i don't even know

sorabji.com: How do you do?: i don't even know

By wisper on Wednesday, June 20, 2001 - 01:21 pm:

    what do you do when something that someone you love is involved in makes you....sad or upset or jealous or worried but there's nothing you can do. And you tell them how you feel, and they understand (or try to) but they can't change it. It's not a big enough deal to change, in fact, it's actually so nothing that it all seems very insane. And you seem almost insane for feeling the way you do but you can't help it, and neither can the one you love.
    So you think or know that you'll probably get over it in time, you just have to think logically about it and of course you've had far larger things to overcome in life than this pathetic situation, but you can't concentrate at work because your job is just so dull that it leaves too much time for this painful thinking. And none of it really makes sense. Love and trust are being overthrown for some reason by .....something. And you feel like you're going insane. And you're miserable. And you know it's probly just that you need to get out and do more things, keep busy and stop fucking dwelling.
    But it takes so long.
    So you talk to people and ask for advice but still nothing helps. You know you're just dwelling and being obbsessive. It will pass. It must pass, your heart demands it. Just being obbsessive, but so needlesly and insanely obbsessive that you think you might even need therapy, therapy for a fucking nothing problem that only really exists in your miserable head.
    i feel insane.

By Nate on Wednesday, June 20, 2001 - 01:42 pm:

    you are insane. and it's ok.

    i find myself at times in places where i have logical knowledge (i know i trust a person, or i know i trust the Will,) and yet my emotional being still boils and writhes. this makes sense on some level: if the emotional being was rational we'd have no contrast by which to call the logical being logical.

    for me, i've learned, that by focusing on the fact that my emotional being isn't trusting i'm missing the point. the problem isn't in a lack of trust for the person that you're agonizing over. that trust is there, because your logical mind recognizes it. the problem is that you are not trusting yourself, from which the trust for the other comes.

    it is something that you practice, in a way. sometimes you start practicing from ground zero when a new situation arises. but it works, if you keep reminding yourself that you are this person who your logical mind sees you as. this trusting person.

    i've also found that having an event can be helpful. something. a personal ceremony that you anticipate, place value in, and then execute. so that when completed, you've come out the other side as you want to be.

    i use the shower for this frequently. cleaning with attention, releasing the issues that are clouding me and allowing them to be washed away.

    take care.

By Spider on Wednesday, June 20, 2001 - 01:52 pm:

    Do you ever feel like telling someone you have some kind of horrible disease because you really would like some generic sympathy right about now, for undisclosed reasons? You really want someone to make some gesture of concern in your general direction, and you would lie to get it?

    Do you ever feel like you're not all of you unto yourself? Like you're 4 different people, none of whom know each other?

    Do you ever say things that you don't want to say? You don't possess the motivation or will to say them, and yet there they come out of your mouth?

    Do your legs ever ache feverishly at random moments?

By patrick on Wednesday, June 20, 2001 - 02:13 pm:

    I feel negelected intellectually.

    I was never challenged or pushed.

    I always got by with minimal amounts of attention paid to school....a damn fine B student, and this was acceptable.

    I feel neglected because i was never challenged with philisophical issues. My personal values have never been defined. Ask me and I have to think a minute, and even then i probably would change my mind.

    I saw a girl/woman on the subway i wanted to talk to about doing some modeling but I wussed out.

    I've said many things i wish I had never said.

By heather on Wednesday, June 20, 2001 - 02:22 pm:

    the only person that can push you intellectually or philosophically is you

    i am always thinking about my personal values. i would also have to think about any answer and i often change my mind. there is nothing wrong with that.

    stop neglecting yourself

By Spider on Wednesday, June 20, 2001 - 02:30 pm:

    Patrick, on NPR's "Public Interest" this afternoon, the guest was a man who has organized "Socrate's Cafes" all around the country. These are coffeehouse/library/etc. meetings in which people from the community talk about philosophical issues with each other. Like "who owns human life?", "what is wisdom?" etc.

    http://www.philosopher.org is the man's website.

    You could set up something like that in your neighborhood...it's not hard, and there will probably be a lot of interest.

    If you go here and scroll down to Wednesday, you can hear a transcript of the radio show. A lot of neat things were discussed...not philosophic topics, but the fact that people today need to think about these sort of things and how empty they feel when they don't.

By Spider on Wednesday, June 20, 2001 - 02:35 pm:

    Here is a list of people to contact for the Socrate's cafe near you.

    There's one in LA. And Takoma Park, wouldn't you know.

By Spider on Wednesday, June 20, 2001 - 02:36 pm:

    And, hey, the facilitator for the Takoma Park location is Chris Phillips, the guy who started them all and who was interviewed today. Cool!

By patrick on Wednesday, June 20, 2001 - 02:40 pm:

    i like the idea.

    i took Paida (spell) in high school which i enjoyed a lot.

    did they offer that where you went?

    if you havent heard of it...its an english/history class where curiculum is intertwined and the class is structured after the Socratic teaching method. having such a big mouth, i did well.

    One of the projects I did was enlightening the kids to punk rock music. I literally brought in a hand ful of records....and played political and social interest songs...demonstraing to the dopes that punk rock had meaning and soul behind it. Silly in hindsight but i got an A. But AGAIN, not much work to do on my part.

    Heather i was actually referring to my upbringing. I was lazily brought up and its hard to move over in my adulthood.

By heather on Wednesday, June 20, 2001 - 02:50 pm:

    i knew what you were referring to

By heather on Wednesday, June 20, 2001 - 02:51 pm:

    i mean, that's what i assumed you were referring to

By patrick on Wednesday, June 20, 2001 - 02:59 pm:

    so how can say, an 8 year old be responsible for being pushed and developed philisophically. I think its the parents responsibility to aid in this development, and thats where i was negelected I think.

By Cat on Wednesday, June 20, 2001 - 07:22 pm:

    A lack of formal direction leads to the best philosophies.

    That's my philosophy anyway.

By wisper on Thursday, June 21, 2001 - 03:01 am:

    thank you guys
    so much.
    it's a better day today:

    I watch christian televison more than a blue-haired old lady. Yes, for fun. But tonight it actually gave me something.

    Make no mistake here, i don't believe in any god(s). I'm sure if i did life would be much easier at times. Like now. But anyway, tonight it reminded me of hope. Not the bullshit hope and strenght that Pat Robertson's mental eldest son and heir had when he put his hands to the screen and made teary-eyed attempts to convince me that my various ailments would be cured on his Hour Of Healing....but the hope that only humans have, the strength that comes from inside. The many people that called in to say that their tumours had melted or they can walk again or they can see for the first time in thirty years, and all the things that i tend to believe they just did by themselves, because they believed it would happen, without the evil Robertsons help. Without blaming god for something they very well did with their own will. It's obvious to me anyway. We can all do that, i think.

    So fuck, if some redneck can get off a respirator just by watching this crap and building the will to do so, surely i can get up out of this terrible funk of obbsessive insanity if i want. I just need to try. It's not so specific as a tumour though.

    I put my hands on the tv screen. It was cold.

By Cat on Thursday, June 21, 2001 - 03:51 am:

    Antigone said something to me once that made all my bells ring at once. He said "it's the guilt that traps you", except he made it sound much deeper.

    I always beat myself around so much over how I should be or the mistakes I make. Even when someone does something that upsets me, I'm always thinking it's really my fault because I should be more this or that. The guilt is incredibly crippling and it takes up the energy I could be spending on more useful stuff.

    I'm reading a lot of guilt in your posts on this thread, Wisper. Stop thinking you're a bad person and there's something wrong with you, just because you're not coping well with this situation.

    You have to quit punishing* yourself and calling yourself insane and obsessive. You got a problem. That's all. You'll find a way out of it if you relax, instead of being blinded by guilt.

By wisper on Thursday, June 21, 2001 - 04:35 am:

    the computer screen however, is quite warm :)

By semillama on Thursday, June 21, 2001 - 08:47 am:

    Do you feel it? DO you feel the LOVE?

    It's just gas.

By patrick on Thursday, June 21, 2001 - 11:19 am:

    you have guilt

    i have regret.

    and potential drinking issues


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