| THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016). |
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girls (ages 18-26) starting June 15, 2005, is something that everyone should know about. This literally effects everyone since we all have or know children that will have to go if this bill passes. There is pending legislation in the > house and senate (companion bills: S89 and HR 163) which will time the program's initiation so the draft can begin as early as spring, 2005, just after the 2004 presidential election. > The administration is quietly trying to get these bills passed now, while the > public's attention is on the elections, so our action on this is needed > immediately. Details and links follow. This plan, among other things, > eliminates higher education as a shelter and includes women in the draft. Also, crossing into Canada has already been made very difficult. > Actions: Please send this on to all the parents and teachers you know, > and all the aunts and uncles, grandparents, godparents. > . . And let your children know - - it's their future, and they can be a > powerful voice for change! > This legislation is called HR 163 and can be found in detail at this website: > http://thomas.loc.gov/ Just enter in "HR 163" and click search and will> bring up the bill for you to read. It is less than two pages long. > If this bill passes, it will include all men and ALL WOMEN from ages 18 - 26 > in a draft for military action. In addition, college will no longer be an > option for avoiding the draft and they will be signing an agreement with the > Canada which will no longer permit anyone attempting to dodge the draft to stay within it's borders. This bill also includes the extention of military service for all those that are currently active. If you go to the selective service web site and read their 2004 FYI Goals you will see that the reasoning for this is to increase the size of the military in case of terrorism. This is a critical piece of legislation, this will effect our undergradates, our children and our grandchildren. Please take the time to write your congressman and let them know how you feel about this legislation. > http://www.house.gov/ > http://www.senate.gov/ > Please also write to your representatives and ask them why they aren't telling their constituents about these bills and write to newspapers and other media outlets to ask them why they're not covering this important story. The draft $28 million has been added to the 2004 selective service system budget to prepare for a military draft that could start as early as June 15, 2005. > Selective service must report to Bush on March 31, 2005 that the system, which has lain dormant for decades, is ready for activation. Please see > www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html > to view the Selective Service System annual performance plan, fiscal year 2004. The pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide. Though this is an unpopular election year topic, military experts and influential members of congress are suggesting that if Rumsfeld's prediction of a "long, hard slog" in Iraq and > Afghanistan (and permanent state of war on terrorism) proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to draft. > www.hslda.org/legislation/national/2003/s89/default.asp > entitled the Universal National service Act of 2003, "to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons (age 18-26) in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the committee on armed services. Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era. College and Canada will not be options. In December, 200 1, Canada and the U.S. signed a "smart border declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. > Signed by Canada's minister of foreign affairs, John Manley, and U.S. Homeland > Security director, Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30 point plan which > implements, among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their current semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year. > What to do: Tell your friends, Contact your legislators and ask them to > oppose these bills Just type "congres s" into the aol search engine and > input your zip code. A list of your reps will pop up with a way to > them directly. We can't just sit and pretend that by ignoring it, it will go away. We must voice our concerns and create the world we want to live in for our children and grandchildren. > ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ |
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Just thinking about this new draft bill, though....... I have mentioned my friend in MO, "L" before. She's 19 years old, from a home where she is the scapegoat, and found out 3 weeks before she left for college that she was adopted by her mother, born of an affair from her father and her aunt. She is now a 3 time survivor of cancer. She's got a 3.8 gpa at the university majoring in bioengineering, and other biological studies in sea life. She's first chair playing violin in the university orchestra. She did all of this and was in a play and performed in a ballet, while going through chemotherapy last spring. But lets go ahead and send her to Afganistan/Iraq, when she finishes this semester, so that she can be shot by "rebel forces" or beheaded when captured, after she has survived more than most of us think possible. Oh, the state of our "great nation". Makes me want a good stiff drink (or a few) and a lot of prozac. I wonder though, if this bill passed, would it effect my brother in law? I mean, he leaves for Korea in June, maybe they will just keep him there...............If it weren't for the fact that my sister will be left stateside with not only Christopher (whom she now has back to my dismay) but also with the new infant she is carrying (don't get me started), I would say keeping him out of the country is a GOOD thing. If it looks like the draft like this will be active when my own children become of age (which will be in approx 8 years), I'll have to look into our family becoming citizens of another country...... |
Like it's not really going to make people sit up and listen except that ohmigod this time they're taking GIRLS! oh, wretched equality! "an agreement with the Canada which will no longer permit anyone attempting to dodge the draft to stay within it's borders." uh,... yeah. That's gonna happen. The draft for vietnam boosted our economy like nobody's business. Me likey 50,000 desperate american teens with their sweet sweet american money and nowhere else to go. Hell, I'm looking forward to a draft. I'll but a few bunk beds and make mad cash as a boarding house. I'm only 1.5 hours from the border! bling bling! anyway, i don't know if you've ever crossed the border, but (if you're white) it's a joke. I saw a documentary a few weeks ago about a kid who ran away from his army base in Texas, 3 days before he was set to go to Iraq. This underground railroad system (they exist! isn't it glorious?) picked him up and drove him across the country in 24 hours. Told the border guards they were going to a Leafs game. He couldn't even tell his parents until he called them from ontario the next day. "hi, mom? I'm in Canada. I don't know when i can come back." All he could bring with him was the clothes he was wearing and his cell phone. It was very very sad. If there is another draft, the result will be nothing less than civil war. Just like in Gangs of New York. |
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notice a certain presidential candidate? sorry, just wanted to throw this in somewhere |
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So, they could draft you for your computer skills, no matter how bad your feet are. Spunky could get to serve after all. Medical personnel could be drafted up to age 44. this may or may not be a "tinfoil hat" thing, but check out http://www.blatanttruth.org/draft.php for yourself. |
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A skills draft is also a way for a Republican administration to make a jobs program without political fallout from their traditional conservative allies. Pissing off anti-war liberals is just icing on the cake in that regard. |
Sounds more like North Korea to me. |
This makes me feel dead. |
oppositional feminist political criticism and literary analysis. I can work for the Department of Homeland Toni Morrison novels. |
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I'll probably end up in the military. Shiiiiiiiit. |
The whole idea of ennacting a draft again, just fucks with my head. Especially since I have been reading the paper every day (yes I have been, suprise suprise but my job is so boring there isn't much else to do, I even do the crossword puzzles now, how lame is that?) but the violence is overwhelming, and people in general are stupid. I think my IQ dropped 20 points from reading the political pages. |
why do we need a draft? we already have a larger military than any other country on the planet. they seem to do just fine elsewhere. one thing that bothers me about the whole thing is that they don't talk about the treatment of draftees. would draftees qualify under the gi bill? would people who are forced fight terrorism get health benefits and college aid? i'm considering reading the news, with most mornings being so slow i can hear the gears grinding inside my brain. |
Sounds like yet another neocon scheme to cripple government and weaken unions. If the government loses power, who do you think is waiting to step up? not "we the people" that's for sure. Of course, part of me is really looking forward to seeing folks burning draft cards in the streets again... |
ifwe have corporations rehabilitating governments overseas, then why not here? of course they'd do it. and they'd have millions of underpaid, non-union drafteesto do all the work for them, why not? if working at mcdonald's can be called manufacuting why not pay the actual manufacturers the same wage? oh yes, we are the robots. |
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Please do not invade my country. Thanks. |
But someday...some day.... |
You know I do know some single boys who will marry you to get you in. All you have to do is ask :) |
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I'll be 44 in Nov. so I'm safe. But most of you youngfolks are NOT. And the Spring of 2005 is just a few months away. I suggest you get your asses organized, & start Marching On Washington, With The Quickeness if you don't want to end up in Iraq! They'll keep this quiet until after the elections, but trust me -- with the Senators & Congressmen we have in office now, IT WILL PASS. SO DO SOMETHING! |
I still can't believe my friend hasn't been sent to Iraq yet. I'm especially surprised since he's about to become a father and you know how the military loves to send expectant fathers off to war before ever getting to see their kids... |
I say draft them all. Ship them all off to Iraq. Why shouldn't they have to sweat through a draft like me. Of course I didn't believe in a draft then and I don't believe in one now. But, the thought of some of the jerks I've seen on the streets today being shipped off to Iraq gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. |
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Either that or make it so the government can't use me. At all. |
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website: http://thomas.loc.gov/ Just enter in "HR 163" and click search and will bring up the bill for you to read. It is less than two pages long. If this bill passes, it will include all men and ALL WOMEN from ages 18 - 26 in a draft for military action. In addition, college will no longer be an option for avoiding the draft and they will be signing an agreement with the Canada which will no longer permit anyone attempting to dodge the draft to stay within it's borders. This bill also includes the extension of military service for all those that are currently active. If you go to the select service web site and read their 2004 FYI Goals you will see that the reasoning for this is to increase the size of the military in case of terrorism. This is a critical piece of legislation, this will effect our undergraduates, our children and our grandchildren. Please take the time to write your congressman and let them know how you feel about this legislation. www.house.gov www.senate.gov Please also write to your representatives and ask them why they aren't telling their constituents about these bills and write to newspapers and other media outlets to ask them why they're not covering this important story. The draft $28 million has been added to the 2004 selective service system budget to prepare for a military draft that could start as early as June 15, 2005. Selective service must report to Bush on March 31, 2005 that the system, which has lain dormant for decades, is ready for activation. Please see www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html to view the Selective Service System annual performance plan, fiscal year 2004. The pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide. Though this is an unpopular election year topic, military experts and influential members of congress are suggesting that if Rumsfeld's prediction of a "long, hard slog" in Iraq and Afghanistan (and permanent state of war on terrorism) proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to draft. www.hslda.org/legislation/national/2003/s89/default.asp entitled the Universal National service Act of 2003, "to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons (age 18-26) in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the committee on armed services. Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era. College and Canada will not be options. In December, 200 1, Canada and the U.S. signed a "smart border declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's minister of foreign affairs, John Manley, and U.S. Homeland Security director, Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30 point plan which implements, among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their current semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year. What to do: Tell your friends, Contact your legislators and ask them to oppose these bills Just type "congress" into the aol search engine and input your zip code. A list of your reps will pop up with a way to email them directly. We can't just sit and pretend that by ignoring it, it will go away. We must voice our concerns and create the world we want to live in for our children and grandchildren |
Kerry on Letterman (Quicktime) |
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it's dishonorable to start a war of choice that ends up requiring a draft. they should first draft the children of pro-war politicians, then the employees of the corporations that benefit from the war and their children, then move to the citizens who support the war and their children. in other words, if you aren't smart enough to oppose a war of choice and dodge the draft, oh well. go rude one! |
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It's been a year and a half of unnessessary warfare. We're spending billions to tear up a country and then "rehabilitate" it in a manner that best suits our country (or not even that, the corporations that run our country) in the eyes of the world. I do not blame any terrorists of their actions. They are wrong to brutalize, hurt and kill but we are no better. We say we are standing for Human Rights and Democracy but do you really believe what these people say? I feel less and less of an American every day. If being an American is eating meat, driving a car, talking on a cell phone and demanding all sorts of material goods at low low prices (no matter the hidden costs) then I don't want to be. I am a member of my family, perhaps an Oregonian, definately a Portlander. Things can change though and if circumstances tell me I need to leave, I will. What is the honor of giving up your pride and following the orders of a country you have no wish to support (though the same could be said of taxes and things.... good grief)? Though I must say that I protest much more than if I were too old to be drafted, but many people I know and care about could be drafted as well. In a country that says it's all about freedom, a draft would be an antithesis. |
http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/09/far04032.html |
Me likey. Terry Gilliam is a draft dodger. So is my aunt (in the way that the people who were not drafted but left the states anyway in rage and protest are, i guess.) drafting is fucked - "you guys are all free n' stuff but won't you come kill for us? You don't have a choice, by the way. We're forcing you against your will to fight, kill, and die for the freedom of others. Ironic, no? Why, it's almost like you're fighting so that another country can have the same rights that you just lost! Imagine that! But seriously, don't run away....okay?" or of course, you could just go to jail. |
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After a bitter debate on Bush's handling of Iraq (news - web sites), the House killed the bill 402-2 as Republicans sought to stamp out rumors of an impending draft that have swept college campuses and the Internet, worrying young people and parents across the country. With the presidential and congressional elections less than a month away, the White House also worked to dampen draft rumors that Republicans said have been fueled by Democrats. It threatened to veto the bill it called "both unnecessary and counterproductive." "This campaign is a baseless and malevolent concoction of the Democrat party," said House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, a Texas Republican. "It has one purpose -- to spread fear." Rep. John Conyers (news, bio, voting record), a Michigan Democrat, countered that Bush's Iraq policies have so strained U.S. forces, that a draft was possible no matter how unpopular it would be. "Guess what, we're running out of troops ... Let's not be astounded that what follows is a draft. The only problem is that you can't announce it until after the election," Conyers said." Rep. Charles Rangel (news, bio, voting record), a New York Democrat, said he offered a bill last winter to reinstitute the draft to spark debate on a system that he said placed the burden of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan (news - web sites) on lower-income people who make up most of the volunteer U.S. military. DeLay said Republicans pulled up the long-dormant bill "to expose a fraud" that he said "has been given voice by the leading Democrats" that Bush would move to reimpose the draft after the Nov. 2 election. In the Senate, Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican, called reinstituting the draft "a nonissue" and said it would not be addressed in that chamber. House Democrats accused Republicans of a dirty election-year trick, and used the debate to attack Bush's Iraq policies which they said have left the country in chaos and discouraged help from foreign troops. "This president's foreign policies are what's scaring the kids of this country," said Rep. Tim Ryan (news, bio, voting record), an Ohio Democrat. Some Democrats also said they doubted Bush would have taken the country to war if members of wealthy families had been called on to fight it. "He would never have been able to say bring 'em on with other people's children," Rangel said. "This is a rich man's war, and it's a poor man's fight," said Rep. John Dingell (news, bio, voting record), a Michigan Democrat. "We do not have enough troops in the field to prevail," he said, while accusing Republicans of ducking debate on how to get more forces. White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Bush has made it clear he "strongly supports the all-volunteer military," and "does not believe we need a military draft." "There are some who have tried to bring this up as a scare tactic, and that is highly unfortunate," McClellan said. Rep. Jim McDermott (news, bio, voting record), a Washington Democrat, said, "Every time they get up on television and say there's never going to be a draft ... people start calling our offices saying when's the draft going to start." McDermott said Republicans were worried because new voter registrations were going up "and they know those people are going to come out and vote against them. So they're trying their best to tamp down this fire, but they can't get anyone to believe them any more." (Additional reporting by Thomas Ferraro and Susan Cornwell) |
Speaking of drafts, now we're using the backdoor draft to get our senior citizens involved. A 67-year-old retired Army Colonel and mental health professional was just notified he's being deployed. |
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Sure, it's a left wing site, but they are working off of good info. Especially on the Services draft part. |
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Check out the memo retrieved through FOIA: http://blatanttruth.org/selective_service091304.pdf Note that they are proposing to up draft eligibility age to 34; that they are proposing to be able to draft people not just for the military but also for agencies such as the Border Patrol and Homeland Security; that they are looking at drafting medical personnel; that they are looking at "peacetime" applications of the draft. Heck, you want reasons to vote out Bush? Here's about a thousand of them. I commend you in your quest to learn more, Vet. There may be a lot of us damn pinko lib'rals around here, but none of us wants to see our troops in harms way for no good reason. |
You know, I know TONS of people my age who didn't go straight to college and realized that without an education they weren't going to make what they wanted out there, so what did they want to do? Join the military, put in their time, get the GI bill and then work on a new career. Sounds lame, but it does make sense to the uneducated. Out of all of the people I knew who thought like that and were trying to get into the military (and lets face it there are plenty of them in the midwest to choose from) only ONE of them actually got in. She spent 8 months fighting to get into the Army. There are people out there who want to join the military willingly. The problem is that the military doesn't want them, cuz they want better educated people just like every corporation on the planet. They only want to do so much training, which I guess is understandable. They're looking for people with certain skills, OK, whatever. But there are PLENTY of people out there who would gladly join the military if given a chance, who get turned down, and yet even though there are volunteers by the boatload, there is still talk of a skill based draft? Let the people who WANT to do the work do it before you start drafting. |
it was the best experience, for them anyways. Their young (23 yrs.)and yet to experience other things in their life, instead of War. I'm just glad they made it home safe, together. :) |
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I do know, that they appreciate what they have here, so to me, it was the best thing for them. A chance to grow up. |
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I sure hope they didn't have to do anything nasty over there. I've read too many accounts about combat situations from Iraq. The one that haunts me the most was from a soldier escorting a truck convoy that got ambushed, and while retreating he noted he was taking fire from two little boys (about 8 years old) with AK-47s. He ended up returning fire after getting hit and he was sure he killed at least one. |
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I'm proud of them both. |
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