Ok. I have a hugmongus paper due Tuesday and I have to do an oral presentation and hand out something. My paper is gonna be about how Western society views PMS and Menstruation. (It's a woman's psych class--gimme a break). Anyway, start writing stuff and help me out cuz I'm screwed as to what to do. Gimme opinions, perspectives and such. boys and girls please....I'm grasping here....I wanna make a page of quotes and use that as part of my presentation. I've already grabbed some stuff from people here but since I'm only in one corner of the state.....thought this would be a good way to get a broad range.. Ok so...

Why don't you write about how when women are flowin' heavy, are irritable, adn can't write their papers they go to strange internet boards for help? And how asshole guys make snide remarks about them.

Kalliope, what is the thrust of your paper? That Western society still sees menstruation as something dirty? That attitudes are changing? What kind of support would you like us to provide you with?

That's the general idea...that there is still a stigma attached to menstruation and PMS. However, if anyone has anything positive to say..I wanna hear that too. I have the paper pretty much planned out.(lots of research article from different psych journals) I just want to put a page of quotes together from different people all ages and gender and such. So rant. That's what I want. pleeeeease. ill love you all ferever and ever

antigone. yer so cute. wanna cookie?

Hmmm...I've never felt much of the stigma. I went to both an all-girls high school and college, and so I've always been in environments where we could talk pretty openly about all sorts of menstruation-related topics. My mother tried to keep me from being so open at home ("what if your brother hears you talking like this??"), but I've always figured that it's just a normal part of life...no reason to act like it's something to be ashamed of. (Except I'll tell you what *did* embarrass the almighty fuck out of me: when my father told me that I was "a woman now" after I got my first period. Please, guys, don't ever say that to your daughters.) Also, I have Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome, which means (in part) that my cycle is less like every 28 days and more like every 4 months, which might have something to do with why I don't seem to be as sick of the whole menstruation deal as most other females I know. [Sorry for the lack of quote-worthy sentences. I'm tired.]

i was told about periods about a week before i actually got my first one (at age 11). if that info would've come any later, i would've freaked out, not knowing what was happening to me. there was a HUGE stigma attached to periods. my folks embarrassed the fuck out of me. (yes, they also used that "she's a woman now!" line, which made me want to fucking die). anyway, kids didn't carry backpacks to school back then, so mom made me lug kotex around in a brown paper bag. everybody wanted to know what was in the bag. teachers stopped me in the hallway & inspected the bag. it was mortifying. i'm also an extremely heavy bleeder & bled through my clothing & got lectures from old ladies about being "unsanitary". seemingly nothing could control the bleeding. there were never enough pads to handle it. adults yelled at me for bleeding too much, but i couldn't help it. grown-ups were very unkind. by junior high school, i got the fuck over my shyness about periods. my friends all thought i was insane for talking about my period in front of boys, but screw it. being on the rag is part of life. i did have 2 mortifying moments in jr. high...one involved a pep rally. i was in my pep squad uniform (very short). we had to sit indian-style on the gym floor. i didn't realize until much later that i had gotten my period & my white cheerleader panties were soaked in blood & one whole side of the gym saw it. i also had to ask my math teacher once if i could leave the room. he was getting bitchy, demanding to know why. i finally blurted out the fact that i'd just bled all over my chair. he was horrified. he also let me go. & apologized profusely, in private. i once talked w/ my great-grandmother about periods. i was talking about how glad i was that adhesive pads had been invented (when i started having periods, there was only the old-fashioned kind, held on w/ a garter-type belt). she thought the adhesive pads were great, too. in her day, there were no pads, no kotex, no tampons, nothing. you had to boil rags. your whole period was spent away from men, boiling endless rags over a wood stove. a lady preacher once told me that god was against tampons, because they take your virginity. that was a very common notion. they were also thought to be seriously unclean. my folks wouldn't let me use them, because there were rumors of worms growing inside girls who put tampax inside their bodies.

i got my period when i was eleven. it was on the fourth of july. i told my mother about it, and she took me into the bathroom handed me a pad. she said nothing more to me, but she told my asshole stepfather, my brother, and the family that had come over for the bbq. i saw my friend downtown later that day, she told me she'd heard that i'd gotten my period. my brother was telling everyone. my mother used to use my period as an excuse. i wasn't feeling well, it was my period although it was no where near the time. i didn't smile for two years, it was my period. it had nothing to do with the fact that i lived in the household from hell. my mother took me to the doctor my senior year telling the doctor that my periods were making me cry all of the time. he gave me a perscription for prozac. my mother was shocked, she was sure it was a misdiagnosis. it was my period. since she accepted the prozac and dropped the period she tells everyone i'm bipolar. that's her excuse for me now. after three years of the bipolar thing i finally corrected her. i told her about my true diagnosis, i explained it was from childhood trauma. now she doesn't say anything. fucking periods. fucking bipolar. fucking mother. i do love her though, i don't want her to suffer. i just want her to see... i don't know

this is awesome you guys. thankyouuuuuuuuuu. keep it up. i feel like i should tell my little "story" too. (cuz its a lisa classic) I matured later than everyone else. I grew up in boarding schools. So, for most of my adolesence and childhood, I lived in an all girl dorm. Seventh grade, all the girls except me and another one, had gotten their periods. Finally, the other girl got hers and I was the only one left. I felt so left out, that I lied and pretended like I got it. I waited til there were other girls in the bathroom and yelled out....so they all thought I started. I even used to carry pads and tampons around and into the bathroom to add to the illusion. I didn't actually start til the summer before my freshman year. I had a waterbed at the time, and a lamp made out of an old bell jar. I got the bright idea to stick one of those huge energy saving bulbs on the lamp. The damn thing got top heavy, turned over, broke all under the waterbed mattress. I was able to keep it from leaking real bad for a couple of days by stuffing towels in between the frame and mattress. Then, on the third day, I started my period. I was afraid to tell my mother, because in my family, we just "don't talk about stuff like that" real openly. I remember being scared to tell her. Well, that night, I crawled into bed, and the mattress was beyond repair. There was no way I couldn't not tell her I had popped it. So, I called her downstairs and said: "I've got some good news and some bad news." She said: "What's the bad news?" I showed her the bed and she was about ready to hit me when I said, "WAIT! There's uh, good news too." Pissed she said: "What's the good news?" (Like the good news was in no way capable of saving my ass from the beating I was about to get) "I uh, started my period." Her hand came down and she hugged me. Whew. I read an article about how they're now marketing prozac as a means to treat PMS. This kills me. I mean, I'm a believer that PMS is a real thing. I go through it monthly. I get cramps so bad that I puke and sometimes faint. I know I get bloated, and I know (although it's sporadic) that it gets me more emotional than I would be on a normal basis. But I think (personally) by using prozac as a means to treat PMS it adds to an already popular belief of female craziness. I dunno. Just seems a bit silly to me.

he he, is that why you call yourself crimson? :P i actually grew up around the same time. my crazy bitch mother wouldn't let me use tampons either. she wouldn't even get me the napkins with the sticky tape on the back. bitch. i had the same white pants indian style experience in junior high too. i also had the stupid comment about those evil tampons. as if we were going to become sexualized to early from sticking rolled cotton in our vaginas. i don't remember any other problems coming from any other people except my mom. i did go through the embarrassment of buying them the first couple of times though. i got mine when i was 17. you never saw this tomboy carrying around pads wishing she would get her period. to this day, when a big cramp comes on, you can still hear me moan"god! i wish i had a penis!" but know i'm older i don't care. if i pull out a tampon instead of a pen, i laugh. if someone (my boss usually) is giving me a problem about my whining, complaining or attitude, i just yell "i'm having my period and i need to go shove a big fat tampon up my twat". that usually shuts anyone up and stops people within a 20 ft. radius from messing with me. works every time.

I hate my period. It's the most evil thing on earth. It wastes my time, it's messy, it's embarassing to deal with, and I while I don't get grumpy, sometimes I get a little neurotic. I keep thinking about switching to Depo to avoid my period, because that would really make my life a lot easier. I can't have kids anyway, what's the point in ovulating. Fargh. Stupid period. Stupid girl stuff. I always wish I had a penis for five days out of the month. I mean, think, honestly, about how much time you spend bleeding continously every year, how many resources you waste with tampons/kotex over your life time...ugh. I use rags, actually. This place in Oregon makes them . They're called Glad Rags, and I really wouldn't use anything else. The thought of the waste involved in using kotex/tampons my entire life frightens me.

Kalli, let me eat cake.

Anyway, after actually reading the posts here, I feel embarrassed for being so obtuse. Truthfully, having a dick isn't all that it's cracked up to be. If I had the opportunity between the dick and the ability to give birth, I'd choose the latter, even if it meant that I'd bleed profusely from the crotch every 28 days. Say, there aren't _any_ other men on this thread. In fact, the only man here uses a woman's name for a nickname. Whassup with that?

i had no idea that prozac was used for pms. i meant, but didn't say, that i was diagnosed for the first time with depression. pms isn't a big problem for me. if only your period wasn't something that you could blame all of your bad days on. argh!! i hate it when people are like, oh she's just on the rag. goddamnit. i have a right to be sad or pissed off, i'm not doing it because i'm bleeding i'm doing it because they are being fucking idiots.

It's a competitive disadvantage. If candidate A is a guy, and candidate B is a gal, equally qualified, but you know that one day out of every month she is going to be "a little down" and another couple of days out of every month, she's going to be feeling rotten, trying to smile through it with lots of Advil and gritted teeth, and the week prior to this she may be prone to bursting into tears unexpectedly, and it's rather unpredictable whether any of these days will coincide with The Big Presentation, well, all things being equal... The Curse, indeed

In answer to Antigone's query, yeah, there are at least a few other men who've read this thread. A couple of buddies and I have looked at it. I'm the only one who's going to attempt a response, though. And it's not much of a response. Think about it. (1) I'm a guy (2) I'm gay. What I know about periods could fit inside a thimble. When I was growing up, I was mostly secluded from females (except of course for my mother, The Ice Queen). There weren't really many girls in my neighborhood and I was sent to boys' schools. My mother's general position was that most girls (aside from her, of course) were dirty, evil and uncultured creatures. I don't remember her ever once entertaining the notion that I might ever do something silly like date or marry. Dealing with women was something I didn't really have much experience with until college. The folks didn't talk to me about sex. My mother was damn near phobic of the topic. I did find out about periods, though, from a book. I asked my mother about it and she slapped me and screamed at me. She scratched my cheek (she often punished me by scratching my skin open) and told me to never mention such obscene filth again in her presence. I mostly went to boarding schools, the farther away the better. My folks weren't too keen on the parenting trip. We weren't even Catholic, but the Catholics had some good schools and more importantly, schools that were several states away. When I hit puberty, my father said I'd learn all about sex in school. In an all-male Catholic school run by celibate monks. Right. Some guys and I started talking about periods at school. One guy said his mom told him it was the "Curse of Eve". Women had periods because Eve tempted Adam into sin. Women had to suffer painful periods as a sign of their inferiority and shame, due to their role in the Fall of Man. The other guys thought this was a good explanation. I thought it was bullshit. But even if it were true, what a drag that all women would be expected to suffer for the sins of one (who lived a long damn time ago). I also thought it was weird that a guy's MOTHER was telling him this. A woman, telling her son that women are inferior. Self-hatred or what? Crimson's more up on these things than I am. Ask her about the time she changed a hippie chick's tampon for her. The girl was too stoned to do it herself and she was freaking out, bleeding and screaming. I've only seen a used Kotex once. I had to pick something up from a girl's apartment when I was in college. I sat in her living room while she went to the bathroom. As I waited for her, her poodle came marching into the living room with a bloody pad clenched proudly between his teeth. I laughed my ass off. By the time she got out of the bathroom, the dog was happily munching on the Kotex. The girl was so embarrassed that I actually felt sorry for her. She cried and kicked the crap out of the dog (hard, in the ribs). She was an emotional wreck. I was disturbed that she found it such a big deal. I also was surprised at how much blood was on that pad, and that the blood was much more rusty brown in appearance than red.

i got my period when i was like seventeen, at school. i had no idea what was going on, even though i knew about periods. i thought i had shit my pants, somehow, because i had been having cramps for like two days and i just thought i had to go to the bathroom. although i had three older sisters who told me about periods, they didn't actually go into detail about what it looked like or how it felt, just that it hurt and you bleed out of your vagina. they never told me that it feels like you have to take a shit for days, and that the blood is brown and chunky, as opposed to red. anyhow. it was somewhat of a non-issue in my family, because my mother had already gone through it with three other girls. i do remember that she gave me pads, and that my sisters were the ones that hipped me to the tampon scene. i remember trying to put that thing in for like an hour and looking at the stupid diagram on the brochure which tells you to stand up with one foot on the toilet, which is quite possibly the most ridiculously difficult way to insert a tampon. i also remember the profound relief i experienced after i knew there was an option besides sanitary napkins, which feel like a giant wet hoagie between your legs. i remember the last time we talked about this stuff, patrick got all freaked out. heh.

I got my period when I was 11 and 8 months. I am from the generation that learned all about periods from the Judy Blume book, _Are You There God? It's me, Margaret_ so I knew about periods. All I remember is waking up one morning with a terrible back ache. I couldn't lie down, I couldn't stand, I couldn't do anything. I went to lie in my parents' bed (it was more firm than mine, and it felt a bit better). Finally I couldn't lie any longer, so I went to get dressed and discovered that I had my period. I told my mother and she told everyone! It's embarassing. Recently my niece got her period and my mother told everyone again. There's no use telling her that it's not necessarily something everyone wants advertised. My mother is very old fashioned, so she was really against using tampons, but I finally just bought them for myself when I was around 16. My mother got really angry when she found out I was using them, but seemed to calm down when my sisters told her she was crazy and she saw them and they weren't huge (I use OB because they have no applicator, as the whole waste thing troubles me too). I get my period really frequently - my cycle is about 21 days long, and the bleeding lasts 7 of those days. It's awful. I've started using these things called "Instead" which are like plastic cups you put inside that catch the blood. I resuse them even though you're not supposed to (I wash them with anti-bacterial soap and I sterilize them with rubbing alcohol) in order to keep the waste to a minimum. I don't think these things are very popular, as they are hard to find in stores. I used to be a really heavy bleeder, though now I'm not (I'm not sure what has changed). I remember one time I was wearing a tampon AND a super maxi pad, and before 3 hours were up, I had bled through all my clothes and onto one of the kitchen chairs. Just awful. And I agree with Isolde that there's no point ovulating if you're not going to have kids. I also find it annoying that breast cancer is linked to how many menstrual cycles you have - women who get their periods later in life are less likely to develop breast cancer, and those whose periods are interrupted through pregnancy and breast feeding are also less likely. This puts me in the highest risk category for all the things I can't control. It sucks. One thing I find interesting is I'm more horny just before I get my period. It's one of the things, along with bloating and break outs that lets me know it's coming.

I've seen those cup things at the drug store but I've never actually used them. Are they comfortable? I can't use pads. They drive me insane. I like wearing body-hugging clothes, and if I have to wear a pad, I always feel like someones going to see the outline or something. So I use tampons. Except, with some of the stuff I've been learning lately, I'm not sure these are too good for me either. I heard (and it may very well be paranoid rumor) that the bleached tampons, (which most of the drugstore variety are), can contribute to cancer because the body is absorbing the toxins. Thing is, I'd love to use the non-bleach ones, except health food stores are the only places I seem to be able to find them, and they're sooooooo fucking expensive. Now that I'm back in college, I'm having to be thrifty. I also heard (also a possible rumor but one that makes sense) that using anti-perspirant can contribute to breast cancer. The theory behind this is that the reason we sweat is to release toxins. By using anti-perspirant, we're keeping the toxins in, and with that beind so close to our breasts...well...it does make sense. Wether or not it's true, I have no idea. I learned about periods though Judy Blume too. I read that book sooooo many times. You know, the real purpose of this is just to gross Patrick out right? The term paper was just a cruel hoax. ;) No, seriously, this is awesome. My mom even left me a little quote....I have to share...look: "Really, though; think about it; just the word, "MENSTRUATION"; yuk! It just has an icky ring to it; perhaps if they called it "femdelightiation" or something..." HAH!

The thing about bleached tampons being bad for you is true. The thing about anti-perspirants causing cancer is an unsupported theory. Your mom is right.

I've looked at this thread for two days...and not posted. The reason I'm posting on the boards, in the first place, is to actually "practice" being more self-revealing. In other words, to try to be more open and comfortable with others seeing inside my skin. But when I saw this thread...I thought: "Nope, I can't go there. Not that, anything but that." And that in itself is an indication of the phobia associated with the whole bloody (!) menstruation thing. But deep breath...here goes...I'm just sorry it's not more earth shattering after that self-tortured introduction. I got my period when I was 14. Probably later than most because intensive ballet training offset puberty. The only hassle was that I was at boarding school and was ashamed to admit that I was so late. Like it indicated some kind of retarded development. Nuns, with years of practice at red-faced girls mumbling "I've got my period", showed me the way to the Kotex cupboard. They were a fairly feminist group of women, so they were incredibly practical and no-nonsense about explaining the facts. It's just occurred to me that I never told my mother, and can't recall ever discussing anything relating to menstruation with her. I'm going to mention it to her next time we meet. Anyways, I just remember being secretly delighted that I was finally in "the club". Now, I'd be happy to be kicked out of it. My period stopped when I was 16 because by that stage, my body fat (ballet again) had got down to a stage where I was no longer producing the relevant hormones. I thought I was pregnant at first and spent a tortured three months before I approached my ballet teacher and she set me straight. Unfortunately, giving up ballet left me back with the rest of womankind. But you have got to wonder why scientists/the medical fraternity/drug companies have not come up with a real alternative to menstruation. It afflicts 50% of the World's population on a regular basis with symptoms ranging from mild, to crippling. And yet, where are the magic pills or potions? With women entering the marketplace, you'd think there would be an economic imperative now, huh? Are they afraid to play with nature, or is it kinda reassuring to know women have an inner "weakness". I mean if you could temporarily abate menstruation, you'd have to let women on the front lines. Sorry this isn't more quote-worthy Kalli. But Germaine Greer came out with some interesting stuff recently on menopause, which I can track down for you. (Can't tell you how glad I am I'm posting this)

Yeah. I remember being really excited at the thought of having my period, until it happened. My stepfather used to beat me, and I remember going out into the woods and being all terrified because I had my period, which was supposed to be some big womanly thing, but I didn't want to go back into the house, so I sat on a tree for a while. Ever since then, I haven't been too thrilled with the idea. It's just pointless. Argh. There is a way to pervent actual ovulation--Depo-Provera, while being birth control, also usually stops you from having your period after the first shot. But some of us aren't sure we like the idea of mass amounts of female hormones being introduced to our bodies at once. Silyl hippies.

oops. i messed up earlier. i was actually 15 when i got my period. still late though i guess. Judy Blume-yes, i forgot that one. she taught me more than my mom ever did. Pilate-self hatred? too right. my mom was the same way. women were evil, nasty temptresses. i don't mind my period so much since i found the glory of tampons. i only mind cramps. and forgetting to not wear white underwear during that time. talk about waste. i love carboard tampons. bleached or not. i won't go without anti-persperant. i drink, i smoke. i smoked when i used to be on the pill. i'm gonna die surely one day from cancer. i've accepted that fate. i will never own a penis. i probably will never have kids. oh well. by the way Kalli, no one has talked about how good it feels to get screwed when you are having your period. it makes it feel so much better. somehow it helps the cramps. i know it can be a bit messy, but i love a guy who doesn't have a problem with this. shit, i just remembered mother never told me about menopause. someone is going to have to start that thread. this is something i can't learn from the street like i did about sex. it still freaks me out to this day to hear that mothers wouldn't let there daughters use tampons. that just bugs the shit out of me. like they want us to go through the same torture they did. ggrrrrrr. some people shouldn't be allowed to have kids.

i tried using tampons once in eighth grade. it was very uncomfortable, so i stopped using them. it wasn't until I was a senior in high school that my best friend and i talked about our periods and she told me that i just hadn't put it in correctly. i read the instructions, the leg up on the toilet thing (although i've since mastered the sitting down), and was amazed by the world of tampons. i couldn't wear pads now. my period is really funky. it lasts only about two to three days. when i was on the pill, i had one day periods. it's nice, but my friend who has all kinds of period problems (she's bled for over two months before)claims that i have a big problem too. as i'm a paranoid freak this isn't a good thing.

So I'm finishing this paper tonight. Stocked up on lots of chocolate and Mt. Dew. Hopefully if it all goes well, I'll have it done by tomorrow. However, the boy has been out of town all weekend and is coming back tonight and I'm certain my hormones are in need of a "time out" session. (I can't be as crude about my sex life as I normally am cuz I know my brother has been getting on sorabji lately. Just ain't proper'.) Although I'm not certain he's reading this because I think the concept of his big sister bleeding out of her coochie 5 days a month probably makes him vomitous. Which leads me to my point. I've learned, through these posts, and through other conversations with other men and women...that no one, and I mean no one, has said they love their periods. No one celebrates it. The most positive reaction was crimson saying, "screw it, being on the rag is part of life." So, it's accepted. It's seen as a burden. That's why I'm doing this paper. Because this is soooo common. There's so few women who say, "Fuck yes, I love to bleed." And you know, technically, we should say that. Think about it. It's what gives us the ability to give birth. To create life....Women have the power to carry life INSIDE of them. I mean really...holy shit. Another quote from my mamma which I think applies to what I'm trying to say: "I remember when I got mine, my mother asking me, "Did you get 'your friend'?" Don't think I ever heard Mom call it "A PERIOD". Then I also recall it being called "the curse" by others from her generation. So, which is it, friend or foe?" It kinda saddens me to see so many women, (myself included), who view their periods as a curse rather than a gift. But you know, I don't know what the solution is. I'm with Isolde on the chemical thing. I don't plan to have kids til I'm in my late 20's early 30's...so I could avoid the discomfort and pain and annoyance my period causes me by injecting that stuff...but I'm not sure I actually want to avoid that. I have a feeling that if I wasn't getting my period every month, I'd feel insane. I'd feel like an important part of me, and of me identifying myself as a woman would be lost. I think this is why menopause can be so emotionally difficult for women in Western society...because that's pretty much what it is.....losing something that's been with you your whole life. I took the morning after pill a couple of months ago after my partner insisted that the Trojan thins were reliable. (I tend to prefer the new ones---the uhh....they aren't latex...ummm polyeurethene...they feel better and I've never had a problem with them.) Well, it broke. And I....we....freaked. The morning after pill is pretty much like taking eight birth control pills all at once. Actually, that's exactly what it is. And my period got all fucked up, and I missed a month, and then would bleed for a day...and then not...and then for two days and then not....and I swear, although I can't prove it, that it affected my emotional state.... But hell. That's just my opinion.

I never wanted my period, I don't remember getting it, and I wish I never had. I'm thrilled now that I'm free of it, and I don't feel sad about thinking this way at all. Why is it sad? Sure it's nice to be able to give birth and wotnot, but that doesn't make bleeding any less uncomfterble. can't you appreaciate the one and dislike the other? and you don't stop bleeding after one injection of depo-provera. nuh-uh, no way. most women spot almost constantly for about six months. I spotted for nine months. after you've been taking it a year, most women stop bleeding. It hasn't been a year yet (not till september) but I haven't bleed at all since my last injection. Fantastic. <<Also, I have Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome>> I found this interesting. because when I had a period it was always Off. Sometimes I got it monthly, but usually there was a gap of two or three months between bloodshots.

Not that I would have anything but second-hand info, but I have it on good authority that THC is great for menstrual cramps, along with nice long hot baths. What's wrong with bleached tampons is the dioxin used to bleach them. That's the toxin everyone was thinking of. As far as deoderants go, it's not so much the pblocking of persperation that you need to worry about, since you perspire all other your body, not just your armpits. Apparently, It may be the aluminum in some anti-perspirants tht may cause problems later on. I genreally stay away from A-P's anyway, because there's nothing wrong with sweat. I use deoderant as a nod to social convention and people who automatically are turned off by body odor, even if it's a nice and cleanbody it's coming from.

I was happy when I got my first wet dream....aaahhh, wait a minute. Wrong thread. Carry on.

Yes, sex during your period clears things out so the blood flows more easily. I don't understand the fear of sweat/bodily odours. If it's the stinky, sour smell of someone who doesn't wash enough, then it's gross--but perspiration is rarely that bad. People just fear it for some reason. Actually, though no one else has mentioned this, I kind of like the scent of menstrual blood. But then again, I also like the scent of skunk, which some people object to. At any rate, American culture seems to cultivate fear of the body. It's distressing.

I don't know if it's just me but I can smell when a woman nearby is menstruating. I'm not sure if it's the blood i smell or some kind of phermone. you women are so funny. every girl i've ever been involved with has told me upon her first period of our relationship, "I'm not one of those who get really moody or pms or anything." that lasts about three months and then they pms like it's their fucking job. i never complain. just glad it's not me. a buddy of mine's girlfriend used to say that anything that bleeds for four days should be dead.

When I was engaged, one night my (now ex) fiance and I were curled up on the couch. I was fully clothed. I always avoid sexual contact when I'm on my period. (I could get into a tangent about it but I won't cuz it's almost 1 am and I'm no where near finished with this fucking-god-awful-im-gonna-drop-out-of-college-again-really-soon paper.) Anyway, he said I smelled earthy. He said he could smell me...I think it's a phermone. It turned him on....although yea, there is a unique smell of blood. I always know before I look....

Did you ever think if men got periods or could get pregnant they'd be able to get abortions at drive thru windows?

Re menopause, haven't had it yet but if you get a certain age, don't be surprised if just about any physical problem you get, from heart palpitations to ingrown toenail, is put down by your Dr. as "your body is getting ready to menopause." and if you have bad cramps or fibroids or something, "why not just go ahead and have it taken out? Get it over with, you'll feel better..." Re menstruation, if it didn't hurt so damn bad, one could go with the life-giving philosophy and stuff. Hurting sucks. 'Taint right. Guys, think of having the worst case of constipation you ever had, and diahrrea at the same time, plus a real bad hangover. And realizing you have that to look forward to just about EVERY MONTH, no matter what you do...

This might be some handy info for your paper: The Native Americans had a menstrual hut, where the women went while on their periods.[ in my mind this is a wonderful place,where no one annoys you,you can be as crazy and irrational as you want,and no one minds or gets offended.There is and endless supply of Hostess chocolate cupcakes and Hershey bars,there for the taking,plenty of tear-jerker movies,and a bidet.] Next fact: When females are housed in the same building,[like in a dorm,] they frequently cycle all at the same time.This holds true for humans as well as animals. Fact#3: Tampons,kotex and panties are the most frequent roadside rubble that the street cleaners/sweepers have to clean up.[I have a hard time understanding this.Not once can I remember driving down the road,and getting a wild hair to just pop my tampon out and sling it out the window.Seems like there should be some kind of law about this.Thats just NASTY.

CZ-Fact #1-well known, and it follows suit (in some way) in most cultures that live off the land. Fact #2-well known, once again-if you have girlfriends, enough of them, eventually you all cycle together, like a bike race. sometimes coinciding with the tides of the moon. Fact#3-Road kill. Very American trait. Flinging things out the window knowing somehow , somewhere, someone eventually is going to clean it up. seeing how as i never thought about popping my tampon out and slinging it out the window, just that visual that you mentioned, makes me want to do it on some lone highway in the desert, and pray to god there is a law against it, just so i know i'm breaking it.

I hope I'm not driving behind you in a convertable.Maybe you could wait untill an 18 wheeler is next to you,THEY always seem to want to look down/into a females car.That would give them something to remember!

"getting a wild hair" -- never heard that expression. D'ou vient-il?

Dougie, Where do you live? That's as old as the hills.

I live in New York. Must've been asleep the day it passed through here.

maybe it's too late to post, but i was away for the weekend despite often debilitating cramps, fibroid cysts, and severe mood swings..... I LOVE MY PERIOD!!!!! i have a tiny garden shed in my yard where i often retire while bleeding....i take extra good care of my body and my mind during my period---lots of nice tea and leafy greens and good music.....lots of naps and hot baths and pot help too. also a vibrator and cookies. but until i started taking good care of myself and paying attention to what my body needed, i hated having my period. my mom was very cool about explaining "the facts" to me when i was about 6. apparently, her mother has yet to even let out a peep about periods, pregnancy, etc. there are reasons women used to all chill out together in longhouses and huts..... it's nice! it feels good to honor your body instead of ignoring it or treating it like an inconvenience. sem, remember the time you had to pick me up from work at the Performing Arts library and practically carry me home?

Kalli, you asked about those INSTEAD things... they are not uncomfortable. It all depends how comfortable you are with trying to find it in your vagina when it's kind of lost it's way up there. Some women wouldn't like that. I find they are very clean though... I only change it once a day (when I go to bed, I change into a pad, but I think I'm going to look into something more environmentally sound). The only time I notice it is when I'm using the toilet and I put some pressure on my bladder - then it seems to move and sometimes the blood spills, but it's not uncomfortable and it's still not very messy. I hope this helps.

willy nilly try using the keeper. it's awesome...like instead, but fits better and lasts for years and years. they cost about 35 dollars. they have a guarantee if it doesn't feel comfortable. it has a smaller diameter than instead and is a little longer. love, mavis

"Re menstruation, if it didn't hurt so damn bad, one could go with the life-giving philosophy and stuff. Hurting sucks. 'Taint right. Guys, think of having the worst case of constipation you ever had, and diahrrea at the same time, plus a real bad hangover. And realizing you have that to look forward to just about EVERY MONTH, no matter what you do..." Fuck! it feels like that? I've had that experience. (Well, not constipated, really, but bad cramps and hot liquid shootin' out me bum) ladies, you have my deepest respect.

sem you rock--remember when you carried me away from work because those cramps were so bad? once again i implore you for your hand in marriage ladies, take it from me. sem is the coolest guy ever.

whomever has sem's affections is or will be one very lucky person.

back to the original post about periods/menstruation/PMS....... i tend to think anyone who all of sudden gets a bloated, painful gut and is having to look after their privates for a week straight has a right to be an ass. I have no support or documentation here other than my opinion, but i largely believe "PMS" to be somethign created by a male dominated society to invalidate a woman. "Oh she's just bitching, she has PMS" I know that hormone levels can be in flux.......... (leaving the technical hoohaw for Spider) ......but hey I know if i had a period i'd be an ass too. Who IS pleasant when they have weird things going on with their bodies? You don't hear an official syndrom named for when one gets a stomach virus for 3 days now do you?

i *LOVE* the enlightened men of sorabji. thank you patrick, sem, others

Just a thought for the guys - What if we bled out or dicks for three days? What sort of weird rituals would have evolved? And would we have more vacation time?

Well, it all depends who has the power... if men bled and had to rest for a month or two surrounding the birth of a new human, and women didn't, it would probably be the same thing. It's always the stronger who take admantage of the weaker. I just rescued a stray kitten who was being constantly picked on by it's peer group because it had the misfortune of being smaller. It's eye is pretty bad. I've often heard "women have never started a war." While this is probably true, it is also likely true because women have never had the power to start a war. If women had been generals and kings and so forth, there might have been more female war mongers. I don't think that men and women are all that different. When a person feels threatened, he or she will react. Just natural. But I like Patrick's post about PMS just being a way for men to dismiss women. I think you may have something there. Well well... enough from me.

i am irritable as fuck right now and bloated and ravenous. i don't bleed anymore - again - but would like to, just for peace of mind, release.

Come on Patrick, men inventing PMS to "invalidate a woman"??? Give me a break.

Women starting wars: what about the Amazons in ancient Greece, and the warrior women in (damn, where? Mongolia?) and the British Isles, and the so-called pirate queens Grace O'Malley and Cheng I Sao? They were women who engaged in organized violence.

Well, I never said it was a fact, I just said I'd heard people saying that, usually as a way to promote female superiority. I agree that it's not true... about the wars, I mean. I'm going to keep my views on female superiority to myself.

dougiefresh, when was the last time you heard a male say "she's just PMS-ing"........or something to that effect? Was it used to dismiss a behavior? Was it used to write off something someone did wrong and the female got pissed about it? Don't take it so literal as to say a bunch white old men sat around in the ChryslerDahlmer bldg in 1930 coming up with this notion so they could shut their wives up from nagging them.

Quite recently, as a matter of fact, Patrick. I let it loose on another thread.

biologically speaking, i don't think anyone can invalidate PMS. we are made up of chemicals which regulate our biological functions. when the chemicals fluxuate, so do our biological functions. basically the syndrome is that changes in hormone levels are changing the way our bodies function and feel. the behavioral correlates are based on reactions to what is happening in the body. maybe there are women out there who can recognize and control their behavioral changes each month. i try to do the best i can when i can remember or recognize that i'm having cyclical hormone changes. for someone who has a chronically irregular menstrual cycle, this is often times difficult. all day yesterday i was craving sweets and cursing my nutrition and fitness regmine. today this feeling is worse. it's only 10 a.m. here and so far i've eaten the following: ~ 1 egg scrambled with 2 egg whites ~ 1/2 cup cottage cheese ~ 1.5 cups leftover bean salad ~ 1 red plum ~ 2 cups coffee with 2% milk ~ 1 cup tazo chai hot tea ~ 1 high protein meal replacement bar (280 calories!) ~ 3 oz leftover steak this is already about double what i typically eat by 2 in the afternoon. and i can't seem to feel full or satiated. i am desperately trying to avoid sugar/sweets, because i know that eating them may satisfy the craving but that it makes me feel unwell by causing unnecessarily big swings in insulin release - it's bad enough that my reproductive hormones are acting up, i don't need to make it worse. yesterday i was distracted all day, irritable, testy, and feeling like i had a ton of fidgety, nervous energy. this morning i snapped at my girlie friend who is visiting from LA and staying with me. she said, "what's that you've tied around your waist?" and i said, "it's a scarf. and what kind of question is that? if you don't like it or you think it looks dumb, then you should just say what you mean." then i went on a tirade about how, given the amount of weight i've lost and now that i have an executive job, i'm doing the best i can to dress up appropriately for work with whatever clothes i have available and if she doesn't like it then she can go to hell, etc. typically i wouldn't even blink at her for asking me a question like that. i'd just say, "it's a scarf." maybe i'd follow that up with, "what do you think? looks silly?" and then laugh. today my uterus - and entire lower abdomen - feels like it's holding a 15 lb rock which is about to bust out of my abdominal cavity or drop out my eurethra. it makes sitting up straight at my desk chair quite uncomfortable. tonight when i go to bed i wouldn't be surprised if i felt sad, lonely, unloved, and didn't see a reason to go on living and cried myself to sleep for no reason. that happens about 50% of the time during this cycle. i can see how these behaviors can seem mysterious and exasperating and out-of-character to anyone having to deal with someone in this state. i'd feel sorry for any man, woman, or child living with me or dealing with me - and i wouldn't blame them for dismissing my behaviors and feelings as "PMS". of course, being overtly dismissive is rarely a good way to handle someone who is suffering from PMS - in fact, a little extra compassion and understanding will go a hell of a lot farther - but i'd personally be grateful for anyone who recognizes the fact that i'm not this psychotic and bitchy and that i'm just going through the cycle. i've spent the last year paying incredibly close attention to my body and how it functions cyclically and how it responds to things i do to it and feed it. this doesn't make me an expert on hormones or PMS or being bitchy (though some might disagree on that last part), but this is my experience and my observations, for whatever that's worth. i gotta get back to work.

non sequitor: i'm only eating organic dairy products these days. i buy organically grown meats and poultry when i can find them.

dear sarah- i bet your scarf looks awesome take extra good care of yourself today!

I'm sure Patrick can defend his own point, but I don't think he meant to say that women don't have PMS, but rather that, in some situations, men use PMS as an excuse to dismiss a woman's reactions. Maybe an example would help: A man comes home from the grocery store and he's forgotten to pick up half the stuff on the grocery list, some of which was required for a certain something that his wife needed to prepare. Not only does he forget to get the stuff, but he also passes by the Home Depot afterward and comes home too late to go back. The wife gets upset, and instead of apologising for being absent-minded or trying to figure out some way to help, the man in this story just thinks to himself, "must be her time of the month." Some women do go through very drastic mood changes around their cycle; it's not a built in excuse to ignore what women say, though some people feel that it is. I think that's what Patrick meant, and I think he might be right.

yes willy, you said it well, i think sarah knows that, but alas she thinks im a dope anyway, so thanks for clarifying that.

My temperament doesn't change when I get my period. I used to get cramps, but after a while, they stopped. It hasn't ever occured to me to excuse my behaviour with pms, since I don't get it, but I suppose there are people who do. Bleh. What was I trying to say again? Oh, right. Unfortunately, this forces me to take responsibility for all of my bitchy actions, since I can't use the rag as an excuse. Damn. Maybe this PMS thing is a good idea.

to isolde & sarah, why not use "the rag" or PMS to fend for your bitchy actions? for fucks sake, men have been using their penis' for getting them in all steams of trouble for CENTURIES...hey, it's our only female right, besides pregnancy.... just kidding boys....

I don't beleive it is just an excuse for some women. I could have sworn some of thier heads would start doing 360's and start spewing pea soup. However, I think it affects each woman differently, and some use it as an excuse, just as some men use "thinking with the wrong head" as an excuse for doing something incredibly stupid that defies all other arguments.