Viaticals


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THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016).

By R.C. on Saturday, November 21, 1998 - 01:56 pm:

    Saw a few moments of this piece on 20/20 or whichever one of those cookie-cutter pseudo- news magazines that was on last nite as I channel surfed thru the commercials during 'Homicide'. (Love that show! But Andre Braugher is sorely missed).

    A very indignant woman & her husband had apparently made an half-million dollar windfall on a real estate deal a few years back. And they decided to invest it all in Viaticals. This is the ghoulish investment vehicle where a company buys up the life insurance policies of terminally-ill
    people (usually AIDS patients)/then resells them
    to folks who are looking to profit form the unfortunate illnesses of strangers.

    I'm not completely sure how it works/but from what I caught of the program/it goes something like this: Say I've got AIDS/but I'm still in reasonably good health & I want to spend six months traveling the world before I start getting sick & eventually kick the bucket. I can't afford to finance such a trip myself. So I sell my insurance policy to an 'investor' for 75% of the face value. The company that handles this transaction apparently charges a fee for brokering the deal/so they've already got their profit. (Although you can arrange for Viaticals thru strictly private channels w/no middle-man.) I get 75 grand to travel with/& the investor gets the rights to the full 100 grand policy when I die.

    But apparently/with the advent of the Triple- Drug cocktail/AIDS patients are living a lot longer than anticipated. And for some reason that I didn't catch from the broadcast/the longer the patient lives/the less the investor makes??
    (Why? They only paid 75K to earn 100K when I kick. That's what -- like a 30% return on their investment? [Math was never my strong suit) Sounds pretty lucrative to me.)

    But apparently/the longer you wait for the person to die so you can collect/the less $$ you make off the deal. (Maybe it's indexed for inflation/or something.) And this sanctimonious woman sat there whining abt how she & her husband didn't "resent" the fact that these AIDS patients whose policies they'd bought were still alive. She didn't "blame them" for not having the courtesy to roll over & die on schedule. And she didn't consider herself or her husband to be greedy people. But she "resented" the fact that the company who handled these Viaticals & made them sign all these releases & cover-their- corporate-asses type documents never told them that back in Jan.1996/when the deals went down/that the company was aware that protease inhibitors were in clinical trials & showing very positive results in terms of extending the lives of AIDS patients. (The drugs had not yet received FDA approval at that time.) If they had known that/they might not have invested all of their $$ in something as high-risk as Viaticals.

    I think Viaticals are weeds that shd be illegal & obliterated from cultural memory. If yr brother or yr parents or yr best friend want to buy out yr life insurance policy in order to provide you w/the $$ to pay for medications or realize a life-long dream before you die/that's one thing. These people know you & are aware of the specifics of yr prognosis. But for total strangers to purchase
    yr life insruance at a discount simply for the sake or making a profit off yr death smacks of greed & exploitation & I think it stinks.

    What do you think?



By Dave on Sunday, November 22, 1998 - 02:55 am:

    I hate insurance companies so if there is any way somebody can scam them, I'm for it. As for the investors and the terminally ill, tough shit. I think the sick folk are getting the best deal. And, when the subject is making money, what doesn't smack of greed and exploitation?


By Sheila on Sunday, November 22, 1998 - 10:39 am:

    I miss Andre Braugher.

    I'm sore about it.

    Is that what you mean by sorely missed?

    Did you see the PBS documentary on the making of an Homicide episode?

    Viaticals schmiaticals. So now I guess I can't go get AIDS just for the $$$$$$?

    Every year I wager good money on people who have to die for me to win and get paid. It's just a higher stakes Ghoul Pool, isnt' it?


By Melignant 2 more on Sunday, November 22, 1998 - 12:56 pm:

    I used to watch Homicide religiously, and then I just stopped. Now I find out one of their episodes won a fucking Peabody Award. Whatever the hell that is.

    Nothing you can do about viaticals. That scam is as old as Insurance itself; how many people do you suppose have cashed in on a life insurance policy after finding out they had a brain tumour or whatever. As long as you don't leave dependents in the lurch, what the hell.

    I just couldn't bring myself do profit in such a blatant way from another person's death. No one would date me anymore. That's bullshit, sleazebuckets galore would be sending me flowers and candy.

    Ever heard that song that goes "I don't need to walk around in circles, walk around in circles"? It started playing around the time I was typing "brain tumour". It makes any moment fun.


By Sheila on Sunday, November 22, 1998 - 01:40 pm:

    It was the episode they made the documentary about that won the Peabody Award. It was the one where the guy dies in the subway, caught beneath the train, and Pembleton talks to him until they move the train, causing him to die at once, while the other guys are out looking for his girlfriend who is jogging along the waterfront, so that she can say goodbye in time.

    Before he dies, he finds out that he was pushed under the train by a person who just likes to do that, for no other reason, selected randomly.

    This is how low I can go: I'm capsulizing TV plots on the internet. I should get a job off the mountain, or dig bigger holes.

    But I can't because Zombie Jamboree goes through my head during the excavating.


By Mel nutrition on Sunday, November 22, 1998 - 02:23 pm:

    Why Miss Sheila, I've seen many other fine people encrapulating TV shows on these pages. Tis no shame. Unless it's "Friends" of course.

    Yesterday my cousin called me up at home to tell about the cooking show she was watching. It was on cable, which I don't have, and she talked me through the whole thing. The guy on TV was making pesto sauce, which I myself make.

    "OK, now he's putting the basil and the pine nuts in...you don't use pine nuts ever do you?...he's putting it in a food processor, you need to get one of those...he turned it on without putting the olive oil like you do...That was quick! Brrrrr! You need a food processor."

    I will not get one from her. Her Christmas presents are always useless wooden or wrought-iron things she finds in flea markets.

    "He's made fresh pasta...its not round like spaghetti, it's sort of like really thin lasagna noodles...Your right, maybe it's lingini...You need to get a pasta maker."

    I am profoundly hung over.

    I wish I were in a deep hole on a mountain.


By R.C. on Sunday, November 22, 1998 - 03:33 pm:

    Mel -- tell yr cheapskate cousin no more flea market trash -- this year/you want a WIlliams Sonoma gift certificate. For at least 150 bucks.

    But however do you manage to make pesto sans food processor? I tried to make it in a blender once -- what a mess! The pignoli nuts never got finely ground enuf. The whole texture was wrong.

    (I know -- Italians were making pesto for centuries before there were food processors. But how? I've never seen anyone do it w/out using gadgetry.)


By Mel on Sunday, November 22, 1998 - 04:29 pm:

    I don't want to give my cousin a bad name. She's not cheap, she just doesn't have any money. She just divorced her asshole graphic-artist husband and is living in a run-down house (not unlike mine). Some of the things she gives me are cool - an old wrought-iron standing ashtray (noir and nifty, though I never smoke), and one of secret compartment books made from Aesop's Fables.

    I use an old blender for my pesto. It's a bit of work, but it's not bad. It involves lots of short bursts and then repacking. Where there's a will there's a way. I never put any kind of nuts in my pesto, just basil, parmesan, garlic and olive oil. I also like it on the thick side, more like paste than sauce.

    I've seen an old Italian lady make pesto with a mortar and pestle. The mortar part being sort of a big stone basin. Slow and steady grinding away, and you swear that the finished product is the best in the world.


By Agatha on Sunday, November 22, 1998 - 04:40 pm:

    i was just going to say that, about the mortal and pestle. i was also going to stick my big toe out and tell all who care that I LIKE FRIENDS. i like it.


By Pignolle on Sunday, November 22, 1998 - 05:09 pm:

    You go right ahead and like it!

    "Slow and steady grinding away, and you swear that the finished product is the best in the world."

    what a nice sentence.


By Mel on Sunday, November 22, 1998 - 05:54 pm:

    I'm rather fond of "mortal and pestle".

    And paisanos.


By Pete on Sunday, November 22, 1998 - 10:18 pm:

    Not to spoil the interesting turn this topic has taken, but allow me a brief detour back to the orignal subject and then you can get back to your discussions of pesto and the mortar and pestles.....

    viaticals are also sold by people in the later stages of AIDS who have been cut off by their insurance companies because they have met their "limit" for expenditures. Not necessarily just people who are looking for a last fling....sometimes they need the $$$ now to pay for treatment that the insurance bastards won't authorize.....

    we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming


By Dave on Monday, November 23, 1998 - 12:45 am:

    FUCK the "necessary" evil that is insurance companies. I would consider myself a hero if I killed every single member of every single insurance company's board of directors. Here's how I'd like to do it: I'd give all of them a liquid nitrogen enema and then drop them all on their asses whereupon their asses would shatter and then slowly and painfully thaw. This should kill most anyone.

    Really, I'm not into killing, but I HATE everything about insurance. It's evil evil evil.

    EEEEEEEVVIILLLLLLLLL!!!!!

    That is a nice sentence, though. The one about the mortar and pestle. And while I've laughed along with the Friends, Space Ghost is the best thing on TV these days. Did anyone see the one where Zorak and Moltar copped an attitude? Man oh man that was funny. . .


By Mel on Monday, November 23, 1998 - 01:28 am:

    Have you ever known anyone who was ill, Dave? I have a bad taste in my mouth about insurance companies, but they are necessary. They're just soulless. My oldest brother had multiple sclerosis. Without insurance, we would never have been able to cope with the medical bills. Then the limits started kicking in. The worst was "pre-existing condition." By the time he was no longer able to walk, the insurance company (Blue Cross/Blue Shield. My Dad used to say "BC/BS...stone age bullshit!") wouldn't pay for a wheelchair.

    This is why I prefer to talk about TV shows and pesto.

    And why the phrase "mortal and pestle" has been running through my mind all day. Mortals in the grind; mortals being crushed.

    Not a nice sentence.

    'Night.


By NZAngel on Monday, November 23, 1998 - 05:14 pm:

    Okay, you guys have just confirmed what I have thought for a long time about the US health system: it sucks.

    Unfortunately, there is a movement here amongst our stupid fat rich politicians to change to a more "American" style health system. We need an election soon so we can chuck those bastards out before they mess it up anymore.

    (Our Prime Minister (who is kind of like the president, but not really since the Queen is the head of state) has so far in her political career: destroyed the social welfare system, overseen huge changes to the health system that they now admit were a mistake and are undoing, bringing it to it's knees in the process, and now is busy screwing up the rest of our country) What a bitch!


By Mel on Monday, November 23, 1998 - 09:41 pm:

    I'm assuming that the part of the American health system that sucks is privatization. By that I mean that every insurance company and health provider is its own entity, a business like any other beholden only to the laws of supply and demand.

    As opposed to something like a National Health.

    Ah hell, I don't know. I think that the real problem is that the U.S. is such a to-the-marrow capitalist state that it's just unwilling to compromise between general welfare and economics.

    All I know is: I've got to move to NZ.


By NZAngel on Monday, November 23, 1998 - 11:45 pm:

    Come on over, there's plenty of room!

    You're right abt the privatisation - it sucks that the amount of care you can get over there depends on how much money you have. Here, you can still get most treatments, but some you have to wait for, particularly if the condition isn't life threatening.

    My new job offers subsidised health insurance after 1 year, and I'll be signing up the day I become elegible. Company schemes like that also cover pre-existing conditions, which is good.


By R.C. on Tuesday, November 24, 1998 - 08:54 pm:

    DAVE! What an ingenious way to kill someone!
    ;) But where to get the liquid nitro?

    And I need something a little more surreptitious. With the proper equipment/wd it be possible to encapsulate the liquid nitrogen/so I cd feed it to my annoying neighbor? The caps wd keep her alive long enuf to alow her to leave the premesis & GET OUT OF MY FUCKING HOUSE WITH HER BORING TALES OF BORING SEX WITH HER BORING HUSBAND & her whining abt how he doesn't talk to her! So long as she doesn't croak on my property/I can play it off.

    She makes a habit of visiting me on Monday nites. Why/you ask? Becuz her husband sits stuck to the couch like a lump of mashed potatoes/staring at Monday Nite Football! I refuse to date or associate w/males who are all abt staring at sports on the tube/becuz I DESPISE THAT SHIT! It certainly limits the size of my potential date pool/but that's the price ya pay for knowing what you want. WHY wd this chattering tub of lard marry a man who is addicted to football when she hates the fact that he stares at the tube all day Sunday & all nite Monday/& won't pay any attention to her? And why doesn she think *I* want to hear abt how how infrequent the sex is btwn them/& how glad she is that he's happy w/just getting head from her/rather than wanting actual intercourse? (NEWSFLASH -- IF YR MAN WAS GENUINELY INTO YOU/HE WDN"T BE WILLING TO SETTLE FOR JUST ORAL SEX!)


    Arrrghuuhhh -- I swear/I'm gonna kill that chick if she rings my doorbell one more time this week!
    Plus, the 2 of them keep feeding my cat on the sly! I keep cutting back on her portions/but Six is still gaining weight. Now I know why/becuz I busted the 2 of THEM giving her cat treats! (What is THAT abt? I mean/I'm not above tossing her a slice of pepperoni when I'm making pizza. But these cretins actually BUY special, pre-packaged snacks for their [morbidly obese] cats!


    [Sorry guys. *sigh* Just needed to vent a little.]


    P.S.
    NZA -- I will personally volunteer to help you plot to assasinate the NZ Prime Minister. I work at a pathology practice/& spend all day trying to decipher the whys & wherefores of which carrier pays what amt. for which CPT. I've only been there a month/& no one has been able to explain to me why it is legal for the our employers to charge $20 for reading one woman's PAP smear/but only $8.58 for another -- based on whatever rate their insurance plan negotiated w/us. Whatkindashitisthat?! How dw you feel if you went to the grocery store & had to pay $10 for a quart of milk becuz of where you work /while the person on line behind you gets the same quart of milk for $2.50? THAT is what will happen if your country switches to a managed- care (trans: manage-for-maximum-profits) system.
    And any public servant who wd suggest such a thing deserves to be eviscerated -- then sent to the Emergency Room of a for-profit U.S. hospital w/out an insurance card.




By NZAngel on Tuesday, November 24, 1998 - 10:42 pm:

    It gets worse - we have a "no fault" accident compensation scheme here, which picks up the tab for accident related medical care, paid for by "premiums" deducted from wages and paid by employers (to cover work related injuries) and vehicle registrations (to cover car accidents). It has become unaffordable, because people get on ACC, which pays up to 80% of what they used to earn, then don't get back to work. So they stopped giving out lump sum compensation abt 10 years ago and refocussed to try and get people working. Trouble is, there aren't enough jobs around, so a lot of people just get moved from ACC to unemployment.

    I know a number of people who have had trouble with ACC. My older sister was in a car accident abt 4 or 5 years ago (not her fault) and still suffers the effects. But she is back at work, and is having trouble getting ACC to keep paying for physio etc to keep her there. (I figure its cheaper to pay for regular physio than 80% of her not inconsiderable salary if she has to quit work again!)

    Another woman I know was knocked over by a snowboarder last winter, rupturing a ligament in her knee. She needs a small operation (day surgery) to tidy it up, and ACC have approved funding. But she can only have the operation in a public hospital, and they have stopped doing knee ops because they've spent their budget for the year already (and the budget year runs July-June!). So she is in pain, and doesn't know when she'll get her "fully funded" op.

    RC If you assassinate our PM, you'll be a national hero!


By MoonUnit on Wednesday, November 25, 1998 - 01:18 am:

    YAY RC

    My mum had a formal investigation into her OOS (thats carpal tunnel syndrome i think for you americans) by acc because she'd had so long off work Shes only been doing that work for the past 23 years....of course its time to rip off the system NOT!
    the woman couldnt move her head and right arm, and acc wanted a formal investigation! bastards


By R.C. on Wednesday, November 25, 1998 - 09:16 pm:

    See, that's where I beg to differ. If you're out on the slopes w/snowboarders/you are assuming a certain level of personal risk/just as when you're out playing on a football field or a basketball court. Now/if she was just standing in front of the ski shop sipping a hot toddie/& some radical boarder bashed into her/HE shd pay for her medical treatment. But that treatment shd be available thru a gov't run/taxpayer-financed/ not-for-profit healthcare system that allows her to choose which doctors she wants to see/& what treatment alternatives she wants to pursue based on their recommendations. I don't think you shd have to sue someone to get the care you require to put yrself back together after an accident where you were not at fault. But the person who injured you shd be responsible for paying for yr treatment out of his own pocket. We're not talking immunizations & routine care here.

    And whazzup w/this June-July budget thing? If NZers fund their healthcare system thru payroll deductions/everyone knows the money will be there in Aug. & Sept -- why can't they operate on a rolling budget & just carryover the expenditures into the next quarter? If it's a not-for-profit/it doesn't matter if they spent more $$ this June than they did last June. There will be a continual
    source of funds to pay for treatment becuz The People fund the healthcare system. And it shd be obligated by law to provide care on demand when someone is in pain/even from a non-life- threatening condition.

    That is the equivalent of our Medicaid system (which provides healthcare for the very poor) telling a woman in labor she can't deliver her baby becuz the Ob-Gyn clinic has run out of funds til Jan 1st. Which is absurd!


By R.C. on Wednesday, November 25, 1998 - 09:29 pm:

    See, that's where I beg to differ. If you're out on the slopes w/snowboarders/you are assuming a certain level of personal risk/just as when you're out playing on a football field or a basketball court. Now/if she was just standing in front of the ski shop sipping a hot toddie/& some radical boarder bashed into her/HE shd pay for her medical treatment. But that treatment shd be available thru a gov't run/taxpayer-financed/ not-for-profit healthcare system that allows her to choose which doctors she wants to see/& what treatment alternatives she wants to pursue based on their recommendations. I don't think you shd have to sue someone to get the care you require to put yrself back together after an accident where you were not at fault. But the person who injured you shd be responsible for paying for yr treatment out of his own pocket. We're not talking immunizations & routine care here.

    And whazzup w/this June-July budget thing? If NZers fund their healthcare system thru payroll deductions/everyone knows the money will be there in Aug. & Sept -- why can't they operate on a rolling budget & just carryover the expenditures into the next quarter? If it's a not-for-profit/it doesn't matter if they spent more $$ this June than they did last June. There will be a continual
    source of funds to pay for treatment becuz The People fund the healthcare system. And it shd be obligated by law to provide care on demand when someone is in pain/even from a non-life- threatening condition.

    That is the equivalent of our Medicaid system (which provides healthcare for the very poor) telling a woman in labor she can't deliver her baby becuz the Ob-Gyn clinic has run out of funds til Jan 1st. Which is absurd!


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