Apparently, the Right wing thinks torture ain't no big thang... You see, there's just this slight difference between frat hazing or a stage show - it's called consent. Something maybe these guys aren't really up with. Disgusting. just disgusting.

I don't know Sem,it depends on how you define torture.I was looking at the movie reviews today and when I read about the Olsen Twins new movie New York Minute,I thought to myself "if I had to watch that movie it would be a form of torture".Then I think about my family and thats pure torture,in fact my hotmail signature is,the torture never stops.Now you want to talk torture?Marathon Man the interoggation scene,I can hardly handle going to a dentist cause of that.

Rush Limbaugh actually said it looked like "Fun" and they were just blowing off steam, "no different than a Skull and Bones initiation". Donald Rumsfeld wont even address the possibility that it was torture, wont even addresss the word. Bremer is reported now to have known about this in January. heads must roll.

a lot of people are saying "you're just fueling our enemies by showing this" and to that i say. sort of, but it wouldnt be if they werent TORTURING PRISONERS IN THE FIRST PLACE. and if the US hadnt shown the photos, the Arab networks would have, and thats the real issue, how THEY react to it. A lot of people arent look at it for what it is: a big problem in 'winning the hearts and minds' and are only making up excuses defending it because it hurts Bush and his cronies.

I also note how the right wing media conveniently ignores the military's own estimate that 60% of detainees are innocent.

of course they dont! they dont even believe anyone on death row is innocent! if they did they wouldnt support the death penalty... they think most people in jail 'did it'... so why then would they ever believe that someone held in Iraq or accused of being a terrorist could even POSSIBLY be innocent.

valium please!

imagine, for a moment, if they got the same pics, but with americans as the prisoners and some arab guys giving the thumbs up behind them. Go ahead, picture the backlash. I dare you. Rush Limbaugh would be blubbering and weeping like a little girl, and Iraq would be blown to a parking lot by weeks end.

and as for that fucking cunt in the background, with the big smile and the thumbs up, i honestly wish for her death. I want her skinned alive and fed to angry dogs. That is the sickest thing i've ever seen. True evil. You heard me. I want Saddam and Osama to have fair and just trials. But i want her to suffer, we can start by making her eat that fucking thumb.

The US guard,(Pte Lynndie England)can now feel proud of her self for extending the attacks upon Westerners by Bin Ladin for a few more years.

I'm not sure anymore how much blame is really on the troops... is it that simple? could it be the training? I mean, they're supposed to be a killing machine, forget your identity/part of a collective, always take orders... I know its easy to say 'they were just taking orders' (some petulent hippie at my liberal douche pot party next to me is sayin "heyyyyyyy man, the NAZIS took orders too, maaannnnnn") but thats probably what its going to come to

NewsMax, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc... really showing their true colors Iraq Prison 'Torture' Allegations Overblown Did U.S. soldiers in Baghdad "torture" Iraqi prisoners housed at Saddam Hussein's old Abu Ghraib prison? That's the impression being given by the blanket coverage of photos showing Iraqi detainees being humiliated at hands of their American keepers - half of whom, by the way, were female. That's right. Along with three male GIs suspected in the prison "torture" episode, three females, Spec. Megan Ambuhl, Spec. Sabrina Harman and Private Lynndie England have been named in the scandal. England is the GI shown in several of the photos circulated throughout the world, cigarette dangling from her lips as she smirks at a masturbating Iraq prisoner. Female torturers? That tidbit should send up a red flag immediately. When Saddam routinely tortured Iraqi innocents held at Abu Ghraib for decades, press accounts make no mention of women feeding detainees into meat grinders, or dipping prisoners in acid, or dismembering victims to be sent home to family members in Hefty bags. Soldiers or not, women are generally not the best candidates to administer physical "torture" of any kind. In fact, what the photos show is not "torture" - or Iraqi prisoners being subjected to "atrocities," another term being tossed out to hype this story. Instead, these GI's were likely doing what they were told to do - soften up their prisoners for interrogation that next day by using humiliation and intimidation. Much the same way Iraq war hero Corporal Alan West fired his weapon in the presence of an Iraqi captive earlier in the war to get him to come clean about an impending attack against West's unit. For all the hysterical headlines, this allegedly shocking episode sounds more like a college fraternity hazing: "The photographs tell it all," writes the New Yorker's Seymour Hersh. "In one, Private England, a cigarette dangling from her mouth, is giving a jaunty thumbs-up sign and pointing at the genitals of a young Iraqi, who is naked except for a sandbag over his head, as he masturbates. "Three other hooded and naked Iraqi prisoners are shown, hands reflexively crossed over their genitals. A fifth prisoner has his hands at his sides. In another, England stands arm in arm with Specialist Graner; both are grinning and giving the thumbs-up behind a cluster of perhaps seven naked Iraqis, knees bent, piled clumsily on top of each other in a pyramid. "There is another photograph of a cluster of naked prisoners, again piled in a pyramid. Near them stands Graner, smiling, his arms crossed; a woman soldier stands in front of him, bending over, and she, too, is smiling. "Then, there is another cluster of hooded bodies, with a female soldier standing in front, taking photographs. Yet another photograph shows a kneeling, naked, unhooded male prisoner, head momentarily turned away from the camera, posed to make it appear that he is performing oral sex on another male prisoner, who is naked and hooded." Embarrassing? Yes. But hardly the Bataan Death March. Hersh also alleges that phosphoric liquid from chemical lights was poured on detainees; along with cold water. Others were subjected to "threats" of rape. Military dogs were used to "frighten and intimidate" prisoners, including one case in which a detainee was actually bitten. Pretty weak stuff by the standards of Saddam, however, who used to have his Doberman Pincers devour dissidents alive as his Cabinet looked on. Hersh does note the alleged sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick. But in a report ripe with quotes from a preliminary military investigation into the prisoner abuse scandal, he includes no direct quotes about this, the most egregious of all abuse allegations. It's also worth noting that Hersh's reporting earlier in the war on terror turned out to be highly questionable. The bottom line: While reporters pretend to be shocked that the U.S. isn't housing Iraqi POW's at the Baghdad Waldorf Astoria, complete with full room service, an in-room Jacuzzi and daily massage privileges, that kind of treatment isn't likely to yield much by way of actionable intelligence. And that, after all, was the point of all the harsh treatment. The Bush administration needs to announce that while this entire episode may be regrettable, there was no "torture," "atrocities" weren't committed - and suggestions to the contrary by American reporters give aid and comfort to the enemy. Meanwhile, if the Muslim world considers it "torture" to have female GIs looking at their undressed prisoners, they ought to consider how upset Americans get when the folks we sent over to rebuild one of their countries are shot, burned, have their corpses dragged through the streets and used for bridge ornaments.

Chronology of Abu Ghraib investigation Published May 8, 2004 CHRONOLOGY A timeline of the military's investigations into conditions at Abu Ghraib prison and elsewhere: • Aug. 31-Sept. 9, 2003: Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, who runs the military prison for terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, conducts an inquiry on interrogation and detention procedures in Iraq. He suggests that prison guards can help set conditions for the interrogation of prisoners. • October-December 2003: Many of the alleged abuses at Abu Ghraib take place during this period. • Oct. 13-Nov. 6, 2003:Maj. Gen. Donald Ryder, provost marshal of the Army, investigates conditions of U.S.-run prisons in Iraq, including Abu Ghraib. He finds problems throughout the prisons. Some units, including the 800th Military Police Brigade, did not receive adequate training to guard prisons, he notes. He also says military police (MPs) should not assist in making prisoners more pliable to interrogation, as their job is to keep prisoners safe. • Jan. 13, 2004: Army Spec. Joseph Darby, an MP with the 800th at Abu Ghraib, first reports cases of abuse at the prison. • Jan. 16: Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez orders a criminal investigation into reports of abuse at the prison by members of the brigade. The military also announces the investigation publicly. • Jan. 18: A guard leader and a company commander at the prison are suspended from their duties, and Sanchez admonishes Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, who commanded the brigade. • Jan. 19: Sanchez orders a separate administrative investigation into the 800th. Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba was appointed to conduct that inquiry on Jan. 31. • Late January-early February: President Bush becomes aware of the charges sometime in this period, according to White House spokesman Scott McClellan, although the spokesman has not pinpointed a date. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told Bush of the charges, McClellan has said. • Feb. 2: Taguba visits Abu Ghraib. Throughout the month, his team conducts interviews in Iraq and Kuwait. • March 12: Taguba presents his report to his commanders. He finds widespread abuse of prisoners by military police and military intelligence people. He also agrees with Ryder that guards should not play any role in the interrogation of prisoners. • March 20: Six soldiers face charges stemming from alleged abuse at the prison. The military announces the beginning of possible court-martial proceedings. • Mid-April: Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, asks CBS-TV to delay airing photographs it has obtained of abuse at Abu Ghraib. Myers says the photos would exacerbate an intense period of violence underway in Iraq. CBS delays its program for two weeks. • April 6: Third Army commander Lt. Gen. David McKiernan approves Taguba's report. • April 28: CBS airs the photos, setting off an international outcry. Bush first learned about these photos from the television report, his aides say. • April 30: The military announces that Miller has been put in charge of U.S.-run prisons in Iraq. • May 1: Sanchez approves Taguba's report. Six more soldiers receive reprimands; two are relieved of their duties. A seventh receives a lesser reprimand. Other investigations are also underway, including into the military intelligence unit that conducted interrogations at the prison. • May 3: Bush urges Rumsfeld to make sure that any guilty U.S. soldiers are punished for "shameful and appalling acts." Rumsfeld's aides say he has not yet read the Taguba report, although they say he has kept abreast of the allegations of mistreatment. • May 6: Bush apologizes to the Arab world for abuse, says Rumsfeld will stay in his Cabinet. • May 7: Senate and House committees call Rumsfeld to testify. He apologizes for abuses. A seventh soldier from an Army Reserve military police is charged in thescandal. (Archived) Associated Press

it's not torture, it's freedom tickling.

"Female torturers? That tidbit should send up a red flag immediately....Soldiers or not, women are generally not the best candidates to administer physical "torture" of any kind." oh, it's come down to this now. Fabulous.

see, there are these things called GUNS, they pretty much even out the ladies from the menfolk and.... awww fuckit. It's too stupid to even begin to address.

heh, maybe since guy who wrote that is stereotypical neocon he dominates women and couldnt possibly assume they'd torture someone... because women never torture men in any way shape or form... ever... right?

I made a boyfriend put a tissue on top of his cock and make it dance like a ghost. My bad.

Hi Cat

Cat,did you ever move?Do you love me more than I love you?

typical republican/conservative bullshit. when the the heat comes on...distract. always back to what saddam did right? the war going awry? GAY MARRIAGE. Some fags you'll never know in some city on the west coast that you'll never visit are getting married. Never mind the attrocities. where's my narcotic lip balm.

it's ironic that saddam is probably being treated much better than these prisoners.

who knows. what happened to him, and all those other senior level Iraqi officials. Tariq Aziz? That madman with the bitchin rhetoric? Whats happening to these people while we're looking into the incarceration matters.

The thing is, this sort of stuff happens because those guards WEREN'T trained. Folks from those reserve units said they were not given the proper training to handle a prison situation before deployment. It's pretty obvious when you think about it. Officers, not knowing what they need to do, so the MPs aren't supervised, and with no supervision and absolute power in that situation, you get the Stanford Prison Experiment. It's what's called the "banality of evil" and it's how ordinary people can turn into monsters.

"The Bush administration needs to announce that while this entire episode may be regrettable, there was no "torture," "atrocities" weren't committed - and suggestions to the contrary by American reporters give aid and comfort to the enemy." Holy shit. This blows my mind. This BLOWS my MIND. The banality of evil is right -- as we can see, you don't even have to be a sadist or torturer to be evil. You can just think that's okay. As Pogo said, we have met the enemy, and he is us.

Article 147 of the Fourth Geneva Convention defines war crimes as: "Willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment ... Unlawful confinement of a protected person ... willfully depriving protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=4&u=/nm/20040515/ts_nm/iraq_abuse_pentagon_dc_5 New Yorker: Rummy OK'd interrogation plan

Hi, I'm wondering if there are any single women out there in California and or the World who is willing to call me so that we can get to know each other better? 415 756-6754 or e-mail me at JohnHarris014@aol.com Hope to hear from you soon. Sincerely, John

oh yes, this is JUST the thread to look for da ladies. John Harris, you are fucking smooth. smooooooooth

He probably found the thread by googling "female torturers"

And now, a few words from Michael Savage on the matter: "I don't mean to be too comedic in the political arena, but these so called abuse photos frankly are mild by comparisons to what goes on in South of Market clubs in San Francisco. " "And eventually you're gonna find that we need more of the humiliation tactics, not less. ... I don't know what its gonna take for you to finally welcome what the troops are doing, what the interrogators were doing until you finally recognize the enemy, the true face of the enemy and what its gonna take to break this death grip that they seem to have on the minds of the Democrats. ... These people don't fear death, they fear humiliation. The only way to humiliate them is take their deepest fear, the pig, the dog, the woman with the leash, and use it on them to break them! " Savage on the consequences of prohibiting "these interrogation tactics": "What's gonna happen is terrible. What's gonna happen now is even worse that you can imagine. Because these interrogation tactics which were working, by everything I can read, are no longer permissible, you are gonna have an event in this country before the election, and you can thank your friends Levin and Kennedy for that, you can thank all the phonies on the Democrat side for that. " These people live only for their honor, and so the only thing you can withhold from them is their honor. There is the answer as to why you see these graphic pictures. These are not a few individuals who made this up. That's crap. That's crap in my opinion. This came from the top. And how high up it goes I don't know but frankly I commend them for it. It's wise intelligence techniques, to break the enemy where he's vulnerable, not try to get him where he's strong. ... That's why the women were used! It's a very intelligent method to break the enemy without resorting to thumb-screws and the much more severe methods of torture. ... "I think it's a very good policy, and the more I learn about it I think that it made good sense. Short of real torture, this worked. Use little women in particular. Little, ugly women. And let 'em take big strapping Iraqis and put 'em on leashes naked. ... Get police dogs to bark at naked Iraqis, until they crack and tell you which Ahmed or... [unintelligible mocking of Arab names] " Savage on who's to blame for Nick Berg's death: "Nick Berg, an American, not military, over there building transmission towers, was captured by the Untermenschen the sub-humans, who wrap themselves in a religion. He is seen saying his mother's name, his father's name, sister's name, his brother's name and then the smiling Arabs cut a living human beings head off as he screams. It's a blood-curdling scream that you'll ever hear again. You'll never get it out of your mind if you're a normal person, or you're not given to murder or you've never been around murder. Uh, it's something you'll never forget, not should you ever forget it and you can thank the Democrats, you can thank the Senate Arms Services Committee for their hysterical hearings. You can thank John Kerry, Chuck Hagel, Biden, The New York Times, the alphabet channels and The Washington Post for this atrocity because they caused it. " And I think there should be no mercy shown to these sub-humans. I believe that a thousand of them should be killed tomorrow. I think a thousand of them held in the Iraqi prison should be given 24 hour -- a trial and executed. I think they need to be shown that we are not going to roll over to them. It won't happen. It won't happen because of the CBS Communists. It won't happen because of the CNN traitors. I won't happen because of the MSNBC empty heads. And we the people are the ones who are going to suffer today. ... "Instead of putting joysticks, I would have liked to have seen dynamite put in their orifices and they should be dropped from airplanes. How's that? You like that one? Go call somebody that you want to report me to, see if I care. They should put dynamite in their behinds and drop them from 35,000 feet, the whole pack of scum out of that jail. Thank you CBS. Thank you New Yorker. Thank you Carl Levin. Thank you Ted Kennedy. Thank you Hillary Clinton. I'm sure that Mr. Berg's parents appreciate what you've done for them. " "And there's nothing more we can say other than if there's any way to send a letter to Hillary Clinton and tell her to stop it before she kills more [Nick] Bergs, I would appreciate it "

So basically he's admitting he's a full-on Nazi, I see.

http://mediamatters.org/static/audio/savage-20040511-2.mp3 mp3 of it

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=3&u=/ap/20040519/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_attack savage is probably all covered in jizz over this.

dude. when will those motherfuckers learn to stop with the shooting at weddings. christ! didnt they get the Afgahni Wedding Massacre Memo? its just amazing that a helicopter or jet crew would respond with such overwhelming force from the fire of an Ak-47. Moreover, were they directly overheard? I swear to go those chopper jockeys and jet pilots think its a fucking video game.

Wait til they have Bush's proposed new tactical nukes ready to deploy. It will give new meaning to the term, "glowing bride"

i meant to say 'overhead' not 'overheard'.

once again, couldn't have said it better. http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war35.html

i love that guy.

somebody give him some money, an award or something.