I was here and typed "http://hidden.sorabji.com/hiddensorabji/," but then somebody came by and I had to hide it. No, nothing is there, I checked. Something oughta be there, tho. Last night (not a sorabji dream) I was in this big uphill foot race on this dirt track that was so steep & loosely packed that they put duct tape on it for traction. I grabbed the tape and started holding onto it and climbing instead of trying to walk/run up the incline. The tape pulled away from the cliff and I ended up at the bottom of the hill, watching the other guy (this short, nonathletic kid from my high school) beat me.

uh, you're in highschool?

DUDE!!! All of a sudden... My whole perspective of what everyone on Sorabji looks like, and how old they are just went right out the door... I mean I know a few very well, so they are still the same... But jesus tired, I had you put into the mid 20's group drinking coffee in loose clothing, and maybe smoking once in a while... Fucking hell, now I have to start all over again.

and hal is obviously a big tittie blonde with long legs.

I'm actually a short, slightly chubby white male with a receding hairline and a warped sense of humor.

i'm a fucking moron.

no no no had I been in high school, I would have said "this kid from school" then again, maybe "this kid from my old high school" would have been better. My clothes aren't loose enough to get me on the cover of any DJ magazines. Coffee is fun.

nate has some obvious issues with high school students. i think we'd all be suprised to know who here was truly the age the claim to be. i'm too bad at lying to pull it off, but others are brilliant, i think.

i'm 26. my real name is nate.

i'm 27, my real name is not mavis, but even my mom calls me mavis now.

i'm 25, my real name is patrick there has been an influx of teens lately, and it can be weird talking about sex and drugs around teens, it could potentially be illegal, if construed in the wrong context, especially with mom lurking right behind said teen....i speculate thats the extent of nate's issue with teens

that and i sell kiddie porn for the CIA.

My real name is not Czarina,and I handle the southern franchise of Nates porno operation.

37, male, true name is Douglas. Crap, am I the oldest one here?

naw, swine is in his late 50's. his real name is Montgomery, though he'll deny it.

damn. i could've sworn that 9/7 12:16 post said: "i'm 27. my real name is hot mavis." HOT MAVIS. serving up hot mavis on a stick. deep fried hot mavis in chimichanga sauce w/ chitlins on the side. funky hot mavis in the back of the fridge next to the three-week old milk and jurassic mystery meatloaf. hot mavis, straight up. no chaser. you should go down to the courthouse and get your name changed.

pfffft. lies. i'm in my early 60's and my real name is "archibald". and don't fucking emphasize the first syllable. the pronunciation is strictly porcine.

you were in your late 50's. monte.

simmer down, boys!

viva la viagra!

I'm 16 and perky. I'm here to find a date to my prom. (fuck if I'm going to lie, might as well do a good job of it)

Mavis IS hot

cut that shit out, man. you're scaring the natives.

didn't we all agree that all sorabjiites are hot as hell and leave it at that? like it matters, anyway.

i look like Hulk Hogan and have the photos to prove it.

ooh, mama!

I look like a monkey and smell like one, too.

you look like a peach and smell like a boy....

i am 32. my name is kelsey.

you're all on crack.

I'm a crack counselor and an old hippie, 49 and damn...er, what? o yes, damn proud of it. Whatever it is. And I am the man in the baggy pants next to Wadi Voss, Minister of Justice, your mother's worst nightmare.

hi. my name is lauren, and i'm and alcoholic. just kidding. although i am 18. i never lied about anything. i'm just here to make nate feel nervous. i sell shoes. half the time i'm in the stockroom, pushing around hundreds of pounds of shoes with my elbows and butt. and running away from cliffie dearest.

*Gets out holy water, starts flinging all over the room, puts on his purple sash, grabs a crucifix, and begins maniacally screaming* The Power of Christ compels you! The Power of Christ compels you! The Power of Christ compels you! The Power of Christ compels you! God, the flys are thick in here.

And somebody needs to grab a mop and clean up all of this split pea green puke that is all over the floor!

pez, you're failing in your life mission.

I'm 18, my real name is not Hal... Its Shaw... I know, I know, I've heard them all just shut the hell up... I deliver steak and potato's for a living...

My real name is Trace, I am 27. I think everyone knows the rest of the story

shit Trace. i thought you were in your mid 30's.

not yet, why did you think that????

trace, are you really? i thought you were mid 30's too.....

Why??????

because you look old and have kids.

i don't know....how old do i look in my photos? i'm not being offensive, it was a random guess.

I am not offended, just surprised. Mavis, you look like you are in your ealy 20's. My wife had my oldest (6) when she was 19. My mom had me when she was 19. I think that it has just become a way of thinking for our generation or the one after us to wait until they are 30-40 before getting married. I guess that is just the natural progession of things, two hundred years ago kids were getting married and having kids at 12-14 years old.....

...at about the same rate as they are today. Most people didn't get married until their 20s in 1800.

and what is my life mission, nate? i always thought it was to annoy you! only ten days 'till i'm supposed to buy my books!

you don't annoy me. that's what i'm saying. i want to know where pictures of mavis are.

nate, they are on my hd right here. what's yr email?

nate@sorabji.com

okay i just sent them....

i'll show you mine if you show me yours.

okay....

you've seen mine, YOINK!!

I want to see too, so I recognize you if I see you around nxnw in two weeks.

I've seen Mavis,,,she's a bottler! Of all the Sorabjites I've seen pics of, I'm never really surprised. Everyone has looked pretty much the way I perceived them. It's always so fulfilling when your expectations are met.

bottler?

you should cyst's pics......... it's been a while cyst, drop a link eh?

you should cyst's pics......... it's been a while cyst, drop a link eh?

I'll be sure to point mavis that way if she sends me a photo. I'm kind of out of that self-portrait phase now. I grew up, cut my hair, got a job, moved to a bigger city, found a steady guy--nowadays I go to dinner parties and talk about stock options. but I think when my friend gets back from italy we're going to start a band.

Bottler is good...all good. It translates roughly to excellent or lovely, depending on the context.

cyst, i sent it ten minutes ago.....

Mavis and Sem and anyone else who's lurking...get into Yahoo Chat. I'll be catsorabji. Don't bother wearing anything pretty.

swine, post that link again to the picture of you and kelsey's sister. that's one yummy photo. mavis, i want to see your photos. syrup@sorabji.com i think that email still works.

i dropped by cat, no where to be found

Sorry Patrick...Yahoo was sucking big time and Sem got caught in the whirlpool. I'm there now.

Shit... I don't have anyone's pictures... Here's my email, send some my way of who you are and I'll send some your direction in just due. Hal2@mindless.com

what!!!! i don't annoy nate???? i need a scanner. so i can do more with what i do have. making a zine would be a lot easier. and cheaper.

I had a dream last night that i was at a special performance by Madonna's daughter. she was about twelve maybe and had just put out her first album. probably on moms label. anyway her songs were pretty good and afterwards i was hanging out with some people having some drinks (obviously a dream) and Madonna came over and wanted to meet me. she said she liked to "hear her new kittens purr" whatever the fuck that means. so i went upstairs with her and her ass was looking sort of dropped out but i was like fuck it she's Madonna. As we walked along this upstairs hallway there was some guy laying on the floor all ate up on X. I asked if he was all right and his baggy panted girlfriend said yeah. I helped him get on a comfortable couch near by and then got back to Madonna and her droopy ass.

MADONNA SUX ME ALL THE TIME! SHE PAYS ME!

Let us take a moment to ponder the FUCKING BRILLIANCE of "Suck My Dick's" words.....

...then pester his IP to sit on him.

http://syrup.org/hulk.jpg told you so.

btw, i only look like that when i flex. when i'm just standing around i look totally, um, normal.

Awesome Sarah. You really got it going on.

Last night's dream: I was in art history class, and the prof handed back a test. Turns out I wasn't there for the test, but she found one of my blue books. The first few pages were empty, but she gave me full credit for them (50/50, 25/25, etc.). On the last few pages were two things I had apparently scrawled down: one was the name of a textfile (jackandjill might have been in the name, possibly a subconscious reference to the linked toon) and the other was a short but clever proof of something. I think it involved points on the unit circle in exponential form, and the cleverness was even beyond the sqrt(2)^(sqrt(2)) proof. I remember thinking that the proof was somebody else's and I had only copied it onto the page. The prof wrote a note that she was really impressed by both things and decided to give me an A, even though I hadn't actually done the test.

wicked pic Sarah.

Sarah... Your a goddess...I mean look at those biceps, I must admit, I thought you were playing around but alas I was wrong... No one screw with Sarah she's buff...

Holy shit, Sarah, you're ripped.

you've got more muscle in your biceps than i've got in my butt...er, nevermind. do you work out?

yes. thanks you guys. now to continue the unabashed narcissism. this is entitled "Evolution", and i'd like to dedicate it to Michael. [see WAYD Aug-Nov 99] you ready for this shit? it may or may not flip you out. i'm sure most of you have seen stuff way more bizarre than this, but still i feel like i owe you all a warning of some sort... to me, it's almost a completely disassociative experience. anyway. here goes. in a loose chronological order, with a year or two missing: http://syrup.org/humongous.jpg http://syrup.org/feb97.jpg http://syrup.org/window.jpg http://syrup.org/nov99.jpg http://syrup.org/december26_99.jpg http://syrup.org/march2000.jpg http://syrup.org/april2000.jpg http://syrup.org/may2000.jpg http://syrup.org/june2000.jpg http://syrup.org/sept2000.jpg

i tried to find the post that jimbabe created last february under "What have you done?" entitled "Gone on a real diet!" or something like that, but it doesn't exist anymore. if i remember correctly, discovery of the power of the protein gig was inadvertently chronologized somewhere in there. RC was onto it long before i was. in case anyone wonders or cares at all, i lost approximately 115 lbs of total body weight since April 1999. right now my lean body mass is 120 lbs. that means if i had 0% body fat, i would still weigh on the scale at 120 lbs. i'm 5'3". think about that for a minute, if you will. right now i'm around 145 at 18% body fat. i'll probably have to cut down my training if... not if, actually, when. when i hit 140 at 15%. i don't see a need to be any leaner than that. oh yeah, and i baked creamcheese thumbprint cookies tonight, with apricot filling and powdered sugar glaze. Pez: i do aerobic training 5 days a week. 3 of those 5 days i include moderate resistance training. i got those biceps by curling 8-10 pound freeweights. for a year. anyway, sundays are my favorite. i take my time. tomorrow morning i'll get up at 8 a.m. for a big protein and fresh fruit breakfast, then i'll lift from 9-10, doing about 5 different exercises focusing on either upper or lower body muscles. right now i'm working exclusively on my back. after lifting i'll do 30 second sprint intervals for 20 minutes, because i want to develop my fast-twitch muscles. at this point i've pretty much peaked in terms of cardio endurance. i'm not saying i could run a full marathon without training for it, but i could run, say, for two hours at about 5.5 - 6 miles an hour and never get winded. not only that, but i'm into being healthy, not stupid, which is why marathon and iron-man type athletic activities do not appeal to me anyway. i mean, that kind of crazyness is fine for some athletes, but not for me. i should probably stop writing about all of this here and save it for the book. it's time for bed. i'm sleepy. ever since surgery i have to rest all the time. it sucks.

that wasn't freaky at all. i thought you looked kinda cute in the first picture. you look pretty bad-assed in the last. wanna wrestle?

i thought you once said you eat little girls like me for brunch. that sounds like more fun. at sorabjifest we should have a pro wrestling matching, complete with costumes. mark will be the ringmaster. cyst will be the girl who carries the round cards around in the ring. agatha will be the referee (duh). my costume will be a thin sheath of glitter. and i'll take on you and Dave and Big Kevin and Antigone.

Congratulations Sarah...the story is in the pics...you should encourage all of us to concentrate on getting healthy and making the most of the body we're given. Not fitting into a certain size or looking a certain way, but getting as healthy as possible. And I thought working up a sweat meant turning up the hot tub. Really an accomplishment and an inspiration, kiddo.

Why am I always so late to the party? Great pics, sarah! new ones of me up... http://pic4.instadeth.org http://pic5.instadeth.org http://pic6.instadeth.org http://pic7.instadeth.org and see my awful photography skills in nyc with my friend kathy...at the moma and the dominican republic parade and penn station and such. http://nyctrip1.instadeth.org more to come...you'll see. Send all pictures to me, damnit! zephyr@instadeth.org and how did you all get sorabji.com email addresses?

erg. can't. no scanner, no digital camera, as i've said before. i'll have to fix that sometime...but later. after i buy my books. like the hair, zephyr.

many thanks...I do too. actually, everyone but the parents do. Especially women. and girls.

that reminds me...i just remembered a dream from a while ago. i was going about my life, minding my own business, when a scorpion began to follow me. not just any scorpion, it was a jumping scorpion with a death wish. as in if it got near me, it would jump on me and try to sting me. i'd do the traditional S&S (scream and shake) and run away. for days afterward i was afraid of little tiny creepy-crawlies. yum. glad there's no scorpions in westen oregon...

WOWSER! Right fucking on, Sarah. You are now my short duration personal saviour, and I think I will get set to start up my work out program again week after next (I always like to start on a Monday, and i won't be ready this monday - need to plan more). Did you keep a progress log of all your workouts? How do you measure body fat? I used calipers, and the last time I used them (before I quit working out for the field season), I was at... uh, hold on let me check.

Sarah, can I be you when I grow up?

Ok, my last stats, at about May 1st, this year. 158 lbs. 13.0% bodyfat (this is where I am having doubts) 40" chest, 14" biceps, 33.5" waist, 22" thighs. See, i don't realy truct the bodyfat %, unless I am not understanding it somehow. That's a good %, but I still had about an extra 1 1/2" of flab around the waist. And no way did I even have as good definition as Sarah. However, having doen this program before, I know more about what I was doing wrong, so I think I can reach my golas this time (get rid of the paunch, increase muscle tone). I really enjoy how great you feel when you look in the mirror and see progress. Nothing has given me more self confidence than that. Mavis and I had a conversation about this a few days ago.She disagrees with me that I need to lose any fat, and thinks I'm crazy for saying I have any flab around my belly. Well, Trust me, I do. Not a whole lot, but it's the one thing I've never been able to get rid of. I've been able to drop my bodyfat, grow muscle and build endurance, but this sucker will not disappear. One other thing that worries me is all the people that I see, everyday, who have just let themselves go. I see it as a sign of complacency, that they've given up on life. Or haven't really thought about the future. I think about quality of life hard, especially for when I am older. I want to be able to go hiking when I am 60, 70, even 80 if I am real lucky. And to do that, you got to start taking care of yourself now and keep it up. I hear a lot about the "accept me as I am" movement from people who have medical problems with obesity. I think that's ok, but how many are using that as an excuse not to change their lifestyle and improve their life? There's so many problems that come with being overweight (just being 30 lbs over puts you at high risk for adult-onset diabetes, for example). I understand too well the "oh, this isn't working, and I don't have time" excuse - I use it much too often myself. But it's time, once and for all, to change my habits and get into the best shape of my life. I'll keep you posted, maybe even scan in pix at work if no one is around... Thanks for the inspiration Sarah and keep it up!

Isolde, whatever you do, DON'T grow up. and certainly don't grow up to be me. Semi, i'm off to the gym. i would love to talk to you more or write more about this, if you want. i'm totally passionate about it. i'll be back this afternoon. you would actually be doing me a favor by asking me questions - so that i can start to understand how to relay this information in a practical way. i do keep a log. my trainer took me to do the water displacement test for body comp analysis. i'm actually 118 lbs lean body mass right now, but i like to round up :) heh. did i tell you i'm taking the ACE test on november 4th to get certified as a personal trainer?

Whatever. You rock. You have stamina and perserverance and you went out and got something you wanted. I admire that. Your dedication is really something to look up to.

that's amazing sarah. the pics say it all. sem's only 158 pounds? shit, i was 158 in the eighth and ninth grade. that was my weight group on the wrestling squad. that was 120 pounds ago. since cleo was born, i've grown at about 1½ times the rate she has. i had a dream last night that i went to get a new disc for the angle grinder.

Well, the body fat test was the big one - how much did it cost you? I am going to the doctor's on Monday for an unrelated minor medical problem, I'll ask him too. I really don't trust the bodyfat calipers, especially since I don't have another test that I know is good to compare it to. My personal favorite program is the Body-for-LIFE thing. I've tried a lot of different ones before that one, and all my best results have been on that one. It's different for everyone, but I like this one. It fits my lifestyle well. Uh, questions...any advice for someone with back problems (not me) who would like to get into shape?

If any of you want a picture of my sorry ass, you'll have to email me one, because I'm too damn lazy to get myself a homepage with pics on it so, if you ask ye' shall recive... And Sarah, I think I'll slip into the role of commentator for Sorabjifest this year... I guess my smart ass attitude and cynicism should make for some interesting commentary...

damn. this thread has got me all tuckered out. you also have a pretty smile, sarah.

Just the smile? haha! Sarah's very pretty.

don't underestimate my feelings about a good smile.

Try to realize, sem, that the "obese people are weak willed" argument is, more often than not, complete bullshit. I'll use myself as an example. Between when I was 23 and 26 I exercized around 10 and 13 hours a week: Aikido practice, constant tumbling, throwing, stretching. In that same time period I gained 40lb, mostly fat. The thing is, I wasn't really eating fatty foods. I eventually had to stop the practice becasue my knees and back could take a 210lb me flopping around, but not a 250lb me. After stopping the intense exercize I tried several methods for losing weight, both in diet and exercize, with little success, and at my highest I weighed 287lb. I'm now down to 260lb (and was even as low as 253 a couple of weeks ago) because I finally found a regimen that I can stick to that works as well. Sticking to this regimen is not a matter of will power, however. It comes from years of trying, and sometimes GIVING UP COMPLETELY. In fact, I could never stick with it unless I allowed myself the luxury of occasionally giving up. And I can give up precisely because I can accept myself as I am. And because I can give up, I can keep going. I'm not sure if this makes any sense, but maybe I can explain. I grew up fat. From my earliest memories until puberty (when I was growing so fast the fat couldn't keep up) I was overweight, and constantly reminded of that fact by everyone around me. So I've had alot of shame pushed into me about my weight. But, paradoxically (and possibly because of it) I'm completely unmotivated by shame. I also used to associate any observation about mine or another's weight as a criticism of me personally, a comment meant to induce shame. The same went for my own self observations. The only way to shed this reaction was to shed my innate shame of being overweight. I had to accept myself for who I was. Only then could I break out of the viscious circle of hating the way I was and yet being completely unmotivated to change because of that self hate. I had to reach a point of stillness. I had to stop striving. Then I could start from a point of stillness, a point of balance. Being at that point allowed me to find the right way for me to lose weight without hurting myself. So, in the last four months I've lost 20lb. Also, I've recently gained back a few pounds, but I'm back on track and eating right again. The important thing is that backsliding didn't cause me any anxiety, and starting back on the right path also isn't causing any anxiety. I don't need to lose weight. I just want to. That's the benefit I see in the "accept yourself as you are" movement. It should be obvious by now that the old methods of motivating people to lose weight simply are not working. The dynamics are much more complicated than, "people are just letting themselves go."

Sarah is my hero. This morning I really didnt want to go to the gym (4th session - arms today), but I did it. Now I'm glad I did. I figure paying a personal trainer is way cheaper than Jenny Craig. heh. Actually I know it is. And the personal trainer is way cuter than the horrible old bat.

What Antigone failed to mention is that he's 6'4" and really built. So 260 pounds looks great on him, whether he thinks it or not. I reckon it all comes down to your bone structure (which takes into account your genes). I'm 5'6" and 120 pounds, but my shoulders/hips are very narrow and I can't carry much more weight successfully. A girlfriend of mine is the same height and 50 pounds heavier and she looks beautiful and more importantly, feels great. There is a certain element to the argument that a positive body image is essential. A lot of people just give up and let themselves balloon because they're never going to be a size 6. But if they put a little bit of work into it, they could probably be a healthy happy size 12-14. Unfortunately some people use the "accept yourself as you are" philosophy as an endorsement that it's OK to sit around on the sofa all day eating cheeseburgers. It's all very well to say use the love-yourself-at-any-weight crap, but the bottom line is that obesity is one of the biggest killers in the Western World. I believe you have to maintain some level of weight control through diet and exercise to be healthy. That doesn't mean being a goddess like Sarah, but it doesn't mean sitting around and moaning about your bad genes while diving into yet another carton of icecream.

Thanks for the compliment, Cat, but I've got to take issue with calling it "love-yourself-at-any-weight crap." That just injects the shame back in! The western world has been on the diet/exercize craze for, what now, 20 years? And we've just gotten fatter! There must be something essential missing, and don't tell me that it's will power of determination. That's the pat answer that requires no thought. Yes, there is the danger that people could take the "accept yourself" attitude too far, and in a way I think they should...for a while. The mental well being you get from letting go of your anxiety is a necessary first step. The essence of it is that a mind gripped with fear, anxiety, and anger is clouded. A mind gripped with bliss from total "acceptance" is also clouded. Hopefully in traveling the space in between people can find that point of clarity and stay there for as long as it takes. Hell, they should stay there for the rest of their lives! But they will never get there if they stay perpetually in fear.

I think we strayed from the subject... I thought the point was made that weight doesn't matter so much as keeping healthy. Not that I have any room to talk. I just finished off a pint of B&J's Peanut Butter Cup and sat on my ass all day.

I feel the same way. I've never cared what I've eaten, and maybe I do stray a little to the plump side, but I'm relatively happy with myself. I'm 5' and I weigh 120 pounds. I feel (and am) as healthy as I can be, given various problems which don't go away. My weight was never a serious issue with me--I never hit that peak "I'm so ugly, no one loves me, etc." stage, for which I am thankful. I like myself.

wow. thanks, you guys, that's so sweet of you all. i don't really know what to say, except thanks. it's super flattering, i'll try not to let it go to my head :) but thanks moreso for being supportive, that's way cool. well, there's so much i could write. but i just finished a big dinner and 3 homemade oatmeal chocolate chunk cookies for dessert = food coma. semi, you probably already know that essentially you can't build muscle mass *and* lose body fat at the same time. but if you want to lose 5-10 pounds, forget a rigorous program - someone your size doesn't need it. if you were to hire me as your personal trainer, i would say focus 65% of your energies on your diet and 35% on your workouts. people, it's real simple. it's factual and totally biological. if you want to lose body fat, you have to be carbohydrate deficient. human physiological fact: when your body runs out of carbs to burn, it is forced to turn to stored body fat for energy. if you're keeping your carbs low to begin with, you force your body to burn STORED BODY FAT sooner and more efficiently. this is how weight is lost. how do you cut down carbs without starving or feeling hungry? eat protein. lots of it. stick to veggies and fresh fruit. semi, if you keep your carb count down to 100 grams a day for four weeks and doing 35-40 minute cardio workouts 3-5 days a week (but no more than 40 minutes!!), i guarantee that "tire" will disappear. just make sure you're eating about 27-37 grams of protein per meal. for someone your size, i wouldn't recommend eating fewer than 1800 calories a day, but way more than that if you're exercising. how do you get the "will power" to keep your carb count down when you (naturally) start to crave sugary foods or starchy foods? BE PREPARED! spend most of your energies on food. make food a priority. think ahead, cook ahead, plan ahead. bring food with you everywhere. you're going to get cravings, so instead of snacking on a carb snack, even a "healthy" carb snack like oatmeal or whatever, eat a huge hunk of protein. bbq chicken, fish... eat 5 cans of tuna if you have to. eat and eat and eat until you are full and you can't even think about food or a craving. do whatever is necessary to avoid eating more than 100 grams of carbs a day, even if this means "over-eating" protein. drink lots of water. you will anyway, you will be *really* thirsty, because your body will need to flush out whatever extra protein it can't absorb. if you really feel like you *must* do weight training, go for it. it will only help your body turn to stored fat for energy and not eat away at its own muscle fiber. but for 10 pounds... and frankly i can't imagine why you'd want to be as little as 148-150... but low carbs combined with just cardio will do it. just try it. don't plan it, don't think too hard about it, don't do timelines and logs and all that for 10 pounds. just get up in the morning, go to the grocery store, spend the extra money and buy like 10 pre-roasted ready to eat chickens, deli meats, cottage cheese, tuna fish, canned meats of whatever kind, and just grind that shit. take the time to make salads. use oil-based "fatty" dressings, not low-fat dressing, which always contain extra sugars so that they taste good. if anything else, spend an hour a day preparing food, so that when hunger strikes, you're ready. never, ever, ever, ever get too hungry. and never be on a "diet" because it just doesn't work. eat more to lose weight. toss out every idea about low-fat diets, because it's a load of shit. eat fat. if you don't, your body will do everything it can to hang on to the fat it has stored, *especially* if you're exercising. if you're exercising and not eating fat, you're going to burn up your own muscle tissue. dumb dumb dumb. advice to anyone else who wants to lose pounds: forget everything you've ever learned about human nutrition and go back to the four basic food groups. the pyramid is a load of crap. and fats are not only good for you (if you're keeping your carbs under control), they are necessary to facilitate not only good health, but weight loss. i am proof of this. i eat more fats in my diet now than i ever did when i weighed 100 lbs more. nuts, cheeses, oils, butter, avacados, you name it. mmm mmm mmmmmmmm. i could write volumes more about this, about proper weight training and how i got my muscles so defined (there's a science to that as well...), and i'm definitely going to address everything that Antigone wrote because that's the most important thing of all... but i have to go deliver these cookies. you guys rock. thanks again. mmmwah!

you know, that all makes sense. i worry about my weight sometimes. not because i look bad or anything, but i went to an orthepedic surgeon about a year and a half ago because i couldn't run without my feet hurting. he told me that he could correct the problem by fusing some bones together, but i'd be in constant pain. he told me not to run too much and to never be a waitress. that was the year i wanted to join the track team. i loved to run so much, just running, with the wind in my hair and leaving everyone else behind. didn't have to talk or think, just run. i felt like i could lift off and fly away. damn that doctor.

Wow!! Sarah,wow!!!!Way to go!!I am thinking of getting a Bowflex,anyone know anybody who has one,if so do they like it?It looks so easy,but they are not cheap.

irnoically all this health talk/weight talk inclines me impose a negative self image......beer gut......HA!!!! not really, but i've come a long way in 5 years...from 145 6'3" to 175 6'3".....sittin on my ass all day hasn't helped. sometimes when we screw, my tummy makes that funny fart noise....am i fat? anyway, i had a dream i was at a bachelor party, this house with windows....one whole wall made of windows and sliding glass doors...jack daniels and becks were in ample supply, i'm still trying to figure out the significance of these two brands, but alas.....the 4 strippers showed up, in fact they were porn stars, whom i had met at this convention i attended earlier. The dialog with the girl was muttled, obscured, by what i couldnt tell you. we proceeded to walk around the pool, one porn chic kept telling me (voices were no longer obscured) "i'm just a normal girl, my girlfriend and I don't do this often, we are such normal girls, we even thought about leaving when we got here because you guys are all so young..." "young" i say "these guys are a bunch of pussy cats, I'm married, so i'll be in the back sippin my whisky....." "you're married? thats SOOO cool. Whats your sign?" I reply "uhhhh, scorpio" she "oh me too, did you have a bachelor party when you got married?" "naw, we didn't really want that, the thought of some hariy 'sexy' male strip o gram tea baggin my wife on the forehead just didn't seem appealing, and like wise for me.....most strippers are not my type" without realizing the inherent subtle insult i just laid on her she replied.. "thats so cool, thats what I'm going to do when I get married, you know I don't this very often, were just normal girls.." "yes honey, I know....have fun, see ya " "in a few we'll be stripping for ya....be happy!" "I am already thank you" the dream continues..... angryam is in the picture and next thing i know were are in the bathroom, he is taking a leak, I say, "do you feel like a girl, I mean two guys in the can like this....?" he replies "shut up and gimme that straw" SNOOOOOOOORT the dream continues the "entertainment" starts.....NEVER NEVER NEVER in my life have I ever had a dream so Vivid (video) .......... they strip for the guest of honor, although "stripping" has come a long shaven way........these "strippers" get more personal than your average gynocologist......i never knew rimming had such an elegant side to it. this dream took a twisted shameful edge when the guest of honor started doing lines off her chest.......what a "dream" i thought. what a dream then sunday morning came. jim was still clanging on that piano, I was still making nonmusic on the worlitzer...... yawwwwwwnnnnnnnn damn!

I think it is a lot of people just letting themselves go. I recognize people like Antigone, who probably has a problem other than lifestyle that contributes to his weight. I refuse to accept that the chronic obesity I see 'round these parts has nothing to do with more time in front of the tv, bad dietary choices, and almost no time exercising. However,I understand that a lot more is at play when you are talking about this problem as a whole, becuase it affects people from different geographical regions of origin differently, like lactose tolerance. I don't quite understand why Sarah says you can't increase muscle mass and lose fat at the same time. The last few times I've been on a workout regime, I often see that I'll lose inches around the waist the same time I gain inches in the chest and biceps, while staying at about the same weight. This clearly indicates muscle gain and fat loss at the same time. I've got the whole next 12 weeks planned out - however, there's going to have to be a week where I scale back exercises to body-weight stuff and jogs in the mornings, when I help Mavis move her stuff cross-country.

Mavis, you're moving to the east coast? YAY!

so now i'll be the only sorabji-oregon-resident? i don't know what to think. where're you moving, mavis?

HUZZ-FUCKITY-AH! Mavis on the east coast? MOVE TO JERSEY! I'm something like 5'7"...roundabout 126 pounds...kinda have a little bit of muscle tone left over from hiking/track...etc. I'm ok.

Hm, I dunno about the carbs thing. . . I lost like 20 lbs. a few years back, I started unintentionally b/c I would walk 3/4 of a mile to and from work every morning and afternoon, and the following year took to exercising. I've never really tried to control my diet, but I like carbs and eat lots of 'em. Yesterday's food was a plate of breakfast rice (fried with eggs and syrup and butter and soy sauce), a pack of saltines, and a bowl of ice cream. That's pretty typical, and I can lose a lot of weight when I'm running, and when I don't, it takes months for the gut to regenerate. Then again, my caffeine abuse might have something to do with my metabolism.

i should learn how to swim. i've been thinking about it for a while. if i can't run because of my ankles, swimming might be a good substitute, right? if i knew how. or maybe ballet...now there's a noble sport...

i can explain it to you scientifically, molecularly, but first i will try to explain it to you in more lay terms and see if it works: why can't you build muscle and lose fat at the same time? because basically, you can't build something out of nothing. to build muscle mass - and i'm talking about gaining actual muscle weight - you need to have not only sufficient, but a little extra building blocks in your system. you get these extra building blocks from nutrients and micronutrient, otherwise known as food (and supplements, which help, but are not necessary). extra food means extra fat. if you're training *properly* and efficiently for muscle gain (again, not just "toning up" your muscles, but gaining of actual muscle mass), you won't gain a lot of extra fat, but you will gain some. of course, the illusion of gaining muscle while losing fat is due to the fact that, as you lose fat, your muscles show more. even if you never lifted a weight, you will have more muscle definition if/when you lose enough fat. ok, now think of it this way. especially in semi's case, where he's already pretty lean... if you really were gaining muscle mass *and* losing fat at the same time, your actual body weight would increase when you weighed yourself on the scale. right? because muscle weighs more than fat. but that's not what happens typically. to lose body fat, aside from the whole protein/carb/fat ratio thing, essentially your body needs to be in caloric deficit. if you are in caloric deficit, you are not eating extra building blocks that your body would need to gain muscle mass. again, you can't build something out of nothing. and you certainly can't build something out of less than nothing. now, this applies to your average person. for someone like me this is a just a little bit different. stored fat is, essentially, extra building blocks. i had A LOT of extra building blocks. they were not the best form of building blocks - it was fat instead of protein. but still, it was extra. so as i was losing fat weight i actually did gain extra muscle mass at the same time, but not a lot. most of my weight training served simply to keep and "tone up" whatever muscle mass i did have, while i melted the fat away. but essentially the weight training during the majority of my fat loss served more to prevent me from losing muscle mass. i did not gain a lot of muscle mass until a month or so before i had surgery. i had gotten down to about 135 before surgery, but i wanted to be stronger, and more muscular. so my trainer put me on a slightly higher calorie diet and we did a month of intense weight training. i gained a total of ten pounds. most of it is fat, but a little bit of it is extra muscle mass. (btw, it isn't that easy, molecularly speaking, for women to gain muscle mass - or at least not as easy as it is for men). now that i have a couple extra pounds of lean mass, i can lose the extra fat weight i put on. and i can lose it faster and easier than before, because my metabolism is higher. here's the kicker though... this is the cool part. while it may be difficult to gain muscle mass, it is not difficult at all to get cut, tight, defined muscles. i'm serious. it doesn't require hours and hours in the gym. it doesn't require a lot of pain or lifting really heavy weights. in fact, time wise and energy wise, it doesn't take a whole hell of a lot. this is something people won't tell you. ladies, if you spend 30 to 60 minutes a day, 3 or 4 days a week doing anaerobic exercises, and doing them properly*, you can be "ripped". you will see results faster if you use free weights and/or resistance machines, but it's not entirely necessary... there are alternatives using your own body weight for resistance. [example: yoga people who are "ripped".] ****************************** ok, that's how you build muscle. now, how do you lose fat? here's how it works. by reducing carbs and increasing protein you are allowing your body to mobilize stored body fat into energy more effeciently, instead of wasting your body's energy burning up the carbs you're eating every day and only losing a little bit of stored body fat - which makes people frustrated and gives the illusion that losing stored body fat is a) diffuclt and b) requires you to be hungry a lot of the time. also by eating less carbs (all of which are essentially just plain sugar to your body), you will even out your blood sugars and any glycemic and insulin reactions your body is having that makes you so fucking hungry all the time and craving more sugars. if you can learn to retrain your cravings (which for me was the hardest part) - which essentially means doing your best to chow on proteins (even fatty ones like bacon cheeseburgers - with no bun) even when you're really hungry and your tummy is screaming out for chocolate brownies or potato chips, eventually you will get your apetite under control. you'll naturally stop over eating because through proper balance of nutrients, you'll have restored a "normal" apetite. granted, for some people, over eating can be an emotional thing, no doubt. i'm sure i have nothing to say that can help someone like that - that's a job for a psychologist. but if you over eat because you just are hungry all the time, that is how to stop it. now, i'm not saying to stop eating all carbs, but rather greatly reduce your intake of the types of carbs that rate highly on the glycemic index (meaning that they cause rapid and big changes in your blood sugar levels). stick to high fiber fruits, like peaches, nectarines, berries, grapes, plums, oranges and grapefruits. avoid or reduce more starchy type fruist, like apples, papaya, mango, bananas. pretty much all veggies are fine, even in huge quantities, cooked or raw. you should avoid or limit starches; pasta, or anything with wheat, oatmeal, corn, potatoes, even carrots and beets (which are tubers, like potatoes). i'm also not saying this is the only way to lose fat. i guess some people can do it using the food pyramid nutrition plan. but then you have to reduce your overall calorie intake even more and you'll get results a lot slower than you would if you reduce carbs and eat proteins. you get hungrier. in my experience, that's where the defeat originates. hunger and cravings. losing weight is only hard if you let yourself go hungry. if you can get through the first part of getting your hunger regulated naturally by retraining your cravings and scarfing down on the meats, eggs, fishes, cheeses, then you have overcome the biggest barrier to long-term weight loss. another trick is this: everything in moderation. even the low-carb thing. don't get stupid about it. if you want to eat a bowl of ice cream on saturday night or go out for a few beers, go for it. i mean, my god, don't be insane. live like a normal person. eat cake at the birthday party. eat pancakes with syrup for breakfast once in a while. suck a martini after work. no biggie. i mean, if you're sticking to the plan 5 days a week, and blowing it two days a week, you'll still be way ahead of the game. what i'm trying to say is, this is totally do-able. this is not hard and does not require superhuman efforts of will power; it does not require obsessive or radical changes of lifestyle. all you got to do is learn the trick: make food a priority. if you have *a lot* of weight to lose, maybe it does require what would seem to be superhuman efforts and overcoming huge obstacles. i'm sure it depends on the individual and her/his life. but i look at it this way. the credo for people who are in AA or overcoming a drug addiction is that recovery was/is the most selfish thing they have ever done. but it had to be that way, right? because they were not happy and were not functioning in a healthy way as an addict, they had to put all of their energies into getting sober. they had to completely change their lives and make huge sacrifices and fight biological and social and cultural forces. sometimes overcoming obesity has to be that way too. [and *not* because obesity is socially taboo or because you need to look a certain way, but because obesity is just plain very bad for your health]. it has to be your priority. it has to come before everything else. and that's selfish. sometimes that's to the short-term detriment of other people and things in your life. so you only have one hour of free time. you *have* to go for a walk for 40 minutes instead of folding the laundry. you *have* to make time to go to the grocery store twice a week and cook meals and plan ahead your food, instead of taking your kid to soccer practice and grabbing some fast food on the way. you have to prioritize. you have to be selfish about it. my friend joan argues with me about this. she says that if she has an hour of free time she would rather write letters to her congresspeople in support of environmental legistlation, or volunteer for Big Brothers Big Sisters, or spend that free time doing something for the health of the planet rather than her own health, or playing with her kids. my counter argument is that, if she gets her own health under control first, she'll be around a lot longer to enjoy her kids and she'll have more energy, she'll be able to write more letters and volunteer more hours in the long run. but first things first. see... you have to be in your body every single moment of your life. it is you. it moderates everything in your life, your relationship to every person. it moderates your moods, cycles, your psychology, your intelligence and concentration, your ability to do work. you are a biological and physiological being. your body is, essentially, everything that you are. if you are not healthy (and there are many levels and types of healthy - and i don't necessarily believe that being 10-30 lbs overweight is unhealthy...) then everything about you and everything around you suffers because of it, even if you don't realize it. i'm going to post this before my computer crashes and i lose it all. then i'll write about proper weight training. :) i'm sure a lot of people out there will disagree or get angry over something i've written. please let me have it. i really want to understand how other people see all this and where other people are coming from. even though i have spent the last year and half studying physiology and human nutrition, as well as playing with my own food intake and recording my own feelings and changes with how i deal with the world through all of this, i still have a lot to learn... a long way to go. i realize not everyone is like me. also, i know this is all self-indulgent, but it's going to help me help others when i start trying it professionally. so sorry for taking up space with my blabbing. ****************************** * next up: proper weight training techniques to get those muscles really defined. also, did anyone hear from pamela? wonder how her baby is...

jesus. increasing muscle mass boosts metabolism, so you're burning more calories in time of rest. that's all i say. and i have a bowflex. and i like it.

you don't know how to swim pez? you know i hear this from time to time. full grown adults who don't know how to swim. I was practically raised in the water, with my grand pa towing me around in the pool before the age 3. I often hear many people who can't swim have a coinciding irrational fear of the water. People, teach your children to swim, besides potentially saving their life, its fun!!

probably way too busy to type...one would hope. Hmm. Interesting ideas on the muscle building/fat loss idea. Ok, I am suprised at this bit, Sarah: "if you really were gaining muscle mass *and* losing fat at the same time, your actual body weight would increase when you weighed yourself on the scale. right?" Which weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of rocks? if you lose a bit of fat, then you should also lose a corresponding amount of weight. Right? However, if you do lose fat (confirmed by weighing, tape measure and bodyfat testing), but your weight stays the same, then something had to take its place. If you are weight training, it's likely muscle. Plus: if you are building more muscle, you are increasing the rate your body burns calories, since extra muscle requires more calories to maintain, while fat requires no energy to maintain (which is why it's damn hard to get rid of!). So, if you are building extra muscle, you are burning more calories, and if you are watching what you eat, then I don't see why you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time. I understand the calorie deficit thing. However, it seems possible to me to operate on a calorie deficit and still gain muscle/lose fat.(I've had some success personally, which is why I say so) I mean, I've lost fat around my middle, while increasing both the visibility and the size of muscles. Now, If I was just losing fat, the loss of inframuscular fat (is that right word? Too much glue fumes today I suppose) would actually make my muscles appear smaller, wouldn't it? If you do your aerobic exercise first thing in the morning before breakfast, then you are operating at a glycogen deficit already. What I did (and plan on resuming) was to go to the gym before work, do 20 minutes of high-intensity interval aerobics, then eat a balanced meal of protein and carbs and a small amount of fat about an hour later (usually something like a cup of yogurt, 3-4 slices smoked turkey, and 2 cups of water). That really worked for me, becuase even after I finished teh exercise, if I did it right, my metabolism was still revving right up to the meal. So, fat burning. On the most part though, i totally agree with what you're saying Sarah. Especially the bit about not restricting your self all the time. But I've found that after a while of living healthy, it's easier and easier not to "fll of teh wagon" so to speak. Oh, I realize that I may have been misinterpreted as feeling that it's bad to be fat. I want to make clear that I don't think being fat is "bad' or "good", but I'm firmly with Sarah on thinking it's pretty unhealthy. How many really old fat people do you see? And I want to apologize to Antione and anyone else who may have taken offense (however unintended on my part) from what I write.

I've convinced myself I am not going to get fat by eating apples, bananas, carrots, and mangoes. I don't know if it's true or not. 6'3, 170, or therabouts.

"Which weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of rocks?" Damn, Sem, did you know my father? He always used to ask me that. I always chose rocks.

the only thing that makes you fat is eating more food than your body needs to use. you can eat cookies all day long and not be fat. i'm not talking about how to gain weight or maintain weight, i'm talking about how to lose it. entirely different story. i wish i was 6'3".

semi, you can do it that way, yes, but again, the premise is that you have excess nutrients in your system. it's also why, when you want to lose fat, you lift first, do aerobic exercise second. when you lift, you're using up the excess calories you have in your system, and then when you start doing aerobic stuff, you've already depleted the excess sugars and can go right into fat burning. shit. actually, thanks for that, it's a good tip. i'm going to try doing that this week and see what happens. i'll go for a run first thing in the ay em, and then lift in the evening. that actually would be more efficient biologically. and i could probably get the five pounds off really fast. cool.

i used to have really poor eating habits. i've always eaten healthy food, but too much of it. i used to eat as much as my dad, and he's 6'4" and at least 240 lbs. if i keep myself busy, then i eat less. it's that simple. so i'm doing alot more than i used too. and i've cut down on eating french fries, which were the only junk food i allowed myself. i've found that oven fries (potatoes sliced and baked on a cookie sheet) taste a lot better. and the ketchup is better too. without the grease.

Sarah - That really works great! You should try teh high-intensity 20 minute aerbics as well. Bsically you, work your way up a scale, 1-10, but you start at 5. (for me, it's level 1 being couch potato mode, 2 minor activity while seated, 3 activity while standing, 4 walking slow, 5 is a brisk walk, 6 a slow jog, 7 a medium-slow jog, 7 a brisk jog, 8 a slow run, 9 a faster run, and 10 a sprint.) What you do is for the first 2 minutes, you exercise at level 5, then go to 6 for a minute, then 7 for a minute, then 8 for a minute, then 9 for a minute, then back down to 6, and then 7, 8, 9, 6, 7, 8, 9, 6, 7, 8, 9. At 18 minutes in, you go for a ten, which is your absolute supreme effort, and keep it up for a minute (you can tell if it's your ultimate effort if you can just barely last a minute), then cool down at level 5 for a minute. When I work out, that's what I do (or try to do) 3 days a week, an hour before breakfast. IT's intense,it burns calories like a m-----f------, and damn if it doesn't wake your ass up, too! I like it because it saves time, but burns about as much K as a an exercise done at a slower pace for a longer time. Plus, if you do your aerobics before breakfast, you can burn 300% more fat K than you can if you have a full tank of carbs.

Sem, i talked to my trainer on tuesday about doing sprint intervals before breakfast and he advised against it. he suggested that i drink a small protein and glucose replacement meal about 30-45 minutes before morning exercise, or just eat a very light breakfast. he said something about how exercising when your liver is completely empty of glycogen can cause a depletion in some essential mineral or fatty acid or... shit, i can't remember right now what he called it... in the body and that might actually work against fat loss in the long run. something about lack of glycogen and triggering a chemical in your body that tells your metabolism to slow down because it thinks it's starving. whereas exercising with simply a deficit of sugars in your system doesn't trigger this response. however, i still like the idea of getting that metabolism boost first thing in the morning and burning up some fat K, so this morning i got up earlier and did yoga (instead of at night) and spent 30-45 minutes gardening. then i ate breakfast. i was late for work though so i'll have to get up even earlier. which is fine, i like being up early and going to bed early. i *will* do the 20 minute sprint intervals after lifting 4 days a week. the remaining day i'll do endurance. so we've started a new session and he actually agreed to start training me like a body builder. he's working out a menu plan for me which i'll get tomorrow. it'll be keeping a very tight eating schedule in terms of timing, also with very exact amounts of nutrient intake before and after training sessions. i think i can hack it for 6-8 weeks or so, 4 days a week. the other 3 days i can eat like a normal person. and it'll be fun to see what happens. i got my bottle of Femme SomethingorOther Creatine solution in the mail last night. five drops of this strawberry flavored stuff under the tongue right before training. lonny doesn't know, but i'll probably have to tell him.

No offense, but I don't think your trainer is right. It's only a temporary dip in glycogen levels. I think what he might mean is if you are constantly low on glycogen for the long term, which when I work out, I'm not. I eat six small meals a day, a portion of carbs, a portion of protien, with a portion of fruits/veges at least twice a day. basically, the human body doesn't really recognize that you're seriously starving and starts to conserve fat until about two weeks into a diet with deficit calorie intake (according to results of studies I read a while back, so I am paraphrasing this). That's when fat loss gets shut down seriously, because your body does think you're in trouble. That's why a lot of people really gain fat fast after an extreme calorie reduction diet: the body is trying to make sure that you are"stocked up" for the next round of famine. (When you're a hunter-gatherer, the feast-famine cycle is pretty real, and we still have the H-G physiology) With my program, I get a free day every week, when I can eat whatever I want. This not only helps me stick to the plan the other 6 days by letting me eat ice cream and ribs and whatnot, keeping the cravings low for them; but also keeps my body informed that I am not starving, although my calorie intake is at a small deficit.

i eat five humongous meals a day. few of them would be considered "balanced" by standard nutritional measures. but anyway, no offense taken. and no offense to you, but i'd trust lonny's advice before yours. so far everything he has suggested to me has helped; almost all of it has been downright enlightening. he's a health professional - he's knowledgable and passionate about his work and is always learning new stuff, keeping up with the latest. also, he knows me, my body, and my overall health issues better than you do, so i'm going to take his advice on this one. not that what you're doing is bad for you, it's probably good for you if that's what gives you results, but that doesn't mean it would work for me. time to eat lunch #2. yay!

Diff'rent Strokes for Diff'rent folks. I guess the thing to emphasize is that there is no one best way to get fit/lose weight/ whatever your health goal is. you just have to find what works for you.

Sarah, I am going to have to talk to you lots in the next year b/c I want to lose all this pregnancy weight gain... It is actually not a lot of weight, but mostly inches... I need to work on my abs and my thighs mostly. I know it has only been 3 weeks since I had Ethan, but I really don't want to goof off too much. I am thinking that by the time Ethan is 3 months old, I need to have a good workout plan. BTW, Ethan is doing really well. He is very cute! I will be posting new pictures of him soon on my website, but I have to get them developed first. Oops, gotta go feed the little man, he is hungry... again.

Pamela, whenever you are ready, let me know. i'm currently working with my first "client", a woman i met who wanted to be my ginuea pig. it's working out really well so far. i've helped to design a program for her based on her goals and what her lifestyle, what she likes to eat and when, and what kinds of activities she enjoys. i've also been able to pass on some really useful, practical tips for dealing with a wide variety of issues, like grocery budgets, cravings and hunger, meal times, eating out, even just little attitude stuff too. if you don't need all that crap, that's fine too. if i can be of help to you in any way, let me know. the good news is this: it's not as hard as you think it's going to be. once you learn the trick, you'll be amazed. but nobody else will tell you that. :) have fun with Ethan! post some more photos! i want monthly progress reports.

I love this shit. I was a real fat ass about a year ago and since then i've become like an exercise freak. read everything i could find about losing weight/gaining muscle. that excess, hard to lose fat is called subcutaneous fat. There's this shit made by Met-rx that is really good to drink after working out. has all kinds of good shit for you in it. lots of protein too. I've heard good things about working out first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. I wake up and pop some twinlab diet fuel and ride my bike like a mofo for forty minutes and then eat breakfast. works for me. your body is like a fine automobile engine. you can tune that bitch to run like a motherfuck if you know what you're doing. there's so much information out there you really have to try to find what works best for you. it all really comes down to burning more calories in a day then you take in to lose weight. gaining muscle involves resistance training and increased protein intake. fat has a bad rap. protein, carbs and fat can all become fat if not burned off. fat just has more calories per gram than protein or carbs so it adds up quicker. i don't know about creatine. slamming a few cups of coffee before working out does it for me. so does a double bowl of oatmeal about two hours before. i just need to shave my chest so i can look like those guys in the magazines. i picked up this one workout magazine and it was like a disguise gay mag. all thes pics of well-defined muscle guys with their flys down and shit.

That shit's the shit, you shit!

arg. . . I started eating out. After being semi-vegetarian for a while (see the other thread where I talk about how I'm too lazy to deal w/ meat), meat is like crack. I went out for a burrito with pork. The next day, chicken and cheese and peppers and whatnot. Last night, italian sandwich (lunchmeats, served hot with everything) and today chicken with cashews. And now I'm hungry again and I don't know if I can make myself settle for ramen or cereal or all that other good stuff I have at home.

Antigoshit------Bravo!

Tired, chew your crack. It'll digest better. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your crack?!

i really need to write this one down before i forget. last night i had three recurring dream segments all blend together. the middle segment has only recurred 3-4 times, while the beginning and ending segments are annoyingly and infinitely recurrent. only the middle segment is of any sorabji significance. the first segment is the "i'm trying to get to the airport to catch a flight" dream, where you're late, you're unpacked, you can't find your keys, you can't find the gate, you stop to talk to Lilly Tomlin, etc. the ending segment is the walking on the beach and noticing each time how just a little different the coastline is or how calm or treacherous the surf is, like in real life. the middle segment involves me going to Czarina's house. i stop by on my way to the airport. i walk up to the stairs to the small wooden porch. the front door is open, the screen door is shut. i let myself in. the house is dark, messy, and nobody is home, except a dog or a cat. this time it was a big fat grey tabby cat on a wooden chair with a tightly woven wicker seat. there was laundry everywhere. i stopped by only to drop off a gift, which i carried in one of those decorative gift bags. i have the feeling i'm not supposed to be there, even though my motive for being there is nothing but to drop off a gift. this part is the only part of the dream i had which is totally brand new and fucking weird: when i leave Czarina's house, there is a big van in the driveway. an asian girl is dressed in heavy black clothes and a hood, like a cloak, like a witch or a priestess. then i see more women dressed just like her, and they are setting up long black heavy drapes which hang over ropes connected in a circle by large steel poles which they have begun to erect. it occurs to me i have no idea how they got the poles anchored in the ground. the girl approaches me. i think to myself, i'm not supposed to be seeing this. this is some sort of secret order, they are preparing for a ceremony of some sort. i tell the girl, i'm a friend of Czarina's, i just stopped by to drop off a gift. it occurs to me that she probably has no idea who Czarina is because that's not her real name and this asian girl will probably think i'm lying. so i try to explain to her that i know Czarina isn't her real name and how i know through the internet. the girl listens and nods. "yes," she says. "i recall her speaking of the website." she turns away and goes back to the circle. more people have arrived. i'm standing back, watching, knowing that i should be getting off to the airport, but i can't leave. i'm expecting to see some sort of bizarre worship happen. instead, all of the new people who have arrived are not dressed in long black heavy clothing. one of the people is nate. another is czarina herself. one is antigone. there are other sorabjiites. i recognize them, but i couldn't name them. conspicuously absent are heather and agatha. there are other people there who i don't know, but everyone there seems to know everyone else very well. all the folks get in a circle and some music starts playing, and everyone starts singing and dancing and acting very silly. everyone is having a hell of a good time too, standing around in a circle with these long black drapes behind them, singing and dancing as if they had done this a hundred times before. i felt amused and also very left out. then it was off to the airport, and then eventually back to the beach. the waves were quiet this time, as opposed to last time, when the surf thundered and i saw a girl pull off the most amazing surfing/save after almost getting slammed to her death by a huge wave. the coast line was more eroded than last time, due to the former heavy surf. i didn't venture as far down the coast as i typically do during this recurring dream. i only peeked around the way to see how much sand was left on the sand cliff. they say that taking melatonin makes you dream more.

Try B12 and zinc.

heather and i were at the bar.

and it was lovely. we're just getting tired of all this happysatanicritualblackclothdancing business

Last night the three themese of my dreams were 1. sex 2. buildings falling down 3. midgets. none of the above were connected to any of the others, and I don't think it had anything to do with sorabji at all.

I had a dream with Paul Prudhomme in it. Can't remember much, but I remember he let me ride in his cart.

I don't know a thing about any kind of voodoo cult that Czazina is operateing,I mean it ,I don't have a clue and I am not involved in any way, shape, or form with any alleged voodoo cults.

Alright,I admit it.Maybe the long black drapes were a little too mellow-dramatic. I wanted something in a nice chintz.But Nate bucked the idea,and Antigone is tall,so he felt we needed the lenght. The Asian girl works the suishi bar,which is why we all seemed happy. Heather and Agatha wouldn't come,because Dave was suspicious of the cat on the wicker chair.[and he never liked the long black drapes,and made a scene the last time,cause he thought royal purple would better serve our purpose] J is and has always been in charge of the voo-doo dolls,so don't let her kid you. It was a surprise party for you Sarah. SURPRISE!

You should stay out of my fantasy closet. You're not ready for them. When you are they'll all be for sale at your local Sears; or K-Mart. I haven't decided which.

last night i dreamed that i was with Antigone and another guy from this site, his name started with a D but i never figured out who it was. Maybe Dave, maybe one of the other D guys. They were traveling together and we decided to meet up at someone's house, which was actually just a hardware store with couches. Anyway, i showed up late and i knew who they were but they couldn't guess which sorabji girl i was. They never did figure out who i was until i told them, they kept guessing either pez or Spider. (?) dunno. Or Cat or Gee or moonit. The D person was like a young greek/italian guy, good looking (if i was into that), straight out of some soap opera or sub-titled movie. He didn't talk much, he just waved his hair around like a shampoo commercial. Come on dave, i know that was you. Antigone was funny and looked just like this animator guy i know, all tall blonde and lanky. Zany. Kinda balding. I can't even remember what the real pictures of antigone looked like. I think we played cards.

You're close with ANtigone. You missed the stillborn fetus twin he has hangin' off him though.

there used to be this show on Comedy Central last year called Happy Fun Time. ever see it? My friend has tapes of it, and christ is it hilarious, but it ws shortly pulled. Anyway, speaking of fetuses...they had this animated skit called "Fetal Scooby Doo".

i had a dream last night about the 2nd wave of attacks. from my office (in the dream) you could see all the way downtown, and what happened was that at dusk 6 planes took off from LGA and they all abruptly turned toward manhattan. we could only see 2 of them. one was the size of the space shuttle and that one plowed into 14th street/union square. the smaller one seemed to be coming right at us but for some reason no one could tell exactly what it was aiming for or what it would hit. somehow we knew it was aiming for cnn but we couldn't tell if we'd get it or if madison square garden or a bunch of apartments nearby would get it. we knew there were 4 other planes about to hit other parts of new york but we didn't know where they would hit. everyone knew they were going to die. the last thing i did was grab a camera and then i went to WAYD and said goodbye. and then i woke up.

curious. i've had dreams where there last thing i did was post to WAYD too. i'd usually wake up and think about how if i died people here would probably just figure i got bored and would wander back someday. years later someone would find and old post and wonder what ever happened to me. probably got busy or married or something, they'd muse. i guess this isn't so true, anymore. i have some biological backup when it comes to my sorabjiite existance. i suppose quite a few of us do, now. there was once a time when the only passing we'd notice would be sorabji himself... or so it seemed.

I had a dream last night about another SorabjiFest. We all met at a run down wood house. It was in a semi-wooded area with evergreen type foliage. It was near an industrial area. It was cloudy, almost misty. Four of us drove to the house in a car, a brown 70's american car. I think Mark and Dave were in the front (Mark was driving) with Cat and I in the back. Cat was talking nonstop and the rest of us were just listening, knowing it was pointless to try wedging in a word. When we got to house food was cooking on and in the stove, but everyone was out back or out for supplies. Dave mumbled something incomprehensible and stalked off to a back room. I remember smelling chili powder and garlic from something bubbling on the stove. I think it was a large gathering, but it seemed empty. Lots of people were coming, and there was an air of excitement and tension. That's all I can remember. I think it's cool that lots of us are having Sorabji dreams all at once. :)

And, what the fuck are you talking about, sem? That fetus ain't stillborn, son. It talks and walks, man! It sings and dances!

"a dream is but itself a shadow" the motto under my senior pic in my high school yearbook PTSD. Survivor guilt. Dying without meeting all the people who have become important here. Who are more than pixels, except here. Phrases from Appollinaire drift through.

importance is but itself a shadow -the motto next to k.d.'s 6th grade photocopied yearbook picture. the kid who pee'd in his chair at the back of the room in second grade and made a tiny stream all the way to the front of the class.

oh, and the only 'what is possibly a fest' dream i can recall took place on some above-gound spider web-like wooden deck thing and i only remember sarah although other people were there

I had myself a little sorabjifest dream last night but it was just all hot spanky noodle stuff you wouldn't want to know about. My dreams have been particularly norti lately. I'm blaming it on the peanut butter sandwiches. p.s. pffft Pantiephone, I don't talk *that* much.

Reading all this talk about sorabi dreams is influincing my own. I rarely remember my dreams, but I do remember Nate looking angry at me. I think he was kicking me out of his house. The rest is very hazy. I'm not sure if anyone else was there. And I'm sure we're all dying to hear about your hot spanky noodle dreams, Cat. What would you say in your last WAYD? If you knew you were a goner in, say, 3 minutes... Would any of us take it seriously?

this is becoming a problem. Im suspect. perhaps the sorabji-server-spirit is manifesting. perhaps a twisted drawn out script could be developed along the lines of Nightmare on Elm Street and The Matrix in which a group of kids get overrun by a machine that just wants life. Perhaps these dreams are all apart of a breakthrough the machine is attempting to make. pretty soon we'll all be dreaming the same dream and become apart of some international, galactic digital conscious. Drones!!!!

For me it would depend on who posted it,this isn't a real dream,it's just a daydream or a fantasy,but I have thought alot about a sorabji fest.In my fantasy we plan it out 3 years ahead so everyone can save up the just under $500.00 dollars round trip to fly to Costa Rica,then we rent a house for a week or how long we stay.And then we just party in paradise we even have a sorabijite based there already,Naked Bill could hook us up.Anyway that's been something I actually think about,I'd buy cases of Imperial Beer.

hold one in a year from now so i'd be bar-legal (other than being in a band). i talked to freja last night. it wasn't kinky but very very powerful.

A string of explatives. Followed by a South Park movie Kenny "Goodbye you guys".

i've never kicked anyone out of my house. i've made people want to leave, though.

My last WAYD post... might be.... "My eyes feel the pressure of your fingertips." or, "It snowed here four inches last night"

so... i had a sorabji dream last night. it was a little weird, and it also happened to be my first lucid dream ever (YAY.). i think there was some sort of sorabjifest going on, i'm not sure, but anyway hal and patrick and possibly sem (though i'm not sure, could possibly have been nate) were in my house. following me everywhere, into the bathroom and into my bedroom, i was a little afraid and couldn't get my comfort bubble. they ended up throwing me down on the floor and taking my clothes away. finally i yelled, "you guys are scaring me! get out of my dream!" sem/nate was like "ooh, we're scaring her. ooh! ooh!" (i wish sarcasm was easier to do on the internet) waving his hands around in my face. patick said "wahtever. let's go do something else." hal didn't say anything, mostly just looked at me. then i woke up.

eh. that doesn't sound very nice.

every night for the past 5-6 sleeps in a row i dream that i'm very, very pregnant. like any day about to give birth pregnant. it's very uncomfortable and i want to hurry up and have the baby. the dreams are long and elaborate, featuring many different people. i can feel the baby inside, sometimes kicking, sometimes turning itself upside down to get ready to come out head first. i never know if it's a boy or girl.

must have been sem.

Sarah, when you are that pregnant, the baby is moving (hitting and kicking) so much that you go numb in some places, and you can't feel when it assumes the birth position (which is usually weeks before the actual birth). I can honestly tell you, when you are pregnant, once you enter the thrird trimester the rest of the pregnancy is counting down til the delivery. I have always said that labor and delivery are just the workout that ends the torture of pregnancy. Sounds like everyone here is having scary dreams. My dreams have been boring lately. Just dreaming about my daily life. Nothing special. I guess that is a relief from the nightmares. Going swimming every day has been tiring me out more, and I have been sleeping much better.

I had a dream about zombies last night. Then I had a dream about a sweet dog and a little boy. It was a like a reward for having had the nightmare.

i slept for an hour and a half last night, got up and drank with my housemates who'd gtten home from a bar, went to bed again at 5:30 am and slept 'til 11. no dreams. i felt like i should've been scared by last night's dream but it was mostly really annoying. i woke up annoyed. it was my first lucid dream, dangit, and even THAT didn't take me seriously.

last night I dreamed we had a number for the door downstairs, and it was 79. I thought it was odd because it was only a two digit number.

I live in number 27. Our street goes up to 34. Why are two digit numbers odd?

I had a dream last night that the towers were falling and I couldn't find Mark in all the dust and debris and loose paper floating to earth (straight out of the footage from the Milan tower). I woke up and it was real.

because all the buzz numbers in this building are three-digits.

Buzz numbers? 'mericans and 'nadians are wierd.

buzz numbers are the numbers that you punch into the intercom in an appartment building to call the person to let you in.

nadians. ha.

Ohhh, thanks. We just usually knock on the door. Or yell. Or most of my friends seem to have keys for some reason.

My Grandmother ran a small gated apartment complex once. When you entered the gate to get in you had to have the key or punch in a code to page someone in that apartment to let you in. I had never heard them referred to as buzz numbers before, but it makes perfect sense.

well...yeah moonit, this is america you're talking about. we have guns and its fairly damn dangerous here compared to New Zealand . Most apartments in major US and Canadian cities (so it seems) have security buzzers. I do. Of course anyone with brains, trying to get into my crib could realize they can walk up the sides of the bldg and go around the back, making the security buzzer completely moot.

wow. living in the city must be wierd. i've never even locked my doors. strange.

i live in the city and i never lock my doors. and my front door opens out onto the street.

have either of you ever had your house broken into (or walked into) and valuables stolen? I have. My house was robbed when i was a kid, stole all my brothers guitars. And in Atlanta, our rehersal studio was robbed. Fortunately they didnt feel like taking drums, and the moog was with us at home because we had played a gig the night before. Only amp heads and guitars and a bass were taken. i value my music and camera equipment too much not to turn the fucking deadbolt.

i've always had a dog that barks. our doors are unlocked. in fact, i'm not even sure where the keys are.

i have a cat that would hide under the couch. the first apartment i lived in when i moved to texas when i was twelve was broken into and something was stolen, but i can't remember what. when i was a senior in high school, the little band i was in would practice in a room behind the unattached garage. one saturday morning we went out there and most of the stuff was gone: all the amps, the mixing board, a couple of guitars, etc. all of it was second hand stuff. we called the cops and the insurance company. a couple days later we get a call from a guy named walt grape, who owns a pawn shop we did a lot of business with. the thieves had come in to try to pawn it. he recognized a couple of the pieces as stuff he'd sold to us. he threatened to call the cops on them, and they left the stuff with him. it turned out that friend's of the drummer's cousin had stolen the stuff. we got about half of the stuff back (we were warned that those guys were dangerous and not try to get the other stuff back) and got the settlement fromt he insurance company (neglecting to mention our recovery of certain items) and we bought all new stuff. it turned out pretty well. my tv is a early 80's hunk of junk, the cd on my stereo doesn't work anymore, my computer is on its last legs - a thief can have any one of these items. the objects i really value in my apartment nobody would steal. so i'm all set.

the saying goes. only musicians steal music equipment.

When I was about 4 years old and we lived in the bay area our house was broken into. The only things that were stolen were my heirloom pieces of jewlery. We lived in Apple Valley and our apartment was broken into, but it turned out that they didn't want what we had and everything was found. I lock the doors and cars religiously. Not that anyone would want my hunk of junk, but the things I have are too valuable to me. It isn't a matter of losing a pearl necklace, but rather one that was handed down to me from my Grandmother and is therefore irreplaceable. Along with a lot of our furniture and jade vases, and thing of that nature. Irreplaceable pieces, no matter what they are worth. I have 2-3 locks on every door and every window and I use them all, ALL of the time, no matter where I live, because it isn't worth the risk.

My car window was busted out two weeks ago. They stole a portable MP3 CD player. I still haven't fixed the window. No money left.

that happened to me on xmas. it was about $500 cheaper to go buy a whole door at a junkyard. the color (actually gray but whatever) is just slightly more dark due to the donor patient being 2 years younger with that much less exposure to uv. $30 bucks for the door. almost $600 for the glass replacement.

i've never been robbed or broken into once in chicago i went down to my car to find the driver's side window broken. my guts did that flippy thing because i was going down to retrieve the purse [well, it didn't really look like a purse] which i'd left in the backseat. but it was still there. i figured the window must have broken by itself from the cold or things flying off the L because when someone breaks into a car in chicago they take everything that can be carried or stripped away.

I agree with Eri. Lock up, all the time, every time. It isn't worth it to depend on the goodness of people. I had an alarm system installed in every apartment and house that I have lived in, whether the landlord liked it or not. I don't go for the bars on windows thing, because it makes the house and neighborhood look like shit. The key is to find a place to live that simply isn't easily accessible by smashing a window. I see people with those long windows that run either side of their door and think they are nuts. I have windows on my front door now, but they are set really high up, and are too small to climb through. If it looked like a problem, I would do what Dave did and buy a new door while I lived there. Too many people that rent just accept the security situation whatever it might be and just hope for the best. I never accepted that and made sure that the locks were changed, ran a security system with a nice LOUD metal schoolbell type alarm, and installed deadbolts if I had to. I also recommend keeping a gun on hand if you have the stomach ( and lack of kiddies) for it. Get one now before the approaching New World Order makes it impossible. (PS. I don't want to start a whole gun/anti-gun thing. Its an individuals right to have one or not, and I don't really feel one way or another about it)

i just lived in places that looked so shitty that there couldn't possibly be anything valuable that, and the guy in the lower flat in chicago had a huge rottweiler

My window was busted in Feb. They only took a small bag of mille nico panties (figures in Silverlake) and a new window costed me $180. What the hell..$600...did you have a bay window on your car dave? I agree with Christopher about putting bars on windows. There are tons of bush species that make getting into windows a prickly painful mess.

I usually did not lock my car doors. one night, i decided to. i had an acura integra with a sunroof and all that jazz, and bought a portable cd player that plugged into the tape player, had a cell phone (the old type that you installed in the vehicle, with a microphone and speaker). i usually did not lock the car doors. one night I decided to, and that very night was the ONLY night my car was broken into. they stole all of my cd's, my cd player and the HANDPEICE only too the cellphone. I still wonder if there is some idiot out there trying to get the damn hand peice to work....

He leaves my cars unlocked too. It drives me nuts. I have a 91 dodge caravan, covered in body damage, cracked winshield, no one would want it. I guess it is just that I don't see a point in risking it. Hell if someone needs a car bad enough to steal my hunk o junk, they are in some sorry shape, but that isn't my problem, and it may be shitty, but it's mine. I need a car with the kids.

I came back to my apartment after being gone for the Christmas holidays (1993 I think) to find the door crowbar-ed in and everything gone. Clothes, stereo, tv, wife's jewelery. The kicker was that the woman who lived across the hall saw everything through her peephole (they made 2 trips up and down 4 flights of stairs) but was "too scared to call the police" for fear they might hear her making the call.

Maybe she would have been too scared to call the police after you kicked her ass.

Huh?

I started to read this thread but gave up before I figured out if it is actually about sorabji dreams. I had one last night, anyway. I feel a little guilty about it, actually. It was only a dream, but it involved having sex with Eri. Sorry Trace. It's not really something I think about a lot, it just happened in the dream. The dream starts way before that, though. I was in this tube formed by a loose weave of heavy orange wire. Loose such that you could see through it easily, with the view being an elevated one of the Pacific Ocean, the Marin Headlands, Angel Island, Alcatraz, the City. I could hear a news report saying that today marked the opening of the new whatsyhoosit, an observation tunnel across the top of the Golden Gate Bridge. On one end of the tunnel a jet is docked, held by its roof to the underneath of the observation structure. It was a gold commuter-size jet, but apparently with enough power that it could drop from where it was, kick in the engines and take off. Oo, sci-fi. Suddenly everything shakes. Explosions ring out and to the west evidence of explosions start to appear on the horizon. Billows of black smoke rising from the ocean. Someone says "It's coming from Alcatraz!" I turn to look at Alcatraz and see nothing. We're being attacked by something, coming from the sea. People are frantic. Somehow I find myself down at one end of the bridge, the San Francisco side, but inside the structure of the bridge somehow. I help an older Filipino woman left a young boy and a baby over a fence. I help the woman over the fence. Now she's crying "Where is my baby?" I'd handed the baby to a woman in uniform, but the woman was gone. I run off looking for the baby. Somehow I find myself in a large building. There is a stairway up the center of the building. The floors are clean university hallways. I believe there is a museum at the top floor. I find Trace and Eri and some other people I know there. I tell them what happened and we decide to go to a different museum. Somehow Eri and I get seperated from the rest of the group. Eri's wearing a red, flowery knee-length dress. We get to the bottom level of the building. I sit her on my lap on a bench and find myself inside her. Which is odd, because I can count the times I've actually had sex in a dream on one hand. That was it. I was starting to wonder if I should come inside her when I woke up. Sorry Trace.

Nate, there is no need to apologize. I have always told Eri I cannot blame anyone for looking at her or fantasizing about her, or whatever. In fact, in my humble, biased opinion, something has got to be wrong with someone who likes females and does not find her attractive..... And you cannot control your dreams either.

Woo hoo!!!!!! Sex dreams about me!!!!!! Heh. But I don't have a dress like that. I have yet to find that little red dress. Spunky is biased :) I am wondering if this dream actually has more to do with me being around in a crisis type situation rather than sex, though. Like something is attacking from the ocean, and we end up losing everyone and alone, so maybe sex is like something meaning nurturing in a time of fear or loss of control in a scary situation? Just my fuzzy brain looking through haze. I'm probably full of shit.

the only sex dreams i can remember having have been with women. i find that strange. i remember kissing boys in my dreams, but that's it.

Great. At the next SorabjiFest, eri's gonna wear a red knee-length dress and all hell's gonna break loose. Shit, maybe Cat will show up and hell will freeze over. :)

by then we'll all be too old for hell to break loose, we might have a nice chuckle about things.

Speaking of which, is there one in the works?

How about DFW or Austin? Around Halloween?

I gotta prior engagement in Chicago.

id have to advocate dave's house. on valentines day. spunk you can have his favorite chair. i want the remote. we can drink his beer. nate eat his hippie stool softeners and clog his toilet.

Now there is a mental picture. DFW or Austin would rock, though. Cuz we might actually be able to afford the trip, especially Austin since it is only 84 miles away. I have to find the red dress though. Nate, did you say it had flowers on it or will any red dress do? :p

hey hey hey

It's fat albert

Anywhere in Texas would be great, but there ain't many of us here. But, if it's in DFW, we can have a Bar-B-Q at my place. That is...if I have enough money to eat by then...if my company gets the funding we need. If we get the cash, I'm takin' all ya'll to Bali in two years...

sorabji is dense and mystical and the name that often comes to mind is scriabin as demonstrated by the first item of the evening sorabji is a philosopher with complete mastery of the original sources sorabji is hell sorabji is best known sorabji is virtually unknown to the vast majority of performers and listeners sorabji is a parsi recluse who has lived in dorset and devoted his life to composition despite near sorabji is part of an abiding interest in 20th sorabji is being introduced to the public for the first time sorabji is a milestone in the sorabji is a legendary composer of parsi and spanish sorabji is very good about flagging places where his own text interpretations are controversial; he supplies an excellent index locorum; and there is an sorabji is right and nous is not like the sense faculties in being receptive of form sorabji is stoic philosophy helpful as psychotherapy? sorabji is the extent to which the soul was material or immaterial without correlating it with the question of immortality sorabji is at his most difficult when his music is simplest on the page sorabji is more or sorabji is adjunct professor of philosophy and teaches a graduate seminar every spring semester sorabji is most curious and goes without explanation sorabji is complete without this set sorabji is a "maximalist sorabji is a legendary figure in music sorabji is not going to become a household name sorabji is director of the institute of classical studies and professor of ancient philosophy at king's college sorabji is tall and lanky sorabji is known for his sense of humour sorabji is professor of ancient philosophy in king's college london and the general editor of the project 'the ancient commentators on aristotle sorabji is arranging it sorabji is dead sorabji is due for release sorabji is right to say that the pain sorabji is a first class philosopher sorabji is trying to maintain that non sorabji is an expert member of the un sub commission on human rights sorabji is right to be puzzled; and it would be fair to suppose that aristotle’s opponents would be puzzled by aristotle’s remarks were aristotle to think sorabji is addressing and that leads him to claim that stoicism is sorabji is right in claiming that habit is not merely a mindless repetition sorabji is now??? ron hoffman still delivering mail sorabji is scheduled to be sorabji is not using this convention sorabji is one example www.googlism.com

asshat is going to convert this room into their apartment asshat is to me now asshat is probably 14 like phocus and i really asshat is somebody whos anus is large nuff to fit around a person's head down to their ears asshat is? asshat is taking his cut before it reaches the people who need it asshat is a cool word asshat is the only thing i loathe more than the writing of my classmates asshat is hard asshat is obviously too lazy to click on a goddamn link asshat is the best word ever asshat is the > best word ever asshat is trying to kill her

there are just as many CAians as there are TXans. nate, heather, platy, me tig, eri, splooge, sarah. sheila could tip the scales to ourside. you got a ping pong table tig? i think not. the choice would be clear.

If it's in CA, we can't go. We can't afford the trip. That's the part that sucks. I want to go all over and visit everyone, but we can't afford it. Hell, I haven't even made it out to Austin to see Sarah yet.

I have an idea...how about we meet up in Arizona and stay at J's place? :)

as long as it's not durring the summer. fukinghot

she's got a pool an A/C though! her hubby would probably run us out of there like bunch dry humping pre-teens he found in his tool shed.

We have pools and a/c AND two different bars within 200 feet of the apartment complex :p

uh, red flowery summer dress type thingy in the dream. but, uh, that doesn't matter. sorabjifest austin sounds good to me. i need my house to sell, but then, i'll probably have sold two books by the time sorabjifest comes around again.

we have a couple fans, a hose, and a place to stand around in. and no way.

you know, i'm usually not too hot for get-togethers, but the combination of a hose and a place to stand around in rocks the universe, particularly if i can hook the hose up to a water line and open it up in or near the place to stand around in. thanks for the invite--i'll be by in two shakes of a lamb's tail. or so. i'm sure we can have a great time with the hose even if it won't reach. should i pick up some shag carpet or anything en route? cold beverage? trash bags? muffin tins? potting soil? pillows? matches. that's it.

it'd be better if y'all went to patrick's place.

who you callin' y'all? i define singularity, mr. damn. just for that i won't bring matches. OR pillows. damn.

ahh--i just caught on (i pounded some sake earlier). you're trying to back out on the hose-and-the-place-to-stand-around-in promise. o-kay, then, big talker. i'll just mosey on down and we'll forget this discussion right now.

howzabout we just table it?

we just did. you are missing out on trash bag and shag carpet delivery, mind you. but we just dumped this discussion sur la table for eternity. i don't want to hear any more about it. the next time i think of this discussion, it had better be echoing off the curb of a void quite a distance away. in fact, if i were the type to say so, i'd continue on to something like: "and this is my last post on this thread. AND ONE MORE THING. this is my last--no, my LAST LAST LAST--post on this thread. WHY CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT! mark my words. MY WORDS. these are my final words. WORDS. I HEREBY DEFINE MY POSITION. THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER, dave. OVER. you dangled the hose and the fan and you COULDN'T FOLLOW UP. typical. you fan-owning hose shufflers are all alike. we've heard it all before, prometheus. or orpheus, or demetrius or porpoises. or whoever. PROMISES. PORPOISES. WHATEVER. I CAN LOOK UP YOUR IP ADDRESS. SO BACK OFF>!" but i might just have another drink and post a bunch of irrelevant crap whenever i get a moment free from the 24/7 fiesta of my life. because i'm good like that.

*whew* thanks, sweetie.

shaddup and drink yer beer.

gospel truth.

I thought that was your last post on this thread Jack :) I'm outa beer. Can I just drink my wine instead?

It's my house, too. Whatever Dave uninvites, I will officially undo. All are welcome at any time, as long as you don't stay for over a month with your three year old daughter who is borderline fetal alcohol syndrome. That was really mean. I think I'll leave it, though.

whoa. so, you do have a hose and a place to use it? and you, agatha, have title to the property? this sounds promising. i have several vehicles that will resell AT A VERY IMPRESSIVE PREMIUM, but i need a place to park and show them in washington state. would you like to get in on this action? i am sure that i need not emphasize the value of such transactions to worldly folks as yourselves. as a houseguest, i also feature a blistering knowledge of southeast asian cooking. du temps en temps. we will be in touch, kitten.

(shit)

When it gets hot here, we hook up this plant mister to the tap outside, run it up through the tree in the front yard and chill out underneath. Yeah. It thunderstormed tonight. It'll probably be smoky tomorrow.

relax, dear. i jest lightly with you sexy kittens and your fine domestic units and hope you find camaraderie or are mildly engaged. i sell all my weapons and vehicles overseas and i am not so silly as to advertise such sales on our pedestrian sites. please adjust the ottoman under your husband's calves, tolerate his repetition gently, and remind him to reciprocate this kindness. i toast your lovely family.

phô tai and a couple fresh spring rolls (pork only, no shrimp) with the dipping sauce actually sounds terrific right now. but, i think it'd be even better tomorrow. the ultimate hangover meal. i have to get up at 0530am tomorrow.

ai. happy weekend, da-veed. personally, i'm a taco shell.

jack's gettin all fucked up. *snicker*

jack passed through the perceptual dimension frequently recognized as "fucked up" many years ago, son.

you may have entered dimension fu but, clearly, you have not passed through it.

obviously, like any sensible person, i retain visitation privileges.

you guys are so cute i am so glad i don't smoke. really, i am. and i hate when people smoke within a few blocks of me and fuck up the air. unless i'm drunk and in a bar or something which hasn't happened in....well, ages. sewing stuff is fun shopping sucks. a lot. i can't believe there are posts with my name from years ago. it's funny to me how some of the the most animated board people are the most quiet in real life. what am i doing? rambling. why? hm. all i wanted my whole life was to be able to make out with my friends and have it not be a big deal for anyone. silly pisces. i hjaven't had anything to drink. i'm gonna leave that j right there. i really want to meet agatha.for real. if i never have a baby i'll be sad.

you can meet agatha any time you like as long as you meet her house rules as outlined above. and i'm sure you do. take a brief road trip. AND KICK DAVE.'S ASS FOR ME WHILE YOU'RE THERE. no, actually, just feed him a triscuit. you and agatha have plenty to keep you busy.

we do? what's that? why do you hate me, jack?

i gotta go now. for every wound, a beer. for every sorrow, a beer. for every storm, a beer. for every thirst, a beer. cheers!

and who the hell are you? i found a new bar i like.

whoops. if you and agatha have plenty to keep you busy (as i imagined, in an instant while reading your post, you would), only the two of you would know what that is. i like you perfectly well, heather. perhaps that post did not come across as lightly as i intended. my apologies for that and also if i have given a distasteful impression previously. i had no idea you had such an idea. er. revision: "you need not kick dave.'s ass for me while you're there. however, should you choose to take the agatha/dave. holiday weekend, you might need to distract him or he may begin to infringe on your 'meeting agatha' buzz. i would suggest something (perhaps brand-name snack crackers), but you'll surely recognize what works better than i can, from my impersonal internet distance. however, if all else fails, maybe try throwing on that new ween cd or (late in the evening) an old kyuss disc."

jack. you're projecting. sleep it off.

We have three cats, a dog, two hamsters, two fish, two daughters, three bedrooms, a few pools, a grill, and lots of fire wood. No place to stand around though, unless you want to stand outside. But then you are subject to insults being hurled at you by wandering idiots. Graham Central Station has every type of club in it you can think of, and right now they are looking for a wrestling card holder girl, so don't forget your big boobs, small bikini and baby oil. There is a plethora of rice and beans available for you non-meat eaters in the croud. I just bought LazerBlaster (old cult classic sci-fi). I will keep my political mouth shut if you do. In social situations, i become a shape in the shadow. Good times will be had by all.

oh, and lots of incense and candles. and if our pets are not enough, there are plenty of stray cats and a skunk that live outside as well.

You are welcome anytime, Heather. I have a cool old sewing machine, and you can help me to finish the mail art. We have a wide variety of animals available for petting, and a bakery down the street, and a charming daughter who will bend your ear for all of eternity. I need to arrange a room for Jack and Dave, however. It's clear that they need a little privacy for their male bonding ritual.

"All are welcome at any time, as long as you don't stay for over a month with your three year old daughter who is borderline fetal alcohol syndrome." I hope you were not referring to Mikayla. I really do.

i am sure she wasn't it sounds like she was referring to someone that already did that

k

God, no! I'm referring to an actual scenario. Does Mikayla have FAS? It doesn't seem possible that she could, from what I understand of the causes of FAS.

no, she is just VERY small, and a symptom of FAS is low birth weight. Sorry, I should not be so sensative

A lot of people look at Micki like something is wrong with her, cuz she is so small. I even found out that one of our neighbors thought we were neglecting her causing her to be so small, and concidered reporting us to CPS....heh...but now that they know us and know her it all makes sense (her being so tiny still). Sometimes we get defensive, cuz we go thru that with Hayley too. Hayley is just a total Mini-Me. She's 9, but the size of your average 5 year old and most people think she is younger, or somehow retarded because she is small........I'm small. It's just how it is. Everyone on my Mom's side of the family is small (though some are overweight, we are all still small). I often get mistaken for a kid myself (though it doesn't hurt my feelings any). I have learned how to be impressive and get respect when I need it. We just sometimes get sensitive about the girls, because they get such a hard time cuz of their size. I didn't think you were referring to us, though. That just doesn't seem like you.

Especially not Agatha:)

Oh, and Heather, I have 3 sewing machines. Maybe we could get together and get them all up and running well :) I have this thing where I start using a machine and it's almost a guarantee that I will do something stupid (like thread the bobbing wrong or something) and not be able to figure out what idiot thing I am doing that is messing up everything.

i wore a red knee length dress to the wedding and reunion and all hell did break loose. i really truly want to have the next sorabjifest at my new house. my new house is the bomb. we have a 4-seater hot tub and i can get a ping pong table real easy. texas is more central in this country than CA. i bet it's easier for everyone to get here than there.

oh, and i had a sorabji dream i wanted to write about. the dream happened about 2-3 weeks ago. we were all at nate's old house in the mountains. unfortunately that's about all i can remember of it now.

Sarah, I thought you were going to be gone longer. I don't know why. Are you taking another vacation again soon? Is my brain just fubared? Glad you made waves in the red dress!!! I otta go out there and bring you the summer dress I have for you.

I would vote for Sarah's house, sometime early spring or late fall next year.

I'm in for Sarah's house. I'll drag Spunky with me.

no way. i want to sit in dave's favorite chair for hours on end. i want the remote control. and i want to drink all his beer.

Can I bring my dog Sarah, Sarah? By the way, does anybody ever call you "Sarrie", like a diminutive form of Sarah? That's what I call my doggie. That and "tard dog" and "dumbass". My friend just found out her dog of 8 years has cancer. Without chemo, he's got like a month or two. With chemo, maybe a year, and it would be like $7000-8000. She's still deciding what to do.

speaking of dogs.... Wild Chihuahuas spared execution Sat Aug 9,12:14 AM ET By Howard Breuer LANCASTER, California (Reuters) - Nearly 170 wild Chihuahua dogs facing death at a Los Angeles-area animal shelter have been spared by a judge releasing them into the custody of actor Gregory Peck's former daughter-in-law, who runs a Chihuahua rescue operation. County animal control officers seized the feral dogs last November from a breeder in the desert town of Acton, north of Los Angeles, because of what a prosecutor referred to as "abominable" conditions. During the hearing on Friday, an animal control officer testified that the Chihuahuas had taken over breeder Emma Harter's house. They had burrowed holes into the walls and the furniture and left in their wake piles of dead chickens and geese and a two-inch (5 cm) thick layer of faeces on the carpeting. When Harter came out of her house to talk, "she was barefoot and had faeces all over her feet, and feathers," testified Los Angeles County Animal Control Lt. Sheri Koenig. "She smelled the same way" as the inside of her house. After the Chihuahua were rounded up, Harter was taken in for a psychiatric evaluation, Koenig added. In the county shelter, the purse-sized dogs have killed dogs from rival packs, sometimes by biting at their throats, Koenig said. Koenig and Kimi Peck testified that it was in the dogs' best interest to move them from the shelter to the facilities of breeders who can not only care for the dogs but tame them. "Over 400 people in the United States and Canada called, volunteering to take them," Peck said. "We're ready to go." She said she screened all of the volunteers and pared them down to a list of about 20 breeders who will each get a few of the dogs. "They'll all live their lives out happily ever after," said Peck, who said her pet Chihuahua recently died at age 22. The move will also relieve the county, which has so far incurred more than $500,000 in costs caring for the dogs, said Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Lisa M. Chung. Although the fate of the dogs was decided, the court still must decide what to do with Harter, 72, who is charged with two felony counts of animal cruelty and six misdemeanours, including battery on a peace officer for allegedly shoving Koenig. If convicted, she could receive up to 44 months behind bars, prosecutors said.

no, nobody calls me Sarrie, but i do get tard dog and dumbass. and yes, you can bring your dog Sarah. why don't we say first weekend of May 2004? everybody come in on April 30th and stay until... whenever you wake up sore, naked, and hungover.

I just wanted to say that I have developed an uncanny ability to sense when someone has just made a post. I will suddenly have a feeling that I must check these boards, and then I'll refresh the New Messages screen and see that someone has just made a post in the last minute, and that was the only recent post in an hour or something. It's pretty consistent.

how about when you don't have that feeling and you check the boards? notice any difference?

Mmmm....noooo, but I'll pay attention to how often there's a hit or a miss.

Ooh, it just happened. BTW, the clock is 1:02 off.

OK, yesterday I set up the experiment. I decided to use a 7-minute margin to account for clock differences. Of the nine times I checked the board yesterday, 7 of the times were within 7 (usually less) minutes of the last post. 2 times were misses. 7:2. That's pretty good. Last night I had a dream about Amelie -- we were at cafe with an ice cream parlor, and she ordered a dish of every kind of ice cream there was (to be cute, you know). Her boyfriend (not Nino from the movie) came up behind her and slapped her face and then kissed her cheek, I think to punish her for the waste of ice cream. She looked like a broken woman. Then there was something about Kevin Kline and my brother and me not wearing a shirt, but that's all fuzzy.

It's all fuzzy when you aren't wearing a shirt?

speak for yourself you hairy bastard

last night in my dream i was at patrick's house i didn't get to see eva but she was "there" i don't remember much. there was a lot of sadness. patrick was still married but living with sarah mclachlan. in know, weird. i was worried but then i was like, he'll be alright he's living with sarah mclachlan for god's sake.

yikes. i was definitely in some sort of 5th dimension for sure last night. but i think that had to do with the meds i played with. sorry to tool around in your dreamscape.

Last night I had a dream about a fox that was an incarnation of God. Or something. There was a fox and he could talk and I thought he was Jesus and I carried him around in my arms and we were on the run from a man and a woman who wanted the fox. I woke up with horrible cramps. Maybe my endorphins were responsible for the dream.

In some Asian folklore, the fox is a trickster spirit.

Over the weekend I had a strange dream about bugs (or something) crawling into my skin, which was mostly an annoyance, since it itched. But whenever one would start crawling in, I'd get some sort of weird mental message box alerting me to its presence. Like a cerebral error message. And also there was something about me and several others piloting large vehicles careening down an endless snowy slope that spiralled around a tall, narrow mountain. It wasn't scary or exciting. It was just what we were doing. There was an element of danger, since we could go sliding off the outer edge into the snowy otherness, sparsely punctured with the tips of pine trees. I knew it spiralled around this mountain because the slope was curving always to the left, but there was no evidence of further wrappings of the road below or above us.

Last night I had a dream that some girl would not stop kissing me. She was someone else's wife, and her husband was in the van with us, but he didn't seem to care. I woke up and my girlfriend's dog was licking my face. :)

AUUGHHH.

Last night I dreampt about these round little furry creatures that have no disconcerning features except for the fact that they had none and their fur was the general texture and same colors and patterns found in fake fur. They were video game creatures and they couldn't talk to you BUT they could pick things up for you and carry them around in their mouths (which they didn't have, it was like a mouthlike portal opened up and the little furball would surround the object as if it had a mouth) all around the room. You had to be really careful where you stodd where they were moving around because the whole room was a grid and they'd go pop pop pop from square to square and if you were in the way and they were carrying something sharp you would be cut. The thing about getting cut was that one moment you were fine, the next it was *pop* and you'd immedately have this gash that was already there, as if it had happened earlier or during the time within the pop that you didn't know existed. I think it was the time within the pop. Like the empty space in atoms.

we're there spinning crosses in the air? im really wanting a dream where there are dozens of spinning crosses all around me. or daggers, or shards of glass or some other pointed threatening symbolic object.

were, not we're.

We are there spinning crosses in the air.

Honey, just become a visionary mystic. You won't even have to be asleep to see them.

Lapis, your cute little things sound like Tribbles. Or Totorro.

I was thinking furbies, but tribbles sound accurate... they didn't multiply. Last night I dreampt (I"ve been sleeping on TBone's couch and couches always give me dreams) that my house is huge and has a clockwise downward waterslide going tthrough the middle. The rooms were big and there was a party going on. Everyone was getting drunk but nobody was drinking anything. one of my friends (Crystal) who doesn't drive was going to get in her car and drive home totally blitzed out of her skull. It was full of Zoobombers but I didn't know anyone who was there except Crystal and LBC (an actual Zoobomber). After Crystal left I was macking on LBC but I kept turning around and he'd be gone, only to be replaced by random stranger annoying guy, named Orion. Then my bike was stolen. It disppeared which was funny because why would anyone want a broken bike? Insane. What is my brain doing????? No spinning crosses in the air. That would be cool.

I had a weird, long dream that included Wisper last night. Rowlfe also made brief appearances. So, in my dream, there is this invite-only society called Naked People. It's not a nudist colony or anything. I think the name had more to do with people just being themselves. Anyway, Wisper invited me to come meet people and potentially become a member. . In the way of dreams, there were many strange things that didn't seem at all strange at the time. The places where these people gathered were huge, space-age bubble things. I understood that there were many of these in various places, but my dream experiences were limited to the bubble-structure that Wisper hosted me at. As we entered, a bubble-door-thing opened automatically for her and closed behind her. She had to say something to the door before it would open for me. . The people there were very cool. Generally very artistic, smart, and super friendly. I met several of them, but mostly just observed. People created impossibly large sculptures out of nothing. Groups of 3 or 4 people would be verbally collaberating on a poem or story; creating it there, out loud, without recording or writing it down. Lots of other things that I don't remember. . At first, Wisper was showing me around, but after a while she and Rowlfe got into some artistic process with some of the others there, and I continued wandering on my own. I saw hundreds of people, and everyone seemed to know that I was just a visitor, but they were all very welcoming, and would tell me about what they were doing or include me in their conversations. There was even what appeared to be an open sex-toy demonstration, and as odd as that seems now, it seemed just as interesting and appropriate as everything else going on there. . At one point I came upon a huge crowd that appeared to be listening to a speaker in the center. I couldn't hear or see the speaker, he seemed to be asking the crowd for a vote of yea or nay on a series of things. By this point, I understood that they had a sort of inside slang where "Up" was an affirmative and a three-syllable word that I can no longer remember was a negative. However, the roles of these words seemed reversed here. The crowd would happily cheer the three-syllable negative, but say "Up" with less volume and enthusiasm. At one point the nearest person to me whispered in my ear that they were voting on accepting various potential new people into the group, and that I was next. Everyone cheered the negative(all votes seemed completely unanimous), which meant that I was accepted. . Apparently I was now allowed to come and go as I pleased, which included living there exclusively if I so chose. Nothing was expected or required of me but to be myself. After this, they held a big celebration. Lots of dancing. . So yeah. Dreams of an exclusive utopia. Wisper and Rowlfe looked like real-life versions of the caricatures Wisper posted at some point.

i woke up from a dream this morning where cleo and i were walking along a steep-beached shoreline and this big polar bear/orca lunged out of the water and grabbed her. she got away and climbed back onto the shore, i was yelling at her to run but her water sandles were slipping around on her wet feet and she couldn't really move very well. she was freaking out because she could see it coming back for her. it grabbed her again and i jumped in the water after her but the orca bear just swam away into the depths with her, too fast for me to do anything about it. i woke up thoroughly bummed out.

sandals. dammit.

whoa T-babe, that's quite the dream. how wonderful :)

I had a really disturbing Sorabji dream this morning. Patrick and Sarah were in it, and maybe a couple of others. It's kind of fuzzy. Sarah and I were walking on a sidewalk near a park on the outskirts of a city, and this man that we both knew pulled up in his car along side of us. In the back of his car was a tiny baby in a car seat, maybe newborn-size. The man was a whiny jerk, and he guilted us into taking care of his baby. Sarah and I took turns trying to calm the crying baby by holding it and singing to it, but nothing worked. Then we went home with the baby, and Patrick was there, and all three of us tried to feed it with the nearly empty bottle of milk the stupid dad had given us. I was really angry with the guy for being such a horrible careless father. As the dream progressed, the baby got smaller and smaller. (I didn't notice this change in the dream -- it's only now that I'm awake that I remember the baby had started big and ended up tiny.) Something was seriously wrong with the left side of the baby's body, and its left arm (well, right arm, really -- it was my left as I looked at it) was deformed. The baby shrunk to fetus size and fit in the palm of my hand. The left arm was covered by paper-tissue-like skin that tore and revealed a sticky worm-like arm underneath. The sticky arm stuck to my hand and tore off, and in horror I showed Sarah that its arm was broken off from the shoulder. (The arm was about the diameter of a piece of angel-hair pasta.) Whatever progressive or regressive illness the baby had, the change overcame its face, so that its features were obscured by a thick film which I tried to wash off under the sink. It was too late, though -- the baby/zygote had died. Then I woke up. Yay.

Wow- you have Tool videos for dreams!

last night I dreamed I was having sex with a guy who consisted only of a lower half. That is to say, he ceased to exist from the waist up. I remember thinking, in the dream, while we were having sex, "This is weird." But I did it anyway.

Last night I dreamed I was hacking somebody up with piano wire.

I have real hate in me,hate I would like to act out in.But I can't,What's a mother to do?

Do you have a gamecube, J? If so, do you have Metroid Prime? It gives you a lot of ways to work out your bottled-up aggression. Also it's not all that complicated and the artwork is really nice. Well worth it if you can afford it. If not, I suggest mincing vegetables with a big fucking knife. Show them who's boss.

Tired,may i suggest you go to the hardwear store,buy a cheese wire,loop it around your neck,then pull real hard.

what? what the fuck?

...thats just me protecting my friends from verbal attack...cant have no one insulting J...(or yourself)

what verbal attack? read again

"fuck you and your horsecock gnawing peasantry." wanted: film at 11.

umm...im confoooosed! yeah heather..what verbal attack? did we miss something?? Im still trying to get a grip on this site... but, if you'll all adopt me, I think I'm here to stay!!! And im totally confoosed about Nate's last statement...but I liked it in my 'useless knowledge' brain sector for use at a later date ;-)

fuck you you ass

hmm.. i assume that wasnt aimed at moir?

you assume wrong, dear tripper clearly you haven't been paying much attention

Well...derr. I havent been to bed since yesterday... Ive only just found this site... Ive had too much coffee and not enough or anything else... so..umm.... give me a break bitch face :-)

daaaaaamn he said bitch face. maybe a visit to Abu Ghraib isnt in order.

HE?? HE??? what made you assume that i'm a mere male Patrick? Because I dont have a chat name like 'Bambi' or "Heather" or "Dumpling" does not mean that I am a man. :-) I am most definitely a woman... a hella hot one at that! hehehe.

bambi=heather=dumpling aw shit

Im only muckin' round :-)

Wakka Wakka Wakka!

I don't remember having any of the dreams I described in this thread. This morning, I had a dream which co-starred Droopy. The beginning doesn't make much sense -- something about a basketball game in a schoolyard, and then watching the news...then we became part of the news story. We were young, maybe in our teens, and we were walking through a field that had shoulder-high vegetation. We found a woman who had been riding her bicycle through this field, and it was she who was the focus of the news story. She had gotten into a collision on her bicycle in this field, and the force of the collision had knocked all of her prosthetic limbs off and one of her prosthetic eyes out. She was in good spirits despite all this, and stood astride her bicycle (on her phantom limbs? I don't know) while we helped her gather her limbs and eye. The limbs were incredibly life-like -- these were probably prototypes of some new evolution in prosthetics. The woman showed me how her left arm (artificial from the elbow down) hooked into her flesh, and how her flesh was red and irritated from the original injury that had cost her half her arm. Her other arm was fore-shortened, and her hand was where her elbow should be. The weird thing was, there were artifical heads stuck on her joints everywhere. The woman had her own real head, on which grew thick red hair, and all over her body were fake mannequin-like heads with red wigs on. The heads were there to cover the machinery of her limbs -- they were mechanized and ran on little engines. Droopy went off and searched around in the high weeds and found a big, brown '80s-era van (the kind that have curtains the back windows). Inside was the engine room for the woman's limbs, whirring away. Droopy then pushed a button, and a sunroof opened, and a little machine sent colored laser beams into the sky (like those "Lazer Led Zeppelin!!" laser shows your local planetarium might have had). The two of us stood by the bumper of the van with its back doors open, watching the lasers reflect on some storm clouds through the open sunroof for a while. And then I woke up.

WOW!, don't tell me that you took L.S.D.

My hippocampus manufactures its own LSD.

My rhinocampus started manufacturing meth, so I stopped donating to the alumni association.

You need to be careful when you withhold donations -- they have ways of extracting...ohhh, horrors.

spider's dream sounds like the ones i usually have. when i do dream at all and can remember them. the last dream i can remember: i am at an old broken-down dock or something - like the ones i would play around in rhode island. i'm not moving around or even have a sense of having a body, i'm just like the pov of a camera. i am looking at a pole sticking out of the ground at the edge of a cliff. i can't see it, but i know that the cliff is high and there are jagged rocks at the bottom. the pole is maybe 7 feet tall, and near the top it forks and curls out over the cliff, at the end of which is some kind of metal net. it looks like something off of a commercial fishing boat. there are two men with slavic accents there arguing with each other. one is daring the other to climb out and drop himself into the net. the other one doesn't want to, but the first man keeps taunting him. finally, the second man climbs onto the pole. i thought: i really hope this guy falls, just to prove some kind of point. the man gets to the net and drops in. the net bounces twice, then i get a flash of the rocks he would be falling down to, then the dream ends. what kind of drug is my hippycampus making?

I love this thread. For the record, the only people who have decided to meet me at my house so far have been Tbone, Cyst, and Swine. Heather, the invitation's still open, although I finally gave that sewing machine away.

Wow, I had narcissistically read back over only my own posts in this thread, and I totally missed those wonderful posts by Sarah about getting in control of your own body. Thanks, Sarah, eight years late, for writing all that. That's just what I needed to read right now.

Droopy, I don't know what kind of drug your grey matter secretes, but I bet it's a nice one.

Are we having a sleepover at Agatha's? We can eat s'mores and look at mailart! I haven't had a sorabji dream in awhile. Certainly nothing as vivid as Droopy's has crossed my brainpan lately.

I turn 40 on Wednesday. I am in a loud bar with friends all around but I sit gaping into this phone. How can I be 40 when I feel like such a boy? I say it does not matter much. the man at 40 differs none from the boy at 12. experiences pile on but nothing changes. looking up, looking down, the circle of influence is looking at me thinking what the fuck is he for 6 hours pecking into his phone? I dream about command line glories and impossible perl modules. I dreamed last week about a perl module that bridged the gap between tail -f access_log and my brain. I could monitor web traffic all the time anywhere I stood or any which way I looked. I had a few dreams about panic and dying, but those are just daydreams.

happy birthday, mark

And happy birthday, Droopy.

wisper, if you think today is mark thomas birthday? his B-day is Jan 30 , not 26th

I thought it was Dec 25th...

i just went to a friend's 40th bday party. his new wife rented a pontoon boat for 2 hours on Lady Bird Lake (formerly known as Town Lake). it was a beautiful day, and a tame party touted to be a booze cruise. everyone was drinking water and soda. all of the guests are not far behind the birthday boy, yet senor and i were the only people there who had kids. but anyway, the birthday boy noted to me that he doesn't mind looking his age, as long as he doesn't feel his age. 40 may seem like a big number, or at least a milestone, but it doesn't really mean anything. i think 45 would seem more daunting. 25 more than 30. 35 more than 40. 45 more than 50. and so on. um, but yeah, happy birthday mark.

oh, and thanks, Spider. had to go back and read some of that stuff to know what you were talking about. OH to be that ripped again! to be so passionate about body building! funny too. i had just started working with a trainer and getting back into serious body building and a month later discovered i was pregnant. i went to the gym and lifted weights 2-4 days a week all during my pregnancy except the last 3 weeks. now i'm 25-30 lbs overweight and will spend the rest of the year getting it off. and as soon as i do, i'm going to get knocked up again!

Antigone, I know his biography. It is on his website.

i look back and think "oh to be that ripped again!" but it means something different. i haven't had a sip of alcohol in months and months. i think the x5s are more daunting than the x0s because you've gotten used to being the prior x0 and now you're seeing you're on the road to the next x0. fucking x0s.

You talkin bout hugznkissez?

Executive officers?

at 41, i don't really remember any of my (algebraic variable x)5s. i don't know where the hell i was when i was 25. the day i turned 30 i was lying in a hospital bed; i got a card from the nurses. 35 doesn't seem worth remembering. when i turned 40 last year, a friend took me to see an exhibit of plastinated dead bodies in dallas. for my 41st birthday i told everybody i know that all i want is music. i even sent out a list: ornette coleman, eric dolphy, tom waits, etc. the day of my birthday i got a couple of shirts, a book i'll never read, a non-working watch, and not a note of music.

i had this dream that i was living a life. it wasn't a particularly good or bad dream, and that was that. then i woke up and there was nothing, and now i am very very sad.

When she sleeps, her lips make faint motions of sucking, and her eyes wander back and forth beneath her eye lids. Her breath heaves and flutters and sighs. She rarely cries. When she’s fussy, she is easily soothed by a diaper change, a meal, or a walk around the house or outside while I ride her around in a sling, the cool wind on her forehead. She smiles with her whole body. It starts in the eyes, travels to the mouth and lips, and ends with a fully body gyration in glee. Her lips are full and tender and perfect. Her face is slender and her features are soft and feminine. These are the joys, the perfections, of life, of new life, that are impossible to explain.

Ain't it just like the night to play tricks when you're tryin' to be so quiet? We sit here stranded, though we're all doin' our best to deny it And Louise holds a handful of rain, temptin' you to defy it Lights flicker from the opposite loft In this room the heat pipes just cough The country music station plays soft But there's nothing, really nothing to turn off Just Louise and her lover so entwined And these visions of Johanna that conquer my mind In the empty lot where the ladies play blindman's bluff with the key chain And the all-night girls they whisper of escapades out on the "D" train We can hear the night watchman click his flashlight Ask himself if it's him or them that's really insane Louise, she's all right, she's just near She's delicate and seems like the mirror But she just makes it all too concise and too clear That Johanna's not here The ghost of 'lectricity howls in the bones of her face Where these visions of Johanna have now taken my place Now, little boy lost, he takes himself so seriously He brags of his misery, he likes to live dangerously And when bringing her name up He speaks of a farewell kiss to me He's sure got a lotta gall to be so useless and all Muttering small talk at the wall while I'm in the hall How can I explain? Oh, it's so hard to get on And these visions of Johanna, they kept me up past the dawn Inside the museums, Infinity goes up on trial Voices echo this is what salvation must be like after a while But Mona Lisa musta had the highway blues You can tell by the way she smiles See the primitive wallflower freeze When the jelly-faced women all sneeze Hear the one with the mustache say, "Jeeze I can't find my knees" Oh, jewels and binoculars hang from the head of the mule But these visions of Johanna, they make it all seem so cruel The peddler now speaks to the countess who's pretending to care for him Sayin', "Name me someone that's not a parasite and I'll go out and say a prayer for him" But like Louise always says "Ya can't look at much, can ya man?" As she, herself, prepares for him And Madonna, she still has not showed We see this empty cage now corrode Where her cape of the stage once had flowed The fiddler, he now steps to the road He writes everything's been returned which was 0wed On the back of the fish truck that loads While my conscience explodes The harmonicas play the skeleton keys and the rain And these visions of Johanna are now all that remain

last night i had a dream about Sem. i'm not too clear about it, but basically i was trying to strike up conversation, and at each attempt he told me, "we've already talked about that." what he said seemed legit and i felt embarrassed.