| THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016). |
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if all the logging companies put all their people into clear cutting forest they could not have done one sixth of the damage that improper custodianship of our forests has done. because we stopped fires for so long, that which was once regularly cleaned by fire has built up to horrendous proportion. underbrush, rotten or dead trees. now the fires burn so hot that everything dies. it will take hundreds of years to restore what we're losing daily. and out of portland you get qoutes like "it's been shown time and time again that logging and road building increases the fire risk". wipe the pepperspray out of your eyes, college boy. you've been duped. bush is actually on the right track. and liberals always get high and mighty about how stupid conservatives are. you silly fucks. |
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But yes, the fact of the matter is that fire supression has led a bad forest situation in general. However, clearcutting is not the solution. Selective logging is. |
the timber industry can go into a forest and pull scrub and dead trees. they make chipboard and pulp. the environmentalists cry about their ancient trees-- the only thing threatening the ancient groves is fire. |
The leaves and bark and small brush underneath the trees, that give fuel to the fire |
Studying and influencing public policy 32,386,400 THIRTY TWO MILLION DOLLARS. |
i don't know enough about forresting to add in on this, but i would say, given Bush's track record, his motion is suspect and should be looked at more closely before implimentation. I think there's some truth in both sides, but its not one or the other. |
Why is it a huge deal when a republican proposes even a single little tree gets cut down, the enviromental groups go ape shit. But Daschle quietly slips into a spending bill language exempting his home state of South Dakota from environmental regulations and lawsuits and no one says a damn thing???? Because it is a FAKE FRONT |
what are you talking about? first...i dont think its so clear cut trace. Its not simply a double edged sword, even though it looks like one. second, the matter here with Daschle (who is a creep) is within his state. the article really doesnt say much about the environmental group reaction with in ND. The article is clearly written by someone who wants to paint the picture you are painting, but who knows. Bush is getting reamed because he is speaking about national policy, not just the policy of 700 acres in one state. Bush got reamed for Alaksa because it involved thousands of acres of National Parks The Sierra Club admits to supporting the overall policy, just not agreeing with a provision within it. so thats why there isnt such a huge uproar over this. Daschle is going to do whats necessary to get re-elected. we expect that from all politicians. I can tell you though democrats arent necessarily any better than repubs on the environment. |
Where was the Sierra Club when Daschle pulled this? That is iron clad, you can clear cut SD (UH, there is a hell of a lot more then 700 acres of trees in SD) all you want, and no one can do a damn thing about it. Because of language inserted in a SPENDING BILL. Dirty, sneaky, untouchable. Not a peep from anyone. Bush goes to the public and says what he wants to do. And it makes sense what he wants to do. But, you said yourself "given Bush's track record, his motion is suspect". Why? Because he is open about it? Look, the kids out there with signs and in the heat do care. The organizers do not. It should not matter if it was daschle or bush. If your agenda is honestly the environment you would have said something regardless of whom it was that you felt was threatening it. It does demonstrate that Sierra Club's & Green Peace's motives are suspect, not necessarily Bush's or even Daschles. After all, what would a logging company do if they cut all the trees so there were no more logs? That's the magic of capitalism |
The article implied that this matter was intended for Black Hills, 700 acres to be thinned, not clear cut. I know theres more than 700 acres in SD. Bush is suspect because he has shown in the past to favor business interests above all else. Thats why its suspect. Wheres the business interest behind this? His motives are suspect. It makes sense in theory what he wants to do, who knows if it makes sense in practice. I think what you perceive as lack of action against democrats who fuck up regarding the environment is not necessarily unfounded. But let me draw a parallel... Look at how we are favoring Musharaff and Pakistan. Would we be giving them such favoritism and turning such an eye when Musharaff is seizing power left and right if they were not cooperating with U.S.'s war on terror. Nooooo. So, sometimes you gotta go with your best odds. Sometimes you have to turn a blind eye, because democrats do push green policies with a little more effort than republicans. Greens have to patronize one party or the other. They cant get legislation passed if they are in spats with both parties now can they? |
The article was trying to give a reason why daschle would have done it. It should not matter who was doing it. It also set a very dangerous presidence. It showed what could be done to get around all the bs SOrry, I know my spelling is off... |
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rough. anal. sex. i can hear the sound of violins. |
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INT. SORABJI BAR AND GRILL -NIGHT The bar is empty save for a small crowd huddled into a circular booth in one corner, the bartender and MARK THOMAS sitting apart at a piano. A lilting tinkle of a melody twists gaily through the dim and smoky air. SPUNKY, southern hunka whiteboy turned father, stands in front of the booth, facing NATE and PATRICK, who sit staring into near-empty glasses. PLATYPUS has passed out curled up on the couch of the booth. SPUNKY The sky is as blue as the ocean, but they don't mention that blueness, do they? they only mention it when it is the ocean being blue. PATRICK everyone knows the sky is why the ocean is blue. SPUNKY (voice raising) the funny thing is, only the ocean is ever blue to them. NATE no one cares, dude. SPUNKY because it is not the ocean. ----CUT TO: EXT. SORABJI BAR AND GRILL PARKING LOT -NIGHT MARK THOMAS digs in his pocket for his car keys. The parking lot is empty, but he doesn't seem to notice. GOD descends in a chariot with wheels of fire. MARK THOMAS where are those goddamn ke... GOD MARK! MARK THOMAS oh, hey God. what's up? GOD oh, you know. looking into things. you remember that hooker? MARK THOMAS the one with creamy teeth? GOD (laughs) yeah, fuck. tell me that one again. MARK THOMAS buy me a beer? GOD what the hell! climb on board. The chariot raises into the air, assuming Mark Thomas into the heavenly host, where only the best beer is served. ---CUT TO: INT. SORABJI BAR AND GRILL -NIGHT SPUNKY is as we left him. PLATYPUS is still passed out. NATE and PATRICK have half full drinks and there are several new bottles of beer in front of each of them. SPUNKY so, no one says a word when the sky is blue. PATRICK (to Nate) I have a claw hammer in the trunk of my car. NATE (to Patrick) I'll distract him, you run out, grab the hammer, come back and hit me as hard as you can in the forehead. PATRICK (to Nate) No... you hit me first. NATE (to Patrick) won't work. me first. use the claw side. |
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one of you blathering dorks in the head with a claw hammer. repeatedly. wake me up when the blood spills. |
i want my ten minutes back. |
god was my second thought. |
i love trees. it doesn't matter who's cutting them down, if they don't explain exactly what they're doing and why about those trees i am going i fight tooth and nail.... selective logging can be a good thing, when it's done properly. the problem is that there are very few solutions to evironmental damages that even the most careful logging can cause. erosion from logging roads, limb damage from helicopter winds. one thing about clearing the underbrush is that it isn't partciularly profitable.the wodd isn't the same quality nor as strong as a standard doug fir. and snags? snags are required for the habitat of many threatened species in the woods. selective logging is great-- as long as somebody who understands the delicate nature of the environment, rather than the power of greenbacks, keeps an eye on what's going on. |
Goddam you all. |
Is your house made of steel or is it stone? Any furniture made with wood? or particle board? |
the fires that have resulted from the 'hands off' approach have been far worse. the environmental movement uses fear instead of real science. it's a sham. and they can use underbrush. underbrush is harvested and made into chipboard and pulp. and as spunky kind of indicates, we need wood products. the more our economy falls apart, the less conservation is possible. it is important to find the balance. |
The spunkster is right. Logging is not going to go away. All of us use tree products. Personally, I'm all for selective logging. It's good for the forest, it's good for the economy, etc etc. However, I don't think that's what GW is planning. I have a suspicion that he's thinking of something more along the lines of this. (Forgive all the hippy overtones, I was in a hurry). |
my bedframe is also wood, that which would have been thrown away by one of my coworkers had i not offered to take it. but what i really mean is that people need to be informed consumers, demand to know where products are coming from and at what cost. and cost is more than money. |
YOU FILTHY FILTHY CONSUMERIST PIG!!!!!!!!! DO YOU HEAR THE TREE CRYING IN YOUR SLEEP!!!! |
it's better to reuse the stuff than throw it away and make a new one. and i'm not a consumer unless i buy something, which i did not. |
it fit PERFECTLY with that little scene up there. What also helps forests are controlled burns (which yes, sometimes get out of hand). For example, many conifers don't release seeds unless the cones are heated, as from a fire. Sequoias, for instance, do this, and also are not as flammable as other pines, as they have water instead of turpines (sp?) in their xylem. Of course, a lot of managed forest is sterile forest, especially in the north. no undergrowth, no habitat. it's good for deer but not much else. so, it's a difficult issue. Me, I favor selective cutting, but avoiding the old growth. concentrate on secondary and tertiary growth trees. set controlled burns to thin out the underbrush from time to time. It's what the natives did, after all. |
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it's tangental, anyway. the important point is that whatever fire ecology exists has been thrown way out of whack because of the unnatural build up of fuels in our forests. fires burn so hot that they effectively clearcut. which is a sad waste perpetuated by so called environmentalists. |
environmentalists had any hand in stopping controlled burns in those areas. I took part in a controlled burn once (tremendous fun). Only a couple standing trees bit it, and they were half-dead anyway. but the living trees came through pretty much unscathed. |
I was maybe 10 or 11. We were out there with snow shovels and flat shovels and blankets when it started going past our fence. That was the only time I saw my dad do something that did not go exactly as he thought. |
I just sang that in the shower over and over and over. My but it's fun at the Cat household today. |
Just in case you were wondering. |
Are you alright? Have you taken something you shouldn't have? Did somebody slip something into your morning coffee? Or, are you just having a weird day? |