What do you tell a 15-year-old who's about to drop out of school? No comedy routines, please. I'm just wondering how I can make the idea of education seem palatable to someone who's all but given up on it. This kid who's living with me (long story, on another thread) is about to drop out of school. He's terrified of school, which I understand. He's not lazy, he's phobic. I'm talking about sweating, shaking panic attacks. Complete terror. He gets bullied at school and the teachers always seem to be conveniently looking the other way. In the past, he's attended school just enough to stay in. Crappy grades, crappier self-esteem. And he's been picked on for years by jocks. Anyway, he's really a good kid. Very gentle and kind. Not dumb, either. Just lacking in formal education. Although he stays with me now, his parents have the ultimate say in the matter. They're signing the papers for him to drop out. They're all for his dropping out because they say he can always get a great factory job without a diploma. Crimson's husband hires people all the time whose education stopped between sixth and ninth grade. You CAN get work without a diploma. But to me, that's not enough to ask out of life. Hanging out in some factory surrounded by bullies, retards and morons isn't really an option. Ren (Mr. Crimson) tells stories about the yokels who work in his plant and they don't even sound human. It's like overseeing fucking animals. Which is not to say that all dropouts turn out like that, because I've met some people who dropped out and still seem fairly together. However, this kid would simply die if turned loose in a redneck workplace to be chewed up by a bunch of monsters and thugs. He just wouldn't make it. He's a bit frail and sensitive, the kind of bully-bait that creeps like to pick on most. There's nothing I can do to stop him from dropping out. Because of this, I've asked him to promise to spend at least half an hour with me every day while I make a feeble attempt at homeschooling him. He has agreed to this. Trust me, a half hour is all he can take. He has a somewhat limited attention span, gets frustrated easily and reads worse than I previously thought. Of all the concepts I've tried to gently hammer into his head so far, history seems to be the easiest to swallow. I tell him the weird and gory stuff, just to keep it all interesting. He remembers what I tell him. He's not stupid. And that's exactly what pisses me off, too. He's NOT stupid. If anything had been done with him in his childhood instead of letting him hang around the trailer and starve, he could've done well in school. He's above average in intelligence but nothing was ever done about it. His parents just let him rot. They didn't (and don't) even care. Shit, I haven't even known him for all that long, but as far as his folks care, I might as well be Daddy. They've been praying that someone would take the kid off their hands because there are too many other kids (10) to feed, which stretches the charity rations quite a bit. I'm willing to help. I couldn't imagine someone meeting this boy and NOT helping. Why, though, would anybody have children and not provide for their intellectual well-being? I don't understand that. Anyway, I just wish there were something I could do to keep him in school. He won't be enrolling this Fall. Guess I'll go to the library and pick up more books, since I'm going to be the only teacher he's got. You don't even know how frightening that is.

Pilate, I applaud your courage. This is not an easy situation. Have they tried special ed? (not saying he is slow or anything like that, but maybe he needs special teachers that can pay special attention to him. Special ed is not just for stupid or slow people, but people who need special attention

what is he interested in? what does he do with his free time? work his interests into a reading program. introduce him to some musical instrument if he isn't playing something already.

You know, formal, public education doesn't seem to be the answer for this kid. I'd suggest keep on homeschooling him. Half an hour may not seem like much, but it's something. If you like, I can try to help... I work in a library and I could do some research on methods to improve a child's attention span or something... ? Do you think he'd like logic puzzles? I think those help excercise a brain a lot... and not all are hard. You can find simple ones by Lewis Carroll in anything that says it's "the collected works of Lewis Carroll" and they go from easy to hard. It's symbolic logic, actually. Not all learning is done in school... maybe try to get him interested in some kind of scene. I know that sounds dumb, but a lot of learning is done incidentally while reading or researching something you like. There ought to be reading material for adults that is easy at the library (or they can get their hands on some, probably). I know that my branch has ESOL material (English as a second language) and literacy stuff... easy english but adult interests, so that grown ups don't have to read Pinky & Rex while trying to improve their reading skills. He might benefit too. I could pass on some ISBN numbers if that would help. Good Luck!

i agree that homeschooling is a great option--that way, the pressure is off him to perform socially or whatever other situations he is scared of regarding attending school, but he can still get his GED. a great book about this is called "the teenage liberation handbook" it's all about dropping out and how school fucking blows and all that, but it lists resources for realistic options so kids who choose not to follow the norm can still make smart choices about their future. it's easy to find here in portland, so let me know if you want it and i can send it to you. don't let him slip through the cracks......

i agree so wholly with nate. give him a music instrument, encourage him to express himself in some sort of creative outlet. How about a camera? Nothing more gratifying than photography. Does he express interest in computers? Web design? offer him something that he expresses an interest in. Something that produces results (i.e music, painting etc)...there is nothing more encouraging and gratifying than see the fruits of your labor. Simply having him read may seem tedious to him, however if he takes a liking to say an instrument, he might find it appealing to read about other musicsians and such..........i too applaud your efforts here and wish the best

Good luck with the poor kid! (nothing else to say...) I admire people like you, Pilate.

Thanks! TONS of good suggestions here. I really like the part about music/photography etc. The kid doesn't play any instruments and doesn't appear to have any major hobbies that I can discern, which may be part of the problem. A musical instrument. That's a great idea. Musically he's hard to pin down. He likes Marilyn Manson but he also likes Leadbelly. He's a seriously poor kid and never had many tapes or CDs of his own. He listens to whatever's played for him. I do know that he like the blues and Phil Ochs in addition to Nine Inch Nails and Patsy Cline. Guitar may be a bit frustrating for him. He doesn't like things he can't get a grip on right away. Drums, perhaps. But can I handle living with a budding young drummer? Also, drums could be a bit expensive. I'll have to think about this. Hell, he likes the blues. Give him a damn harmonica and set him out on the porch playing for spare change (I'm joking, already). Crimson's helping a lot. She used to be a teacher. But she taught college, not young people. Still, she's got some ideas that are really helping. What I've got here is a totally non-traditional student. I think he may also be exhibiting signs of some sort of social anxiety. He ranges from being flamboyant (cross-dressing and acting "weird" in public) to being very isolated at home. I've given him a safe place to crash. Now he doesn't want to leave for any reason. He generally won't leave without me. He doesn't dress in drag at home, either. I think the crossdressing is part of his way of fucking with society in a relatively safe way. He acts totally different around strangers than he does inside the house. He gets hyper around people he doesn't know. You can almost watch the pulse accelerating and the breathing becoming shallow. He starts giggling insanely and getting slight nervous tics. It's kind of bizarre. I want to help him out with learning. I don't want to turn into some stodgy, pointless old fuck while doing so. I think the trick is to keep it cool. Don't push and all that. His parents are useless. No matter how weird I may be, I promise you that Brendan's better off here with me. I still do worry about nosy neighbors eventually wondering why I've got a teenager at home all day when he should be in school. I'm nervous about them ever finding out (a) that I'm gay (b) that he is, too. That could be the end of it all. His parents abused and neglected him. He can't go home. His mother is a slovenly tobacco- chewing cow and his father is some kind of greasy toothless jailbird who's never done an honest day's work in his life. It's just awful. But watch and see if people don't think I'm the bad guy here for taking in a young innocent soul (ha) and giving him a roof over his head. I'm giving him food, clothing and medicine. He doesn't have to hustle here. He doesn't have to do a damn thing but be himself. I never want him to be out living on the streets again. Lots of indoor activities this fall. I'm going to look into an instrument for him. And/or a camera. And plenty of books. I think I'm going to talk to some adult education people and see what they've got to say about it. Maybe. I'll admit that I'm kind of paranoid though. The fewer locals that know the boy's here, the better.

The kid probably needs some therapy, too. He could be socially inept at school, because his family life was/is inadequate, but that can be turned around. Maybe he's got ADD. But if he's not interested in school, he's probably not gonna go unless someone makes him. 13...that's jr. high, right? Oh, geez. I was about to suggest the tech high school, but he's not there yet. Try to get him to stay in.

I hate to say this, and, being a former juvinile justice employee, usually never suggest it, but it does sound like you should consider therapy.

He's 15. He's been in a total panic about having to go to high school. Instead of holding him back again they decided to go ahead and send him to high school, which terrifies him. The dropping out is pretty much a given now. Technical education is another avenue I'd like to explore. Give him some kind of skill so he doesn't end up in a nightmare job someday. I do think he needs therapy, even of the armchair variety. One thing that concerns me is that he sometimes wakes up screaming. In his terror, he keeps asking his daddy not to "do it". I don't know what "it" is and can't get it out of him. He seems to forget a lot of his bad dreams upon awakening. He knows he's in a panic but doesn't seem to be sure why. I think he was beaten a lot. I know that one of his relatives burned him with cigarettes. Technical ed. Therapy. Music. Understanding. I think all of these could help.

i think you being such a right-on, sweet person is what's really going to help him!

He hopefully realizes what you are doing for him.

pilate if he decides photography would suit him, let me know and i can get you all the dirt on what he would need to do, and of coruse approximate costs.......

I think he does. It sounds like it's love and compassion he needs now. I admire your efforts. Everyone already posted my ideas, so I won't bother to contribute my .02 in that department. I was really frustrated in junior high/high school too (like everyone else), and almost dropped out until I found the theatre, which became my passion. It really helps to have something to dedicate yourself to. Really. I had a reason to get up and dress and live in the morning, and I had a lot of fun doing it. It was the best thing in the world for me, and I learned a lot. Encourage him to go out and meet the world. Hiding from it won't make things any easier.

i agree about the kiddo needing to find a suitable hobby or interest. it's crucial. for me, music saved my ass. without it, school seemed like so much redundant, pointless bullshit. most of the other classes were just dull spots betewen playing music. i also excelled at creative writing. otherwise, school seemed like a tedious & bizarre exercise. there's only so many damn frogs you dissect, after all. & then there's P.E. (physical education). god save the queen. i thought i'd die. they must give coaches lessons in how to be warped, sadistic motherfuckers. being in the middle of this whole situation w/ pilate provides an interesting perspective. kudos to pilate for taking the time to care...while working 2 jobs. the boy, brendan, shows up at my place sometimes. he's been showing some interest in my guitar playing. pilate doesn't know it yet, but i got the boy to sing a few verses of "goodnight irene" w/ me. he can, indeed, carry a tune. i think that the bass would be a good instrument for him. it's fairly easy to get started on. hell, it's what i started on, myself. even a person w/ no overwhelming musical talent can play passable bass behind some kind of basic 3-chord rock riff. this boy is an anomaly. from all i can tell, his siblings are loudmouth redneck bullies, just like their folks. this total waste of a family just happened to spawn one sweet kid who nearly got eaten alive in the middle of their neverending bullshit. i do feel that brendan's got a good heart. he sure has a sweet little smile, which we're getting to see a bit more often these days. i think pilate's taking him to an art gallery or something tomorrow. pilate was always a good student (mr. valedictorian dude). i think he still is & that he's getting as much an education out of this as the kid is.

Theatre/acting is a good idea. Any group of community players down there? When I was having social problems back in Jr. High/High school, theatre saved my ass and really allowed me to come out of my shell. Also, maybe some sort of volunteer program for him to participate in. I've heard that the learning experience you can get from becoming part of a volunteer organization can be an education in itself of how the real world works.

Theater is a great way to build his self esteem. Having people coming to see him and watch him, and enjoy what he was doing......

Pilate you are my hero! everyone is right. music is the most basest thing to get anyone going. i'm always shocked when i hear people say they are not into music. and this kid sounds like theatre/drama would be excellent for him. someone in this kid's position needs a serious creative outlet to keep him alive. fuck everyone around you. lie if you have to and tell them he's your nephew. do you have a computer in your house or at work? i know it is an investment, but there is a wealth of knowledge out there as you know that he can learn from. but besides music, the 1st and most important thing that he needs to learn and learn well is to read. if you can read, you can do anything. you should also look into goverment assistance for what you are doing. i'm talking $$$$. it's out there too, you just have to research it. therapy and a full physical check-up is in order too. you have just become a father. good luck and once again, you are my hero!

*What!? Government Assistance?! Blasphemy!!!! Guards, Take him away!* heh.

The "Pilate Worship" message is really truly sweet (thanks!!) but it also makes me nervous. I'm not exactly hero material. I'm doing the same thing anyone else would do if they saw a person who needed help. Doubtless, thousands upon thousands of people help folks out every day, which makes me just another face in the crowd. I think music might be the way to go. Theatre sounds cool, but I can already see the inherent problems here. While other kids would be breezing through reading their lines, he'd be stuck back on Page 1 trying to bulldoze his way though the text, getting embarrassed and frustrated. However, he might be good improv material. He's funny as hell and has an uncanny knack for memorizing information. If he didn't have to read a script but just heard it performed a few times, he'd probably pick it up quite handily. Memorization is a big thing with Brendan. It's how he fools people into thinking he's a competent reader. He'll carry around a well-worn book (he has several), whip it out and read from it rather well. Turns out he's either listened to a reading of it on cassette or heard someone reading it and memorized it. He used to have a tape of somebody reading a few Allen Ginsberg poems. Voila, now he can "read" Ginsberg. Had me fooled. I think there's hope in the fact that he can fool people. In his case, I don't necessarily see it as deception as much as adaptation. Most people wouldn't be clever enough to come up with a scheme like that to mask their inadequacies. So he's got adaptation skills and he's a problem-solver, at least on some rudimentary level. Recently, he got so frustrated while reading that he said he wanted to throw the fucking book against the wall. I told him to go ahead and do it. He looked at me wide-eyed and then finally threw the book against the wall. A few minutes later, after we had some iced tea together, he picked the book up himself and opened it again. We continued the lesson without any further incident. Frustration and anger are permitted. I think that's important. In the normal school system, especially these days, if you show signs of anger you'll probably get pumped full of Ritalin. In the schools I attended, if you showed anger, corporal punishment was always the standard response. Brendan can get pissed off but what he CAN'T do is stop learning. He can get mad as hell and still keep right on reading. Usually, right behind the anger will be an admission that he's in over his head. The lesson's going too damn fast. Time to slow it down and go back to Square One. Which is okay. I keep telling him that Square One is not a bad place. It's a refuge. You can go back there and visit from time to time. Then you forge ahead with your lessons. It's no big deal.

at least the learning continues

Wow. Pilate, you're good. Best of luck. This kid has a chance with you in his corner. Take that, you "traditional family values" hypocrites!

pilate is my hero too. i'm poor as hell, but i just received a call a week or two ago that i have been awarded another scholarship for this year. it is $1200 more a semester than i had anticipated. i do have a rather large doctor's bill to pay off, but if the instrument thing pans out i would be honored if i could chip in a few hundred dollars to help in the purchase of it. just email me or something.

I actually did technical work for the theatre, which in my opinion was much more fun than acting, as I hated having to memorize and present myself. But music is a wonderful idea. I feel frustrated a lot because I don't know enough about music to play/sing well, and it makes me sad. The more people who learn how to make beauty, the better the world is. (in my humble opinion). Anyway. You're a good person, Pilate.

Wow. Wow. You're doing a great, great thing, Pilate. This is just a minor little thing, but you know Lance Henriksen? He used to be illiterate, and he got people to read his lines into a tape recorder, and then he would listen to them over and over again to learn them. So maybe theatre could still be an option.

Somebody show people like Pilate to assholes like Cheney and the freaks in Oregon. Pilate, you're gonna be remembered. In a good way.

PILATE-HOMO HOMO HOMO HOMO HOMO HOMO HOMO

Jack-ass that is posting as Satan: Thatis enough. Fuck off before we find out who you are and kill you.

Mark, can you reveal anything about this satan kid?

Satan's ISP is birch.net. His actions are against the Birch.net terms of service. http://birch.net/termsandconditions.html We can all report him. a.Subscriber and its Users shall not use the Service: 1.to make foul or profane expressions, to impersonate another person with fraudulent or malicious intent, to contact another person to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass that person;

I work at Birch, but I promise you it is not me

This may sound stupid, but it could be any one of our customers that subscribe to Birch. We are a telecomunications company for businesses, and we offer ISP.

well, his specific ip is in the web source, and all his posts are timestamped. Do they log who's using what ip when?

Not that I know of, we do not have static ip addresses.

Hey, Satan- Yeah, I'm a homo. Guilty as charged. I'm the kind of homo that enjoys taking mouthy little twats like yourself and shattering their bones like fucking twigs. However, I'm in a spectacularly charitable mood today and just hope that you'll simply crawl off and wither away, like like your last dose of clap. If you hang around too long, I'll be forced to turn you into my bitch. I'd enjoy fucking you with a rusted branding iron. Nonstop sodomy and humiliation would be too good for you, but hell, everybody's gotta start somewhere. I'd like to take a meat cleaver and hack off your fucking arms and shove them up your loose, overfucked ass so that in the future, if you felt a need to post here again, you'd have to type out your bullshit with your toes. You might consider taking your act elsewhere, Satan. There are grown-ups talking here. As ever, you've got a right to say what you think. But we retain the right (a) not to give a flaming goddamn and (b) to think you're a gold-plated jackass. I'm a homo. You're straight. So what? There are a lot of different types of people in the world. Get over it. It's just not that big a deal. If you're intending to turn this into some sort of weird flame war, please try doing it on another thread. I want to keep this one free to discuss a set of issues that matters a lot to me right now. Hell, go ahead and open up a new conversation and take your best shot. Start the "Pilate's A Fag" thread and call me whatever you like. Knock yourself out. My level of caring about such things is pretty low. After all, online homophobes only exist for comic relief. I had a fairly serious matter I was going to bring up here, but with this sideshow going on, fuck it. It can wait.

Go Pilate!

for example, do they know who was using host0-253.birch.net on Monday, August 7, 2000 - 04:43 pm Sorabji time?

Right-on Pilate. Amen.

I can find out.

Pilate: Huzzah! Hey...wait a minute...*I'm* not a "grown-up"!

Seriously, though, about the boy: Can you possibly interest him in taking perhaps some classes at a community college? I hate normal school, and do quite poorly there, but I'm taking a math class at the comm. college this summer, and I am actually learning the stuff. I find it to be a much nicer environment. Perhaps something like that in combination with homeschooling...if he wants it.

Or are there any alternative schools available? We have a high school here that is marketed as a communty college - no uniforms and adults can take classes also. Apparently they have a high success rate with people who hated 'regular' school. you're doing a good thing Pilate.

I think that community college might be something to consider, but at a much later point. Right now, I don't think his reading levels are up to par. I'm also not sure that a group learning situation is appropriate at this time. A large part of Brendan's educational anxiety comes from fear of being teased. He can take a really long time to read a passage out of a book or work out a math problem. What I'm trying to do is keep him relaxed. I keep reminding him that there's no rush. Nobody is going to tease him. Classtime here never has a defined ending. He doesn't have to produce results by the top of the hour. I'd rather have him take a long time to read something and truly master it than to look at a lot of books in a frantically rushed, half-assed manner.....something I'm starting to feel is part of the problem with the educational system in general. I do worry about my newfound status as role model. When Trace (the guy I'm dating-not to be confused with the Trace who posts here) first introduced me to the boy, I was behaving like anything but a role model. I was being as evil as ever, in fact. But it soon became apparent that I had somebody really special on my hands and my behavior changed. It was just a natural shift into the position of caretaker. At first, my heart definitely wasn't in the right place. But it started getting there soon enough, in ways that surprised me. Things are moving fast around here. I already have Brendan as a roommate and see no change in that situation, which is good. Obviously, I want him here. He's safe here. I think that Trace may be moving in with me in a few weeks, and if he does, I welcome it. That would set up a household with two very loving adults. Trace and I work different hours sometimes, so someone could be home with the kid more often. Brendan's pretty self-sufficient but I still hate leaving him alone for really long periods. If I travel out of town, I take him with me when I can. I've suddenly shifted from bored, single guy into the position of pseudo-daddy and also having a man who, just yesterday, was whispering in my ear all this marvelous stuff about how much he loves me. Jesus. Things are moving fast but that's fine. It's how things often go for me. I'm a pretty impetuous type and tend to roll with change well. So far, the changes feel pretty good.

You deserve it hon:)

Thanx, J! Finally got kiddo packed off to bed. He's been kind of hyper today. Too much sugar or something. I don't mind, though. He's good company, even when he's yammering nonstop and giggling. Someday I ought to make a sound file of that giggle of his. It sounds like something out of a madhouse. I'm getting a bit concerned now about the "adult" side of my life and how it's going to relate to the boy. As I said above, I think this is about to become a three-person household. I think that's probably a good thing. But I was surprised by my concern about Brendan. I've been lonely for way the hell too long and could really use a lover right now, but I wouldn't take anyone who wasn't going to be good for the kid. It's some sort of primal instinct. I'm getting more protective than I ever thought I would. I've never been in the position of judging a potential lover in terms of how he'll get along with a third party. Fortunately, Trace and Brendan are buds. They get along great. The kid really wants him to move in. Chrissakes, he's already referring to us as "Daddy and Daddy" which is either endearing or scary. I didn't sire this pup. But it sure seems like it sometimes. I wonder how much privacy we're going to get. The kid wants to be with us at seemingly every moment. Tonight's lesson revolved more around the arts. Crimson loaned me a huge book on 20th Century art. To my surprise, the kid devoured it. He took it back to his bedroom, looking at all the cool pictures. He seems to like some pretty offbeat stuff. Kandinsky. Futurism. He was also liking Man Ray. He was touching the pictures in the book. He kept staring into them and touching them. It was kind of neat. I think he's getting turned on intellectually. He asked if he could get any of the pictures in a larger size to frame and keep. Crimson told him that Man Ray has an autobiography. The kid says he wants to read it. (I think this is a major step forward......he's never really done that before, asked specifically to read something). I hope the language isn't too complex. I'll get the book for him. Crimson's afraid that he'll become frustrated by it, as it might be a bit advanced for him. Crimson and I were talking about interdisciplinary humanities. Literature in conjunction with art, that sort of thing. It could be an intriguing educational model. Show him the pictures, get him turned on, have him read about artists or write about art history. Get him drawing, reading, writing, the whole thing. Make the educational experience as interconnected as possible. Art movements, literary movements, scientific movements, all tied in together. I think it might be a good basic approach.