Terrorists have declared war on America and we are going to have to defend ourselves. The only real choice we have is whether to fight it out now or to try to put off the war. Fighting a war on terrorism now may require fighting beyond Iraq & more anger towards the United States, at least in the short term. But the alternative is allowing a shadowy terrorist army, aided by rogue regimes hostile to the United States, to grow in strength and gather chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons for attacks at a times and locations of their choosing. When that attack comes, we will be forced to either fall to our knees or respond just as we are doing now against a more powerful and better-prepared foe. We have no reason to think that we'd have more support at a future date. In fact, we would likely have much less backing given that we would have already declared a war on terrorism once without following through. Either we will meet this challenge on our terms today or on the enemy's terms in the near future. The choice is ours.

isn't the 'final solution' the nazi term for the jewish genocide?

Well, it fits right in with all the other similarities to the Nazis on the path the Bush Regime is leading us down. The rhetoric is much the same.

For example

Nate, yes it is. I gave this thread the title How this got linked to Bush is beyond me. He never said anything about a final solution. I DID.... It is only inevitable. There will be absolutely no peace until one side or the other reaches the final solution. Isreal and Palistine are the prime examples. No agreement or accord or treaty will satisfy either side there. Palistinians still refer to Isreal as "occupied territory". And as long as Isreal exists, Palestinans will continue blowing themselves up in public places. As long as Palestinians blow themselves up in public places Isreal will continue military offensives. The final solution will be one side completely surrenders.

So, you want to exterminate everyone in the Arab world?

Uh, why even suggest such a horrid thing? Fuck no. And who is to say all terrorists and murderous dictators are Arabs? I know you have not said such a thing, why do you think I have?

He likes to pull your chain.

trace, you named the thread. So, you have suggested the horrible thing. "The final solution will be one side completely surrenders." This will never happen, of course.

Of course it wont. The Final Solution has yet to be found.

Trace, that you continue to use that phrase so uncritically makes me shudder. "The final solution will be one side completely surrenders." I am assuming that ideally this would be the side that good patriotic americans support. The good side...do you realize the association you are creating? Call me a liberal PC pundit all you want, but there is something to be said for how language shapes consiousness and trying to come up with better ways of expressing things, or least putting the phrase into a larger context, which may be you tried to do, but I fail to see this from your posts.

trace, why are you posting this?

Posting what? The fact that hitler supposedly used the phrase "final solution" makes that phrase mean genocide and nothing else? I see no evidence of that what so ever. Nor do I in any way condone such an outrageous act. As to "why" should be clear.

As usual, I find myself defending words rather then ideas.

Well, I'm for use of language in new and exciting ways, but the phrase "Final Solution" is inextricably linked with the Holocaust, so you will allude to that event in history when you use it, whether you are trying to make that allusion or not. That's just the way it is.

To ignore the cultural meaning of words is to ignore their meaning, period. So, you're saying that you should be able to use the exact same phrase Hitler used to describe his actions towards the Jews and not make any connection to Hitler's actions? And, how can you seperate words from ideas? "In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God and the Word was God." Do those words mean anything to you? Oh, and by "God" I mean to say "Saddam Hussein." I think you'd do well to defend words.

OK then Final: Forming or occurring at the end; last: Of or constituting the end result of a succession or process; ultimate: an act with both an immediate and a final purpose. Not to be changed or reconsidered; unalterable: Solution: A homogeneous mixture of two or more substances, which may be solids, liquids, gases, or a combination of these. The process of forming such a mixture. The state of being dissolved. The method or process of solving a problem. The answer to or disposition of a problem. Payment or satisfaction of a claim or debt. The act of separating or breaking up; dissolution. The Final Solution to Terrorism and Racist attacks: The method or process of solving a problem, Forming or occurring at the end of 3000 years of blood shed in the name of religion and power. OR The act of ultimate separating or breaking up of blood shed in the name of religion and power

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22Final+Solution%22 Sorry buddy, seems like you should probably admit to a poor use of rhetoric on this one.

And in case you feel like pointing out that there has been little evidence turning up a document or official proclamation declaring "The Final Solution" don't bother. That's not the point we are trying to make.

At the very least, don't capitalize Final Solution, for God's sake. And you could say, "the final answer," or something else like that.

For the record, Kazoo, I have never called you a liberal PC pundit. In fact, I respect your views very much.

OK then. I will admit that there does indeed appear to be a stigmatism to that phrase. I remember it being in many algebra books when I was in school. final answer. My point was that there is none, but I don't think peace demonstrations are it.

of course, "final answer" always brings regis's face to mind...

See? you can't win.

Sem?

This is my point. Damn, sometimes pictures are worth a thousand words

Thanks Spunkem. However, those with views similar to yours tend to stick me there, when in fact I am very aware of consequences of PC taken to the extreme and opposed to that kind of censorship. Open dialogue about the power of language is what I advocate and what we seemed to have going here for a bit. I don't understand the point of all these cartoons though...if they were photos or if they were funny...maybe.

Spunkem, Are you aware that there are whole schools of thought dedicated to non-violent conflict resolution? That there are actually some scholars and activists who (not out of disdain for American) have analyzed these problems, understand the workings of other cultures who might be able to actually help come up with democratic alternatives.

And I am not just talking about ahistorical, hippy pacifism either.

it's from last novemeber. and I don't agree with everything, but I think represents some good critical thinking about the situation, taking serious consideration for perspectives other than his own

I think we should apply the "Final Solution" to spunky.

No! That's just mean, tiggy-tiggy-boom-boom.

That's just mean.

Whoa.

damn. it's a sign.

Yeah, that Antigone was being a big, fat jerk! Well, big, anyway.

i think that people who whine about having to defend words instead of ideas should consider learning to better use words to communicate ideas. what, it's other people's fault that you communicate in a clumsy fashion? take some responsibility for your communications.

Just demonstrating that that phrase carries certain cultural connotations. btw, by "Final Solution" I meant "spread chocolate frosting all over." Carry on!

Now there's a definition of final solution we can all get behind.

OK maybe I can make this clear for you Jack. Fuck you, you ass. Clear enough for you?

that's pretty good, for you. maybe you can work up to some more complicated ideas someday. what's your problem?

Standard sorabji.com greeting, jack. Don't let some small cute furry animal crawl up your ass and die. Got it, fuck face?

"btw, by "Final Solution" I meant "spread chocolate frosting all over." I hate frosting!!!!! Can we find something yummier?

Who says you're gettin' any?

I agree with "Jack". We should all be more communacativeresponsible. That said,now: Fuck you,you ass.

I just thought that if you were going to make a mess of him, as usual, it would fall to me to clean it up.

question: if terrorists were to formally and clearly declare war, are they really terrorists anymore? when does it all become fair game? are there rules? can I get a scoresheet? Is there a die or a pop-o-matic bubble? I dont know anymore, but all I know is it must be a game, because Bush talks like he's playing fucking Dungeons and Dragons.

I wish he was, 'cause I've got an 18th level fighter/mage half ogre named Mrs. Krakelscrod who could kick his sorry white human ASS!

i'm sick of hearing people demanding alternatives from the anti-war side. Damnit, there are tons of reasons to be against the war, and sorry if every man, woman and child hasn't got an intense, typed-up thesis on the matter. Going in bombing and then asking "Well, what else were we SUPPOSED to do?! You got any bright ideas? Didn't think so. Eat yer freedom fries, buy yer duct tape." is bullshit. Like if your house had termites, and so you start randomly punching holes in the walls with a sledgehammer. Or baking several cherry pies, every hour on the hour. Or only wearing tin foil clothing. Now i don't know anything about geting rid of termites, and i couldn't tell you how, but i'm certain that these are not the best ways to do it.

As far as that goes, wisper, the point is this: If you dont have any ideas, don't bitch about those that do. The world has enough complainers. That's the problem with the entire dem party. All bitchen and no action. ever.

"If you dont have any ideas, don't bitch about those that do. The world has enough complainers." oh yes. I must have missed sign up for open forum day down at the whitehouse. Is there some kind of comment card you can send in? All those millions of damn lazy whiners with their little peace signs. Bitch bitch bitch.

Sorry Wisper, that's exactly my point. I think it is a legitimate question. "If you don't agree, what is your suggestion?"

if it was Bush's "last option before going to war", why didnt his administration present other options, like so many other countries did? If the US thought war might be necessary, and that going to war is "failure of diplomacy", doesnt it carry the responsibility to come up with some other solutions? It didnt. It left it to everyone else, and even then, the US wasnt listening. The only thing the US did was try to put forward another designed-to-fail resolution. the US didnt go to the UN to find an alternative to war, it went there to get its war rubber stamped, and you know it. Trace is right about the Dems. However the Reps? Shoot first ask (and for that matter, answer) questions later. How is that NOT the cowboy way? I mean JEEZ! If the US had even waited just a few more WEEKS the rest of the Al-Samoud2 missles would have been gone and something might have been worked out with Turkey! The administration couldnt even think ahead when it came to strategy! Bush went forward immediately hoping a quick war would shut everyone up. WHOOPS!! no wonder he looked so cranky that day... "as long as it takes, as long as it takes" Which is funny because now he's asking for others to show patience with him, when he wasnt patient in being a statesman AT ALL. Irony is kicking his ass all over the place. I think he believed that if after all those deadlines he didnt hold firm that the US would look "weak", which is stupid, because so long as the firepower is there, the US is never "weak". If anything, being smart and actually living up to his promise that WAR IS THE LAST OPTION gives power to him, and makes the US look merciful, which is a much larger sign of strength than parnanoically (i dont think thats a word... whatever) lashing out at whatever miniscule threat is there. Oh, and spunk, the termite argument there pretty much flushed your question straight down the toilet.

It seems to me that the anti-war folks offers lots of ideas, but since the pro-war folks are so gung ho for GI Joe, it's like talking to a brick wall. You can offer up all the suggestions in the world but it doesn't matter if those in power refuse to listen. (Hey, isn't that one of the roots of terrorism?)

Rowlf, I am sorry but the administration DID offer alternatives. 1. Voluntary Disarmament 2. Provide evidence if items already destroyed. 3. Exile 4. Full and complete disclosure of all items including scuds, which they did indeed have. Turkey said yes, then no, then yes, then no. They were still building the al-samouds at the same time they were destroying them. All of them could have been destroyed at the same time. And that is what came in to play here. Time. They have had plenty of time.

"it's like talking to a brick wall." nobody's gonna change anybody else's mind here.

that's an understatement.

"Final Solution" wow. rowlf "freedom fighters" or "terrorists"? depends on who's interests they are serving. CIA trains "freedom fighters" all the time in the very same tactics the resistance in Iraq is using, but since they are against us, they are terrorists. its all a bunch of fucking bullshit. trace your ignorant take on world politics is really fucking disturbing. seriously. i mean this thread is really a new low and thats about all I can say on the matter. this shit has ceased to matter to me, at least in this context.

maybe. coincindentally i just heard a reported nail Meyes and that cunt Victoria Clark with a question. "what makes iraqi fighters who don civilian clothes war criminals yet agents in Afghanistan donned civilian clothes all the time. Clothes specifically formulated to blend in with the populus, what thats difference?" Meyers starts the answer "of course Im not a lawyer...." then my phone rang. see? its bullshit. lies, deception, double standards, imperialism, and euphamisms. Im with get your war on, they better get that 5 mile long buffet. of course it would be our insensitive american asses who serve them Gyro Wrap trying to be culurally sensitive.

again, you all had better burn your algebra books straight away.

Oh, for God's sake, Trace, there is a world of difference between using "the final solution" in a mathematics textbook and "the Final Solution" when you're talking about human beings. Does that really need to be spelled out to you?

trace you should know you way the fuck out there when spider is using the "Oh for God's sake" she dont get feisty in these matters very often.

oh for fucks sake, where did I suggest genocide? where?

"The final solution will be one side completely surrenders. " Anthing there about rounding up entire populations? Anything there about gas chambers? anything there about race supremecy? No

"Uh, why even suggest such a horrid thing? Fuck no. And who is to say all terrorists and murderous dictators are Arabs? I know you have not said such a thing, why do you think I have?" that is all, cary on

Dude, you don't have to use the words "genocide" or "race war" or whatever. That's why I used the word "allusion" earlier -- when you call a thread "the Final Solution" and make a weirdly out of place rallying speech about fighting the enemy on their terms or ours, it makes some eyebrows shoot up painfully high. Anyway, I don't believe (and I'm sure none of us believes) you really think we need to wipe out all Muslims or all Iraqis.....I (and Kazoo and Sem and Antigone) are just saying you should watch the language you use, because it can make you sound like more of a nut than you really are. ;)

I think we should all make feather boa wall hangings for the troops so they can decorate their tents. Imagine how dreary their abodes must be.

Don't forget the wonderful ways you can arrange the desert wildflowers into a lovely arrangement. You can put them in an old pair of boots creating a lovely miliary motif, suitable for entertaining on all occasions out there in the wild!

"'The final solution will be one side completely surrenders. ' Anthing there about rounding up entire populations? Anything there about gas chambers? anything there about race supremecy? No" Yes. It's all in the word "complete" and the tactics you employ to attain completeness. To attain complete victory, sometimes we have to do painful things. If they know what's good for them, they'll give up now. We don't want to wipe them all out, but if they give us no choice, we must. It's the only way to complete victory.

Well, tiggy, kind of??? Look. I was looking for "anti-saddam" songs on bear share the other night. All i could find is "bomb saddam" songs. It made me sick. The took Tubthumber and changed it to Let's shoot saddam... I deleted it. It really did make me sick. And I am honestly ashamed of anyone who would "celebrate" the death of anyone. Even Bin Laden and Hussein. I honestly hate war. And who doesn't? I can stand the idea of killing anyone. But that does not mean that I do not realize that sometimes that is the only option left. The only way to remove some threats. The ones that will not resolve or remove themselves from threatening postions must be removed. Does not mean I like it, and I don't think it makes me a warmonger. I just know that you cannot discount force as a means to acheive peace.

Try to find Outkast's "Bombs Over Baghdad." It was recorded a few years ago.

"I can stand the idea of killing anyone." CAN'T dammit sorry

"I just know that you cannot discount force as a means to acheive peace." Did you see my link about Bush visiting Northern Ireland next week? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/2918761.stm) Now there's a nice counter-argument for "force as a means to peace."

to clarify, I never said that force was the only means to peace. just the last resort

gnucleus has that Outkast tune. i got it. those guys fuckin rock socks.... there's so much shittyass hip hop out there and those definitely stand far and above 90% of the other shit.

"just the last resort" Sure. They forced us into it. Right. Remember that the next time your kids say, "They MADE me do it!"

"EUPHRATES 'POISONED' US Marines found cyanide and mustard agents in high concentrations in the Euphrates River near Nassiriya in Iraq, television network MSNBC has reported. The network said a briefing from Marine officials was its source for the information. The agents were found during routine tests conducted to ensure the water being used is safe, MSNBC said. Neither Centcom officials in Qatar nor US military officials in Iraq have confirmed the MSNBC report. Mustard gas produces painful, long-lasting blisters and often leads to blindness, while cyanide kills by preventing blood from transporting oxygen." Source

you know you've posted shit before that turned out to be false. such as that chemical weapons factory found a couple of weeks ago that turned our to be nothing and that shit about several supicious boats in the persian gulf not responding to hails about a month ago. this is in no way to say whether or not i believe or disbelieve this report, but for now, thats all it is, a report which has little to do with the truth. god damn, give it up already. we can read the news for ourselves, stop with the play by play. its fucking annoying.

Fine. Maybe we should just ask the wizard, huh? Just don't loose those ruby red slippers or you will never get back to kansas, dot

heh. what a bunch of pussies. why doesn't everyone just say "i will only hear what i want to believe." and then we can stop this bullshit and go back to talking about important things. like getting drunk and fucking and smoking drugs and music and sunshine. because the sun is shining.

This makes me proud to be a Texan!! Sarah or tiggy, I am sure you have heard about this by now: Police: Husband Keeps Wife On Dog Chain

outkast do kick ass. hiphop is dead. long live outkast.

Honey, WTF is wrong with you? That wasn't even funny. OMG, if you are thinking of this one you are so dreaming! OMG.

i will only hear what i want to believe.

"Remember that the next time your kids say, "They MADE me do it!"" its like in westerns when the cowboy has a gun, throws it to someone else, demands them to "pick up the gun", then as they pick up the gun, the cowboy shoots him... turns to crowd: "you saw him. he had a gun" the US 'alternatives' 1. Voluntary Disarmament 2. Provide evidence if items already destroyed. 3. Exile 4. Full and complete disclosure of all items including scuds, which they did indeed have trace, are you telling me that ANY of those things would have prevented the US from invading Iraq? if they 'disarmed' or 'provided evidence', the US would never believe them anyway... and didnt. everytime iraq caved to any demand the US would just sit back and say "well they dont mean it"... then they said it was taking too long to prove they are disarming... if you look at both sides, while neither were totally cooperating with the UN, I can surely say that Iraq was actually being more cooperative in trying to come out of this peacefully. as for 'exile', even if Saddam and his sons left, you know damn well, DAMN WELL, that they would go in and occupy Iraq, fight whoever was left... and probably never believe that Saddam ever left in the first place, noting the many lookalikes Saddam has... none of those alternatives were reasonable solutions to the very country that proposed them. absolutely pathetic. now moving along: TERRORISM No 1 threat to American life? A bigger threat than.... DRUNK DRIVING? I dont know ANYONE who hasnt been affected by drunk driving, either having driven drunk, or known someone, or lost a family member. But what are you going to do about it? Ban liquor? No. Why? One, you only create more criminals... two, you go beyond being reasonable and trample on peoples rights. Its too far. Now that doesnt mean you dont go after drunk drivers. You find new ways to deter, or enforce, or prevent. But you know you have to be smart about it and not take peoples rights away, and not spend every day of your life afriad you might get hit by a driver. You dont stop driving ever again. You ACCEPT that theres a risk out there that you might get hit by someone who doesnt care for others, or even themselves. THATS LIFE. So I ask you then, why is anyone, ANYONE out there willing to give up so much, willing to kill, willing to go TOO FAR over a threat that could never be stopped, if it even exists at all. Theres so many more sensible things to battle, to be aware of, to protect the ones you love. THIS WAR FOR "SECURITY" MAKES NO SENSE

you can't defeat terrorism. as long as countries exist, and as long as people have different ideas, there will always be terrorism. Forever. This is reality.

Now it's getting really interesting...

Realize, this is the man Donald Rumsfeld wants to head up the next Iraqi Ministry of Intelligence.

HOw did we get to ww4? where was three???? "THIS WAR FOR "SECURITY" MAKES NO SENSE" It does, but beleive it or not, I am really begining to think this is about ISREAL'S security.....

World War III was a WCW wrestling pay per view. Kevin Nash taking on all comers in a 60 man, three ring battle royale? KABOOM!

Here's some stuff on the Isreali thing

Nate, what a fantastic idea... last night, iwent to a bar called the Atlantic Trap and Gill. hard core maritimes decore/clientel. almost everyone there was a DP. (the folks down east are far friendlier than the folk from the middle provinces.. it was a friend of mines birthday, and she wanted to see the band that was playing. They're called The Bucaneers and do mostly celtic stuff, and covers. I had already been drunk once (in the early afternoon) and was looking forward to doing it again, sooooo after many a guiness and many a rye (whiskey for you americanskys) I was having a grand ol' time, good tunes, good friends etc... The GF had some fantastic BC bud so on the way home we smoked a couple of Js and talked real loud about sex... You should hav e seen the look on the bus drivers face..hehehe... upon reaching the manse, I had an urge to check the lottery, its up to 25+ million.. and no I didn't win. Of course now im depressed so i had to smok another bowl which put me in the proper frame of mind for a fun filled evening of nasty, dirty fuckin.. now its late in the am and my dick is sore and the marks from the nipple clamps may never heal properly, oh well... (can't you tell im upset be this?? ;) ).

jezuz! BigKev's getting all graphic n' shit! you know what's worse than Jane & Finch, kevvy? Keele & Lawrence. I was born there, lived there till the mafia took over our 'hood when i was 4, but that's not the point. I went by there last week. On the way to wherever i was going i really had to go to the bathroom, so i decided that WalMart was the only option. Why didn't i fuckin wait a block for a Tim Hortons? Anyway. It was a sunday, and everyone with 5 kids was at WalMart, of course. And in their infinite planning wisdom they set up the tiny WalMart in the same parking lot as the BEER STORE. People were parking on the sidewalk and traffic medians. Never seen anything like it before. It was like a mall at christmas. I'm lucky i found a spot. It's madness inside WalMart, once i got past the Beer Store lineup, and the washrooms were in the basement. I went into the only stall that wasn't out of order. There was piss all over the seat and the floor. Why didn't i go when i left the house? There was also no toilet paper left, so someone had....wiped....shit... on the back of the toilet and the wall. yes, i really had to go. So i performed some sort of impressive squatting yoga move thing, and ran the hell out of there. I was actually surprised to see the car intact. i guess what i'm really trying to say is- thank you mom and dad for moving.

yeah thats some kinda crappy area, how bout regent park, or parkdale (6-10 yr ago).. man theres a bunch of crappy areas in TO... Do you go to the Festival on (of?) The Danforth? , you people not familiar with Toronto might recognize the Name from the Bare naked ladies song 'The old appartment' ... Do they still do that festival? last time i was there i must have eaten an entire lamb, and pig all by myself... so much good food.. if you dont mind me asking where do you live now?

Id also like to say that you should be very happy that there is no photo radar in ont anymore.. Got my first ticket out here the other day...man does that suck.... well what are you going to do?.. When i first moved, i was still driving like a torontonian, and pissing of just about every redneck that lives here, but since i put AB plates on my truck, i've had to curb my 'enthusiasm' somewhat. (although, apparently not enough)

"I was born there, lived there till the mafia took over our 'hood when i was 4," the image i got was of these giant italian men in smart red suits riding horses. honest to god, i've been very conscious of making too many canadian jokes ever since toronto, 2001. somewhere in my brain i just can shut the shit off, though.

"i've been very conscious of making too many canadian jokes ever since toronto, 2001".... Why what happened?

wisper told me it really hurt her feelings and she started to cry like a ninny. and then, when no one was looking, her burly canadian man-friend (who shall remain nameless) threw me up against a wall and did this akido-thing such that i was completely paralyzed and in absolute pain. he spit in my face and said 'enough with the fucking canadian jokes, eh, hoser?'

that's so accurate. i live in Oakville. ...fuckin' Oakville. Land of the affluent soccer moms. "Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children??!" You may not remember it, it's west of TO on the way to Hamilton. Beside Mississagua. And i can only pray that you've forgotten Hamilton by now. ...fucking Hamilton. i moved here for school, but once i graduated i couldn't even afford to move out. Now i'm hooked on the low low rent that's possible by letting out rooms to students. In a prime location. Get 5 people in a 3 bedroom townhouse, and my rent is so low, it's downright unfair. But i think we need to rent an extra fridge. They still do Taste of the Danforth, but i've never been. I liked photo-radar. I appreciate it's efficiancy. I still get excited when i go on the photo-toll highway, then they send you a pic of your car on it! Love that shit.

get we back to whats important here. nipple clamps, dick sores and drunk canadians.

Figures that swine would show back up right around a mention of sore dicks and clamps.

just something i wanted to point out to you spunk. its not really open for debate...just thought id bring the inconsistancy and inaccuracy to your attention: Smoking Gun Smoking Gun Turned Pesticide Im betting by tomorrow the pesticide story, already bumped from the yahoo front page will be all but vanished just like the mysterious boats, chemical "factory" and so on.

Sarin is a dirivitave of pesticide. and so is tabun. And right now there are 4 sites that are being looked at. one has 20 war heads filled with the shit. Also, "unnamed sources" have been touting the smoking gun. The Pentagon does not make such a claim until all the facts are known. Of course, my favorite of the day has been: With U.S. tanks rolling into central Baghdad, Iraq's information minister denied in a rooftop news conference Monday that the Americans were in the city, declaring: "Be assured Baghdad is safe, secure and great." "They are sick in their minds. They say they brought 65 tanks into center of city. I say to you this talk is not true. This is part of their sick mind," Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf said. "There is no presence of American infidels in the city of Baghdad at all." Sahhaf, speaking outside the Palestine Hotel to a crowd of foreign reporters, said amid sirens and clouds of dust that Saddam Hussein's forces had given invading coalition forces "poison and bitterness." "Their forces committed suicide by the hundreds. ... The battle is very fierce and God made us victorious. The fighting continues," he said. "Yesterday, we slaughtered them and we will continue to slaughter them." Sahhaf said coalition forces pushed one of the armored carriers and tanks into the city and "we killed most of them and we will get of rid of them soon. Baghdad will be their graveyard." Reacting to reports that the U.N. Security Council was to meet Monday, he called on the United Nations to denounce the war "before the United Nations becomes a place for prostitution under the feet of the Americans." Yup, you can take his words to the bank. These are the guys that have been swearing they have no banned weapons. We found mustard gas, sarin and cianide in the Euphreties, 20 warheads loaded with the crap, and the chemicals at the military training facility were burried, which is exactly where I told you they were. But I guess you have declared that it is not open for debate. I had planned to let this sleeping dog lie, until I read that part of your post.

The Iraqi information minister should have his own TV show -- he's hilarious. I love how snotty and insulting he can get while lying with a bare face. Someone made the comment that he's like that Jon Lovitz character, the Liar -- "yesss...the infidels have fallen into our trap...we're only pretending to flee screaming.....yeah, that's the ticket..."

he looks like this one guy I used to work with when I was a teenager cleaning up at the local hardware store, who'd get so upset and serious about everything. "We WILL finish sweeping by 9am. NO MICE will be found. THE WORKERS will enter and THEY WILL BE PLEASED. CUSTOMERS will NOTICE that we MOPPED THE SEASONAL AISLE and LIBERATED IT OF ITS PINE NEEDLES. ONWARD WE MARCH TO WASH THE RECEIVING BAY WINDOWS"

SORE DICK, NOT dick sores.... drunk canucks.. hehe I wish it wasn't monday that way I would be drunk and having a far better time of it than i am currently... I might add that the bruising is rather severe, (from the nip clamps) I think that those particular toys will be put away for a couple of weeks... Ya I know Oakville, dated a girl from there for a while (about a decade ago).. I lived in burlington, hamilton, stoney creek, toronto, etobicoke, mississauga, markham, unionville, huntsville... i think thats it for the horseshoe... I loved the 407 tons of space for speeding... and almost no cops (when I was on it, that is) If someone would tell me (if there is one planned yet) about the next Sorabjifest, i could then plan for a couple of days of drunken staggering to amuse my american friends....

sore dick, dick sores, it all smarts.

The Iraqi Information Minister has his own fansite! It's nifty: http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/

Sweet

I found this site votetoimpeach.org Impeachment? Probably wont happen, but its interesting to read about what these proposed articles include... here they are: _____________________________________ Articles of Impeachment of President George W. Bush and Vice President Richard B. Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, and Attorney General John David Ashcroft The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. - - ARTICLE II, SECTION 4 OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA President George W. Bush, Vice President Richard B. Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, and Attorney General John David Ashcroft have committed violations and subversions of the Constitution of the United States of America in an attempt to carry out with impunity crimes against peace and humanity and war crimes and deprivations of the civil rights of the people of the United States and other nations, by assuming powers of an imperial executive unaccountable to law and usurping powers of the Congress, the Judiciary and those reserved to the people of the United States, by the following acts: 1) Threatening Iraq with a first-strike war of aggression by overwhelming and indiscriminate force including specific threats to use nuclear weapons while engaged in a massive military build-up in surrounding nations and waters. 2) Authorizing, ordering and condoning direct attacks on civilians, civilian facilities and locations where civilian casualties are unavoidable. 3) Threatening the independence and sovereignty of Iraq by belligerently proclaiming an intention to change its government by force while preparing to assault Iraq in a war of aggression. 4) Authorizing, ordering and condoning assassinations, summary executions, kidnappings, secret and other illegal detentions of individuals, torture and physical and psychological coercion of prisoners to obtain false statements concerning acts and intentions of governments and individuals and violating within the United States, and by authorizing U.S. forces and agents elsewhere, the rights of individuals under the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. 5) Making, ordering and condoning false statements and propaganda about the conduct of foreign governments and individuals and acts by U.S. government personnel; manipulating the media and foreign governments with false information; concealing information vital to public discussion and informed judgment concerning acts, intentions and possession, or efforts to obtain weapons of mass destruction in order to falsely create a climate of fear and destroy opposition to U.S. wars of aggression and first strike attacks. 6) Violations and subversions of the Charter of the United Nations and international law, both a part of the "Supreme Law of the land" under Article VI, paragraph 2, of the Constitution, in an attempt to commit with impunity crimes against peace and humanity and war crimes in wars and threats of aggression against Afghanistan, Iraq and others and usurping powers of the United Nations and the peoples of its nations by bribery, coercion and other corrupt acts and by rejecting treaties, committing treaty violations, and frustrating compliance with treaties in order to destroy any means by which international law and institutions can prevent, affect, or adjudicate the exercise of U.S. military and economic power against the international community. 7) Acting to strip United States citizens of their constitutional and human rights, ordering indefinite detention of citizens, without access to counsel, without charge, and without opportunity to appear before a civil judicial officer to challenge the detention, based solely on the discretionary designation by the Executive of a citizen as an "enemy combatant." 8) Ordering indefinite detention of non-citizens in the United States and elsewhere, and without charge, at the discretionary designation of the Attorney General or the Secretary of Defense. 9) Ordering and authorizing the Attorney General to override judicial orders of release of detainees under INS jurisdiction, even where the judicial officer after full hearing determines a detainee is wrongfully held by the government. 10) Authorizing secret military tribunals and summary execution of persons who are not citizens who are designated solely at the discretion of the Executive who acts as indicting official, prosecutor and as the only avenue of appellate relief. 11) Refusing to provide public disclosure of the identities and locations of persons who have been arrested, detained and imprisoned by the U.S. government in the United States, including in response to Congressional inquiry. 12) Use of secret arrests of persons within the United States and elsewhere and denial of the right to public trials. 13) Authorizing the monitoring of confidential attorney-client privileged communications by the government, even in the absence of a court order and even where an incarcerated person has not been charged with a crime. 14) Ordering and authorizing the seizure of assets of persons in the United States, prior to hearing or trial, for lawful or innocent association with any entity that at the discretionary designation of the Executive has been deemed "terrorist." 15) Institutionalization of racial and religious profiling and authorization of domestic spying by federal law enforcement on persons based on their engagement in noncriminal religious and political activity. 16) Refusal to provide information and records necessary and appropriate for the constitutional right of legislative oversight of executive functions. 17) Rejecting treaties protective of peace and human rights and abrogation of the obligations of the United States under, and withdrawal from, international treaties and obligations without consent of the legislative branch, and including termination of the ABM treaty between the United States and Russia, and recission of the authorizing signature from the Treaty of Rome which served as the basis for the International Criminal Court.

Screw you guys, I'm goin home

shut up fatass

Bill Clinton: 'We're not inflicting pain on these fuckers,' 'When people kill us, they should be killed in greater numbers.' 'I believe in killing people who try to hurt you. And I can't believe we're being pushed around by these two-bit pricks.'" "All Too Human," page 214