So, here's the situation: I hired this woman for our crew from Georgia, Caroline. She is perhaps an inch taller than me, short, chin-length brown hair, blue eyes, and a great smile. Somewhat quiet. Very nice person with a great taste in music. So, I'm finding myself in the dilemma where I am becoming more and more attracted to this lady while in the position of also being her employer. This is really occupying a lot of my thoughts lately. Furthermore, my crew chiefs seem to think I have a shot (as one puts it, "She pays attention when you talk - That's a good sign"). So, how do I try to set up a date, while still maintaining any semblance of ethics (as in, never date anyone who works for you)? She mentioned today that she hasn't gone out to eat in Chillicothe yet (where we are staying), so I am going to try and track down a really good restaurant and invite her out to dinner. One thought I had was to make a pretext of wanting to know more about her work experience, as she is on our short list for future employment. But, how transparent is that? How transparent am I for that matter? God, I am so bad at this, I'm like a gearbox in neutral with nothing to drive because I don't know where to go with this. I mean, if we can't hire on more people for full time work (which we need to do), then in 5 weeks or even less she goes away to god knows where the next job is, right? This isn't an "I want to get laid" thing ( I mean, sure, I want to get laid, but at this point in my life there is a lot more I want from a woman's company, ya know?), I could just ignore it if it was and go on with my life. The problem is that this woman is exactly my type as far as I'm concerned. It's one of those things when you can look at someone and say, "Yeah, i wouldn't mind a roll inthe hay with her" and then you can say "Wow - that's someone I would really like to have around for a long time" So, I'm not sure what sort of advice I need, but any would be appreciated. Am I just setting myself up for another disappointment? Probably. Is this a big risk affecting my work. Probably, too. Is my loneliness adversely affecting my judgement? Am I boring anyone yet with all this? Christ I'm confused. Was that interesting, Cat? I think I'm boring people with my romantic woes.

No Sem, I find it interesting to read, but if I remember correctly from Nate's SorabjiFest pics, you’re one tall mofo. So she is a rare breed and right up there in the clouds with you. (No direct offense meant, this is just coming from a short person, who ends up dating tall women for some reason or another.) No, your right ethically this is wrong. BUT!!! Remember man, be out for you, she may be part time, she may want to go full. But either way, be out for you. Ok look at it this way, take her out to dinner, have fun talk to her, be interested in her, find out if she’s worth it. Because if you don’t do that, you’ll never really know and keep asking yourself the ethics question. Rules are made to be broken, but only under the right circumstances. You are an intelligent, well-educated man, who loves his job. The only thing that you don’t have going for you is a woman who you care about and cares about you in return. She may be it, does she fall into the categories of someone who you would like to spend an exorbant amount of time with, who you could enjoy being around continuously??? If so then try man, at least you can say that you did that even if it fails (WHICH I’M NOT SAYING IT WILL, FUCK I HOPE IT WORKS FOR YOU SEM.) The only caution I would have in this area, is watch for the SH shit… Sexual Harassment has become some sort of fucking fad as of late… Now Sem you know me better then to assume that I would accuse you of being someone who would sexually harass this woman, because I don’t want to imply that. But be on your toes, keep what you say on your mind. Business and pleasure are old friends, and they intermingle a lot, but remember never MIX Business with pleasure. I.e.: make her a part of your personal life, but keep a professional atmosphere when working.

I think you have Sem mixed up with Antigone, Sem you think too much,ask her out to dinner and be yourself,it'll work out.

I say go for the date. But, not sex. Show her you have class. Enjoy some personal fantasies later. Just make sure she knows "you want to get to know her". And, you respect her personally and professionally. Then there should be no question of sexual harrasment. Especially if she makes the first move. You should go for it. Just protect yourself.

yeah.....i tend to agree with them. go for it. thats the good thing about freelance type work. in 5 weeks you may or may not be her employer...no? This is the delicate balance angry sam has to deal with. He turned 40 recently...obviously he isnt too thrilled. But for the last two weeks he has been in Boston filming episodes of "Elimidate" ( a torturous job for him, producing this show as there are nothing but hot young girls and even hotter young guys to reflect upon himself with). He met this woman...and as the producer...well....people on the set see him, with the headphones, with the 5 grand in cash in his pocket for expenses, ordering all the PA's around...in otherwords, the man with the power. He gets girls that ordinarily would not pay too much attention to him otherwise wanting to sleep with him simply to advance their career. So he is often in the dilemma of "do i fuck this girl and possibly pay the price on set tomorrow or do ignore her" When he was recently working in Vegas every girl he met was a stripper, a former stripper, an aspiring stripper, a stripper in denial etc etc so he avoided them like the plague. Apparently in Boston he met this hot soundgirl (a rarity in sound production) irish, blazing green eyes, spoke with her crew in Gaelic and had indepth knowledge of experimental filmmaking, which is what he studied. SWOON for Sam. Anyway....he did it and was a goobly ramblin man for the better. He went for it. Sem, go for it otherwise you'll be kicking yourself in the ass. Id say yeah, lay off any romantic inklings...jsut see about spending a lot of time together under the guise of coworkers at first and see if you can get any vibes of mutual interest.

Probably am. Oh well, in either case I think Sem got the point.

ask her on a date, and be funny and cute like you already are. pieceacake.

absolutely do not date anyone who works for you. not if you like your job.

that rule only applies to office rats like nate. if your job is digging around in fields, just don't screw in the bushes

it has more to do with the ability to objectively carry out your job than the shine on your shoes, i think. can you objectively manage during the day and pound the pink by night? what if the relationship goes sour? not to mention how she sees you. it's not a natural way to enter a relationship. she has (perceived) social responsibilites to you as her manager. you can't gauge how she acts towards you in the same way as if you weren't her manager. it's all around trouble, i think.

mr. romance has a point. i take back what i said. screw in the bushes, sem.

Sem, your loneliness is adversely affecting your judgment. However, that doesn't mean you can't hang around her in a friend-like way, and enjoy her company. She hasn't been out to eat yet? Take her out for lunch instead of dinner. If you get to know her better, *she* might start sending *you* signals. Unless it would cause you pain to be around her. In that case, be aloof. Also, not to be negative, but she might be paying attention to you because you're her boss and all. You could always fire her and then date her. Or maybe not.

Ok first the "fire her, and then date her thing" is a very bad idea, although I feel as though I'm not the only one who looks at it this way. Nate has a point, and yes your judgement may be clouded Sem. But as I see it, trying can't hurt. Maybe dinner is too much, try the lunch deal, if that works out ok then offer to take her to dinner. Take it slow and easy. I finally went back and checked out the sorabjifest pics, and yes I know I was fucking stoned or something that must have been affecting my memory because I knew Antigone was the tall one and sem was the strange one in the pics with the beer. Funny enough Sem, your not a bad looking guy and, if you play your cards right man, she may be perfect for you. Take it slow, have some lunch, and be interested.

yeah, and make sure you give her a raise if she sucks your cock.

Hal, you know I was kidding, right?

nate: she's a temp. that's the difference here. also note, i did not say to fuck her. that's a different realm, to be determined much later on in the scheme of things.

agatha you have to use your nate dialectizer. date = sex with sir nate

Or at least giving him head. No, if Sem gets some from this, cool, if not and it turns into a relationship he'll get some eventually and it hopefully will be worth it, if not then he'll find someone else, Sem is a capable person, I have faith in the fact he'll find someone. Hell he's doing better then I am, right now I'm stuck between a rock and a hardplace, and neither one of them is getting any further away, they just seem to keep getting closer.

No, no, no Sem. I'm always interested in your love life. This girl does sound perfect for you. The majority of people meet their partner at work, you know. Ask her out, but do it honestly and not on an excuse to talk about work. Lunch is also a nice first step. If things go well between you, you should be able to talk openly about the issue and work out how you'll handle it..together. Just do it, mate.

Make like a nike and just do it. dammit. life is too short to piss away on ethical fucken questions.

and if she declines, simply don't hire her. or arrange for a "freak accident". that way, you won't have to look at the bitch all the time.

foflmao!!!!!

Nate is unequivocally correct on this. Big mistake. Nothing but problems. Not worth the headache.

SHIT.

What did you do... Or is it the fact that we are unanimous in our inability to agree.

Nah, Nate's just a boy. Ignore him. Gazillions of people meet their partner at work. It's natural, because you already have something in common. So long as you're both sensible, reasonable people..it will be cool.

agreed. sem i think you could satisfy some curiosity by just going out to lunch and maybe for drinks after work one night...even invite others along so it wont look suspect. feel her out....see what your senses tell you. the way i see it, you have just as good a chance of it working out eitherway. might as well toss the dice.

so...? sem, what did you do? there is always a story behind your "SHIT".

everyone is reasonable when you start dating. it isn't until things start getting fucked up that you realize how unreasonable the other person is. is she an independant temp or an agency temp? if she's an agency temp, there's more potential for trouble. you screw that one up and the agency hears about it and they'll definitely take you down legal blvd. well, if they can make any money off it, anyway.

everyone is reasonable when you start dating. it isn't until things start getting fucked up that you realize how unreasonable the other person is. is she an independant temp or an agency temp? if she's an agency temp, there's more potential for trouble. you screw that one up and the agency hears about it and they'll definitely take you down legal blvd. well, if they can make any money off it, anyway.

Fucko

Well, that got nipped in the bud, but I suppose it's for the best. I am becoming more and more convinced that all my attempts at romance are a grand exercise in futility, and I should just give up and grow a beard and read too many archaeology articles and books, and hope that helps. It would sure be nice for there to be someone to come home too, though.

What happened??? I can only assume bad things. Dude, I'll figure something out, (I don't know why I said that but hey I've been eating nothing but ramen for a week now and I think its affecting my judgement.) we'll get everything fixed, and a little something setup and you'll be fine... I'm going to shut up now, and give up talking for the rest of the day.

I'm sorry Sem.But when you least expect it,that special person will come into your life. Just hang on.I'll happen,I'm sure :)

The problem seems to be not that you work together, its that you are her superior. Arrange for her to be in someone else's department. Or just "get to know her" by all the innocent means, and when the five weeks are up, put it in high gear. But what do I know. I'm still waiting for the girl down the hall to come back from Thanksgiving break with a better idea on how far down the can her relationship with her old boyfriend is. LS

Your going to be waiting a LOOOONG Time LS... A very LOOOOOONG TIME.

oooops........typo correction: That was supposed to read....."It'll happen,I'm sure :)" Hal,if you were closer,I'd invite you for Thanksgiving,so you wouldn't have to eat the non-traditional cheese Thanksgiving Dinner. LS.....was that the public masticator you told us about?And she is your neighbor?I'm glad you're back.

Hal, yea, I probably am going to wait a long time. It's what I do. I wait. I wait until it is too late and then my chances are usually blown. Czarina, no, this is someone else. This one knows her relatinship is canned, but both are still clinging on to something. I have a hard time giving her any advice. It's a conflict of interest. LS

Sam, get the message dude. Women dont like whining self pitying loners. You have to make them interested in you or buy their affections. Another good one is to find out about their stupid hobbies or dumb family and pretend you are soooo interested in.... whatever dumbass crap they like. It always works! Another one is to get a little doggie with big eyes and go to the park on sundays. Betcha find some lonely dumb divorcee who will take you under her (or his) wing. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and learn how to manipulate womens feelings.

Yea! Learn how to manipulate feelings! That's the secret to getting what you want. LS

That will assure you a long and rewarding relationship,with that special someone,that you have absolutely nothing in common with. It don't get much better than that.

Well, I suppose the common thing is good, but if it is already a rewarding relationship, then it doesn't matter what you have in common. LS

fuck off milhouse. fuck. i have a beard.

LS........please email me.I promise,NO pornography,nothing bad.But a message.Its nice.Thats all.

I think you should e-mail Czarina LS. I'm sure she'll have something very nice to say to you.

sem, give us updates! anyway, if this is still possible, and if you have the balls, why not just state your intentions. Like so: "Shelia, i must confess something to you. I've been wanting to ask you out for a while now, but i'm afraid of this getting in the way of our working relationship. Either way, you're a great person and i'd really like to get to know you better on whatever level possible. How do you feel about co-workers dating?" See? like that. phrase it however you want. of course that could causee further tension in her knowing of your interest but FUCK IT! it's not my problem! hee hee !! Sad story: A friend of mine, a bartender, had always had a thing for one of the beer reps that worked with her bar. They always had a great time when he came in to give out promotional items and always gave her extra free stuff and hung out there for hours just to talk to her. Anyway, after years of this, they decided to start dating. Beer reps aren't allowed to date bartenders, it's seen as a conflict of interest, so they kept it VERY secret. (as if dating a beer rep could make someone sell more of that kind of beer?) And my friend, who will die alone with her cats and we all know it, was having the best relationship of her sordid love live. After about a month she didn't here from him for a week or so, and the next week a new beer rep came in when he was supposed to. Turns out the guy died in a car wreck and had already been buried, and the girl wasn't told because their dating was so dangerous to both their jobs that he didn't even tell his family about her. So she didn't find out until the new rep came in, 2 weeks later. She hasn't dated anyone since.

Done and done. LS

Ouch wisper tahts a harsh story.... Ick don't like things like that.

so, no dice on the local woman front... I did get a reply to my nerve ad, and respodned, and then suddenly realized that one of YOU is probably serendipitywaxx...right? Although I am unaware that any of you currently reside in San Fran.

Sem do you really believe we would play with you like that?

Well, it's just that everytime i do something like nerve, the only respones i get are from friends.... I mean, the whole respone was "Go on, I dare you to respond to this!" and that was it. And the member profile was next to useless (no one is one foot tall, for example, and there was no picture or personal information, and in fact the headline for the ad was Please Email my beautiful friend)

don't you think your fellow sorabjites would be far more creative?

Fuck you, you ass. Sem, you'll find someone, your better looking then I. Thats not to say that I do well, I'm just saying I'm on the threshold, to young to get the girls who think I'm good looking, because they are all like 4-5 years older then me, and when they think I'm cute once they find out how old I am they won't speak to me. And not old enough for people roughly my age to even care. I'm in limbo my friend. You however are of a good age, and are a good looking man. Hold on, if you will it they will come.

Let's just say that experience must make me agnostic on that. I've been in limbo from day one. There's just not enough single mutant females out there.

If there wasn't a reference to your ass in the reply, you can almost bet it wasn't a Sorabjite.

You Are so right. i thank the deity that you exist, cat. realy. I would expose more except bfor the hiccuping, so i sign out now

Drunk on a wednesday night, sem? Did you go to church?

Durn. I was hoping you would expose more, Sem. I'm always up for some exposure. I think I'll get drunk tonight too, just to keep you company. Actually if I was organised and could find your number, I'd call you for a nice bodily functions chat.

We got rained out again so I went to happy hour at the motel bar with the crew and got royally lit. Got rained out today as well, but I don't plan on the same remedy.

Yeah this time just go back to the room and smoke a bowl with the crew... Tomorrow... Hookers.

next week... the world

I don't know if I'd go that far, maybe next month the world... Next week they'll upgrade from hookers to call girls... The ones with more class that cost more.

Oh okay. alright. Prehaps the world was too much of a goal. Goooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalll. Sorry that word always reminds me of English Football. Goooooalllll. hehe. ooh ahh cantana. It's at times of insane-ness like this (and yes these are the sorts of things I would yell at work) that I realise why I don't have a boyfriend. I'm far to much fun. And not at all crazy.

And Blackjack. Don't forget blackjack. Never forget blackjack.

Yeah, ya need a blackjack to slug the hoe if she tries to run out on ya!

god damn it. Just when I thought she wasn't interested, I'm at the hotel picking up some documents and there she is, walking to the laundry room and I am struck by how truly beautiful she is, and she comes over and we exchange pleasantries and she smiles and walks on, then she looks over her shoulder at me and smiles again! DAMN! Just when I thought I could deal with this. SO, yeah, There it is. What complicates it even more is that the boss is incorporating a "no dating the crew rule" because one of our crew chiefs is screwing one of the crew and it's really affecting his work. If I wait til after the project to try and get involved with her, well, then she's going back to Georgia. Story of my life. I only meet women who are or who might be attracted to me at times when I can't do anything about it. I don't need this on top of all the other work stress. It's driving me up the wall.

Quit your job. LS

Yeah thats an applicable soulution... Remember LS, Business and Pleasure... Never sacrifice one for the other... Don't worry Sem, just keep rolling.

By keep rolling, he meant "Roll up a fat one and smoke it" everyday. Business and Pleasure. Become a hooker and mix the two! LS

Just don't tell your boss. Unless it would affect your work. Or something.

All will be... fuck it, I give up...

You know, I probably could keep it under the radar... well, maybe. I have so much pu ton me that taking personal time almost would raise the red flag that I had something going on. Anyway, I talked to mavis about it last night and she basically told me that all the signs said that she was attracted to me. So I was going to talk to her tonight int he bar but of course no one at all showed up, yeesh.

No! No! Don't quit your job.I see opportunist potential here. This is good,this could work. Let me ask one question.What is it that adds excitement to a relationship? The sneaking around and being furtive. Secret trysts,stolen kisses,erotic eye contact,knowing you're both thinking alike when you are out in public,and can't acknowledge your relationship. You'll be able to snicker at your own cleverness.And laugh because you've fooled everyone. This can spice up a relationship.It adds a new level of erotiscm. Don't tell ANYBODY at work,and make sure to apply the correct amout of sneakyness,when meeting for your tryst's.

that is such a woman's perspective. i don't think that's nearly as exciting for men as it is for women. of course, i'm romantically disabled so what do i know about such things.

Of course it's as exciting for men as it is for women. What could be more fun than doing something you're not supposed to,and getting away with it? Everybody like to be furtive,well,cause it's just fun.

bo-o-o-o-o-oring

I agree with Dave, and I've never had a serious relationship. Kinda frightening.

i disagree with dave, spider, and nate. i know nate hasn't said anything, but i just don't.

i think czarina is about five paces ahead of sem in any of this. it is a Danielle Steel-esq, Cosmo-like chick perspective czarina....

I'm not saying that I think everyone should have furtive/sneaky relationships.That would be absurd. What I am saying,is,that,under the circumstances,that being that Sem is not supossed to date a co-worker,the only way he could do and remain employed,is to be sneaky about it.And,that that very sneakyness in itself,would add an element of excitement to the relationship.

Do it, sem. Seize the day.

Do it in the supply closet. Just don't get close to the spare electric staplers. LS

I'm going to go find a bar and wait sem... I'll be drinking till you decide to show up, woman or no woman... I don't care. But there will be drink sitting next to me waiting for you...

Sem, Sem, Sem..(sigh) Stop bloody jumping ahead of yourself. What you need to do is ask this girl out to lunch. Lunch is harmless and nice and perfectly ok. Find out first if she digs (archaeology pun, get it?) you. Then worry about what happens from there...together. Now get out there and ask her to lunch. Don't use an excuse. Just say "Hey what are you doing Saturday for lunch? Wanna go to .......?" I'm going to have to spank you soon.

Yeah, and don't go and spoil it all by saying something stupid like "I love you" or "I want to stick my finger up your ass" or "I'm a big believer in oral sex on first dates. How 'bout you?"

Oh you are smooooove Dougie. ;)

Well,now,lets just wait a minuet here.He IS a self professed finger sticker.Since he's already got experience in that area,I think it would be okay for him to mention it.

stick it to her sem..STICK IT TO HER!!!!

'Tis the season for seizin'! Seize if you please.

oh shit. i've got tears from laughing so hard.

Fuck I need a drink... Thank god the company christmas dinner is tonight... I'm damn well expecting an open bar and I will use it to its fullest extent... Boss be fucking damned.... I need a good stiff drink, a bowl, a full pack of smokes, and some head.... Probably get the drink and the smokes thats about it.

Antigone, you've been a very bad bad boy, now go to my room.

Hey Hal, lighten up! There must be plenty of gay trade who will oblige after a few beers.

Piz... Go fuck yourself

tried to many times..........just caint seem to get around to it tho...

I bet you have your finger up your ass right now.

Not possible. Thalidomide victim. I am typing this with my feet.

oh yeah, thalidomide. that drug we wouldn't allow the use of in america because it wasn't proven safe but which the british fed to their pregnant women like it was candy and caused them to have horribly crippled babies. that thalidomide. you're 40?

Hal, how was the xmas party?

Dull... I was half comotosed when they mentioned it at the Tuesday meeting and didn't catch that it was formal... I wasn't the only one there were a few people there who showed up dressed like they had just left work like me... The food was good, the drinks were watered down... And other then that it was pretty fucking lame. Good food though, free food.

ironically, i read an article in the LAtimes that reports many companies are scaling back their holiday parties, my company included. we were to have it at some gay discoteq/resturaunt/bar in West Hollywood but that got cancelled, in order to have a low-key get together here at the office. To my and some of my coworkers relief as we are usually quite awkward at these kind of functions. Although the last two years, after we grubbed and got tipsy...myself and a few of the hipster lesbians all headed to the seedy strip joint, a more comfortable environment for many of us. what is even better about this years arrangement is the simple fact that I will be about 3000 miles away in North Carolina at the time so I get to avoid the event all together.

I will miss my first office xmas party to atten my brother's college graduation. He rented a bar.

easy choice

it should be crazy.

Still crazee after all these beers?

"...myself and a few of the hipster lesbians all headed to the seedy strip joint, a more comfortable environment for many of us." Oh Patrick,sometimes you worry me.

what are you talking about? who wouldn't be comfortable going to a seedy strip joint with a handful of hipster lesbians. they'll drink you under the table and ultimately get better opportunities to put their faces between stripper tits. relish czarina relish

Sounds like a party to me. Some of us are going to a local famous "adult" superstore called the Lion's Den. I told our departing crew chief that his going away present was going to be big and black. Like a set of tires.

I just thought it was cute,thats all. You use it like it was the everday norm.

Back in the day weren't we the only girls at the gaybars? I won a hotpants contest at one.We just got married had spawn and have no time for that now.

I still think that Patty can slut me under the table.

I'm getting all wet just thinking about it.

Gosh. Everyone is so provocative. I

John... Are you gay?

Not that it matters.

SEM - PAY ATTENTION! Did you ask her out to lunch yet? If things click/exchange numbers & email addys & keep in touch. Some Sorabjites have a long tradition of interesting long-distance realtionships. If you 2 really hit it off/things cd blossom in time. If you've just got a serious case of the mutual hots -- well/get yr groove on! But I guarantee you won't see her again after this trip if you 2 screw now. (Carry some condoms/JIC). Still -- you're way over due. A night of sheet-searing sex in a seedy motel wd do you good. Fuck what The Boss says - unless she's his daughter. Either way/Don't Zeek On This One. I say Go Forth & Fornicate!

P.S. Y'know Sem/going to bed w/someone who works for you doesn't make you evil or a bad person. It's a short-term gig for both of you/so there don't have to be any long-range repercussions. (Providing you use condoms.) She already has the job & she's not in line for a promotion or a raise from you/so there aren't any sexual harrasment issues. Most people end up hooking up w/people they work w/in some context or other/becuz that's the way the world functions. Who are you supposed to hook up with -- working girls on the stroll? The video store checkout girl? The waitress who serves yr coffee in the morning? The chick you hands you yr dry cleaning? The people you meet that you get to spend time with/see in action/talk to enuf to decide you like them/tend to be people you work w/in most cases. So hooking up w/them is the natural progression of things. And despite yr middle-class-good-guy-nectar-podling impulses (which we all adore) sometimes (but only sometimes) 2 people who really are meant to be together start off the realtionship w/sex/then move on to deeper things. Esp. when they meet far from home in a temporary setting. All I'm saying is/Don't Rule Anything Out. She might be a lot more daring -- & willing -- than you even suspected. Anyway/I must go to bed now. Do Something/before it's too late. Amd Keep Us Posted!

She isn't interested. There you go. On the harassment note, the danger is actually from a third party discrimination suit as she is going to do another job for us in Alabama in the near future, one which I won't be involved in. My boss is super worried about someone claiming that we trade jobs for sexual favors and suing the hell out of us.

And if you know the name of Sem's company, the boss' concern is really quite funny.

I'll bite -- what's the name? But wait -- whaddyamean she's not interested? I thought she was tossing you all these sly smiles & putting out a general come-hither vibe? What happened, Sem?

ok, years have now gone by, and are you keeping people informed?

he's getting married soon. awww

Note: not to the woman described above, but to a much finer, nicer, more beautiful, intelligent, and damn sexier lady. question: "Llamalover" - what does that mean?

we prefer to call him a llama _fucker_.