Bankruptcy


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By patrick on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 08:51 pm:

    I've been following this piece of legistlation in the last week.
    http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/latimests/20050309/ts_latimes/bankruptcybillonbrinkofpassing

    Why is the republican argument that consumers are "abusing" current bankruptcy laws ringing the same bell as when I hear anti-abotion activists cite women who "abuse" the right to an abortion?

    In the case of bankruptcy, I'd dare say those "abusing" it are in the extreme minority. What a crock shit. most who get into a situation in which bankruptcy is a necessity got there through unforseen circumstances, like a sudden, great medical expenditure, or general financial ignorance in which using the bankruptcy courts in abusive manner is an unlikely motive.

    The rich and business saavy are the ones most likely to abuse bankruptcy laws and this legislation appears not to be aimed at them in the slightest.

    Credit card companies and banks are supposedly posting record profits these days, so why is the reform even needed?

    It's irritating as this is one of the more clearly partisan issues that will fall simply due to the democrat imcompetency to win elections and maintain some sort of fight. And its only March 05. We have until, at least Nov 06 to hope for a shift in the house and Nov 08 for a change in the white house. a long dark time is ahead...


By beta on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 11:43 pm:

    its nice to know that at least the senate supports anti-abortion activists' right to abuse bankruptcy laws...

    chuck fights the good fight


By eri on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 12:17 pm:

    I've just finished reading an article on this as well, but you beat me to the punch.

    It isn't just credit card debt they are talking about blocking, but also medical bills. I cannot even begin to fathom this one. My situation, my "bad credit". Micki was born 3 months early and was in the hospital for 7 weeks (not news). During this time Spunky was transitioning between jobs and for ONE FUCKING DAY we were without insurance. Micki's bills between the hospital and the doctor? In the neighborhood of $200,000. For ONE FUCKING DAY. So I don't have $200,000 laying around to pay this bill, what if I did decide to file for bankruptcy? This would be the biggest bill on my credit record. No credit card debt. So this would be the biggest thing to clear up, my medical bills from and emergency early delivery of my youngest child. But now with this new law, I would still have to pay it anyways?

    And WTF does the abortion issue have to do with bankruptcy? Seriously, why would the two ever be connected? This one just blows my mind.


By patrick on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 01:43 pm:

    beta, eri, the dem's have used that sort of rider amendment to beat this bankruptcy legistlation in previous years. it worked. now, with the new majority, its easily overcome.


By patrick on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 01:44 pm:

    its the sucker punch of the little guy.


By Platypus on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 01:51 pm:

    And medical expenses are a leading cause of bankruptcy. Classic.


By patrick on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 02:09 pm:

    wait....Bush & Co revamped medicare with that lil pill plan thing. so thats all good now platy.


By patrick on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 02:10 pm:

    people be savin money everywhich way so they can pay their debts.


By eri on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 04:51 pm:

    It looks like the medical care bills are only going to get worse on this front. Micki is now on 3 meds for her allergies/asthma, one of which is OTC and expensive, and now they are adding a nebulizer which is a monthly bill for the nebulizer and another prescription, plus we need to put her back on nutritional supplements to try to get her skinny butt to gain weight and that's going to be very pricey even if we limit it to one supplement shake a day instead of the recommended 3 a day. OY VEY...........

    But enough of my woes. This whole thing pisses me off. If you have a medical emergency or a medical need that you cannot afford......fuck, don't get me started right now, as I have to sit in my damned apartment and wait for a call that says that the Apria guys are on their way with more machinery I can't afford, and God forbid that I be put in a situation where I had to file for bankruptcy because I have special needs babies (which is not by choice of course)and oops, now I can't file cuz it's medical bills? Really, medical bills shouldn't ever be so bad that someone HAS TO FILE IN THE FIRST PLACE, which is taking my rant into another direction.

    Oh, and Micki has Strep, and she got an antibiotic prescribed, but if anyone else wants to be treated, they have to make another appointment and then get their prescription called in at that time........I'm already going without food (except for one meal a day) lets just make it so I can't get medicine too cuz of the damned co-pays for the entire family........

    Oh, and BTW, my throat hurts and has been hurting for a while, but I haven't had any other symptoms so I didn't think strep...........


By Platypus on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 04:59 pm:

    Eri is the nebulizer an as-needed medication or is she supposed to do a set number of breathing treatments a week? And what medication are they directing you to use in it? (I'm wondering if I have any hanging around, since my doctor is always giving me shit for free. I will also ask around and see if any of my asthmatic friends has a spare nebulizer, although I don't.)

    Is the spunks going to get better insurance coverage with his new job? Healthcare is a real bitch. I really lucked out with my insurance provider.

    And, furthermore, do they have any support centres for parents with special needs children, or the like, around you? I know here the Cancer Resource Centre, for example, is always passing out cases of Ensure and other weight supplements, and they also work with WIC (Women, Infants, Children), to distribute donations. Don't be afraid to seek out support in your community--any town of a reasonable size is going to have resources you can use.

    And get tested for strep.


By eri on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 05:38 pm:

    I'm going to get tested for strep asap. Gotta see how much we have once we have Micki taken care of. I MIGHT (pray pray pray) be able to talk MY doctor into giving a scrip for antibiotics for both Trace and I.

    The nebulizer will be as needed, but right now it is going to be needed a lot. She wakes up several times a night having asthma attacks. I was up with her like 4 or 5 times last night alone. The prescription is just albuterol for now.

    Still haven't heard back on the nebulizer either. Sucks. It's like limbo sitting around and waiting for info.

    Social Security put Micki through some testing 3 years ago, and since she was fine in her developmental skills (fine motor skills, etc) they declared her no longer special needs, and since then WIC won't help us anymore. They did supply her nutritional supplements for the first 3 years, but we got cut off. Because her weight issue doesn't have a "diagnosis" or a specific reason for it by doctors (geez she was a 1 lb preemie, what else do they need?) I have a hard time finding help from any other groups. But I will start digging harder. You would think there are help groups for preemies who are clinically normal but still have problems. Something.

    Spunky's new job. He's feeling guilty right now. It won't provide any health coverage until he has been there 90 days. At that point it will cover him and he can pay full price coverage for the rest of us (this is until he goes perm with HP). I told him to look into cobra health insurance from KCI, but he's afraid of how much it will cost.


By Spider on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 05:45 pm:

    Eri, you might look into Fortis. I used this insurance when I was unemployed for 6 months.


By eri on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 06:13 pm:

    OK, better news for the moment. According to Micki's doctors office, the insurance is paying for us to have the nebulizer, and it will not be the month to month, but we will own it. Huge relief there. I spoke with Apria and it should be delivered to our house at around 5pm this evening. If there becomes a problem my sister says that she has a spare she can send me. My parents got one when they became Christopher's foster parents and my sister got one when she got Christopher back, and she's living with them, so she can spare it if necessary.

    So now it is the prescriptions and medications which we will figure out once we don't have to wait around for a delivery this evening.

    So the only real issue we will have will be figuring out how to pay for refills on the prescriptions, but we will have a little bit of time to figure that out............

    breath of fresh air........

    We will definately be looking into healthcare options, and will look at that one as well.

    I still think the stuff about the changes in filing for bankruptcy are totally bullshit, and I think there is something wrong with the system if the most popular reason for filing for bankruptcy is medical bills. I think this whole thing will ONLY benefit corporate america and that royally gets my dander up. I have more to say on this one but it will have to wait, cuz I need to go pick up Spunky from work (the joys of a one vehicle family).


By patrick on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 06:54 pm:

    theres a great dialog here on To The Point, a great local show hosted by Warren Olney about the bankruptcy matter.


    http://kcrw.com/cgi-bin/ram_wrap.cgi?/tp/tp050310Congress_Moves_to_St

    *jump to approx the 8 minute mark. The 4 people Warren speaks to are respected professionals on both sides of the matter. He asks the right questions. In particular, around the 24-25 minute mark it gets really good as Elizabeth Warren, from Harvard Law School nails Joesph Poemkala, a professor of economics at some Univ in MD as he propels the same tired bullshit about the abuse of the system.

    He says, "I cannot fathom the bankruptcy rates being so high and that many people are in dire straits. it's fathomable that people are that bad off. "

    She says "Interesting way at looking at data. He says 'because there are a lot of filings, there must be abuse' yet he cites no data that studies the families that actually file."

    She cites data that demonstrates 2/3 of families that file suffered job loss in the last year.

    Anyway, listen to it. It's a great conversation and shed's some really great light on this important legistlation.


By wisper on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 10:49 pm:

    Someone in the USA files for bankruptcy due to medical bills every 30 seconds.

    that's 2.2 million people a year.

    Medical bills account for HALF of all bankruptcies filed in America, it is indeed the single most popular cause.


By Rowlfe on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 12:23 am:

    ...but of course, somehow its socialized medicine thats evil...


By semillama on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 10:48 am:

    of course it's evil. it's sole purpose is not to increase profit. That's how you see the EVIL.

    How much more fucking in the ass do you think the American people are capable of?


By J on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 10:59 am:

    Capable of taking it up the ass? My ass is overwhelmed as it is,stuffed.


By eri on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 11:53 am:

    Hey guys, I started this conversation with Spunky last night, and was relentless for a change debunking every comment he made, and he actually admitted that this is only to make good on a campaign promise to the banking corporations and it will only hurt the people in the end........

    Yeah me.

    The bottom line fact is that there are a lot of people out there suffering in this country. A lot of people in all walks of life who need help. People who lose jobs, have injuries, don't have a proper education, the list goes on and on. So lets take away a resource that many good people use to get their lives on track, to make it so they can start over and limit their suffering, and say they can't do it anymore. They're stuck, their families are stuck.

    Everything is limited as it is. Limited by labels or numbers. You can't be diagnosed with a disease you KNOW you have unless your numbers are this.......You can't whine about not being able to find a job when the unemployment rate is only this........You can't get help from this program because your income is $10 a month over the poverty level........No help from that program at all simply because someone in your household happens to have employment, doesn't matter that it is one person working for minimum wage part time in a family of 6, one person has a job so you are "ineligible" for help.

    We already have to dig around for ways to make it from day to day and give our families decent lives, not rich ones, but decent ones, and that's the middle class.

    This whole thing makes me so frickin ANGRY.


By semillama on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 02:43 pm:

    Tell spunky that Joe Biden, a democrat, is getting a lot of shit for signing on for this. MBNA is his biggest corporate donor. It's not partisan, it's the corporate greed-hogs vs. the American People, and who's really on the side of the people can be seen by who voted for it and who voted against it, regardless of whether or not there's an 'r' or 'd' after their names.


By wisper on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 09:07 pm:

    eri, your story of how much it cost to loose your health care for a mere day chilled me to the fucking bone.
    It's so fucked up, beyond comprehension.


By Gee on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 04:03 am:

    iy's where we'll be in a few more years, wisper.


    goodbye, health care. I heardly knew ye.


By patrick on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 02:41 pm:

    MBNA, Citibank and a couple others be seeing me make a gesture that often communicates the suggestion of fucking off very soon. I look forward to this.

    considering our wealth as a nation, the state of our healthcare and education systems are deplorable and embarrassing.




By eri on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 03:13 pm:

    I had a discussion about the education system with a new neighbor yesterday. She didn't realize how much more young children needed to know now to start Kindergarten vs. when we were kids. Her daughter is 4. I had to explain to her about how our education system in this country is so far behind others. That our bachelor's degree is the equivalent of a high school diploma in most of Europe.

    So many people around here are so naive when it comes to education and healthcare. As long as they have it, it's all good, right? Oy vey.

    It was kinda funny, though. Her husband is military and has travelled a fair share of other countries and sat down with me and discussed educational standards the military provide for their schools in foreign counties and how far behind we are here.

    He was shocked at his wife's expectations, because for him the things I described (writing complete sentences in kindergarten, algebra taught in 5th grade, things like that) were normal in all the other countries had been to.

    But I do have to admit that I am glad we don't have much in the line of major loans to pay off, banks to send loads of money to, and my kids are having more expected of them in their schools.


By patrick on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 05:32 pm:

    So the pussys passed it.

    One more for big business. The gap widens.

    GOP Leadership disallowed 35 proposed Democratic amendments. Nooooo they aren't bipartisian. One of those amendments included not allowing special consideration for soldiers returning from war, who find their careers in shambles, their finances ruined...especially the ones who have been injured and can no longer work and have medical bills. Nope. Sorry.


    " Rep. David Dreier (news, bio, voting record), R-Calif., said the legislation would save American families an average $400 a year in higher interest rates now charged to consumers to recoup losses from those who abuse bankruptcy proceedings"


    Oh, yeah, bankruptcy filings have actually come down in the last year, did the banks reduce rates? Noooo Mr. Dreier. Since when do credit card companies give back to the customer? They won't be reducing their rates because of this legistlation, they'll just be making more.

    let me out... let me out of here.


By heather on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 06:10 pm:

    half an inch a few inches apart
    the blood follows knowingly
    draping warm ribbons into the grass


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