| THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016). |
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in defense of democracy, the good ol' US of A recognized the government of some guy named pedro (installed as president, after a military coup.) recognized as the government of venezuela mere seconds after the democratically elected hugo was overthrown and thrown is prison. the white house welcomed venezuela's 'return to democracy' after a military coup ousted the democractically elected hugo chavez did i mention hugo chavez has won NINE popular votes since first elected in 1997? including the creation and ratification of a constitution? did i mention that said consitution put all oil in venezuela in the control of a state run oil company? 1954, guatamala ringing bells. can you say C I A? the agents of the coup spoke with the us ambassador before acting (acknowledged by the US government.) hugo is investigating a private jet with US markings that mysteriously appeared and disappeared before and after the coup. the US of A signed a treaty along with the rest of the american countries- a year ago- that said- in plain language- that no government attained by military means would be recognized by anyone who signed. |
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In the meantime I love this picture |
Interesting I could only find it in the NY Times. Still scouring though, to see if there is more then one source. |
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hugo and fidel are old buddies and venezuela supplies oil to cuba. it was briefly suspended after the coup. He's made a couple of day trips to Libya and Iraq, and was the first foreign leader since the Gulf War in 1991 to travel to Baghdad. he has a neutral stance on the FARC insurgency in Colombia. nothing for the cia to stage a coup over, in my opinion. but what do i know. i don't even know what ostensible reason they gave for the coup. we have definitely got to stop recognizing self-proclaimed governments. if only truman had listened to george marshall back in '48... but now hugo's back. what really interests me is argentina's invasion of europe. |
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it kinda shocked me when after 2 days i saw the headline Chavez returns. |
I'm increasing the price of oil, increasing the price of beef exports to McDonalds and increasing the number of illegals coming to work for you. |
I bet there are more illegals coming here. Apparently the economy is great for jobs that don't require a college degree. A family just moved here from Missouri, because they couldn't find work there. Know what they are doing here? Building maintenance for our crappy ass apartment complex. Aparently it paid enough to get them to move 900 miles away! |
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and my question to you, then, spunk, is if we are not actually interested in DEMOCRACY and JUSTICE, how does that spin the afghanistan massacre? i mean war. and eri, macdonalds uses 100% US grade A beef. |
Of course now Ari Fleischer is backpeddling saying they didnt view it as a "coup" but rather a culmination of bad policy. |
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Nate, see above mentioned post!!! ;) |
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im not really sure. i should ask my colleagues around me. you find me amusing don't you? |
"and my question to you, then, spunk, is if we are not actually interested in DEMOCRACY and JUSTICE, how does that spin the afghanistan massacre?" “We have found out . . . that we cannot trust some people who are nonconformists,” declared Ray Kroc, one of the founders of McDonald’s, angered by some of his franchisees. “We will make conformists out of them in a hurry . . . The organization cannot trust the individual; the individual must trust the organization.” Hmmm, looks like Ray KROCK (perfect last name) summed it all up. |
I am not really interested in how to define the "afganistan masacre" until we finish up with defining the "WTC Masacre"..... I dont really give a flying fuck what spin you wanna put on it. look at them now, after the pashtun and the northern aliance beat the taliban. what happens? oh my god, they are still killing each other!!! they are still saying death to Americans!!! Same goes for most of the people in pakistan and india and palestine and isreal and iraq and iran. No body likes us, and that is fine. We are not or should not be in the "like me" business. we should be worried about our stakes and our interests in the first place, other nations stakes and interests secondly. Cold hearted? yes. Realistic? You bet your ass. No one, but no one is the better for wiping someone else's ass before their own. |
RUN FOREST RUN! Don't tempt me to release the one legged space chickens!!!! |
"we should be worried about our stakes and our interests in the first place, other nations stakes and interests secondly" this attitude is what causes hate to fester. Unfortunately, whether you like it or not, we are the worlds largest consumer, economic superpower, military superpower. What we do (or DON'T do) has the potential to shake the world. |
This is exactly why we can't let corporations take over government. And, spunkster, being realistic doesn't mean you've got to be cold hearted. |
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I finally figured out where Patrick gets his theories. Go here. http://www.cjnetworks.com/~cubsfan/conspiracy.html |
" That was my point. Listen, and listen well. We have been spending the last 2 decades appoligizing for our success and worrying about all these countries and all of their problems. We attempted to help. That festered hate. We stood back and that festered hate. What did it get us? 2 planes smashing into the WTC, killing thousands of INNOCENTS. Because, supposedly, we helped some and not others. If it had been reversed, then someone else would have done it. I am not saying issolation, that would be economic suicide. But dammit, the only one that is going to watch out for the US is the US. And, if that includes meddling in other countrie's leaderships, then so be it. The only one we owe any appoligies to is the Palastines, for selling arms to Isreal. |
israel is the only democracy in the region. we've supplied weapons for their defense. or why ONLY the palestinians? turkey is the largest purchaser of US arms in the world. every heard of the kurds? do you have any idea how they are treated in turkey? you can get hung for speaking the wrong language. is that happy? the fact that we are assholes to the world is what 'festers hate'. open your eyes, spunkmaster. |
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Doesn't mean we all have to be Repulsican, nor Dumbocrat. |
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goddamn it |
Isla de Margarita, 40km (25mi) from the mainland, is a favorite for beach-lovers and a popular holiday destination for Venezuelans... and there are better examples of 17th C. cathedrals you think? I can sit there marvelling at the Cathedral looking up to God and Her Architects, while some US emigrant picks my pockets and drives off in a 68 Edsel. I think it was the abundance of old old US cars that struck me odd. My travelling buds spent some time in Caracas, and I declined the invitation to accompany, and sat on the crime free beaches of that happy little island of Aruba... Caracas is not a very safe town. Although, the entire country is not very safe, unless compared to Columbia...where one best be packing a side arm to go to la tienda o los locos cantinas. Carpe foreigner! |
I think we both point out the truth. Surprising? No. The international fabric is just as confusing and convoluted as ever, and there really is no innocents left (except the pigmies maybe, but I am sure they are oppressing someone). There is no right side and no wrong side today. The Israelis have the right to defend themselves, and the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves. Both should be treated as sovereign nations. |
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there are only wrong sides. everything is wrong. life will be so much easier when you accept this. |
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What, you have to be right to live? I find that life can be pretty interesting when you're wrong. Being right is boring as hell. |
Black is white, up is down and short is long And everything you thought was just so important doesn't matter Everything you know is wrong Just forget the words and sing along All you need to understand is Everything you know is wrong |
But sometimes? A few times? Having the possibility of being right? Always being wrong = boring. |
sometimes, not always. being right can make you inflexible, close-minded, an elitist snob, a terrorist, etc. sometimes, not always. and i never understood "why live?" or "a reason to live." we need to get in touch with our inner wrongness. |
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Maybe. |
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That pic you linked to (at the top of this) damn near killed me. I'm still giggling. The earth is the tear!!! it just keep getting better! That's the tripest tripe that ever triped! Awesome. You made my day. i want a poster. |
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In order to understand knee-jerk libertarianism you need to realize that everything is controlled by twat-fiddlers made up of subgenii with help from the rotarians. The conspiracy first started during the sinking of the Bismarck in Dobbstown. They have been responsible for many events throughout history, including Patrick discovering marijuana. Today, members of the conspiracy are everywhere. They can be identified by pope- fondling. They want to smite the Righteous Brothers and imprison resisters in Jerry Bruckheimer's house using camels. In order to prepare for this, we all must skydive. Since the media is controlled by Antigone we should get our information from Spunky. hmmm.... |
harharhar |
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- mark thomas |
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i have an old dear friend who lives and works in Milan. Hoping she's ok. otherwise, fuck the news. hockey playoffs are on. |
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there are eye witness reports in Milan saying the plane was on fire first and there were distress calls from the pilot. |
LS |
How fucking selfish |
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I sure do not think I would do that. |
Killing others in order to commit suicide has nothing to do with being American. It more resembles the Kamikaze pilot, without the religious or political convictions. |
eri, i've flown, granted with a pilot on hand. You have no idea what it takes to "handle" an unidentified problem. They say it was his landing gear but people are saying it was on fire before it hit the building. who knows at this point. If you ever felt 2-3 g-force of a plane in a 60 or 90 degree bank (i have) you can begin to understand how difficult it is to deal with mechanical problems while possible going out of control. |
"The Italian air traffic controller's association said the pilot did not issue a distress signal, as previously reported." "The tower tried to put him into a holding pattern to the west of the tarmac, but the pilot turned north instead, the authority said." It is an awesome looking skyscraper, by the way |
according to the same article: "The National Aviation Authority said Fasulo radioed the control tower at Milan's Linate Airport to report "a small problem" with his landing gear as he was approaching the airport tarmac to land" "When the tower contacted the pilot again to inform him he was making "improper manoeuvres," he told officials he was trying to fix the problem with the landing gear so he could land, and that was the last time the tower was able to reach him." "Milan fire brigade officials have said the plane was on fire as it flew into the 32-storey building. " your choosing what to pay attention to in order to support your opinion. There's clear indication in that article, two seperate Italian authorities saying that A) the plane was on fire and B) he communicated with the tower on two occassions regarding the trouble |
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I dunno, truth is I doubt anyone will ever know what really happened. maybe there was no problem with his landing gear, he was actually beating off and crashed into the building (no where near flight plan or landing strip, why would a problem with the gear cause him to completely change his course verses go into a "holding pattern?). |
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I dunno, truth is I doubt anyone will ever know what really happened. maybe there was no problem with his landing gear, he was actually beating off and crashed into the building (no where near flight plan or landing strip, why would a problem with the gear cause him to completely change his course verses go into a "holding pattern?). The man was an experienced piolot. I am sure, at some point and time, there was some sort of training involving landing a plane with faulty landing gear. I doubt he was stupid enought to be so engrossed in the problem that he did not pay attention to where the plane was flying. And who is to say he did not set the plane on fire himself, before crashing into the building? He did not contact the tower for 2 minutes prior to hitting the building |
the landing gear is electrical, its entirely possible an electrical problem started a fire. Even the best of pilots go down. Cat, when done shagging her self silly in Hong Kong, can back me up on this. You have no idea what happened, whether he was engrossed in the problem or not. Say his gear locked up, electrical system caught fire, he lost hydraulics, couldnt steer, couldnt do anything. It IS Milan's tallest building for crissakes man. He may have had no control what so ever. Its probably not as simple as his gear being stuck. Everything we know thus far says nothing about committing suicide. Being in debt is not substantial enough. |
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Seriously. You are hard to talk to about anything. Once you have made up your mind, you get damn adamit about it. Almost take the fun out of debate |
and yes i know everything. god dammit havent you learned that by now. |
it was total terrorism, all the way. al Qaida promised him eternal debt free salvation if he did this. |
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assuming he did, don't most policies become void if he commits suicide? it stands to reason that his son would inherit at least some of that policy, unless he hated his son and left him out of it. in which case his son would lie about it so no one else could benefit from it |
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Has anyone told Mario????? Mama Mia!!! |
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Patrick, why are you assuming that I don't know anything about flying a plane or what is expected of a pilot during any part of the flying process? Why are you assuming I have never flown? For someone who thinks they know it all you do way too much assuming. |
this "The thing that gets me is that with 30 years experience, he should have been able to handle this problem" says enough. You really don't the details of the problem. All im working off of is that A) he said he had gear trouble B) he was on fire. Im not making a leap by speculating (based on those two reported facts) that he might have an electrical problem, not getting the gear down subsequently loosing hydraulics, thereby loosing entire control of the plane thereyby slamming into the tallest building in the vicinity. Im trying to use deductive reasonsing. You aren't. I don't really know if you have flown or not. I've flown one of these with the assistance of an Air Force Trainer and one of these with another Air Force trainer and my step-grandpa on several occassions. |
anyone who isn't a pilot with 30 years experience wouldn't know. that means- none of you. now play nice. i hate to see my loved ones fight. |
i'm with antigone. the guy was obviously shot down. |
