YES! quickly......


sorabji.com: Are there any news?: YES! quickly......
THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016).

By patrick on Tuesday, April 3, 2001 - 06:03 pm:


By Dougie on Tuesday, April 3, 2001 - 06:25 pm:

    Yeah, I can feel the syncopation. I really can. Kind of goes "Bu-bu bu bu bu bu bu bu bu-bush-chi chi chi chi chi chi chi chi-china-bu bu bu bu bu bu bu bu bu-bush-flag flag flag flag flag flag flag flag-bush" etc.


By Nate on Tuesday, April 3, 2001 - 06:36 pm:

    that's not syncopation, foo! buchishna!


By patrick on Tuesday, April 3, 2001 - 06:42 pm:

    he's got that look

    "go ahead...make my 1 term presidency"


By Nate on Tuesday, April 3, 2001 - 06:47 pm:

    so break this down. what is going on with this china airplane mishap?

    patrick, maybe you could give us the mainstream liberal view point.

    personally, i'm befuddled.

    the US crew should have ditched that plane in the ocean. that used to be the protocol. it's bad news to have spy craft boarded.

    and what's with all these media people, even the bush-hating leftist talkshow hosts, saying "Bush is handling this very well. Bush is doing a great job with this china debacle."

    Uh, what exactly is Bush doing that's so great? Aside from tossing lies around ("This is our plane. It is our territory. You may not board it without our permission." ... uh, you landed a military plane in another country.) Remember that MiG in the 70's? We sent that back to Russia in crates.

    so what the fuck IS going on? why do we care more about the lives of 24 people who swore to lay down their lives to protect the US than the national security risk we've parked on a chinese military island?


By patrick on Tuesday, April 3, 2001 - 07:31 pm:

    eat poop boy. i'll give you my opinion. you feel free to align it.

    the crew could have ditched it in the ocean but most likely they would have died. put yourself in their situation and see how kamikaze you'd be. you can be pretty damn sure that a lot of the data and what not was destoryed or tossed out. I don't suspect there is a whole lot to be gained from having this plane. I could be wrong, but i have a feeling. Hell for all we know, this could have totally been a set up fromthe get go and thats why the crew didnt ditch the plane.


    it has potential to be a Tonkin Bay.

    You know, I don't think our military makes as many mistakes as we often think. Our intelligence MUST be doing a decent job otherwise we'd have bombs going off at every major sporting event every week. How easy would it be to pop a vile of anthrax in any given subway? its not hard so they must be doing a decent job.

    i also wonder about that fishing boat/submarine incident.

    If the plane was indeed in International waters then they are right....the plane is indeed US property, treated like an embassy. Obiviously they are behaving just like we would. The problem is, know one knows the truth in these matters. Im willing to bet, it was playing cat and mouse, just inside or just outside Chinese territory...and indeed the Crusader bumped it. My knowledge of aircraft makes what they saying totally plausible. those big ass planes don't make sudden moves, and the F-8, though a 60s era attack craft, can be quite nimble.

    I dont know about the mig in the 70s but would be curious about it.

    I think the leftist media is kissin his ass, because they truly fear this could turn out to be something. Not wanting to fan the flames maybe? Who knows. I don't think its going to develop into anything other than words....we have too much at stake in terms of business with them, including me personally.


By Nate on Tuesday, April 3, 2001 - 09:16 pm:

    there are self destruct buttons on spy subs so that if they run into trouble they can vaporize the crew and everything else.

    besides, ditching in the ocean would probably have killed no one. nice warm seas, big ol' prop plane making a belly landing on the calm waters. a US ship would be out to pick them up in no time.

    but even if it involved killing all the crew, that's their job.

    In 1976 this rooski named Victor landed a MiG-25 in Japan. we took that MiG apart, examined it carefully, and sent it back to the russians in multiple boxes.


By Cat on Tuesday, April 3, 2001 - 11:02 pm:

    I'm glad I don't work for Nate.

    They should have headed for Australia. We would have had a cold beer waiting for them.

    The Chinese are going to let this plane go, they're just strutting around and Bush is just stroking his crotch.

    I hardly think there would be any equipment on board you couldn't buy for a few hundred greenbacks in Taiwan.

    And what gives the US the right to be spying on the Chinese anyway? Personally, I think the Chinese bumped the plane deliberately, and I don't really blame them.


By Nate on Tuesday, April 3, 2001 - 11:22 pm:

    uh duh, the US spies on everyone for the safety of global society.


By dave. on Tuesday, April 3, 2001 - 11:28 pm:

    barf.


By Daniel ssss on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 12:52 am:

    They had special goats on board, ones that can sniff out Chinese cabbage disguised as international spies, goats bred like no technogoat before them.

    Funny that we expell the Russians and the Russians expell the Americans, and now this. There's no margin in aggravating the powerless Eastern block, but tangling with China can screw with the economy really fine. I wonder what/where/who next...like Johnson pondering the real reason for Vietnam involvement.

    Are these old ploys to stimulate the economy, to generate nationalist solidarity? Or just idiotic mistakes. Subs don't run into fishing boats, planes don't run afoul on routine missions.

    Somethin's afoot I tell ya.

    I think that's the skinny. That and Bush needs something to have the public focus on while he dismantles years of diplomacy home and abroad.


By Antigone on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 01:07 am:

    I'm so hungry I could fart out a complete wicker dinette set.


By Nate on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 01:48 am:

    an apple and a six pack is no kinda dinner.


    oof.


By J on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 11:01 am:

    I'm afraid of China,they aren't human,and now I'm getting afraid of Bush,he might not be either.


By Nate on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 11:07 am:

    the chinese are human.

    bush is too.

    watch bush walking across the whitehouse lawn, with that funny little supressed smile. you can see in his eyes that he's thinking "i'm the fucking president, man. i'm the FUCKING president."

    he has the mind of a child, but he's definitely human.


By Czarina on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 11:27 am:

    The 24 on board the aircraft knew what they were doing,they chose their field of work,they knew the risks.It is beyond my comprehension that they allowed this aircraft to fall into the hands of the Chinese.If they return to the states,they should be tried for treason.Obviously,the aircraft was there spy on them,we've admitted that.Who knows what type of equipment that craft carried.
    China is a very formidable opponent.More people per capita,than any other country,[means an unending supply of soldiers],their education system is superior to ours,[now,there's alot of them,and their smart].Buddism is the primary religion,they believe in "honor",not afraid to "die for the cause".Not a particularily wealthy country,but they have many mid-eastern allies,[who all hate America],and have plenty of oil bucks to blow on weapons,etc.

    Were it a mid-eastern country,I wouldn't be as concerned,because China would be hesitant to go against America.But as its China,the mid-easterners won't hesitate to jump on the band wagon.

    Nothing boosts an economy like a war.This makes politicians look good.

    Why didn't they destroy the plane?Was this perhaps a planned maneuver?

    There are too many variables here.This has me very uncomfortable.

    What is America saying?"I don't want to play anymore,give me back my plane."

    It doesn't work that way.


By Nate on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 11:35 am:

    "More people per capita"

    china has the same number of people per capita as any other country on earth.


By Czarina on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 11:40 am:

    well,yes,but theres more of them.


By heather on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 11:53 am:

    capita is people
    it's people



    anyway
    i think we all need to travel more


By droopy on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 11:59 am:

    czarina meant that one chinese is worth three lazy, stupid american pigs. but only 1 and 3/4 JEWS, THE CHOSEN PEOPLE.


By Czarina on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 12:09 pm:

    {sorry guys,I'm in the middle of a most entertaining conversation with J,and damn,its hard to concentrate on world problems,when J is giving me personal advice]


By patrick on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 12:43 pm:

    the chinese have numbers, we have technological superiority.

    in an open sea war, we would crush them. in a guerilla typer scenario, they'd crush us.

    a prop plane landing in the ocean would not go over well there mister nate. belly landings don't work that way in water much less with prop planes. they dropped nearly 8000 ft in a matter of seconds, have you ever felt g-forces? if the photos are accurate, they lost their radar systems, which are in the nose of the craft. They may not have been able to find their way to Australia or anywhere else more politically friendly.

    To bust their balls saying they should have destroyed the craft is crap. In war time, it would have been more likely, but in peacetime...come on.
    Tried for treason? christ man! They were doing routine surveylance, nothing other countries don't do to us, and we don't do to other countries. All they do is fly the permiter of the country, make the defenses turn on their radar, send up fighters and then monitor the radio waves. Its a real simple thing, nothing new, nothing threatening.


    "Were it a mid-eastern country,I wouldn't be as
    concerned,because China would be hesitant to go against America.But as its China,the mid-easterners won't hesitate to jump on the band wagon."

    Don't let paranoia eat you up czarina. The worst that will come of this is a war of words. China needs US support to for many other worldly agendas. They backed themselves in the corner when they immediately said it was our fault. In all likelyhood, their fighter pilot got too cocky and aggressive.


    I love that "god dammit Im the president MAN!!!!" assessment of bush nate, thats good.

    J, the chinese are human, my wife has been there and verified this. ITS TRUE!!

    I read a great article recently in the washington post about the fact that Bush will seek to make a true and clear enemy out of China. It's beneficial to him across the board. Other than Bush sr. and Clinton, we have always had Russia as the bi evil empire. When that ceased, we had little shits like Saddam, Iran, N. Korea, Milosovic....small fries.
    In order to push through many of the ancillary agendas, yes, Bush is going to make a clear enemy out of China. I knew this months ago with his intent with the missle defense program and the Taiwan issue.


By heather on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 12:47 pm:

    hmph

    nobody got my allusion


By Carlos on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 12:51 pm:

    i got it heather, and i laughed.


By patrick on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 01:01 pm:

    im literal minded. i don't get much. i suspected you were saying with these kinds of worldly issues we don't know what we are talking about because we arent that well traveled.


By Nate on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 01:06 pm:

    i still think china is doing the right thing. certianly, we'd do the same.

    the 12 miles to international waters does not apply to military aircraft. the US claims 200 miles, and will scramble jets and tell any military who enters 200 miles of our coasts to btfo.

    what happened in the air is not totally clear to either side. the chinese fighter went down and is probably dead. the damage to the EP-3 is in the nose and wing... so the EP-3 definitely hit the chinese F-8. If the F-8 stuck it's ass in the EP-3's face in such a way that the EP-3 couldn't avoid the collision or if the EP-3 hit the F-8 on purpose is not clear.

    if a foreign spy plane landed in your military base, would you hand it back right away? who knows, it could still be recording all sorts of neat-o data.

    furthermore, wouldn't you want to conduct and investigation as to the cause of the collision?

    if the tables were turned, the only thing different would be the general US perception that everything is A-OK.


By patrick on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 01:16 pm:

    oh no, i agree, the chinese are doing exactly what we would do.

    they speculate the damage to wing happened when the chunk from the nose flew back. i really don't think that big ass plane could have rammed or hit the fighter in an aggressive way. i really think the chinese figher was probably messing with it....and cut it too close.


    at this point i would say keep the plane. they could send it back with some sort of deadly virus or invasive mico species that reaks havoc on our rice crop....making us dependent on rice...Chinese rice heh...the rice conspiracy.


By Nate on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 01:28 pm:

    i heard congresswoman Nancy Pulossi on NPR this morning. she was talking about how we've permitted china to proliferate nuclear weapons to rogue nations and commit grevious human rights violations. how we've turned our head and let it slide. but this is too much.

    she is such a fucking moron. but it's nice to know that we're permitting all this crap.

    what's that line in the talmud about the soul being wieghed not only on what you have done, but what you haven't ?


By Antigone on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 01:40 pm:

    This is a win-win for both sides.

    We have an excuse to replace an entire class of spy plane and intelligence equipment.

    The Chinese can get some new technology and stand up to the evil American empire.

    The Shrub has learned a lot about trading arms with enemies of the United States. Of course, he had the mistakes of his father (Iran-Contra) and Clinton (various Chinagate stuff) to learn from. Wanna get it done right? Do it in full view of the world.


By patrick on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 01:45 pm:

    im not sure how much technology they are gonna get from that plane. certainly not enough to stand up to us. christ they are still flying f-8s.

    they only way they could give us a serious run for our money, is do what th N.Vietnamese did...lob serious numbers of inferior aircraft and weapons at us.


By Nate on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 01:51 pm:

    uh, patrick... they could knock out our major cities with ICBMs.


By patrick on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 02:07 pm:

    sure, im aware of that. but they won't. they won't bear that burden to the rest of the world to be the first nation launch ICBMs.


By Czarina on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 02:09 pm:

    I meant tried for treason,because I feel sure there was a clause in their contracts,with something to the effect of,"Don't let our nifty high-tech spy equipment fall into enemy hands".

    Frankly,I would have done the same thing,save my own ass.But,I didn't take a position in espionage,and they did,and I'm sure they were well trained and knew the risks.

    And Nate is 100% correct in his assessment of the situation.

    Reverse the positions,and theres no way in hell we'd give it back.Thats what the spy business is all about.Spying.What a treat for the Chinese,to have this little gem drop into their laps.

    Bush is indeed a boob.And I don't think there is anything else that needs to be said about him.
    Some of his "sublimimimable"thoughts cause me distress.

    Don't under estimate the Chinese,they present as a formidable opponent.


By patrick on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 02:10 pm:

    besides a launch from them equals 10 from us, and vice versa. i don't think anyone in a modern day conflict is going to be launching nukes, its suicide.


By cyst on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 02:19 pm:

    the top half of the front page of the current usa today (all I ever see of it outside airplanes) is even more ridiculously pro-bush than usual.


By patrick on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 02:55 pm:

    a coworker just pointed out, that a Chinese electronic/aviation co. (say like Boeing ) happens to have an airfield right next to the one they landed at. It thats true makes you wonder how much of an accident this was.




By J on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 03:37 pm:

    you all forget that Clinton gave the Chinese alot of our technology.


By Nate on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 03:46 pm:

    SOLD. clinton SOLD the chinese a lot of our technology.


By patrick on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 03:49 pm:

    im not sure if the deal went through, but Israel was to sell AWACS technology to the Chinese. Technology we had sold to Israel. Double crossing bastards.

    this was important because it would give their air force a better way to mount offensive air campaigns as opposed primarily defensive.


By J on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 06:24 pm:

    I stand corrected,Nate's right that bastard Clinton sold our technology.


By Czarina on Thursday, April 5, 2001 - 12:12 am:

    Yes,it seems Clinton frequently had his hands in someone elses pie.


By Daniel ssss on Thursday, April 5, 2001 - 12:53 am:

    and since the Fish and Wildlife people come under the Executive Branch of the feds, for some unapparent reason no one can say, Clinton also (like his predecessors) sold alot of little islands and coral atolls and otherwise "worthless" lands belonging secondly to the US taxpayer and firstly to the indigenous natives of some foreign entities stolen from... like the Howland Islands and the stuff off the Florida keyes... to many ex presidents' fishing buddies...

    lovely CZ, in someone else's islands too.

    Sorry, but the media only give us morons what they are told to give us. Jaded journalist that I am. The whole incident prolly was planned prior to the election debacle. The "dead" Chinese pilots are also prolly having a cold Japanese microbrew manufactured in the Southern US by illegal Mexicans in radioactive cans stolen from the goats and labelled by the parrots.

    It's a conservation conspiracy. wtf?

    My son tells me really good Keefer goes for $140 a gram. The US is in the wrong business.


By patrick on Thursday, April 5, 2001 - 12:00 pm:

    im willing to bet that Chinese pilot was able to bailout....he was picked up...and I'm thinking the CIA was onboard that plane...and Im thinking the whole event was orchestrated to get that plane where it is...to cause a "crisis" to make an enemy of the Chinese. We all know the benefits of a cold war to the military sector of business. Reagan Reagan Reagan!!!!


By Czarina on Thursday, April 5, 2001 - 12:03 pm:

    But did the Chinese pilot have pubic hair?


By patrick on Thursday, April 5, 2001 - 12:21 pm:

    can imagine what a 10kft + parachute drop would do to one's bare dingy?


    christ woman!



    (actually i think someone once sent me a video clip of a naked sky diver, and man his unit was just flapping like a piece of paper in a tornado)


By Czarina on Thursday, April 5, 2001 - 01:08 pm:

    Well,on the upside,it seems I recall someone telling me that Orientals weren't,er,"well endowed",so maybe it wasn't too bad for him. :)


By Daniel of the Slant eyed Goat on Friday, April 6, 2001 - 12:37 am:

    haha hoho hee hee said the Chink. It's not how well endowed, it's how capable, feet first... I am thinking that I am glad I don't have cable, don't watch TV, and get all my nightly entertainment from the Sorabji network.


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