Abe... hahahaha your mom most likely thinks the same as you do about your kid. do us all a favor and get a real life.

It dont matter if a child is uglier than a swamp creature or dumber than a stick of wood. It's up to the parents to build a childs self esteem and confidence. Adults can take care of themselves and feel anyway they want about themselves but children have no one to take care of them but us parents. And you can bet your ass that thanks to Asshole Abe, his daughter will be just like him. Which is really sad because all kids have a fighting chance to be decent adults...but not with people like Abe as role models. Makes me wonder what kinda woman would actually fuck Abe in the first place. Nasty bastard.

Dani, i couldn't agree with you more. Somebody has to have some faith in the future of our planet, or else why bother getting up everyday. I think it's a good thing that people with negative mindsets don't have any children themselves, because they tend to pass these attitudes on down to their children. it doesn't have to be that way. my daughter is awesome, and smart, and pretty, and i feel confident that bringing her on to this planet was a great idea.

High five to that Agatha..Having my daughter was the best thing I ever did..she makes me laugh..she makes me feel happy...she's my daughter and my best friend. No one can make me feel as loved as my daughter does. Nothing in the world like it. I constantly tell her how pretty she is and how smart she is and what an all around good girl she is. And me telling her these things for the last 7 years shows when she was chosen student of the month this month. They had a nice little party for her at her school last week and she wrote a little speach for me that basically said thank you Mom for encouraging me to be the best I can and always being there for me. I love you Mom...her confidence and self esteem was incredible. The tears just streamed down my face. Thats what being a good parent is all about. I wonder how Asshole Abe's little girl feels when she goes to bed at night...not very good if he talks to her the way he bashed her on the fuckin' internet. Trash is all he is and may his cruel and sickening words about his own daughter come back to haunt him and punish him some day. I truly wish the very very worse for you, Abe.

I can't believe the comments I have just read. I firmly believe in "to each his own" but how could someone actually feel that way about their own flesh and blood? I have two sons who are the most important people in my life! I can't imagine them not being around. I have a great respect for anyone who has made the decision not to have children, obviously there is a reason for their decision and it is not my place to ask why. But once you have a child it is your job, whether you wanted them or not, to raise them with respect for themselves and others, and to show them all the love in the world. Get off your high goddamn horse and own up to your responsibilities. Whew! Now I have to go calm down.

I find it shocking that most of you took Abe seriously. He is most likely some moron-teenybopper trying to get a rise out of someone. Looks like he accomplished his mission.

Maybe he is, maybe he aint. Who knows, who cares..but either way, when someone posts something like that, he deserves whatever he gets, no matter the age.

You woman need to get a life yourselves. If having a kid is the only way you can have self-esteem you have a serious emotional problem. Also, how do you know Abe's kid isn't an idiot? Go to any elementary school and you can spot them at an early age. Genetics isn't everything but it is something. What magical age do you have to hit for it to be ok to be critisized and no longer Mommy's Little Angel?

i'm sorry, i can't seem to find anywhere that any "woman" (the plural of that word is "women", by the way) in this thread have stated that "having a kid is the only way you can have self esteem." can you help me out, here? let me also just mention that criticizing (as opposed to critisizing) a child, and referring to her as "dumb as a speed bump" are two entirely different things. sorry the world has gone awry for you. good luck in your life.

Oh I sorry, what gives you the fuckin' right to tell me how to feel about other co-inhabitantce of this shitty little globe. Young or Old why are we told that either deserves my respect or affection.

whatever point you were trying to make just then was lost, due to your complete and total inability to write a coherent sentence. let's move on, shall we?

Look, Callous -- all Agatha's trying to say it that if you had a kid/then maybe you wd understand. Even if yr child had Down's Syndrome to the nth degree/that's still Your Child. And you are obligated to love & nurture that child/regardless of it's shortcomings. Unless you possess some kind of genetic defect yrself. I have that very defect -- which is why I wd never have kids. Becuz I know if they weren't physcially & mentally "normal"/I wdn't want to be bothered w/raising them. But for you to side w/someone who calls his or her kid 'dumb as her mom's diaphragm' shows you have no understanding of what it means to be a parent. For the sake off future generations/I sincerely hope you're sterile. Or at least not a teacher.

YEAH.

RC and Agatha get something else in your lives beyond a bbs on the internet. Do you not realize that your bleeding heart rants are nothing more than idle entertainment for people with real lives. Work on your own lives and lay off the rest of the masses, with your "Dear Abby" bullshit. You two are what is wrong with the internet, giving a forum to idiots! "So let's move on."

Hey Life is more... I gots 2 words for ya: 1) FUCK 2) YOU If you don't like what R.C. and Aggie have to say, move your ass onward out of here! Personally, I respect what both have to say. Sometimes( rarely ) I disagree with them, but geezuz, I love to hear what their opnions are, as I do with everybody else on this site. You can't come in and attack the way you have. That's pure fucking silliness. Pick out points that you disagree with and argue those point with them. You can't say to them, "...lay off the rest of the masses...", because, to me, that means: pack up and get out. No fucking way! They were here before you and they'll be here long after you. If you can't play nice, then you move your sorry ass to Yahoo chat. I'm sure some 12 year old would be willing to talk to another childish SOB like yourself. Remember those 2 words? FUCK YOU

R.C. and Agatha, would you care to respond? Sorry 'bout my little ranting, couldn't stand for that crap.

Hey, I thought I was what was wrong with the Internet. Damn. Disillusioned again.

no, no, ,markus. actually, it's me. i embody all that is wrong with the internet. i just wish i could figure out where to get one of those real lives. all these years of lying to myself...what a sham. time to face the facts. so, life is more, how did you go about getting a real life? do you think you could give me a few pointers?

pinkeye, no need to apologize. there's usually no point in trying to rationalize to folks like that, but thanks for trying.

sweet jesus...is this what it is coming too.. people attacking the likes of R.C. and Pink Eye.. where the fuck have I been... Must come back to destroy evil..and destroy it good.... back with some vengeance of some kind...me. they don't understand..nor do they too Pink Eye...( i am referring to the schmuck up above) i have plenty of work to do...where to start. moi

what about me? they're attacking me, too, goddammit!

*standing in front of Aggie with clenched fists* Back off you stupid-sorry-ass-motherfuckin'-hate-filled-bastards!!! Howzat:)

thanks. i feel like a six year old on the playground.

...what's yahoo chat? And LifeIsMore can KissMyAss -- if we're all such boring net-addicted cretins/why did you take the time to read thru this thread in the 1st place? It utterly slays me when people criticize me for posting stuff -- yet they continue hanging about this place to read my missives. (Notice how those critics never leave their e-mail address?) I'll show up here every damn day & post on every damn board if I want to. That's what Sorabji.com is for -- random exchanges btwn folks who have opinions (or drink recipes) they want to share. And that goes double for Agatha! (And thanks, Pinkeye for gettin' our backs.)

Ok OK! Back to the issue at hand - regretting having children. No one actually addressed this other than Abe, and he did so in a rather unintelligent matter. I think the whole issue of regret would be a good one to deal with. Maybe people here in the US shouldn't ahve reasons to regret having kids, but I bet a lot of starving refugees in Africa are wondering why they brought their kids into such a living hell. As far as the whole "diaphram" remark, well, if y'all wanna ride bareback, there's a little operation called a vasectomy you should check into. I am, at least considering it mightily. My last point: Kensey99, I get the same reaction. Here's what you do: whenever the matter of having kids arise, just hold your hand over your heart and say, "Waht business do I have bringing a child into the world when there are so many here right now who need a good home?" Wouldn't it be great if there was a moratorium on breeding until every last unwanted child was adopted?

I'd vote for that! But you & I wd be the only 2. When women are willing to spend thousands of dollars on fertility drugs &/or artificial insemination/embryo implantation/etc. becuz adopting a kid just isn't good enuf in their minds/ there's not a chance in hell that most folks wd vote for a breeding moratorium. And really -- letting the gov't. determine who can have kids & when wd be a frightening prospect. These are the same schumcks who can't fix a pothole in the road/or prevent contaminated meat from getting to market/or run a decent public school system nation-wide. I don't think we want to give those misfits any more power over our reproducutive rights than they already have.

reminds of that line in that sappy movie from that sappy actor to the other sappy actor.."you have to have a license to hunt, but they'll give any man the right to be a father..">>>??? In any case regarding children..they are beautiful and bountiful in this world..the fact that they are not wanted is an evil that this world finds a way to cope with in some form or another..you think Abe is bad..how bout those damned genicidal maniacs..hatred in extreme form. But's that another topic... me

I blame the parents...

oh and callous, your penis must be *tiny*

Now, Bag -- play nice! Or we'll have to call Nurse Rachet to up yr meds.

one thing i have noticed with adoption is that it is extremely difficult to adopt in this country. you need to be in a certain income bracket, they frown upon gay adoptions, they frown upon single family adoptions, etc etc. not to mention that it is very expensive to adopt a child in the united states. i for one have always thought adopting a child would be rewarding, albeit challenging, but i would be discouraged from adopting because i am not married to cleo's father. what kind of bullshit is that? i understand that the adoption process needs to be well planned, but the exclusionary guidelines for adoption may actually be eliminating many enthusiastic and competent potential parents.

Yeah, exactly. Some of the guidelines might actually work if they had the people to handle the caseload, which of course in this country isn't nearly as important as building prisons. not to sound like a libertarian, but when I said a moratorium, I never mentioned the government. It would have to be a voluntary societal movement. The zero population growth people have the right idea, and I even agreee with some of the tenets of the Voluntary Human Extinction movement.

i think that the zero population growth ideologies are about as extreme as my little brain can handle. i feel like people may be more likely to grasp and act on the zero pop concepts. i'm still too much of an optimist to align myself with the voluntary human extinction-ists. or, maybe i'm too self centered or something. who knows.

zero population growth ideologies are frightening to say the least...be it the solution to whatever, you do it. You perform the atrocity, let's see how well you stand up afterwards..if we can manage ourselves and a few others in our OWN lifetime..then it won't hurt to be an optimist for the future lifetimes to come... yet another topic.. a slingblade kind of mood.

Aggie -- there is at least one group (their name escapes me a present) who handles adoptions for little or no cost (meaning a few huundred $$ to pay for the legal paperwork.). And the foster care system isn't as strict as people think in terms of the financail & marital-status hurdles. (But don't even think abt it if you're a Gay couple.) Esp. when it comes to placing non- -White babies/older kids/& special-needs children. Besides/there are a gazillion childless married couples out there who can't conceive. IMO/the biggest obstacles to adoption are: 1. That fact that too many infertile couples (regardless of race) view adoption as a 2nd-rate choice for bringing a child into their lives -- they'd rather spend a fortune trying to have a child the 'natural' way. I mean, I've never heard any parent say they had a kid becuz they wanted to pass on their genes. It was becuz they were in love & wanted a baby to love & raise. If that's the general rule/why shd it matter where the baby came from? 2. Becuz too many White couples insist on raising a 100% White child/the demand for White babies exceeds the supply. A middle- class White girl knows she's drastically reducing her chances of going to college & attaining a comfortable future if she has a baby in h.s./so she's more likely to have an abortion. Teen parenthood is not nearly as acceptable in White comunities as it is for Blackfolks. Growing up poor tends to create repetitive patterns/just as affluence does. If everyone you know in the projects is the child of a single mother/& almost no one you know has gone to college/which are you more likely to choose -- having a baby/ or an abortion? And a lot of Sisters who got pregnant as teens & did have an abortion are afraid to speak up/becuz a lot of our folks are Pro-Choice at the polls/but regard abortion as wrong personally. (I've always suspected the lack of adoptable White infants is the hidden motive behind the Pro-Life movement. Notice how they never bomb -- or even protest at -- clinics in inner-city areas. You don't see them on the 6:00 news at Planned Parenrhood in the Bronx/picketing & begging Shaniqua & Lupe not to kill their babies. They only pull that shit at clinics in suburban or rural (trans: White) areas. Becuz the right-wingers behind the Pro-Life movement know that thanks to the rise in 3rd World immigration & non-White birth rates/ America's population is getting darker by the second. And that the consequences of that racial shift will change this country forever.) Altho' w/the trend of adopting Asian babies from abroad/& celebrities adopting mixed-race kids/ maybe the trans-racial adoption taboo will begin to change in the future. But I doubt it. Too many Blacks object to it. But it seems screwy to me that so many White couples spend a fortune to go all the way to China to adopt a baby/but turn up their noses at adopting a half-Black American child...

Someone please beat Agatha with her dictionary. Her only reply to things seems to involve spelling critiques.

1) You've got some number disagreement going on there, Observer, so you need to study the grammer some more. But good job looking up all the spelling words! B- 2) For content, you get a D-. You didn't read far enough.

why does this thread keep getting resuscitated by fucking assholes? why, oh why?

fucking assholes need jobs too.

Mr. Han doesn't know what the fuck he's gobbing off about. Let the pedant without sin cast the first sarcastic aspersion. "Reply seems". The grammar's fine, the shades of meaning might be debated.

fucking assholes need jobs too.

"Reply seems" is fine, A.P. That's not what got marked, wise guy. And you missed the real flame bait, sucker.

Oh, and Nate, fuck you, you ass!

a lot of people who complain about how hard it is to adopt a child in the states are actually talking about how hard it is to adopt a healthy white newborn. ok, next point. zero-population-growth proponents do not necessarily want human extinction. 6 billion is a plenty big enough gene pool for the human race to go on indefinitely. there's a big difference between "zero population growth" and "zero population." I'm not sure what the world population growth predictions are (I'm sure they're terrifying). 20 years ago or so, the world population was 4 billion. it is now 6 billion. that is an increase of 50 percent in one generation's time. that is not sustainable. at that rate, the world will be really fucking disgusting really fucking soon. who really wants a whole fuck of a lot more people around? more subdivisions, more traffic. fewer trees, less clean air and water. I don't. but that doesn't mean that I don't want ANY new people around. I just don't want their arrivals to outpace the departures, know what I mean? I'm glad folks are having kids. there's gotta be someone around to change my diapers when I'm 90.