"It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them".

That has to be the most appropriate quote to ever appear on sorabji.

Damn, that should be our official motto.

No shit. I think that defines my first experiences here perfectly.

"Human beings are the only creatures that allow their children to come back home".

"As you journey through life take a minute every now and then to give a thought for the other fellow. He could be plotting something".

"Don't let a lack of qualifications stop you from pursuing your career goals. I was never qualified for any of the positions I achieved."

"When government takes responsibility for people, then people no longer take responsibility for themselves."

I don't give a SH**. If I did I would have to take SH**. And, I don't take SH** from anybody.

"Everything government touches turns to crap."

"Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too."

"Jesus slept"

"I don't practice what I preach, because I am not the sort of person I am preaching to."

"Every expansion of government budgets and statute books is another step towards the nationalization of the pursuit of happiness."

"What I claim is to live to the full contradiction of my time, which may well make sarcasm the condition of truth"

Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

Whoever controls the media, controls the mind.

Who let the dogs out?

"One man with a gun can control 100 without one."

Wake Up America!

"He who fights monsters should look into it that he himself does not become a monster. When you gaze long into the Abyss, the Abyss also gazes into you."

"There is a quake that rips the soul asunder. . . it is the pain of remembering."

How's your cell, Earl?

The more that is given the less people will work for themselves, and the less they work the more their poverty will increase.

"Nothing is ever done until everyone is convinced that it ought to be done, and has been convinced for so long that it is now time to do something else."

" Let me re-emphasize what I have been warning about since 1998. This is not only a religious war, it is history's first global guerrilla war, and it has barely begun. Investors, be prepared to live in a war economy for the rest of your lives. " Sept 2002 EWR

"Life is only a outer layer, for reality is only realized by the insane."

Fuck it. Lets do it.

"Anything I've ever done that ultimately was worthwhile...initially scared me to death."

I enjoyed myself from within myself on behalf of myself. Jesco White

"Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege"

"even samurai have teddy bears and even the teddy bears get drunk"

"to be nobody but yourself, in a world which is doing it's best, night and day, to make you everybody else, means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting" **IS ANYONE READING THESE?**

Yes

I read it E.E. and that quote rings a very familiar bell.

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."

antitermite propaganda! spunky you rotten nazi!

"They (the Jews) work more effectively against us, than the enemy's armies. They are a hundred times more dangerous to our liberties and the great cause we are engaged in... It is much to be lamented that each state, long ago, has not hunted them down as pest to society and the greatest enemies we have to the happiness of America."

"I fully agree with General Washington, that we must protect this young nation from an insidious influence and impenetration. The menace, gentlemen, is the Jews. In whatever country Jews have settled in any great number, they have lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is founded, by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within the state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal. For over 1,700 years, the Jews have been bewailing their sad fate in that they have been exiled from their homeland, as they call Palestine. But gentlemen, did the world give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some reason for not returning. Why? Because they are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live only among themselves. They must subsist on Christians and other people not of their race. If you do not exclude them from these United States, in their Constitution, in less than 200 years they will have swarmed here in such great numbers that they will dominate and devour the land and change our form of government, for which we Americans have shed our blood, given our lives our substance and jeopardized our liberty. If you do not exclude them, in less than 200 years our descendants will be working in the fields to furnish them substance, while they will be in the counting houses rubbing their hands. I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude Jews for all time, your children will curse you in your graves. Jews, gentlemen, are Asiatics, let them be born where they will nor how many generations they are away from Asia, they will never be otherwise. Their ideas do not conform to an American's, and will not even thou they live among us ten generations. A leopard cannot change its spots. Jews are Asiatics, are a menace to this country if permitted entrance, and should be excluded by this Constitutional Convention."

"Dispersed as the Jews are, they still form one nation, foreign to the land they live in."

everyone sucks a cock now and then.

"I am not in this world to live up to other people's expectations, nor do I feel that the world must live up to mine".

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right"?

"There's an ole saying in Tennessee, in Texas as well, but probably in Tennessee. It says 'Fool me once.........shame on.....*crickets*..... shame on you. Fool me can't get fooled again.'" -GW Bush What? it reminds of a quote of Ronald Reagan that went something to the effect of "What would this country be without this great land of ours?" Uhhhhhhhhhh Like i predicted before the dumbass got elected...in a years time, you won't find but a small percentage of people who admit that they voted for this nitwit of President.

i posted the video to that and nobody cared. <sniff> didja hear gore's speech? that boy can talk! made sense, too but this administration frowns on making sense unless it's dollars and cents. making money is making sense. (name that tune!)

i suppose John Stewarts spin last night on theat quote brought it to the forefront. If only more democrats would grab their nutsacks and follow inline with Gore's POV...unfortunately most of them are pussies and will sign off on the Attack Iraq Regardless Doctrine.

HOOOOHAAAAHOOOO Funny.

see, even spunky thinks the shrub's malapropisms are hilarious.

Well, I can say I could not speak very eloquently in public either. I get stage fright way too easily. I will say, without any hesitation, that I am very releived that Bush is in office instead of Gore.

"If I only had a brain"

"But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" Dumb song, dumb lyrics. Sorry.

Has anybody here read Blair's dossier on Iraqs weapons?

BAH! There's little in it im sure. IF they had evidence we'd be hearing all kinds of specifics. This is an opinion i can trust: "However, Maj. Charles Heyman, editor of Jane's World Armies, said the dossier "does not produce any convincing evidence ... that Saddam Hussein has to be taken out straight away." "What it does do," he said, "is produce very convincing evidence that the weapons inspectors have to be pushed back into Iraq very quickly." Blair can shove it up his ass...fucking lapdog.

I read the most extraordinary analysis of Blair's position the other day....let me see if I can dig it up.

Oh, yes: ****************** He's trying to pursue this all-party (note the avid (opposition party) Tory support of the US policy), long-term, main plank of UK Foreign Policy (standing with the US) in conjunction with a man (Bush) whose motivations he entirely distrusts and agenda he disagrees with – IMHO, this particular scenario (a conservative US president with self-serving agenda's, strutting on the international stage) is, literally, the worst-case scenario for a British PM. I rather imagine he wants the next two (plus) years to be over as soon as possible and for the US electorate to vote in a politician. Yet the further Blair goes in his support of Bush, the more exposed he is domestically – bridging this cavernous divide is costing him an awful lot of credibility at home as the perceived flaws (evidence, motivation, Mandate....) are exploited by others for their own gain (though, curiously, the Official Opposition isn't amongst them). ************* I can imagine the chronic stomache-ache that man must have.

Please explain to me the logic of arguing for more inspections and resolutions? This man is a mennace. He has been and he continues to be. No one has explained to me yet how things have improved since 1998. Where was the "Anti-War" effort then? Where were the hearings on Capital Hill? Where was Daschell saying "We cannot act unilateraly, we need UN Resolutions before we act" in 1998?

There are plenty of menaces in the world trace. Why is that reason to go to war? There is no modern historical doctrine to support an unprovoked attack. Its against international law dumbass! Just because things havent improved since 98 per se doesnt sound the war bells. There was no war drum beating in 98 because a Bush looking for control of oil and revenge wasnt in the office. Who gives a shit what Dashele was doing. If we knew where his alleged nuclear weapons sites, don't you think we would 'fed exed' some mother fuckin Cruise missles by now? And while you are asking questions....based on your assessment of why we should attack...tell me why we arent heading to North Korea? They have a greater military capability than Saddam? Just like our expedition into Afghanistan, you present your evidence, then you go. They did that to NATO and to the UN. All parties agreed we had sufficient evidence. Where the fuck is the evidence now trace?

"There was no war drum beating in 98 because a Bush looking for control of oil and revenge wasnt in the office." No, no war drums. ??? As far as evidence, what the fuck? I am sorry, have you gone completely mad???

1996 War Drums

I cant beleive I let you drag this thread down this road, dammit!!! It was supposed to be about quotes that were relevant to shit going on today. EVERYONE IS EVIL EVERYONE HAS ALTERIAR MOTIVES THEY SHOULD ALL BE INVADED THEY SHOULD ALL BE LEFT ALONE In the end, it should be about your end. Protecting it, that is.

first you have to separate them from the republican collective hive mind before you can even hope to get reasonable responses from them. i happened to listen to rush for a few minutes today and it was verbatim what hannity and o'reilly and chris matthews say, which is verbatim what the administration has to say. they attack their opponents for using the exact same tactics they used when the dems were in office. with a straight face (look close enough and you'll note the smirk) they chide gore and the democrats in congress for playing politics, reacting to polls and betraying the public. step right up, join the republican party! join today and you get a free teeth sharpening from karl rove himself! chew through any democratic ass out there -- guaranteed! ass chewing was never this good!

Trace you've gotten off track. You arent telling us anything new. The only thing most of us are arguing against is acting unilaterally, acting against international law, national building, acting aggressively against a sovereign nation whose level of threat against the US has yet to be determined and setting a dangerous dangerous precident for pre emptive war. The evidence? Yes dumbass, i want evidence that what was verified and destroyed by UNESCOM has been rebuilt. Where's the nuclear technology? Where's the proof that he has capability to launcha biological weapon. According to Scott Ritter, he doesnt have the ability to deliver Anthrax. According to Scott Ritter his chemical weapons have exceeded their shelf life. I want proof that they have chemical weapons that are currently pose a threat!! Also, you should note, according to Scott Ritter: Question- What were the circumstances that led the U.N. weapons inspectors to leave Iraq in December 1998? The Bush administration and the media often repeat that Saddam "kicked out" the weapons inspectors, and that's why we face the necessity of war today. Answer- Nothing could be further from the truth. The Iraqis did not kick the inspectors out in December 1998. The Americans ordered the inspectors out, and then bombed Iraq using intelligence information gathered by the inspectors to target Saddam Hussein and his security apparatus. i didnt drag this thread down this road dipshit, J asked a question, i responded to her. Then you asked some questions and i responded to you. If you dont want answers, dont ask questions. and lastly....we're on the verge of an ujust, illegal war. The president and his crew of hawks are making the world more dangerous for me and my family whether you realize it or not (HELLO!!!) if you expect me to act anything less than rabid, passionate and enflamed like a hemorrhoid on a LA bus drivers ass in August you can just pack up and move on.

dig it funny how the hawksish of hawks have, for the most part, never seen an inkling of war, yet those who have seen hardcore war-time are, for the most part, lined up against going to Iraq

"Sometimes the truth hurts. And sometimes it feels real good."

That's kinda how I feel when I GET FUCKED IN THEE ASS!!!!!!It's too bad we have to get use to it

Henry Rollings? Is that supposed to be Henry Rollins?

Don't do anything by half. If you love someone, love them with all your soul. When you go to work, work your ass off. When you hate someone, hate them until it hurts.

"The real leader has no need to lead - he is content to point the way."

"Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with the important matters."

I'm paraphrasing from memory here, but I think I've got it mostly right: "The skin on your soul is so thin you finally see you have a spine in there and its back is broken." And of course, the classic: "The best revenge is always to survive yourself."

Mairsy dotes and doesie dotes and little lambsy divey. Kids'll de divey too.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts".

I was named after Bertrand Russell.

"We take advice from many people, people who need people are the luckiest people in the world."

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent vice of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

"When dealing with a religious son of a bitch, ALWAYS get it in writing."

Amen to that brother!!!

I was named after Olivia de Havilland.

The problem with the gene pool is there's no lifeguard.

yes.

"Uncle Bill" beat me to it. i was gonna post this but never got around to it. until now.

"Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the streets after them".

"Is sloppiness in speech caused by ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care".

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible,will make violent revolution inevitable" John F. Kennedy

"We would never learn to be brave and patient if there were only joy in the world."

One is not born, one becomes a woman.

When a small man casts a long shadow, the sundown is near.

"I write of the great eternal truths that bind all men together the whole world over. We eat, we shit, we fuck, we kill, and we die."

No one believes the sincere except the honest.

"You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves."

"Here's the smell of blood still. And all the perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten this little hand!"

"“I'm the No. 1 target of the White House, They can't get Osama bin Laden. They're going to get me.”

"Truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but, in the end, there it is."

"Yes, we did produce a near perfect Republic. But will they keep it, or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the surest way to destruction."

"I've got a strong urge to fly, but I've got nowhere to fly to"

"In the interest of pursuing the best possible agenda for the future of our country, I will not seek to remain as majority leader of the United States Senate for the 108th Congress, effective Jan. 6, 2003. To all those who offered me their friendship, support and prayers, I will be eternally grateful. I will continue to serve the people of Mississippi in the United States Senate."

The goals for this country are peace in the world. And the goals for this country are a compassionate American for every single citizen. That compassion is found in the hearts and souls of the American citizens.

"Carry The Battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive, and don't ever apologize for anything."

fucking warmongering democrats.

"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it."

"War is delightful to those who have not experienced it."

"Peace in our time."

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in a final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed—those who aqre cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending its money alone—it is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

"Anyone who is willing to give up some liberty, for security, shall have neither liberty or security."

"What, me worry"

Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master.

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

"The function of socialism is to raise suffering to a higher level."

When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called "the People's Stick.

"It should be unnecessary to point out that massive terrorism is a standard device of powerful states.... Some cases are not even controversial. Take the US war against Nicaragua, leaving tens of thousands dead and the country in ruins. Nicaragua appealed to the world court, which condemned the US for international terrorism ("the unlawful use of force"), ordering it to desist and pay substantial reparations. The US responded to the court ruling by sharply escalating the war, and vetoing a security council resolution calling on all states to observe international law. The escalation included official orders to attack "soft targets" -- undefended civilian targets, like agricultural collectives and health clinics -- and to avoid the Nicaraguan army."

To the fervent proponents of ruthless corporate capitalism I say: make a millionaire CEO live as a poor sweatshop worker in Indonesia for one month and then ask him about the merits of the world economic system.

"The strongest bulwark of the capitalist system is the ignorance of its victims."

"If the Nuremberg laws were applied today, then every Post-War American president would have to be hanged."

For every dollar the boss has and didn't work for, one of us worked for a dollar and didn't get it.

The political arena leaves one no alternatives, one must be either a dunce or a rogue.

If we cannot by reason, by influence, by example, by strenuous effort, and by personal sacrifice, mend the bad places of civilization, we certainly cannot do it by force.

The PIONEER has before declared that our only safety depends upon the total extirmination [sic] of the Indians. Having wronged them for centuries we had better, in order to protect our civilization, follow it up by one more wrong and wipe these untamed and untamable creatures from the face of the earth.

American Indians share a history rich in diversity, integrity, culture, and tradition. It is also rich in tragedy, deceit, and genocide. As the world learns of these atrocities and cries out for justice for ALL people everywhere, no human being should ever have to fear for his or her life because of their political or religious beliefs. We are in this together, my friends, the rich, the poor, the red, white, black, brown, and yellow. We share responsibility for Mother Earth and those who live and breathe upon her. Never forget that.

"Capitalism is the only system that fully allows and encourages the virtues necessary for human life. It is the only system that safeguards the freedom of the independent mind and recognizes the sanctity of the individual."

The United States is like the guy at the party who gives cocaine to everybody, and still nobody likes him.

Americans are people who laugh at African witch doctors and spend 100 million dollars on fake reducing systems.

The trouble with America is that there are far too many wide open spaces surrounded by teeth.

Frustrate a Frenchman, he will drink himself to death; an Irishman, he will die of angry hypertension; a Dane, he will shoot himself; an American, he will get drunk, shoot you, then establish a million dollar aid program for your relatives. Then he will die of an ulcer.

Question: If you find so much that is unworthy of reverence in the United States, why do you live here? Mencken: Why do men go to zoos?

"We stand today at a crossroads: One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other leads to total extinction. Let us hope we have the wisdom to make the right choice."

Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed.

[The war in Iraq is] a rare opportunity to move toward an historic period of cooperation. Out of these troubled times...a NEW WORLD ORDER can emerge. ***** My vision of a 'new world order' foresees a United Nations with a revitalized peacekeeping function. ***** It is the SACRED principles enshrined in the UN Charter to which we will henceforth pledge our allegiance.

All governments are liars and murderers.

"Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed." that's how socialism works, isn't it. heil hitler.

"Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed." that's how socialism works, isn't it. heil hitler.

that's how everything works.

Yeah, you could substitute anything you didn't like for "socialist" and the sentence would still be correct. Example: Our task of creating a capitalist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed. or Our task of creating a white America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed. You could attribute that to any white guy from the 1800's and no one would blink an eye.

yeah, but socialism has a proven track record of evil dictators.

capitalism is creating one.

Capitalism has a proven track record of evil CEOs. Seems like half-dozen of one, six of the other.

You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend. - on going to war over religion

"Americans have different ways of saying things; they say "elevator", we say "lift"; they say "President", we say "stupid psychopathic git."

every era needs its bully Rome, Britain (western europe), China, Mongolia, Germany tried a couple of times, USA,

"I wish the first Bush Administration had finished the job in the Gulf War, which is a lesson about what we're doing now, is to make sure that we actually complete what we begin."

My country, right or wrong, is like saying, 'My mother, drunk or sober.'

"The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep's throat, for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as a liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as the destroyer of liberty."

"For among other evils caused by being disarmed, it renders you contemptible; which is one of those disgraceful things which a prince must guard against." Niccolò Machiavelli (1469–1527)

"Now I understood for the first time that all these problems are caused by a race asleep and thrashing about in its panicked nightmares. There will be wars and holocausts and genocides as long as God is portrayed and thought of as a tight-minded legislator, a feudal lord, an offended King, a hypersensitive Artisan – even if church managers condescendingly tack onto that ridiculous list the not-very-convincing footnote that He is also loving. As long as people dream that they are insecure and needy in some sort of eternal jeopardy, there will be atrocities. But as the human race grows up spiritually, and as individuals gain a personal experience of the God they have been worshipping in fear, they will recognize that much of their theology and philosophy is built on nightmares. That will be the day of peace. I suddenly found myself unwilling to sit it out in the mountains of Utah. I wanted to play an active role in the process of the world’s awakening."

It feels like all my family has died. -The Museum Deputy Director on the looting and destruction of the Iraqi National Museum.

Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness of the people; and not for profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government; and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it. John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

Sure doesn't sound like the American govenrment, does it?

"There are certain occasions where a butler may legitimately raise an eyebrow. Mr Beech thought for a moment and decided that this was one of them." -- P.G. Wodehouse

"and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." I would say it does.

Methinks it's different these days because it's not "the people" who are reforming government, it's "Bechtel".

"Government is instituted for profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men and they have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government; and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." sounds closer to the reality

that great it starts with an earthquake birds and snakes and aeroplane and Lenny Bruce is not afraid eye of a hurricane listen to yourself churn world serves it's own needs don't misserve your own needs speed it up a knotch speed grunt no strength the ladder starts to clatter wire in the fire represented seven gangs and a government for hire in a combat site Lester wasn't coming in a hurry with the furies breathing down your neck team by team reporters baffled trump tended crop look at that low plane fine then uh oh overflow population coming quick but it'll do save yourself, serve yourself, world serve it's own needs listen to your heart beat tell me with the rapture and the reverend in the right right bite right fight feeling pretty psyched its the end of the world as we know it its the end of the world as we know it its the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine six o'clock tv hour don't get caught in foreign tower slash and burn return listen to yourself churn lock him in uniform and book burning blood letting every motive escalate automotive incinerate light a candle light a votive uh oh this means no fear, cavalier renegade steer clear a tournament, a tournament, a tournament of lies offer me solutions, offer me alternatives and i decline its the end of the world as we know it its the end of the world as we know it its the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine the other night i tripped a nice continental drift to find mount St. Edelite Leonard Berntstein Leonid Brehznev Lenny Bruce and Lester Bangs birthday party cheescake jelly bean boom you symbiotic patriotic slam book neck right? right.

He's too straight and you can't wait Modern man I've only got time for a few, and not you Modern man I'll push you hard, I can't know you Modern man 'Cause then we'd have to be friends, and that just won't do Modern man, Modern man Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares It's for you that I sing to share what I feel Modern Man The things I need in this world Modern Man If you don't like it, you can leave me alone Modern man, Modern man 'Cause when I talk to you I want to hang up the phone Modern man, Modern man

Mr. Nabhal "Fucknuts" Amin can go lick his own ass. 1.) He neglected his duties to protect the contents in the first place. Everyone knew this war was coming; even after troops moved into the country, he had weeks to move the artifacts elsewhere or otherwise secure them. 2.) They're objects. No matter how historic or irreplacable, it's vulgar in the extreme to compare them to dead people, especially when all around him, the non-privileged really did lose members of their families. 3.) He's the asshole who fled Baghdad, only to return a week later after the looting, and was shown on TV berating a janitor as to why he didn't protect the collections. 4.) It turns out that many of the things weren't looted at all but taken away for safe keeping and are now being brought back by the ordinary people who did Fucknuts' job for him. 5.) Of what is missing, there is evidence that it was a professional inside job done under cover of "looting". The first place to look would be under Nabhal Amin's bed and in his bank account. 6.) It's the US's fault that we didn't stop Iraqis from looting Iraqi buildings? Fuck them and their camels.

1.) Yes, everyone knew the war was coming, including the US military and their advisors who repeatedly stressed the importance of protecting cultural heritage sites. 2.) Maybe it's vulgur, but they aren't just objects. That's like saying the people were just animals. For perspective, try imagining the Smithsonian trashed and National Archives in flames. Imagine Old Glory ripped apart by souvenir hunters. 3.) Yeah, he's an asshole for that. 4.)And you have any evidence for this? I believe they've recovered 20 some artifacts so far - out of about 200,000. 5.) Actually, the first place to look is in antiquity collectors' vaults and bank accounts. 6.) Yes, it's (partially) the US's fault. All it would have took is one tank in front of a hospital, one tank in front of the museum and one tank in front of the library. Surely they could have parked them there as well as anywhere else. And I'm not even going to point out what's stupid about the last half of you comment.

Corporations have reformed the country.

"They're objects" and the WTC was just a building I suppose?

"6.) Yes, it's (partially) the US's fault. All it would have took is one tank in front of a hospital, one tank in front of the museum and one tank in front of the library. Surely they could have parked them there as well as anywhere else" Sem, you are 100% correct about that. There was NO REASON why we could not protect important buildings and structures.

reportedly they were protected for bombing raids. sandbags around exhibts...breaksables moved underground and the like. im not sure the Iraqi's nor the Americans completely figured on the degree of piracy from the Iraqi populus.

Not to mention several American journalist that have been busted for looting.

Yes I think everyone was surprised, but some folks were more "Surprised" then they should have been, considered the warnings before hand.

"We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." President Clinton, 2-17-98 "The risk Iraqi leaders may use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us, or our allies, is the greatest security threat we face." Madeline Albright, 2-18-98 "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Advisor, 2-18-98 "... take necessary steps to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton from Sens. Levin, Daschle, Kerry and others, 10-9-98 "Saddam's engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology." Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., 12-16-98 "He's reinvigorated his weapons programs ... biological, chemical and nuclear programs ... he continues to redefine delivery systems to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush from Sen. Bob Graham, D-Fla., and others, 12-5-01 "Saddam is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He's ... building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., 9-12-02 "He's stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." Al Gore, 9-23-02 "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., 9-27-02 "Saddam retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons ... he is seeking nuclear weapons ..." Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.V., 10-3-02 "I'll be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force ... to disarm Saddam. ... I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., 10-9-02 "Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons." Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.V., 10-10-02 "Hussein's worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability and his nuclear program. He's given aid, comfort and sanctuary to terrorists, including al-Qaeda members." Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., 10-10-02 "... a brutal, murderous dictator ... an oppressive regime ... continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... the threat of Saddam with weapons of mass destruction is real." Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., 1-23-03

hey spunk.....did any of these people launch a unilateral, premature, pre-emptive war? no. so shut up. okay? you make no point.

yeah, so everyone was duped. good reason to let the inspectors continue, eh? france and germany and russia were right. heh.

patrick, just because they choose the usual do nothing course does not make it the right one. I make no point to those who are pointless.

Man this new Outkast album is insane. I can't even begin to get a handle on it. It's really deep musically. like Black Sheep meets Zappa or something. The single in no way prepares you for the rest of the album. I know this has nothing to do with what's being talked about but it's much more interesting than political bickering.

yes. it is. i dont even know what spunky is talking about. which cd do you like best sem? at first i was big on Andre's album, but I think I like Big Boi's better now, after listening to both of them for 2 weeks straight. He's got some beats and compositions that just blow me away.The way its constructed from song to song is also fucking notable.The transition from "War" to "Church" is just fantastic. Andre's is great, his lyrics crack me up.

you know, a cat who looses a play fight also acts disinterested.

"hey spunk.....did any of these people launch a unilateral, premature, pre-emptive war? " Ummmm, some of them voted yes on the war resolution in Oct '02............

I dunno, patrick, I have only listened to the whole thing twice. They are so different, it's hard to say. I will say there is a song on "The Love Below" that always gets me as the last song on the album, but it's not. I think it's "Pink and Blue" - that totally sounds like a closing song. I would have to say that Andre is obviously more overtly experimental, but I could tell there was a lot going on with Big Boi that I would need some more listens to comprehend. I'm cleansing the palatte with some Fantomas right now, but going back to Outkast after this. I think I will give Big Boi a listen first. I do get the personal impression that Andre's album is after party while Big Boi's is during the party, you know what I mean? After my cats kill a bug, they generally bat it about for a bit and then go find something more interesting to do.

i think it takes at least 10 listens apiece to truly form any opinions. talk to me in a weeks time. there's that much on those albums to absord.

i suppose if you cant find any weapons you can't link Al Qaeda to them... http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20031005/pl_afp/us_iraq_weapons_kay_031005210455

All I can say is, these guys are undoubtable more than capable of picking up the crown of KING OF FUNK once George gives it up.

i haven't really dug into speakerboxxx yet. i do like rooster. i'm burned out on rap, so maybe that's why i like the love below so much more. i've read more than a few reviews comparing it to prince. ahem. more like one nation under a groove.

thats the thing, i see way more groove & funk in Big Boi now, than I did when i first got it. The horn accompanymentswith speakerbox fucking rule. crocadille on my feet foxbury on my back bowtie around my neck thats while the call me the gangsta mack IN A CADILLAC!

that's WHY they call me the gangsta mack... grrrrrrrrr

I can't get the new Outkast due to my self-imposed ban on buying CDs and DVDs for October... Been listening to "hey ya" over and over to compensate... "Shake it like a polaroid picture"

have you seen the video? its fucking hilarious. the "Way you move" video also rules. seriously, i don't understand how all the other mainstream artists, with the exception of Missy Elliot (her videos blow me away too) and maybe Ludacris don't just pack the fuck up. They all look significantly more stupid with Outkast on the scene.

yes indeed. the 'talking through the song while much more talented female singer does the hook and sells your albums' thing is over.

im reminded of someone else in the genre (thats on the radio now) that is in fact redefining the genre and that is the roots. this one song with cody chestnut is something else. they make it seem so simple, so obvious. its like rap, soul and rock...the line is being blurred more and more at least on the rap side anyway. no like in a 311, fred durst kind of way. the continued use of traditional instrumentation is, to me anyway, a breath of fresh air. the soul and funk and impromptu ness of rap is still there, its just being presented in a better way, tto me anyway.

lookin cold rowlf, you don't have to buy it in october. you could aquire it in october and buy it in november.

holy shit, she has a really sexy pot belly. peruse brittany sites often n8?

no. but people know where my interests lie and keep my abreast of new developments. heh. abreast.