| THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016). |
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and this? the latter is particularly interesting to note because his Papa left office nearly 12 years ago making that administrations doing public via the Freedom of Information Act. Inparticular to people who voted for this guy, id like pose the question, again, WHY? Eri, Trace, J...im looking in your direction. |
The second is just Bush's way to protect government secruity secrets. Remember Ronald Reagan is still alive but suffers from Alsimers. Some of the Reagan documents could put valuable US intelegence sources in jeperdy. (I know it's mispelled) |
Its called checks and balances DOOD!!!!! They have a Constitutional right to request such documents. Its in no one's best interest to micro-manage, but its in everyone's best interest to use our system of checks and balances. Thats why these requests come from committees, not individuals. The system of establishing committees within our legistlative branch doesnt allow them to micro manage. And if you really think these measures are being passed in the name of national security (could they use that excuse pre 9/11? doubtful) your a fool. Nobody working in our government wants to reveal information that can potentially compromise national security man. They are only using that as a guise. The problem is, even someone requesting information on domestic issues or internal matters unrelated to security all together would be prevented from accessing it, despite the Freedom of Information Act. The majority of Bush's cabinet worked for his dad. Many even worked for the Regan administration. The health of Reagan has nothing to do with the release of documents either to Congressional committees or individuals under the Freedom of Information Act. Reagan is not the one to say "yes" or "no" to a documents release. |
I don't really understand the links, I haven't had the time to really read them, but based on your last post I have some questions. Have you ever had a secret? Can I have documentation of said secret? If it has nothing to do with money (i.e. checks and balances) do I have the right to ask for said secret? Is it ethical of me to ask this of you? Maybe we differ. (Again I don't have an understanding of what Bush has done as of yet). BUt I do tend to think that some things (freedom of information act or not) are none of my business. |
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it has nothing to do with money. if you can't or won't read the articles, I can't possibly answer your questions as they are totally irrelavent. I believe in congressional committee review. One of the key domestic issues (i.e. unrelated to national security) that Congress is looking to investigate (But Bush is blocking) is the on-goings of Cheney, Enron and US energy department doings in recent years. It's important that we get full disclosure on shit like that, and hope the sue the white house to get the disclosure the public needs. Its essential to prevent the executive branch from completely running away with power. |
Lighten up, dude. |
but just imagine if we attempted to have a conversation about indie music spider and I had the notion that indie music is music from Indiana. |
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and contain foul language. |
2) Come on! Y'all have to admit that wasn't very nice. 3) Dammit, why won't people just go to the freakin' office party already, so I can sneak out and go home? |
i meant it as plain jane as can be. she asked me questions. but since she didn't read the articles, and the questions clearly indicate she didnt read them, its futile to answer them. There was no evil intent in that statement to her. |
And why does my boss come in here and start debating whether the 12th or the 15th century was more technologically advanced, when he should be at that party so I can leave?? ARGH. |
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The Office of the President of the United States. Or, the former President who generated the documents. This is a hairy issue. It used to be assumed that the documents belonged to the nation. Therefore, they came under the authority of the Office of the President. Now, almost every President grabs everything and stuffs all "their" papers in their Presidential Library. I call that an interesting legal question. |
jesusfrigginchrist spider calm down. they way i see it watcher, the doings of a president, in terms of policy belongs to the people. we arent talking about personal documents here. we are speaking of documents pertaining to the business of the US. the business papers of an employee belong to the company, not the employee who has occupied the cube a for a span of time. |
You are right Patrick. But, former presidents seem to think that if it came out of the White House during their term it belongs to them. They clean house very quickly at the end of their terms. |
Spider was correct. You were rude to Eri. She was a bit ditzy in her response, but who isn't sometimes? Mind you, I probably would have been just as mean to her. Spider shames us all with her compassion and tolerance. |
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Thats a shocker. |
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i bet she meant to say "can't". |
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a wise man once said that we hardly ever find people of good sense save those who share our opinion. i'm not saying i actually know. i'm saying i'm a betting man. if it's a freudian slip that she'll admit to, it still counts in my favor. |
Thats information I wish they had kept secret. I just can't seem to move past that. |
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I have two very active children and a house and a husband and many other things I have to take care of. I have a very limited amount of time I can spend on the computer. I am sorry if it offends you that I don't have time to sit and read through all kinds of links and make sure I get a clear understanding of them, but frankly, I don't have the time. I have more important things to do. As far as what "Bush" is blocking as far as information, I really don't know enough about it to comment on that specifically. I don't have the time to sit around and pick apart all of these things. I don't have time to research and complain about every step taken by our government. It could very well be that he is in the wrong, but I just don't know. I get tired of defending myself. I don't shit on any of you for having different opinions. |
If you can't take the shit, get out of the Sorabji. If you can't take a joke, take it out on Antigone. |
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(cat i can take you on 1,2, 3 fronts if need be. i realize your the kinda girl where one front just wont do. you need it from multiple ways) on another note to sideswipe the conversation i learned something about my family that represents a facet of american life that you only see on tv. in particular, jerry springer. i learned on of my family members was sexually molested by another family member as a teenager. im pretty fucking confused and torn, though not as much as the victim. needless to say my visit back east wed will be tainted with this new information at the same time i will have to maintain calm as not to knock the shit out of a certain relative. |
And this from the man who told me Afghanistan is more peaceful now. heh. |
where exactly is the falsehood in saying Afghanistan is more peaceful now than it has been in the last 5-10 years or more? |
I'm only slightly nuts today. I stand up for eri's right to be ignorant and speak her mind. After all, that is the American way. To prove it just watch Jerry Springer. Better yet watch the Tonight show when Leno has one of his street side quizes. And, they find no one who can answer the simplest questions. That proves all Americans have the God given right to be ignorant and still flap their gums. The effectiveness of our school systems is on display to the rest of the world. |
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I'm just standing up for our rights. Of course on the few occassions when my mouth has gotten ahead of my brain. I've usually been totally embarrased by the facts. |
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I think most of the problems of ignorant people, Most obviously not our eri, is that the schools today don't educate. Instead they indoctrinate. They push an agenda. By doing this they are doing a disservice to our (any) country. And, the government doesn't help much either. Mandatory testing means that when the schools actually teach something it is only so students can pass the tests. Worldnetdaily has a good article about the gay agenda in the Boston area schools today. I'd post it here but I have to leave now. |
I would like to see that link. I know that schools in Independence MO are holding gay is O.K. classes for Kindergarteners. It isn't that I agree or disagree, but the focus of the school at that age should be the basics and morality and such should be left to the parents. It is our job as parents to teach our children right from wrong and the schools job to teach reading, writing, arithmatic, etc. |
If you can't afford it most should offer scholarships. I once has a college instructor tell my math class "my job is not to teach you.". I felt like my money was being taken under false pretenses. I couldn't keep up with her machinegun delivery; so I dropped the class. |
Machine gun delivery. THat is pretty much what they are expecting out of the kids here. Sad, too. If Hayley were doing well in Math she would have been tested for the gifted program. Since she has issues with Math, they won't even begin to test her for it, and they won't give her the help she needs. Kansas City sucks. North Kansas City isn't much better. |
I might have relatives there. But, I wouldn't know she was adopted. I know she had other siblings because she was not an infant at the time. But, she never mentioned them. |
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I don't think they care too much about federal law here. If it isn't enforced regularly, then they don't care. They just care about the paycheck and whether or not they get head lice from the other kids (they put everything your child has in plastic bags from hats to backpacks to lunches to pencils and notebooks). I realize that I grew up in a vastly different area with a completely different approach to education, but I am not biased because it is different. I am dissapointed at how they don't really care about the children who struggle. How it is their business to teach "morals" and "values" and decide to take it upon themselves to get your child glasses when your doctor just told you she didn't need them, but on the same token they aren't willing to invest in teaching struggling children math and science. I was watching something on the education channel out here about schools that were putting children in "values" classes and teaching the kids right from wrong in the form of sexuality, gay/straight, tolerance, christianity, and things of the sort. A lot of parents were upset simply stating that these were the things that they were to teach their children and not the school. This was at an elementary to junior high level. I am not talking about sex ed here. I actually tend to agree with the parents. Why take quality time away from academics to teach an 8 year old about whether or not God exists? This is something to be handled by the parents. It is my job to teach right from wrong to my children. It is the schools job to teach reading writing math science social studies economics political science or whatever, but not their job to tell my children that they are in this class to learn about abstinance. The teachers were complaining about not being able to teach about birth control saying that they were inhibited in their teaching. To me a health class for an elementary school student should be about healthy eating and excersize and learning the science of how our different body systems work. Sex ed in elementary school should be telling girls about the fact that they are going to get periods and that there are pads and tampons available, not about sex and contraception. The gay/straight thing I don't believe is for the school to teach but the parents. Tolerance, to me is like political correctness and again should be the teaching of the parents. These kids need to learn critical thinking skills so that they can function on their own as adults and telling someone what to think about controvesial issues at such a young age does not teach them how to think for themselves but it instead indoctrinates them and creates yet another generation of monkeys. Academic problems are for schools. Societal problems are for families and parents. |
I haven't had a chance to read it. But, I would love to. Perhaps, eri, you aught to locate it and read it. It might have some usable ideas for you. |
Here is the one I heard about: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of Amreica - A Chronological Paper Trail" By Charlotte Thompson Iserbyt, Charlotte Iserbyt-Thomson What a mouthful. It's expensive, $40. But, I did here it is good. Very good. |
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I didnt bash anyone. Please. Thats crazy. All I said was, its kinda pointless to converse about a topic if you havent read the background. I then went on to say I find your comfort and ease with your ignorance on certain issues disarming and unsettling especially when it comes to how our government does business. NOW...back to the topic at hand. You may have heard some things regarding Enron and your pals Bush & Co. and a potential conflict of interest. Well, Ive always said (Clinton included) if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck and talks like a duck, it probably is a duck. Though it has yet to be fully investigated, im sure there is all kinds of illegal shit going on between Bush & Co. and his oil fuckos at Enron. Where's the special prosecutors now? They were lined up out the door at the hints of Clinton and Whitewater. Where are they now? *grumbles* Anyway...WHY we need disclosure Eri, why the government should be kept in check by disclosure is because of exactly what is unfolding now. Suspect "On Thursday, Enron's auditing firm, whose work is under investigation by federal regulators, disclosed that its employees had destroyed a significant number of documents - a congressional source said it was thousands of pages - related to the company." Suspect "Enron was one of Bush's biggest political contributors" Suspect "The bankruptcy has forced White House officials to face questions once posed to the scandal-tainted Clinton White House. Would Bush support naming a special prosecutor to investigate? Fleischer said no. He also said he did not know any White House aides who had hired lawyers. And there was a development reminiscent of Clinton's Whitewater: missing documents." Now....they may investigate this and find nothing there, which is eventually what happened with Whitewater....rather they found enough loopholes and legalschmegal to not justify further action and basically let the subject alone with nothing more than a slap on the wrist. But, you if there is something here, making presidential documents available to the public is essential to prevent corruption fraud etc. Do you see the importance of this Eri or do you still think that the things YOUR government does with YOUR tax dollars are "none of your business."? |
The documents missing during the Clinton administration were from the law firm that Hillery worked for. And, they were found in the White House. There has been no direct link, so far, between President Bush and the problem at Enron. And, the missing documents this time were destroyed by the outside Auditors. They're supposed to be totally independant from the company. This is where the real scandal will be. |
Kind of hard to find a link when the paperwork is destroyed. Also its worth noting that Senator Phil Gramm's (R-TX)wife Wendy Gramm, headed the Commodity Futures Trading Commission that regulated part of Enron's business. She later was named to Enron's board of directors. There are all kinds of suspect relationships going on here. Like i said, nothing has come out concrete but there are a lot of indicators point to all kinds of conflict of interests. Walks like, smells like, looks like....far too often, in cases like this with corporations and our government, it IS. but you know damn well, if it were Clinton, the Special Prosecutors would have already been named, the witch hunt would have been on. |
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Funny how the major news outlets forget that ENRON gave more to the Democrats than to the Republicans. They seem to have forgotten ENRON made any contributions to the Democrats at all. |
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Your facts are all fucked up. I have two very reputable sources that counter your information..... Enron Reportedly Gave to Politicians Associated Press, 1/14/02 "Since 1990, Enron and its employees contributed $5.77 million to political campaigns nationally, about three-fourths of it to GOP candidates. About half of the money was spent in the 2000 election, with President Bush a major beneficiary." Enron Spread Campaign Donations All Over Washington Reuters 1/11/02 "Since 1989, Enron has made a whopping $5.8 million in campaign donations, 73 percent to Republicans and 27 percent to Democrats, says the Center for Responsive Politics, an organization that tracks political giving." "Enron was Bush's biggest political patron as he headed into the 2000 presidential election. In all it has made $623,000 in contributions to his campaigns since 1993, when he was raising money for his first Texas gubernatorial race, according to the Center for Public Integrity, another follow-the-money group" "Texas Senators Kay Bailey Hutchison and Phil Gramm, both Republicans, top the list, having received $99,500 and $97,350 respectively in campaign contributions from Enron, the Center for Responsive Politics says." "But some Democrats got contributions from Enron too, including senior lawmakers and those on committees relevant to Enron's energy-trading business. For example, Sen. Charles Schumer of New York, a Democrat, received $21,933, the Center said. He is on the energy committee." "Senate Democratic leader Tom Daschle of South Dakota received $6,000 in Enron contributions. Sen. Joseph Lieberman (news), a Connecticut Democrat who chairs the governmental affairs committee that will probe Enron's collapse, got $2,000. In the House, the top beneficiary of Enron generosity, Democrat Ken Bentsen of Texas, has received $42,750 in contributions since he was elected in 1994." Do the math watcher. |
But, that just means the Democrats sold the same thing, access, at a cheaper price. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37287-2002Jan12.html And, evidently their votes too. At least thats what I got from this article. |
there were republicans cheating and getting blow jobs from interns and subordinates as well but hardly a Special Prosecutor to look into the matter. I just want equal and fair treatment in this matter. |
That's a joke. In todays world you have to watch what you say. Especially in humor. Somebody's bound to take it wrong. |
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outlets would never clue you into this little tidbit. To paraphrase Johnny Lydon, "Ever get the feeling you've bin cheated?" (you may just have to go to the BBC site, and stick thisin the search bar: Newsnight FBI Bin Laden 6/11/01) |
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January 12, 2002 Mr. T., Mr. G. and Mr. H. By BILL KELLER Whenever a truly dreadful person dies or retires and the chorus of polite, speak-no-ill-of-the-departed accolades begins, I think of the nasty bee-sting E. E. Cummings bestowed on the editor and poet Louis Untermeyer. Untermeyer's influential 1919 anthology, Modern American Poetry, omitted some of the great poetic innovators of the time, but included three poems by Untermeyer himself and one by his wife. Cummings gutted him in four lines. mr u will not be missed who as an anthologist sold the many on the few not excluding mr u The epigram was mean-spirited (later Untermeyer editions included the overlooked poets, and plenty of Cummings), but it was a memorable kick against the collective deference that accumulates around powerful people. In that dyspeptic spirit I'd like to begin the new year by bidding farewell to three men whose departure will raise the median decency of the United States Senate. In their remaining, lame-duck months, Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond and Phil Gramm will enjoy the ritual tributes of colleagues and the sanitized adieus of home-state editorialists. Let's be frank. They will leave behind an institution they have helped appreciably to debase. Senators Helms, Gramm and Thurmond have in common the fact that they harnessed their collective century of seniority to the Taliban wing of the American right. Point to an act of cultural division, bullying unilateralism or anti-government populism committed in the Senate during their decades there and you will usually find these three men among the sponsors. But there are others in the Senate who have voted for egregious causes, right and left, and still others who have never stood for much of anything. What sets these three apart is that each has made his own special contribution to the cynicism of our public life. It is tempting to excuse them, in their twilight, for at least having made the place more colorful. Mr. Helms affected a theatrically courtly demeanor, sirring and ma'aming witnesses he regarded as infidels. (His manners were selective; it was the courtly Mr. Helms who once remarked that if President Clinton visited North Carolina he'd "better have a bodyguard.") Mr. Gramm pokes witty fun at his own orneriness. "People say I don't have a heart," he once joked. "I do. I keep it in a quart jar on my desk." As David Plotz wrote in Slate, Senator Gramm is a mean, bitter pessimist, but "he has benefited from one of the strangest prejudices of politics: that meanness is a synonym for integrity." Mr. Thurmond benefits from another prejudice, our instinctive American admiration for those who correct themselves. He abandoned his ardent segregationist views when the demographics of his state made that expedient, and even hired actual black people to work on his Senate staff, a fact sometimes reported with such awe that you'd think he'd marched with Dr. King in Selma. I wish I could summon up tributes to these men, if only for the contrarian pleasure of defying the liberal tradition of these pages. But alas, it has to be said that each of them has impoverished our precious political culture. Mr. Thurmond's contribution is that he helped make Congress ridiculous. I can't think of a more cringe- making spectacle in public life than watching Mr. Thurmond, age 99, being shoveled into his seat at some committee he is only dimly aware of attending, and listening as he struggles to read a text prepared for him by an aide, losing his place at the end of each line. The Senate has never been a youth center, but Mr. Thurmond has deteriorated like Dorian Gray's picture while his constituents acquiesced and his colleagues averted their eyes. His embarrassing political shtick includes a self-conscious virility, manifested in his ability to produce children into his 70's and in his famously cute habit of leering at female interns, groping female senators and acclaiming the beauty of female witnesses before his various committees. Senator Thurmond did not invent the role of Washington lecher, but he helped cultivate the men's-club chauvinism in which Bob Packwood and Bill Clinton and Gary Condit operated. Please understand, Mr. Thurmond's sin is not that he grew old; it is that growing old was the sum of his career. The message of his nearly half-century in the Senate is that success is to be measured not by tangible accomplishments - Mr. Thurmond has none, unless you count getting post offices and schools named for himself, and wangling an appointment for his 29-year-old son and namesake as the top federal attorney for South Carolina - but by political longevity. What Mr. Thurmond represents is the transformation of senators into self-perpetuating instruments of incumbency. For years, "Senator Thurmond" has been a shell inhabited by party leaders, campaign donors and staff who operate behind his Oz-like seniority, the way Communist Party apparatchiks ruled in the name of the sickly Leonid Brezhnev. I don't believe in term limits, on the principle that voters are entitled to make their own mistakes, but Mr. Thurmond makes me less certain of my conviction. Mr. Gramm should be remembered for perfecting one of the more duplicitous roles in politics - the anti-government welfare queen. He has run his every campaign as a scourge of government spending and a champion of the beleaguered little taxpayer. At the same time he has built a great money sluice from Washington to his home state and pandered to the energy, banking and insurance lobbies that underwrite his political ambitions. His politics could be called hypocrisy, but only in a language that places a huge premium on understatement. Contrast Mr. Gramm with Representative Dick Armey, another Texan with a mean streak, a Ph.D. in economics and a professed distaste for government spending. Mr. Armey, who is also retiring after this Congress, had the intellectual integrity to fight federal farm subsidies and to engineer the closing of unneeded military bases, including one serving his home district. Not so Mr. Gramm, who once boasted, "I'm carrying so much pork, I'm beginning to get trichinosis." One of Senator Gramm's most generous benefactors was Enron, which lavished money on his campaigns and paid his wife handsomely as a corporate director. Senator Gramm, in turn, had a hand in legislation that exempted Enron's explosive energy derivatives business from government regulation and oversight. How big a hand, and whether that legislation enabled the secret funny business that led to the company's collapse, may emerge in one of the many investigations under way. Enron's business was built on the premise that just about anything could be turned into a commodity and bought and sold. The beleaguered little taxpayers who lost their jobs and pensions in the Enron fiasco will be interested to know whether that included their senator. Mr. Helms leaves behind at least a double legacy. He helped perfect fear-mongering as a form of fund- raising, using his own and allied political action committees to raise many millions by appealing to the crudest bigotries of voters. The technique is now pervasive across the political spectrum, but Mr. Helms helped pioneer those alarming boldface solicitations that warn: "Your tax dollars are being used to pay for grade school classes that teach our children that CANNIBALISM, WIFE-SWAPPING and the MURDER of infants and the elderly are acceptable behavior." (Yes, that's an actual letter that went out over his signature.) Mr. Helms has also diminished American stature abroad by using senatorial obstruction and intimidation to undermine our diplomatic service and pre-empt our foreign policy. As the senior Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee for the past 15 years, and as the mentor of a right-wing mafia within the Republican Party, he has been an author of much of what makes the world resentful of America: our stingy foreign aid, our lordly attitude toward any multilateral organization, our disdain for treaties, our support of despotic regimes from apartheid-era South Africa to the juntas of Latin America. Mr. Helms will not be missed; Unrelenting jingoist, He sold us bullies of their realms, Not excluding Mr. Helms. |
Now name some Democratic evil doers. |
al gore gray davis now name some evil rock guitarists. |
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The only way to change it is to vote. Thankfully most Americans don't do that any more. So one vote today means more. |
but it looks the alternative is going to former LA mayor Riordon, whom Im mixed about. |
You know, it's funny, I think that voting changes things, and then I realize that most of the other people who live in california must randomly punch whoever looks good, because we end up with such crappy governers. |
isnt that a tremendous fun factoid? i think California is probably one of the greatest states in the Union. Granted i haven't been to all 50, muchless 25, I think i've only visited about 14 or so states, but god damn if California doesnt have everything. |
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Don't forget to always carry your lifejacket with you. |
Well I've Been around the country And I've met a lot of kids Some kids are smart and some kids are dumb But I don't pass judgement they're just having fun Some kids get fucked up and others refrain But that's what makes the world so great No one should be the same The kids of the future you can see it in their eyes They must overcome nationality If the World is to survive And we'll sink with california When it falls into the sea Oi i'm not from England, Je Ne Suis pas de France Ich bin nicht von Deutschland and I can't dance Well I could saay California it means nothing to me. I despise nationality Shouldn't say that you're from north, south, east or west It's humanity that is the best Yo no soy Mexico, no sano de Italia That's all the languages we know And actually we're from Canada Yes we loe to travel, but we love to see That California border, forever and a day We'll sink with California When it falls into the sea From the mountains, to the prairies From the desert to the sea I'd say California, it means nothing to me I despise territorality I don't care if you're from north, south, east or west live for humanity, forget the rest. Yo I'm not from New York, I'm not from Boston Y'all I ain't from texas and I'm not patriotic Cause the only patriotism that we really need Is to sink with the world, with humanity and me |
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I keep thinking my relatives that live there will come to their sences and move. But, they love it. |
this is one of the reasons we have such a low opinion of the rest of the country. |
that and the "California is full of fruits and nuts" crap too. |
The kind of idiots we have here have nothing to do with it. |
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It will not "fall" into the sea. It will simply be an island floating off at a very slow [2cms a year] rate. Untill it erodes into nothingness. Unless,the plate directions change, this will eventually happen. Who knows when. We can't predict that. That it will happen, is a certainty. At present, they are working on techniques to decrease the tension, in the "slip stick mechanism", which would considerably decrease the amount of damage earthquakes do in the Calif area. If we can release small, frequent amounts of the tension, that would help considerably. As far as moving, why? If you like where you live, stay and enjoy your environment. There are environmental risks every where. Hurricanes on the southern and eastern coasts, tornado's in Kansas, etc. Fuck it. We're not here that long, we might as well enjoy where we live. |
This is a more accurate idea. I read not too long ago, that thousands of years ago, the the land between downtown LA and Pasadena is slowly being crunched. In otherwords, downtown is moving north/northeast. CA will not break off into the sea. i will more likely crawl up portlands ass. |
Look here,Patrick. This diagrams it for you. My reference to "continental crust west of the San Andreas fault,will indeed seperate from the main body of North America", can be visualized here. It is simple. We are referring to two seperate plates,moving in two seperate directions. That little chunk of Calif west of the San Andreas fault is on the Pacific Plate. The rest of North America is on the North american Plate. That little chunck of Calif west of the fault has to go where the rest of its plate takes it. It is part of that plate. The Pacific plate,[at present], is moving northwest, the North american Plate is moving southeast. In 16 million years, Los angles will be north of San francisco. The distinction here,is that it is 2 different plates. This is happening. You will not be alive to see the end results. That little chunk of Calif will eventually erode away to nothing,and just be covered by the sea. This will not effect you. You will be long gone. |
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its about as vast and remote as saying Florida will wash under |
Most of the Pacific plate is oceanic, meaning that it is a thinner,[albeit denser= higher in ferric content],and underwater,as opposed to the North american Plate,which is continental crust,[and thicker=higher in silicate]. That was tangential.Sorry. The point is,that little chunck of Calif IS on another plate and will be going with it. And,FYI........Florida has and will wash under again. The next time we have a good global warming[not in our lifetimes],glaciers will melt,[AGAIN], and all of the southern states will be underwater,[AGAIN]. Geology is BIG. It doesn't happen in our back yards,or in our lifespan. Geologic occurrences require millions of years to come full circle. So get your panties out of a wad. It is happening. Will it effect you? Probably not, unless you're unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place during a earthquake. Its been going on millions of years before us,and will most assuredly continue in our abscence. Now there. Isn't Buster a pretty bird? |
But, there are no real meaningful warnings for earthquakes, volcanic eruption, or tornadoes. |
if you ever visited the outter banks of NC, realizing the isolation and vulnerability...it doesnt take much to wash out a single bridge, leaving the entire island stranded. Also, talk to any given island in the Carribean about escaping hurricanes. No where to go. my cats are the best warning for earthquakes I have. |
Anybody who stays on the NC outter banks during a hurricane warning is a fool! As for the Islands of the Carribean, some of them are pretty well prepared to ride out a storm. Although some of the poorer ones probably could use some help. I'm glad you have your cats. How much of a warning do you get from them? Mine would sleep through anything. Unless it rang the doorbell. Then they would be under the bed. |
they say cats "know" and act funny prior to an earthquake. ive never nailed it down to an early warning science. |
I bet you will. It always comes down to the ASS. |
capisce? |
You can already trace the movement of the plates through terranes. For example, there's an outcropping of rock in Point Arena, about 50 miles south of me, that corresponds with rocks foud only in LA. It's a transform fault. The pacific plate is just kinda sliding slowly by the north american plate, givin' it sweet lovin'. The most likely outcome is that the pacific plate will subduct under the north american plate (since it's been known to do that in the past). Which means that LA will end up in a convection current of hot, ooey gooey magma. |
2 kinds of plates. Continental= thick,lightweight,high silica content Oceanic-thin and heavy, high iron content Both types of plates ride on the the plastic asthenosphere.Which has a viscosity similar to silly putty. The energy to keep the asthenosphere semi-molten[thus plastic], is the radio active heat from the core of the earth. So the plates just bob along at about 2 cms a year. 3 types of boundaries,which account for all geologic activity. 1. covergent 2 plates of continental crust come together,we have mountain building,like the Himilaya's,which are still growing. If continental crust converges with the thinner oceanic crust,the thinner crust is forced under the thicker crust,and eventually melts,and that matter has to go somewhere,so it pops up as volcano's[the Cascades are an example] 2. divergent this widens ocean basins,or if it happens on continental crust,it causes what are called rift valleys.[the atlantic ocean is actually becoming wider,and the Great African Rift Valley are examples] magma from the asthenosphere oozes up to fill the space the seperating plates leave. 3. transform plates move laterally all types cause earthquakes there is nothing magical or mysterious about it. We are just bobbing along. The paths of the plates are easily mapped out from ancient times. At one time,all of the land masses were joined. They called it Pangea.Then it started breaking apart,again.This will continue untill the radio activity dies out,and there is no energy source left,to heat the asthenosphere,to move the plates. Eventually,the remaining land masses will simply erode away,into a peneplain,and everything on earth will be covered by ocean. But long before this will happen,the sun will die out,so life as we know it will already be in a major bind. Sorry,geology is my thing.I love it. In school,they called me a "tectonic buckaroo". I earned that name. Also,of interest,[but I don't know much about this], is that they are studying dogs and cats{?},in relation to their ability to predict major geologic events. They think that somehow the animals can sense the change in the electro magnetic fields. I have also heard of some animals that can sense impending heart attacks and the such. |
i love geology, too. |
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The Cascades and the Himilayas are both convergent boundries,but they are different in type. The Himilayas aren't volcanic. They are formed by two,[actually three] continental crust boundaries colliding. This forms a fold type of mountains. Like the rockies. They are still activily growing. The Cascades are also from a convergent boundary,but in their case, it is the thin oceanic Pacific Plate being forced under the thick North American Plate. It is called a subduction zone. This is how volcano's are formed. The Cascades are still activilly growing/acting up,[St. Helens], as this subduction is still happening. I was very fortunate. I was studying geology in Oregon,when Mount St. Helens errupted. I lived about 150 miles away.We had ash everywhere. When things settled down,we got permission to go into the red zone,to collect samples.It was amazing,and kinda scary,too.I still have a little volcanic ash,hand blown little glass ring that I wore on a chain around my neck.It looked like a lifesaver,but it was from ash from St. Helens. But it broke. |
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at some point, one of the plates forming the himalayas will subduct. volcanoes will follow. the cascade volcanoes are characteristically non-basaltic. basalt typically flows from cracks in the ground eventually forming shield-type volcanoes like the hawaiian islands. the cascade volcanoes are puking up continental (extraterrestrial) material that has been subducted. someday, the same thing will occur in the himalayas. |
And,we heard it here,first! |
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dave your theory has much in common to that of scientologists. |
Nanny, nanny poo poo. |
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that freak tupperware lady is here today and me and my colleagues around me are thinking of ways to dodge this event. |
you have too many fetishes to count, patrick. |
I like that. |
I want to know what YOU think they are. spill!!! i probably won't tell her anything, as I' ll probably be across the street getting ice cream or something. i clam up when people like here are in the office. When i was introduced to Chasity Bono or Betty Degeneres before, i got really clammy and left to go smoke. I never want to seem like a celebrity letch. |
clothing photography drugs music ...... TELL HER! give her my email: agatha@fluffah.com |
Got a fever of 10,000 and three... |
and what human doesn't have a "fetish" for sex? christ you could say i have a "fetish" for mashed potatos and carne asada tacos. not picking you agatha, just curious of your perceptions. the word "fetish" should be buried like the word "def". you tell her I get uncomfortable with things like this. |
i know id kick his ass up and down if he did so. |
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in fact it was so on my mind, i dreamed you and dave and cloe visited and i told you this very thing. strangely enough, the dream also merged another part of my reality. dave, my buddy chris, and I were talking about film cameras and lenses. Dave was tripping on Chris's cameras. Last night, in reality, Chris introduced me to the most amazing cinematographer i've ever met. this guy, in his workshop, has old crank cameras including one of Able Gance's three cameras used to shoot Napoleon. Another camera he has, because of some jewish lineage, is Leni Reifenstahl's box camera, used to make nazi propaganda films. Lenses used to shoot Ben Hur and other epic shit like that. The real deal. anyway, i did have you in mind yesterday, realizing i was being a buthead. now back to swimming in the waters of my smelly ignorance. |
i know how you feel, because i'm brain-filter impaired myself. thanks for thinking about me. |
we had a few unsettling jolts last night. 4.2, 3.9 and 3.8 , back to back within 15 minutes or so. There has been about 12 aftershocks, but none breaking the 3.0 threshold. I was on the computer while simultaneously developing some film. My apartment shakes like a leaf. Though Im sure we are on a mostly rock hill we still feel so god damn vulnerable. These felt more side to side, than up and down. Side to side is more dramatic feeling, up and down is way more unsettling. Both pretty damn scary. My habit, when this happens at home is to yell for my wife and head for the door. Of all the quakes, I have only made it to the door, with her, once. Its over by the time we realize whats happening and react. We do have out little "emergency kit" by the door. Containing things like water, change of clothes, flipflops, soap, toothbrush, can of soup, some cash, a joint, and some whisky. Ironically, I was playing Duke Nuke Em's "LA Rumble" board in which Duke experiences quakes. Strange. |
sometimes im pretty confident i've run everyone off this board. though i dont mind talkin to myself. regarding those quakes, i found this fascinating "The flurry of more than 45 quakes began Monday night and extended into the next day. As of Tuesday evening, there had been 15,714 aftershocks of the 6.7-magnitude Northridge quake of Jan. 17, 1994, according to a compilation by Matt Gerstenberger of the U.S. Geological Survey. Of these, 11 have been magnitude 5.0 or greater, 57 have been 4.0 to 4.9, and 438 have been 3.0 to 3.9, Gerstenberger said." Aftershocks from a quake 8 years back. |
