I read in the January issue of Allure magazine an interview with Elizabeth Hurley. In it she says that Marilyn Monroe used to be her idol when she was kid, but now, "if I were that fat I'd kill myself." Then she describes how she went to the auction of Monroe's things and took a tape measure to the dresses and 'verified' that Monroe was indeed 'very large.' What comments are necessary?

The only comment I have is that hopefully Liz will go on a lemon danish binge soon and relieve us all of this problem.

The famous white gown MM wore to sing to JFK in was reportedly a size 12. Which is the size most American women wear. I'm a size 12 & I like my bod. And I'd look better in that dress than Hurley ever cd/becuz it was made for someone w/hips & boobs. (Altho' I think I'd need some help filling out the top.) The Liz Hurley's of this world will never be nominated for an Oscar & not be remembered once they pass 35 & are no longer seen at a theatre near you/becuz their looks are gone & they had to talent to start with. Monroe wd be conisdered fat by today's standards/ becuz today's standards are so fascist. But she has endured as the world's greatest sex symbol for more than 3 decades now/a status which Hurley can only dream of. MM had the goodies. For sure. And only a catty bitch wd call her fat.

MM may not have been even close to being in shape (ie, healthy) but she was still sexy. There are a lot of women who aren't Hurley-burlesque and are still sexy as all get out. It's funny how easily our thoughts and preferences are manipulated, hmm?

wait a minute- have you guys seen MM? when she was young she was very thin. and i've only seen a couple of pictures where she even starts to look fat.

one two three four

not fat beautiful

You know, i always though she was beautiful, but never attractive. Maybe because it's so much of an "in-your-face" deal with her - because she is primarily an icon of mid-century beauty. I personally thought Jayne Mansfield and Hedy Lamarr always had her beat.

droop- you'll have to use some words how do you think she looks in those pictures?

i wasn't expressing an opinion, it was just some pictures i had found here and posted for visual aid of this gripping discussion. if you want my opinion i think she looks fine and this is all bullshit and the only other opinion i have is that she was in one of my favorite movies - Some Like It Hot. and if this becomes another chat about fat debacle, the offer from project eat american still stands. i need a drink.

Is Project Eat American anything like Jonathan Swift's solution for the Irish famine?

Just because today's models resemble broomsticks in girth doesn't mean MM was fat...That girl was gorgeous. I think what made her was having the moves...

just a modest proposal, rhiannon. no more.

speaking of vanity, here are a few quotes from some intellectual giants of our age: http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod/supermodel.html

A Bobbie put up that page, I went and checked.

what's a bobbie? I read those quotes and they really aren't that stupid. One or two of them were stupid, but mostly they were just the kinds of things I'd expect normal people to say. beautiful people may have big egos from being told they're beautiful all the time, but that doesn't nessesarily mean they're stupid. as for the topic: I think after a while, Marilyn turned into a really great actor.

Bobbie: one who claims to be a SubGenius without paying "Bob" his due ($30). Easily spottable by the common Bobbie mistake of not putting the sacred quation marks around the holy name of "Bob". I spotted that the list was originally posted on alt.slack, the Subg newsgroup, and went back to that guy's page, where I discovered the non-use of quotation marks.

I think if you're going to put a lot of your time and energy into some religion/cult/joke, it's probably better not to give them your money too. funny that that's how it usually works, though.

I don't find Marilyn Monroe attractive in any aspect. We've already had that discussion.

yes, but isn't it just the ultimate sorabjite act to make the life of a dead movie star into a social and or philosophical issue.

oh yeah - the church of the subgenius was started here in texas by a couple of guys. i remember when they first started broadcasting on listener-supported community radio. ivan stang and the hour of slack. i never bought the books, but i always sent a couple of bucks around pledge time to support what i saw as a creative effort. anybody who made a tape that was sufficiently weird could get on one of there tape melanges.

still can. The thing with sending money to the CotS, You get actual physical material things in return, all of whcih I considered well worththe money, especially the cd compilation of subgenius tunes, which rendered me incapable of doing any meaningful work at all when I listened to it in the office. If i had gotten into the Church when I was in high school, i would either had become unstoppable or tied to a bag of rocks at the bottom of the lake.

Oh, what I meant to say was, MM would've been a lot sexier if she had BIG, RED STRAPS. "The Three Diseases of the SubGenius are: 1) Short-term memory loss, 2) Tourette's Syndrome and 3) Short-term memory loss." - Saint Rev. Byron Werner

Are they the one that dub themselves popes? Or is that the Discordians? I saw one of their books in a comic store and it wasn't remotely humorous like I thought it'd be. I'm going to Port Townsend next weekend to see the weird bookstore with all those great nifty things. ...Aren't they the same ones who claimed there'd be something big on such a such date in new york, and people went, and some big guy finally showed up and said they had read the date upside down? Yeah, I think it was them.

That's the diskordians. E.L.F. I've actually read the various books of these cults, and find them amusing fodder--some of the stuff is interesting, but I never really went into actually joining in...

back in my day it was $20. but i'm sure that has expired. since most of the important dates have passed.

I love the Principia Discordia. The book is better, and pretty, but it's absoloutely smashing. Hail Eris.

I love Tony Curtis and Jack Lemmon. I also have a Cary Grant weakness. But we all know it's all about Gregory Peck as Atticus Finch, and I'm not going to hunt around to pull up the multiplicity of places we agreed on that. For actresses, baby, it's Kim Novak.

Cary Grant not only was he handsome he tripped too.

I like: Marlon Brando (in "A Streetcar Named Desire," especially *sigh*) Gene Kelly Gary Cooper Carole Lombard Loretta Young Mae West too.

Audrey Hepburn...hubba hubba........ i find the resurgence of commercial culture spawing belemics, as in actresses like hurly, flockhart, courtney cox, laura flyn bloyle seriously disturning. Most men i talk to do not find this attractive. marilyn was NOT fat, though not too attractive to me for she wasn't very bright, and i don't care for blondes...she did have curves and curves are sexy on a woman. Curves are natural. Some bodyfat is natural. Rail thin is unnatural and those species will die off soon enough.....If marilyn was fat, my wife is considered fat, and that's utter bullshit. marylin's figure is very sexy in those pics.........fucking bullshit, and the part that angers me is, little girls nation wide are hearing and seeing this and thinking it's the norm.....thats bad marylin was a horrible actress,

I always thought http://users.deltanet.com/users/dstickne/ava5.jpg ava gardner was the one. Frank Sinatra was a lucky bastard. Coming in a close second, sophia http://users.deltanet.com/users/dstickne/loren.htm

why would anyone think that marilyn monroe was fat? i don't get it. there was nothing fat about her. then again, i've heard idiots bitching about mae west & jayne mansfield's "weight problems", too. i don't get the whole concept of fatphobia. if a person's got some weight on them, it's not a problem. people can look good w/ meat on their bones. i've dated some seriously overweight people & it doesn't bother me a bit. i think that heavy-set people get picked on far too much--for no good reason. when people crank up the idiocy even further & start criticizing even relatively thin people for not being thin enough...well, it doesn't help anybody. people can be beautiful, regardless of their outer appearance. it's a great equalizer, to me. everyone's got a shot at being beautiful. most people fuck it up by having a shitty attitude. but beauty can exist in the places people least expect it. i like to hunt it out. i love being surprised by beauty. it happens to me a lot & i never get tired of it.

mmm ava gardner

word...

I use to be real skinny and I put on weight,I know I look better now,my husband say,s I look better now,and what about Garbo? She was beautiful in my book and Lorretta Young

sophia loren run across an old film, all you can say is wow

the model on the photog shoot i assisted on last friday, she had breast implants, she was really gorgeous, but when she moved a certain way, you could seem stretch marks.....YUUUUCKK!!!!! plus she showed like 3 emotions throughout 8-9 rolls of film,,,, her only modeling experience was probably for t&a shots, despite her beauty, she was lifeless.....however her stylist, she had some great outfits and had more emotion and "spunk" then i have seen in a while, not to mention some very eager nipples. thats all i saw throughout the whole shoot......the studio was kinda cold, and well, it was nipple nipple nipple...god damn!!!!!! .....hmmm, what did this have to do with anything????? ahem carry on....

breast implants...eek. doesn't matter how pretty a woman's face might be--if she's got fake tits, forget about it. other folks seem to like silicon & that's cool...but it's something that's just always grossed me out, personally. at least when the fake tits in question happen to be on a man, they've got the novelty factor going for them. i've known a couple of guys who either grew or got tits. still, the look & feel of implants is enough to send me running. sophia loren...yeah, she's a bit of all right. jayne mansfield. betty page. the eternal mamie van doren. clara bow, even. they're still a bit processed-looking, but what the hell. they beat most of today's anorexia queens.

The recently deceased Hedy Lamarr doesn't get enough attention. Beautiful, talented, and brains. She invented and patented spread spectrum technology as a way of securing Allied communications during WWII, but unfortunately, no one was interested. Of course today, the technology is used for wireless telephony, long after her patent ran out.

I actually knew that,my mother use to date a guy that always said I looked like her.I saw some movies she was in and didn,t think I looked like her,I felt sorry for her when she got busted for shoplifting.

I've met Clara Bow's son. Rex Bell. He and his wife watched us kids while our parents were at our grandmother's wake. And my grandfather once saw Claudette Colbert at a party (he was one of Paramount Pictures' accountants) and asked her to dance. She said no. He told me she had nice legs.

lauren bacall and rita hayworth were very pretty.

Aye, cyst, that they were. Bonnie lasses, the both of them.

Indeed. Marilyn was a horrible actress, and none too bright. But if she was used instead of Kate Moss as a role model for people's bodies, things would be much easier on our anorexic high school girls.

If we would even have such a thing.

anyone who says Marilyn can't act probably never saw her in "The Misfits". She wasn't all about romantic-comidies, you know. and she WASN'T DUMB! She was blond and soft-spoken and a "sex idol", but she was not Dumb!! Ginger Rogers is my favorite of the old time gals. She was GORGEOUS and had a huge sassy attitude in some movies. I loved that about her. audrey hepburn looked like a little girl.

anyone who says Marilyn can't act probably never saw her in "The Misfits". She wasn't all about romantic-comidies, you know. and she WASN'T DUMB! She was blond and soft-spoken and a "sex idol", but she was not Dumb!! Ginger Rogers is my favorite of the old time gals. She was GORGEOUS and had a huge sassy attitude in some movies. I loved that about her. audrey hepburn looked like a little girl. pardon: a little Boy.

darn. oh well.

I have seen most of her movies, actually, and was singularily unimpressed with her acting ability. I admit, I never met her personally, but judging from her choice of men and the biographies I've read, she wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. I never saw the misfits, come to think of it.

see it. SEE IT.

Gee,the diva bullshit she pulled during the filming of that movie is what killed Clark Gabel,I,m old enough to be your mom,trust me.

hold me J

Bah.

Clark Gable was a jerk with bad breath. And HE could not act. So sayeth Vivian Leigh. So sayeth we all!

Vivian Leigh was crazy,how do you know Clark Gabel had bad breath?

Vivian Leigh used to gargle with perfume to ensure good breath, so her standards were probably pretty high.

And she probably didn't spit it out when she was done either....she swallowed it. that way she made sure her shit didn't stink.

bad breath and perfume stank all mixed together that's what i'm thinkin.

The aforementioned screen sirens all had it going on/but Dorothy Dandridge/Sophia Loren/& Liz Taylor (circa 1950-1965) were the HOTTEST of the hotties, IMO. I loved the Grace Kelly's fire-&-ice-princess vibe. And she looked great in anything/but she was way too skinny to be realllly sexy. I wonder what happened to that kind of Hollywood glamour...? There are hundreds of beautiful actresses today. But the only ones that strike me as really drop-dead glamourous are Sharon Stone/Catherine Zeta Jones/& La Loren - still! I wd eat hot fuck to have that dress she wore to last year's Oscars.

You think? I always thought Michelle Pfeiffer had the kind of luminous screen-loving beauty that made her IT where others lacked her lustre. I had a thing for Gina Lollabrigida when I was younger.

Yes -- I forgot that Michelle is great for creating that effortless glamour look when awards time rolls around. And she never does stupid things to her hair/like some actresses. But again/she's too bony for my tastes.

when is aw Cidar House Rules, the character Candy, was played by this woman: http://us.imdb.com/Gallery?0138304;;2 Charlie Theron i thought she had very "classic hollywood" look. In Cidar House Rules, she had longer curly hair, at times she could have passed for a M.Monroe. She is absolutely gorgeous and convincing, The brief nude scene would knock you on your ass as far as beauty goes and i have never been seriously attracted blondes.. and it seems she is from South Africa. Strangele enough, the only other South African I have ever met was a knock out blonde as well..........what up with that?

cider cider

Sophia Lauren's got it goin' big time.

Charlize Theron. Flavor of the week model who's trying to push into acting. Doesn't do anything for me, other than being tall. Afrikaners are better looking than the English South Africans.

is she afrikaner? she looks dutch, but her name sounds french.

I believe she's Dutch, but I'm just talking outta my ass now. Don't know why I have that in my head. If I'm authoritative on anything, it's not supermodels.

what's with all the Vivian Leigh knocking? She's a champ, you hosers. J - Viv wrote about having to kiss Clark in "Gone With the Wind" and how he was always putting the moves on her and Olivia and that he had bad breath. and she wasn't crazy. wasn't she Depressed?

she is from South Afirca, as I said. I am not sure if she is a flash in the pan as you say....she has been around for several years in supporting and smaller roles..... see? http://us.imdb.com/Name?Theron,+Charlize I dunno, markus, i haven't met many afrikaners, and I am not sure if I could name too many in the public spotlight, but the few i know of are pretty damn beautiful....

"Her father is French, her mother German....Theron is an Afrikaans name from South Africa, and it is pronounced 'Te-ron', as opposed 'Ther-on.'" I'm not sure why she's got an Afrikaner name if her father's French.

Gee,I,ve always thought Vivian Leigh was beautiful and a great actress,but she was wayyy more than depressed.Maple Leaf,that was good:)

Vivian Leigh did have severe mental problems, even tried to jump out of a moving plane at one time. But its not crazy to complain about Clark Gables clacking false teeth and his bad breath. And Marilyn wasn't a bad actress,anything but,nor was she stupid-----except maybe getting involved with the Kennedy clan,that family doesn't seem to have positive affects on anybody.

Thanks J :0)

Thank YOU,that was funny.

i've seen very few MM flicks but they were all pretty bad- unless that's how she intended to be- then i'd just have to call it annoying.

MM is awsome and she is my role model and my grandmothers she had a beautiful voice and she was a very beautiful woman and she is prolly rolling over on here grave right now if she hurd some of the thing you guys are saying ,,,,,most of u r positive but some are not and you should be ashamed

she played a ditz in what i've seen nice role model [sarcasm for those who can't tell] unless you're talking about modeling your ass after hers oops, did i say that?

an actor is more than the roles she plays. in reality she was smart, ambitious, and passionate. She made some mistakes, but she certainly pursued her dreams with gusto, and I think that's pretty admiable. and, provided she wasn't playing a ditz, she had some real talent.

I think she was great at playing a ditz. She had a charming sense of humor. (Seriously -- "Is it true you had nothing on during the photo shoot, Miss Monroe?" "Oh, no, I had the radio on." -- that is cute.)

she was a bad actor

hi everybodyi am so belemic and it sucks!!!not a fun thing to do !!!

So make a sandwich for the love of God,that puking ruins your teeth.

"O Porno Mio !.." "According to the German site http://www.prisma-online.de/bbv-net/person.html?pid=sophia_loren - gorgeous Italian superstar Sophia Loren dabbled in the pornographic arts before she met her hero husband Carlo Ponti. We don't read German these days, but through the translating semi miracle that is http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish - we were able to turn this: "...Eigentlich war es ihre Mutter, die gerne Schauspielerin werden möchte, doch sie hat kein Glück. Tochter Sofia dagegen hat zumindest Erfolg als Fotomodell. Beim Schönheitswettbewerb entdeckt sie dann ein Filmagent. Doch der Anfang ist schwer. Man versucht, das hübsche junge Talent auszunutzen. Als Sofia Lazzaro wirkt sie in einer großen Anzahl unbedeutender Filme mit. Darunter auch PORNOFILME, doch ihr späterer Ehemann Carlo Ponti kauft alle Filme auf, um mögliche Veröffentlichungen und Skandale zu verhindern..." into this: "...Originally it was Sofia’s mum who wanted to become an actress, but she had no luck. Her daughter Sofia in the contrary had at least success as a photo model. She was then discovered at a beauty competition by a film agent. But every start is tough. People tried to exploit the beautiful young talent. As Sofia Lazzaro she does a big number of insignificant movies. Among them also pornographic movies, but her later husband Carlo Ponti buys them all to prevent possible publication and scandals..." ...................................................................................................................................................................................................................... http://img136.exs.cx/img136/6603/sophialorenrarelesbianscene0ui.jpg http://www.afreeimagehost.com/upload/8445/S-Loren-Lost-Porn.jpg Who knew? We love her even more now." - WOWReport