| THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016). |
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2 hours, 57 minutes ago OTTAWA (AFP) - In a landmark ruling, Canada's Supreme Court said the government was within its constitutional rights to change the definition of marriage to allow gay and lesbian weddings. The ruling, on a draft law, cleared the final obstacle for Canada to follow the Netherlands and Belgium in authorizing same-sex marriage. Spain is moving in a similar direction. The legislation is expected to win the necessary support in parliament, after it is introduced by the government early next year. But the court ruled that religious officials could not be compelled to marry same sex couples, if the practice ran counter to their beliefs. It also declined to rule on the question of whether a change to the laws regarding same-sex marriage was required by the constitution, a move that could complicate the task of shepherding the draft law through parliament. Prime Minister Paul Martin said he had wrestled with the issue, but decided to support gay marriage as he did not believe Canada could have "two classes of citizens." He recognised that it was a difficult choice for many Canadians and members of parliament, but added "I think we are a very mature nation, I think we can undertake that kind of debate. "I am no way concerned that we are one of the countries leading on this kind of issue." The government had taken the unusual step of asking for a Supreme Court ruling on draft legislation last year. Thursday's ruling was a blow to advocates of traditional marriage, who wanted the government to permit civil unions between couples of the same sex, but not sanction full scale marriages. "My position will be to preserve the traditional definition of marriage in the law," said opposition Conservative leader Stephen Harper. "The government bill is going to be about obviously redefining," he said. Government plans would see the definition of marriage changed to the "lawful union of two persons," rather than the "lawful union of one man and one woman." While the government was waiting for a judgement before changing federal law on same-sex marriage, courts in six Canadian provinces and one territory had already ruled that same-sex marriage was legal. The court was posed four questions by the government : - Is parliament allowed to change same sex marriage laws? - Is the proposal constitutional? - Does freedom of religion permit priests to refuse to marry gay couples? - Is a change to the traditional definition of marriage as between a man and woman required by the constitution. The court responded "Yes" to each of the first three questions, which were posed last year by the previous government of premier Jean Chretien. But it exercised its prerogative not to issue a ruling on the fourth question, which was added by the current government led by Martin in January. The final inquiry was motivated by a desire to standardise law between any provinces which ruled that marriage was a state between a man and a woman. "We will not permit the balkanisation of marriage across the country," Martin said. ----------- So fuck you Harper, and fuck you Alberta, equality will reign for sea to motherfucking shining sea. I hope they get all this done by Gay Day, thus making it the BIGGEST party EVER. I'm hyped just thinking about it! Might have to take all of Pride Week off work.....I'm getting misty... |
you crazy canadianians. |
moving to canada. |
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box turtles not for food. |
If clergy can not be compelled to perform religious rites they disagree with, who'se to say that they can't sue their church in court for "compelling" them to do things they don't like? Why stop with gar marriage? What if they WANT to perform gay marriages and their church forbids it? You could say that their church could try to kick them out of the clergy, but wouldn't expulsion be a form of compulsion? Maybe the ruling says that the government can't compel any religion to perform gay marriages. If so, the above does not apply. But if it's worded too broadly it could insert the state between the clergy and the church. Wouldn't that be fun? |
maybe put some wurthers in it and set it on an end table. |
and fill his shell with candy for the neighbor kids. dish 2: 1- i think Dani is a kooz [haha, i'm so funny. i don't even know what a kooz is.] 2-i have no up and coming plan to move to the netherlands, it is but a dream. [*crie*] but i guess that means i can move to canada if i want to, or scotland! yeah! 3- when they outlaw marriage only outlaws will be married. 4- i like sound track music where they seem to have used the shout of a small choir for emphasis. 5- safety first! |
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ie) You can't get married in a catholic church with a catholic ceremony unless both people are catholic. And you can't have a jewish wedding in a temple unless you are jewish. The way it is now, if gay people want to get married in a church, the priest first asks the parishoners (sp?) if they care or not. That's how the anglicans do it, anyway. |
mandates birth control which is kind of the same thing. okay no not really that was stupid and not funny |
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I always wondered how you clean a turtle, and which parts you eat, not that I'm thinking of eating our turtle, but which parts are edible -- legs? neck? liver? heart? The only dish I know of which calls for turtle is turtle soup, which I've had several times -- it's ok, kind of like Manhattan clam chowder but with turtle meat, and I could do without it. My only other turtle experience was a couple of years ago when my wife and me were driving on a back road somewhere in the middle of nowhere in upstate NY, and there was a bigass turtle in the road, so my wife hopped out and ran up to it -- I yelled at her to be careful, it might be a snapping turtle, and it was. We got a big stick and moved it to the side of the road, although it didn't act very pleased about being prodded and shoved with a stick. But we had done our good deed for the day. |
In the book Life of Pi, I read that sea turtle blood is good to drink if you're stranded at sea. It's not salty. |
I like turtles. And gee-raffs. |
Brilliant. |
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He's the best Ninja Turtle. |
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I want to move to Canada. |
Although, I have a dandy coconut bra that is a sure crowd pleaser. Albeit,it is not very comfortable, but its an eye catcher. OOps, sorry, wrong species. |
I know I do not want to be a full-time stacker, but if the pay worked out with this job and there are sufficiant intellectual challenges, I could see myself staying in the position for good. I can't say that about my current job. I love working with books. they put me at ease. |
another mark morford column. canada, please save us. |
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too many americans are idealizing or demonizing Canada. Canada, really, is no big deal, okay? and that thing about not locking our doors? what a pile of horseshit. I could kick Michael Moore in the head. |
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See, to protect the flawless holy grail that is marriage from the evil scourge of man-love, good old Klein has vowed that if same-sex marriage is deemed OK by parliment, he will have Alberta scrap "marriage" entierly, and just call any legal union a "civil union", gay or not. Uhm, wait.... Same shit, different name, cowboy! I think he's just in love with the word 'marriage'. The guy cracks me up. This system is already in place in Quebec, and is one that I (as a hard-core supporter of gay rights) actually prefer. Why? Because marriage can legaly be performed by both the government AND churches. It is the only thing you can do this with, but you can't go and get baptised in your local town hall, and you can't get a driver's license from a priest. It's hard to explain so i hope you get my point, but the division of church and state is somehow passed over in regards to marriage. Churches should not have this authority. In this system, any couple wanting to be legally joined will be able to do so only by the government, and this will be called "civil union", right across the board. To have a "marriage" you must have a seperate ceremony within your religion of choice, but this will be marriage in name only, meaningless outside your own religion, not to be recognized legally in any way. Kindof like how a Bar Mitzvah means a jewish boy is now a "man" within his own religion, but it doesn't mean he can go vote and drive a car legally. Anyway, waytta go Ralph, you friggen genious. |
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I lock em at night, but in the daytime, its anyones guess if they're unlocked or locked |
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I try to remember to lock my door, but I'm not very good at it. |
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http://www.cpac.ca |
my god ---------------- Historic Commons vote paves way for same-sex marriage across Canada OTTAWA (CP) - It was fought in courtrooms, in legislatures, in street protests, and one of the most turbulent debates in Canadian history was settled Tuesday with a vote in Parliament. The House of Commons voted 158 to 133 to adopt controversial legislation that will make Canada the third country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage. Several Liberals marked the occasion by invoking the memory of their party's philosopher king, Pierre Trudeau. It was the late Liberal prime minister who decriminalized homosexuality in 1969, and whose Charter of Rights and Freedoms became the legal cudgel that smashed the traditional definition of marriage. Barely two years ago the Liberal government was still fighting same-sex couples in courts across the land. It changed its tune amid an onslaught of legal verdicts in eight provinces that found traditional marriage laws violated the charter's guarantee of equality for all Canadians. "(This) is about the Charter of Rights," Prime Minister Paul Martin said earlier Tuesday. "We are a nation of minorities. And in a nation of minorities, it is important that you don't cherry-pick rights. "A right is a right and that is what this vote tonight is all about." But there was no unanimity even within Liberal ranks. More than two dozen Liberal MPs voted against the controversial Bill C-38, to cheers from the Tory caucus. One even exiled himself to the backbenches to vote against the bill. Joe Comuzzi resigned his cabinet seat Tuesday as minister for northern Ontario's economic development. The House immediately adjourned for the summer after the same-sex vote, and won't meet again until Sept. 26 - ending one of the most tumultuous sessions in Canadian parliamentary history. The same-sex marriage bill will become official once it receives approval in the Senate, likely within days. With it the barriers to gay and lesbian weddings will tumble in Alberta, P.E.I., Nunavut and the Northwest Territories - the last jurisdictions where courts have not yet struck down the marriage law. The legislation applies to civic weddings at public places, like city halls and courthouses. No religious groups will be forced to sanctify same-sex marriages if they don't want to. But Conservatives promise the debate isn't over yet. Leader Stephen Harper said he will bring back the same-sex marriage law for another vote if he wins the next election. "There will be a chance to revisit this in a future Parliament," Harper said. "Our intention is to have a free vote." How Harper might handle the issue in future is unclear since almost every provincial and territorial government has made gay marriage legal. Michael Savage spoke poignantly about a member of his own family, and described the tolerance that he says makes Canada special. "I have not compromised my faith in supporting this legislation. I have embraced it," he said. "The fact that we (in Canada) are among the first is not something we should hide. It's something we should celebrate. . . . "(We are) a nation of equality. A nation of strength. A nation of compassion. A nation that believes we're stronger together than we are apart. And a nation where we celebrate equality. . . . "We will send a statement to the world that in Canada gays and lesbians will not be considered second-class citizens." One Tory MP scoffed at the Liberals' self-proclaimed defence of human rights. He said the government has failed to protect the rights of children by refusing to toughen child-pornography laws or by raising the age of sexual consent above 14. "I'm sick and tired of hearing people on that side of the House talking about rights, rights," Myron Thompson said. "I can point to dozens of things we've seen in the last 12 years where they have refused to give rights to certain individuals." In the last two years, same-sex marriage has gone from being legally feasible to a fait accompli. |
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050630/ap_on_re_eu/spain_gay_marriage;_ylt=AoiB5dFfGKiQIRXFMjVHt6is0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY- Paul Martin's speech on same-sex marriage source: Government of Canada Address by Prime Minister Paul Martin on Bill C-38 (The Civil Marriage Act) February 16, 2005 House of Commons, Canada I rise today in support of Bill C-38, the Civil Marriage Act. I rise in support of a Canada in which liberties are safeguarded, rights are protected and the people of this land are treated as equals under the law. This is an important day. The attention of our nation is focused on this chamber, in which John Diefenbaker introduced the Bill of Rights, in which Pierre Trudeau fought to establish the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Our deliberations will be not merely about a piece of legislation or sections of legal text - more deeply, they will be about the kind of nation we are today, and the nation we want to be. This bill protects minority rights. This bill affirms the Charter guarantee of religious freedom. It is that straightforward, Mr. Speaker, and it is that important. And that is why I stand today before members here and before the people of this country to say I believe in, and I will fight for, the Charter of Rights. I believe in, and I will fight for, a Canada that respects the foresight and vision of those who created and entrenched the Charter. I believe in, and I will fight for, a future in which generations of Canadians to come, Canadians born here and abroad, will have the opportunity to value the Charter as we do today - as an essential pillar of our democratic freedoms. There have been a number of arguments put forward by those who do not support this bill. It's important and respectful to examine them and to assess them. First, some have claimed that, once this bill becomes law, religious freedoms will be less than fully protected. This is demonstrably untrue. As it pertains to marriage, the government's legislation affirms the Charter guarantee that religious officials are free to perform such ceremonies in accordance with the beliefs of their faith. In this, we are guided by the ruling of the Supreme Court of Canada, which makes clear that in no church, no synagogue, no mosque, no temple - in no religious house will those who disagree with same-sex unions be compelled to perform them. Period. That is why this legislation is about civil marriage, not religious marriage. Moreover -- and this is crucially important -- the Supreme Court has declared unanimously, and I quote "The guarantee of religious freedom in section 2(a) of the Charter is broad enough to protect religious officials from being compelled by the state to perform civil or religious same-sex marriages that are contrary to their religious beliefs." The facts are plain: Religious leaders who preside over marriage ceremonies must and will be guided by what they believe. If they do not wish to celebrate marriages for same-sex couples, that is their right. The Supreme Court says so. And the Charter says so. One final observation on this aspect of the issue: Religious leaders have strong views both for and against this legislation. They should express them. Certainly, many of us in this House, myself included, have a strong faith, and we value that faith and its influence on the decisions we make. But all of us have been elected to serve here as Parliamentarians. And as public legislators, we are responsible for serving all Canadians and protecting the rights of all Canadians. We will be influenced by our faith but we also have an obligation to take the widest perspective -- to recognize that one of the great strengths of Canada is its respect for the rights of each and every individual, to understand that we must not shrink from the need to reaffirm the rights and responsibilities of Canadians in an evolving society. The second argument ventured by opponents of the bill is that government ought to hold a national referendum on this issue. I reject this - not out of a disregard for the view of the people, but because it offends the very purpose of the Charter. The Charter was enshrined to ensure that the rights of minorities are not subjected, are never subjected, to the will of the majority. The rights of Canadians who belong to a minority group must always be protected by virtue of their status as citizens, regardless of their numbers. These rights must never be left vulnerable to the impulses of the majority. We embrace freedom and equality in theory, Mr. Speaker. We must also embrace them in fact. Third, some have counseled the government to extend to gays and lesbians the right to "civil union." This would give same-sex couples many of the rights of a wedded couple, but their relationships would not legally be considered marriage. In other words, they would be equal, but not quite as equal as the rest of Canadians. Mr. Speaker, the courts have clearly and consistently ruled that this option would offend the equality provisions of the Charter. For instance, the British Columbia Court of Appeal stated that, and I quote "Marriage is the only road to true equality for same-sex couples. Any other form of recognition of same-sex relationships ...falls short of true equality." Put simply, we must always remember that "separate but equal" is not equal. What's more, those who call for the establishment of civil unions fail to understand that the Government of Canada does not have the constitutional jurisdiction to do so. Only the provinces have that. Only the provinces could define such a regime - and they could define it in 10 different ways, and some jurisdictions might not bother to define it at all. There would be uncertainty. There would be confusion. There would certainly not be equality. Fourth, some are urging the government to respond to the decisions of the courts by getting out of the marriage business altogether. That would mean no more civil weddings for any couples. It is worth noting that this idea was rejected by the major religions themselves when their representatives appeared before the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights in 2003. Moreover, it would be an extreme and counterproductive response for the government to deny civil marriage to opposite-sex couples simply so it can keep it from same-sex couples. To do so would simply be to replace one form of discrimination with another. Finally, Mr. Speaker, there are some who oppose this legislation who would have the government use the notwithstanding clause in the Charter of Rights to override the courts and reinstate the traditional definition of marriage. And really, this is the fundamental issue here. Understand that in seven provinces and one territory, the lawful union of two people of the same sex in civil marriage is already the law of the land. The debate here today is not about whether to change the definition of marriage - it's been changed. The debate comes down to whether we should override a right that is now in place. The debate comes down to the Charter, the protection of minority rights, and whether the federal government should invoke the notwithstanding clause. I know that some think we should use the clause. For example, some religious leaders feel this way. I respect their candor in publicly recognizing that because same-sex marriage is already legal in most of the country, the only way - the only way - to again make civil marriage the exclusive domain of opposite-sex couples is to use the notwithstanding clause. Ultimately Mr. Speaker, there is only one issue before this House in this debate. For most Canadians, in most parts of our country, same-sex marriage is already the law of the land. Thus, the issue is not whether rights are to be granted. The issue is whether rights that have been granted are to be taken away. Some are frank and straightforward and say yes. Others have not been so candid. Despite being confronted with clear facts, despite being confronted with the unanimous opinion of 134 legal scholars, experts in their field, intimately familiar with the Constitution, some have chosen to not be forthright with Canadians. They have eschewed the honest approach in favour of the political approach. They have attempted to cajole the public into believing that we can return to the past with a simple snap of the fingers, that we can revert to traditional definition of marriage without consequence and without overriding the Charter. They're insincere. They're disingenuous. And they're wrong. There is one question that demands an answer - a straight answer - from those who would seek to lead this nation and its people. It is a simple question Will you use the notwithstanding clause to overturn the definition of civil marriage and deny to Canadians a right guaranteed under the Charter? This question does not demand rhetoric. It demands clarity. There are only two legitimate answers - yes or no. Not the demagoguery we have heard, not the dodging, the flawed reasoning, the false options. Just yes or no. Will you take away a right as guaranteed under the Charter? I, for one, will answer that question, Mr. Speaker. I will answer it clearly. I will say no. The notwithstanding clause is part of the Charter of Rights. But there's a reason that no prime minister has ever used it. For a prime minister to use the powers of his office to explicitly deny rather than affirm a right enshrined under the Charter would serve as a signal to all minorities that no longer can they look to the nation's leader and to the nation's Constitution for protection, for security, for the guarantee of their freedoms. We would risk becoming a country in which the defence of rights is weighed, calculated and debated based on electoral or other considerations. That would set us back decades as a nation. It would be wrong for the minorities of this country. It would be wrong for Canada. The Charter is a living document, the heartbeat of our Constitution. It is also a proclamation. It declares that as Canadians, we live under a progressive and inclusive set of fundamental beliefs about the value of the individual. It declares that we all are lessened when any one of us is denied a fundamental right. We cannot exalt the Charter as a fundamental aspect of our national character and then use the notwithstanding clause to reject the protections that it would extend. Our rights must be eternal, not subject to political whim. To those who value the Charter yet oppose the protection of rights for same-sex couples, I ask you If a prime minister and a national government are willing to take away the rights of one group, what is to say they will stop at that? If the Charter is not there today to protect the rights of one minority, then how can we as a nation of minorities ever hope, ever believe, ever trust that it will be there to protect us tomorrow? My responsibility as Prime Minister, my duty to Canada and to Canadians, is to defend the Charter in its entirety. Not to pick and choose the rights that our laws shall protect and those that are to be ignored. Not to decree those who shall be equal and those who shall not. My duty is to protect the Charter, as some in this House will not. Let us never forget that one of the reasons that Canada is such a vibrant nation, so diverse, so rich in the many cultures and races of the world, is that immigrants who come here - as was the case with the ancestors of many of us in this chamber - feel free and are free to practice their religion, follow their faith, live as they want to live. No homogenous system of beliefs is imposed on them. When we as a nation protect minority rights, we are protecting our multicultural nature. We are reinforcing the Canada we value. We are saying, proudly and unflinchingly, that defending rights - not just those that happen to apply to us, not just that everyone approves of, but all fundamental rights - is at the very soul of what it means to be a Canadian. This is a vital aspect of the values we hold dear and strive to pass on to others in the world who are embattled, who endure tyranny, whose freedoms are curtailed, whose rights are violated. Why is the Charter so important, Mr. Speaker? We have only to look at our own history. Unfortunately, Canada's story is one in which not everyone's rights were protected under the law. We have not been free from discrimination, bias, unfairness. There have been blatant inequalities. Remember that it was once thought perfectly acceptable to deny women "personhood" and the right to vote. There was a time, not that long ago, that if you wore a turban, you couldn't serve in the RCMP. The examples are many, but what's important now is that they are part of our past, not our present. Over time, perspectives changed. We evolved, we grew, and our laws evolved and grew with us. That is as it should be. Our laws must reflect equality not as we understood it a century or even a decade ago, but as we understand it today. For gays and lesbians, evolving social attitudes have, over the years, prompted a number of important changes in the law. Recall that, until the late 1960s, the state believed it had the right to peek into our bedrooms. Until 1977, homosexuality was still sufficient grounds for deportation. Until 1992, gay people were prohibited from serving in the military. In many parts of the country, gays and lesbians could not designate their partners as beneficiaries under employee medical and dental benefits, insurance policies or private pensions. Until very recently, people were being fired merely for being gay. Today, we rightly see discrimination based on sexual orientation as arbitrary, inappropriate and unfair. Looking back, we can hardly believe that such rights were ever a matter for debate. It is my hope that we will ultimately see the current debate in a similar light; realizing that nothing has been lost or sacrificed by the majority in extending full rights to the minority. Without our relentless, inviolable commitment to equality and minority rights, Canada would not be at the forefront in accepting newcomers from all over the world, in making a virtue of our multicultural nature - the complexity of ethnicities and beliefs that make up Canada, that make us proud that we are where our world is going, not where it's been. Four years ago, I stood in this House and voted to support the traditional definition of marriage. Many of us did. My misgivings about extending the right of civil marriage to same-sex couples were a function of my faith, my perspective on the world around us. But much has changed since that day. We've heard from courts across the country, including the Supreme Court. We've come to the realization that instituting civil unions - adopting a "separate but equal" approach - would violate the equality provisions of the Charter. We've confirmed that extending the right of civil marriage to gays and lesbians will not in any way infringe on religious freedoms. And so where does that leave us? It leaves us staring in the face of the Charter of Rights with but a single decision to make Do we abide by the Charter and protect minority rights, or do we not? To those who would oppose this bill, I urge you to consider that the core of the issue before us today is whether the rights of all Canadians are to be respected. I believe they must be. Justice demands it. Fairness demands it. The Canada we love demands it. Mr. Speaker In the 1960s, the government of Lester Pearson faced opposition as it moved to entrench official bilingualism. But it persevered, and it won the day. Its members believed it was the right thing to do, and it was. In the 1980s, the government of Pierre Trudeau faced opposition as it attempted to repatriate the Constitution and enshrine a Charter of Rights and Freedoms. But it persevered, and it won the day. Its members believed it was the right thing to do, and it was. There are times, Mr. Speaker, when we as Parliamentarians can feel the gaze of history upon us. They felt it in the days of Pearson. They felt it in the days of Trudeau. And we, the 308 men and women elected to represent one of the most inclusive, just and respectful countries on the face of this earth, feel it today. There are few nations whose citizens cannot look to Canada and see their own reflection. For generations, men and women and families from the four corners of the globe have made the decision to chose Canada to be their home. Many have come here seeking freedom -- of thought, religion and belief. Seeking the freedom simply to be. The people of Canada have worked hard to build a country that opens its doors to include all, regardless of their differences; a country that respects all, regardless of their differences; a country that demands equality for all, regardless of their differences. If we do not step forward, then we step back. If we do not protect a right, then we deny it. Mr. Speaker, together as a nation, together as Canadians Let us step forward. |
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everyday there is another reason to move out of the country |