"Oh you who believe, bear patiently, and encourage patience [endure], and do ribaat (guarding borders), and fear Allah, so that you may be successful" Oh Muslim Brothers In The Lands Of The Muslims, And In Everywhere On Earth. Assalamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh, The Islamic nation, for nearly a year, has been subject to the most severe consolidated attack from our enemies, who want us to abandon and sacrifice our religion and to abandon ruling by the heavenly Shariah, which Allah has honored us with. The enemies of this Ummah have realized that abiding by our religion is the reason that the Muslims gain glory and honor and it is what protects us from decline and abiding by Islam is what raises our status amongst the nations. The war that America has led against our lands is only a part of the war against Islam. Verily America, when it declared war against Afghanistan, wanted primarily to remove the Islamic system and the ruling of the Islamic Shariah and the prevention of the revival of the Islamic religion that it is afraid of. And considering America has made the September 11th attacks a pretext to attack the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and declare war against Muslims, we know that this is not the sole reason for we know that America wanted to attack us and destabilize and remove the Islamic Emirate long before that. They tried gathering justifications for these attacks and if they did not find September 11th to use as an excuse then America would have found other than one! And had America not had this clear intention and firm cause, then it would have not declared a war upon us that even they themselves are not sure who was behind, until now. The priority for America after September 11th was to take account of itself, to revise its policies, to realize its mistakes, to change the way it treats the Muslims and other weak nations of the world and for America to ask what made it prone to these bombings on September 11th? And what caused that small group of people to sacrifice their entire lives to attack America and harm us? Why did they gain the enmity of the Islamic world? Why did the weak ones of this world become pleased at these events? Why were they against us? If America asks itself these questions, then it would have blamed its policies and actions, and it would have cared and reformed its condition. But America doesn't want that, it wants supremacy, power and control of the world and America cannot ask itself these questions because it is dependent upon the Jews and Zionists who control and rule it. And we and the entire world know that what happened to America on September 11th is a harvest of what was planted around the world through oppression, the raping of wealth, flaunting arrogance over the weak, and robbing them of their necessities and rights, under what it calls the "world order" and "globalization" and other terms. And our Islamic Ummah has suffered the full portion of American oppression, in Palestine, Iraq, Sudan, Kashmir, Afghanistan and in all the lands of the Muslims. The oppression and force which the Muslims suffer from in Palestine at the hands of the Israeli Jews every day, and the killing, injuring, expulsion and embargos - all of this, is done with complete support of America, under its care and direction. For it is America that feeds Israel and strengthens it with wealth and weaponry, and strengthens it politically so that it may punish the Muslim nation in Palestine and occupy it and enslave its people. America is a large country, but it is small in mind and proud, and it is strong with its planes and bombs and machines, but weak in its existence. It claims to be the Mother of freedom and justice, yet it commits the most extreme forms of injustice and enslavement upon the nations. It claims that to be fighting terrorism and yet it is the one who practices the most extreme terrorism upon the weak nations of Palestine, Kashmir, Afghanistan and upon many of the world’s nations. Thankfully, the world today has become upon more awareness of America. Where was what America proclaims – humanity, brotherhood, respect of ones rights - at the massacre of Maza Sharif that killed with its bombs thousands of prisoners, and those who were given amnesty in the fortress of Jahaathaji? Where is the humanity they claim when they refuse to treat imprisoned enemies appropriately as war prisoners?! People know today that America is the capital of international terrorism, and it is the shepherd of oppression, enslavement and injustice, and it is the shepherd of moral and social corruption in the world. It is the reason for the poverty and suffering of the nations, and what America gets today, of hatred and dislike, and condemnation, is proof of all this. And America today in Afghanistan fantasizes with pride the apparent power here and thinks that her fate will be different than those invaders who came before it and that it is capable of fulfilling what Russia couldn't fulfill. It assumes they can establish themselves easily in Afghanistan and that they will be able to control half of the eastern world from here, but unfortunately for them, they did not read the history of Afghanistan well, because it does not care about history and the conditions of the weak and poor nations. If they read the history of Afghanistan, then they would have known that Afghanistan crushes the foreigner and invader from the day we knew Islam and entered it with faith and certainty, and that we cannot be at rest, nor submit to other than Islam, and never to those who rule by other than the Shariah of Islam. And we have said to our Ummah, and we still say, that we are holding firmly unto the promise of Allah, and we are sure of it, and we are not afraid of the promises of Bush and America, verily Allah promised us victory and establishment if we hold firmly unto our religion and rely upon Him. So we are remaining upon the path of Jihad against America and all the invaders, relying upon Allah, patient to His orders and certain of them. We assure the Muslims everywhere, that we remain upon the covenant of Allah and that victory is coming, and that comfort will come, and after relying upon Allah, then we of course are in need of the support of the Muslims to stand with us in any and every manner. And if Allah wills, the rule of the Shariah will return to Afghanistan and Muslims will be happy with the victory of Allah, and America will not be pleased in Afghanistan, and will never be comfortable until it leaves ashamed and regretful, and its day will never be with it, ever. "And on that day, the believers will rejoice with the victory of Allah" Wassalam, The Servant of Islam and the Muslims, Mullah Muhammed 'Umar Mujaahid.

What a fuckin' joke. It is exactly that fine display of ignorance, approval, and lack of compassion for 9/11 that will allow your days to be numbered. Your muslim nations are weak because of your own doings. Your incompetence and failure to run a prosperous nation is what has failed you and yours so you come here to America and inflict heart ache and pain to try and justify your pathetic failures. Yet you all flock here like flies on shit with all your allah crap and expect us to kiss your fuckin' asses. Aint gonna fuckin' happen pal. "the massacre of Maza Sharif that killed with its bombs thousands of prisoners, and those who were given amnesty in the fortress of Jahaathaji? Where is the humanity they claim when they refuse to treat imprisoned enemies appropriately as war prisoners?!" Are you fuckin' kidding me? maza sharif and all the rest deserves what has happened and all that will happen and as far as I'm concerned, all those mother fuckin' prisoners can rot and become rat bait. A very large gas chamber would be appropriate also. "allah promised us victory and establishment if we hold firmly unto our religion and rely upon Him. So we are remaining upon the path of Jihad against America and all the invaders, relying upon Allah, patient to His orders and certain of them. We assure the Muslims everywhere, that we remain upon the covenant of Allah and that victory is coming, and that comfort will come, and after relying upon Allah, then we of course are in need of the support of the Muslims to stand with us in any and every manner." You can take your meaningless promises from your fuckin' allah and shove them right up your ass along with all your shariah, jihad, ummah, and false hopes of victory for it will be you and yours who will be crushed. Your doubt will be your downfall. How dare you come here and preach your evil ways, your evil religion, and your evil beliefs. May GOD rest your soul, mother fucker.

and yours.

yours too, dave..

i don't have a soul.

There's a news flash.

what exactly is a news flash? i know what news is and i know what a flash is. news doesn't flash.

I dunno. Perhaps the educated and intelligent can help answer that for you.

perhaps.

or perhaps not, souless boy.

we'll just have to wait and see. . .

Oh the anticipation.

they say 'news flash' comes from the act of interrupting something else (tv, radio) to tell breaking news thank you you're welcome

so it flashes? there's a detectable luminosity in the visible spectrum? would a news flash expose photo-sensitive materials in an otherwise dark room?

there would not be any actual 'flashing' of the lighted variety. the luminosity is of the more elusive, mentally or emotionally enlightening kind, "to shed light on," as it were. your photo-sensitive materials are safe. but if you were really worried you should turn the lights off, too.

dani a spokeswoman and stateswoman you arent. just let freedom ring instead.

Mullah you piece of camel dung,it's people like you that made people like me,that normally would have worn tennis shoes to the airport last May have to wear high heels,so that if any of you cowardly little bastards tried your fucking jihad bullshit I could take it off and put your fucking eyes out.Who wants to be a spokeswoman or stateswoman? Dani was just addressing his post and it sounded damn good to me.

First, Dani, J, it appears this post was made by Trace. Or some other schmuck within "Air Force Command" based on their IP address. Second, these are words of a one-eyed fanatical Muslim cleric. Its OBVIOUS they are wack. Its a given that Mullah Omar is a fucking nutball. He was the leader of the Taliban. Duh! Therefor you'd only have one eye to take out with your heels J. The rabid posts just sound silly. I suppose trace is getting a boner as you and dani took his bait.

I thought the same, J. I would love to see you poke an eye out with your heel.... :-)

Thanks Trace,it's pretty sad that we even have to think that way,but the world is different now.

I was not baiting, damnit. I was sharing the crap I found here

Lord knows my twig and (now) berry were excited.

It does not matter who or what posted that. Filth like that should not be posted here for any reason what so ever. I dont see 1 single sane reason for anyone even wanting to post shit like that. Bait or no bait, I would never assume the identity of that fucker and share those sick statements with anyone at anywhere at anytime. When I looked at the IP I kinda figured it was someone that posts here but I would have never ever in a million years guessed it would have been a regular to this site. Do you feel any shame? Are you proud of posting something like that? Did you not say that it was actually you because you believe what you posted? That was a huge slap in the face for the Americans that are regulars here and a simple shame on you dont even come close to how I feel. It dont take a spokeswoman or a stateswoman to reply to such an offensive statement in any way I see fit. Being phoney and trying to come across as being something I'm not aint my thing...that's your department Patty. I'm fuckin' sickened that such a vile thing was posted and the disappointment that I feel right this second is undescribable. And to think that I just posted the other day saying how nice it was that most of you are such caring and supportive people. I know that you dont give two fucks how I think of you so dont worry about pointing that out. In some odd strange reason, I have always kinda looked up to most of you and respected your opinions and views and thats why I am so shocked at all of this. Just when I thought people couldnt go any lower....

to get your tits in a tangle (as J would say) over that is a bit overreactive no? Its not a slap in the face to dis 'merican to see that nonsense posted here. Its just words on the internet. Please. Why act like that crap is any different. In otherwords Dani, you are only letting "them" win by acting like it even bothers you are you not? Your skin is thicker than that....your mind a bit smarter no? Of course its nonsense, look at the source. Why is that a slap in the face? "Being phoney and trying to come across as being something I'm not aint my thing...that's your department Patty." What are you talking about Dani? Shit i would love it if the Omar and his fanatical wizards started posting here on sorabji. Your brand of fanaticism is getting old.

"Do you feel any shame? Are you proud of posting something like that? Did you not say that it was actually you because you believe what you posted?" No No No Down girl.

Yes Patty, that sure as shit bothered me and I aint afraid or ashamed to admit it. If I had enough tits to get tangled, it would be because I never thought I would read that shit here. My skin may be thick but never thick enough to tolerate that sort of ingnorance and betrayal. It dont take a very smart mind to figure out whats right and whats wrong and that shit was just wrong. You would expect such words on the internet from a stranger but never from someone you've been posting with for all these years. Your brand of fanaticism has been old for years and it aint stopped you. Dont expect it from me because you'll be in for a huge let down.

I am not sure why this is considered betrayal. If you think that is they way I feel, you don't know me at all. I found this shit via http://www.intellnet.org/news/index.html?type=today Which is one of many sites I surf to get more information then you can find on MSNBC, CBS, FOXNEWS, CNN, ABC, PBS, NPR, or Rush Limbaugh. I want to see both sides. I want to read what "they" are saying and thinking. I want to share with you guys what I have found that has convinced me there is no reasoning with these bastards, that they are not doing just because we sent monies to isreal. That there is some lunatic fringe that these guys are opperating on

admit it, you dont know what the word "fanatic" means do you? "My skin may be thick but never thick enough to tolerate that sort of ingnorance and betrayal." HA! Despite the content of what Omar is saying...he sounds more intelligent than you. You sound like a rabid dog barking out your ass.

Trace that link I read it,those 200 bombs missing is really scarey.

Yes, you could say that...

Point proved. The same old boring shit spewing out of your mouth Patty and it just never seems to stop. Rabid. How original. If only you havent used that word a few thousand times it may have actually been a fresh change of pace for you Patty. Does the word fanatic apply say to....someones strange obsession with SUV'S for example or is it just reserved for lack of new material? Yeah Trace, you want to see what "they" are saying and thinking so you come here and post their bullshit under "their" identity? Jesus, where was your compassion and respect for people that actually do feel sympathy for the dead and for those who are left behind battling shattered lives and mangled hearts? To subject such horrible words upon those who actually care in such a tender and heartbreaking time was inexcusable and morally unacceptable.

there are uncountable dead and shattered lives and mangled hearts all across the globe because of united states political manipulations. hundreds of times more than a mere 3000 in a couple of skyscrapers. absolutely innocent lives ruined thanks to uncle sam, inc. dani, you'll say that you don't give a fuck about all those lives because they aren't american. you actually believe they're less human than americans are. you should apply for a job with milosevic's organization. saner people than you are locked away in asylums.

A mere 3000 people? I'm Sorry you feel that way Dave.

ugly ugly american. to all the foreign sorabjites....she *points* does not represent the US on the whole. or wait....does she.

"Jesus, where was your compassion and respect for people that actually do feel sympathy for the dead and for those who are left behind battling shattered lives and mangled hearts?" I believe I have demonstrated my compassion for those victims time and time again. But the best way to answer thier deaths is not to ignore what killed them. And I do not subscribe to the "America is at fault" idealogy either. No one forced the alleged hijackers to fly the planes into the trade center towers. They did that on thier own free will. Might as well blame a gun for a death by gunshot wound, or a car for a hit and run. Again: Understand my point: this is the "evil" that we face. There can be no negotiations, or comprimises on our part, because what they want is for the United States to cease as a country. This particular breed of Muslim or Islam is one that beleives that all non-muslim religions must be conquered, period. Folks, this *is* a holy war. It is being fought by christians, jews, muslims and ATHIESTS. There can be no escape. It will spread. I have heard this called the begining of WWIV.....

"Jesus, where was your compassion and respect for people that actually do feel sympathy for the dead and for those who are left behind battling shattered lives and mangled hearts?" here Dani let me modify this for you: "Jesus, where was your 'MERICAN compassion and 'MERICAN respect for the 'MERICAN people that actually do feel 'MERICAN sympathy for the 'MERICAN dead and for those 'MERICANS who are left behind in 'MERICA battling shattered 'MERICAN lives and mangled 'MERICAN hearts?" anyone else other than me hear banjos?

Patty your still a traitor and always will be. If I had my way, I would wish death upon no one but thats not possible. So in the meantime I can only wish the very best for my country and my people.

your country is assfucking you and your people. enjoy!

Dani you can't even begin to comprehend what a traitor is. You're a bigot, a xenophobe and facist who understands not one inkling of the concept of liberty and freedom. The only traitor is you Dani, for failing to understand the unique responsibilities that come with being an American. And no dumbass, im not talking about voting either.

If you hate your country so much, why dont you just leave and take Patty with you! I'll bet john walker lindh would love to ass fuck you both!

I'll even throw in my brand new Jeep Liberty SUV to get you there!

"Patty your still a traitor and always will be. If I had my way, I would wish death upon no one..." Dunno, one penalty for treason is death. Sounds like you want to kill Patty. Do you want to kill his wife and unborn child, too? That would get rid of all them traitors 'n' their kin!

See....this is why you're a retard Dani. I have never ever ever said I hate my country. Ever! You are too dense to comprehend criticism so you just assume i don't like this country. Being critical doesn't mean you are not a patriot. Our system is designed for criticism. We're you sleeping in Civics or Social Studies class?? Your idea of not allowing any criticism, calling anyone who disagrees with what our leaders do a traitor and demanding we all toe the line in times of crisis is dangerous and anti-American. The problem is, you're just too dense to get it, which is why YOU are even THAT much more dangerous. Do you understand what dave meant when he made the Milosivic comment? Did you comprehend that? He means to say that your ideas and words are more unAmerican, more totalitarian and repressive than many others around here and to act like you are the ultimate patriot is just ironic and downright stupid.

"If you hate your country so much, why dont you just leave..." Why is this ALWAYS the best that you people can do in the face of dissent? pussies.

However, that would make an awesome Onion article, like if everyone who had any kind of dissenting opinion about any of our government's policies, suddenly decided to take that suggestion to heart: MASSIVE WAVE OF POLITICAL REFUGEES FLEE THE UNITED STATES, CANADA CLOSES ITS BORDERS

JAG RERUNS MANDATORY VIEWING

I believe I have demonstrated my compassion for those victims time and time again. But the best way to answer their deaths is not to ignore what killed them. trace, this was very well stated. here, here!

Dani, please check this site out (you will have to cut and paste, then delete the extra space that got inserted after the back slash before the word main): http://www.journale.com/ withoutsanctuary/ main.html Adn then please tell me again that those critical of the US are traitors. That goes for everyone, actually. Awareness of the black marks of your country's history makes you a better citizen. Ignoring the black marks makes you liable.

i was gonna say the very same thing agatha then the phone rang....no, really, its true.

Patty dear, there is no need for you to think that you need to explain everything to me. Get off your high horse and stop patting yourself on the back because your no where near as smart as you think you are. You are the dense and retarded one if you think you are any smarter than I am. Never have been and never will be. Your need to come across as brilliant and try to convince others of your self proclaimed brilliance is like beating a dead horse...useless. Get over it and understand that you, or your views are no better than anyone elses. Antigone, using Patty and his Wife and their unborn child in the same context as death is disturbing and repuslive. Wake up and pay attention. I never ever once wished, thought, or hoped death for Patty and his family. What kind of low life are you to say something like that? If I were Patty, I'd be quite upset at your weak attempt to get a cheap laugh at his families expense.

I think patrick knows my rhetorical style well enough to not be worried. Besides, I was just following in the footsteps of posters like "The Watcher," whom you seem to admire so much. People like you and him seem to think that way. Just like patrick will peobably turn his kid on to acid, he'll probably spread his treasonous thoughts on to him/her as well. Why not follow your thoughts to their logical conclusion? Are you afraid of where they lead?

they lead to incidents such as those documented at the link i posted. damnit.

Gosh dadburn it whut is this hyar fightin' fo'? We is supposed t'be "united we stan'" right? RIGHT? Whut in tarnations happened t'all th' love? Mo'eovah whut happened t'mah chickins lass night? Tiggy Im lookin' in yer direckshun

Sem listen, the bottom line is this. I may not agree with some of the actions used by this country and the truth is, I think George Bush is an asshole and a complete incompetent pussy but I have one of two choices. I can either spend my life finding all the flaws of this country and nit picking at all the misdoings but at the end of the day, that will only leave a great deal of anger and hopelessness inside of me. Instead I choose to have hope that my country is doing the best they can and if I stand by my country and be loyal to my country, at the end of the day I can feel like I have accomplished something. Support and hope for my country allows me to have a possitive outlook for the future. There is no such thing as a perfect world Sem but I'll be damned if I will ever turn my back on who I am or where I come from or who helped me to get where I am today.

Better yet, brin' ME th' Taliban an' al Qaida. I'll take care of thet Osama Bin Laden wif mah bare han's. God Bless South Car'lina an' Fo'd pick em up trucks

"There is no such thing as a perfect world Sem but I'll be damned if I will ever turn my back on who I am or where I come from or who helped me to get where I am today." Do you include all the evil American muslims with those you support? "Yet you all flock here like flies on shit with all your allah crap and expect us to kiss your fuckin' asses." I dare you, I fucking dare you to say that in East Dearborn, Michigan.

Antigone, again, wake up dude. I have never had a conversation with Watcher. Does anything that ever comes out of your blow hole ever make sense or have any truth to it or is grasping at straws your thing? You assumed that I wished Patty and his family death and you assumed that I admire Watcher when in all reality, I have never ever had any doings with Watcher. Your use of the word "seem" is becoming an ugly little habit.

I've got your deliverance Dani

"I may not agree with some of the actions used by this country and the truth is, I think George Bush is an asshole and a complete incompetent pussy but I have one of two choices. I can either spend my life finding all the flaws of this country and nit picking at all the misdoings but at the end of the day, that will only leave a great deal of anger and hopelessness inside of me. Instead I choose to have hope that my country is doing the best they can and if I stand by my country and be loyal to my country, at the end of the day I can feel like I have accomplished something. Support and hope for my country allows me to have a possitive outlook for the future." Give me a break. You contradict yourself in your hope and loyalty to your country and your statement about not agreeing with what has been or is being done. How is having hope in an asshole and complete incompetent pussy going to make you feel like you accomplished something? Thanks for the laugh!

shit that didnt quite work the way i wanted it to.

droopy! stay! dani, i'm not criticizing you, but isn't it possible to believe that your country is a great one while still being aware of its' many flaws? to me, the best proof that this country is a good one is the mere fact that we can have this dialogue without fear. my love for this country doesn't mean that i am blind to the many ways that we have screwed other countries in the name of patriotism.

Cletus, ain't yoo too busy shufflin' t'wards Bethlehem t' be born?

Agatha, I said above that I may not agree with some of the actions used by this country and I know that our country has done some terrible things but I cant dwell on it. Fact is, I have to accept what is in front of me because I cant change it. Yes our country has many flaws and I'm well aware of that but this country is all I have ever had or ever will have and I have to have faith that a much safer future is ahead. By No one of importance, your just that. Obviously not important enough to leave your name. Kazoo, I'm not impressed. Patty, your whole banjo thing is just as stupid as most of the things you say. I mean really...banjos?

dani, just because you are angry about 9/11, which is clearly valid, is no reason to scorn all of islam. in the same way, others people who criticize US policies are not saying they hate the whole nation. you are thinking in generalities, and thats dangerous. "never pass collective judgements. children of killers are not killers". this is something elie wiesel said to us when he spoke about 9/11 and about the holocaust.

"I know that our country has done some terrible things but I cant dwell on it." You can't ignore it, either. But, if you can't dwell on it, why can't you let anyone else dwell? "Fact is, I have to accept what is in front of me because I cant change it." Of course you can. It's called "democracy." So, Dani, in you last few posts you're basically saying that you're a wounded person who has to use absolute faith in your country to prop yourself up, and any perceived attack on the country is also an attack on your fragile ego? If you're self aware enough to post that, then you CAN do something about it. Don't put faith in externals. Put faith in yourself. I get the feeling that you attitudes about not being able to change the country extend to yourself, or maybe it's the other way around. And, that's my psychobabble moment for this thread. Thank you, and good night.

also, thanks spunky for that post. it is good to at least see the other position, even if it is hard to make sense of it.

"If you hate your country so much, why dont you just leave and take Patty with you!" if you're handing out visas, can i get one for canada, sweden, new zealand and australia? i'd even settle for the seychelles or the maldives. anywhere but here. it's gonna get really crappy here.

So anybody worried about 200 missing bombs?

they're not missing. they're "missing".

My sister is in the Ukraine right now.

Antigone, you couldnt analyze me if you tried and your psychobabble was way off base. Of course I am saddened by 9/11. If I wasnt, I wouldnt be human. And of course I'm angry at all the suffering that was caused but the truth is, I cant change what is in front of me and none of you can either. Democracy? Please. Get real. We have choices that we all are allowed to make and I choose to think possitive. I choose to have faith. I choose to take the good with the bad, not ignore anything. I choose not to feel hopeless. I choose not to feel that my country is doing me wrong but doing the best it can for me. I choose to believe that my country will be a better place in the near future. I choose to believe that my already wonderful life will only continue to get better. I choose to enjoy life to the fullest and be thankful that life has been so good to me in so many ways. I do not choose to allow the bad things to ruin the good things. I do not choose to ignore the bad, but trust that some good comes from bad. I hope I never believe that things are gonna get so crappy here that I want to leave my country like Dave said. Thats sad and full of hopelessness. I love where I live and I honestly believe things will get better and better as the days, weeks, months, and years go by. Thats how I look at life. I only have one life to live and I choose to make the most out of it and enjoy it. I can change my own life but I cannot change the world and to believe that that is possible is misleading and ultimatly impossible and I wont live my life for false hopes.

I am. I think that is why Iraq agreed to the inspection. Delay Delay Delay. It would give him another 6 months of breathing space. I think he is playing the End Game Scenerio. It sets such a nasty situation up. 1. We let up and he gets 6 months to a year to keep working. He's very close now. OR 2. We push forward and piss off a lot of people and really start up the shit tiggy, your sister know where they are??? I

You do a lot of believing and have a lot ot faith, Dani. Must be nice, that way you don't have to DO anything about it. The reason folks like Patrick and myself point out at times the really shitty thing our country does and has done ( and believe me, Stalin was competing with US), is because folks like you "choose not to dwell on it." and spunky, the thing that really does worry me about this war with Iraq deal is that the administration, in my opinion, is not doing enough talking about the next ten years or so of occupation in Iraq we're probably lookng at. We are probalby looking at a permanent military presence in the Middle East for the foreseeable future.we should at least be talking about that. "Choose not to dwell on it" I bet the folks living at Pine Ridge or Cabrini- Green wish they couyld choose not to dweel on it either. Just realize you come out swinging with your bigotry, folks here will slap you down for it.

Go ahead and get slap happy all you want and it still wont change anything. I'd love to hear of one solid thing that any of you are doing to change your terrible country. Are you getting anywhere? I doubt it. Will you get anywhere? Ditto. I'll tell you what, if and when you make some sort of huge change with all the complaints you have with your world that will have a possitive and direct effect on us, let me know. I am so relieved that I am not as miserable in life as you all are. What a horrible way to live. You must live in the dreariest and gloomiest of days every single day. Thats sad.

You are everything that is wrong with this country. I bet you would have walked right past a group of firemen blasting civil rights activists back in the 60s and said the same things you are saying now. You are an apologist and that is a far sadder thing than you would ever let yourself comprehend. (way to unite the country, mr. president.)

Never doubt that a small group of dedicated people can change the world; indeed it is the only thing that ever does. and, Fuck You, You Ass (she's the one that really started that. yup. she learned that from the children in Samoa, true story. Back in the twenties...everything we get comes from the third world)

"and spunky, the thing that really does worry me about this war with Iraq deal is that the administration, in my opinion, is not doing enough talking about the next ten years or so of occupation in Iraq we're probably lookng at. We are probalby looking at a permanent military presence in the Middle East for the foreseeable future.we should at least be talking about that." I think that is the desired outcome.

That's nuts. Of course, it's not surprising considering how top heavy the administration is with oil cronies. GE and Lockheed-Martin must be just drooling.

Good God, is there anything at all that you wont bitch and complain about Sem? You just seem to find fault in everything and everyone. "You are everything that is wrong with this country. I bet you would have walked right past a group of firemen blasting civil rights activists back in the 60s and said the same things you are saying now. You are an apologist and that is a far sadder thing than you would ever let yourself comprehend." I'll tell you what dude..I'll go step into my time machine that I borrowed from Michael J. Fox and rush right back to the 60's and change the situation because I sure as fuck cant change it now and you cant either. I am everything that is RIGHT with this country because I believe in it and I trust it. Just because you dont is your choice and your problem. You need to come out of your gray and dismal world and join in on the sunshine and happy days. It's a really nice place to be. "and, Fuck You, You Ass (she's the one that really started that. yup. she learned that from the children in Samoa, true story. Back in the twenties...everything we get comes from the third world)" Few pennies short of a dollar there Margaret??? Fuck you too. So, back to my question which amazingly has not yet been answered. What are any of you currently doing to change all the wrongs in your country? Anyone actively involved in changing the world to suit your needs and wants? I'd love to hear about all the progress your making.

"I'd love to hear of one solid thing that any of you are doing to change your terrible country. Are you getting anywhere? I doubt it. Will you get anywhere? Ditto." I could tell you, but then I would have to kill you. Litteraly

Dani, I don't usually get involved in these conversations, but I have to say that I don't think anyone is saying they think our country is terrible. It's just that our country (the military and policy makers) has hurt many innocent people all over the globe, and having a "my country, right or wrong" attitude may very well lead a person into the wrong.

hey spider...fuck you too. hey sem, some more food for thought about this Iraq matter...if we strike, as in pre-emptive it sets a new and terribly dangerous precident. then India or Pakistan could strike based on premption....China could take Taiwan. Australia could take New Zealand all based on so-called perceived threats. Hey Dani...we may not be marching and protesting everyday, or heading off to the Peace Corps or doing anything tangible but at least we're not purposely shoving our head up our flag-diapered ass.

I'm really fond of the Un-American's on WWE right now. It's a lot of fun to watch the American's in the audience get so horribly angry when they come out with their upside down flag. It's also a little scarey. I wouldn't want to announce my nation in a crowd like that. the amusing (and scarey/sad) thing about American's is how little most of them (not all, just most) know about the world around them, beyond their borders. Did any of you guys ever see "Talking to American's?"?

Settle down and stop peppering your posts with insults, and maybe Dani could respond to your message instead of your attitude. Calling her a retard isn't a great way to persuade her to listen to you.

patrick, I don't believe I have seen anyone else talk to spider like that. could you explain what brought that on?

Wow, this is all so deja vu.

i like america. i don't like being lied to, patronized, manipulated and coerced. just tell me the truth. i'm a big boy, i can handle it. i might even subscribe.

"fuck you too spider" jesus christ it was a joke spunk, spider. you know this right? did my sarcasm not drip profusely? dani was passing them around so i bandwagoned. and spider thanks for the logic but its not really a concern of mine.

sorry patrick, i should have known better.

Don't be picking on Spider,she's not the one name calling here,and this petty bickering is making me regret that I didn't stay in my bedroom and watch how to make a stuffed pork loin. Dani,I could be in the D.A.R. if I wanted to my dad was in the S.A.R. and was a disabled vetran of World War 2 and I'm a proud American too but I DO question authority.We have made mistakes and have to learn from them,that's what this all boils down to in a nutshell. And yes I see this as world war 3 and remembering Viet Nam a "war" we never "won" I kinda question authority but then again I don't want to be a sitting duck either.I'm going to my orientation today to volunteer at that school for homeless kids,that's what I'm doing to change the world you have to start somewhere:)I also donated our $600.00 tax rebate to the concert for New York after 9/11 and I send money to several charities.I hope that I'm trying to change the world.

Here's what I do (but only because you asked): I used to tutor kids for free. I've participated in many letter writing campaigns, editing grant requests for non-profits. While I am here I will be volunteering at Jerusalem House which is an organization that serves HIV+ women and children in Atlanta. No, none of these have anything to do with foriegn policy or ever effect anyone outside of those I have direct contact with. Sorry, if I let you down.

I've donated money to causes I support. I've written letters to the editor and to my elected representatives. I've been a member of Amnesty International. Once I finally settle down in an area I think I will be for a long time, I plan on joining a mentoring program. I voice my opinion and call out folks who are spouting hate and ignorance. I don't drive an SUV. My 401(k) investments once they begin will be all in socially responsible funds. I vote. I'm smart enough to recognize that recognizing past events in our history have a long-reaching effect and incorporate that into how I think about our country. To quote a good american: "I love this country/ I think I love it more than you/Enough to fight the Stars and Stripes/Of Corruption."

See Patty, Spider has common sense..something you could use plenty of. And besides, if memory serves me right the word retard tore up some snatches around here didnt it? You told Spider to fuck off simply because she didnt run up your ass and say something that you would have said. J, I am glad you donated money...as did I but that was simply a kind jesture for us to help our fellow man..it wont change any of the complaints you see listed above by all the chronic complainers here. I donate money every single year since I was 15 to the Jerry Lewis M.D. telethon. Obviously there is still no cure and approx. 25-30 million dollars is raised each year. Am I supposed to think negative and think a cure will never be found or stay possitive and have faith that a cure will be found some day soon or in the future? I choose number 2 because I believe things will always continue to get better and better. I'd be willing to bet my left cunt lip that most of you people dont donate anything except misery to all that surrounds you. Keep up the good work.

Dont appologize Kazoo, it was to be expected. Uh-huh Sem...so how and when will those so called good things that you do have any possitive and direct effect on me or my country? It wont. Ever. None of you people are doing a fucking thing to change the things you dont like about this country. You just like to think you are by bitching about it all the time. Maybe it's true what they say..keep telling yourself what you want to hear and eventually you'll believe it.

Hey, if you all dont mind, I'd like an answer to another question I have. Who, if anyone here, went to some kind of memorial service on 9/11 last week? Be honest now...no need to make yourselves look good at this point. I'm thinking my other cunt lip has a real good chance at this longshot.

"Who, if anyone here, went to some kind of memorial service on 9/11 last week? Be honest now...no need to make yourselves look good at this point." You and your poor lip. Um, I work at a military base. There were many here, and I was "obligated" to attend. Not to mention I lost 3 co-workers at the Pentagon.

OBLIGATED to attend? You and YOUR poor lip.

Oh, one more thing. I am not a religious person, as eri can definately confirm, but I do follow many of the practices of the "Christian Faith". One of them is not bringing attention to yourself when you are giving to charity, or helping the poor. You should give privately and with respect. Do not call attention to your deeds, for calling attention to it shows it was for your benefit and not the charity's. I still hold to that.

"Who, if anyone here, went to some kind of memorial service on 9/11 last week?" I answered your question, lady (and I use that term loosely). There were 1 month, 2 month, 3 month, 6 month and 1 year ceremonies. I was at all of them. It is mandatory, so I did not have any choice in the matter. Does that invalidate my participation?

that was me, not sure why it just says "s"

Sure Spunk, whatever you say. I was failing to realize that your a little slow Spunk so I'll rephrase the question a little for you. Without being forced, mandated, or obligated who, if anyone here, went to some sort of memorial service last week on 9/11 on their own free will out of compassion, sympathy, remembrance, appreciation, etc..etc..? That better Sir Sure is Slow Alot? And by the way, I am very much indeed a lady and I have my very well groomed twat to prove it.

I do not know that many ladies who refer to thier genetalia as a "twat", but OK

So many people around here are rude and insulting and stupid and idiotic, but this is the first time I've ever felt anyone was just plain mean. No one ever got their point across by being snarky.

I did,I went to one at A.S.U

memorials are very private, personal, family affairs. unless you knew someone who was killed why would you go? further, what the fuck does that have to do with anything dani? thats completely irrelavent as people deal with such things entirely differently. dani, please, i realize i started all of this when i got the pokin stick out yesterday, but enough is enough. you've embarrassed yourself plenty already.

EVERYONE here is mean. All you have to do is scroll up and read all the posts on just this page alone. This is actually quite tame compared to some of our debates Gee.

"unless you knew someone who was killed why would you go?" There ladies and gentleman are Patty's TRUE colors. Typical Patty. Selfish bastard. I believe you just took the embarrassment award right out of my hands.

"entirely differently" god dammit

ARGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dani....why should i go? it has nothing to do with being selfish and everything to do with respecting the families. dumbass. do you go to strangers' funerals often?

If you are ever in the market for real estate in Saudi Arabia,give these guys a call.

I am sitting here shocked at your "unless you knew someone who was killed why would you go?" statement Patty. When I first read it, I was so stunned that I sat here for a moment squinching my eyes reading it over and over thinking that I misread it. But sure as the fuckin' sky is blue, I was reading it correctly. UNITY Patty, thats why I would go. And did. And will continue to. It was just a simple question that didnt have to do with anything at all except mere curiosity. You never fail to shock me Patty. Wow.

I was being sarcastic Dani. I will NEVER apologize for what I do. And I am trying to change the things that I don't like. All of these things relate to things about our society that I want to change. Does this mean I am allowed no other dissenting opinions? What good is freedom of speech if all I can say is, "out of sight, out of mind"? This is the last time I am posting here

NO, stay Kazoo. Please

I didnt walk into any fuckin' funeral parlors you self absorbed idiot. I went to a public memorial service called " Flags along the Bayshore" in Tampa and visited my church that evening. Oh my God your a sick fuckin' individual. You've actually managed to creep me the fuck out. Ew.

Unity? HA! You probably put a flag improperly on your car too. And I bet you probably had one of those yellow ribbons on your mailbox during the Gulf War too right? Unity is no good after the fact. Unity was needed well before the attacks. And Im not talking Unity amongst Americans either. Bahhhhhhhh Bahhhhhhhhhhh

clarification: This is the last time I am posting on this thread (thanks spunky)

Oh Kazoo stop it. We all leave and we all come back. You will also. Werent YOU the one throwing around the word "pussies" yesterday? "Does this mean I am allowed no other dissenting opinions? What good is freedom of speech if all I can say is, "out of sight, out of mind?" I dont recall anyone telling you what to say and what not to say. I dont recall anyone telling you that you cant have and state your own opinions. Boo Hoo Kazoo. Toughen up sister.

Dani - could you possibly try not to suck so much. Thanks. this obviously has turned into one more of Dani's "I'm a better american than you" threads. So I too will waste no more time on here.

But, I kinda love to suck. It's a gift. "this obviously has turned into one more of Dani's "I'm a better american than you" threads. So I too will waste no more time on here." Uh buh-bye to you too.

dani, i'll bet the majority of the people you memorialize would despise you if they read what you've been saying here. you can be so repugnant. btw, i didn't go to any goddam memorial. i was sick and tired of hearing about 9/11 by the time the first memorial-moment of silence crap happened and i've seen enough flags to make captain america gag. i'm OVER it.

I dunnow. Captain America can deep throat a LOT of flags.

i intentionally didn't go to the memorial service that was being held at the state capitol, because it was a secular event and i am not religious. in fact, i thought it was incredibly bizarre that these all staff emails were being passed around at my work for this event. can anyone say "separation of church and state"? i did have a moment of silence by myself at 12:15, while a bunch of people including the governor, were convening in seattle. for me, that was a more appropriate option, and i am more interested in private gestures than the strange "i am mourning more than you" atmosphere that tends to permeate a lot of the memorial type services. that night, instead of watching tv and getting even more depressed, i went to a meeting at cleo's school. since you asked.

repugnant. Very very good Dave. Fresh. New. Nice change of pace for you and nothing makes me happier than knowing that I encouraged it. Keep up the good work.

A moment of silence by yourself is a hell of alot better than nothing at all Agatha. Hell of alot better than "unless you knew someone who was killed why would you go?" or "btw, i didn't go to any goddam memorial. i was sick and tired of hearing about 9/11 by the time the first memorial-moment of silence crap happened and i've seen enough flags to make captain america gag. i'm OVER it."

More wisdom from Jello Biafra.... "You say you'll fight to the death to save your useless flag...if YOu want a bannana republic that bad...WHY DON"T YOU GO MOVE TO ONE!" Continued....If we don't try..to do better than this who will? So how about we just just keep posting DK lyrics about this thread. It's scary how much sense that music makes, even though it's 20 years old now. The world needs the Dead Kennedys. Or at least Zac De La Rocha.

i hear ya agatha. it reminds me of being in high school, when one of the cheerleaders got killed in an accident because she was blowing the football captain while he was driving his brand new mustang after a case of beer at 3am and he came, causing him to run square into a telephone pole, throwing her to the cows...you know the scenario? It was like everyone made a point to save their tears for in between periods in the halls so everyone could see. Those whom she didnt even know (aand maybe even despised) were crying in the halls in some sort of weird public display. It reaked of shallowness. Not my cup o tea. Despite what your pea-brain thinks dani, what dave, I or anyone else decided to do in terms of dealing with the 1 year anniversary of the attack is of no concern, nor is it indicative of anything other than how we deal with something of such great magnitude. Its a personal matter. the loss in NY and DC is just as grand as the loss in Afghanistan of innocent lives due to our bombs. Its just as grand as the innocents we killed in Kosovo, Serbia, Iraq and elsewhere. I realize you're too xenophobic and bigoted to appreciate that, and its too far away for you to even grasp but...what you're reaching for, what you're trying to prove because I think public memorials for people i've never known are uncomfortable and too personal for my attendance or the fact that dave, like me and countless others, is tired of the marketing ploy and media spin on the matter as well as just the fucking phrase "9/11" every god damn day, 10 times a day, for a solid fucking year now......ALL of this proves nothing. So shut up already ok?

Well I guess I'll just slap this up here the homeless school, I found out before(thank God)I went there I'd have to be fingerprinted.I found out about this program through my husbands company they encourage their employees to volunteer and I saw it on their newsletter.Long story short I didn't go because of that domestic violence thing when I kicked Amee's butt,I was afraid his company would find out,then it hit me I'll probably never be able to volunteer for anything to do with kids and I just got so upset.Well I'll just have to look for something I can do,but totally pissed.

Your right, it is a personal matter but no one was FORCED to answer my question. pea-brain xenophobic bigoted Do you have any clue how old and "tiresome" and boring and just plain dull you are? I'll shut up when you shup up which we both know will never happen so get used to it.

this is the thread that never ends it just goes on and on my friends some people started posting here not knowing what it was, and they'll continue posting here forever just because this is the thread that never ends it just goes on and on my friends some people started posting here not knowing what it was, and they'll continue posting here forever just because.... (come, sing with me)

Well, you can be my neighbor

i used to get that song stuck in my head for days. thanks a lot, trace.

Mr Rogers or the lambchop song? I diddna do the lambchop one... But it never ends does it?

Rock on agatha! I checked out your website once and got the song *Helping* from *Free to be...You and me" stuck in my head for a week. Just returning the favor.

you are so cool for getting that reference. i am in the throes of website reconstruction right now, so i've been a terrible updater of websites. sorry. and spunky, i'm talking about the lambchop song. i'm not sure why i assumed that you posted that, but i did assume indeed.

I just googled maza sadir and found all this... I don't know if anyone will ever read this, but here: I think boils down to a conflict between two western religions. Christianity and Islam both call for the destruction of false profits. Christians have slaughtered millions and destroyed huge beautiful civilizations for hundreds of years, all in the name of God. Islam has spread in a similar violent manner, throughout Asia and Africa. After all, Mohammad did call for muslims to wipe non-believers off the face of the earth. Now we are sitting on top of a 2000 year old war, that is nowhere near over. The advent of nuclear weapons raises the stakes.

Dani you intelligence is shameful. You as an american is shameful. I am sorry I read this thread and saw how you think.