitties, all of my good friends are busy or gone, some are filming, which if you have friends who film, you generally don't see them for the 6-8 weeks or however long it may take to make the movie or tv show, or if they are on location, they work 16 hour days and generally don't do the "happy hour" thing, plus their weekends are odd for many reasons, too cumbersome to explain...(has anyone seen a show on Lifetime called "It's a Miracle"? Angry Sam produces that, just curious since I don't have cable).another friend is gone for the holidays and that leaves aquaintences and girlfriends...the girlfriends I am hesistant to call and hang out with for fear that they might be suspiscious of my motives for calling them, but all i want is to hang and talk, but they are mostly nico's friends and i only see them with her......marky ramone is at http://www.alsbar.net tonight, so i may dig that......tommorow my photography teacher is having an opening/party at his studio, he said..."feel free to bring your girlfriend"...i said "she is in japan"....he said "ohh.." he is spacy like most artists are, i have told him and refernced my "wife" so many times, despite the dozens of pics he has seen of her. I suggested I may come with angry sam, he knows angry sam from the doezens of photos of him as well, he said.."cool"...but sam has a play to go to , politics and schmoozing with theater owners for him as well.... looks like i will be alone, maybe i will make some friends, but who knows. alone and bummed indeed. I thought about going to the strip club for the hell of it, but being a guy sittign alone in a strip bar is not the best light to cast myself, that seems too pathetic, at least for me anyway... (sigh)

but even more pathetic is a woman sitting alone in a strip bar. when i was w/ this one band, i'd occasionally be left alone in strip joints in strange cities for extended periods of time (long story). anyway, strip joint clientele & owners don't quite know what to do w/ a loose cannon running around--a woman who's not dancing & is also actively tipping the dancers (i got a hell of a lot more attention from them than the guys did--long wet kisses, getting my head pulled into their chests & groins, sometimes a free lap dance). anyway, not to take away from your lonely feelings (which i really & truly hope are getting better). just thought i'd point out that the next time you're sitting in a strip joint alone, no matter how pitiful you may feel, comfort yourself by knowing that you won't be quite as out-of-place as a woman who's doing the same thing. oh, yeah--now there's a rule all over this area that women who aren't dancing aren't allowed into the strip clubs at all. not that it breaks my heart. but i don't think it's fair.

ISN'T THAT DISCRIMINATION?!!!!????? they are idiots, they could be missign out on a lot of revenue. the strip joint we hit is very trendy, it's almsot always a mixed crowd, hipsters and whatnot. It's trendy to be a girl and go to strip joints. Nico always gets catty looks from other girls when she gets a lap dance......they are so silly....I have never been to a strip joint alone, but perhaps i may give it a shot....i think though with the out my wife, i may just end up feeling pathetic......

Here's my bit o' holiday derpession: Went to the Directorate x-mas party last night. Got continually asked where my date was. that never gets uncomfortable. At one point, a few years ago, the ol' holiday depression got compounded by the lack of romance (the actual kind, not the hokey stuff, Rhiannon), and it go tto the point I had to seek therapy for it. Lasted a month, and seemed to help some what. I think it was worse back then because I could still remember what it was like to actually have a girlfriend. i also die a little inside every time a friend says to me "oh, but you're the type of guy the girls will go for when you're in your 30's and making money, when they're ready to settle down." Of course, this sounds like the only girls who will want to be with me are the ones looking for security, not love. blahh. nothing you can do about it, i guess. It's the roll of the dice. Some folks have it, others don't.

it is, indeed, discrimination. but they're private clubs, so they can do whatever the hell they want. women hitting the strip joints here is rather unusual, as far as i can tell. there's nothing hip about it. just weird. there's probably one club i could still get into, although they were also talking about adopting the policy. a woman who isn't dancing is just competition that takes men's attention away from tipping the dancers. ever since the yuppified "gentlemen's clubs" came here, the strip joints have gone straight to suburban hell. the owners want to keep the "undesirables" (blacks, mexicans & dykes) out, so the membership prices are through the roof. if a woman isn't dancing, she won't get in the door. if you're a lawyer, you can get in...but a working-class schmuck will often be given the cold shoulder. now, there's one club here where anything goes. that's cool. as the other clubs get fancier, this club competes by getting sleazier. but the men are of a seriously low calibre. an acquaintance of mine used to dance there & would come home w/ scratches, bruises & bitemarks on her tits from the guys getting too excited. the men are mean as hell there, sometimes. classic stalkers, too. they often try to follow the girls home. anyway, for me, strip joints are good fodder for writing, but not of much use otherwise. they're money-sucking ventures, by their very nature. if i'm going to throw money at something for sex kicks, i'll probably just hire a whore & be done w/ it.

it's not usually solitary moments that get me down. even when the spouse & i were working in different states & rarely saw each other, the lonesome feelings didn't cripple me. i lived a cloistered, solitary existence for years & it didn't bother me. but other shit can definitely get to me. what actually gets me down is a creeping, chronic fear of being misunderstood. of living & dying misunderstood. half the time, it's as if i'm speaking in a foreign language. all of my ideas might as well be rolling out in some unknown tongue, for all the better they're being understood. i also scare people off w/o meaning to. i'm told frequently that i'm "too weird", whatever the fuck that means. i have a lot of ideas bouncing around in my brain--ideas that i feel are dynamic & provocative--but nobody seems to understand what i'm saying. i despise not being understood. how the fuck am i supposed to save the world if people won't listen to me? i try my best to make people understand what i'm about. but i'm often ignored. sometimes, people cloud the issue: "jesus, you write some sick stuff." ok, kiddies...can anybody burn through the shock value--often unintentional--& comprehend what the fuck i'm trying to say? no? well, that's what i thought. it's too damn difficult for some people. but perhaps it's not their fault. maybe i'm just nuts. as a kid, i was overwhelmed by this delusion that i was mentally ill & people were just powdering my ass & not telling me. like i was this total raving mental case & people were just being nice to me & humoring me all the time. i was afraid that i was mentally retarded & no one was telling me. when people continuously failed to understand me, it just hammered the point home all the more. i eventually concluded that people couldn't understand me simply because i was just too damn crazy to make sense. but i'm not crazy, doc. i'll keep jamming my ideas & words up america's collective ass until somebody listens. my goal is to combat depression by world conquest.

Definitely a subgenius, all right. $30 is not that much, I'm telling you, plus you get a lot of stuff... "Bob" is waiting...

"what actually gets me down is a creeping, chronic fear of being misunderstood. of living & dying misunderstood." halleluja and sweet jesus amen my ass to that sister i scanned thru the subgenius site, it's overated. The pictures section is halfway amusing but the "doctrine" and what not seems like a collective of bored peeps, nothing wrong with that.... back to the thread, nothing cures the blues like a good score at the rekid shop.....i went during lunch ....SCORE!!!! cd Junior Wells- "It's my life baby!" cd vinyl VU-self titled (notht at i don't have everything by these guys, but these are unreleased tracks and it is actually one of my fav collections Brian Eno- On Land -Ambient #4 Gang of Four- Songs of the Free Bootsy's Rubber Band-This Boot is made for Fonkon (this is ahot item, it still has the collector 8-page Almost Comic Coloring Book) Bootsy-Whats Bootsy Doing? Wire-Ahead Chrome Cranks-Oily Cranks so i ain't so lonely, or rather I won't be lonely with out some good tunes to help pass the time...........

Sometimes being lonely helps us to appreciate those we take for granted. Or it can be a good time to masturbate.

Loads of self-pity herein: I think I know a taste of what you're experiencing, Crimson....the frustration of not being heard and acknowledged. This is very small potatoes in comparison but... I have this problem with my mother not wanting to acknowledge anything is wrong with me. Anything wrong *at all*. She came to see me on Tues night (right after that yucky caffeine experience) and afterwards she sent me this email: "How very clever of you to tell me about your "drug reaction" and hence inability to work on your paper during your withdrawals, er, I mean, convalescence in front of Lorraine [friend who joined us Tues]. Pretty clever, but not clever enough, sister!" WTF? Like I made the whole thing up. Since we're being personal: I have fertility problems and have to take some medicine to help some of the problems out...one of the medications being the Pill. It upsets her so much that I take that, like she thinks it means I'm bad or something. And she won't talk about the infertility at all and she thinks that there's nothing really wrong with me and that the doctors are just being overcautious. She's the one who tells me to "just calm down" when i have a panic attack. She probably wouldn't even have believed me about having them in the first place had not my school guidance counselor (without my permission, btw) confirmed what I had been saying all along. It gets funny sometimes. Now, I'm not a troll, but I'm no fox either, and she absolutely will not acknowledge that I have any physical flaws. AND YET, she is so pretty and won't listen to anyone tell her that! She thinks she has this big hook nose, and we've taken pictures of her nose just to prove to her how straight it is and she still won't believe us. Hello? It's funny, but still...it's like, why bother even talking? So then she wonders why I don't tell her anything personal anymore. You can't have it both ways. You can't want me to talk and then continue to minimize and disregard the things I say. You can't expect me to continue to open myself up to frustration at talking and not being listened to. *grrrrr*

Rhiannon! My mom does the same thing. I've been through bad depressions that were characterized by anxiety and panic. She does not want me to ever, ever talk about it. Now any sign of anything going wrong in my life, she does not want to hear it at all. She says 'oh, life is hard'. DUH. A lot of times I catch myself minimizing bad things that are happening to me because I have learned to be afraid of anything rocking the boat. I'm getting way better at facing the bad stuff instead of just burying it and getting all screwed up inside. All I wanted was for her to listen and sympathize but she just couldn't because she's my mom and she wants to make the world alright for me, and she can't, because a mom can't crawl into your brain and fix serotonin levels. So she reacts with this panicky 'everything's alright quit being so melodramatic' thing. It INFURIATES me when I feel like she doesn't believe me and like I'm making it all up. The thing is that the depression/anxiety runs in my family and so my grandma had it, all my aunts, and my mom as well all had it. She should recognize it above anyone else but she has just dealt with this differently than me, to somehow not be honest about it is how she copes, and she has every right to cope with it any way she needs to. But I wish she'd acknowledge that I'm not full of shit. Oh I love her so much when I think of whatever pain it is inside her that keeps her from being able to talk to me about it. I probably got too personal here but what you wrote just hit me square between the eyes, it was so familiar.

hey sem, re subgenius, check this out, this is a local "group" similar to the subgenius folk....sorta, http://la.cacophony.org/

What are we, twins?! You and I are going through the same thing! I do that too...minimize my own problems because I'm used to hearing that they're not a big deal. (Well, you can't tell that here...but I do in real life! Really!) And then when they are a big deal, they kick my ass because i've tried to ignore them or swallow them and so I'm not prepared to deal with them when they roar back to life. My mom's had problems, too. I think that's why she minimizes mine...because she had a psycho family and I don't (well, not compared to hers, anyway), so she must feel I have nothing to complain about. Is it the same way with you? Another thing I do (maybe you too? Though it's kind of unhealthy...please don't get offended if you don't relate): When things really disturb me, I'll get physically ill. Usually in the form of a fever. Without fail. "Disturb" meaning, make me feel creepy and gross. That's actually the form my anxiety attacks first took. I would be sitting in class in high school and out of the blue I would feel absolutely disgusting and humiliated and so awful and bad. Then it would go away in 10 minutes. Anyway, any time anything happens that makes me really feel disgusting, I'll have a fever by the next day. I've never been able to figure out how this happens.

my wife gets panic attacks, her high levels of stress with work, she is so depended on there, and I suppose at home, thought i try and counterbalance that through various methods..... but with her, her right arm goes numb and tingly. Which if I am not mistaken, this can be a sign of a heart attack or stroke, right beav? Turns out her neck muscles pinch a few nerves in her neck causing her arm to feel tingly. Anyway, she also gets physically ill from stress and panick, her heart starts to hurt.... i guess what i am saying is of course stress and panic affects others differently, but what never ceases to amaze me is what power the state of mind has over the body........the fact you get feverish, which is otherwise a defense mechanism of your body to virus and bacteria, acts up over stress........it's just fascinating.

I think when my mom was young she probably dreamed of escaping the craziness of what depression did to her family, and will avoid craziness in the present at all costs as a result, even when someone she really loves is saying 'help! I'm feeling really crazy here!'. The good news is that I'm starting to empathize with her and just accept that where she is in dealing with her feelings about depression is where she is and it's not my job to fix her. It's just made me feel so much love for her to see her as a fellow person who is struggling as much as I am to deal with what's inside. When I experience panic episodes I feel incredibly agitated and want to shove everyone in the world away from me, literally. Like a few times I have slept on the floor because otherwise I would have violently pushed my boyfriend right out of the bed while he slept. So, I get agitated, and my heart pounds, and all I want to do is FREAK. The recurring mental image is either shooting myself in the foot or jumping off something. RRRAAAARRRRHHHHH! I know it sounds like I'm a kook but actually I'm feeling incredibly healthy because I'm getting help in a variety of ways and can feel myself growing. The most persistent physical symptom of depression that I get is headaches. The mind-body connection is totally fascinating to me, too. One thing that really comforted me that I read last night in The Road Less Traveled was that the author of this book (M. Scott Peck) basically said that the world is full of tiny miracles all consisting of the same theme, and the theme is this: we should all be WAY more screwed up than we are. Anyhoo, I'm now dragging my boyfriend who is studying too much to an artsy film about Paul Bellini, who you will know as the fat guy in the towel from many a Kids in the Hall skit. The film is about how he tries to meet Shania Twain (they're both from Timmins, Ontario). I hope it's good.

Well, I started getting anxiety symptoms the other day, after not having any for quite a while. For me, it comes as a tingling across the back of my neck and my shoulders, and sometimes down my arms. The depression's been around as long as I can recall (back as far as kindergarten at least). Luckily, the last couple of years have been much better for me. Recently, though, there's been enough crap coming together at once. Taken individually, it's small things, but all together, it gets overwhelming. Like how work is pretty much my structure these days, and how the social life falls by the wayside. Like how I've got both of my housemates moving out, and no one good lined up to take their places. Like working on Thanksgiving (which itself wasn't so bad), and having to come home to an empty house. Like not being able to organize a New Years party, cuz my friends either made plans long ago, or they still can't commit. Like the fact that I'm turning thirty next year, and Valentine's day will likely see me single still. Like the fact that I cannot tell a dear friend how crazy I am for her, because any time I try triggers all the anxiety all over again. And not telling her triggers it just as bad. Damn. Self pity time? Five or six years ago, I was barely functioning. Now, I'm working as a supervisor at work, and growing into the job incredibly well. I've got a lot more on the ball than I did. But I still feel like I've got such a ways to go. I've got an appointment to see a psychiatrist on Monday. That should be a good start. I'll see if he prescribes anything for me. I should be able to talk a good game; I've dispensed nearly all of the medications he might consider, from anti-depressants to neuroleptics, like risperdal and seroquel. Wish me luck. And for anyone who's actually read all of this, thanks. I needed to rant.

Rhiannon, I used to get sick all the time when I was stressed out. When I was younger I missed a lot of school because I hated it so much it would really make me sick. Usually stomach aches. Semillama, I think you're very charming. But then I currently have crushes on two boys, so I'm a ho.

I take all kinds of med's for that,I,ve drove twice this last year,only following my huasband to pick up rent-a car. I got it bad.

it was kinda cool to pop back in & see all the subgenius references. i've known about the church of the subgenius since the early '80s & have met some people who've long been associated w/ it. one of the major subgenius popes is buddies w/ my next door neighbor; another friend of mine knows ivan stang. there's a strong subgenius presence in little rock, or at least there was in the past. i haven't really gotten to check out the subgenius websites & stuff, though. i'm also familiar w/ the cacaphony society. anyway, there's a big arkansas/texas connection w/ the church of the subgenius...a lot of those guys used to run a circuit between dallas & little rock. as for the self-pity, i've noticed something: it's almost always intelligent people who get eaten alive by angst. very few idiots worry about anything. it's generally the brighter people who tend to over-process information & freak out. the higher up the evolutionary ladder you crawl, the more angst you accumulate. the morons of the world don't really think about their actions. they never sit around contemplating their next move, or how people will react to them. they just switch off their brains & barge on, full speed ahead. they act w/o thinking, & then other people--the thinking people--will hang around & pick up the pieces after them, after they've long since moved on to their next disaster. i used to say that i wish there were moments when i could just be a happy idiot...turn off my brain & forge ahead, happy & smiling. but not really. i'd rather be aware, even though awareness can often be painful. ever notice how many problems generate from other people? you can live your life out in a calm, cool, laid-back fashion. there's never a problem until some random jerk (or more likely, one of your own family members, friends or lovers) starts having a problem w/ the way you conduct your personal business. few things are ever a problem until some asshole MAKES it a problem.

The Bellini film was cute. It was called "Bellini's Drive" which was a reference to how in the movie the city of Timmins named a major road 'Shania Twain Way'. This bothers Paul Bellini because he always expected himself to be the 'most famous person from Timmins'. Then out of nowhere comes this little chicky who sells like 10 million records and totally eclipses his local fame. He says 'I never sought acceptance' and spends a lot of the movie looking scornfully at Shania Twain as he follows her around his hometown. But he admitted that he was very jealous. I think it's exactly what you were talking about Crimson: she stands for everything that he rages against and mocks, yet everyone adores her and she has achieved enough success that people will name major thoroughfares after her and she's a multimillionaire. It's so unfair! But if the REALLY cool and self-aware people achieved success then they couldn't be cool anymore, could they? Bellini says in the movie that it's a prerequisite to be an artist to be an outsider. Some guy behind me in the movie theatre snickered after that comment for like two minutes.

what's weird is that lately, the stuff written bewtween the lines in teh Book of the SubGenius and Revelation X have helped me avoid the crushing bouts of self-pity that until recently i was plagued with. ( how's that for combining two different subjects on this thread). One thing is that it helps me see how totally ridiculous life is and why I should never take it too seriously, or myself for that matter. another is that I know there's this huge community of people out there with similar senses of humor and attitudes (barely, but it's there). So, on the thing that causes the most mental anguish w/ me (being single), the Church has this - the Elder Gods are simply steering me towards my True Yeti Mate - the one other Yeti Self my True Yeti Self was bonded to millennia ago in Fabled Mutantis. (The Elder gods really got off on riding the ethereal emissions from a good walloping session of yeti sex) It all sounds immensely stupid, of course, but did not "Bob" himself say "The more stupid something appears, the more important it probably is"? so, the lesson here, folks: when life gives you lemons, give 'em to the lady who can fit apples in her butt.

Rhiannon: I get S.A.D. at this time of year, and I live in the southern hemisphere. There's this ghastly progression of final exams, the beginning of summer, Christmas, New Year, my birthday, then summer summer summer til I could scream. So it's part holiday overload and part hating summer. It's un-Australian to hate summer, though, so I get to have S.A.D. and feel alienated as well!

"the morons of the world don't really think about their actions. they never sit around contemplating their next move, or how people will react to them. they just switch off their brains & barge on, full speed ahead. they act w/o thinking, & then other people--the thinking people--will hang around & pick up the pieces after them, after they've long since moved on to their next disaster." wow, this makes me feel a little better, although i am the king of hindsight.......so then again, maybe I AM that moron, self-pity and depracation have reached a high. this weekend was somewhat miserable. Friday nite I went to see Marky Ramone, uneventful, (however i did see this band from atlanta called the Forty Fives, HIGHLY recommend them!!) Anyway, i got really drunk, that always happens at al's bar, they serve their beers in large stadium/souvenier cups so you end up slugging them at a rapid rate, an internal fear of the warm shit at the bottom. Sat, i had such a pathetic hangover. But i spent alot of time alone. I went to the diner for breakfast alone, i have never done that, sat at the counter alone, of course I got the paper and read, but it felt really strange, but he waitress was extra sweet, she called me "sweetie" and "honey"..this made me feel good, i appreciated her for that more than she knew. later that evening i went to my photography teachers art opeing at his studio. It was nice and all, but I didn't know anyone and i went alone. I felt really pathetic. I gave the photographs more time than they deserved and stuck around to drink enough wine to get my $5 tip's worth. I left after 20 minutes. I ducked out and went home. I fetl pathetic, alone, scared, dependent on something of which i have no control, later around 11pm, angry sam called, he was done with the play and at a bar, i came like wildfire. this bar is known for the hollywood types. It's usually enetertaining watching them all flirt, dance, essentially FUCK, this nite was no exception except one of them, a "friend" of ours, named Iris, the most catty woman I have ever met. She has taken pock shits at Nico at times to her face insuch a subtle way and overal made anb ass out of herself, somy opion is not high to begin with. the minute i walked in without my wife, she couldn't keep her paws off me, she even bluntly asked me to take her home. I said "do you need a ride?" I didn't want to tkae her home at all, but i wasn't going to be mean if she NEEDED a ride.(she lives 20 minutes in the OPPOSITE direcetion), She muttered to her other friend, and angry's sam's date, and then she, R, whispers to me, "will you fuck iris tonight?" Not that I hadn't figured out by know i could have taken this route. Her clinging to my chest, getting really close to my face, "accidentally" rubbing her ass on my groin" when Hendirx came on the juke,,,these tell all clues told me i could have shagged her that evening, she is kinda cute and has a nice figure but otherwise the most repulsive, catty, evil, two -faced hollywood bitch. So i replied to her friend, "seeing as how little respect she has for my wife, no way! and even if I didn't have a wife, i would have to be pretty drunk" It's so funny, she spent all of this time saying, "oh i miss nico, she soooo cool, when is she coming back?, we have to hang out...blah blah blah" I just wanted to slap her. So i went home bewildered, confused, and a little titilated at the thought of sex in general, but most of all, I just wanted my wife to come home. i am tired of sleeping alone, i am tired of getting her phone calls early in the am, when i am hungover, half asleep...i essentially remember nothing from these calls. I haven't talked to her in just baout a week, at least in a level headed state. And after reading the justified reaction to my words to sarah, feeling the regret for my lack of tact, feeling misunderstood and feeling alienated from my peers, to the above statement that crimson made, as right as you are, i have a hard time deciding which side of that fence i am on, at times, with those words you brought it to light. thanks how's that for self fucking pity, thank you goodnight!

You did Nico proud,I know how bitchy women are,thank God you did,t dip your wick in that!Believe me when I tell you,she would go out of her way to make sure Nico knew.If it,s any comfort to you,I,ve been swimming in the pity pool myself,at least you saw Angrey Sam.

angry sam, knows and loves me, he keeps me comapny ALOT when she is gone. Last ngith after i spent 6 hours at the darkroom with splendid results, i went and had submarine sandwiches with him at his house, we decorated his house with dysfunctional and mutilated xmas decorations. the thing that really pissed me off was this girl has called our house, kissed nico's ass, yet she turned 31 that nite she hit on me, and she would spread her legs for the wind if it had a penis, she had no respect my nico or herself for that matter but thats her problem

no that anyone seems to care, except J, but she always sweet like that, so onward christian soldier i did finally speak to the wifey today, i told her about the events, boy was she fuming, she was fuming at the fact that "I" was so bluntly hitting on me and willing to spread her legs had i chose to and the other girl, R, well she was almost acting as a facilitator of the whole god damn thing. R, is angry sam's girlfriend and we have had a rocky past with her anyway, but again, these girls acted with zero respect for wifey, she was fuming at 6 am Tuesday in her tiny Tokyo hotel, i urged restraint but she is on a rampage when she comes back........it's reasons like this that she hates girls and has really only guys for true friends.....i understand this,

You know what's really fun? When you start hating others as much as you hate yourself. I thought I was through with that too, and then today I took a nap and was wakened (awakened? awoken? woken? wtf?) by the girls in my enclave squealing in the hall. I forgot I could be feel such hatred. I'm surprised it didn't seep under my door in their direction like smoke. Where did it come from? I think I'm going crazy. For real. My brain will not work anymore. I can't concentrate on anything. i can't get anything done. I don't want to talk to anyone. My mom called this afternoon and I could barely speak to her...I just couldn't do it! I couldn't talk. People drive me crazy. They're so exhausting. The garbage you have to put up with all the time from them. God, I sound like Henry Rollins. If I ever get to that level of misanthropy, I'll kill myself, no doubt about it. That poor man. Hang in there, Patrick. I bet your wife misses you as much as you miss her. Hey, you know what I used to do when I was little and my mom would leave me with a babysitter? I would go into her closet and take one of her shirts that she had recently worn and carry it around with me and sleep with it, because it smelled like her. I don't know...I was, like, six when I did this, but... I know I'm going crazy. I can't stand to hear people laughing. I'm talking about strangers laughing....if I'm involved in the conversation, it's okay. It's like, just the sound of laughter without all the good feelings that go with hearing it. Laughter is so ugly when you overhear it. It sounds like people barking. Ugh, and when girls squeal...*blecch* Shove me down a flight of stairs if I ever do that. I've never done that...squealed like that. I swear. You know why? Ha! Because when I was at the age for doing that I was so angry all the time! Like now! God almighty, I thought I had gotten rid of this. The funny thing is...look what I want to go into! I want to be a therapist! Look how messed up I am! This is hilarious. Back to work.

thanks rhi, i called when she was getting up (Tuesday)and i was already here at work, so we were able to have a normal conversation. I just have to make it to Thursday nite, and i will try and stop whinning about it, i know its a drag, but at least i can stick to your thread. I use her pillows when she is gone and she also has this little stuffed lamb she got from the local street fair, his name is Lamby, she sleeps with him every nite tucked under her body and he smells like her too, these things make me happy. Plus for the last week, the kitties have been crawling underneath the sheets in the middle of the night and sleeping by my feet and butt. I suppose it's warm down there, it has been a little cold, but they miss "mommy" too.......god I am such a sap!!!!!!!!

You're not whining and you're not a sap. It's a good sign, anyway, that you miss her so much. It's because she means so much to you.

patrick, you're not a sap. you're a sweetheart. there's a difference sometimes. gotta say it...your wife is very lucky to have someone who cares so deeply. i wanted to respond to your post, to let you know that i hear what you're saying. that i identify. solidarity & all that. but i'm such a goddamn clown sometimes...i mean, not like a ha-ha funny clown, but like a serious 14-karat bozo. i have a way of being too warped to say anything comforting, even when i try. i often feel that my posts are rather inappropriate & bizarre (which is why i lurk more than i post--at least until recently, anyway). i figured that maybe you weren't really in the mood to be comforted by a human cartoon. however, i do care, which is my nature. i really do care what happens to people. which makes me a sucker, but what the hell. rhiannon, don't worry. you're not turning into rollins just yet. when you don't feel good to begin with, the laughter of others can be annoying as hell. for me, the sound of kids squeaking, squealing & laughing makes me want to put my fist through the wall...not just when i'm down, but pretty much any old time. as far as i'm concerned, that either makes me a glaring misanthrope or SANE, depending on how you look at it. self-pity. dredging my soul for any fragments of self-pity. ah, here's one. it's that damn communication issue again. i want more than anything to communicate, to be heard & understood. i don't think i've achieved it & i don't think i'm even fucking close. i'm a nutcase w/ a brain full of weird ideas. i'm the kid back on the school playground nobody wanted to talk to. but that's OK, because i talk to myself now.

When all else fails, try a fifth of Bacardi and a bottle of cough syrup with codeine. The world will still suck but you won't give a damn.

ok, wine, smoke...junior wells on repeat/random, thank you girls, that means the world to me, tonight in the on going soapfuckdishwash clean doodoo XMAS SHOPPING we have both have been busy, she in katmandu me in rio what to do? what to do? silly family traditions draw names all family on eastern seaboard UPS is running late ....YES?! she says ...."Tiffany's!!!" they say, "we don't have that necklace with the circle pendant, only the heart shaped one...." i say..."the heart shape pendant and silver chain is cheesey, the heart shape pendant anyway, and she has the bracelet to match...with the circle..that is..leave the hearts for old men, blood types and dogs with leukemia .......she's hot man.....c'mon, you guys can do that right?!!!!! ..."no you have to call the local..." "hello Beverly Hills Tiffany's?" "yes?" "FIRST!!!!...you suck for being in beverly hills, thats a 20min drive and a $2dollar parking fee." "can i help you today sir?" "yeah! "My wife wants.......... "call who?" (transfering) "HI YOU HAVE REACHED THE DESK OF........" FUCK! ********************************************** ..."hello victoria secret..?" RIGHT!!!!!! so the family is way back where, we have to ship the shit, deadline oh so very soon! modeling in SF this weekend, xmas mad shop fuck oneday ship tuesday hate xmas fuck online is the way baby (PASS THE WINE KITTY!!!!!!!!!) "yeah that" "card" "ship here" "3 days" "fuck you" "ok" "oh yeah?" ".....you will hear from the Mrs."

heart jewelry sucks

thats what i was *trying* to say, geeze, lay off the wine.............

i KNOW i was just supporting the point

i think a misunderstanding just occured. i was talking to myself about laying off the wine and and I was expressing my surprise that you even understood my point, i know you were supporting it.....i could have written that more precisely,

Hold out for the one that matches the braclet.

crimson, keep talking, i'm listening and you and rhi seem to be one of the last few females that don't have issues with me around, (i haven't made this many enemies in my entire life combined, muchless 6 months of hangin around here) .....i aim to keep it that way. your posts are in no way inappropriate or bizarre, despite what some may think there is no code. Post anything you like, chances are, knowing a little bit about you, or at least the digits i see on my screen, chances are, i will respond, so fuck everyone else, and keep talking, i am glad you stopped lurking and started poking your head out more.....and i think most will agree. The "my aura, some guys panties and a grin" has to be one of the best thread creations i have ever seen, that and antigone's head thingy....... thats the plan J, but i have to get them to custom make it it becasue ordering via the catalog, it's ready made, so I have to go to the local store and hassle those people to get it right. I hate beverly hills, and the assholes that live there....it's SUV hell!

'so fuck everyone else' Listen, I'm not religious really. But a major religious figure from a major religion, not that it matters, but he said something to the effect of 'if you love only those who love you, what credit is it to you?'. I don't give a rip if your beliefs are different than mine, and I like hearing other opinions, but I do think there is something to be said for attempting to react to opposition with empathy. Threats do not lie in wait everywhere waiting to pounce, do they?

oh my gawd, the crazy girl from saturday nite who was trying to get in my pants, she had the nerve to call me....unfortunately for evidence sake, my god damn answering machine cut off in the middle of her message. It does that randomly, of all the messgaes this was not one of them. I suspect she was calling to invite me out for drinks, she knows mny wife doesn't come back until Thursday.

oh, i called her back thinking she was gonna ask me out for drinks or something.... she was calling to apologize to me, I told her that she really needs to apologize to my wife for that was who she disrespected the most....not me.

no apology is necessary. in fact, neither of you should ever bring the incident up again. does she know your wife? if so, she's a lousy friend or whatever. but if she doesn't know your wife, then she certainly doesn't owe her an apology. my god I am so fucking tired. I have no idea how you people can stand working full-time. it's AWFUL.

so patrick, why did you r e a l l y call her back?

That was very nice, Wonk.

patrick--just wanted to thank you for your kind words. appreciate it. no shit. it means a lot. [suddenly laughing over having actually typed "appreciate it". i used to assume that people said that everywhere. if somebody's nice to you, or does business w/ you, or anything else, you just say (or write) "appreciate it!" then i started doing some business w/ some people on the east coast. soon enough, i started getting these really nasty letters back--"are you telling me i'd better appreciate something here? well, i can do without your arrogant attitude..." & i'm sitting there wondering what kind of blatant goddamn morons some of these people must be. i'm telling them that i appreciate their business, & they're ready to nail me to the wall for it. go figure.]

That made me flash on Ryans trip to New York City this summer,his girlfriend is from there,he,d never been there before,all my kids have good manners(around people other than me).He offered a pregnant woman his seat as she was standing on the bus and he was sitting,she totally went off on him,he was shocked,getting ripped for trying to be nice.Then he told me about some really wierd looking bum that he asked if he could take his picture,the bum let him,I asked him if he gave the bum a buck or two,he didn,t. I thought that was kind of rude.

yes she knows my wife, apology is TOTALLY necessary, at least in a symbolic way, she has kissed my wife's ass and posed as her friend and such for a few months now. The thing with this girl is THIS, she is 31, she doesn't have boyfriend and very open about how long she has n't had sex, in fact angry sams brother got caught in the pussy fly trap one night, it was a drunken stupo ok here you are hangin out at my house anyway so lets fuck type of thing. SHE WENT Nuts, she wnated him so bad, calling us to give her the scoop, he never called her, never returned her phone calls, she basically failed to take a hint from a one night stand, but she is extremely despeerate and this is not the first time she has made an ass of herself becasue of her desperation........I have tried encouraging nico to let it go, but she was just fuming. THIS is the kind of shit that really gets her, especially when she can be such a good friend, especially when all of her other girlfriends call on her like she is a fucking psychologist (well actually she has a degree), whine, bitch moan, she listens, she is too nice, and then one of the cunts who sap her for her good nature goes and puts the make on her husband, i'd be pissed too, i'd vent like gaseous elephants.....fuck it, people suck..... but after i relayed the apology, she seemed to cool down, i dunno...........i suspect she will have words with this dumb cunt, and it always turns me on to see my wife display her strength... the thing is cyst, we are really good friends to people we let in to our lives. We are both, loyal, honest and good natured, and when assholes fuck up, we take it very seriously......it's alack of effort, respect on their part...people suck! dave i wouldn't fuck her with your dick man...

I don,t think she nor Angry Sam,s girlfriend are fit to be your friends,dis them,then give Angry Sam,Cranky Jan,s phone #.I,ve had so called friends like that,and before I got mad,well it just hurts.

angry sam is going with em to my company xmas party tonight. that will keep a few in the office guessing... "...psspspspppspps....i thought he had a wife.........yeah he DID.....pspspppssppspsstppsppsp.......yeah "WIFE"......RIGHT!...pssspsppsspppsppp"

Oh then give them something to talk about.Report back here with all the sordid details.

it's all fucked. avoid the chick. avoid hanging out with angry sam when his girlfriend's around. I don't know. if she's cute, I'm sure she can find some single guy to screw. pretty much any woman can.

angry sam has been a friend too long and too good to both nico and i to let some 15 minute borad of his get in the way, we just ignore her, and she is not so much the problem, in fact it's really not worht all this conversation, sorry to make it more than it really is..... as desperate as she is, i think she turns away more guys than not, it's really quite amazing.... how are you today? sick? unemployed? have a nice day!

Today, I am tired got really stoned and drunk last night, but didn't score

I hope you're referring to hockey

You can't score if you can only shoot at 58 MPH. More effort Bk.....more effort!!!!!

I'm getting over my cold, and I'm temping at one of america's super evil corporations. but I plan never to work a five-day week there. and two of my three days so far have been short. I can't fucking stand it. it's truly awful. I'm getting a belly from eating christmas food (according to the scale at the gym, I've gained a pound and a half in the last week), and I'm just about to try to squeeze into a super little cocktail dress to go to my lawyer friend's christmas party at the firm. I want to take the bus there so I can get drunk, but I'm going to be wearing the PARTY SHOES. I can barely walk to the bathroom in them.

I'm so tired of office Christmas parties. I went to my old division's party today and I was describing my new responsibilities to an old client who was asking me about my new job. Then he says 'but...you're so young!' in this snotty way. I felt like clobbering him. Fuckin jerk.

"you're so young:" isn't exactly an insulyt. ok. so I drank a lot tonight. the office party was great. there's so much more gossip at law firms than oftware companies. there are more mid-life crises and partners running off with associates, leaving their wives and kids, so they end up sitting next to me on the couch by the booze. it was so funny. we drank white russians and margaritas and red wine. and ate salmon and prawns and, well, the rest doesn't really matter. pecans and chocolate? I don't remember. then we went to the last shitty bar in downtown portland and I drank what the waitress recommended, her own concoction, mandarin orange absolut with seven-up and pineapple juice. "did you taste the vodka" she asked. "no," I said. "he used A LOT, " sjhe said. then we went to shandhai tunnel and I drank another margarita. ` then I started driving jhome without my headlights on. only for two blocks. I got home ok. I didn;t kill any pedestrians or anything. this is a reallt boring story. at least I recognize that. ready for more? I had six messages when I got home. opne was from my mother,. she said she wants to borrow my party shoes for her christmas party. another was from one of the guys I am dating. another was from one of my friends who hgraduated from law school this year. I don't know what she wanted. another was from my roommate, saying that a friend of mine called to tell me that her friend who goes to my gym got her lock cut and got some stuff ripped off. another was from a friend in seattle who brioke up with her boyfriend rexcently. does poland border russia?

oh fucking right on. I got in an argument with a bunch of lawyers and other assorted presumably smart people about whether russia borders poland. I said NO. it cannot possibly border russia. I said, it cannotborder russia (except for that little military piece of russia that sits on the baltic, but that doesn't count, civilians have never been allowed there), because first there's ukraine, then (northward) belarus, lithuania, latvia and estonia. nowhere could poland and russia touch. but SO MANY people argued the opposite, a bunch of lawyers plus their wives plus an dinternational relations student at st. andrews in soctland. one of the lawyers said I'VE CROSSED THE POLAND/RUSSIA BORDER. so I thought, oh my god, maybe I learned FUCKING NOTHING the whole time I was over there, MAYBE I AM TOTALLY STUPID. BUT I WAS RIGHT. but the sad thing is (besides the fact that I care) is that THEY WILL NEVER KNOW I WAS RIGHT. god. lame. if you care, which you shouldn't: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/commonwealth/Russia.94.jpg

You are RIGHT!!!! The lawyer who crossed the Russia/Poland border is mistaken as he probably crossed the Poland/USSR border before the breakup of the Soviet Union. Why did everyone think USSR was Russia? Good for you Cyst..... and you're not just another pretty face.

Maybe they were thinking of the former Soviet Union.

It always amazes me how incredibly stupid "educated" people can be. Like the Doctor that tried to tell me that there was no part of Canada that you drove north to get to America. So of course I point out Alaska, then I point out Detroit city/Windsor. But the arrogant fuck would only accept Alaska. then when I pointed out that canada actually goes below the 42nd parallel in one spot he got down right fucking nasty to me so I had to "accidentaly" stand on his foot as I introduced my beer to his $3000 suit. (<character flaw> if you piss me off I get you back, usually in a childish way)

they must have been thinking of the former soviet union. if I hadn't been so drunk last night, I would have known they were all wrong. but I guess lawyers really do know how to act like they are right even when they aren't. I almost conceded when like five hotshot attorneys all said, "yeah, it does," and spoke to me really politely and condescendingly about how screwy the borders are over there.

I was pretty sure today would suck. I was right again. my friend said it wasn't ok to go to bars and order sprite. lawyers are really catty. the guy who's next in line for partner made some comment to the 30-year-old former secretary who married her 50-something boss. "well, I was only his secretary for three weeks, and he was out of town the whole time," she reportedly said. (then how did they meet, I wonder.) the partner / former business suit model who sat next to me made some self-deprecating comments about his mid-life crisis and his red sports car and the blond 20-something girlfriend (who was an associate at the firm for a few months before she left and shacked up with the model attorney; she did not attend the party) he dumped his wife and kids for. no one could figure out who the chick in the hot pink leopard print stretch shirt with the skintight fluorescent orange jeans was with.

I,m with Proud Canadian, you should have 'tripped'spilt your drink on them,then fall to the floor and start crying about how bad your back hurts,just incase they try to make you pay for their dry cleaning.

Your first mistake was to think you could fuck with the ranch Here I come, here I come, with my dick in my hand Do you think you'd like to have a blockbuster up your ass Do you think you'd like that, well do ya motherfucker Do ya, motherfucker Do ya We'll smash your eggs and then your head and we'll nab your kids Take 'em outback on the deck and barbeque their ribs Throw their heads into your ivy, water them with piss Do you think you'd like that, well do ya motherfucker Do ya, motherfucker Do ya Your first mistake was to think you could fuck with the ranch Here I come, here I come, with my dick in my hand Do you think you'd like to have a blockbuster up your ass Do you think you'd like that, well do ya motherfucker Do ya, motherfucker Do ya, motherfucker Do ya, motherfucker Do ya --D. Yow

what are you doing Rhi? cyst you just further entrenched my deep hatred for lawyers...no offense H wherever you are, but damn!

Maybe the Czar was there, and personally escorted them across the border. Or it might have been Anastasia. Oh,I miss the old days, there's just nothing like a big tasty bowl of borsch.

What's the difference between a dead snake and a dead lawyer in the road? The dead snake will have skid marks in front of it.

I normally don't care when people comment on my age at work but it bothers me when they say it like a put-down. I refuse to grow a thick skin.

Cyst cyst cyst -drinking and driving? Do you know how much money that shit can cost you? Fuck i got lucky and it's going to end up costing me at least $3000. Not to mention the stupid classes they make you attened. What happened to the bus? Take a cab, for crying out loud! If i lived there, i would chaffeur you around for free, because it ain't a good thing to be drinking and driving.

ok.

but those calsses actually teach you how to be a better drunk driver right?

but those classes actually teach you how to be a better drunk driver right?

Kind of.

I fyo mean by showing you how incredibly stupid it is, yes. They also show you how easy it is for cops to bust you. About the only way to get out of a DUI is if the cop doesn't read you your rights. I swear to god, i really could use that $3000 right about now... Not to mention the horror of watching informational fims made in 1974...

A woman in New Jersey just got a 60-year prison sentence for hitting a car and killing 4 people while she was drunk. She, of course, was fine. Use your heads, please.

Goddamn it, I just read most of the above for the first time. I'm pissed off at the asshole lawyers on the Poland/Russia thing. Yeah, a little late, but righteous anger is always timely.

60 yrs.? Justifiable/but amazing! Esp.when Marie Now only got sentenced to 20 yrs. probation after killing 8 of her children. I keep trying to post the link/but I won't work. Anyway/the Time article is here: http://www.pathfinder.com/time/magazine/articles/0,3266,27715,00.html or you can go to the type in Infanticide in the search engine/then look for the Marie Noe piece from 7/11/99: http://www.pathfinder.com/time/index.html But I've always been for a more centrist gov't. vs. all these individual state's rights. If abortion is legal in one state/or Murder 1 draws a mandatory life sentence in one state/then every state shd have the same felony penalties on the books. So poor people who can't aford to relocate aren't left to be judged by the whims of religious zelaots/like in parts Georgia & Alabama.

thank you, markus. I was a little angry at my friend for not telling them the next day, but he is the new kid on the block and has to kowtow to everyone else. I realized that lawyers probably always speak with that tone of authority even when they have no idea what they're talking about. even when they know they're wrong (which they didn't and probably never will). but I felt like they weren't taking me seriously. even though I had just gotten back from a year in ukraine, which is BETWEEN POLAND AND RUSSIA. my poor friend. he works there. he probably never gets to be right, even if he is.

one of them said to me, as if to explain how I could be so confused about east european geography, "those borders over there are always changing." I wanted to tell him back, "that's why YOU'RE wrong. you're confusing russia with the former soviet union." anyway, the borders have been pretty stable north of the black sea. not that they would have known where the black sea was. ok. I'm done being pissed. I can only hope I'll be matched against one of them on "jeopardy" someday.

Lawyers are total fucksticks.

mmmmm. french toast sticks.

Except for H who hasn,t posted for a long time.

whats a fuckstick? i want one, i think. a paint stirrer is coming to mind.....

stirrer? is that a word....how about dowel? maybe thats what i meant. uhg...three hours sleep and voila!

a friend of mine named brad is an electrician. here are some stories of lawyers and other wildlife from his early days working at his uncle's eletronics store. 1. the lawyer - my friend was sent to this guy's house to check his stereo system. the lawyer had installed it himself, or else had somebody do it for him. when brad was checking all the wiring, he found that the lawyer had tried to do something to the system that the stereo couldn't handle - extend it or something. anyway, brad told the guy that he couldn't do what he was doing. the lawyer got argumentitive about it. brad pointed out that one of the things he had done was a code violation. the lawyer said smugly: "oh yeah, what are you going to do about it?" lawyers generally feel untouchable about things like that. normally, brad wouldn't care, but the lawyer was so annoying that he sent the inspectors after him anyway. they had the guy rewire the system properly. 2. the doctor - this one had also wired his own stereo system. when it didn't work he had them come over to see what was wrong with the stereo. brad checked the wiring and found that the guy hadn't connected something or other, connected it, and that was that. the doctor, a surgeon, wouldn't accept that it was his error (that these surgeons's hands could do wrong), and argued that there's had to be something else wrong. brad told him that that was all he could find that was wrong, and if anything else went wrong to call the store. he never did. 3. the artist - some of you may actually know who van cliburn is - the concert pianist (the van cliburn piano competition?). anyway, he lives around here. he likes to turn his stereo up loud so it can be heard all over his big, posh house. if you listen to classical music, you know what an orchestraful of kettle drums, basses, cellos, bassoons, etc. can do to a speaker. because he is strange, van cliburn wouldn't let them wire speakers all over the house, so he would regularly blow his speakers and call them to complain. he also wouldn't accept the concept of not turning it up so loud. finally they sent brad over there with a story that he was going to install something to boost his stereo's capacity. brad just went there and wired the volume switch to kill before it got too loud. van cliburn called them a week later to say that his stereo had never worked better.

oh yeah - brad told me that every time they went to van cliburn's house he always met them in pajamas and a silk robe with a glass of scotch in his hand.

that's the life i want goddamnit.

Works for me. But then I've got speakers throughout the house.

well, yeah. i'd wire the whole house. i meant the glass of scotch, pyjamas and silk robe.

So did I. I've got no complaints about the lifestyle now that I fixed that wiring issue. The techs go around telling eccentric stories about me, though.

sheeeit.