Ok, so I know a few months ago I had this big long thing where I was all about celebrating menstruation--woman power and all that fun hippie stuff. Well, I take it all back. I've got cramps from hell. I can't move. I feel like I'm gonna throw up, and I'd be a hell of a lot happier in my life right now if I had a penis and no ovaries.

have you tried excedrin?

I hate menstrating. I'm glad I stopped when I switched to depo.

I can't wait to never have to ride the cotton cowboy,if you have to get old anyway,that's a perk.

It sure is. Ride the cotton cowboy! I love it.

i thought it was cotton pony.

I thought so too. Oh well.

"neigh!!!"

Isolde, you're on depo? Since when? slowly but surely I'm converting the whole dang world!

WOMEN, YOU ARE CRAZY ENOUGH. geezuz. please. stop the maddenes.

Since a long-ass time ago. Sorry, Nate. It's more convenient, I don't get noticeable side effects--no one could tell when I switched. Yay depo.

i will refrain from my typical anti hormone birth control rant. but it's hard... ok, i can't do it. i just have to say it, fuck almighty ladies, stop fucking up your bodies by taking the pill and depo and all that crap. it's just wrong. ok. i feel better. i forget what i was going to say now.

Oh well. the reason I take it, even though I don't really like birth control either, is that the only pregnancy I can have is a tubal pregnancy (according to the almighty medical establishment), and I can't afford that. It would be extremely dangerous to me if it went undiscovered. So, I take every precaution that I possibly can to prevent pregnancy. Of course, the obvious one is just to not have sex...but that's too easy.

*taps foot* ...waiting on the male pill... i'll be first in line...condoms suck unbelievably

They do. What's the eta on the male pill? A couple years?

star date 4031

Excellent. I'll keep being needled, then.

"i'll keep being needled, then" ... nah. that's just too damn easy.

No, I meant I'll keep being injected, not I'll keep being irrtated. Whoops. I'm glad that you're pro male pill, Patrick. I know a lot of guys who are against it for some reason. Whatever.

because they are pussies. bring me any man who would rather slap on a raincoat than take a pill. *i say this without knowing any data on side effects* but the idea of a pill, in theory is a-ok to me. im sure you could find some sort of sexist rational behind men either not wanting to develop the male pill or not wanting to consider taking it on principle.

You want birth control? *snip. snip* there you go. Isolde, have you considered just getting your "tubes tied" (forgot the technical term)? I mean, if according toteh docs, you can only have tubal pregnancies, which is not good at all, why not just remove the possibility of it happening at all? unless you want kids, but I think I remember that you are against that (huzzah!) I would take a male pill if there were no appreciable side effects. It would be interesting to know what it feels like to have sex without a condom.

you havenever had sex without a condom? *GASP* shit man... thats like riding a bike with training wheels all your life man..

ya man. you should find one of those whores that let you do them without a condom and just go for it.

i'll be sure to drop sem a line next time your mom takes a trip through the midwest. "male birth control"? fuck that. no way in hell i'm letting the pharmaceutical industry tamper with my delicate body chemistry. shit. you've gotta be out of your fucking mind. goddamn. the very thought makes my balls turn cold and shrivel up. you people are not well. i'm outta here.

I don't like children. I've been considering having my tubes tied. Right now, I can't afford it, and maybe eventually I'll be able to. I'm kind of nervous about people cutting up my parts, though.

isn't this the same group of people that pop illigal drugs like candy and drink till their heads fall off? go depo go! rah rah siss boom etc.

what the HELL...? listen, mister, do you want the whole fucking world filled up with starving kids with stds, homeless b/c "daddy" (some faceless creature of the night) didn't want to use any form of birth control, period? while women take care of the birth control issue by taking hormones? listen, boy, you're not the one with a fucking vagina, you're not the one with the equipment to bring a life into the world. birth control is a serious issue. it's being underused in many areas of the world, but it's also being used for genocide of the tibetians. and in some areas of the world, it's against the culture to have women practice birth control. women have been seriously downgraded in japan for taking the pill (women who take the pill, that is). actually, i don't think you should take that male pill. your balls are probably all shriveled up already, gangrenous and wanting to fall off because you cut off your dick and reattached it--to your neck.

Isolde,I thought you said you can't have kids in another thread.

I can't, see above when I discuss that.

whoa! damn pez.... yes gee, you are correct.

"...while women take care of the birth control issue by taking hormones?" pffffft. nitz.

Then why would you want your tubes tied?

pro-life doesn't mean anti-birth control. ooooh...that'd make a good bumper sticker. and yes, everyone is entitled to my opinion.

The above was to Isolde

what do you think "the pill" is? rat poison? i was in rant mode, you might notice. i did use sterotypes, but most of my friends are on the pill. i'm not, but then again, i'm not active.

everyone is entitled to nate's ass you may poroceed

hmmm...nate's ass...nate sass with tweaking the spelling and using accents (accente gu et accente droight) nate's ass sounds like naughty sauce.

If you could spell egu and doit, perhaps. Because I can still have a tubal pregnancy. See the problem?

yeeg. i've never seem them spelled out. i just know that i use them all the time. (that sounded stupid) but naughty sauce is so much fun to say.

uh, keep your naughty sauce to yourselves. this brings up an important issue. male reproductive rights. this is a major way that men are oppressed in society today. what are male reproductive rights, you ask? that's my point exactly. i'm not talking about forcing women to have abortions. however, when a woman becomes pregnant and the man does not want the child, he should not be forced to have it. if a woman is not forced to have a child, a man should not be forced to have a child. which means that when a man does not want a child there should be two options for the woman who does not want an abortion: 1) keep the child and sign away child care money. the man, of course, would sign away visitation rights. 2) put the child up for adoption.

It seems to me that women probably have a little more say in keeping or not keeping the baby, since after fertilization occurs, they have to devote quite a bit of energy and nutrients to growing the fetus. I think a more interesting question about male reproductive rights is if the man wants the child and teh woman doesn't. does teh man have a right to force the woman to go through with the pregnancy, then take the baby afterwards?

i think women should have all the say in whether or not to keep the baby. i do not think men should be held financially liable if they do not want the baby. the distinction is, the woman can choose to have the baby even if the man does not want it, however if she so chooses she cannot expect the man to pay support. i don't think a man has the right to require a woman to go full term.

Sem--I don't think so. If someone tried to do that to me, I would kill him. I mean, in my case especially, since it would kill me, but in any woman's case, she has the right to decide. If the man wants to baby, he could ask to do an in vitero (sp) if I wanted to, but...no. I think there are two people responsible for having a baby. I think that child support should be paid no matter what. My mother conned my father into giving her thousands of dollars in child support when I was spending equal time, which is illegal. But I think child support is an important institution. If anyone read the article on Nerve this week about promiscuity, the man might consider trying to prove he wasn't the father...but I really have a problem with people who evade child support. I know that sometimes a woman lies and cheats and is an ass, but I think that a man should pay child support. UNLESS, as you say, Nate, he signs away all visitation rights. I think that someone who still tries to see the child and puts up a fuss when he can't though he's not paying child support is a fuck. But if he makes it clear to her while abortion is still an option that he won't pay child support and doesn't want visitation rights, that's cool. Sucks for her if she decides to carry the child anyway, and is too poor, though.

she can always put the child up for adoption.

True...I'm curious, for those of us here who may have been through adoption/foster care, what did you think of it?

adoption, on a number of levels, really fucked up my life--or at least my childhood. the earliest adoption, though, wasn't so bad. it kept me from being a ward of the state. i do believe in adoption. not the sudden combining of sibling groups for the parents' convenience, either. i haven't seen that scenario go well very often. clueless parents think that shit's going to turn out like the brady bunch, & it doesn't. one thing that makes me believe in adoption is watching pilate w/ his kid. my god, he adores that boy. he's the most loving, caring father i've ever seen. & the kid's crazy about him. it's a perfect match.

i have not taken horomone birth control since 1992 and will never do so again. i agree with pez that birth control is a very serious issue. but there are effective alternative means to birth control, from condoms to the snip snip. i totally agree with nate about birth rights. this perhaps is one of the few sociopolitical issues on which we concur. i want to adopt, badly. Ron has a 5 year old kid named Alex, and i can't wait to meet him. Alex lives with his mom here on the island. i have never dated someone with a kid. i wonder if this will be really tricky?

the child issue continues to be a sore spot at the morrison house

I've come to a big decision in the last few months about children. At some stage in the future, if the universe is willing, I'm definitely having 'em. I feel so much more relaxed now I've given in and admitted to myself that I am as maternal as hell. After so long denying it, whilst I whipped up another batch of cookies for my nephews, I'm out! And proud! The reaction from my feminist mates has been interesting. Everything from requests to be at the birth to marble-cold silence.

Indeed, Patrick?

It was for me. Shit. But then, you guys are a tad older, more mature. Just don't date a 17 year old girl with a 2-year old kid. Actually, it'll probably be fine. Both my step parents had to do it, and they seemed to deal alright. They were even really cool about it, for the most part.

oh you bet isolde, she tends to romanticize the child thing...yet not leaning towards quit smoking, drinking and so on. or being in a good situation finacially. we aren't broke, but we still live like kids. we are still chasing our dreams, yet she is going to be 29 this Feb. so...its on her mind. I understand, but I'm just now knocking on 26's door...im so not ready...so even when i react less than slightly interested when a mention comes around, it tends to bum her out, she's pretty convinced I won't ever want to have kids....i'm not sure and thats my point...i'm just not sure, and for something like child raising, i need to be damn sure.

All I can say Patrick is, yeah, you're 26, but so what? If/when you want to and she wants to, do it. You can always find a way to make ends meet. I've used that rationalization too, "I'm too young to be a dad" and have ended up regretting it. Things tend to slip away; seize it if you want it.

i'd rather regret what i don't have, than what i do have and screwed up.

Yeah, advice is cheap. Do what you gotta do.

patrick, you can have control in that situation, if you choose to. just thought i'd point that fact out. if you ride bareback, then you may as well be saying that you want children.

if i may be explicit, we have exhausted birth control options, condoms don't fit, they often hurt and just don't work....everything else is no good for her. i have two BC options, snip snip or condoms. females have all kinds of options, the pros or cons are irrelavent. i realize the risk i take by barebacking...and would accept what comes of it... believe me it's been discussed

i'm just saying that for your protection, i'm not telling you to wear condoms if they make you unhappy. women who want babies will sometimes resort to irrational methods to get them, for example, no birth control. we're just a bunch of animals, when it comes right down to it. incidentally, i think you would be a fine father, but i sense that both you and nico would have some major life adjustments to make. it's not as hard as it seems, you just adjust without totally realizing how much it's changing your life, until retrospect.

I think you would raise wonderful children, but I agree some changes would have to be made. are those changes that you're ready to make for the next 18 years of your life?

yeah...you could end up with a kid like me...i don't think you'd want that. i want to have a big house full of kids. i don't care whose. just a big house full of healthy happy kids.

i WOULD NOT end up with a kids like you. we talk about it a lot, i try and keep myself from romanticizing the notion. I have grown more fond, felt more like i had something to offer as time has rolled on. Life adjustments? You got that right. Am I ready? not yet she thinks i'm still in mature.... thats fine, maybe so, im happy, and i TRY not to hurt anyone else, but to address that pez, i take it kinda seriously as I have vowed to not make the same mistakes as my parents, not that i wouldn't make my own...but i vow to AT LEAST not view my child as property, treat them as individuals, ask THEIR view even as a young kiddo barely able to speak, encourage independence, read to them, talk to them, even as infants, TRUST them, be firm when they do fuck up but not totalitarian....and so on, sheeeeeesh now i'm gettin all sappy over the notion. *returning to thoughts of canibis laced droool* thats really nice of your to say agatha, isolde..thank you the wife has made me promise to take a child psychology course if we breed....damn psych major...

'no way in hell i'm letting the pharmaceutical industry tamper with my delicate body chemistry.' yes. only tamper experimentally with your own delicate body chemistry. but what i think- i agree with sarah

yesh. go learn about how to turn a healthy happy child into a non-psychologist-needing adult. here's some tips: (1) don't threaten with a wooden spoon. (2) don't force anyone to eat something..maybe have a "one bite" rule. (3) you're not always right (actually, that was most recent. a discussion with my mom about colors and light. she'd aquired her associate's in interior design, i was taking physics. i don't remember if we ever agreed, but i do remember getting into an arguement when i brought my textbook into it.). wear sunscreen.

take your bitterness and split rather than direct it at me.... a wooden spoon can be a wonderful sex toy

shit. people have been smoking marijuana for over 3000 years, honey. the experiment is over and the results are in. let me know when you can offer up a comparable clinical test run on male birth control pills with similar results. anyway, i really don't need them anyway. i use condoms... because on the planet i live on, there's this thing called HIV that i'm trying to avoid. besides that, the woman i'm sleeping with won't have anything to do with oral contraceptives either.

Right on Swine. What also helps in the birth control department is to have a mate that is not into intercourse very much. As far as I can tell, that's pretty effective (although it didn't work for the Virgin Mary).

*snort* Yes, it's true. Children, for me, not liking. But for other people, it's fine.

sorry. trying to wean myself off the whining bit. but i was seriously afraid of wooden spoons when i was little. but now i have a bad kitty and i need to find a squirt gun.

Yay for squiriting kitties. What did she do?

i'm all for making kids eat things they don't want to eat. jesus. wtf is up with this modern idea that kids are free spirits who should be nurtured and given free reign? fuck that. kids need to be given a good start until they are old enough to make the choice to fuck it up themselves. GODDAMNIT. and squirting kitties is not good. make a noisemaker out of a can full of pennies.

Squirting kitties may not be good, but it sure is fun.

why is not good smart ass?

Please rephrase your question in the form of a real question.

why me laugh?

you no laugh no.

oh and going on the above thread.... does anyone know about this new "slip in gel pack" thingy that's supposed to be an alternative form of birth control? Personally, I'm on a hunt for an alternative method to condoms or the pill. I'm allergic to condoms. The only ones I've been able to find that don't make me react are those polyeurathane ones. (Which actually feel kind of nifty--they get all warm) I've been on the pill before. It fucks my hormones up and makes me fat. I'm pretty anti-chemicals in general. But I saw this thing in the drug store the other day..a little gel pack thing that coats the cervix and prevents pregnancy. Don't know the stats on it's reliability tho. I'm all about the woodpecker's use of lunaception. ;)

*smile* I don't know anything about it, sadly. I think that if a kid is too fucking stupid to eat, it's his own damn fault, and he can damn well wait until the next time food is availble, or eat what's on the table then. Sheesh.

sylvie jumps up on the table and drinks my glass of milk. i pour it down the drain and get a new glass. i left my platplate on the table after dinner. she enjoys cold tofu stir-fry with rice. she also belives that she needs piano lessons and is trying to cultivate her green thumb.

Hence, the need for the squirt gun. Don't let your daddy do to it what he did to your bunnies. Tell to him wait awhile; kittens don't have much meat.

try the squirt gun with your dad

Can I try your squirt gun Patrick?

bad bad bad bad bad bad BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD GIRL!!!!! ok