| THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016). |
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check this out... http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/04/03/china.aircollision/top.us.china.plane.jpg but this syncopation of events in this matter are turning out to be hot damn! |
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"go ahead...make my 1 term presidency" |
patrick, maybe you could give us the mainstream liberal view point. personally, i'm befuddled. the US crew should have ditched that plane in the ocean. that used to be the protocol. it's bad news to have spy craft boarded. and what's with all these media people, even the bush-hating leftist talkshow hosts, saying "Bush is handling this very well. Bush is doing a great job with this china debacle." Uh, what exactly is Bush doing that's so great? Aside from tossing lies around ("This is our plane. It is our territory. You may not board it without our permission." ... uh, you landed a military plane in another country.) Remember that MiG in the 70's? We sent that back to Russia in crates. so what the fuck IS going on? why do we care more about the lives of 24 people who swore to lay down their lives to protect the US than the national security risk we've parked on a chinese military island? |
the crew could have ditched it in the ocean but most likely they would have died. put yourself in their situation and see how kamikaze you'd be. you can be pretty damn sure that a lot of the data and what not was destoryed or tossed out. I don't suspect there is a whole lot to be gained from having this plane. I could be wrong, but i have a feeling. Hell for all we know, this could have totally been a set up fromthe get go and thats why the crew didnt ditch the plane. it has potential to be a Tonkin Bay. You know, I don't think our military makes as many mistakes as we often think. Our intelligence MUST be doing a decent job otherwise we'd have bombs going off at every major sporting event every week. How easy would it be to pop a vile of anthrax in any given subway? its not hard so they must be doing a decent job. i also wonder about that fishing boat/submarine incident. If the plane was indeed in International waters then they are right....the plane is indeed US property, treated like an embassy. Obiviously they are behaving just like we would. The problem is, know one knows the truth in these matters. Im willing to bet, it was playing cat and mouse, just inside or just outside Chinese territory...and indeed the Crusader bumped it. My knowledge of aircraft makes what they saying totally plausible. those big ass planes don't make sudden moves, and the F-8, though a 60s era attack craft, can be quite nimble. I dont know about the mig in the 70s but would be curious about it. I think the leftist media is kissin his ass, because they truly fear this could turn out to be something. Not wanting to fan the flames maybe? Who knows. I don't think its going to develop into anything other than words....we have too much at stake in terms of business with them, including me personally. |
besides, ditching in the ocean would probably have killed no one. nice warm seas, big ol' prop plane making a belly landing on the calm waters. a US ship would be out to pick them up in no time. but even if it involved killing all the crew, that's their job. In 1976 this rooski named Victor landed a MiG-25 in Japan. we took that MiG apart, examined it carefully, and sent it back to the russians in multiple boxes. |
They should have headed for Australia. We would have had a cold beer waiting for them. The Chinese are going to let this plane go, they're just strutting around and Bush is just stroking his crotch. I hardly think there would be any equipment on board you couldn't buy for a few hundred greenbacks in Taiwan. And what gives the US the right to be spying on the Chinese anyway? Personally, I think the Chinese bumped the plane deliberately, and I don't really blame them. |
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Funny that we expell the Russians and the Russians expell the Americans, and now this. There's no margin in aggravating the powerless Eastern block, but tangling with China can screw with the economy really fine. I wonder what/where/who next...like Johnson pondering the real reason for Vietnam involvement. Are these old ploys to stimulate the economy, to generate nationalist solidarity? Or just idiotic mistakes. Subs don't run into fishing boats, planes don't run afoul on routine missions. Somethin's afoot I tell ya. I think that's the skinny. That and Bush needs something to have the public focus on while he dismantles years of diplomacy home and abroad. |
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oof. |
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bush is too. watch bush walking across the whitehouse lawn, with that funny little supressed smile. you can see in his eyes that he's thinking "i'm the fucking president, man. i'm the FUCKING president." he has the mind of a child, but he's definitely human. |
China is a very formidable opponent.More people per capita,than any other country,[means an unending supply of soldiers],their education system is superior to ours,[now,there's alot of them,and their smart].Buddism is the primary religion,they believe in "honor",not afraid to "die for the cause".Not a particularily wealthy country,but they have many mid-eastern allies,[who all hate America],and have plenty of oil bucks to blow on weapons,etc. Were it a mid-eastern country,I wouldn't be as concerned,because China would be hesitant to go against America.But as its China,the mid-easterners won't hesitate to jump on the band wagon. Nothing boosts an economy like a war.This makes politicians look good. Why didn't they destroy the plane?Was this perhaps a planned maneuver? There are too many variables here.This has me very uncomfortable. What is America saying?"I don't want to play anymore,give me back my plane." It doesn't work that way. |
china has the same number of people per capita as any other country on earth. |
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it's people anyway i think we all need to travel more |
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in an open sea war, we would crush them. in a guerilla typer scenario, they'd crush us. a prop plane landing in the ocean would not go over well there mister nate. belly landings don't work that way in water much less with prop planes. they dropped nearly 8000 ft in a matter of seconds, have you ever felt g-forces? if the photos are accurate, they lost their radar systems, which are in the nose of the craft. They may not have been able to find their way to Australia or anywhere else more politically friendly. To bust their balls saying they should have destroyed the craft is crap. In war time, it would have been more likely, but in peacetime...come on. Tried for treason? christ man! They were doing routine surveylance, nothing other countries don't do to us, and we don't do to other countries. All they do is fly the permiter of the country, make the defenses turn on their radar, send up fighters and then monitor the radio waves. Its a real simple thing, nothing new, nothing threatening. "Were it a mid-eastern country,I wouldn't be as concerned,because China would be hesitant to go against America.But as its China,the mid-easterners won't hesitate to jump on the band wagon." Don't let paranoia eat you up czarina. The worst that will come of this is a war of words. China needs US support to for many other worldly agendas. They backed themselves in the corner when they immediately said it was our fault. In all likelyhood, their fighter pilot got too cocky and aggressive. I love that "god dammit Im the president MAN!!!!" assessment of bush nate, thats good. J, the chinese are human, my wife has been there and verified this. ITS TRUE!! I read a great article recently in the washington post about the fact that Bush will seek to make a true and clear enemy out of China. It's beneficial to him across the board. Other than Bush sr. and Clinton, we have always had Russia as the bi evil empire. When that ceased, we had little shits like Saddam, Iran, N. Korea, Milosovic....small fries. In order to push through many of the ancillary agendas, yes, Bush is going to make a clear enemy out of China. I knew this months ago with his intent with the missle defense program and the Taiwan issue. |
nobody got my allusion |
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the 12 miles to international waters does not apply to military aircraft. the US claims 200 miles, and will scramble jets and tell any military who enters 200 miles of our coasts to btfo. what happened in the air is not totally clear to either side. the chinese fighter went down and is probably dead. the damage to the EP-3 is in the nose and wing... so the EP-3 definitely hit the chinese F-8. If the F-8 stuck it's ass in the EP-3's face in such a way that the EP-3 couldn't avoid the collision or if the EP-3 hit the F-8 on purpose is not clear. if a foreign spy plane landed in your military base, would you hand it back right away? who knows, it could still be recording all sorts of neat-o data. furthermore, wouldn't you want to conduct and investigation as to the cause of the collision? if the tables were turned, the only thing different would be the general US perception that everything is A-OK. |
they speculate the damage to wing happened when the chunk from the nose flew back. i really don't think that big ass plane could have rammed or hit the fighter in an aggressive way. i really think the chinese figher was probably messing with it....and cut it too close. at this point i would say keep the plane. they could send it back with some sort of deadly virus or invasive mico species that reaks havoc on our rice crop....making us dependent on rice...Chinese rice heh...the rice conspiracy. |
she is such a fucking moron. but it's nice to know that we're permitting all this crap. what's that line in the talmud about the soul being wieghed not only on what you have done, but what you haven't ? |
We have an excuse to replace an entire class of spy plane and intelligence equipment. The Chinese can get some new technology and stand up to the evil American empire. The Shrub has learned a lot about trading arms with enemies of the United States. Of course, he had the mistakes of his father (Iran-Contra) and Clinton (various Chinagate stuff) to learn from. Wanna get it done right? Do it in full view of the world. |
they only way they could give us a serious run for our money, is do what th N.Vietnamese did...lob serious numbers of inferior aircraft and weapons at us. |
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Frankly,I would have done the same thing,save my own ass.But,I didn't take a position in espionage,and they did,and I'm sure they were well trained and knew the risks. And Nate is 100% correct in his assessment of the situation. Reverse the positions,and theres no way in hell we'd give it back.Thats what the spy business is all about.Spying.What a treat for the Chinese,to have this little gem drop into their laps. Bush is indeed a boob.And I don't think there is anything else that needs to be said about him. Some of his "sublimimimable"thoughts cause me distress. Don't under estimate the Chinese,they present as a formidable opponent. |
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this was important because it would give their air force a better way to mount offensive air campaigns as opposed primarily defensive. |
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lovely CZ, in someone else's islands too. Sorry, but the media only give us morons what they are told to give us. Jaded journalist that I am. The whole incident prolly was planned prior to the election debacle. The "dead" Chinese pilots are also prolly having a cold Japanese microbrew manufactured in the Southern US by illegal Mexicans in radioactive cans stolen from the goats and labelled by the parrots. It's a conservation conspiracy. wtf? My son tells me really good Keefer goes for $140 a gram. The US is in the wrong business. |
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christ woman! (actually i think someone once sent me a video clip of a naked sky diver, and man his unit was just flapping like a piece of paper in a tornado) |
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