i have so much stuff to do. i'll be advertising for the sale of my leather coat, clock radio and karaoke machine. i'll be organizing and packing. i'll be quitting my job. you see, i have my plan. and since i'm not going to bother to depend on having a place to stay, on having a job, on having a car or a bicycle, i can get out there and DO IT. i've almost $1,000 saved up, and it's all mine. it's not going to school or to clothes or chistmas presents. i am going to use it to find myself. travel around the country with a backpack and a guitar case. so i'll be able to go to sorabjifest, see more than the pacific northwest, find all sorts of topics to write about. wonderful. i'm going to call the doctor and make an eye appointment so i can get my glasses replaced and plenty of new contacts. i'm going to go to the dentist and make sure my teeth are clean. get a physical and make sure my vaccinations are up-to-date. pack up and go. sleeping bag, blanket, writing book and pens, clothes. a couple books, my flute and guitar. and i will survive. i will. my last day at home, i'll tell my parents. i'll tell them what i'm doing, give them a list of contacts and a choice. they can either give me their blessing and a ride to the station and i'll write, or they can go pick up the pontiac the next day and perhaps never see me again. i'm going to do it.

I... I... am now at a loss for words.

One thousand dollars ought to last you about five days on the road. I'd say wait until you have at least three thousand for this kind of trip. I wouldn't want you stuck someplace. With no money.

WHAT?????? this isn't any five-star hotel i'll be staying in. i'll be camping out and trying to work my way and pull my own weight. pffffffft. thanks for the confidence.

I know I'm about to say something that will be vehemently disagreed with by many... That said: you don't have to do it like this. You don't have to make a dramatic gesture of independence. Wandering around the country with no home or companions is liable to get you killed or raped or misused. It makes me think of the guy about 5 years ago who wandered into Alaska with a romantic idea of living off of nature like Jack London and ended up freezing to death in an abandoned bus because he hadn't taken the right equipment with him. Not smart. I think you have an idea that the "normal" way of doing things, viz., quietly moving away from home and getting a job, is boring and too banal to be borne. Not so, not at all. As clichè as it sounds, the quality of your life comes from inside you, not outside in your surroundings. The wandering life might seem attractive, but that's deceptive. That would be putting yourself at so much risk. Like I said, you don't have to make a dramatic gesture of independence to truly live (or Live). Risk doesn't have to be life-threatening to count. Moving to another city is a risk in itself. Finding a way to make a living that suits you is a challenge (and I mean that in a positive way). I don't know, I'm thinking of an analogy with dieting. Crash diets are extreme and dangerous and (rightfully) hard to stick with for very long. Gradually and reasonably modifying your diet is much easier and healthier and is something you can maintain for life. I feel like I'm always giving you advice, so I apologize if I seem pedantic. I think about you a lot, and I would hate it if you changed into someone else on account of some bad experiences. Just be careful.

the thing is, i've been wanting to get out for so long. "i'll get a room when i can afford it." "i'll get a new job after this one bites the dust." i'm sick of all this procrastination, of paying for things i don't want or need, of listening to the voices telling me to get back in line. no way. if it's being a girl that's stopping me, i can cut off my hair, wear a baseball cap backwards, swagger and spit. weirdos like me, but i know a little about how to protect myself. do i seem overly juvenile now?

go pez!

"As clichè as it sounds, the quality of your life comes from inside you, not outside in your surroundings." go tell that to hemmingway. everyone finds quality of life in different places, spidey. some desire big lives, some desire small lives. a life is a collection of experiences. big experiences take risks. i don't think pez is expecting this to be easy. she'll do fine. and if she doesn't, she has a safety net. and either way, she'll learn a hell of a lot. which is her goal.

get yourself a little .20 caliber semi-auto. they make some of them that are no bigger than a deck of cards. keep it loaded and have a blast, er. . .good luck!

Your trip sounds great pez -- I envy you. I won't give you a long list of platitudes, because they've already been mentioned. Just be careful out there. You'll meet a lot of cool people, and a lot of weirdos. Stay away from the latter, and have fun.

...and 10,000 sociopaths will see a 19-year-old woman with stars in her eyes and start licking their chops. That was my point about the risk -- people have this idea that risks need to be BIG and SCARY to be risks. This isn't true. I moved down here without knowing where I was going to live or where I was going to work. That was a Risk. But I had a goal, and a companion, and a good education. I had my equipment. I see a young woman with a fuzzy goal and little equipment taking a Very Big Risk. Klaxons are going off in my head. I'm sorry -- I can't pretend that I think this is a good idea.

i'd agree, spider, it definitly wouldn't be a good idea for you. she won't encounter 10,000 sociopaths. she's an amazon who holds her head high when she walks. she's not prey. and when she comes out the other side, i'd wager she'll be older than you.

Pez's safety net: Her parents Her friends Just about anyone on Sorabji Rhiannon and Nate are both right. Pez, if you're really going to do this, for goodness sake ask for help on the road if you need it. There's enough people on these boards, spread out over the country, that you can probably get help just about anywhere. I'll be really pissed if I hear that you starved to death in Dallas or Birmingham and didn't even call me up for a bowl of soup, or something

Who's braver -- the one on the top step of the ladder who's afraid of heights, or the one on the tightrope with no fear of heights? I'm doing better for myself than I ever expected, and if you want to laugh at that, you can go fuck yourself.

i'm not being critical of you, spider. i'm just saying that everyone leads their own life. i personally don't think moving to a new place without a place to live or a job is a risk. i find the Universe provides for me if i let it. so, are you a weenie or are we just different people?

Yeah... In fact what you should do is get a listing of places Names and Numbers from us here at sorabji, or at least all those that are willing to give them out. It would never hurt, and I know that beyond myself there are lots of people willing to be your saftey net. I'm proud of you for making a decision to get out and do things, stop letting life procrastinate you. Go Pez, you've got my support.

Keep in touch. If you still want to roadtrip it to Sorabjifest, just let me know where to find you. Go forth and kick ass.

I am in COMPLETE agreement with Spider. Pez,hon,this is not a good idea.This is not a safe idea.It may sound romantic and adventuresome,but I don't think that having your first sexual experience,with some semi-toothed socio-path,who has you staked out to 4 pine trees,and inserts various non-anatomical items into your various orifices,repeatedly,and then stores you in his trunk,or in a box in his basement,untill he is ready for you again,can be considered romantic or adventuresome by many. Honey,you haven't even experienced sex yet.Your first experience should be with someone you care deeply for,someone you can always remember fondly,not some creature with no social conscience.There ARE an abundance of Jeffery Dahlmers,and Ted Bundys out there.And they ARE very good at what they do.Thats why there are so many unsolved gruesome murders out there. You're not ready for this.Christ,you telling us that you will go to the dentist,and have you're teeth cleaned,before your adventure,tells me you're not ready.Hemmingway was a man.And,he lived in a very different time.It is not safe out there. This is not the way to experience life. I know this for a fact.I've worked the ER,and had to comfort the poor battered souls of trusting rape victims.Those hollow eyes still haunt me.Something that should be so special,so loving,so giving,so wonderful,between consenting individuals,becomes a horror that is unthinkable,and is unforgettable.Forever. If you must embark on this odessy,at least have checkpoints.You can stay with me,if you want to check out Lousiana.[The worst I'll do,is poke you with my saber].But I will not have you sleeping out in the wilds with God knows what kinds of monsters.My offer is sincere.

Thank you, Czarina. Pez, you can stay with me if you're in the DC area. I promise not to talk about religion. :)

There you go Czarina has a point. Checkpoint Sorabjites, get all the information and go meeting them one by one. (at least it sounds good in theory) Meet a few of them at Sorabjifest, and then go and see the rest and the one's you have already met where they reside. You'll see a lot of the world and its safer then sleeping under bridges and in alleyways. Pez, M'darlin' we just don't want to see you (or not see you for that matter) get hurt or lost or never see you again... The thought scares me, I wouldn't be able to do it, if you can, then you are a bigger person then me besides the obvious height difference.

ok, ok. i know it sounds drastic, but i was planning of making a list of contacts (both sorabjite and otherwise) and checking in all the time. keeping my diary updated and so on. there might be a slight change of plans, because i've been offered a low-rent room here in pdx with people i know. so it might be that i make a few treks every once in a while and keep portland as my base. i'm not expecting this to be easy at all. i just think this is a way to figure things out so i know what i want later in life, to find a focus and the strength from within to go for my dreams. not go into a forest and find a sociopath to enter a slave-like relationship.

you know, if i said women are ill equipped for forays into the big world i'd get slammed. oh wait, i did say that and i did get slammed. you women should think about that. either y'all can handle yourselves or you can't. pez is six feet tall and doesn't have a victim mentality. she'd be fine.

AMEN BROTHER!!!

Tell that to my aunt who was raped in her garage 5 years ago, despite knowing judo, carrying mace, and being 5'10"/175 lbs. Arrogant, know-nothing assholes.

I am an intelligent woman.I would have fallen for Ted Bundy's ploys.The cast on the arm,is a classic.Miss overly friendly[myself]. Guy with a cast on his arm,struggling to get an awkward item into his car,in broad daylight,shit,he probably wouldn't have even had to ask me for help,I probably would have volunteered. "Hey man,you need a hand with that?Here,let me help you." Clunk,wacked over the head,pulled into the car,and driven away to an unimaginable horror.With no one noticing.He fucking tortured his victims,kept them alive quite awhile,most he eventually decapitated.Only one escaped. Nate,I'm not sure many can handle this.Pez has been very sheltered.I lived,[and loved],in Portland,its a great city,a friendly,trust your neighbor kinda place.Most of the world is not like Portland. I am extremely adventuresome,and rather worldly,[because of my adventuresomeness],and can handle myself fairly well,in most situations,but I would not embark on a journey such as Pez described.$1000.00 isn't shit.She doesn't have a trade,yet.Its a big,cold hungry world,with leaches,just waiting for prey to come along.She is not ready,to experience that level of life,its too dangerous.The checkpoint plan is much sounder,than sleeping under bridges,and in the woods. She needs to give her wings a few "test flights",while she's close to home and saftey,and see how well they work,before jumping completely out of the nest.It won't be long,and she'll be ready to fly[safely],on her own. Pez,please realise that I only posted what I did,out of sincere concern.I've grown very fond of you,and would very much like to keep you around,so I can watch you grow.My offer was sincere,I've got a big house,and if you need,you are welcome to stay here. Love, Mom

Hal,you need to choose a side.Your opinion is valid.We are willing to listen to you.You're opinion is important to us.We like you. Quit vacillating.[please] Love, Cz

"Tell that to my aunt who was raped in her garage 5 years ago, despite knowing judo, carrying mace, and being 5'10"/175 lbs. Arrogant, know-nothing assholes." oh yeah, you're so right spider. thanks for clearing that up. so pez should stay away from her garage? or is it that she shouldn't learn judo? or maybe carrying mace is a bad thing? dumbass.

i understand your point of view, czarina. certainly there is risk involved. there is risk of physical harm in just about everything we do. you could get raped in your own garage, for instance. that doesn't mean you shouldn't leave the house. i don't think pez is looking for a nice suburban tract home with a nice, dull job and a nice, dull husband. i think she's more likely to follow in the footsteps of cat than mrs. cleaver. yes, if pez goes out like this she needs to be careful. but that shouldn't stop her from living.

if you are looking to find something, you will good or bad and most people work on not listening to their own instincts. they work, they really do. don't most rapists and such know a bit about their victims? watch them? my friend was terrified of dark parking lots because a girl at her school was attacked by someone who snuck into her car. i just thought that he was specifically after that girl and if she'd avoided parking lots he'd have found her somewhere else.

Hey, look, Nate...If the women here want to piss and moan when men are paternalistic, then turn around and be maternalistic, I say fine... Let 'em. No skin off our ass. In a couple of hundred years there's only going to be women in the world anyway. Let 'em perpetuate the species by cloning and gene splicing for a while and see how they like running the planet.

lesson: don't clean the garage nekkid. sorry. some waye to keep from being a victim: avoid unpopulated areas. don't hitchhike. don't give out unnessessary information and keep most valubles (such as credit cards, passports and other id) hidden on person. layer clothing and keep hair short or up. be aware of your surroundings. keep a whistle around neck. keep an aura of confidence and know where you're going or make a stop in a well-lit, populated area to check a map or make phone calls. don't act like a tourist or keep excessive amounts of valubles (cameras and binos) around neck. have a buddy along. look both ways before crossing the street and go with your gut if your uneasy about anything.

Main Entry: pa·ter·nal·ism Pronunciation: p&-'t&r-n&l-"i-z&m Function: noun Date: 1881 a system under which an authority undertakes to supply needs or regulate conduct of those under its control in matters affecting them as individuals as well as in their relations to authority and to each other

chances are if you do a bit of people watching you'll be able to figure out what type of person you're with and how to handle them. i would say 90% of people who commit violent crimes expect the potential victim to be afraid and to act wholly in fear. by acting cool and calculative, keeping your head you can avoid being harmed for the most part. as long as you can move more than a tiny bit, you've got weapons. elbows, knees, feet, hands, shoulders, head, teeth, fingernails. and if a potential murderer is holding a gun on you, do whatever you can to get away because following directions will just get you killed anyway.

weird. i don't know shit about violent crimes, least of all why people do them.

Main Entry: hea·ther Pronunciation: h&-th&r Function: proper noun Date: unknown a sorabji contributer who posts random definitions for no apparent reason

"If the women here want to piss and moan when men are paternalistic" i guess i was asking if that was what you meant. i actually do a lot of things for no apparent reason, though.

I'd be curious to see the same dictionary's definition of maternalism.

good ol' m-w Main Entry: ma·ter·nal Pronunciation: m&-'t&r-n&l Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French maternel, from Latin maternus, from mater mother -- more at MOTHER Date: 15th century 1 : of, relating to, belonging to, or characteristic of a mother : MOTHERLY 2 a : related through a mother <his maternal aunt> b : inherited or derived from the female parent <maternal genes> - ma·ter·nal·ly /-n&l-E/ adverb

Freakish. www.m-w.com (Merriam Webster) has no definition of "maternalism," yet there is a definition of "paternalism." How sexist!

Main Entry: pa·ter·nal Pronunciation: p&-'t&r-n&l Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paternalis, from Latin paternus paternal, from pater Date: 15th century 1 a : of or relating to a father b : like that of a father <paternal benevolence> 2 : received or inherited from one's male parent 3 : related through one's father <paternal grandfather> - pa·ter·nal·ly /-n&l-E/ adverb apparently there's no such thing as maternalism

freakish anyway, you're the one who chose to use the word, not me. did i do something bad to you or is it just the general topic?

Well, if there's no such thing as "maternalism," then I must revise my above post: "Hey, look, Nate...If the women here want to piss and moan when men are paternalistic, then turn around and be paternalistic, I say fine... Let 'em. No skin off our ass." Nate encourages pez to fulfill her need for adventure. Rhiannon and Czarina encourage pez to fulfill her need for security. Nate and I need to get pissed off when some women on this site do exactly what pissed them off not a few days before.

Nate, my point was that you don't have to have a victim attitude to end up a victim. Czarina, send some of that mother-love over this way, please.

Antigone, context is the key.

i agree that the world is not a safe place. but i still think pez should go, even if it's not a cross country type journey. she is young and she has the chance to follow her instincts, this opportunity doesn't last forever. for the record, i got raped when i was 19. by someone i knew. because i was too trusting. am i any less trusting at this point? i'd say probably not. life's too short to constantly live in fear.

that was just the point you were trying to make, spider.

What was? I don't understand.

"Nate, my point was that you don't have to have a victim attitude to end up a victim." that was the point you were trying to make. the point you made was that women aren't safe anywhere. and if that is the case, then what's the issue?

I said that because it seemed to me that you were saying that because "Pez doesn't have the victim mentality," she won't be a victim. As though all the other women who have been victims had the victim mentality, so it was their fault. Like they set themselves up for it. I took issue with that. Boy, you really can make me mad sometimes, you know? It's interesting how that happens. Good thing I don't know you in real life...what a twisted friendship that would be.

twisted? how boring it would be if all friends did was agree with you. i certainly didn't mean to imply that women are at fault for getting raped. how silly is that. the odds are that nothing bad would happen to pez if she decided to wander the country a bit. crime occurs much less than the media would have you believe. i personally believe that pez has been kissed by god, and nothing will be put in front of her that she can't handle. i understand your mythologies are very different from mine, and you've been taught from birth to fear everything. catholic psych majors. an architype of their own.

What about buddhist psych majors?

kissed by god? god-DESS. man, get with the program. maybe that's why nobody can ever kiss me good enough.... hmmmmm.... acting as a victim can promote crimes in some cases. they want to see your fear. although if they just want to see your blood or something they wouldn't care. it is a question of power views and mental stability. "my father taught me that women are whores and can't be trusted. therefore, i rape and murder them in theatric poses." physically, i can take a lot of shit. i've fallen ten feet and landed on my back on hardwood and been fine. had my contacts knocked out by some asshole who ran me over another time. high-sticked in the neck, hair pulled. the shoe boxes beat me up and i pick myself apart when i'm bored. and mentally i'm fine as long as i can vent. chances are i don't have a clone running around robbing banks and there is nobody sitting outside my bedroom window playing with himself and dreaming of the day he kills me. these things happen in the movies. real life crimes do happen and people have tried to make me a victim before and it just doesn't work that way. it's so not worth it to beat yourself down and let others treat you like shit. if it happens, it probably means you're imagining things. something's not right up here. and if something happens, i'm killed or something it won't matter much to me because i'd be dead. (wait, that was a greeeeat example to throw in the mix) all i want to say is that if i stand by the phone waiting for life to give me a ring, i'll miss a lot. there's a big world out there, and i'd like to figure it out. books can have facts and figures but they don't have the same magic as real life. that's right. magic. use your senses. do you ever step outside and just smell? the roses, the asphalt, grass, gasoline, body odor, ferns, piss. take things as they come and view the world as only a game and there will always be a joke to keep you laughing, i promise you that. what are your views on life? where are you before you're born? after you die? how have you come to this conclusion?

I really can't leave you people alone, can I? Take a buddy Pez. That's the best way to do this. Email us for places to crash ( I know folks who would tak eyou in who aren't sorabjites but trustworthy as all hell [women, too]). Do it in the summer, have it all planned out. Know where all the youth hostels are in the places you won't know anyone. Find out where all the libraries are so you can keep folks posted on your whereabouts. Like Gibby Haynes said: The funny thing about regret is, that it's better to regret something you have done than something you haven't done, and Oh, when you see your mother this weekend, tell her - SATAN!!!! SATAN!!!!!! SATAN!!!!!!

Yeah... Tell her your creepy internet friends told you to say that.

god, goddess. different names for the same genderless concept.

Czarina, I've fucking choosen a side. I'm with nate on this one, she should fucking go for it. She's a big girl, not only in size and stature, but she's growing up, things that I've neglected to do in my time. Yes I've moved out went and got a job, and am living a quasi normal life, but for fucks sake, I keep thinking what she's doing sounds like an adventure, and yes I relize I'm male and if I were the one doing this you guys wouldn't be half as worried and you know I'm right. Pez can handle herself, she's got the basics down, I sugessted getting our phone numbers and the like as to visit us because damnit it adds to the adventure, I know she'll be safe she's a smart girl. And this is something that YEARS from now she'll be able to tell her grandchildren. What do I have to tell my grandchildren, (assuming I'm lucky enough to find a woman that will go through the the torture of mating with me) That their grandfather worked on computers, lived in Missoula montana surrounded by a bunch of hippies and good ole uncle TBone. That he had this fucking insane group of friends who were all over the US who talked daily? That one of these friends went out saw the world on her own when he and her were the same age, and became a famouse writer. Fuck doesn't that seem dull to me.

Pez. Whatever you do. We just want you to be careful. And, safe. If you plan to come to Maryland post it here. I'll let you know of any cheap places to stay that are reasonably safe. Sorry I don't have any place for you to crash. And, if I did the wife wouldn't understand. And, don't bring a loaded gun here. The liberals that run this state want more victems. And, we would have to pool money to bail you out.

If you can't find a buddy to bring, get a good size dog.

Yeah like a malamute. Something that looks like it eats homeless people for breakfast. We have them all over here in Montana, they are big loveable SCARY fucking dogs. They love the people who own them, and if you touch that person you have a dog bigger then you ready to rip your testicals out through your eye sockets.

when i was sixteen years old i left a note for my mother telling her i was going to my grandmothers. actually i had taken $50 a garbage sack full of clothes and headed for arizona. i realized only when i was in oklahoma that i didn't have enough money to make it, so i stopped at a gas station and asked for help. i was turned down. i went to another gas station and the attendants gave me $40 and offered their couch for me to sleep on. so i did. i made it to arizona, and i got myself a hotel room because i was coming down with some sort of a cold. i was laying on the bed watching some jodie foster movie when i suddenly realized that i had been gone for two days and no one knew where i was. after that i knew i could take care of myself. pez. i think it is a wonderful idea. i wish i could do it. if you make your way to new york, you are more than welcome to sleep on my floor or whatever furniture i have by that time.

christ. GO PEZ!!!! if not the whole country, the west coast has buttloads to offer. shelter shelter shelter. you've had enough shelter. you've also had enough input from us. i actually thought of you yesterday. they were replaying the History of Rock & Roll on PBS and I was watching the punk episode. I recalled your tragic statement about not knowing enough female musicians while watching the bit of Patti Smith. Go buy some Patti Smith girl and hit the road. hit the road. if you make it to Southern California....you have a checkpoint. email me for a phone #

"Young and foolish, why is it wrong to be? Young and foolish we haven't long to be Soon enough carefree days, the sunlit days go by Soon enough the bluebird has to fly We were foolish, one day we fell in love Now we wonder what we were thinking of Smiling in the sunlight, laughing in the rain I wish that we were young and foolish again"

well, i'm working on it. since it'll be difficult to do everything immediately, i'm going to do some rearranging and preparation of my lifestyle. to start, i'll be moving soon, to a house in north portland contaning zinesters, musicians and punks. since i can't take a bed, i'll make my own. i'll stop driving and depend on my bike for transportation. my parents have been bugging me about how i can pick up my sister from school every day and i can't do that all the time. i'm busy myself. so she'll get the car because i hate paying for gas and can't afford to buy the car and pay insurance. i'll hold a small garage sale and get rid of at least half my stuff. so many clothes unworn, figurines that deserve a place where'd they be dusted. i could probably get along with just a few t-shirts, jeans and my work clothes. i have like four jackets, of which one is worn maybe one month out of the year. work on cooking skills, learn to preserve and can and so on. find the time to live the life i want and adjust to a less sheltered lifestyle before i go. plain and simple.

Be prepared to not be picky about what you eat.

my roommates will all be vegetarians with vegan tendencies. sometimes i break down and eat shellfish. i did this weekend, anyway. but vegetables are nicer to eat if i can get them. often less expensive too.

True...

Good first step, pez. Rock on.

Do you eat any fish besides shell fish? You may want to consider relaxing your diet to include that for this trip, since once you get away from the big cities and out into the rest of the country, being a vegetarian can be difficult in terms of getting your protein (unless you are Lacto-Ovo, then nevermind)

i am lacto-ovo. i do eat cheese and eggs and a little yogurt (ice cream too) so i can always eat fried eggs and grilled cheese sandwiches. don't drink milk anymore, it tastes nasty. (oh god my sister just finished her back to school shopping (tomorrow is her first day as a junior) and she's come home with a too tight sparkly shirt and a too tight shirt embazoned with madonna's face and "material girl" the shirts would be nicer if they weren't so flashy)

Ahh yes the worlds corrupted youth at work.

honey...if what i show at the fashion convention was any indication of whats to come. girls are dressing sluttier and eating less. Its a saddening trend. everyone has those shirts "bitch" "superstar" "rockstar" in sparkly prints. The funniest one I saw in Vegas was some bloke wearing tee with "Shut Up Bitch" in big bold letters across the top. That made me laugh.

and in school they sign certificates saying they'll save it for marriage. what a mad mad mad mad hypocritical world we live in. i'm happy because i can wear mens pants which are cheaper and more comfortable.

Damn right.

another fucking intelligent post, HAL.

it's harder to dumpster meat, from what i've heard. i got two new pairs of pants on friday. one pair of jeans that only cost me $15.99 and are a little too long (they've a 36" inseam) and a pair of black slacks that are just right. i paid $23.99 for those. oh lucky lucky sale and double discount day! (am awaiting email from joe who is in california right now about the room.... my parents are on alert because i'm cleaning my room... i haven't said anything yet about looking at the room or the ultra-cheap rent or taking sylvie with me... and i will)

Hey Katie.... Here is intelligent posting for you. Fuck you, you ass.

Back off bitch.I like Hal's posts.Perhaps he wasn't emphatic enough for you to understand.So let me put it a little clearer,for you. FUCK YOU,YOU ASS.

Damn right.

ugh.

I just have to let you all know that I caused severe amounts of strange looks to come my way while reading this line. I'm gonna die. My side hurts.

Glad we could help.

CHUPACABRA!

oh, goat-sucking vampire creature, how i've missed you. oh, what odes i could write to this wonderous creature who cleanses our planet from the vile presence of goats.

Wait let me give it a shot... "Fuck you, you ass." Hal's ode to the cupacabra.

I just saw the name Chupacabra under the header, and thought to myself, hmm i havnt heared much from it recently, I wonder what wise words it has to say today. Never fails to dissapoint

note: i'm moving in around a week and a half. so i won't be at sorabji as often.

a classic ode, if ever there was on Hal, it'll go down in history im sure.

it will doubtless be a bearer place without you Pez Good luck with the move

i'll have a happier home, to fill with pleasant memories. this morning, while eating breakfast, my mom said something that almost made me choke. i was planning on driving down to eugene tomorrow to pick up joe and alex. she said "i hope these people don't take you away from home." when my desicion has been made already. how am i going to break it to them that i'm leaving? i was planning on just leaving and not saying anything, but i feel bad not even asking questions. why should i feel bad, anyway? maybe i guess the more appropriate word is different. i'm not used to keeping secrets, although i do keep a good many, and this is a type of secret i've never had before. and i'm so scared that i will hurt someone in the process that i want the whole thing over with. but i'm moving. i guess i'd rather be poor, tired (from both work and the various modes of transportation) and around people i can talk to over being middle-class, well-rested, and eager for my shift to start so i have an excuse to leave the vacumn. so scared.

so, you still havnt told her yet? (your mum) Dont think im trying to stop you from doing something that you clearly really want to do, cos im not, but be very careful how you tell her as it will doubtless break her heart, she may think she has done something wrong (regardless of wether or not she has) sorry, you probably realise this stuff already so i'll shut up. just be careful how and when you tell her Pez

i told them today, during a serious talk about my work/school situation. i think they're a little sad and a little surprised. they want me to stay a child, but i have finding to do elsewhere. to help ease their worries, i'm going to plan to have joe (my landlord) and alex (his fiancee) over for dinner so my parents will know at least two of the people i'll be living with and be a little more comfortable with the situation. it took a lot of guts for me to tell them. i was fully prepared to feed them another line of whatever, but it just felt right to say what i was doing and not have to hide it anymore. i think it helped to tell them and i believe i have their support for the move. i gave my mom a hug before i left to meet them for lunch. it made her feel better.

I'm proud of you. You have no idea how much. You have now taken the biggest step.

you homelife is so god damn foreign to me. I don't see what the big deal is. Adolescents and young adults your age move out all the time. You parents must have been as naive and sheltered as you. I mean did they really believe you'd stay for too much longer? Wait until some beau comes along and marries you? Is Alex a girl or a guy? I think it be so right on if Alex were a guy, but Im thinking Alex must be a girl. That would be too bold."mom, guess who is coming to dinner"

alex is a girl. i guess the people who move away from the family (both past and present, without a reason other than marriage) are viewed as black sheep. my parents are worried that i'll turn out like my aunt echo and marry someone who'll travel all over the world and take me with him. they don't really understand how i feel. it's a familial tradition of little to no support with oversheltering.

im sorry, what exactly is wrong with becoming like aunt echo? ID love for someone tomarry me and take me all over the world. "i guess the people who move away from the family (both past and present, without a reason other than marriage) are viewed as black sheep." who told you this? I've never heard of such a modern more.

wait... i guess it's not true anymore, now that i think of it. i'm trying to come up with excuses for why my parents are doing this, but there is no consistent pattern. i've never been terribly close to my parents, and i think they're just scared that they'll lose me altogether. and being the youngest to move out without school (i'm taking a break) reasons they're afraid i'll end up blue collar. damn yuppies. i really don't know. hopefully i hit it.

"i've never been terribly close to my parents, and i think they're just scared that they'll lose me altogether." How would moving to another city make them lose you? Are they aware of the invention of the telephone? "they're afraid i'll end up blue collar" What's wrong with that?? Ooh, this is making me mad. (Not you, Pez.) I'd like to be Aunt Echo, too.

Nothing is wrong with blue collar. You know, I'm probably stirring some proverbial pot her, but Pez, you're more grown up then your parents are.

I dunno about that hal. pez....you should accept that your parents are misguided, most likely by their own parents. they are in the process of misguiding you. i can see it already by this need that you feel you have to comfort them in your moving out. they don't need any comfort, they are adults. The fact you are having your roomates/landlord over for dinner, is, I suppose harmless, but unnecessary. Your parents fear of loosing is natural up until a point, but when it makes them behave irrational, or say irrational things, which they have its time to move on, not play into it. It is up to you to discern this irrational behavior on their part, and live your life according to your standards, which are still being formed. I recommend you stop listening to their standards start defining your own. I mean christ you are just moving out across town what the hell is the big god damn deal?

they've said the thing about my aunt. but anyway, i don't want to dwell on that so much anymore. i'm moving! i'm moving! whoohoo! (happy dance, trying not to drop my plate of veggies) i'll have the second-largest bedroom in the house, which'll be nice. one door right next to the front door, one door leading to the bathroom and kitchen. i might be moving into a downstairs room later, which'll mean a $35 drop in rent. most of the people in the house play music in one form or another. two people have a clairinet and drums punk jazz band. all in all, it'll be nice for a change of environment. and i won't be paying for gas anymore.

Its quite simple,Patrick.Pez's parents love her.Regardless of their own personel beliefs on life,love is a very strong bond.And not one to be taken lightly.You'll understand this better when you have spawn of your own. I'm proud of you Pez.You did it the adult way.I'm really proud.Our little girl is growing up.

I don't think its that simple czarina. I dont have to have children to understand this.

I still stand by my conviction. Still proud of Pez. Sad we won't hear from her as much though.

patrick, yes you do. you probably think you know all about love -- wait until you have a child.

I know I'm a little out of the current loop. But, can someone please explain what the letters "lol" stand for. I've been able to figure most combinations I've seen on the web. But, this one stumps me.

Little Old Lady.

You have got to be kidding.

im not doubting the unknown, in terms of children consdiering i dont have any. But I know enough to recognize that the pez's parents' behavior is counterproductive.

No seriously thats what LOL means.... Little Old Lady. Unless of course you don't live in my little world, in which case it means Laughing Out Loud.

laugh out loud=lol If I can ever get the spawn out of here,I'm going to move and leave no forwarding address. I do love them,I just wouldn't miss them,except the baby.

IT HAPPENS. so my family is fucked up. i've known that for years. and so i was the one sent to therapy. mucho fun. and now this computer has eaten a cd i'm supposed to review. grrrrrrrr.

Eaten your cd? I hope you supplied condiments. If you mean that you put it in but it won't eject, there's usually a little pinhole on the front of the cd drive somewhere. Push one end of an unfurled paper clip into it and that should open up the drive.

parents love their kids, and when they move out, they miss them. Now i'm seeing Patrick as a teen, eating dinner with his folks, "hey by the way guys, i'm moving out tonight. Pass the salt?" p.s. GO PEZ!

i got it out. i forgot the old mac trick of putting the little cd icon in the trash. grrrr. i am so used to pcs it's not even funny. but anyway, they know i'm moving out, just not WHEN. since talking with them, i might get the use of an old microwave, borrowing a bedspring and mattress, using the ostrichmobile for a few more weeks while i settle. so there are advantages to telling the folks. :D

i'm glad that you told them. could you tell that i thought you should tell them the other day? i didn't want to give you any more unwanted and unneeded advice, and i had faith that you'd figure it out. and then, it didn't hurt that i was sending influential brain waves your way, either.

it was good to see you, agatha. i feel a lot better after saying something.

Rock on, pez. My mom had all kinds of trouble with me moving out, too. But it helped that I had planned on moving out for something like a year, and she knew I was moving to the Missoula campus, etc. My dad seemed to do alright, but I only saw him 10 days out of the month anyway. Pretty normal, really. Different parents deal with it differently. The lack of one's children in the home is a HUGE change. Pez, send me your new mailing address when you've moved in.

oh yeah. i got a call last night, from joe. nobody thinks i'm totally disgusting or anything, so i'm free to move in once the last guy's finished moving out. which may be as early as the 16th. whoohoo! rock on! it's pretty exciting. i'll get to keep my kitty, which absolutely rocks, but she'll have to be a mostly indoor kitty because we'll be living on a freeway on-ramp.

Damn, pez. I just read this entire thread. You sound like me in a few years, unless I make it through college. I totally understand your family, because mine is the same. I love my mom, but she doesn't really understand me, and doesn't want me to grow up. She's pretty controlling. I've been dealing with it for so long, but it is tough. She's sending me to therapy starting next week, because she knows something's wrong Damn, again. You are awesome, moving out on your own. I really respect that. Are you in your new place yet? Hows it working out? Are you happier now? Is there any hope for people like us? (people who are sheltered and wanna break out and experience life without much previous experience) I'm just looking to make it through senior year. then i'll go away to college. but i dont think it will solve everything. i guess i can only hope, though. anyways, your story really inspired me. it also made me feel like i came to the right place. everyone was so supportive of you, which is really great.

Ah, just saw other posts, so ya did move out. i'm really happy for ya. let me know how its going.

i'm not done moving yet. but thursday is the day i jump in the car with my mom and go with her to work, jump out and walk the rest of the way home with my kitty and a backpack. i'm doing laundry today so i can take some clothes with me, some sheets and my mattress pad. gonna assemble the bed today and get a bunch of stuff put away. the bad part is that my parents are going to come over (to the new place) to help with the bed. my mom is super-nitpicky about appearances, so i'm a little worried that she'll be offended because of the mop in the hall, the crumbs and vegetables and half-loaf of bread on the counter, little details like that. i'm not too worried about my dad. he's more aggressive in general, but he understands what i'm going through and he's done it himself. whereas my mom went away to college and got married right after it was all over. *breathe* going away to college is a wonderful opportunity if you can have someone else foot the bill. but you may be forced to follow some certain obbligations because of your parents helping you out.

your parents are gearing up to run your life via satellite it sounds. i never invited my parents to where i lived. not that they werent invited, i just dont think they cared to see where i lived. Except they did visit our crib here in LA. Actually we got pretty tipsy with my parents. They were happy to be here. Though it was hairy looking through our pics and polaroids. Praying a stray dirty one wasnt in the mix somewhere.

yah, my mom wants me to call at least once a week and visit as much as i can (meaning i come to dinner and spend the night.... no way! if they want me to come to dinner, i'd like to be in the position where i can get home to sleep). it's mommy dearest. i don't complain about her as much, but her idea of punishments when i don't do things her way was to cancel my plans--even as l;ately as senior year of hs. i'll call but i'm not going to visit for awhile. i'm taking control of my own life, whether she likes it or not!

yah, senior year and i'm still not getting much rope. i am rather worried about the financial dependency thing. and when i finish school it will be like i owe them something, like a getting a job and being a responsible adult

you don't owe them anything. You didnt have a choice to come into this world. They are bound by law to look after you until 18. Im not saying don't be ungrateful for sacrifices they may have made for you, or actions that went beyond the call of duty as parents. But getting a job "being responsible" is a tool that allows you to further be who you want to be. Do the things you want to do. Life is short already....i know i wanted to get started right away.

financially, i'm talking about them sending me to college. and its not that i have anything against jobs and responsibility, but i dont want to be responsible for being who they want me to be. thought, taken literally they are just paying to make me an educated person, so i suppose they do want me to make my own decisions. but they also want me to make the right ones, which i respect, but what about when the "right" decisions according to them are different from what i want? i am grateful, but i have to live how I know best. I guess i already know that, but it's easier said than done.

at a certain age, they can only HOPE you make the right decisions. You will make mistakes, and you will learn from them. Thats part of the process. Having your parents financial support for college is fantastic...but its not the only way to get there. having your own job, and providing for yourself rules out dependence. Finance is usually the last means of control parents will sometimes yield over their children. You can break it very easily.

SNAP CRACKLE POP... My parents never had any real financial control over me because I never really asked for money... I didn't like doing it, even if it was a dollar or something. I guess I hated rejection or, that I just don't like asking people for things. Make me feel bad or something, so when I got ready to move it was all on my own or nothing. And here I am 5 hours away, and still alive.

thanks hal. i guess you're one of the best authorities on that, being a living example. tomorrow i'm going to move the last of my "personal" stuff, meaning most of my toiletries, hangers, pez dispensers and so on. the last night i'm only going to have enough in the house to fill a backpack. my mom works only 2, 2 and 1/2 miles from the house, so i'm going to put sylvie in her box and take her with me and my backpack in the van. i'm really looking forward to it. that same day i'll get my bike pass for tri-met and take some things downtown for the iprc yard sale. friday i'll mostly vege and go to a benefit show in the evening.

you guys make me realize how dependant i am...but i just have trouble breaking away because each time i do it hurts them, and me. sometimes i'm really stupid. why shouldn't i just be like everyone else? yuppies. i live in a town full of them, and it would make life easier to just be one. grrr... well, maybe it wouldn't really be that easy. easy for people around me, but not for me. sorry, this is getting off topic. anyways, i'm happy for you pez. really happy.

You can go to college without your parrents paying for it. You just cann't go away to college. To do it you need a full time job. Then take one or two classes at night. Get some education in a field you are interested in. Then find a job in that field. Especially with a company that will pay for you to take more courses in your field. Community Colleges are great for this. You get an excellent education. And, at the end of your course work you have a certificate or AA degree. Something that will help you get better jobs. And, actual skills to use in your job. Four year schools only give you a piece of paper with BS on it. Of course for some reason employers still love to see those letters. I'm glad the majority of my education came from a place where the instructors taught me something. Rather that a four year institution where the Professors said "It is not my job to teach you."

you'll get there ophelia. wait until you're 18, then you can legally lease an apartment and sell beer. in oregon anyway. tonight is my last night at "home". i'm doing laundry before bed.

pez, don't stop writing and sending those funny pictures. What about a family portrait? I left home when 15, returned when 16 and left again when nearly 19, did not work full time and spent ten full years as a full time student and only paid for one of those years. Rest on scholarship. I never stopped writing even though my father thought i was trying to sell poultry magazines to health food stores when it was poetry I peddling to literary magazines. Haven't stopped to look back. I'm quitting posting and writing the damn report and going to bed.

no, can't stop. when words want to come out, to drip from my head onto the page, i must write or take asprin. i love the new house, the housemates. a bit ragtag and disjointed, but everything fits in a way likeable. joe and al-x run their own buisiness from home. jeremy is always around with his dog. joel the clairinet playing graduate student studying anthropology. allison who plays a multitude of instruments without the aid of sheet music. (she was playing her banjo last night so i got out my jaw harp and played along). eric i don't know very well yet, but there are so many new faces it doesn't matter too much. i like it here, even if my first dream has been a nightmare.

what kind of business, pez? i used to run a business out of my home back in college.

a distro. records, cds, zines, books, tshirts, buttons, stickers. microcosm

HA!

Selling pot?

Nate was so naughty.

naughty, maybe, but i got out of college without any student loans.

i have no student loans yet. or scholarships. i feel naughty. no classes this term. happy pez homebody.

Get to work on your education soon. You don't want to spend the rest of your life as a retail peon. The wages are pitiful. The benefits next to zip. And, you can imagine just what your retirement will be.

i have medical and dental. 50% discount on monthly tri-met passes. it will suffice for now.

My health insurance plan is being dropped by my employer, so I have to choose a new one. Somebody hold me. This makes my head swim.

insurance is paid for by kroger, but it's because of the union that i've got it. so i don't think that's so bad.

Don't go with an HMO!!! I've heard to many horror stories first and second hand about them.

I don't know...I had an HMO until I was 21, and I (my family, really) was happy. My and my dad's surgeries were completely covered, referrals were no sweat, prescriptions were $10, $2 per doctor's visit, etc. I don't remember my dad complaining (and I know I'd have to hear it if he were unhappy). I currently have a POS plan, but I've never used it so I don't know if it's good or not. That's what's being dropped. I think my choices now are between 3 HMOs and a PPO. What's a PPO?

HMOs are good for someone young, with little to no health problems. Such as my wife and I. A PPO is, as I understand it, an expansion of an HMO. You don't go to one facility, you have more freedom in choosing your doctor. But its a little more expensive. For someone like Pez, an HMO would be just fine I think. Shes young, healthy, and probably wouldnt need anything more than the annuals and occasional sickness. As I get older, Im more apt to consider another plan, but Ive had nothing but fine service from Kaiser, what little ive had to use them.

(in my experience.) in a PPO you pick from a (usually large) list of covered doctors. you can see any one at any time. my co-pay is $10 per visit. last job it was $5. a primary care physician must refer you to specialists, but it's the same deal (pick one from the list, pay the co-pay.) my prescriptions are $5. i think the plusses over an HMO are better control over your care. you can pick a doctor and stay with that same doctor. theoretically, an HMO would provide better care overall ? having all your information in one place, with a focus on preventative medicine.

i'm on kaiser, they're the best plan i've been on since i was born. there is a clinic within 2 miles of home, too. $5 per visit. kaiser sent me to have my eyes checked all those times (and discovered my torn retina), had me on orthodics when i was four, helped me with anger management and saved my lil sis's life when she swallowed half a bottle of iron pills. the other plans weren't so good. with sis broke her finger, she had to see our primary doc before she could go to a specialist to tell her that it was broken. that's just stupid. you could tell that it was broken frm looking at it, and i'm no doctor.

A PPO is a Preferred Provider Organization. You have more control over your health care. You don't need referals all the time to see a specialist. It depends on the plan. Coverages very wildly. Even within the same company. Take your time in making your choice. My wife has a friend who was in an HMO. (first person account to us) Her primary care physisian refused to authorize any testing of a lump she found on her neck. She now has inoperable cancer. This is in addition to other major medical problems. You never know about your health. It is the most important thing you have. And, it can be taken from you suddenly and unexpectedly. So choose your health plan carefully. Once you get sick you may be stuck. And, if not changing plans can be expensive. Also, your new plan may not cover preexisting conditions.

but nate do they take more from your check per month for PPOs than HMOs. I know here they do. Its not THAT much more. My visits and scripts are $5 as well. Being a prominent gay company in public view (i.e. advocates of gay rights, especially when it comes to terminally ill gays and lesbians, HIV) they have some really really good plans. We can take an HMO, a PPO or the old-fashioned, pick your doctor any doctor, pay a deductable. Kaiser has my "preventative" medicine all worked out (i.e. valium). keeps me out of the psych ward.

i pay about $18/mo for ppo. according to our parent company's HR web page, i should be paying $36 and kaiser would be $31. my guess is that kaiser people here pay $15-16. it takes me 45 minutes to get to a kaiser from my home. a ppo doctor is about a mile down the road from me.

Kaiser's one of my choices, and the nearest clinic is 10-15 min. away. Pretty good. My HMO choices both (2) cost $13.25/mo. The PPO would cost $6.30 for "basic" and $17.85 for "enhanced." I don't know what the difference between the two is yet, but I've got the literature in front of me. I currently don't have any major health problems, but you never know what will happen.

kaiser is $5 copay, the other plan is a $250 deductible. the closest clinic to home is kaiser. i don't pay for health insurance. one thing about the fred meyer union, is that if you've worked for 6 months and average over 80 hours per month, you've got health insurance. bam. nothing deducted from you paycheck. the company pays for it.

BCBS.(Blue Cross Blue Shield.) Their alright for some stuff, but not the small stuff... You get a surgery and you'll be fine, you get a cold and you'll be paying out the ass. I liked the old one we were on before I moved away, it was called New West Health Plan, we got it because my mom and dad worked for the Hospital. It was an HMO, not bad and the co-pay's were nice too.

I'd rather swett the small stuff. And, know the big things were covered.

I hate Blue Shield with a passion. And I would choose a PPO over an HMO anyday.

I was on an HMO when I had Heather,my doctor didn't bother to show up and in fact had sent me home from the hospital once already that day.Then the stupid fucker had the gall to call me when I was in the recovery room and I could tell he was at a bar.

Blue Cross Blue Shield is shit. The bastards are on a regular basis giving my father a hard time. His meds (which he needs to live) are constantly being charged to him, then there's a hassle to fix it in which you get the man/woman on the line that says "I don't know," "I can't do anything about it," or "what was your name and account number again?" seven million times. Then, when you do get it fixed, you end up getting a mystery bill which has no real connection to you whatsoever, but still requires you to call them again, wait on hold listening to crappy music, and talk to the same man/woman to ask what the hell this little piece of paper means.

I never said they were good, but for someone of the early 20's college age, they aren't bad... Because we rarely need anythiung

But it's pointless to pay a bunch of money to deal with the hassle of blue cross/blue shield. Every time I go to get an inhaler, I have to call the goddamn blue shield people so that I don't have to fork over major moola at the counter. The drugstore here told me they don't like blue shield because they don't usually pay claims... They suxor.

school was blue cross. the good part was that i could walk in any old day and never pay a thing. unless i wanted to fill a prescription- woo doggie some shit is expensive, and they don't buy it back if it turns out that you're allergic to it.

i have BCBS with an alternative prescription plan. i've never had a problem. i had Aetna before. Aetna was great.

I have Blue Shield PPO via my husband's job. Originally we had Blue Shield HMO and when my son was born we didn't pay a dime, it was 100% covered by the insurance. The hospital bill for his birth was over $10,000. I paid a $10 co-pay for the first visit to my OB/GYN and that was it for the entire 10 months during my pregnancy. It was great. Now that we have a PPO, my birth control is no longer cover. It is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. They'd rather pay $10,000 a year for me to keep having kids, than pay $20 a month to put me on birth control? What a bunch of crap.

Your birth control probably costs a lot more than $20 a month. I'm always appalled whenever I look at the total cost of my medications. No wonder my drug company stocks a doing well - the miniscule shares I have.

Yeah, why is it that Blue Shield won't pay for birth control, but they will pay for viagra? fyi, watcher, my bc costs $20 a month.

Is that the total cost or a nagotiated cost? I really have no idea. I just know all the medications my wife and I take cost us a fortune. Even with insurance. My wife's Nurologist wants her to think about Beta Seron for her MS. That would cost 10 thousand dollars year. Even with insurance, if it is covered, it would cost over a thousand a year. For just one medicine. And, no guarenty that it would be effective.

When I was on Aetna HMO, my birth control was $10 month. Watcher, what else is your wife doing for her MS? What are her symptoms like, if I may ask? My doctors thought I might have MS when I developed trigeminal neuralgia and occasional visual problems, but I think it's been ruled out.

*GASP* you take birth control spider???????

I did for a year. It regulated my irregular menstrual cycle. The side effects were a raging libido (which I controlled) and a raging temper (which I could not control), so I went off it.

I just sat through an AFLAC presentation. I think I may go for it, because I like the wellness benefit, which gives you money for going in for check-ups. Plus now we have a bunch of ducks in the office saying "AFLAC!!!"

well....i really inquiring as to the conflict with your religion. were you able to justify it just as you appeared to have done here? meaning, you didnt take it to control birth per se, but rather get your cycle in order? birth control, in most women ive talked to, pretty much wiped out their cycle all together.

Dude. Birth control is frowned upon only when it is used as a contraceptive. There's nothing wrong with using it for health reasons. It wipes out your cycle if you take the potent pills consistently. Most b.c. packages come with 3-5 placebo pills, and when you take them you get your cycle.

Spider, My wife started with vision problems. Soon followed by balance problems. Then a buzzy feeling in her legs. first one then the other. It's a real fun disease. At least we've had the oppertunity to meet most of the members of the local Volunteer Fire company. She's a rather large lady. And, if she falls, which she has on ocassion, I can't pick her up. Not with the back problems I've had lately. I don't think she is even embarassed about needing them any more.

Only two types of birth control really end your cycle: depo-provera and norplant. The pills can fuck with your cycle, but they don't usually end it, which is why a lot of women take pills--to regulate their cycles. It's a big problem with depo, because one sometimes wonders about being pregnant...