british man fired for smoking at home. "We see this as moving towards an Americanised state of discrimination. We know of cases in the US where employees have been breathalysed when they got to work." --The freedom organisation for the right to enjoy smoking tobacco (Forest) really?

i've never heard of such a thing. Working for Glaxo Smith Kline at their research facility in NC...the entire campus had a no smoking rule. This meant no smoking in your car, no smoking driving down the parkway on your way out the security gates, no smoking in the garages....or anywhere on Glaxo property. And the gustapo-esq security would cite you for it and notify your boss. So you had to get in your car and drive at least a half a mile from my bldg, off campus to smoke.

Damn,next we'll have to wear little ciggarette insigna on our sleeves.

Shhh!!! The Health Police are everywhere.

Hey, at least you don't have to worry about being stuck in an oven after they stick you in the camps.

Smokers camp? A special place,just for us? I'm gonna ask my mom if I can go!

No hon,then they'll gas us.

Why we do it for ourselves... Personally... I smoke, and its bullshit. The car thing, technically thats violating the law. The United States Supreme court states that you can no longer have your car searched without a warrent because it is considered your property much like your house is, and why do you lose your right to be protected from illigal search and sesiure when you leave your house and get into your car. There for if your car is on the "campus" then you in your property fuck them. Assholes... I swear I'm going to create a resturant that is smokers only, and if you don't smoke GET THE FUCK OUT.

And what will that prove?

There are lots of smoking bars up here--I think the law says something along the lines of "you can't expose your employees to smoke, but if you own the bar and work it, then we don't care." They make a big point of being smoking bars. Which I'm A-OK with. I just don't go to them. I hate whiny nonsmokers. If you have a problem with smoke, you can always leave. Except in public buildings--say, you have to go to court, I think the nonsmoking rule is ok; you aren't choosing to go to court.

I love it when non-smokers complain about the smokers taking breaks. If it wasn't for the non-smokers who complained about the smokers in the offices there would be no smokers taking breaks in the first place. Besides the non-smokers take their breaks at the coffe machine. I have a great solution. Any time a non-smoker complains about smokers breaks reinstitute smoking at the work stations. Unless required by law. An employer could then say he conducted a poll of employees and found that the non-smokers of the company preferred to allow smoking on the property. Any non-smokers who didn't like it could take five minuet fresh air breaks. I wonder how many would do this in a February blizzard?

I have a gross smoking story: We have this patient,who come frequently from the nursing home.He has this REALLY MAJOR SNOT PROBLEM.[he can't help it,he's really confused,and I like him,he's nice] Anyway,when we take them out to smoke,he smokes 2 ciggs at the same time,but the gross part is that while he is sitting there smoking,he has giant tentacles of snot that literally hang from each nostril and touch the ground. Its really horrible to see,and when you wipe it away,he just makes more.Its really disgusting.But he doesn't seem to mind.Its so gross,that everyone trys to avert their eyes,but its like you just have to peek,to see if its there,and then get grossed out again. I feel sorry for him.

Hang things from them... That is the only reasonable solution I can come up with... Snot and smoking have nothing in common.

the smoking laws here have gone crazy. There are no longer smoking and non-smoking sections in restaurants. The only way you can have a smoking section is to build a glass wall around a set of tables and have a totally seperate vent system installed. They look like fish tanks. You can't even smoke on the patios of some bars now. The only way that a bar in Toronto can allow smoking is if it has a pool table, in which case it's considered a pool hall, which you can smoke in. Outside Toronto, most places have to choose to be either 100% smoking or 100% non, and businesses are dying because of it. In Ottawa and Vancouver, and most of B.C. you can't smoke anywhere, ever, not even outside. It's utter bullshit. It reminds me of something Bill Hicks said: "I've got some shocking news for you people....are you ready??? Okay, hold on, here it is: Non-smokers die ...every day. I know it's hard to believe, but it's true. You will all die too. ALL of you" of course non of this matters to me because i haven't had a smoke for a month now!!! I AM IN HELL

Hell is only one of many terms for Canada.

Missoula has outlawed smoking in restaraurants, public buildings, etc. But you can smoke in bars. I'm against it even though smoke really bothers me (hurts my eyes). There are always places that choose not to allow smoking, and I'd be happy to go to those places. The establishments should make that choice, not the government. If I don't like the smoke, I won't go there. I hate the steady heaping of laws that take rights/choices away.

See and that one city ordinance, has ruined some of the businesses in Missoula. Businesses who essentially catered to smokers because thats where smokers hung out. No longer and a few went under because their main income was smokers. Oh well, life goes on.

Now, I haven't heard that it's ruined anyone. Do you stop eating out because you can't smoke?

"I hate the steady heaping of laws that take rights/choices away." i can't choose to shoot you in the face. goddamn laws.

Actually there are a few places over on brooks that went out of business because of it. People who smoke don't necissarially go to a resturant to eat smoke and leave. People go hang out talk have a good time, and when you take out something they enjoy they quit going there. I use to hang out at 4B's in billings, and drink butt loads of coffee smoke and talk with people, and normally I wouldn't order food there because I wasn't a huge fan of the food. BUT because I was there and they served food when I got hungry I ate some.

you know....as someone who has lived in a city/state that was one of the first to ban smoking all together...let me address this. there was a lot of stink about it for the first year. many bars had signs that read "my bar, my customers" meaning that bars wanted the right to choose, not have the state choose for them. thats the crux of the matter. thats the philisophical problem i have with this. a slice of independence and free thinking taken away from private business owners. where i can smoke isnt. People don't quit going to bars when they ban smoking. Thats a bunch of poop. No bars in my hood went out of business and it wasnt a problem statewide. The problem is, this initive was pushed on by people...generally speaking...who go to bars once every 2 months. Generally speaking, regulars who patronize bars once, twice a week tend to be smokers, and those regulars who don't smoke have always dealt with the smoke. People here have adjusted fine after three years. Many bars get away with it, some do get cited, some smokers get cited too. Many bars have patios, and many bars simply have you stand out front. As a smoker...i dont care anymore. Its not a big deal. so shut yer bitching, you'll get over it.

I wouldnt go into a bar or a rest. if I couldnt smoke. I feel that it's my right to smoke and eventually kill myself in the process. People treat cigarettes like they are some kind of drug and in reality, if second hand smoke really hurt people as bad as they say, they would make them illegal. I think it's a persons right to smoke but I also think non smokers have a right to not be subjected to it so I guess thats why they made smoking and non smoking sections in food establishments. I could never sit in a bar and drink and not be able to smoke. I would simply not go. Hal, I sent you an e-mail.

its a dumbass point of view to think your smoke doesnt affect others. Im a smoker and i know that. Its not your right to smoke in a private establishment.

I don't go where I can't smoke either,and I just hate it when non-smokers who can't wait for a table in the non-smoking section,come in and have the gall to complain about the smoke.A party of 4 did that once when I was at a resturant,I made a scene,they left.

I didnt say that my smoke doesnt affect others Patty. I said if it was THAT bad, they would make cigarette sales illegal. Just like weed. "I think it's a persons right to smoke but I also think non smokers have a right to not be subjected to it so I guess thats why they made smoking and non smoking sections in food establishments. I could never sit in a bar and drink and not be able to smoke. I would simply not go." Notice the part about "but I also think non smokers have a right to not be subjected to it" Read more carefully next time, dumbass.

weed is not illegal because the smoke is THAT bad genius second hand smoke is worse because its unfiltered, where as the smoke you inhale is filtered. it is as bad as they say, and making it legal or illegal has nothing to do that.

Actaully he's right, second hand smoke is more dangerous then smoking itself. But the question is, why should someone who goes to the bar to enjoy themselves, someone who smokes I might add be forced to go outside and smoke? I know plenty of people who don't smoke and go to the bar, its something you deal with, just like having to deal with the drunk beligerent asshole who won't leave you alone. As for resturants, give them the choice. I mean shit she's right, if I'm sitting in a resturant smoking after a good meal, and someone who isn't a smoker and is sitting in the smoking section tells me its bothering them, I tell them its killing me and to shut the fuck up and leave if it bothers them so much, and next time don't sit in the smoking section. Why do people feel the need to tell smokers that they are commiting some act of treason or something, I enjoy smoking and you know what any asshole who tells me its bad for me will be declared a master of the obvious and told to go fuck themselves.

"But the question is, why should someone who goes to the bar to enjoy themselves, someone who smokes I might add be forced to go outside and smoke?" you guys arent making intelligent arguments for smokers. its not your bar hal. if i dont want you smoking in my bar, you'll go outside if its my policy. you guys are missing the point. you dont have a right to smoke in a private establishment. this matter is about laisse faire (sp?). a private business should be able to decide for themselves. thats the point. the effects are second hand smoke are documented. smoking sections and non smoking sections arent really effective. people are in charge of their destiny when it comes to patronizing smoking OR non smoking establishments.

That is the point I'm trying to make I'm just not doing it very well... The establishment should be able to decide smoking or non... Not the goverment.

I want the right to drink in a bar and smoke and I want the right to smoke after a eating a good meal. I dont think anyone has the right to take that away from me especially when it is something you can buy right over the counter at your local convenience store. Everything with you has to be an argument Patty. God forbid someone just gives their opinion about something that doesnt resemble your opinion. I didnt post today looking for an argument. I posted my opinion and yet again you were your usual dick head self. Here's one for ya genius...being that we all know how bad cigarette smoke is for smokers and non- smokers, why is it still legal to buy cigarettes? Personally I dont give a fuck either way because here in Florida, I can still smoke in the bars and restaurants. And if a non-smoker decides to sit in the smoking section and complains about the smoke, than get the fuck out.

\ "I want the right to drink in a bar and smoke and I want the right to smoke after a eating a good meal. I dont think anyone has the right to take that away from me especially when it is something you can buy right over the counter at your local convenience store." you seemed to be confused on what is a "right" and what is a "privilege". you have a "right" to smoke. you dont have a "right" to smoke on private property. a resturant or bar is private property. the only way to get such rights is to buy your own bar and resturant. You don't have a "right" to be served pork in a jewish resturant anymore than you have a right to smoke in one. Ever see those signs in business that say "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" ??? "why is it still legal to buy cigarettes?" well if you knew anything about history, which you've made it clear in the past you dont care to learn from history, you would know that prohibition of such items doesnt work. Further, you would also know that our government is not merely in the business of protecting us. Otherwise a lot of things would not be in use. They learned after prohibition that rather than ban such things as smoking or drinking...tax them and use them as a cash cow. Also the tobaccoo lobby is huge and powerful.

Yeah they could try and outlaw smoking, and then the goverment would crumble and die... The Tobacco lobbyists are almost as powerful in shaping our goverment as the christian coalittion is, and lets not even go into that debate.

I wasnt even saying anything about private property and all that shit!!! I was simply saying that if I cant smoke in a restaurant or a bar, than I just wont go!! Dude, you make mountains out of mole hills. You need to relax a little Patty. Your right, history dont concern me much but if they made ALL drugs legal, than your so called corrupt gov't could use that for cash cows also. And it is NOT a privelege to smoke. It IS my right being that I am over the age of 18. Like I said, here in Florida I can smoke in bars and restaurants so it's far from being a privelege. It's up to bars and restaurants to decide whether to allow smoking or not but I would no longer be a customer if my bar went to a non smoking establishment. And dont tell me that when Cali passed the no smoking in bars and all that shit that the owners didnt lose money because they very well did.

I simply do not go to establishments where I can't smoke. Therefore,if it was previously a smoking establishment,they have lost any revenue previously generated from my patronage. I think it is safe to assume,that many smokers do not patronize non-smoking establishments,therefore those establishments have indeed lost revenues previously obtained from smoking customers. This should not be a hard concept for anyone to grasp. Smoking IS a nasty and unhealthy habit.I think all of us smokers are well aware of that fact.I don't know any smokers who would jump and say,"smoking is a good thing!" We know its not.But we are addicted.This is due to the tobacco industry. NEVER UNDER ESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE TOBACCO INDUSTRY. They are an extremely powerful,and not particularily ethical lot.They would not have survived this long,were they not an extremely strong coalition. Never has an industry killed so many,and been reprimanded so lightly.Look at Firestone.Then look at the tobacco industry. These people are dangerous.

"I think it is safe to assume,that many smokers do not patronize non-smoking establishments" Not at all. Like i said, in CA where you technically cant smoke in any bar or resturant its pretty much business as usual. I dont mind going outside. "But we are addicted.This is due to the tobacco industry" I don't buy that. No one is to blame for their addiction other than the smoker himself.

The fact that the tobacco companys add "extra ingredients" to their tobacco products,to make them more addictive,is pertinent. I agree,that we are ultimately responsible for our own addictions.But I feel very strongly,that it is reprehensible,that the tobacco producers are doing this,with the idea of xtra bucks in mind.Oh,and the fact that they add that "little sometin' extra" to their product,to keep them burning,instead of going out,when left in an ashtray,so we have to buy more,isn't what I would consider a thoughtful gesture,either. These people do not have OUR best interests at heart,don't kid yourself.

I don't go to resturants. Nor do I spend much time hanging out in malls any more. Because the government decided to ban smoking there. Here in Maryland the history is interesting. The mall management companies went to the county governments and asked them to ban smoking because when they did it on an individual basis they lost business. The smokers said "if you don't want my smoke - you won't get my money". Of course then the malls that allowed smoking were threatend by anti-smoking groups with boycotts and picketing. They should have checked the cash registers before caving. Also, the "Law" in Maryland that bans smoking in the workplace isn't actually a law. The governor couldn't get the legislature to pass one. So he appointed a health secretary who created a regulation. Isn't representative government grand. One final thing, the reason second hand smoke is concidered dangerous is because the EPA changed the requirements just for tobacco smoke. Political correctness rules.

last summer i sat on the wall in frond of the library, knitting, a man walked up. "mind if i smoke?" "mind if i cough?" was my reply. being a non-smoker, i prefer not to be around heavy smokers. no clouds. several of my roomies smoke, but they do it outside where the scent diffuses quickly due to weather. i think bars should have the right to choose whether or not they'll allow smoking. most restaurants should not allow smoking inside because smoke can ruin the taste of the food. i'm not going to say that smoking is evil and we should outlaw it, because many find the habit at least mildly pleasureable and as long as they know what they're doing to their bodies with those things, there's nothing i can do personally. everyone's taught that drugs are bad, and drugs are illegal, but people still use them. if you don't want people to smoke, educate them and offer alternatives. plain and simple. don't just say "smoking is bad" and walk away.

It goes the other way with places that choose to be smoke-free too. I generally don't go to places where one can smoke because I don't like it. (not because I think it's evil or anything) It's strange how smokers get so worked up about their right and privelage to smoke. Or how non-smokers can get so worked up about their "right to breathe clean air" in a bar. I agree that one has little room to complain if they sit in the smoking section, but I was told to "fuck off" once after I coughed (honest, involountary coughs)when someone blew smoke in my face as I walked by. As long as the smokers and non-smokers alike can refrian from being assholes, we can all get along. Cigarette smoke often smells very bad to nonsmokers. Please try to remember that we aren't ALL being pansy whiners. It can be extremely unpleasant. Not a lot of smokers want to believe that for some reason. I'm tired of people using the law to push their preferences on others... People who don't like smoke in bars... People who don't like skaters downtown... People who don't like seeing naked people in public parks... People who don't like being shot in the face... When will it stop?

if some bitchass is gonna lecture me about dirting up their air...i expect them to flag down every black-smoke farting truck and car that passes by and give them shit too. don't you think if there was such a demand for non-smoking bars and resturants they would have been established and successful by now instead of being forced to by law?

I just read in the Washington Post today that in Montgomery County Maryland they have banned smoking in your house if the neighbors can smell it.

i cant imagine that will last long. thats absolutely beyond ridiculous.

But, you're talking about Maryland. Of course it's rediculous. We have a one party state. Anything the liberal democrats want they get. We had a patition drive to have a gay rights bill (passed by the legislature) placed on the next November ballot. I just read this morning the group that sponcered the drive is nagotiating (I know that's spelled wrong) with the ACLU who sued to keep it off the ballot. So much for the democratic process and the will of the people.

I was under the impression that there WERE some (few) successful smokeless bars and I know there were certainly successful smokeless restaurants. But I don't think there's really a huge market for it. Especially with bars. People who don't like smoke generally just don't go to bars, or so it seems. So I can't imagine why they'd feel the need to ban it there.

"when someone blew smoke in my face as I walked by." Hmmm... If someone walked by me and blew smoke in my face on purpose, I'd probably hold them down for around 15 seconds with my hands over their mouth and nose. Try that next time, TBone. "if some bitchass is gonna lecture me about dirting up their air...i expect them to flag down every black-smoke farting truck and car that passes by and give them shit too. " Come now, be practical. Cars move. Fast. It's kinda hard to catch them sometimes. But, there are laws for controlling auto pollution, ya know. Tickets can be given, etc. And, as far as fucking with other people's air quality, I have a right to fart profusely in restaurants and bars, but do I? No. Well, not much.

even though George Will is generally an ultra conservative assmonkey he made a decent point about the MD issue. HE akinned them to the Taliban in this regard. Since when do we have the right NOT to be annoyed? "Whats next.." he said, "your neighbors find the smell of your garlic sauce annoying, therefor its illegal?"