| THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016). |
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************ One argument says...that the smart kids are unpopular because the other kids envy them for being smart, and nothing they could do could make them popular. I wish. If the other kids in junior high school envied me, they did a great job of concealing it. And in any case, if being smart were really an enviable quality, the girls would have broken ranks. The guys that guys envy, girls like. ************* Now, see, I think there's something to be said about this envy. A wise man I admire once said that he saw us as living in a "culture of envy," which demands that everyone be mediocre because the loud voices in this culture don't like it when people are too [successful, attractive, good, etc.]. He wasn't talking about the media/celebraties -- he was talking about the way many of us live our daily lives, and I think he was on to something. I think also that there is something different about intelligence, compared with other traits that people are judged on. You choose which clothes to wear and with whom to hang out and which car to drive. You can't do a thing about how intelligent you are -- you can only feed your brain or let it rot. So it would seem that this would be a trait that is easily enviable, because it's just an accident of birth, really, that the average people aren't as smart as the smart people. See how easy it would be to resent someone for that, much like some people resent those who are born into wealthy families? They didn't do anything to deserve that blessing. As opposed to someone who worked really hard to get where they were -- the implication being that you, too, could work that hard and achieve as much, so in essence the playing field is level. Not so when it comes to intelligence. Then there's this passage: ***************************** Teenage kids used to have much more of a role in society. In preindustrial times, teenagers were all apprentices of one sort or another, whether in shops or on farms or even on warships. They weren't left to create their own societies. They were junior members of adult societies. Teenagers seem to have respected adults more in the past, because the adults were the visible experts in the skills they were trying to learn. Now most kids have little idea what their parents do in their distant offices, and see no connection (indeed, there is precious little) between schoolwork and the work they'll do as adults. And if teenagers respected adults more, adults also had more use for teenagers. After a couple years' training, an apprentice could be a real help. Even the newest apprentice could be made to carry messages or sweep the workshop. Now adults have no immediate use for teenagers. They would be in the way in an office. So they drop them off at school on their way to work, much as they might drop the dog off at a kennel if they were going away for the weekend. ***************************** I think this nails everything with one blow (though I would like to see some sources for his claim.) Anyway, what to do about this? |
I went to an elementary school, a middle school for grades 6&7, and a high school in which it was very uncool to be smart. You were cool if you dressed a certain way (except in high school, where we wore uniforms), lived in a certain area of town, were good at sports, were pretty, and hung out with the right people. But the school I went to for 8th grade was different. It seemed to me that there was no hierarchy, only groups that were separate but equal. There were bad kids who had been in JD and were in level 3 classes that were popular. There were rich kids in level 1s and dated a lot that were popular. There were kids who were of average intelligence and socio-economic status who were really nice or very artistic, and they were popular. By popular, I mean well-liked and well-respected. I think what made this school unique was that each group was sizeable. Bad / rich / miscellaneous all had around the same number of members. Of course, there were people that no one liked, but that was because they were assholes, not because they didn't wear the right clothes or whatever. In high school, you were popular if you were good at sports -- that was basically the most important criterion. And I just thought of something....that criterion makes sense. If you're good at sports, you help your team, and you help the school advance in the championships. But if you're smart...well, you just help yourself. Hmmmm... |
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I wish I could say more but I've got to finish a paper that is due at six. |
ergo, democracy is stupid. sincerely, dorian |
God I wish I had more time for conversations |
sorry about dragging in politics. xoxo, colin powell |
Whatever. I thought it was an interesting meditation on intelligence and social status. |
he truly just doesnt give a shit. he's really bright, funny and witty. he has a dry humor like you wouldnt believe for a 14 year old, but it looks like he just might fail 8th grade again. she is exhausted and out of ideas. "how do you inspire someone to care? how do you instill forsight for him to see that the path he is on is not a rewarding one and will be a brick tied around his ankle?" I too was a bit lost as to how to advise her. Its really a shame. His dad is a career slack fuck. Deadbeat dad 110% and the fact that my nephew witness their divorce in the last 2 years, seen his dad go in and out of jail for contempt of court and not paying child support and so on......its no wonder. |
Another possibility is that he could be depressed. Sounds like he's had a lot of pain,... |
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I also agree that depression is probably one of the root causes of his current situ. but dont leave out the possibility of feelings of guilt, its been shown many times that guilt feelings arise from children of divorce. A certain apathy arises in children (i speak from experiance, not statistics/ or studies) who lose their foundation right at the age when hormones go haywire. nothing seems to matter, and there is large feelings of doubt(in the stability of their world), and lack of self worth. I would caution your sister to be on watch for signs of suicidal tendancies. The only thing that helped me was the fact that my parents, (and some other adults in my life) never gave up on me... pushing (not to hard) for education, prodding for information (abt. me and my feelings) and just being there, non-judgmental and supportive. |
that seems so remote. he has all kinds of interest. he just doenst give a shit about school. she's seen no signs of depression, nothing obvious anyway. it just simply boils down to school. |
Please don't grade my posts. I'll get a complex. Thank you. |
school sux balls he doesn't wanna go who cares |
14 years olds dont always have the forsight to see the ramifications of their actions now. |
he doesnt show sign for ADD. he is of average intelligence. he doesnt do drugs and my sister is pretty sure of this. in fact his buddies are actually all pretty smart. im talking with her about it. shes run out of ideas. i suggest that she say ok, fine. dont want to do your school work? fine dont. you dont go either. but then you must get a job. school or job. no loafing. maybe he could start cuttign grass for 9 hours a day for $6/hour. Or she could assign him 8 hours worth of house work. Perhaps he has a case of "the grass is greener on the other side". I dunno. Im trying to at least keep her in the game. Its a puzzle, its just a matter of figuring it out. |
the smart people at my school who were nice were also very popular if they wanted to be. smart kids who were complete assholes [and many were/are] or had serious hygiene issues or the inability to look anyone in the eye; they were not popular, and it's easy to see why. |
The "smart" kids spent time avoiding the party situations, the drugs, date raping, the blatantly out of control behavior. I am not talking about normal teen drinking or experimentation. The popular kids weren't satisfied with that. They had to be significantly worse. The smart kids spent time studying and participating in activities to help with college acceptance, did things like participating in things for animal rights, or helping the poor, things that they felt would help society, took on jobs to help pay for their future college education. They did have normal teenage fun, but didn't want to be a part of the party insanity that went with being popular. We also had the "geek" group, band members and computer nerds, the "punk" group, though I am sure it is called something different now, and one other group that was kinda like the beautiful people who weren't into the popular scene. They worked hard on schoolwork but still took time to date, have a job, whatever. Fun but not necessarily wild group. I guess that is what they were. They also were friends with most of the other groups to some level. Definite separation between the "brains" and the "popular" kids, but based on their different views of right and wrong and their choices. The separations of the cliques usually had to do with the different personalities and financial situations. The cocaine snorting rich bitch driving the mercedes was popular, and the beer drinking, pot smoking girl driving the honda was not. The girl who didn't drink or smoke pot and didn't have a car and had a curfew was a geek or a brain. One or the other. So in my high school experience it was a difference in financial level and choices, but there was a definite distinction between all of the different cliques. |
We have an adult learning centre school here called Hagley. Its classrooms for people of all ages, including first year high school students. They learn with adults, and they learn stuff they _want_ to know. A lot of kids who don't do well in mainstream schools love going there. I would of thought you had alternative learning centres? |
but the expense. a single mom (who'e ex husband is too stupid to understand that if he doesnt make child support payments he goes to jail) would be hard pressed to afford such specialty schools. |
Anyway i never did say anything because i found highschool to be the most wasted and useless 4 years of my education. I thought so then, and i still think so now. To say i didn't care would be an understatement. I found out exactly what i needed to get into the colleges/universities i wanted to go to, worked on that and fucked the rest. I barely showed up for grade 9. I got 50's. Because i couldn't be paid to care about phys-ed or math, or waste my energy on subjects i was only fourced to take. It's pissing me off just thinking about it. Then in grade 11 and 12 i started getting 90's in everything. Everyone thought i had suddenly "clicked" and was ready to learn and try and grow into a sucessful student that they all knew i could be! What they didn't put 2+2 together about was that the colleges only recieve highschool transcripts from grades 11 and 12. hah goddamn, highschool is bullshit. uhm, anyway, i gues i don't have a point really, or any advice for patrick. I've just found that unless kids have some idea of what they want to do in college or after, they won't care about highschool. Because they have no reason too. My advice to them is to cheat like hell, slack, make friends, read a lot of books and get it over with as soon and as fast as they can. |
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